GDT: Putty Tats @ Argonauts Friday October 12 2018

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And the full depth ⤵️ <a href="https://t.co/PXLsvnnMy2">pic.twitter.com/PXLsvnnMy2</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1050402171164930048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Let's get 'er done!

[R.J]

Putty Tats depth chart

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">📋: Here’s how we’ll lineup tomorrow night 🆚 the ❌rgos. <br><br> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HamiltonProud?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#HamiltonProud</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MahindraOntario?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MahindraOntario</a> <a href="https://t.co/yX6G9yrHId">pic.twitter.com/yX6G9yrHId</a></p>&mdash; Hamilton Tiger-Cats (@Ticats) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats/status/1050407477391560705?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[Treblecharger1]

I guess Dexter got hurt again last week.

[paulwoods13]

No backup RB. I guess we might see Cross at RB if something were to happen to Burks. Also we will get to see Brown kicking.

[Argo57]

I guess Dexter got hurt again last week.

He pulled up lame during one of his runs last game, recurring leg issues doesn’t bode well.

[gilthethrill]

Looks like young Isaiah Cage ( great name for an 80's band) draws in at LT...is Wil Campbell hurt or are they just in evaluation mode? Malcolm Wiliams, who has not produced appears to be sitting. Hope Green and Edwards are able to reach 1,000 each and Franklin leads the league in rushing TD's at seasons end.

[jerrym]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And the full depth ⤵️ <a href="https://t.co/PXLsvnnMy2">pic.twitter.com/PXLsvnnMy2</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1050402171164930048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[jerrym]

Notice the X in Xrgos of the Tiger Cats game roster. Let's X them.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">📋: Here’s how we’ll lineup tomorrow night 🆚 the ❌rgos. <br><br> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HamiltonProud?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#HamiltonProud</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MahindraOntario?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MahindraOntario</a> <a href="https://t.co/yX6G9yrHId">pic.twitter.com/yX6G9yrHId</a></p>&mdash; Hamilton Tiger-Cats (@Ticats) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats/status/1050407477391560705?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[AngeloV]

He pulled up lame during one of his runs last game, recurring leg issues doesn’t bode well.

Unfortunately that happens when you've been out of football and jump back in without the benefit of a training camp. The initial hamstring injury is a classic example in such cases. Hamstring and groin pulls.

[Antwon]

I heard Jim Barker on TSN 1150. When asked what has caused the Argo fall this year. His first reason went something like this. “The Argos training facility takes its toll on the team, Lamport field doesn’t have yard lines etc. Hamilton has great facilities and that contributes to the team’s success”
Jim must be losing his memory. Hamilton started 0-8 last year with great facilities, and the Argos won the GC with worse facilities. No wonder he’s on TV now!!!!!

[R.J]

Is there any reason as to why the depth charts needed to be posted twice ?

[AngeloV]

Is there any reason as to why the depth charts needed to be posted twice ?

Twice as nice, baby.

[AngeloV]

Time for an anti Ti-Cats take....This makes me feel a little better.

Reading how Steve Milton in the Hamilton Spectator is referring to this game as some sort of a trap game. Let's be honest, Hamilton really hasn't been good enough for any game to be considered a trap game. A closer look at their 7 wins this season:

2 vs Argos...I don't need to go further
2 vs Edmonton...not a good team at all IMO. Argos beat them once and were a bad kicking game away from beating them again.
Home vs BC...BC has only one 1 road game all season--in Montreal
at Montreal...Johnny Manziel's first start and one he really was not even close to being ready for it.
Home vs Winnipeg...Rookie Chris Streveler starting QB.

Add in that they lost back to back to Saskatchewan who at the time had absolutely no QBing.

Honestly, there is nothing impressive about their victories at all, and I am going to say the hype they get is not deserved. The beauty about this season is that come 10pm on Nov 25, they will add to their non championship run this century, and they and the Argos will have the same record going into the 2019 season.

[lazycro]

Argos apparently getting a boost in home attendance from Ryerson homecoming..... if so expect them not to know to be quiet when our offence is on the field :ohno:

[lazycro]

Is there any reason as to why the depth charts needed to be posted twice ?

Is three times better?

[AngeloV]

Argos apparently getting a boost in home attendance from Ryerson homecoming..... if so expect them not to know to be quiet when our offence is on the field :ohno:

That's ok with me. If they all have a good time, it may result in positivity for the future.

[lazycro]

That's ok with me. If they all have a good time, it may result in positivity for the future.

Last time they were doing the TFC "Clap" however..... doesn't quite work as well with Handegg as it does with European Footballs

[AngeloV]

Last time they were doing the TFC "Clap" however..... doesn't quite work as well with Handegg as it does with European Footballs

hahaha. Point taken. We will have to educate.

[DoubleBlue_Red]

Time for an anti Ti-Cats take....This makes me feel a little better.

Reading how Steve Milton in the Hamilton Spectator is referring to this game as some sort of a trap game. Let's be honest, Hamilton really hasn't been good enough for any game to be considered a trap game. A closer look at their 7 wins this season:

2 vs Argos...I don't need to go further
2 vs Edmonton...not a good team at all IMO. Argos beat them once and were a bad kicking game away from beating them again.
Home vs BC...BC has only one 1 road game all season--in Montreal
at Montreal...Johnny Manziel's first start and one he really was not even close to being ready for it.
Home vs Winnipeg...Rookie Chris Streveler starting QB.

Add in that they lost back to back to Saskatchewan who at the time had absolutely no QBing.

Honestly, there is nothing impressive about their victories at all, and I am going to say the hype they get is not deserved. The beauty about this season is that come 10pm on Nov 25, they will add to their non championship run this century, and they and the Argos will have the same record going into the 2019 season.

