What should the CFLPA be asking for in the next CBA?

[KCargosfan]

Here are my thoughts:

Salary Cap
(Currently $5.2 million)
2019: $5.75 million
2020: $5.9 million
2021: $6.05 million...

League minimum (this is arguably the most important)
(currently $54,000, or $3K a game) needs to go up to $62,000 for 2019, then rise $1,500 each year for the length of the contract.
2019: $62,000
2020: $63,500
2021: $65,000...

(Note: Considering the CBA will heavily influenced by veterans who make north of $80K, I full expect the league minimum to rise only to $58K and only increase in increments of $1K)

Maximum salary
This will never happen, but the CFLPA should ask that no player can make more than $525K annually. This prevents the majority of a cap increase going to the QBs. Currently, we are looking at Mike Reilly garnering a $600K per year deal if the cap rises a decent amount. I don't see this as a drastic request because how many players actually make more than $400K? Six?

Playoff pay
This seems to have stagnated.
I would jump it to
Division winner: $3,600
Division semifinal: $3,600
Division final: $4,100
Grey Cup loser: $10,000
Grey Cup winner: $18,500

Training Camp pay
Rookies: $525 per week
1-year vet: $575 per week
2-year vet: $675 per week
3+-year vet: $775 per week

Practice squad salary
(currently $750 a week)
$825 a week

Under this agreement, the minimum a player would make from training camp to a loss in the division semifinal would be: $67,175.

And under this agreement, a 3-year vet (who makes $65K) who wins the Grey Cup would make at least: $93,525.

[ArgoRavi]

I think that these figures are within reason, KCargosfan.

[paulwoods13]

The league would be pretty happy to end up with something like this, IMO. I think CFLPA will ask for a lot more, although how unified the PA will be remains an open question. There are too many cohorts (rookies/vets, NATs/INTs, stars/non-stars) with vastly different interests. The league has capitalized on this lack of unity in past bargaining rounds, and will no doubt be hoping to do so again this time. (For the record, I don't think there's any chance that the PA proposes or accepts a maximum salary.)

[KCargosfan]

The league would be pretty happy to end up with something like this, IMO. I think CFLPA will ask for a lot more, although how unified the PA will be remains an open question. There are too many cohorts (rookies/vets, NATs/INTs, stars/non-stars) with vastly different interests. The league has capitalized on this lack of unity in past bargaining rounds, and will no doubt be hoping to do so again this time. (For the record, I don't think there's any chance that the PA proposes or accepts a maximum salary.)

I'm not sure the CFLPA can get overly greedy. You're likely looking at Montreal, Toronto and possibly BC having lost money this season. I doubt Bob Young is making a ton of money in Hamilton (though hosting a playoff game should help), and Calgary and Edmonton probably aren't enormously profitable, either (again, Calgary hosting the WF should help a bunch, assuming Winterpeg fans travel). While it would be nice if the league minimum could bounce up to $75K, I'm not sure that's fiscally a reality, especially as attendance seems to have dipped the last few years (also, it's not a great sign Sask didn't sell out its playoff game).

Also, I'm expecting the league to again offer an "incentive" (bribe is a better term) to sign a CBA like it did last time, where players get an immediate cash bonus ranging from $1.5K for rookies to $7K for old vets for signing the CBA. That's a shrewd move by the league and imo one that helps keep the league minimum down.

[paulwoods13]

CFLPA won't end up getting rich in these negots, but seems very unlikely to start with a proposal as low as you have suggested. I could see them settling for something like that in the end, but it won't be a starting point on their end, regardless of the health of the franchises. Unions always ask for a lot, and owners/companies always offer a little; why would this time be any different?

[KCargosfan]

CFLPA won't end up getting rich in these negots, but seems very unlikely to start with a proposal as low as you have suggested. I could see them settling for something like that in the end, but it won't be a starting point on their end, regardless of the health of the franchises. Unions always ask for a lot, and owners/companies always offer a little; why would this time be any different?

Agreed. I perhaps should have said "looking" instead of "asking," though like I mentioned, I'm not sure they'll be asking for much of a bump in the minimum. But they'll undoubtedly ask for a higher cap.

