Toronto Argonauts relieve Marc Trestman of head coaching duties

[Will]

https://www.argonauts.ca/2018/11/03/toronto-argonauts-relieve-marc-trestman-head-coaching-duties/

That was fast!

[Mightygoose]

I thought he would be back next season. But at 4-14 coming off a Grey Cup win and after Manning coming out public about needing to win, a message was sent.

Still wonder if this is actually mutual and there's an opportunity or 2 down south

[timlb01]

Don’t forget about the new management cap. This would be part of the factor too.

[Antwon]

Wow didn't expect anything that fast. Obviously there's been some disagreement at different levels.
I wonder if Steinauer could be pried away from Hamilton?

[doubleblue]

https://www.argonauts.ca/2018/11/03/toronto-argonauts-relieve-marc-trestman-head-coaching-duties/

That was fast!

Wow! Didn't think it would really happen. Doesn't make me feel good about it. I think Marc Trestman is a good man but things sure went south this year. The last two games it sure looked like he had lost the team. The Carter debacle didn't help him in the eyes of Management either I don't think.

Except for hiring Trestman, Jim Popp hasn't got a good record of hiring successful Coaches.

[paulwoods13]

It seems clear Popp is staying on. I don't have an issue with that -- he has a good track record of player recruitment over two-plus decades in the CFL. Obviously finding the right head coach is imperative. There are a lot of potential candidates, including fairly obvious ones like Steinauer, Condell, Austin (yuck), LaPolice and Benevides, and less-obvious ones like Himebauch. I wonder if Popp will have to wait until after teams are eliminated to talk to assistants, or if there is a protocol in place to do it while teams are alive, as there is in the NFL. I'd like someone with CFL experience and an offensive philosophy that includes more of a commitment to a running game, but the latter may conflict with the former.

As for Trestman, he deserves our long-term appreciation for the miracle he managed to create last year. Unfortunately his deep commitment to his approach to coaching mutated into unsuccessful stubbornness and perhaps arrogance this year. It cost us right from the start of the season, when a few guys who excelled in camp and preseason (like Trumaine Washington) were left off the active roster in favour of veterans who were past their primes.

[Will]

I cannot believe how indifferent I seem to be to this news.

He did not have an easy go of it this year for a variety of reasons (personal & otherwise), but I largely agree with Paul's second paragraph.

What I am interested to learn (and we may never know) is the 'behind the scenes' of all of this. Is it Manning who pushed for it?

[Argo]

Apart from the very hefty financial hit... good news.

[R.J]

I had a feeling that this was the likely outcome, but Trestman absolutely had to go. Good on the Argos Brass and even Popp for seeing that Trestman was part of the problem too. In saying that, I wish Trestman nothing but the best in his personal life.

[Argo]

It seems clear Popp is staying on. I don't have an issue with that -- he has a good track record of player recruitment over two-plus decades in the CFL. Obviously finding the right head coach is imperative. There are a lot of potential candidates, including fairly obvious ones like Steinauer, Condell, Austin (yuck), LaPolice and Benevides, and less-obvious ones like Himebauch. I wonder if Popp will have to wait until after teams are eliminated to talk to assistants, or if there is a protocol in place to do it while teams are alive, as there is in the NFL. I'd like someone with CFL experience and an offensive philosophy that includes more of a commitment to a running game, but the latter may conflict with the former.

As for Trestman, he deserves our long-term appreciation for the miracle he managed to create last year. Unfortunately his deep commitment to his approach to coaching mutated into unsuccessful stubbornness and perhaps arrogance this year. It cost us right from the start of the season, when a few guys who excelled in camp and preseason (like Trumaine Washington) were left off the active roster in favour of veterans who were past their primes.

Year in and year out, Calgary didn't seem to have a problem coupling a stellar ground game with aerial fireworks, so it can be done.

Popp has another year to demonstrate that he can successfully attract and assemble talented players. I only hope that he can also first select and sign the probable best available next head coach.

[Stevoman]

Imagine going back to last December and saying he'd be fired by this time next year! However, imagine saying last year that we'd only win 4 games this year; both would've been unbelievable.

I have mixed feelings about the move. I really like his approach of building better men and using football as the opportunity but do think he was massively out coached this year and this team has never seemed together at any point and that lands on the coach.

With a change this fast it had to be pre-determined over the last few weeks. Hopefully an action plan has also already been talked about.

[AngeloV]

I'm not surprised at all. I knew there was a power struggle between Popp and Trestman. When a GM goes out and gets a QB, and the coach benches him in favour of a journeyman, you knew (or at least I figured) there was a power struggle. I've said many times, I love Trestman the man, but at this point, I believe his coaching system is done. My first choice to replace him is Paul LaPolice, with Orlando Steinauer as a #2, but I don't believe Hamilton will give the Argos permission to talk to him. He is definitely apprenticing as the next HC for the Ti-Cats.

Bottom line, this is good news for those of us that believe in James Franklin, and James Wilder, who may be able to run a different run play with a new philosophy other than between the guards.

I'll say it again, but Scott Milanovich had 1 bad year in 5 and had many more obstacles put in front of him.


I had a feeling that this was the likely outcome, but Trestman absolutely had to go. Good on the Argos Brass and even Popp for seeing that Trestman was part of the problem too. In saying that, I wish Trestman nothing but the best in his personal life.

I'm with you on this.

[R.J]

Condell, Himebauch, Steinauer, Craig Dickenson, Maas (if let go), Lapo (I hope not), Mark Washington, Devone Claybrooks are some names out there, but don't be surprised if Popp talks to coaches down South.

Milanovich is a Trestman clone, so I hope Popp stays far away from him, and anyone else who would run the Trestman West Coast offence.

[Will]

I guess I feel no great pleasure at this news nor do I feel any great sorrow at this news.

[Argo]

Imagine going back to last December and saying he'd be fired by this time next year! However, imagine saying last year that we'd only win 4 games this year; both would've been unbelievable.

I have mixed feelings about the move. I really like his approach of building better men and using football as the opportunity but do think he was massively out coached this year and this team has never seemed together at any point and that lands on the coach.

With a change this fast it had to be pre-determined over the last few weeks. Hopefully an action plan has also already been talked about.

The 4 win record actually seems to flatter the team. The change had to be made.

[Saugonaut]

I'm feeling bummed out about this, especially after learning of Trestman's horrendous year off t field. It doesn't help that the entire media division was plugging away at creating an image of team unity and love built around the coach's philosophy. I've heard "trust the process" for so long I actually did up until we got knocked out of the playoffs. Now the process seems full of it!