Masoli is second in the league in passing. They have weapons like Speedy B. The Cats are at least as good as Ottawa which means they can get to a Grey Cup and as we saw last year a team can win on a fluke lol.

[AngeloV]

Masoli is second in the league in passing. They have weapons like Speedy B. The Cats are at least as good as Ottawa which means they can get to a Grey Cup and as we saw last year a team can win on a fluke lol.

They have yet to beat a good, healthy team this year, and lost at home to that same Ottawa team you claim they are at least as good as. That's a fact.

[Antwon]

They have yet to beat a good, healthy team this year, and lost at home to that same Ottawa team you claim they are at least as good as. That's a fact.

To me they look like they're doing what we did last year. Coming together for the stretch run. Tonight's game and the 2 with Ottawa will be big.
We didn't beat a lot of top teams last year, but turned it on down the stretch and won close games.
I just wish we were still in the hunt to make tonight more meaningful.

[AngeloV]

To me they look like they're doing what we did last year. Coming together for the stretch run. Tonight's game and the 2 with Ottawa will be big.
We didn't beat a lot of top teams last year, but turned it on down the stretch and won close games.
I just wish we were still in the hunt to make tonight more meaningful.

Actually, we beat every team in the regular season except for Calgary last year. I don't think they are turning anything on right now. They've lost 2 of their last 3, so there is no evidence of that.

[Argo]

3 - 12

[argolio]

3 - 12Your contributions are 0-15.

[jerrym]

What a difference having a QB who can throw accurate passes to receivers downfield.

[jerrym]

Too many men penalty wipes out nice Franklin to Green reception.

[jerrym]

Three sacks by the second lowest team in sacks in a half. Another sign, if any is needed, that the Argos need to improve the offensive line in the off-season.

[gilthethrill]

By no means am I a fan of these gimmicky live mic games....but good on Trestman for keeping his composure on that crap PI call on that cry baby prima donna Banks. Makes he nauseous to hear Masoli being named as possible East MOP...I don't want to lose to these clowns.

[jerrym]

Franklin showed he has a good arm and can run tonight, but we knew that before. What he needs is more experience, which he could have been earlier, once it was clear BMT is not likely to ever develop into an accurate deep passer at age 30.

[Argo]

Your contributions are 0-15.

Thanks for the gratuitous juvenile insult. Feeling better now ?

[R.J]

Franklin played okay in the first half, but boy was he bad in the 3rd quarter; 4th quarter garbage time means little to me. Our offense has a lot of issues, but our D is a whole lot of embarrassment. Masoli was finding huge soft spots all night. Archer needs to be shown the door, and whomever the GM in the off season is needs to find players that have a clue and can tackle.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Another night of crying myself to sleep.

[Argo57]

Franklin played okay in the first half, but boy was he bad in the 3rd quarter; 4th quarter garbage time means little to me. Our offense has a lot of issues, but our D is a whole lot of embarrassment. Masoli was finding huge soft spots all night. Archer needs to be shown the door, and whomever the GM in the off season is needs to find players that have a clue and can tackle.

Argos have been reading the same script all season.

[Argo57]

Franklin played okay in the first half, but boy was he bad in the 3rd quarter; 4th quarter garbage time means little to me. Our offense has a lot of issues, but our D is a whole lot of embarrassment. Masoli was finding huge soft spots all night. Archer needs to be shown the door, and whomever the GM in the off season is needs to find players that have a clue and can tackle.

Franklin continues to show a lot of upside IMO, he started out very strong and faded as the game continued.
I think patience in letting him play through some rough spots will pay off long term for the Argos.

[Shatto]

Some rambling thoughts------Basically Hamilton is better than the Argos almost man to man. Masoli used his mobility to provide the time for his receivers to get in the clear. Yell had trouble covering his receiver all night. Franklin had a so-so game. One time he tried to force a pass to Green and Carter was streaking down the field behind coverage. Carter was waving for the ball but Franklin had locked into Green.

On two occasions, the coaches were late sending an offensive player in. Once it resulted in the QB calling a time out and another a too many men penalty. One could also question the offensive play calling. Too many times when 10 yards were needed for a first down, the pass was for 5 yards.


To be competitive, the team needs upgrades at DE's, at DB's, at OL and with some of the coaching areas

[Stevoman]

Some positive moments but this game went like too many in 2018...I gotta say though, SJ Green is a fantastic receiver!

[RB957]

That was awful.... how can opposing receivers be so open so often? No pass rush.... no pass protection.... just brutal.

Duron Carter? In my opinion... cut him now. One of the only times I saw him run with any effort was when the final whistle went and he sprinted off the field... first one in the showers... he should be the first one shown the door.

I feel bad for Franklin... this will not go down as a good gauge of his ability, but not much support. One bright spot was SJ Green. What a pro.

I was looking forward to seeing the final home game against Montreal just to see Johnny Manziel, but I am now glad I have to miss it because of other commitments.... don't think I could sit through another stinker like tonight.

[Argo57]

That was awful.... how can opposing receivers be so open so often? No pass rush.... no pass protection.... just brutal.

Duron Carter? In my opinion... cut him now. One of the only times I saw him run with any effort was when the final whistle went and he sprinted off the field... first one in the showers... he should be the first one shown the door.

I feel bad for Franklin... this will not go down as a good gauge of his ability, but not much support. One bright spot was SJ Green. What a pro.

I was looking forward to seeing the final home game against Montreal just to see Johnny Manziel, but I am now glad I have to miss it because of other commitments.... don't think I could sit through another stinker like tonight.

SJ Green is a true pro who always gives his all no matter what the circumstances are.

[Argo57]

Franklin showed he has a good arm and can run tonight, but we knew that before. What he needs is more experience, which he could have been earlier, once it was clear BMT is not likely to ever develop into an accurate deep passer at age 30.

Some more receiving talent would help his development as well.

