GDT: Larks @ Argonauts, October 20, 2018

[Will]

If we lose to the Als (again)...

[Stevoman]

I know there's nothing to win for statistically but this is a must win game for the Argos. Gotta have it for the fans at least!

[gilthethrill]

I envision the Alouette defence celebrating quite often tomorrow.

[lazycro]

Wynn is in and McCluster back in again instead of Alford.

Noticed Medeiros is on the depth chart but he was put onto the PR yesterday

[gilthethrill]

Wynn is in and McCluster back in again instead of Alford.

Noticed Medeiros is on the depth chart but he was put onto the PR yesterday

It will be interesting to see how the Toronto d line does against young Sean Jamieson who has struggled at Tackle this season.

[AngeloV]

Wynn is in and McCluster back in again instead of Alford.

Noticed Medeiros is on the depth chart but he was put onto the PR yesterday

Actually, both kickers are on the depth chart. The original tweeted chart doesn't show the full roster. Here is the proper one:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And our full depth ⤵️ <a href="https://t.co/x6IWARLG7O">pic.twitter.com/x6IWARLG7O</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1053300076003672065?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 19, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[lazycro]

Yea, I meant more so that Medeiros was also on there, apologies for my wording.

[Wobbler]

How was Cage at LT last week?

[Argo]

While this tilt would seem to be pretty much a toss-up, it's a good opportunity for Manziel to get his first CFL win, and I think that likely to happen. The Als' defence is better, the Argos are typically abysmal at home, and really do appear to be the worst team in the league.

3 - 13

[R.J]

While this tilt would seem to be pretty much a toss-up, it's a good opportunity for Manziel to get his first CFL win, and I think that likely to happen. The Als' defence is better, the Argos are typically abysmal at home, and really do appear to be the worst team in the league.

3 - 13

That'd be a nice pie in the face for us and the Toronto media considering how many wanted him here.

[ArgoRavi]

While this tilt would seem to be pretty much a toss-up, it's a good opportunity for Manziel to get his first CFL win, and I think that likely to happen. The Als' defence is better, the Argos are typically abysmal at home, and really do appear to be the worst team in the league.

3 - 13


For the first time in years, the Argos have been better at home than on the road. The turning point of the season was the loss in Montreal IMO. They never recovered from that loss. Anyway, the Argos will rebound with a win on Saturday. There is still no doubt in my mind that they are a better team than Montreal.

4-12

[paulwoods13]

How was Cage at LT last week?

He got beaten badly on one play that I saw, but otherwise seemed to be OK.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

This is the day the Argos bump the slump. Have fun at the game guys, I wish I could be there.

[Mightygoose]

Today is the CFL relegation game.

[paulwoods13]

According to Zicarelli, "Evan Foster makes his CFL debut . . . a rookie linebacker whom the Argos selected in the third round back in May."

Hmmm, there was an Evan Foster who plays defensive end, was drafted in 2017 and played seven games last year. Couldn't possibly be the same guy, could it?

[gilthethrill]

According to Zicarelli, "Evan Foster makes his CFL debut . . . a rookie linebacker whom the Argos selected in the third round back in May."

Hmmm, there was an Evan Foster who plays defensive end, was drafted in 2017 and played seven games last year. Couldn't possibly be the same guy, could it?

Hope he gets some quality reps at DE. If he plays well that could really make team decision making look even worse.

[ArgofanIan]

Hope there is mention or attention to Ricky Ray today... he won us 2 cups... and has given us some amazing moments... not sure I can make the game due to family stuff.... but I will be there is spirit.... Go ARRRGOS !!!!

[doubleblue]

Hope he gets some quality reps at DE. If he plays well that could really make team decision making look even worse.

Foster got a few reps last year that I remember at right end. Good first speed move off the snap but didn't get any pressure on the QB. But then again the current guys don't do much more than that either. Too small to play DE at the pro level unless they pick the spots. Give him a shot a MLB and see what he can do.

[jerrym]

Here's the Als depth chart:

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/10/RosterMatch16%40TOR2018-Chart-19-octobre.pdf

[Argo]

For the first time in years, the Argos have been better at home than on the road. The turning point of the season was the loss in Montreal IMO. They never recovered from that loss. Anyway, the Argos will rebound with a win on Saturday. There is still no doubt in my mind that they are a better team than Montreal.