I don't know what to believe in anymore you guys, this one hit deep!!!

[Will]

The 4 win record actually seems to flatter the team. The change had to be made.

The 4 wins were by 3, 1, 1 and 4 points respectively. Yikes!

[SkalbaniasGhost]

It seems clear Popp is staying on. I don't have an issue with that -- he has a good track record of player recruitment over two-plus decades in the CFL. Obviously finding the right head coach is imperative. There are a lot of potential candidates, including fairly obvious ones like Steinauer, Condell, Austin (yuck), LaPolice and Benevides, and less-obvious ones like Himebauch. I wonder if Popp will have to wait until after teams are eliminated to talk to assistants, or if there is a protocol in place to do it while teams are alive, as there is in the NFL. I'd like someone with CFL experience and an offensive philosophy that includes more of a commitment to a running game, but the latter may conflict with the former.

As for Trestman, he deserves our long-term appreciation for the miracle he managed to create last year. Unfortunately his deep commitment to his approach to coaching mutated into unsuccessful stubbornness and perhaps arrogance this year. It cost us right from the start of the season, when a few guys who excelled in camp and preseason (like Trumaine Washington) were left off the active roster in favour of veterans who were past their primes.

The CFL has a supposed protocol in place but in typical CFL fashion it is not adhered to by anyone.The protocol was implemented by Mike Lysko but Popp/Wetenhall upstaged him in 2001 with the Don Mathews hiring during Grey Cup Week.It was the beginning of the end for Lysko and shows how ungovernable this league truly is. It will be interesting to see Edmonton's response this weekend since Len Rhodes was vocal about implementing this Competition Cap.I am curious to see limitations/punishments for not adhering to said such cap and if the Eskimos will abide to it.

I applaud Trestman's contribution to the Argo's and the CFL itself.I hope he takes 2019 off and focus on personal matters. Popp(if he sticks around) will need to go younger.The rebuild is going to get alot tougher in January when the XFL starts signing players.

[AngeloV]

Another thing that really can't be overlooked this season is the fact that the Argos did not have even 1 contact day in training camp. That is crazy. How do you evaluate football players based on essentially a touch football training camp? This was by far the worst tacking team I have ever seen.

[R.J]

http://3downnation.com/2018/11/03/seven-reasons-argos-fired-marc-trestman/

Another thing worth noting:

From Kirk Penton`s The Insider`s Say of Oct. 3:

• All Jim Popp does is throw coaches under the bus. He did it to us when we were in Montreal, and that guy is starting to do it to Marc (Trestman) now.
Admittedly, I'm about concerned about that, especially considering the lengths Popp went to in order to get Higgins fired in Montreal. Popp also needs to wear some of the stink from this season IMO.

[Will]

Another thing that really can't be overlooked this season is the fact that the Argos did not have even 1 contact day in training camp. That is crazy. How do you evaluate football players based on essentially a touch football training camp? This was by far the worst tacking team I have ever seen.

Naturally it cannot all be placed on what took place in May and June, but the rot of this season seems to have taken root during training camp. For example, I remember after the 2nd pre-season game in Guelph stating that I was not concerned because it was training camp and a "Vanilla" defence was to be expected. The issue, of course, was that they never got out of that "Vanilla" scheme.

[dmont]

I think Popp deserves to go more than Trestman. Popp had a lousy off season (TJ heath and Ronnie Yell), had a horrible draft, didnt acquire enough decent talent to compensate for in-season injuries, sent Lemon packing without a replacement, and pushed the Duron Carter fiasco.

Keeping Popp and losing Trestman is the worst possible scenario. Remember Montreal? Watch Popp provided middling-to-decent coaches with mediocre players, get impatient and start meddling, fire the coaches mid-season, and take over on the sidelines. This will be ugly.

Popp should have been fired for sure. Trestman.... I dont know, I was conflicted... but i was leaning toward keep. Have you ever seen a guy unite players so well under a team-first philosophy? Even this season, nobody was complaining. He needed better players and better coordinators.

Anyways, i am not happy that Popp is sticking around.

I hope Calvillos gone too. I have nothing against him, i just think hes cursed.

[AngeloV]

I hope Calvillos gone too. I have nothing against him, i just think hes cursed.

Who do you think brought Calvillo on board? Trestman picks his coaching staff. He did a lousy job of it IMO.

[Mightygoose]

http://3downnation.com/2018/11/03/seven-reasons-argos-fired-marc-trestman/

Another thing worth noting:

Admittedly, I'm about concerned about that, especially considering the lengths Popp went to in order to get Higgins fired in Montreal. Popp also needs to wear some of the stink from this season IMO.

Agree with this line of thinking.

At the same time I don't think MLSE will give Popp as long as a leash as he had in Montreal.

Ownership has been pretty hands off (publicly) their teams as of late and let the ones they hire do their jobs.

Manning has been very hands off footballs ops until this past week as well so looking forward to their presser at 12:30.

Comparing this to the 2016 disaster season, it's refreshing to me that action is swift compared to that off season.

[Will]

I think Popp deserves to go more than Trestman. Popp had a lousy off season (TJ heath and Ronnie Yell), had a horrible draft, didnt acquire enough decent talent to compensate for in-season injuries, sent Lemon packing without a replacement, and pushed the Duron Carter fiasco.

Keeping Popp and losing Trestman is the worst possible scenario. Remember Montreal? Watch Popp provided middling-to-decent coaches with mediocre players, get impatient and start meddling, fire the coaches mid-season, and take over on the sidelines. This will be ugly.

Popp should have been fired for sure. Trestman.... I dont know, I was conflicted... but i was leaning toward keep. Have you ever seen a guy unite players so well under a team-first philosophy? Even this season, nobody was complaining. He needed better players and better coordinators.

Anyways, i am not happy that Popp is sticking around.

I hope Calvillos gone too. I have nothing against him, i just think hes cursed.

Once again, I do not trust Manning to make a hire vis-a-vis the General Manager position.

[R.J]

Agree with this line of thinking.

At the same time I don't think MLSE will give Popp as long as a leash as he had in Montreal.

Ownership has been pretty hands off (publicly) their teams as of late and let the ones they hire do their jobs.

Manning has been very hands off footballs ops until this past week as well so looking forward to their presser at 12:30.

Comparing this to the 2016 disaster season, it's refreshing to me that action is swift compared to that off season.
Manning isn't the dithering fool Copeland was.

[argotom]

The timing is surprising.
Maybe we have underestimated the concern of the ownership group.
I would not be surprised if the next shoe to drop is Popp, especially if he is responsible for this move in order to try to protect his position?