[paulwoods13]

Some rambling thoughts------Basically Hamilton is better than the Argos almost man to man. Masoli used his mobility to provide the time for his receivers to get in the clear. Yell had trouble covering his receiver all night. Franklin had a so-so game. One time he tried to force a pass to Green and Carter was streaking down the field behind coverage. Carter was waving for the ball but Franklin had locked into Green.

On two occasions, the coaches were late sending an offensive player in. Once it resulted in the QB calling a time out and another a too many men penalty. One could also question the offensive play calling. Too many times when 10 yards were needed for a first down, the pass was for 5 yards.


To be competitive, the team needs upgrades at DE's, at DB's, at OL and with some of the coaching areas

I agree with pretty well all of this. I also saw Burks wide open up the left sideline once, on a play where JF seemed to lock in immediately on the short middle route. He rotated between deciding too quickly on the target, and not deciding quickly enough -- most of the sacks we allowed were on the QB, IMO. That said, I still believe JF has potential to develop into an excellent QB but he will need to be coached well, and it's debatable how much coaching any of the players are getting this season. (Himebauch does seems to coach the crap out of the o-linemen on the sidelines during games, tho.)

Everyone's favourite punching bag Arash Madani tweeted last night that either Popp or Trestman won't be back and there is a lot of friction between Argo management (presumably one or both of those guys) and MLSE (presumably Manning). If it comes down to a power struggle, clearly Manning will win. I suspect a rift has developed between coach and GM -- it's the only logical explanation for the whole Carter situation. It's too bad the Argos have fallen so far in the local sporting pantheon that there are no serious reporters working the beat who could delve into this. The only good reporters around the team regularly (Naylor and Ralph) have league-wide coverage responsibilities and can't spend all of their time covering the inner workings of the Argos.

[R.J]

Franklin continues to show a lot of upside IMO, he started out very strong and faded as the game continued.
I think patience in letting him play through some rough spots will pay off long term for the Argos.
Too early to give up on Franklin as he needs reps, but eventually he's got to take advantage of his opportunities.

I agree with pretty well all of this. I also saw Burks wide open up the left sideline once, on a play where JF seemed to lock in immediately on the short middle route. He rotated between deciding too quickly on the target, and not deciding quickly enough -- most of the sacks we allowed were on the QB, IMO. That said, I still believe JF has potential to develop into an excellent QB but he will need to be coached well, and it's debatable how much coaching any of the players are getting this season. (Himebauch does seems to coach the crap out of the o-linemen on the sidelines during games, tho.)

Everyone's favourite punching bag Arash Madani tweeted last night that either Popp or Trestman won't be back and there is a lot of friction between Argo management (presumably one or both of those guys) and MLSE (presumably Manning). If it comes down to a power struggle, clearly Manning will win. I suspect a rift has developed between coach and GM -- it's the only logical explanation for the whole Carter situation. It's too bad the Argos have fallen so far in the local sporting pantheon that there are no serious reporters working the beat who could delve into this. The only good reporters around the team regularly (Naylor and Ralph) have league-wide coverage responsibilities and can't spend all of their time covering the inner workings of the Argos.
I suspect the friction between MLSE and Popp/Trestman has to do with the losing, and Popp/Trestman won't win that fight. Maybe this ends up being 2016 redux and Manning decides to keep Trestman over Popp - I hope knot tbh, as I'd rather see Trestman given the boot. I have serious concerns as to how he's running the team, and the clock management this season. Too many avoidable penalties that are all on the coaches, although I'm not sure if it's on Trestman and Cavlllo (field level) or Condell (up in the box); I do notice Calvillo on the field a lot when something goes wrong, but obviously not sure if he's just the middle man. In saying that, I'd have no issue with Popp being given the boot as well; yeah, he brought in Franklin to try and ensure Montreal Post AC didn't occur, but our OL, DL, and secondary were areas of concern in the off season, and let's be honest: he didn't do a damn thing to fix any of it (Bomben during the season is about it).

That's a lot of salary to eat up though - MLSE can afford, but would they want to ?

[R.J]

Marc Trestman to referee Al Bradbury: ‘You’re lucky I’m mic’d tonight’
http://3downnation.com/2018/10/12/marc-trestman-referee-al-bradbury-youre-lucky-im-micd-tonight/

Wish I recorded the game lol, but I agree with Trestman: there's no way that should have been pass interference. Banks wasn't held, impeded, tripped etc; just a cry baby, who goes for those calls.

[doubleblue]

Some rambling thoughts------Basically Hamilton is better than the Argos almost man to man. Masoli used his mobility to provide the time for his receivers to get in the clear. Yell had trouble covering his receiver all night. Franklin had a so-so game. One time he tried to force a pass to Green and Carter was streaking down the field behind coverage. Carter was waving for the ball but Franklin had locked into Green.

On two occasions, the coaches were late sending an offensive player in. Once it resulted in the QB calling a time out and another a too many men penalty. One could also question the offensive play calling. Too many times when 10 yards were needed for a first down, the pass was for 5 yards.


To be competitive, the team needs upgrades at DE's, at DB's, at OL and with some of the coaching areas

I agree. Also Trestman does seem so set in his ways using his NFL style offense and trying to force a square peg in a round hole, as the saying goes.
I believe you have been around quite a few years like myself. The Hamilton D Line and Laurent were dominating the Argo O Line. So what would have Frank Clair, Bud Grant, Leo Cahill, Bob O'Billovich etc. have done starting the second half last night? They would have started Franklin rolling out more with a pulling Guard or Fullback to give him more time and open up that Hamilton defense for the Argo receivers including Duron Carter.
I don't think the Argo defense is good enough to beat Hamilton, but they could have made the game closer and interesting changing things up in the second half. IMO
Still can't believe the way Trestman has black balled Carter from his offense. Something is going to have to give when the season is over.
When we hear Manning say something to the affect "we will be evaluating everyone" that could be code for saying we think Popp and Trestman screwed up big time.