4-12

The team needs to cultivate and maintain a sense of urgency about improving itself across the board, win or lose.

[Wobbler]

Hmmm, there was an Evan Foster who plays defensive end, was drafted in 2017 and played seven games last year. Couldn't possibly be the same guy, could it?
Yeah, it's a little depressing that he and his editor don't seem to be paying close attention to the team.

[Nob]

Let’s be real - the guy has been a non-factor for 2 years. Regardless how much, or little, playing time he has had.

[jerrym]

Franklin's long pass just right in front of Edwards that resulted in a 69 yard gain was something that MBT could not do.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

It's uncanny that whenever Argos have a team deep in their own zone they give up a huge play. You can count on it. It drives me insane.

[jerrym]

It's uncanny that whenever Argos have a team deep in their own zone they give up a huge play. You can count on it. It drives me insane.

It drives all of us insane, but what do you expect from a 3-12 team?

[jerrym]

Roberson's interception showed both good coverage and good wheels on taking it upfield.

[jerrym]

The Argos' passive defence and poor tackling is helping the Als offence look decent. These issues have to be addressed in the off-season by replacing Archer and replacing the arm tacklers.

[dmont]

.

Two throws when you're first and goal with three yards to go? When it was the run that got us that close in the first place? You fall forward twice and you got three yards! What the hell was that?

P.s. I havent posted in a while. This teams been too painful to watch.

[jerrym]

Franklin's interception that turned into a TD was downright ugly.

[Nob]

Bad football by two terrible teams.

Dunigan said it best at halftime - “put good players on the field”.

[jerrym]

Drew Brown is 5/5 on FGs since his arrival. Hopefully, he is the answer to out FG problems.

[jerrym]

Trestman is horrendous at deciding when to throw the challenge flag. He is 1-6 on challenges. With the quick drop of the ball and a challenge requiring clear evidence to overturn a ruling. the odds were very much stacked against winning this.

[jerrym]

Which universe is Carter's brain in, running 20 seconds off the clock with 2:40 to go when you are behind!

[jerrym]

It was the kind of win you expect by a 3-12 team playing a 3-12 team. But it's a win!

[argotom]

There is no way to sugar coat this game, two bad teams playing a bad game.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

This is the day the Argos bump the slump. Have fun at the game guys, I wish I could be there.

Consider this slump bumped. By the way did you see Johnny Sportsman sprinting to the locker room at the end of the game? His best run of the day. What a jerk.

[Stevoman]

Consider this slump bumped. By the way did you see Johnny Sportsman sprinting to the locker room at the end of the game? His best run of the day. What a jerk.

Thought that was sad as well. He kind of looked like Tom Brady after losing a Super Bowl.

[Stevoman]

A win is a win! Nice to see the comeback in the final 3 minutes and I felt like the Argos were giving the Al's the lead more than the Al's were taking the lead. Franklin's second interception was a bad play but thought he did well for the rest. I loved the hit he dished out while on the scramble!

[jerrym]

Franklin made some development mistakes as a QB. He had some good series as the Argos dominated time of possession in the second half but couldn't finish the drives until the end of the game. However, I didn't know Franklin is also a fullback until I saw him hit Dozier. :D

[argotom]

I know there are 2 more games to go, but where do we start in blowing this thing up......from top to bottom.
President, GM, HC, definitely new Co-ordinators to include on the offense and heck maybe a new free agent QB and there will be several possibilities to include Mitchell, Reilly, Lulay, Jennings?

[Argo]

Drew Brown is 5/5 on FGs since his arrival. Hopefully, he is the answer to out FG problems.

Just watched the highlights and read the recap: it looks like the difference between Bede and Brown was the difference in the game.

[Argo]

I know there are 2 more games to go, but where do we start in blowing this thing up......from top to bottom.
President, GM, HC, definitely new Co-ordinators to include on the offense and heck maybe a new free agent QB and there will be several possibilities to include Mitchell, Reilly, Lulay, Jennings?

Whatever else may occur... not Jennings.

[Nob]

Agreed - no to Jennings.

He’s getting roasted here in BC. His GM threw him under the bus. Said he never spends any time at the facility learning or watching film.

[argotom]

Agreed - no to Jennings.

