Argonauts Officially Eliminated

[Neely2005]

With Hamilton having the tie breaker and Edmonton & BC having a game remaining against each other we're eliminated.

From Grey Cup Champions last season to missing the playoffs this season.

Lots of blame to go around and some reasons:

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/10/04/nye-state-argonauts-2018-season/

[ArgoGabe22]

Still renewing my seats for next season!

[Argo57]

Still renewing my seats for next season!

For sure, can’t bail on your team when the going gets a little tough.

[Argo]

With Hamilton having the tie breaker and Edmonton & BC having a game remaining against each other we're eliminated.

From Grey Cup Champions last season to missing the playoffs this season.

Lots of blame to go around and some reasons:

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/10/04/nye-state-argonauts-2018-season/

The ship has run aground with alacrity. Good. Next season starts now. But, please, not the same old same old. I'd like to see the organization get more than $6,000 in value from its $600,000 investment.

[Mightygoose]

Coincidentaly TFC got mathematically eliminated yesterday too. Also in a loss to a Vancouver based team.

The grass will be well rested at BMO this fall.

[Joe Barnes]

Still renewing my seats for next season!

Me too! And looking forward to seeing the Ticat game this Friday...

[Joe Barnes]

Coincidentaly TFC got mathematically eliminated yesterday too. Also in a loss to a Vancouver based team.

The grass will be well rested at BMO this fall.

I had the same thought...lets hope it recovers because it's been a horrible field this season for both teams. Of course TFC will be using it again come February, so all bets are off!

[RB957]

Still renewing my seats for next season!


Me too! And looking forward to seeing the Ticat game this Friday...

Absolutely. Will never abandon the Argos. It's something like my marriage. I am in for the long haul!

[Neely2005]

For sure, can’t bail on your team when the going gets a little tough.

Will renew too but things are more than a little tough. This organization needs to make winning seasons (a winning record) a regular occurrence. The last time we had back to back winning seasons was 2006 & 2007!


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toronto_Argonauts_seasons

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Me too! And looking forward to seeing the Ticat game this Friday...

Time to play spoiler. Missing the playoffs after a Grey Cup win is a bitter pill to swallow but being swept by Hamilton? No effing way.

[Argo57]

Will renew too but things are more than a little tough. This organization needs to make winning seasons (a winning record) a regular occurrence. The last time we had back to back winning seasons was 2006 & 2007!


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toronto_Argonauts_seasons

I’m trying to be positive Neely, a major retool is in order but there are still some good pieces in place to build around.

[AngeloV]

Still renewing my seats for next season!


Me too! And looking forward to seeing the Ticat game this Friday...


Absolutely. Will never abandon the Argos. It's something like my marriage. I am in for the long haul!

I'm with you. I love going to games no matter what the scenario is.

[lazycro]

It's like Trestman wanted us to be eliminated and then put Franklin in after he thought the game was out of reach

[Argo]

It's like Trestman wanted us to be eliminated and then put Franklin in after he thought the game was out of reach

He sounded disingenuous - because, I assume, he didn't believe it himself - in his pre-game interview when saying "We're both fighting for a playoff spot".

[jerrym]

I'm not saying we would have made the playoffs; however, if Trestman had allowed Franklin to become the starter several games ago after it became clear that BMT could not throw long passes with any accuracy, we might still be in the hunt. I also agree that major personnel changes need to occur to be competitive next year.

[RB957]

I'm not saying we would have made the playoffs; however, if Trestman had allowed Franklin to become the starter several games ago after it became clear that BMT could not throw long passes with any accuracy, we might still be in the hunt. I also agree that major personnel changes need to occur to be competitive next year.

I suppose you could argue this either way.... but where would we have been had Franklin been allowed to stay in as QB as opposed to having been pulled. Let's face it, had Pfeffer not missed a field goal, we could have won the game in Edmonton. I understand that after losing three games in a row that early in the season, a QB change is expected. I am not saying MBT cost us any games himself, however once it started to show that teams were figuring him out, and he was treading water, if not regressing, then the change back to Franklin should have taken place sooner. It's all moot now, but if he is the QB of our future, Franklin would have gained immeasurable experience playing through difficulties and adversity.