[ArgoZ]

Interesting info Paul. The only reason, (so we were told) that both Popp and Trestman came to Toronto was each other. A season of compounded losses and everyone can't get along. No surprise. The GM should always be on the same page as the coach. Pressure from losing makes people choose their own solutions over others. Coincidently, Manning has almost the same problem with TFC at the moment.

[paulwoods13]

Marc Trestman to referee Al Bradbury: ‘You’re lucky I’m mic’d tonight’
http://3downnation.com/2018/10/12/marc-trestman-referee-al-bradbury-youre-lucky-im-micd-tonight/

Wish I recorded the game lol, but I agree with Trestman: there's no way that should have been pass interference. Banks wasn't held, impeded, tripped etc; just a cry baby, who goes for those calls.

Right, but yelling at Bradbury is silly. He did not make the call initially, nor did he confirm it. The culprits are the back judge (or field judge, whomever made the call) and the replay official. One replay seemed to show a tiny bit of hand-fighting late in the route, but that stuff gets allowed all the time without any call. Unfortunately there was enough there that the replay official probably couldn't overturn it even if he wanted to. Had the call gone the other way (i.e. no call, and Hamilton challenged), I doubt the call would have been overturned to DPI.

[Will]

The saying goes, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."
I think I will follow this mantra.

[ArgoZ]

I wish refs would just let the players play more. We've seen so many games completely change over questionable calls. It's not like Banks was going to make the catch. Argos finally make it to the QB and get flagged for tackling to hard. The NFL has had this problem this year too.

[R.J]

Right, but yelling at Bradbury is silly. He did not make the call initially, nor did he confirm it. The culprits are the back judge (or field judge, whomever made the call) and the replay official. One replay seemed to show a tiny bit of hand-fighting late in the route, but that stuff gets allowed all the time without any call. Unfortunately there was enough there that the replay official probably couldn't overturn it even if he wanted to. Had the call gone the other way (i.e. no call, and Hamilton challenged), I doubt the call would have been overturned to DPI.
Makes you wonder why we even have replay officials seeing as they seem to get a lot of calls wrong (and the League apologizes for it). Hand fighting shouldn't be considered DPI IMO, but those calls seem to go Banks way A LOT.

[R.J]

The saying goes, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."
I think I will follow this mantra.
I say rant/vent on. We don't have a call in show to express our desires to fire everyone lol, but we do have this place. Twitter as well I suppose, but twitter is a black hole of lunacy IMO.

[Will]

I say rant/vent on. We don't have a call in show to express our desires to fire everyone lol, but we do have this place. Twitter as well I suppose, but twitter is a black hole of lunacy IMO.

I'm only applying the quote to myself.

The rest of you can rant/vent on.

[doubleblue]

Marc Trestman to referee Al Bradbury: ‘You’re lucky I’m mic’d tonight’
http://3downnation.com/2018/10/12/marc-trestman-referee-al-bradbury-youre-lucky-im-micd-tonight/

Wish I recorded the game lol, but I agree with Trestman: there's no way that should have been pass interference. Banks wasn't held, impeded, tripped etc; just a cry baby, who goes for those calls.

Yah that was a phantom call IMO. I don't think it was Bradbury who made the call, but he was the Referee who could have over ruled and said "there was no infraction on the play". But that doesn't happen very often. I'm one of those who says "let them play the game". I didn't think there was any serious infraction on Hamilton's Williams kick return for a TD, but it is a fine line. Where do you draw the line.
Difficult to find enough good officials who can make that split second common sense call. We have to remember they are basically amateur officials who do this beside their regular jobs.
Still bothers me about that call last year where Winnipeg's Miller fell in front of Llevi Noel who got called for an illegal block. Of course who ever was the eye in the sky wouldn't over turn it probably because he didn't want a League sponsor to lose a million on his call.
My official rant for the day. lol

[R.J]

I'm only applying the quote to myself.

The rest of you can rant/vent on.
I understand, but your viewpoint is always appreciated here; seeing as your one of the calmer non kool aid drinkers.

[AngeloV]

Everyone's favourite punching bag Arash Madani tweeted last night that either Popp or Trestman won't be back and there is a lot of friction between Argo management (presumably one or both of those guys) and MLSE (presumably Manning). If it comes down to a power struggle, clearly Manning will win. I suspect a rift has developed between coach and GM -- it's the only logical explanation for the whole Carter situation. s.

We didn't need Trash to tell us there was a rift. It was so obvious. I suggested that on here a couple of weeks ago. It was so obvious that Popp went out to get Franklin to be the next guy up, but Trestman is in love with guys that put football before their personal lives like MBT. The Carter thing was brutal too. We all suggested that Carter wasn't a Trestman type guy and figured for that reason he wasn't coming here, yet Popp signed him. What followed IMO was Trestman showing Popp who is in charge, and came up with some BS story about Carter needing to learn the system. That IMO was an FU to Popp. If he was new to the league, it would be one thing, but a vet receiver can just plug an play. QB or another receiver can relay his responsibilities to him. I've been saying this on twitter for a couple of weeks, but I really hope Trestman isn't back next year.

[R.J]

I'm actually shocked that Angelo of all people has turned on Trestman. Especially considering he was one of th few who wanted to keep Milanovich around.

[AngeloV]

T
Duron Carter? In my opinion... cut him now. One of the only times I saw him run with any effort was when the final whistle went and he sprinted off the field... first one in the showers... he should be the first one shown the door.

.