[R.J]

I would not be surprised if the next shoe to drop is Popp, especially if he is responsible for this move in order to try to protect his position?
Popp's been known to do so, which admittedly is concerning. But, Popp's got another year in his contract; shitting the bed can't be an option next season.

[argotom]

Popp's been known to do so, which admittedly is concerning. But, Popp's got another year in his contract; shitting the bed can't be an option next season.

Agreed,
But, Trestman also had a year to go on his $600k contract?

[R.J]

Agreed,
But, Trestman also had a year to go on his $600k contract?
I know, my point was it's pretty clear Popp is safe for next year, but he's only got one more year on his deal - might be a short leash.

[R.J]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrFl05oU0AAPdCJ.jpg

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Dammit. I just missed all but the last 2 minutes of the Manning - Popp press conference.

[1971GreyCup]

I watched it live on YouTube. Should be still there.

[Skinny G]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrFl05oU0AAPdCJ.jpg

We don't need that type of attitude on this team... at some point, the talent isn't worth the trouble. I'd rather go after Posey if that's at all possible in the off season.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrFl05oU0AAPdCJ.jpg

I would have thought/hoped that an announcement of dc_chillin_8's release would have come before the Marc Trestman firing. I was quite excited at his signing now can't wait to see the back of him.

[paulwoods13]

The CFL has a supposed protocol in place but in typical CFL fashion it is not adhered to by anyone.The protocol was implemented by Mike Lysko but Popp/Wetenhall upstaged him in 2001 with the Don Mathews hiring during Grey Cup Week.It was the beginning of the end for Lysko and shows how ungovernable this league truly is.

I thought that situation involved the Als making the Matthews announcement when they were not supposed to. That protocol, I thought, was to prevent announcements about coaching changes when the postseason was under way, because such announcements would distract fans from focusing on the playoffs. I want to know if there is also a protocol allowing teams to approach and negotiate with assistant coaches from other teams that are still active, as the NFL has.

[BATKINSON001]

Dammit. I just missed all but the last 2 minutes of the Manning - Popp press conference.its on youtube in full.

[ArgoGabe22]

I don’t disagree with the firing (4 wins) but I don’t like Manning taking Carter’s side on this. Carter is known to be a trouble maker and I can see Trestman not wanting him here. Seeing Carter’s effort sometimes made me extremely frustrated. I don’t think Trestman can be blamed for mismanaging Carter, even though many wanted him starting immediately. I will take Trestman’s side on the Carter situation. That missed block vs Montreal was pathetic. I’m sure there more issues regarding Carter that we will never know. A coach can’t allow for these players to get a way with it.

[R.J]

I don’t disagree with the firing (4 wins) but I don’t like Manning taking Carter’s side on this. Carter is known to be a trouble maker and I can see Trestman not wanting him here. Seeing Carter’s effort sometimes made me extremely frustrated. I don’t think Trestman can be blamed for mismanaging Carter, even though many wanted him starting immediately. I will take Trestman’s side on the Carter situation. That missed block vs Montreal was pathetic. I’m sure there more issues regarding Carter that we will never know. A coach can’t allow for these players to get a way with it.
I don't think Manning was taking Carter's side necessarily, more so that he along with Popp didn't like how it was handled. It should also be noted that Trestman wasn't playing nice with MLSE's plan to reinvigorate the Argo Brand in Toronto, and it was being discussed up top, all the way to the MLSE Executives including Friisdahl from what I've heard.

[Argo]

its on youtube in full.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6udBD9Peq8

[BATKINSON001]

I don't think Manning was taking Carter's side necessarily, more so that he along with Popp didn't like how it was handled. It should also be noted that Trestman wasn't playing nice with MLSE's plan to reinvigorate the Argo Brand in Toronto, and it was being discussed up top, all the way to the MLSE Executives including Friisdahl from what I've heard. any linkable sources? would love to read more on that.

[R.J]

any linkable sources? would love to read more on that.
I heard about Friisdahl from someone I know and trust within MLSE. Scianitti and Arash have tweeted about the not playing nice part - I think there was something written on 3downnation, but can't recall - Naylor and Lalji have also discussed it as well.

Naylor and Scianitti discussing the "misalignment".
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/naylor-explains-the-argos-misalignment~1531250
Not the first time I've heard Trestman didn't want Manziel in Toronto either.

[R.J]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6udBD9Peq8
My favourite part in the presser is you can tell Popp felt Trestman kept Bethel Thompson in there too long lol.

[Argo]

My favourite part in the presser is you can tell Popp felt Trestman kept Bethel Thompson in there too long lol.

No snaps for Prukop in the last, meaningless, game of the season.

[jerrym]

I am not surprised by the firing but I am by how quickly it occurred.

[paulwoods13]

Another thing that really can't be overlooked this season is the fact that the Argos did not have even 1 contact day in training camp. That is crazy. How do you evaluate football players based on essentially a touch football training camp? This was by far the worst tacking team I have ever seen.

That and the surprising decision to play NO veterans (apart from Johnny Sears for as few plays) in either preseason game. I thought at the time it was smart to let rookies duke it out and save the vets from wear and tear, but in retrospect it seems like a dumb approach.

[gilthethrill]

What was Manning thinking wearing that damn red sweater to an Argo press conference?😐

[ArgoZ]

That and the surprising decision to play NO veterans (apart from Johnny Sears for as few plays) in either preseason game. I thought at the time it was smart to let rookies duke it out and save the vets from wear and tear, but in retrospect it seems like a dumb approach.

It's one of those decisions that if it works out, he looks great but when not, dumb. I guess you could say that about a lot of Trestman's choices this year. It was the direct cause for the slow start, a factor in the Ray injury and a show of overconfidence.

[gilthethrill]

It's one of those decisions that if it works out, he looks great but when not, dumb. I guess you could say that about a lot of Trestman's choices this year. It was the direct cause for the slow start, a factor in the Ray injury and a show of overconfidence.

Speaking of Rays injury, trailing 34-1 in the 3rd quarter, why was he still in there?

[Antwon]

One thing that stuck with me this year was how Trestman talks about the locker room, and family etc.
But then there's a report about him ripping into a MLSE employee who quit. To me this doesn't add up...a good team needs all the support staff around them. So this reinforces the talk of Trestman going against upper management.
I really hoped that the Popp/Trestman combo was here for years.
Side note this makes me respect the careers of coach Buono, Mathews, etc. Their longevity was in part to adapting to the team they had, not forcing their system on the players.