[AngeloV]

Admittedly, I defended the decision to stay with MBT as the O scored more points with him at the helm. In hindsight, Popp mad a big move to bring in Franklin. Not giving him the opportunity to work his way out of a tough couple of games was dead wrong. I still believe it shows a disconnect between the HC and the GM, A’s does the decision not to get Carter involved early and often. I stand by my prediction that Trestman will not be back next year.

[lazycro]

A note of probably non significance, I believe that last year Marc's wife was up here during the season while this season she has not been. Just an anecdote I thought was interesting

[jerrym]

Admittedly, I defended the decision to stay with MBT as the O scored more points with him at the helm. In hindsight, Popp mad a big move to bring in Franklin. Not giving him the opportunity to work his way out of a tough couple of games was dead wrong. I still believe it shows a disconnect between the HC and the GM, A’s does the decision not to get Carter involved early and often. I stand by my prediction that Trestman will not be back next year.

I agree with most of what you say except on Trestman leaving. I could see that going either way - gone because of his performance this year or staying because of his and Popp's long-term successful relationship in the past. I think overall his third year at $600,000, the most expensive HC CFL contract, will more likely result in his being here in 2019.

[Argo]

Admittedly, I defended the decision to stay with MBT as the O scored more points with him at the helm. In hindsight, Popp mad a big move to bring in Franklin. Not giving him the opportunity to work his way out of a tough couple of games was dead wrong. I still believe it shows a disconnect between the HC and the GM, A’s does the decision not to get Carter involved early and often. I stand by my prediction that Trestman will not be back next year.

I have to agree with your observations and conclusions. Addition by subtraction would see Trestman move on or be moved out.

[argotom]

A horrible year, but I will be back for another with my season tickets.
The bottom line, for the most important positon on the filed we need a much better and first string performance from whom ever is the QB next season.

[ArgoFan1]

Not that horrible a season. All the home games were entertaining and close. That is all I ask for. The team would be right in the thick of the hunt for a home playoff game if not for about four missed field goals. That is how close they were this year to being contenders. I know that the defensive line was the biggest problem all year. Saw that before Friday that they had sacked opposing quarterbacks 50 times last year, but so far only 13 times this year. It was painfully obvious that they rarely got any kind of pressure on quarterbacks, which makes it tough for the DBs. Wouldn't matter if they were winless... I'll be back. Love watching the Argos and CFL football. So much that after their final home game, I am going to see them play in Montreal. Then, it is the long wait until the next game.

[ArgoRavi]

A note of probably non significance, I believe that last year Marc's wife was up here during the season while this season she has not been. Just an anecdote I thought was interesting

Trestman has taken at least three or four personal days this year, from what I recall, so there may be some significance to this. I, for one, hope that Trestman returns as head coach in 2019 and am assuming he will, given that he is under contract for another season at a steep price.

[ArgoRavi]

I suppose you could argue this either way.... but where would we have been had Franklin been allowed to stay in as QB as opposed to having been pulled. Let's face it, had Pfeffer not missed a field goal, we could have won the game in Edmonton. I understand that after losing three games in a row that early in the season, a QB change is expected. I am not saying MBT cost us any games himself, however once it started to show that teams were figuring him out, and he was treading water, if not regressing, then the change back to Franklin should have taken place sooner. It's all moot now, but if he is the QB of our future, Franklin would have gained immeasurable experience playing through difficulties and adversity.

I get what you are saying but, to play devil's advocate, with MBT as starter, Medeiros missed a game-tying FG in Montreal and a game-winner against Saskatchewan. I truly believe that the past six games would have unfolded very differently if the Argos had not lost that game in Montreal. That killed any momentum that they had built up with wins in the previous two games.

[Rich]

I suppose you could argue this either way.... but where would we have been had Franklin been allowed to stay in as QB as opposed to having been pulled. Let's face it, had Pfeffer not missed a field goal, we could have won the game in Edmonton. I understand that after losing three games in a row that early in the season, a QB change is expected. I am not saying MBT cost us any games himself, however once it started to show that teams were figuring him out, and he was treading water, if not regressing, then the change back to Franklin should have taken place sooner. It's all moot now, but if he is the QB of our future, Franklin would have gained immeasurable experience playing through difficulties and adversity.

If Franklin develops into a top CFL QB -- and I think he will, and i think it will be with the Argonauts -- then history will view Trestman's MBT experiment as being one of the worst personnel blunders since Wally started Dickenson instead of Printers in the 2004 Cup. We'll never know for sure if it cost us the season (I think it did, but that's just me), but as you say we do know for sure that it unnecessarily slowed Franklin's CFL development.