I have to disagree. Carter has started the last 4 games, and SJ Green has had by far his most productive stretch over that time. Even in BC, when Green left early, Myles Whyte took his spot and made plays. There's a reason for that, and it's Carter's presence. I don't blame him for being frustrated, but it's not affecting his play, and he's kept his mouth shut. Trestman is the problem, not Carter. Trestman can't coach young QB's. That's my opinion, and I will stand by it.

You know there's a problem with play calling when we can predict every screen pass before it happens. There is no imagination in his offence whatsoever. Ricky Ray wasn't going to play forever, and Trestman didn't adjust. If this was Scott Milanovich, the cries for his head would be deafening. At least it took him 5 seasons before he had a really bad season.


I'm actually shocked that Angelo of all people has turned on Trestman. Especially considering he was one of th few who wanted to keep Milanovich around.

As you can tell, I still wish Milanovich was here. He had 1 bad year, and considering the crap he endured in 2015 with the schedule, he was a great coach.

[paulwoods13]

Yah that was a phantom call IMO. I don't think it was Bradbury who made the call, but he was the Referee who could have over ruled and said "there was no infraction on the play". But that doesn't happen very often.

A referee will never overrule a call made 30 yards downfield. He's not in position to see it properly from such a distance. He has to (and we have to) rely on his fellow officials to make the correct calls in their areas of responsibility. Refs are essentially responsible personally for holding, roughing the passer, intentional grounding, time-count violations, and that's about it. Sometimes an official close to where a call was made will advise the ref to overrule the call, but only if he had a great angle and closeup view of the play.

[R.J]

Interestingly enough Matt Dunigan agrees with Angelo about Trestman and young QB's. As I said when it was rumoured that Trestman was going to be hired: Trestman has never developed a young QB. And it appears he's still set to continue that trend. I like Trestman as a person, but considering I never wanted him here in the first place; I wouldn't mind seeing him leave.

I still wonder how the new football ops will work - does a fired coach's/GM's salary count against it ? Or if they're fired prior to January 1st would it carry over ?

Popp is a whole other issue, but when is the last time he had a good draft ? 2006 ?
Admittedly, Montreal's secondary and defence as a whole was usually pretty good for a lot of the Popp years. Even at the end when things went downhill the D was pretty good under Thorpe, but holy hell is our defence terrible this year. Crap DL, invisible linebacking corps, and the secondary looks like they were coached by Greg Quick. In saying that, I'm not sure who could take over for Popp ? McEvoy, Murphy, O'Day, Rigmaiden, Allemang, Burke, Austin, Snyder, Gorrell or Rosetti ? I suppose Sunderland may end up being available.

Kind of funny to think that Edmonton may end up losing Reilly to BC in the off season, and already traded away Franklin. Although, it still wouldn't shock me to see Franklin traded away.

[RB957]

I have to disagree. Carter has started the last 4 games, and SJ Green has had by far his most productive stretch over that time. Even in BC, when Green left early, Myles Whyte took his spot and made plays. There's a reason for that, and it's Carter's presence. I don't blame him for being frustrated, but it's not affecting his play, and he's kept his mouth shut.

I know that comment has been made about the effect of Carter's presence, and that this has created openings for other receivers, but he was brought here to be a play maker not a decoy. You're right, he has kept his mouth shut (for now), but a friend I brought to last night's game and another friend watching the game on TV both commented on a perceived lackadaisical appearance about him. On one series, he walked so slowly to the huddle, it looked to me like he barely made it in time to hear the play call. The whole situation has not been handled well from the beginning, and for a number of different reasons - be it coaching decisions, play calling, whatever - his potential to help the team has not been realized. At some point, given his history... this is going to blow up. And I predict it will be messy.

[Argo57]

Too early to give up on Franklin as he needs reps, but eventually he's got to take advantage of his opportunities.

I suspect the friction between MLSE and Popp/Trestman has to do with the losing, and Popp/Trestman won't win that fight. Maybe this ends up being 2016 redux and Manning decides to keep Trestman over Popp - I hope knot tbh, as I'd rather see Trestman given the boot. I have serious concerns as to how he's running the team, and the clock management this season. Too many avoidable penalties that are all on the coaches, although I'm not sure if it's on Trestman and Cavlllo (field level) or Condell (up in the box); I do notice Calvillo on the field a lot when something goes wrong, but obviously not sure if he's just the middle man. In saying that, I'd have no issue with Popp being given the boot as well; yeah, he brought in Franklin to try and ensure Montreal Post AC didn't occur, but our OL, DL, and secondary were areas of concern in the off season, and let's be honest: he didn't do a damn thing to fix any of it (Bomben during the season is about it).

That's a lot of salary to eat up though - MLSE can afford, but would they want to ?

Quite sad to see how things can fall apart in less than one season, 2017 Popp and Trestman arrive and recreate the magic shown in Montreal, 2018 the onfield product absolutely sucks and if true friction between the Coach, GM and ownership which may very lead to changes in this off season all in the midst of trying to rebuild the brand.
Popp and Trestman must own this season’s result but my overriding concern is the fact that the guy making the decisions (Manning) in regards to who goes-stays and most importantly who replaces them has limited knowledge and connections in the CFL.
We’ve gone from optimism and stability to more uncertainty.

[AngeloV]

Quite sad to see how things can fall apart in less than one season, 2017 Popp and Trestman arrive and recreate the magic shown in Montreal, 2018 the onfield product absolutely sucks and if true friction between the Coach, GM and ownership which may very lead to changes in this off season all in the midst of trying to rebuild the brand.
Popp and Trestman must own this season’s result but my overriding concern is the fact that the guy making the decisions (Manning) in regards to who goes-stays and most importantly who replaces them has limited knowledge and connections in the CFL.
We’ve gone from optimism and stability to more uncertainty.