[Argo57]

Pretty staggering fall from grace in less than a year.
Trestman is a class act but I suspect Argo management couldn’t risk more of the same in 2019.
Should be an interesting off season.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Pretty staggering fall from grace in less than a year.
Trestman is a class act but I suspect Argo management couldn’t risk more of the same in 2019.
Should be an interesting off season.

It is already.

[Argo57]

It is already.

Once the Grey Cup is over things will heat up.

[jerrym]

Coaching changes have speeded up significantly compared to fifty years ago as has the media and the two are not unrelated as the demand for information in a 24 hour cable network cycle in news and sports dictates more questioning of what is happening and why things failed, increasing the pressure on individuals and organizations to continually succeed. I still respect Trestman for his success in building a Grey Cup winning team last year and for operating under difficult personal and organizational circumstances with grace this year. However, a change had to be made.

[ArgoRavi]

The CFL has a supposed protocol in place but in typical CFL fashion it is not adhered to by anyone.The protocol was implemented by Mike Lysko but Popp/Wetenhall upstaged him in 2001 with the Don Mathews hiring during Grey Cup Week.It was the beginning of the end for Lysko and shows how ungovernable this league truly is. It will be interesting to see Edmonton's response this weekend since Len Rhodes was vocal about implementing this Competition Cap.I am curious to see limitations/punishments for not adhering to said such cap and if the Eskimos will abide to it.

That was 17 long years ago and the league has successfully instituted an embargo on any football operations announcements during the playoffs since that time.

To answer Paul's question, I am pretty sure that teams are not allowed to interview coaches from other teams until that coach's team is eliminated from the playoffs.

[ArgoRavi]

Speaking of Rays injury, trailing 34-1 in the 3rd quarter, why was he still in there?

Because Ray didn't play in the preseason, he needed to play at that point to find some rhythm on offence.

[AngeloV]

Side note this makes me respect the careers of coach Buono, Mathews, etc. Their longevity was in part to adapting to the team they had, not forcing their system on the players.

To me Buono is the most remarkable. Matthews was great, but I think a huge part of what kept him great was that he never stayed anywhere for more than a couple of years at a time. Buono had 2 great long runs with only 2 teams. That’s awesome.

[AngeloV]

Pretty staggering fall from grace in less than a year.
Trestman is a class act but I suspect Argo management couldn’t risk more of the same in 2019.
Should be an interesting off season.

Can’t wait for the annual February bitching session on here. 😂😂😂

[doubleblue]

Can’t wait for the annual February bitching session on here. 

Why wait until February. lol

Did anyone else notice the big push back on Facebook of Trestman's firing. I was a little surprised most people were not in favour, and especially the timing.

Speaking of Don Landry, from the "closed" post. I think he has been the best PA guy in my memory. Really liked him on the FAN. Don't know what happened there. He hasn't been replaced that's for sure.

[paulwoods13]

Since that other thread has been locked, I'll just say here that I did not intend to ignore the request for DMs, I thought Mike meant to DM him only with complaints, not suggestions. My apologies.

[Shatto]

Trestman's career as a CFL head coach has been outstanding. This year has been another matter but based on his record alone, one would have thought he would have been given another year to prove himself as coach.


There had to be much more to it than just one losing season, especially after winning the Grey Cup the previous season. The rather ambiguous comment about a "misalignment" leaves all sorts of questions unanswered. TFC had a disastrous season this year, after winning it all, last season but there appears to be no interest by Manning to fire the coach. We will probably never know the whole story and Trestman is too principled an individual to get into a mud slinging contest.

Interestingly, the players seemed surprised by the firing and by direct comments and implied comments, they all appear to have great respect for their coach.

[1971GreyCup]

Trestman's career as a CFL head coach has been outstanding. This year has been another matter but based on his record alone, one would have thought he would have been given another year to prove himself as coach.


There had to be much more to it than just one losing season, especially after winning the Grey Cup the previous season. The rather ambiguous comment about a "misalignment" leaves all sorts of questions unanswered. TFC had a disastrous season this year, after winning it all, last season but there appears to be no interest by Manning to fire the coach. We will probably never know the whole story and Trestman is too principled an individual to get into a mud slinging contest.

Interestingly, the players seemed surprised by the firing and by direct comments and implied comments, they all appear to have great respect for their coach.

Marc Trestman's wife Cindy commented this morning on the firing on Johany Jutras's Instagram. They never saw the firing coming. She commented that the firing wasn't as a result of coaching but new management.

[Antwon]

Marc Trestman's wife Cindy commented this morning on the firing on Johany Jutras's Instagram. They never saw the firing coming. She commented that the firing wasn't as a result of coaching but new management.

Pro sports is a nasty business. Only 4 wins and an uninspired team, new or old management should find this unacceptable.

[OV Argo]

Pro sports is a nasty business. Only 4 wins and an uninspired team, new or old management should find this unacceptable.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This - exactly; it is a tough business and most coaches know they could be fired with a bad season; Trestman got fired from 2 NFL gigs recently as well.

He seems like a super nice guy, but that doesn't matter when results/winning are most important. Wish him well, and I bet he can get another high profile football coaching job if he really wants to.

[AngeloV]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This - exactly; it is a tough business and most coaches know they could be fired with a bad season; Trestman got fired from 2 NFL gigs recently as well.

He seems like a super nice guy, but that doesn't matter when results/winning are most important. Wish him well, and I bet he can get another high profile football coaching job if he really wants to.

I echo this statement. Super nice guy and I hope things work out for him elsewhere.

[R.J]

Pro sports is a nasty business. Only 4 wins and an uninspired team, new or old management should find this unacceptable.
I find it odd how so many for whatever reason seem to overlook that the Argos were 4-14 - someone was going to take the fall. I know some don't like Manning, but if you watch the Press Conference, Manning made it very clear as to why Trestman is gone. If the Argos were 14-4 he'd still be here.

[Will]

I find it odd how so many for whatever reason seem to overlook that the Argos were 4-14 - someone was going to take the fall. I know some don't like Manning, but if you watch the Press Conference, Manning made it very clear as to why Trestman is gone. If the Argos were 14-4 he'd still be here.

There is a bit of a debate though over who should've taken the fall - Trestman or Popp.

[Shatto]

Everyone has made excellent points, that this year's dismal record justifies Manning firing Trestman and frankly I really can't argue against the decision. But, I'll pose the question again--since TFC also had a dismal record this year, why is Manning also not firing Vanney?