He’s getting roasted here in BC. His GM threw him under the bus. Said he never spends any time at the facility learning or watching film.

Jennings has not looked good the last couple of years in fact, has regressed.
Maybe he needs a change of scenery.

[OV Argo]

Hope he gets some quality reps at DE. If he plays well that could really make team decision making look even worse.


Didn't notice Foster in the game, but Cam Walker got some reps at DE and looked pretty good - got some pass rush pressure and showed a motor.

[Argo]

Consider this slump bumped. By the way did you see Johnny Sportsman sprinting to the locker room at the end of the game? His best run of the day. What a jerk.

I cannot blame Manziel, considering the asinine decision to pull him out of the game for the last play hail mary. Not only is he embarrassed today on Canuck TV and - more importantly for him - on ESPN, tomorrow he'll still have to deal with the incompetents running the team (into the ground).

[paulwoods13]

Didn't notice Foster in the game, but Cam Walker got some reps at DE and looked pretty good - got some pass rush pressure and showed a motor.

Foster played specials only, and did nothing particularly noticeable (altho it's impossible to judge how all 12 guys do on kick coverage and returns without the benefit of game film). Walker has played well several times this season. He got lots of reps yesterday and looked very good at times. I could see him being worked into a regular rotation next season (assuming he's back), especially if the Argos draft Betts.

[paulwoods13]

Consider this slump bumped. By the way did you see Johnny Sportsman sprinting to the locker room at the end of the game? His best run of the day. What a jerk.

And Duron Carter did the same thing, more or less. While everyone else associated with the Argos was celebrating the victory, he immediately sauntered towards the locker room. He also (again) was slow getting back to the huddle more than once. I am convinced he cannot feel comfortable unless he is the centre of attention. It's only a matter of time before he blows up, IMO.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

And Duron Carter did the same thing, more or less. While everyone else associated with the Argos was celebrating the victory, he immediately sauntered towards the locker room. He also (again) was slow getting back to the huddle more than once. I am convinced he cannot feel comfortable unless he is the centre of attention. It's only a matter of time before he blows up, IMO.

I didn't see Carter do the same thing because the camera was trained on Manziel as it always is on a TSN broadcast whether it's an Als game or not. I did see DC running down the clock on the Montreal missed field goal though with the Argos behind on the scoreboard and little time on the clock. I bet Trestman was really impressed with that. Carter and Manziel are two peas in a pod, me first players that say the right things when interviewed but continue to be selfish on the field. Personally I will be very surprised if Duron Carter is at Argo training camp next year.

[Will]

It was nice that Argos sent us home with a win in the home finale.

[AngeloV]

So tough to judge Duron Carter. My buddy put the pick 6 Franklin threw directly on Carter and what he referred to as a very lazy route. He’s said all the right things, but you know he wants to blow up. Is this a test to see how he handles not being a focal point in an offence? If it is, he has failed, but at the same time it is not a good move to not use a known playmaker to his abilities. In any event, I don’t see Carter returning next year, so time to move Myles White to the boundary WR position, and bring Alford back into the line-up.

[Will]

So tough to judge Duron Carter. My buddy put the pick 6 Franklin threw directly on Carter and what he referred to as a very lazy route. He’s said all the right things, but you know he wants to blow up. Is this a test to see how he handles not being a focal point in an offence? If it is, he has failed, but at the same time it is not a good move to not use a known playmaker to his abilities. In any event, I don’t see Carter returning next year, so time to move Myles White to the boundary WR position, and bring Alford back into the line-up.

Carter went inside when I assume Franklin wasn't expecting him to.

[Joe Barnes]

It was nice that Argos sent us home with a win in the home finale.

Any idea what the attendance was? They didn't announce it (or I missed it when they did), and it is not on the CFL site. Just curious - I still had a good time!

[Will]

Any idea what the attendance was? They didn't announce it (or I missed it when they did), and it is not on the CFL site. Just curious - I still had a good time!

No idea.

[doubleblue]

Drew Brown is 5/5 on FGs since his arrival. Hopefully, he is the answer to out FG problems.

The Argos might well be still in the playoff fight if Drew Brown had been here earlier. Some missed field goals were the difference in a couple of games anyway. He looks very consistent from 40-45 in. Might not have the leg for 50+.
But Ottawa is doing very well with a similar kicker.