Your point about Manning making the decisions about football ops is well taken. Personally, I hope Popp stays. I think there is talent out there, just not the right coaching staff, especially considering most of the talent is young, especially on D. I’ve said it recently, but I’d love to see the Argos poach Steinauer or Claybrooks as the next HC. I’m sure Steinauer would give Condell more freedom as a coordinator and there is a connection there. Claybrooks has had a lot of success and might bring some of that winning mentality from Calgary.

[Argo57]

I'm actually shocked that Angelo of all people has turned on Trestman. Especially considering he was one of th few who wanted to keep Milanovich around.

My opinion of Trestman has also changed as this season has gone on.
Sometimes you have to simply call it as you see it, this year’s Argo team lacks talent which falls on Popp, are poorly coached in all phases (Trestman and staff) so I wouldn’t be broken hearted if changes come.
The thing with Trestman is there is no veteran QB on the horizon to execute his now seemingly predictable and boring offence so if he stays for the 2019 season we maybe in for more of the same which is unacceptable.

[R.J]

Your point about Manning making the decisions about football ops is well taken. Personally, I hope Popp stays. I think there is talent out there, just not the right coaching staff, especially considering most of the talent is young, especially on D. I’ve said it recently, but I’d love to see the Argos poach Steinauer or Claybrooks as the next HC. I’m sure Steinauer would give Condell more freedom as a coordinator and there is a connection there. Claybrooks has had a lot of success and might bring some of that winning mentality from Calgary.
I'd take Claybrooks in a heartbeat. Whomever the HC ends up being (Trestman included); I just hope we get an entirely new offensive scheme.

[R.J]

My opinion of Trestman has also changed as this season has gone on.
Sometimes you have to simply call it as you see it, this year’s Argo team lacks talent which falls on Popp, are poorly coached in all phases (Trestman and staff) so I wouldn’t be broken hearted if changes come.
The thing with Trestman is there is no veteran QB on the horizon to execute his now seemingly predictable and boring offence so if he stays for the 2019 season we maybe in for more of the same which is unacceptable.
It's been the same offense since 2010. More downs than ups with Elizondo and Lemon in '10-'11, then mediocre until the last 3 regular season games and playoffs with Milanovich and Ray in 2012, then up and down but overall good from '13-'14, then starting off strong in 2015 but trailed off towards the end of the season, then the disaster that was 2016, then started strong against the Ticats in 2017 but struggled for the next 10 games before waking up and finishing the season 7-2 including the Grey Cup win, and now 2018 where it's almost as bad as 2016.

And it's that reason (among others) that I never wanted Trestman here in the first place; I had enough of this offence since 2015.

[Argo57]

Your point about Manning making the decisions about football ops is well taken. Personally, I hope Popp stays. I think there is talent out there, just not the right coaching staff, especially considering most of the talent is young, especially on D. I’ve said it recently, but I’d love to see the Argos poach Steinauer or Claybrooks as the next HC. I’m sure Steinauer would give Condell more freedom as a coordinator and there is a connection there. Claybrooks has had a lot of success and might bring some of that winning mentality from Calgary.

I like your thinking on this Angelo, both names mentioned have pretty decent CFL coaching experience and aren’t to far removed as players which should = a fresh approach.
Condell had a young Zach Collaros playing at an MOP level when together in Hamilton so it would be nice to see him given free reign to implement his offence according to Franklin’s strengths.
Claybrooks should be in line for a HC job and is a very bright defensive mind.

[gilthethrill]

I'd take Claybrooks in a heartbeat. Whomever the HC ends up being (Trestman included); I just hope we get an entirely new offensive scheme.

A new offensive scheme? I would take an offensive scheme. Do we have an offensive scheme?

[R.J]

A new offensive scheme? I would take an offensive scheme. Do we have an offensive scheme?
I have the same question about the defence... I honestly don't understand what they're trying to do on defence, and it seems as though the players are confused as well.

[Will]

I'M TIRED of team's knowing what Argos are going to do on offence before they do it.

I'M TIRED of trying to run Brandon Burks (or whatever his name is) up the gut.

I'M TIRED of an offensive line that hasn't been good enough for the last several years (but 1/2 a season).

I'M TIRED of all the injuries on defence (I realize it is out of team's control, but it seems to happen every year).

I'M TIRED of players on defence going for the big hit instead of just making the tackle.

I'M TIRED of Trestman talking about the "good men in the locker room" as what good is that if they can't play football! I'm certain the 1997 Argonauts had VERY GOOD men in the locker room and they were beating teams 50-3.

I'M TIRED of other team's executing screen passes with superb blocking downfield by their receivers while Argos can't execute a simple screen pass.

I'M TIRED of Frank Beltre and Troy Davis being trotted out there every week to provide a useless pass rush.

I'M TIRED of Mike Archer

I'M TIRED of Marc Trestman

I'M TIRED of that team down the QEW coming into our stadium bringing 1,000s of their fans with them and our team being unable to say anything about it on the field.

[Argo57]

I'M TIRED of team's knowing what Argos are going to do on offence before they do it.

I'M TIRED of trying to run Brandon Burks (or whatever his name is) up the gut.

I'M TIRED of an offensive line that hasn't been good enough for the last several years (but 1/2 a season).

I'M TIRED of all the injuries on defence (I realize it is out of team's control, but it seems to happen every year).

I'M TIRED of players on defence going for the big hit instead of just making the tackle.

I'M TIRED of Trestman talking about the "good men in the locker room" as what good is that if they can't play football! I'm certain the 1997 Argonauts had VERY GOOD men in the locker room and they were beating teams 50-3.

I'M TIRED of other team's executing screen passes with superb blocking downfield by their receivers while Argos can't execute a simple screen pass.

I'M TIRED of Frank Beltre and Troy Davis being trotted out there every week to provide a useless pass rush.

I'M TIRED of Mike Archer

I'M TIRED of Marc Trestman

I'M TIRED of that team down the QEW coming into our stadium bringing 1,000s of their fans with them and our team being unable to say anything about it on the field.