It seems there is more than just the 4-14 season behind the firing. Definitely need more explanation around the "misalignment" quote

[Skilz]

This article has to provide a lot of insight into the Trestman firing:

http://3downnation.com/2018/11/03/seven-reasons-argos-fired-marc-trestman/


[5. Trestman’s old school approach.

Trestman is a legendary control freak and notoriously hard on his staff. Justin Dunk relayed a story on a recent 3Down podcast that featured Trestman dressing down a communications staffer who had recently transferred from another MLSE property so emphatically the staffer quit. He’s been known to text players to criticize them for their social media activity and takes little to no input from players on game-planning. While that level of discipline is often lauded when a team is winning, it wears thin quickly and there are real questions as to whether Trestman’s my-way-or-the-highway approach to literally everything has a place in the modern game.

Seems like Good Ol' Trestman was a bit like Iron Mike Keenan for all the puck heads out there....

[AngeloV]

There is a bit of a debate though over who should've taken the fall - Trestman or Popp.

The debate ended when Popp acquired players that Trestman didn't use. That doesn't even include the coaching staff that Trestman puts together, that has nothing to do with Popp.

[AngeloV]

Everyone has made excellent points, that this year's dismal record justifies Manning firing Trestman and frankly I really can't argue against the decision. But, I'll pose the question again--since TFC also had a dismal record this year, why is Manning also not firing Vanney?

It seems there is more than just the 4-14 season behind the firing. Definitely need more explanation around the "misalignment" quote

Rightly, or wrongly, TFC also plays a secondary league in which they will once again be representing Canada in the Concacaf playdowns. They also went to the finals in 2 consecutive years, and frankly dominated their league in 2017, while the Argos really just went on a 2 month run. Argos are 13-23 over the last 2 regular seasons. I also believe that Trestman was very reluctant when he finally replaced Whitaker with Wilder as a starter the previous year. Had he not done that (and who really knows if it was in fact his choice?) the Argos may have missed the playoffs last year as well.

And for the record, I feel very dirty justifying it.

[ArgoZ]

This article has to provide a lot of insight into the Trestman firing:

http://3downnation.com/2018/11/03/seven-reasons-argos-fired-marc-trestman/



Seems like Good Ol' Trestman was a bit like Iron Mike Keenan for all the puck heads out there....

Drew Edwards sums it up nicely for the average CFL fan that is puzzled by the firing. Every point we have already discussed on here, some months ago, which is why many of our forum members understand the firing.

I'm not too upset at Tresman doing things his way. That's what a coach is supposed to do. You will get fired when you underperform doing it your way or others, so you might as well do what you want to do.

[Argo57]

The debate ended when Popp acquired players that Trestman didn't use. That doesn't even include the coaching staff that Trestman puts together, that has nothing to do with Popp.

Agreed Angelo, you can’t succeed when your coach and GM aren’t on the same page.

[R.J]

The debate ended when Popp acquired players that Trestman didn't use. That doesn't even include the coaching staff that Trestman puts together, that has nothing to do with Popp.
This is how I see it as well Angelo. When you look at both individuals this season, there's no question both failed, but Popp at least appeared to try to fix things. Eg. trying to ensure that what happened in Montreal didn't occur again (Franklin), then when it was clear the Argos needed some OL help he acquires Bomben, and when it's clear that the Argos needed a deep threat he signs Carter.

Now that's not to say Popp didn't screw up on a few things as well, like trading Lemon before Freddie signed on the dotted line, but it's pretty clear that Trestman likes a heavy veteran team, and he got one. Add in promoting Archer, adding Calvillo (which Popp may have had a hand in), continuing on with his offence when it was clear that it wasn't working, continuing with Behtel-Thompson after losing 3-4-5 games in a row, refusing to put in Franklin until they were officially out, refusing to play Carter, and pushing back on things MLSE wanted to do for exposure of the team - it all adds up to Trestman being let go.

Trestman is a big believer in "perception is reality", and the perception was that the players weren't playing for him towards the end, the perception was that he mishandled the Franklin and Carter situations, and the reality is the team was losing by a lot.

[Argo57]

This is how I see it as well Angelo. When you look at both individuals this season, there's no question both failed, but Popp at least appeared to try to fix things. Eg. trying to ensure that what happened in Montreal didn't occur again (Franklin), then when it was clear the Argos needed some OL help he acquires Bomben, and when it's clear that the Argos needed a deep threat he signs Carter.

Now that's not to say Popp didn't screw up on a few things as well, like trading Lemon before Freddie signed on the dotted line, but it's pretty clear that Trestman likes a heavy veteran team, and he got one. Add in promoting Archer, adding Calvillo (which Popp may have had a hand in), continuing on with his offence when it was clear that it wasn't working, continuing with Behtel-Thompson after losing 3-4-5 games in a row, refusing to put in Franklin until they were officially out, refusing to play Carter, and pushing back on things MLSE wanted to do for exposure of the team - it all adds up to Trestman being let go.

Trestman is a big believer in "perception is reality", and the perception was that the players weren't playing for him towards the end, the perception was that he mishandled the Franklin and Carter situations, and the reality is the team was losing by a lot.

In reality the Argos weren’t far off an 0-18 season.

[RB957]

Drew Edwards sums it up nicely for the average CFL fan that is puzzled by the firing. Every point we have already discussed on here, some months ago, which is why many of our forum members understand the firing.

I'm not too upset at Tresman doing things his way. That's what a coach is supposed to do. You will get fired when you underperform doing it your way or others, so you might as well do what you want to do.

I think this statement is bang on. Trestman has been around long enough that he will do things his way. He was the head coach and he made that clear with the decisions that he made. As it turned out, I think we all agree that in some major issues, he made the wrong decisions, so he paid the price. If the season had gone differently and we had made the playoffs, we might not be having this discussion, unless the tension and conflict between Trestman and management was so bad that a change had to be made.

I mean, you don't even have to be a loser as a coach to be fired. Best recent example is Dwayne Casey. Coach of the year honours and best regular season in Raptors history, but he can't beat the Cavs... so see you later. Like someone else said, it is a brutal business. But at least Trestman has the salary from his final year to help ease the pain.

[ArgoGabe22]

You may agree with the move to fire him after 4-14, but it shouldn't have ended like this.

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/simmons-argos-lacked-class-in-the-way-in-which-they-fired-trestman

[AngeloV]

You may agree with the move to fire him after 4-14, but it shouldn't have ended like this.

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/simmons-argos-lacked-class-in-the-way-in-which-they-fired-trestman

If in fact it happened that way. The article even says Trestman didn’t tell anyone. For all we know, Trestman May have been told even before Friday’s game and decided to finish the season out of respect for his players. When there are no quotes, it’s all speculation.