[argolio]

Those proposed annual salary cap jumps are a lot higher than anything they've done in recent years, if memory serves. Should be an interesting negotiation.

[KCargosfan]

Those proposed annual salary cap jumps are a lot higher than anything they've done in recent years, if memory serves. Should be an interesting negotiation.

I think in '14 the players originally proposed a $6 million cap, which basically got laughed out of the room.

[AngeloV]

Great thoughts KC.

I for one am a proponent of increasing the minimum salary and adding a max salary. I don't think any player in this league should be making more than 350k and the minimum should be at 80k. The only players that would have a problem with this are the QB's, and frankly, too bad. I don't see anywhere else they can play and make that type of salary, unless they were fortunate to make an NFL roster. Bottom line, the minimum salary has to go up especially to compete with the new leagues. The only way to do that is stop paying QB's 5-10 times what other players in the league make.

[doubleblue]

Here are my thoughts:

Salary Cap
(Currently $5.2 million)
2019: $5.75 million
2020: $5.9 million
2021: $6.05 million...

League minimum (this is arguably the most important)
(currently $54,000, or $3K a game) needs to go up to $62,000 for 2019, then rise $1,500 each year for the length of the contract.
2019: $62,000
2020: $63,500
2021: $65,000...

(Note: Considering the CBA will heavily influenced by veterans who make north of $80K, I full expect the league minimum to rise only to $58K and only increase in increments of $1K)

Maximum salary
This will never happen, but the CFLPA should ask that no player can make more than $525K annually. This prevents the majority of a cap increase going to the QBs. Currently, we are looking at Mike Reilly garnering a $600K per year deal if the cap rises a decent amount. I don't see this as a drastic request because how many players actually make more than $400K? Six?

Playoff pay
This seems to have stagnated.
I would jump it to
Division winner: $3,600
Division semifinal: $3,600
Division final: $4,100
Grey Cup loser: $10,000
Grey Cup winner: $18,500

Training Camp pay
Rookies: $525 per week
1-year vet: $575 per week
2-year vet: $675 per week
3+-year vet: $775 per week

Practice squad salary
(currently $750 a week)
$825 a week

Under this agreement, the minimum a player would make from training camp to a loss in the division semifinal would be: $67,175.

And under this agreement, a 3-year vet (who makes $65K) who wins the Grey Cup would make at least: $93,525.

Yes those are very reasonable numbers IMO. As you say the CFLPA is run by older higher paid players (quite often OLinemen). They look after themselves just like most Politicians are Lawyers and make the laws for their benefit. I wonder how much teams are paying on average for all these players stashed on the 6 game injury list at full salary. The question could be are they all necessary as against the argument it creates more jobs.

[OV Argo]

Great thoughts KC.

I for one am a proponent of increasing the minimum salary and adding a max salary. I don't think any player in this league should be making more than 350k and the minimum should be at 80k. The only players that would have a problem with this are the QB's, and frankly, too bad. I don't see anywhere else they can play and make that type of salary, unless they were fortunate to make an NFL roster. Bottom line, the minimum salary has to go up especially to compete with the new leagues. The only way to do that is stop paying QB's 5-10 times what other players in the league make.


Bang-on AV; i agree with what you are saying, along with KC arguing that increasing league minimum salary is most important.

[doubleblue]

Bang-on AV; i agree with what you are saying, along with KC arguing that increasing league minimum salary is most important.

I agree but the GOB's running the CFLPA are mostly all or were Canadian offensive linemen. They got to protect those boys salaries.

[OV Argo]

I agree but the GOB's running the CFLPA are mostly all or were Canadian offensive linemen. They got to protect those boys salaries.




The CFLPA doesn't force CFL GMs to over-pay for a few veteran Canadian O-linemen; just like it doesn't force CFL GMs to ignore Canadian QBs and pay big bucks to an over-rated stiff like Kevin Glenn to be constantly on a CFL roster.

[doubleblue]

The CFLPA doesn't force CFL GMs to over-pay for a few veteran Canadian O-linemen; just like it doesn't force CFL GMs to ignore Canadian QBs and pay big bucks to an over-rated stiff like Kevin Glenn to be constantly on a CFL roster.