But i'm not ready to deep-six The Professor quite yet. A lot of things out of his control went wrong this year, and he also made a lot of mistakes, including his bizarre decision not to play any starters in the pre-season. But I still admire the guy, and if he can commit to building an offence around James Franklin then I'm all in. We'll finally know for sure whether Trestman likes working with mobile QBs or not.

[AngeloV]

I get what you are saying but, to play devil's advocate, with MBT as starter, Medeiros missed a game-tying FG in Montreal and a game-winner against Saskatchewan. I truly believe that the past six games would have unfolded very differently if the Argos had not lost that game in Montreal. That killed any momentum that they had built up with wins in the previous two games.

The missed FG in Montreal was not on Medeiros. It was the beyond stupid play call of throwing a screen pass on the previous play which turned the attempt from a 46 yarder into a 54 yarder. You should never EXPECT your kicker to make a 54 yard FG. You hope for the best, but that is not one you should be counting on.

[AngeloV]

We'll finally know for sure whether Trestman likes working with mobile QBs or not.

I honestly don't think it's mobile QB's he has a problem with. I think he has a problem with young QB's.

[ArgoRavi]

If Franklin develops into a top CFL QB -- and I think he will, and i think it will be with the Argonauts -- then history will view Trestman's MBT experiment as being one of the worst personnel blunders since Wally started Dickenson instead of Printers in the 2004 Cup. We'll never know for sure if it cost us the season (I think it did, but that's just me), but as you say we do know for sure that it unnecessarily slowed Franklin's CFL development.

But i'm not ready to deep-six The Professor quite yet. A lot of things out of his control went wrong this year, and he also made a lot of mistakes, including his bizarre decision not to play any starters in the pre-season. But I still admire the guy, and if he can commit to building an offence around James Franklin then I'm all in. We'll finally know for sure whether Trestman likes working with mobile QBs or not.

I will play devil's advocate again - what if Franklin needed to sit and observe all of these weeks to become a better QB? If Trestman had just stuck with him when he was 1-3 and committing a lot of turnovers, would he eventually have lost his confidence like Jonathan Jennings? Maybe handling Franklin with care will end up being the best thing that Trestman could have done for Franklin and the Argos franchise over the long run.

[Rich]

I will play devil's advocate again - what if Franklin needed to sit and observe all of these weeks to become a better QB? If Trestman had just stuck with him when he was 1-3 and committing a lot of turnovers, would he eventually have lost his confidence like Jonathan Jennings? Maybe handling Franklin with care will end up being the best thing that Trestman could have done for Franklin and the Argos franchise over the long run.

Ravi, this is entirely possible, but I would really question whether a young "QB of the future" struggling with confidence would have much more to gain by sitting out eight weeks as opposed to one or two. In my view Franklin did all the sitting and observing he needed to do when he was in Edmonton. More than anything he needed playing time but the coach unfortunately saw it differently.

[R.J]

I should be back next season, but I'm not so sure about my cousin (the other seat on my account). Admittedly, I'm watching a lot less football as a whole as of late; as I've had a lot of issues with the game the last few years. Argo games are the only sporting events I've ever left early, and it's happened quite a few times over the last few years, so for me that's concerning. In saying that, I don't think I could ever completely stop going to games or watching the Argos - I love 'em, even if it turns into a love/hate thing at times.

Falling asleep in stadium doesn't help my situation either lol. If anything, I may just end up dropping my Ticat seasons.

[jerrym]

I will play devil's advocate again - what if Franklin needed to sit and observe all of these weeks to become a better QB? If Trestman had just stuck with him when he was 1-3 and committing a lot of turnovers, would he eventually have lost his confidence like Jonathan Jennings? Maybe handling Franklin with care will end up being the best thing that Trestman could have done for Franklin and the Argos franchise over the long run.

IMO Trestman loves dropback accurate passers, such as Ray and Calvillo, who are stoic in the face of adversity, like himself. He hasn't shown much ability to deal with players outside that mould, including Carter. He also hasn't shown much ability to deal with the ups and downs usually associated with young QBs and typically avoided using them in Montreal even when the game was a total blowout. Given the right personnel he can succeed. However, the great coaches, like John Wooden in UCLA basketball won with players and teams that varied greatly in their physical and mental skills, build their teams around the players they have, not the players they want.