[paulwoods13]

On one of the 38-yarders, it seemed to be long enough to have been good at 50-plus.

[AngeloV]

On one of the 38-yarders, it seemed to be long enough to have been good at 50-plus.

I think he has a really big leg. his 44 yarder last week reached the back of the endzone.

[ArgoGabe22]

And Duron Carter did the same thing, more or less. While everyone else associated with the Argos was celebrating the victory, he immediately sauntered towards the locker room. He also (again) was slow getting back to the huddle more than once. I am convinced he cannot feel comfortable unless he is the centre of attention. It's only a matter of time before he blows up, IMO.

His body language is very poor. He’s an individual no doubt, and not apart of the team. Pre-snap or after the play, he has no energy or desire to get back in the huddle. On the bench he just sits on the end, alone. He came out on 2nd down for Cross and instead of watching the play closely on the sideline, he immediately went to bench as if he had known it would turn to a 3rd down. On the play Franklin escaped pressure and went on a run, everyone on offence seemed to be energized and congratulated Franklin. Except Carter. Now he does run his routes, but is mostly just clearing out deep.

A Rider fan pointed out that this isn’t new about Carter. His lack of hussle isn’t new.

[Argo57]

His body language is very poor. He’s an individual no doubt, and not apart of the team. Pre-snap or after the play, he has no energy or desire to get back in the huddle. On the bench he just sits on the end, alone. He came out on 2nd down for Cross and instead of watching the play closely on the sideline, he immediately went to bench as if he had known it would turn to a 3rd down. On the play Franklin escaped pressure and went on a run, everyone on offence seemed to be energized and congratulated Franklin. Except Carter. Now he does run his routes, but is mostly just clearing out deep.

A Rider fan pointed out that this isn’t new about Carter. His lack of hussle isn’t new.

I suspect Carter’s CFL and quite likely his football career is coming to an end.

[GregR]

I am not impressed at all with DC. He just doesn't look like he cares. WTF was he thinking on that missed field goal??

[paulwoods13]

Lots of folks were ripping Trestman earlier for misusing Carter -- maybe he knew something after all.

[ArgoGabe22]

Lots of folks were ripping Trestman earlier for misusing Carter -- maybe he knew something after all.

There were also times when it was frustrating watching Franklin. I dunno who’s to blame but those picks looked like the Franklin that got benched. They were gifts.

[argolio]

I know there are 2 more games to go, but where do we start in blowing this thing up......from top to bottom.
President, GM, HC, definitely new Co-ordinators to include on the offense and heck maybe a new free agent QB and there will be several possibilities to include Mitchell, Reilly, Lulay, Jennings?You got exactly the GM, coach and QB you demanded for over a year, so maybe you can start by defending your convictions.


I cannot blame Manziel, considering the asinine decision to pull him out of the game for the last play hail mary. Not only is he embarrassed today on Canuck TV and - more importantly for him - on ESPN, tomorrow he'll still have to deal with the incompetents running the team (into the ground).I get what the Als did on the last play. Pipkin has a stronger arm. I've seen that done before.

If anything, Manziel was the victim of an intentional grounding penalty the play before that was too close to call.


Lots of folks were ripping Trestman earlier for misusing Carter -- maybe he knew something after all.Talented player, but the problem with him is that he's not interested unless he's a prime target. And even then, he can turn into a big suck if he goes through a dry spell. Too much me, not enough we.

[Argo]

Talented player, but the problem with him is that he's not interested unless he's a prime target. And even then, he can turn into a big suck if he goes through a dry spell. Too much me, not enough we.

I appreciate his talent, and he's been good for fan engagement during his previous stops, but even though he's a free spirit - and apparently still immature at 27 - he has to demonstrate a reasonable degree of teamwork.

However long this gig lasts, Carter's fast running out of CFL opportunities, if he hasn't already. There may be a spot for him in the new league.

[Argo]

I get what the Als did on the last play. Pipkin has a stronger arm. I've seen that done before.

If anything, Manziel was the victim of an intentional grounding penalty the play before that was too close to call.

On the Als' board at forums.cfl.ca this is discussed, and it was also noted that JM was (also, or more) P.O. about a winnable game lost, one of the reasons being that the Bad Bede showed up again. It does seem that the Als will try to go with a different kicker next season.