Of course they don't. But the GM's are forced to pay the big bucks to good Canadian players because of the ratio and the lack of Canadian players of like talent. I doubt if Kevin Glenn in his back up role makes any where near what the top Canadian offensive linemen make.

[KCargosfan]

Great thoughts KC.

I for one am a proponent of increasing the minimum salary and adding a max salary. I don't think any player in this league should be making more than 350k and the minimum should be at 80k. The only players that would have a problem with this are the QB's, and frankly, too bad. I don't see anywhere else they can play and make that type of salary, unless they were fortunate to make an NFL roster. Bottom line, the minimum salary has to go up especially to compete with the new leagues. The only way to do that is stop paying QB's 5-10 times what other players in the league make.

Definitely agree.
Who is the highest non-paid QB and what does he make? (Elimimian at something like $220K? Is there a Canadian defensive player I'm forgetting that makes $240K-ish?)
The QBs are the only ones over $300K. And like you said, where else are they going to make that kind of cash?

[paulwoods13]

The QBs are the only ones over $300K. And like you said, where else are they going to make that kind of cash?

There are two new leagues that I'm sure would love a crack at guys like Reilly and Mitchell.

[AngeloV]

There are two new leagues that I'm sure would love a crack at guys like Reilly and Mitchell.

I don't think they will be paying that type of money on a per year basis to anyone, and if they did, they would likely target former NFL QB's like every other American spring league has done in the past. I stand by my thoughts that it's bad business for a league to throw 10% or so of the salary cap at 1 of 46 players. The league would become more attractive to all new players if they can make at least 80k rather than 50.

[KCargosfan]

There are two new leagues that I'm sure would love a crack at guys like Reilly and Mitchell.

Sure, but those new leagues won't be paying anything close to $350K for players. Oh, and those leagues will crash financially like every other spring league in history has.

As an American, I don't have any interest watching football after the Super Bowl. I'm not ready for football again until the CFL regular season starts up.

[jerrym]

Redblacks' GM Marcel Desjardins has gotten in a war of words with the CFLPA over the salary cap. He also discussed the threat of the new AAF league.


“For me, my approach is going to be to try and secure and get as many guys back as we can as early as possible under the assumption – I have a pretty good sense that the cap isn’t going to move a whole lot, if at all. That’s how I need to proceed. If for some reason the cap does go up a little bit, then so be it, but if it goes up it will only be marginally and it won’t impact the salary of any one single player it will be just a big picture type of thing,” Desjardins said.
“What’s disappointing about this whole dynamic is because of one-year contracts, there is just so much turnover on the roster from one year to the next and it makes it extremely difficult for fans to identify with players. We obviously want to maintain that continuity not only from a football perspective but so their fans can continue to identify with those guys. That’s something that’s lacking in our league right now because there’s so much movement. I have a pretty good sense that the salary cap is not going to move a whole lot, if at all. If it goes up, it’ll be marginally and won’t impact the salary of any one single player,” Desjardins said.

Sportsnet’s Arash Madani – a former 3Down contributor – took those comments to CFLPA executive director Brian Ramsay, who promptly unleashed both barrels.
“I’m not sure why the GM in Ottawa would choose to comment on impending CBA negotiations. We are unaware that he would be part of the CFL’s bargaining committee. However, Mr. Desjardins does bring up a good point in terms of one-year contracts,” Ramsay wrote in a message to Madani. “Right now, players would consider every contract in our league to be only a one-year commitment as the teams are able to release a player at any time without salary or benefit protection. I am confident our members would be willing to commit to a team for multiple years if the level of commitment was shared by both parties.”

Ramsay then took a shot at the pay disparity between players and their football operations overlords, while pointing out that contracts for coaches and general managers are guaranteed.
“Seeing as most management salaries are 4-5 times the average player salary, while also being guaranteed we would be happy to dissect those numbers with CFL management in a solutioned-based effort to find continuity across our league,” Ramsay said.