That a boy, let it out!!!

[gilthethrill]

I have the same question about the defence... I honestly don't understand what they're trying to do on defence, and it seems as though the players are confused as well.

It's baffling how the team can deteriorate on this side of the ball so quickly in one season. Did you see how Tasker was so wide open in the end zone? 3 Hamilton receivers and 2 Argo defenders this late in the season.

[R.J]

I'M TIRED of team's knowing what Argos are going to do on offence before they do it.

I'M TIRED of trying to run Brandon Burks (or whatever his name is) up the gut.

I'M TIRED of an offensive line that hasn't been good enough for the last several years (but 1/2 a season).

I'M TIRED of all the injuries on defence (I realize it is out of team's control, but it seems to happen every year).

I'M TIRED of players on defence going for the big hit instead of just making the tackle.

I'M TIRED of Trestman talking about the "good men in the locker room" as what good is that if they can't play football! I'm certain the 1997 Argonauts had VERY GOOD men in the locker room and they were beating teams 50-3.

I'M TIRED of other team's executing screen passes with superb blocking downfield by their receivers while Argos can't execute a simple screen pass.

I'M TIRED of Frank Beltre and Troy Davis being trotted out there every week to provide a useless pass rush.

I'M TIRED of Mike Archer

I'M TIRED of Marc Trestman

I'M TIRED of that team down the QEW coming into our stadium bringing 1,000s of their fans with them and our team being unable to say anything about it on the field.
https://d.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1437599584ra/15601209.gif

It's baffling how the team can deteriorate on this side of the ball so quickly in one season. Did you see how Tasker was so wide open in the end zone? 3 Hamilton receivers and 2 Argo defenders this late in the season.
Yeah, and Banks on at least two of his catches was just sitting pretty with no one within 15 yards of him.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

I'd take Claybrooks in a heartbeat. Whomever the HC ends up being (Trestman included); I just hope we get an entirely new offensive scheme.
Claybrooks health might see him take a leave of absence for 2019.Condell might end up being the cheaper(CFL Management Salary Cap) in-house solution.Regardless a potential 1.2 million hit is not going to be a good look.

#ManningOut

[gilthethrill]

I'd take Claybrooks in a heartbeat. Whomever the HC ends up being (Trestman included); I just hope we get an entirely new offensive scheme.

Could Chamblin be coaxed from his entry level college job in Arkansas for the Argo HC job? I think he could be. Was Condell his OC in Saskatchewan when they won the Cup?

[Joe Barnes]

So, the duo of Popp and Trestman, friends for years and architects of the successful Als team that won back to back Grey Cups come to Toronto and a year ago lead the Argos to a Grey Cup on a team, and organization, that worked so well together they called it 'The Love Boat'. Now, this year Popp can't put a team together and Trestman can't coach? Ah, but there is talk of a rift...perhaps between these two old friends, perhaps with MLSE. Well, what has changed since last season? Are the two old friends, the football lifers, now at odds? i doubt it. Who is new to this situation? I think maybe we need to ask how much responsibility for this now reportedly sour situation lays at the feet of Bill Manning?

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I'M TIRED of team's knowing what Argos are going to do on offence before they do it.

I'M TIRED of trying to run Brandon Burks (or whatever his name is) up the gut.

I'M TIRED of an offensive line that hasn't been good enough for the last several years (but 1/2 a season).

I'M TIRED of all the injuries on defence (I realize it is out of team's control, but it seems to happen every year).

I'M TIRED of players on defence going for the big hit instead of just making the tackle.

I'M TIRED of Trestman talking about the "good men in the locker room" as what good is that if they can't play football! I'm certain the 1997 Argonauts had VERY GOOD men in the locker room and they were beating teams 50-3.
8
I'M TIRED of other team's executing screen passes with superb blocking downfield by their receivers while Argos can't execute a simple screen pass.

I'M TIRED of Frank Beltre and Troy Davis being trotted out there every week to provide a useless pass rush.

I'M TIRED of Mike Archer

I'M TIRED of M

I'M TIRED of that team down the QEW coming into our stadium bringing 1,000s of their fans with them and our team being unable to say anything about it on the field.

Amen brother.

[R.J]

Anyone else irritated by the Bishop rough the passer call ?
I'm all for protecting the QB to a degree, but if the QB lowers his body and head into the hit; I think the refs need to be more objective towards calling it.

[Argo]

So, the duo of Popp and Trestman, friends for years and architects of the successful Als team that won back to back Grey Cups come to Toronto and a year ago lead the Argos to a Grey Cup on a team, and organization, that worked so well together they called it 'The Love Boat'. Now, this year Popp can't put a team together and Trestman can't coach? Ah, but there is talk of a rift...perhaps between these two old friends, perhaps with MLSE. Well, what has changed since last season? Are the two old friends, the football lifers, now at odds? i doubt it. Who is new to this situation? I think maybe we need to ask how much responsibility for this now reportedly sour situation lays at the feet of Bill Manning?

Perhaps, but the lack of on-field talent and the, um, ineffective coaching do speak volumes.

[argolio]

Anyone else irritated by the Bishop rough the passer call ?
I'm all for protecting the QB to a degree, but if the QB lowers his body and head into the hit; I think the refs need to be more objective towards calling it.I agree, bad call.

[doubleblue]

Hard to imagine after last year's Grey Cup we would talking about getting rid of Trestman, Popp and half the Coaching staff a year later.
Almost like back in 1972. Leo was riding high after all the new talent he brought in for the 71 season and then it all fell apart in 72.
IMO MLSE should have a Football guy as President of the Argos for starters, not a Soccer guy. Let Manning run TFC which maybe he knows something about.
I guess it will go one of two ways. Trestman is fired or just quits, or he stays and they try to reload.
I have always thought the OLine Coach Himbach would make a great HC, so he would be my choice if Trestman leaves.
However if Trestman stays, can they make a big play for either Mitchell or Reilly who are both FA's this off season. MLSE has the money but there's that little thing about a salary cap.