[ArgoGabe22]

If in fact it happened that way. The article even says Trestman didn’t tell anyone. For all we know, Trestman May have been told even before Friday’s game and decided to finish the season out of respect for his players. When there are no quotes, it’s all speculation.

FWIW Manning did confirm Trestman was notified at 2am during the press conference. Trestman may also have a good relationship with Simmons. His interview with him last week abut his family was quite rare and unexpected TBH.

[Shatto]

Simmons writes a damning article about the classless and unprofessional manner in which Manning fired Trestman. A 2 am call while the team was on the bus coming from the airport. No personal face to face meeting, just the message he was fired and instructed to not be at the wrap-up meeting where he could have said goodbye to the players. Also was told not to meet with his coaches.

Whether one agrees with releasing Trestman or not, this hardly seems the way you say goodbye to a respected coach who won it all for you last year. Simmons also states that Manning never once met with Trestman to talk about the team.

Could anyone picture Michael Clemons behaving this way if he were the Argo president. We know he would have handled the situation with class and in a respectful manner. Manning talks about "misalignment" but perhaps the misalignment also goes the other way, as well.

[Rich]

Trestman May have been told even before Friday’s game and decided to finish the season out of respect for his players.

IMO the decision was made a couple of weeks ago, and it was Trestman himself who made the decision. I think he decided he needed to be with his family in difficult times, and out of respect for him the organization spun the firing story so that he could keep receiving his salary. I mean, don't you think it was a little suspicious that Trestman, who never does interviews, revealed these deep personal details to Steve Simmons? I think it was Trestman wanting the fans to understand why he couldn't give the team 100% anymore.

Also, knowing that it was his last game sheds some light on Trestman's seemingly odd decision to play Bethel-Thompson in the last quarter in Ottawa. It was the last proud gesture of a coach who greatly admired a hard-working journeyman QB, and maybe also a gentle middle finger to Trestman's long-time and now former partner Jim ("yes Mr. Manning, sir") Popp.

[Stevoman]

The most shocking thing about it all wasn't that he was fired it was that it was announced by 8am the day after the season ended. Looks like they didn't even do the firing right.

[ArgoRavi]

The most shocking thing about it all wasn't that he was fired it was that it was announced by 8am the day after the season ended. Looks like they didn't even do the firing right.

One good thing they did was not let Trestman twist in the wind. If they were going to fire him, they might as well have done it immediately as they did.

I have no idea whether Simmons' story is correct or not. If it is, I agree that things could have been done a little better but not dragging this out was good at least.

[R.J]

You may agree with the move to fire him after 4-14, but it shouldn't have ended like this.

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/simmons-argos-lacked-class-in-the-way-in-which-they-fired-trestman
LOL, I knew this would trigger the Manning and MLSE haters.
But here's a question, why the outrage from some only now ? Manning admitted during the press conference that he spoke to Trestman at 2am, the game finished at 10:30pm and they took the team bus home (it takes around 4.5 hrs driving). Manning also admitted that he and Popp spoke about 5 weeks ago. And, a couple of days before the game, Manning was on Landsbergs show, where stated that he and Popp had a 2hr meeting a couple of days before. I think the outrage is misguided, as Popp knew this was going to happen, and didn't do it himself for whatever reason.

This happens in sports and in the "real world" all the time we just don't always hear how it's done, but "Black Monday" in the NFL is done similarly, and coaches are likewise told not to say anything, to collect their stuff and leave the premises. The Gerard Gallant situation is the worst I've ever seen in sports, because everybody saw what happened to him as it occurred. Stubler was fired by Pinball for some that don't recall, and Pinball admitted that he talked to Matthews before the move was made - Barker wasn't even told he was fired; they just changed the locks - Joe Mack fired Lapoilce via phone call - I can go on and on. And, when coaches are fired they don't have exit interviews with players - they're done, gone, that's it. As I said, one big difference here is that Simmons, who has a soft spot for Trestman, decided to write about what happened. There is no good way to fire someone, maybe Manning and Popp should have waited until the next morning to keep it classy I guess, but it seems to me that Manning just wanted the bandaid ripped off.

I'm a big fan of Marc Trestman the person, I think he's one of those classy, well mannered good guys, and I wish Trestman and his family nothing but the best, but that still doesn't change the fact it was pretty clear the team wasn't playing for him. And, to make matters worse there was clearly a division between him and Popp, and Trestman's way of doing things compared to how MLSE wanted things done. To be clear about the latter Manning admitted that he doesn't get involved with the X's and O's, so the division was clearly the accessibility and information MLSE wanted to help grow the brand. No matter what business you're in, if there's division between management from top to bottom, it ain't going to end well for the person at the bottom.

In saying all that, it's pretty clear Popp knows how to play this game, and it's pretty clear that Popp has Mannings trust, but I hope Popp doesn't get too cozy, because while he may have Manning's trust - Tanenbaum doesn't like losing. Popp not only has to make the right Head Coach hire, but also needs to fix the OL, WR, DL, LB, secondary, CDN talent/depth, maybe even QB, and WIN or he's gone. As for the talk about why there's no GM or HC change for TFC, there's a key difference that people are over looking - Vanney has Bezbatchenko's trust, and Bezbatchenko has Manning's trust - Manning and Popp made it very clear that a change at HC needed to be made. This is just speculation on my part, but I think if Popp told Manning it was important to keep Trestman, I'm not sure if this move would've been made.

Just some food for thought.

[Argo57]

RJ summed it up very well, Popp is the next guy in line who will be punted out of town if things don’t improve so he better get his next hire right.
Welcome to the Love Boat.

[paulwoods13]

There's no "good" way to fire someone who doesn't want to be fired. Manning could have waited until everyone was back in Toronto, but that would have caused its own set of issues. Does he do it as soon as Trestman arrives at the facility, or after he makes his final speech to players? If he doesn't get it done by the end of the day Saturday, is he forced to wait until after the Grey Cup because of the league's policy on no-interference-with-postseason? These thoughts undoubtedly came into his mind. If anything, maybe he should have done it two weeks ago.

[Shatto]

There are acceptable and non-acceptable ways of terminating an employee's employment, especially at the senior levels. If you have ever terminated anyone, especially a senior person, you know, it is never a pleasant job, no matter how justified. There are certain principles however, which should always be followed------privately and in person and preferably by the individual who made the decision -----firmly but with empathy of the individual's bruised feelings-------and most importantly, the person should leave the meeting with their dignity in tack.
Ihave always held the belief, that the manner in which a person is released say more about the organization and the person doing the firing than it does about the person being fired.