[OV Argo]

On the Als' board at forums.cfl.ca this is discussed, and it was also noted that JM was (also, or more) P.O. about a winnable game lost, one of the reasons being that the Bad Bede showed up again. It does seem that the Als will try to go with a different kicker next season.


Bede as the Als FG kicker is another example, IMO, of a dumb CFL team thinking they have to go with just one kicker to do both jobs; there is ZERO reason for this unless the guy is the reincarnation of Lui Passaglia in his prime (booming punter + very accurate FG kicker); and not only that, if your one kicker gets injured early in a big game, you are basically done in that game without a decent replacement; Bede is a good punter and also has the strongest kick-off distance leg in the league (by a mile); so find a good, accurate FG kicker to go with him. CFL rosters are easily large enough to carry 2 kickers - no excuses acceptable there.

[jerrym]

And Duron Carter did the same thing, more or less. While everyone else associated with the Argos was celebrating the victory, he immediately sauntered towards the locker room. He also (again) was slow getting back to the huddle more than once. I am convinced he cannot feel comfortable unless he is the centre of attention. It's only a matter of time before he blows up, IMO.

He reminds me of Downtown Eddie Brown who used to sulk and put out little effort if he did not get passes early and often. I also wonder if he is suffering from Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). His running around for twenty seconds in the end zone with 2:40 to go on the punt return while still giving up the single and the Argos behind made no sense for anyone paying attention to the situation.



A new study from The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center finds athletes with attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are more likely to compete in team contact sports than individual sports, which could increase their risk of injury. ...
"We expected athletes with ADHD to gravitate toward individual sports, like golf or tennis, where they have more control, there is a little bit more repetitiveness and they don't have to worry about the responsibilities or roles of teammates or opponents," said Dr. James Borchers, director of the Division of Sports Medicine at Ohio State Wexner Medical Center. "But what we found was our athletes with ADHD were twice as likely to compete in team sports, and their rate of participation in contact sports, like football, hockey and lacrosse, was 142 percent higher."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170511135755.htm

[Joe Barnes]

With the right structure in place, people with ADHD can thrive. Maybe this is what Trestman has been attempting to do? Perhaps there is a successful payoff on the field next year...

[ArgoRavi]

Bede as the Als FG kicker is another example, IMO, of a dumb CFL team thinking they have to go with just one kicker to do both jobs; there is ZERO reason for this unless the guy is the reincarnation of Lui Passaglia in his prime (booming punter + very accurate FG kicker); and not only that, if your one kicker gets injured early in a big game, you are basically done in that game without a decent replacement; Bede is a good punter and also has the strongest kick-off distance leg in the league (by a mile); so find a good, accurate FG kicker to go with him. CFL rosters are easily large enough to carry 2 kickers - no excuses acceptable there.

I agree with you on this, OV. The kicking game is so critical in this league that if you need two kickers, then go with two kickers.

[AngeloV]

I agree with you on this, OV. The kicking game is so critical in this league that if you need two kickers, then go with two kickers.

With the game day rosters now at 44 there is no need to go the dual kicker route. Hell, when the game day roster was 37, the Argos were pretty successful with the Ilesic/Chomyc duo.

[argotom]

You got exactly the GM, coach and QB you demanded for over a year, so maybe you can start by defending your convictions.

I get what the Als did on the last play. Pipkin has a stronger arm. I've seen that done before.

If anything, Manziel was the victim of an intentional grounding penalty the play before that was too close to call.

Talented player, but the problem with him is that he's not interested unless he's a prime target. And even then, he can turn into a big suck if he goes through a dry spell. Too much me, not enough we.


I am responding to your emphatic, bold and underlined "exactly".
Don't know what you expect here?
But yes, I was very high on the Franklin bandwagon stating he was a can't miss FA before the team traded for him.
He has not performed to his billings and yes for me so far has underperformed.
And yes if you want to hear, I and likely most of us expected more.
For this year, I was wrong on his ability. Maybe if he is given another chance for next year he may yet prove me correct or he could be one and done?
But on the other front, hey when a team goes from the penthouse to the outhouse in one year then all bets are off for the remaining manangement positions.
An evaluation that like I said MLSE and the rest of the ownership group will have to carefully evaluate and decide on each person's fate.