[gilthethrill]

I have my doubts that either Mitchell or Reilly would want to play in Trestmans system.

[R.J]

Hard to imagine after last year's Grey Cup we would talking about getting rid of Trestman, Popp and half the Coaching staff a year later.
Almost like back in 1972. Leo was riding high after all the new talent he brought in for the 71 season and then it all fell apart in 72.
IMO MLSE should have a Football guy as President of the Argos for starters, not a Soccer guy. Let Manning run TFC which maybe he knows something about.
I guess it will go one of two ways. Trestman is fired or just quits, or he stays and they try to reload.
I have always thought the OLine Coach Himbach would make a great HC, so he would be my choice if Trestman leaves.
However if Trestman stays, can they make a big play for either Mitchell or Reilly who are both FA's this off season. MLSE has the money but there's that little thing about a salary cap.
1992 also comes to mind.

Is there any room for Jordan Younger back in Toronto? He seems to have done a good job with the DBs in Winnipeg.
Winnipeg's defence has been up and down at best this season. Check out MorningBigBlue or forums.bluebombers.com, and you'll see that fans there would have no issue losing Younger. I get that he is a former Argo, but I think that clouds a lot of fans minds.

[ArgoRavi]

I'd take Claybrooks in a heartbeat. Whomever the HC ends up being (Trestman included); I just hope we get an entirely new offensive scheme.

How about bringing back Jordan Younger for a role coaching the defence? He seems to have done a good job coaching the DBs in Winnipeg.

[ArgoRavi]

Winnipeg's defence has been up and down at best this season. Check out MorningBigBlue or forums.bluebombers.com, and you'll see that fans there would have no issue losing Younger. I get that his a former Argo, but I think that clouds a lot of fans minds.

I was yanking your chain a little, RJ, but Younger hasn't been a disaster in Winnipeg. The DBs do seem to be performing better although how much of it has to do with coaching and how much with personnel is debatable.

[R.J]

I was yanking your chain a little, RJ, but Younger hasn't been a disaster in Winnipeg. The DBs do seem to be performing better although how much of it has to do with coaching and how much with personnel is debatable.
Let's just bring the band back together... Why not bring back Barker to be the GM, Milanovich to be the Head Coach, Marcus Brady to run the offence, Stubler to run the D, and Younger to coach up the young dbs ?
That worked amazingly well before...

[ArgoRavi]

Let's just bring the band back together... Why not bring back Barker to be the GM, Milanovich to be the Head Coach, Marcus Brady to run the offence, Stubler to run the D, and Younger to coach up the young dbs ?
That worked amazingly well before...

Maybe Brady has been missed more than we all realize.

[jerrym]

I'M TIRED of team's knowing what Argos are going to do on offence before they do it.

What's worse than the professionals knowing what the Argos are going to do before they do it, is that I, a mere fan, knows it too.

[Antwon]

Anyone else irritated by the Bishop rough the passer call ?
I'm all for protecting the QB to a degree, but if the QB lowers his body and head into the hit; I think the refs need to be more objective towards calling it.

Not irritated....livid!!! if that's called, Edm fans should be livid too. The hit on Reilly last week was worse and got no call that allowed a Sask TD.

[Argo]

Not irritated....livid!!! if that's called, Edm fans should be livid too. The hit on Reilly last week was worse and got no call that allowed a Sask TD.

CFL officiating. There's no cure.

[Antwon]

Totally disappointed with game, but like most thought Franklin shows promise even though his play dropped in the second half.
Not getting into the off season yet, but I hope Popp stays. As for Trestman...not sure. The offence seems to try the same thing week in week out. Short passes on 2nd and long etc. Trestman seems stubborn with his system and it appears other teams know how to play it. (play tight they don't throw deep!!)
At this point I don't think Franklin can succeed in this offence. Let alone anyone else.
Obviously the D needs an overhaul. I predict Johnny Football gets his first win against us. FFS!

[Argo]

What's worse than the professionals knowing what the Argos are going to do before they do it, is that I, a mere fan, knows it too.

Alas, by and large anyone 1/8 paying attention over the past (too) many years can call the next Trestman-Milanovich-Brady-Trestman play.

How I miss the Flutie years, when the team actually knew what it was doing and had the talent to play well against, and usually defeat, any opponent.

[AngeloV]

Alas, by and large anyone 1/8 paying attention over the past (too) many years can call the next Trestman-Milanovich-Brady-Trestman play.

How I miss the Flutie years, when the team actually knew what it was doing and had the talent to play well against, and usually defeat, any opponent.

And how salaries didn’t matter and almost giving us a bankrupt league.

[Argo]

And how salaries didn’t matter and almost giving us a bankrupt league.

At that time, was the Argos' payroll significantly above the average?

[OV Argo]

How about bringing back Jordan Younger for a role coaching the defence? He seems to have done a good job coaching the DBs in Winnipeg.


Claybrooks has ultra limited coaching experience; i get he is doing a good job with the talented Stamps D on a perennial powerhouse team, but his resume is very limited; IMO - a smart team would hire a guy for HC with significant coaching experience in college ball and/or the pros - DC, OC and preferably some HC experience; but hey, it the good ole CFL we're talking here and some former players with a couple of years coaching experience are big favoriites to some cause they were names in the league or are buddies with somebody in a CFL organization; can work out sometimes though.

Anthony Calvillo as next Argo HC !!! - guy was a great player, and he's coached a bit for the Als & Argos.

:confused:

[AngeloV]

At that time, was the Argos' payroll significantly above the average?

I would say yes. Flutie alone was making $1M.