IMO the manner in which Trestman was fired was unacceptable. This does not imply that the firing was wrong, just the way it was handled. Nor does it imply any type of hate-on for Manning but rather an opinion that he did not perform the task in a respectful and professional manner.

I accept that other may have different opinions and they ay well be valid. In these situations there are no rights or wrongs but rather better rather than worse ways of managing the experience.

[paulwoods13]

There are acceptable and non-acceptable ways of terminating an employee's employment, especially at the senior levels. If you have ever terminated anyone, especially a senior person, you know, it is never a pleasant job, no matter how justified. There are certain principles however, which should always be followed------privately and in person and preferably by the individual who made the decision -----firmly but with empathy of the individual's bruised feelings-------and most importantly, the person should leave the meeting with their dignity in tack.
Ihave always held the belief, that the manner in which a person is released say more about the organization and the person doing the firing than it does about the person being fired.


I agree with all that, and have tried to apply those principles during my own career. But as I noted earlier, doing it when and how it was done might have been necessary to avoid creating different issues that might have been equally unacceptable for different reasons. Suppose it HAD to be done before the end of day Saturday (because of league rules), and the only window for Manning to do it was when he did. He could in theory have delegated this to Popp, but might have felt (as many CEOs would) that as president it's his job to terminate senior personnel. I'm willing to bet that there are aspects to this that we don't (and will never) know about that make it not as black-and-white as it appears.

[Antwon]

Yes, the way it happened is tough. But as other stated, they had a small window to do it.

I would have been fine with Trestman coming back next year as long as he realized he needed to adapt and change some things. Unfortunately, he showed NO willingness to do this as the season went down the drain. Short leash for Franklin, too long of one for MBT. And the same bad offence game after game. (and I don’t believe the season would be any different if Ray didn’t get hurt. If it didn’t happen in game 2 it would have in game 3 or 4. Defenses were teeing it up)

On Simmons calling out the Argos as classless. What about the report that Trestman ripped into a MLSE staffer to the point they quit? Pending all the details it doesn’t look classy on Trestman.

A number of Trestman’s actions led to Manning and Popp deciding to drop the axe.

[Neely2005]

You may agree with the move to fire him after 4-14, but it shouldn't have ended like this.

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/simmons-argos-lacked-class-in-the-way-in-which-they-fired-trestman

Not surprised, just another low class move by MLSE.

[argolio]

I put as much stock in the Simmons account as I did in his Phil Kessel-hot dog vendor story.

One thing is for sure -- Popp is now on the clock. And if 2019 is not a good year, Manning is next.

[R.J]

I put as much stock in the Simmons account as I did in his Phil Kessel-hot dog vendor story.

One thing is for sure -- Popp is now on the clock. And if 2019 is not a good year, Manning is next.
Manning ?
I think if TFC and the Argos fail again yeah, but if only the Argos fail, I could see Manning hiring a new GM.

[argolio]

I said Popp then Manning, not Popp and Manning.

[ArgoZ]

Some thoughts in the Trestman firing. We do not know the complete details. How do we not know Manning called with the intention of inviting Marc to the office Saturday before team meetings? Marc, being the control freak he is, could have insisted he know everything and it went from there. No need to come in tommorow now is there?

What kind of article would Simmons have to write to satisfy everyone? "Trestman and Argos management part ways in classy style by thanking Marc with a new Bentley, amazing supper and fireworks!" Come on people, this is a FIRING! They do not want him with their company or around their people any more. There is documented and admitted friction. It may not have gone down as intended, but many firing's don't.

As for Manning, he actually gave us real reasons for the firing, not some corporate bull that we were used to hearing from our last President. Marc did it his way, made mistakes, clashed with players and ended up losing the team. He will still get $600 g's for not coaching next year, so I think he will be fine. He can also spend the quality time he needs to and possibly help his family with that money, but we don't hear about that, only a terrible 2am phone call!

[AngeloV]

Some thoughts in the Trestman firing. We do not know the complete details. How do we not know Manning called with the intention of inviting Marc to the office Saturday before team meetings? Marc, being the control freak he is, could have insisted he know everything and it went from there. No need to come in tommorow now is there?

What kind of article would Simmons have to write to satisfy everyone? "Trestman and Argos management part ways in classy style by thanking Marc with a new Bentley, amazing supper and fireworks!" Come on people, this is a FIRING! They do not want him with their company or around their people any more. There is documented and admitted friction. It may not have gone down as intended, but many firing's don't.

As for Manning, he actually gave us real reasons for the firing, not some corporate bull that we were used to hearing from our last President. Marc did it his way, made mistakes, clashed with players and ended up losing the team. He will still get $600 g's for not coaching next year, so I think he will be fine. He can also spend the quality time he needs to and possibly help his family with that money, but we don't hear about that, only a terrible 2am phone call!

As you say, we have no idea what really happened. From Simmons point of view, it's a hell of a follow up story to the sad one he wrote last week about the hardship Trestman and his family have faced this year. Personally, I wish the Argos would have relieved him of his duties following the loss in BC, when they were officially done. Optics aren't good here, but optics aren't always accurate either.

[Argo57]

As you say, we have no idea what really happened. From Simmons point of view, it's a hell of a follow up story to the sad one he wrote last week about the hardship Trestman and his family have faced this year. Personally, I wish the Argos would have relieved him of his duties following the loss in BC, when they were officially done. Optics aren't good here, but optics aren't always accurate either.

I have no issue with Trestman being let go but I was still disappointed with Jim Popp through all of this especially considering their history together.
Popp better get this next move right or he’ll be next man out.

[AngeloV]

I have no issue with Trestman being let go but I was still disappointed with Jim Popp through all of this especially considering their history together.
Popp better get this next move right or he’ll be next man out.

I'm giving Popp a mulligan here. I think Trestman's stubbornness was the major reason for the bad season.

[Argo57]

I'm giving Popp a mulligan here. I think Trestman's stubbornness was the major reason for the bad season.

No doubt Angelo, who really knows what went down behind the scenes but Popp owns a reasonable portion of this season’s stench.

[Joe Barnes]

Disappointed but not surprised by the move, after this year's terrible season. And I say disappointed because I was one who really enjoyed the whole 'Love Boat' thing they cultivated on their run last year. The positive energy flowing from the team last year was palpable. How a dressing room goes from that 'Today is the Day!' togetherness to 'toxic' in one year is beyond me. But they had to do something, as clearly they were not playing for him at the end. Reminds me of how the Leafs bailed on Pat Burns in '96, though that was his fourth year...