While Desjardins’ comments on the cap garnered the most attention there were a couple of other interesting tidbits including another confirmation that bonuses are not being paid to players – including those signing extensions right now.
“We cannot give players any money between now and the time the CBA is ratified. For them, they need to understand whether they sign a contract today for 2019 or they sign a contract in April, under either scenario they are not getting any money until the CBA is ratified. There’s not a lot of downside in terms of upfront money whether you signed today or not,” Desjardins said.
Desjardins said players who are looking for a big raise may find themselves on the outside looking in next spring.

“A lot of players may decide to wait until the CBA gets ratified before they commit to signing a contract. If we look back to 2014 when this last occurred, we were in training camp when the CBA was ratified so there’s a problem there with the timeline from a player’s perspective if they’re going to wait,” he said.
“If they are expecting a big jump in what the cap number is going to be, that’s their prerogative to wait. It’s not how we’re going to approach it and it’s not going to change our dynamic as to what we feel the value of a player is for this league and for this team,” he said. “I think some of the players who are more role guys understand what their value is. Some of the guys who are more key contributors, they may feel they warrant a significant raise but if we decide to do that, and that’s a big ‘if’ that’s going to have to sacrifice somebody else along the way.”

Desjardins also addressed the issue of the Alliance of American Football and whether CFL players who become free agents in February might try and play in the league this season.
“That league goes to training camp in January. Our players’ contracts don’t expire until early February so those players wouldn’t be eligible to sign in that League until it had already started its season,” Desjardins said. “Most of the time, once you’ve gone through a training camp you’re going to move forward with those players, I don’t think they’d be signing a whole bunch of new guys who become free agents in the CFL but you never know. I’m sure there would be some exceptions but I don’t think it would be an across-the-board thing,”


http://3downnation.com/2018/11/29/cflpa-puts-redblacks-gm-blast-salary-cap-comments/

[doubleblue]

Here's a comment below from the Rider Main Forum by CFLFAN1. I like it. I believe he made a mistake in how many starting Internationals there are now. Already at 17, and that leaves six spots for back up QB's and designated players for a total of 23 Internationals. But it open the door for the Canadian QB for at least a back up role. Don't know if the CFLPA ruling class would like it though. Might level the pay scale some what.





While the Bombers joined the $30M+ revenue club last year, most clubs generate closer to $20M...so we don't want to get too crazy spending more money unnecessarily, but I believe player salaries should be increased (especially with the competition of two new leagues.)

- I'd bump up the salary cap to $6.0M maximum ($5.4M minimum). Set the minimum salary at $62,000 (that's a 15% increase from 2018).

- I'd propose National QB's should be included in the ratio; increase the number of Internationals to 17 (from 16); increase the number of Designated Internationals to 6 (from 4); eliminate the 3 QB roster = 21 Nationals + 23 Internationals.

- A minimum of 3 Nationals should be on the field at all times (offence and defence with 4 on one side = 7 National starters)

- All contracts should be for a minimum of 1 + 1 option year (rookies and veterans). Players can tryout in the NFL Option Window in the off-season before their option year.

- Teams can match the offer for their free agents, retaining the player's rights.

[R.J]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/sEULHciNa7tUQ/giphy.gif?cid=3640f6095c6872876a6233306328655f


TBH, I don't see the cap going up by anything more than $400k. League minimum could go up to at least $70k - can thank the AAF and XFL for that.

[john]

Sure, but those new leagues won't be paying anything close to $350K for players. Oh, and those leagues will crash financially like every other spring league in history has.

As an American, I don't have any interest watching football after the Super Bowl. I'm not ready for football again until the CFL regular season starts up.

i just watched an interview from last yr w/ ebsersol, co founder of aaf, an he alluded to tv viewership and betting dropping $ off a cliff after superbowl
i think there is a link to gambling

[CFLfan]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/sEULHciNa7tUQ/giphy.gif?cid=3640f6095c6872876a6233306328655f


TBH, I don't see the cap going up by anything more than $400k. League minimum could go up to at least $70k - can thank the AAF and XFL for that.

A league minimum going up to $70k might make sense. If the cap right now is $4.6M that is $100k average per player, if they brought in a $70k minimum it would mean no more $700k per year for QBs. The CFL could bring in the $70k min now but some players would have to take a cut

[AngeloV]

Sounds to me like the most important thing on the PA's agenda is getting better insurance for injured players, and that is something they definitely deserve.