[AngeloV]

How a dressing room goes from that 'Today is the Day!' togetherness to 'toxic' in one year is beyond me.

It's so hard to have the same atmosphere on a team from year to year when so many players don't return. I've said it before, but the league really needs to put some incentive in for free agents to re-sign with the own teams, and to me the most obvious way to do that is to have a portion of a re-signed player eligible for free agency not count against the cap. That way their current team can likely pay them more than any other team.

Look at the players that did not return from last year: Rico Murray, Owusa-Ansah, Mitchell White, Victor Butler, Devier Posey, Jeff Fuller (whether you liked him as a player never publicly stirred the you know what when he was demoted), Corey Watman. Add to that players that were let go (Lemon) or injured for most of the season, and it's a completely different team.

[Joe Barnes]

It's so hard to have the same atmosphere on a team from year to year when so many players don't return. I've said it before, but the league really needs to put some incentive in for free agents to re-sign with the own teams, and to me the most obvious way to do that is to have a portion of a re-signed player eligible for free agency not count against the cap. That way their current team can likely pay them more than any other team.

Look at the players that did not return from last year: Rico Murray, Owusa-Ansah, Mitchell White, Victor Butler, Devier Posey, Jeff Fuller (whether you liked him as a player never publicly stirred the you know what when he was demoted), Corey Watman. Add to that players that were let go (Lemon) or injured for most of the season, and it's a completely different team.

True enough, a lot of different faces. And once the losing starts, I guess that negativity takes on a life of its own, as well. Though Trestman insisted it was a good room right to the end...so who knows. Hey, maybe the Don Bosco/School Bus/Tennis court situation actually unified last year's group - kind of an 'us against the world' thing and Trestman's visualizations and 'play for the guy next to you' philosophy worked. This year, a different group, in a better (though still far from perfect) practice set up, didn't buy in.

[R.J]

https://soundcloud.com/3downnation/gott-beer-trestman-fired-ambrosie-decisions-playoff-preview

Some discussion about Trestman's way of doing things wearing thin, players not being able to "be who they are", not adapting to his locker room, not putting Franklin in a situation to succeed, etc.

[Argo]

It's so hard to have the same atmosphere on a team from year to year when so many players don't return. I've said it before, but the league really needs to put some incentive in for free agents to re-sign with the own teams, and to me the most obvious way to do that is to have a portion of a re-signed player eligible for free agency not count against the cap. That way their current team can likely pay them more than any other team.

Words of wisdom.

[Argo57]

It's so hard to have the same atmosphere on a team from year to year when so many players don't return. I've said it before, but the league really needs to put some incentive in for free agents to re-sign with the own teams, and to me the most obvious way to do that is to have a portion of a re-signed player eligible for free agency not count against the cap. That way their current team can likely pay them more than any other team.

Look at the players that did not return from last year: Rico Murray, Owusa-Ansah, Mitchell White, Victor Butler, Devier Posey, Jeff Fuller (whether you liked him as a player never publicly stirred the you know what when he was demoted), Corey Watman. Add to that players that were let go (Lemon) or injured for most of the season, and it's a completely different team.

Very true, we now cheer for the uniform which are filled each season with interchangeable parts it seems.
CFL rosters back in the day had much more stability allowing you to cheer for the player as you were more familiar with them, now each off season becomes a game of musical chairs with most teams rosters and it kind of sucks IMO.

[AngeloV]

Very true, we now cheer for the uniform which are filled each season with interchangeable parts it seems.
CFL rosters back in the day had much more stability allowing you to cheer for the player as you were more familiar with them, now each off season becomes a game of musical chairs with most teams rosters and it kind of sucks IMO.

Agree it sucks, but it's not just the CFL. It happens in almost every sport now. NBA players sign contracts which give players the option to opt out now. I guess the NHL and MLB are a little different because somehow their unions allow teams to own full control of a player for like 7 years or so, but there are also plenty of players who move on an annual basis as teams sign player to 1 year contracts to fill out the bottom half of their rosters.. I kind of like that football players have more freedom, but as I said, players and teams may just need an extra little incentive in order to keep players where they are and not move every year.

[Argo57]

Agree it sucks, but it's not just the CFL. It happens in almost every sport now. NBA players sign contracts which give players the option to opt out now. I guess the NHL and MLB are a little different because somehow their unions allow teams to own full control of a player for like 7 years or so, but there are also plenty of players who move on an annual basis as teams sign player to 1 year contracts to fill out the bottom half of their rosters.. I kind of like that football players have more freedom, but as I said, players and teams may just need an extra little incentive in order to keep players where they are and not move every year.

Your suggestion makes sense.

[R.J]

I didn't know where to put this, but thought it was a tweet that would interest some.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Interesting quote from Popp on the Argos &#39;lack of speed&#39; at receiver, via Dan Ralph/Canadian Press: &quot;It&#39;s easy for media to say that because we never threw the ball downfield, that was never Marc&#39;s MO. There are people here who can get deep. We just didn&#39;t play that system.&quot;</p>&mdash; Jeff Krever (@jeffkrever) <a href="https://twitter.com/jeffkrever/status/1095750520453648390?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 13, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[BATKINSON001]

I didn't know where to put this, but thought it was a tweet that would interest some.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Interesting quote from Popp on the Argos 'lack of speed' at receiver, via Dan Ralph/Canadian Press: &quot;It's easy for media to say that because we never threw the ball downfield, that was never Marc's MO. There are people here who can get deep. We just didn't play that system.&quot;</p>&mdash; Jeff Krever (@jeffkrever) <a href="https://twitter.com/jeffkrever/status/1095750520453648390?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 13, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


And that’s why they sucked last year amongst other things.

[paulwoods13]

Altho, somehow in MT's first game with the Argos Ricky passed for 511 yards. He pushed the ball downfield -- a lot -- that day.

[R.J]

Altho, somehow in MT's first game with the Argos Ricky passed for 511 yards. He pushed the ball downfield -- a lot -- that day.
Answer: Jeff Reinebold as Hamilton's DC.

[Argo57]

Popp sure has been an open book in the last few days.

[ArgoRavi]

Altho, somehow in MT's first game with the Argos Ricky passed for 511 yards. He pushed the ball downfield -- a lot -- that day.

In 2017, Ricky Ray seemed to throw the deep ball whenever the Argos were backed up in their own end and it worked more often than not, including in the Grey Cup.

[john]

your sig should now include derel walker