2019 Season Tickets

[argofan81]

I just took a look at my online account today and reviewed the invoice for my 2019 season tickets. A few things I noticed:

- It appears that my season tickets have increased in price from last year (my seats were $255 per seat and are now $273 per seat -- an increase of almost $20/seat so not too significant). You can find the 2018 pricing structure at www.argonauts.ca/2018-new-season-tickets/ so that you are able to do your own price comparisons.
- Apparently this is "early bird" pricing and if not renewed by Dec. 19th, this pricing is no longer in effect; one assumes that prices will be even higher?
- Once proceeding to the payment section, there is an option to apply a $60 credit -- does anyone know if this credit is the early bird discount or if it is our refund for the missed 2018 playoff game?
- There is also an option to pay in full, pay in 2 installments or pay in 5 installments
- No mention yet of the "benefits" for the 2019 season; Has anyone addressed the one gift per account issue (it is an issue for me as I have two seats on my account for convenience reasons however one seat belongs to a second individual and is repaid to me -- I've been thinking of dropping my 2 seats to 1 and getting a second account for the other individual so that they too can receive the gift for the seat that they paid for)?

[AngeloV]

I just renewed mine and applied the credit. My tweet below sums up my feelings. :D

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just renewed my Argos season tickets online and can’t believe how little I paid for 4 tockets. Saved 25% my already really cheap tickets by taking advantage of early bird on line method. Anyone that complains about perks this season can kiss my ass.</p>&mdash; Angelo V (@AngVarv) <a href="https://twitter.com/AngVarv/status/1070759460166082561?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mightygoose]

The Credit is for the missed playoff game.

I don't see a seating chart yet for next season but it looks like they changed some categories. We are in section 125 which is gold at 408.00 per seat in 2018. It's 576.00 per seat in 2019 which looks to be the same as section 124 which was mainly platinum which was 561.00 last year. I'm not bothered as these sections have always sold well. They we're 699.00 in 2016 and 2017.

Based on the OOS ticketmaster map, it looks like the lower west behind the visitor's bench will be considered gold (424.00) so that pricing looks more in line from demand.

Perks look the same. No pre season game which isn't a loss to me.

There will be auto renewal options for 2020 onwards. Details TBA.

[mchesher03]

Section 125 here – the price ($576 per season ticket) doesn’t bother me to be honest (as previously mentioned, used to be $700/season ticket). What irks me a little is the “shift” of the platinum section to include us – feels a little sneaky to me for what it’s worth. Three years ago I made a conscious decision to sit in the golds and based on duration, got pretty good “gold” level seats which now have become the outskirts of platinum. Guess in fairness I’m always free to move but I like our section – ah well it is what it is.

Kind of in the dark about price points in the stadium to be honest – guess we can patch it together based on the renewals of fans here though.

[mchesher03]

My error re: price points - my outdated browser didn't display the seating chart before.

[gilthethrill]

I'm back baby!!!!

[Will]

I renewed today as well and my credit took care of the cost of the renewal in its entirety with some left over.
I am considering moving seats, and I was somewhat frustrated that they couldn't take care of that for me today.
Their explanation made sense though -- the section I want is relatively busy and they said it would make sense for me to wait a bit to see if there are some people who don't renew -- therefore opening up seats in that section.

[Neely2005]

Thanks, I was wondering why I didn't see a refund of the playoff tickets. I will try processing it now and see what happens.

[Argonut1996]

First post on this site and I look forward to discussing our favourite team and the CFL. I just renewed my seasons tickets in section 224 and with my credits from last year only paid $170 for 2 seats. I am more than pleased and hope the Argo's marketing team can get the news out how reasonable the prices now are.

[Bill G]

Renewal is in!

Section 225
* Reasonably priced tickets: Check
* $48 credit from the playoffs: Check
* Pay over 5 installments: Check

See you at the games and Go Argos!

[Argos1983]

When I look at my invoice it states a different price than the one posted online as the "early bird price" in my account --- mine were invoiced at $152 each instead of $202 each as per the websites listing of "package price" through the map on account manager (Section 221).....is the $50 of savings per that I am being offered because I am being an early "renewer"? Is that what other people are being offered as well? what is the early bird price on 219/227 which I see posted as $172 each?

I am also a STH for other MLSE properties, so am I getting an additional 25% off of that number too and the money back from my playoff refund ($152 x 25% (MLSE discount) = $114 - $18 per playoff ticket so a total of $96 each?) --- are others getting the same types of multiple discounts applied (early bird discount and MLSE STH discount)?

Thanks!

[jerrym]

First post on this site and I look forward to discussing our favourite team and the CFL. I just renewed my seasons tickets in section 224 and with my credits from last year only paid $170 for 2 seats. I am more than pleased and hope the Argo's marketing team can get the news out how reasonable the prices now are.

Welcome on board. Hopefully, next year is better than 2018.

[argofan81]

When I look at my invoice it states a different price than the one posted online as the "early bird price" in my account --- mine were invoiced at $152 each instead of $202 each as per the websites listing of "package price" through the map on account manager (Section 221).....is the $50 of savings per that I am being offered because I am being an early "renewer"? Is that what other people are being offered as well? what is the early bird price on 219/227 which I see posted as $172 each?

I am also a STH for other MLSE properties, so am I getting an additional 25% off of that number too and the money back from my playoff refund ($152 x 25% (MLSE discount) = $114 - $18 per playoff ticket so a total of $96 each?) --- are others getting the same types of multiple discounts applied (early bird discount and MLSE STH discount)?

Thanks!

I'm not sure why you were only invoiced at $152 each. The map clearly says early bird pricing and I know that for me, the map sows my seats at $273 each which is what I was invoiced for. Perhaps the $50 discount is your 25% discount for being a STH for other MLSE -- I.e. $202 * 25% = about $50). Would be interested to know what your $50 discount is if you find out.

[Argos1983]

I'm not sure why you were only invoiced at $152 each. The map clearly says early bird pricing and I know that for me, the map sows my seats at $273 each which is what I was invoiced for. Perhaps the $50 discount is your 25% discount for being a STH for other MLSE -- I.e. $202 * 25% = about $50). Would be interested to know what your $50 discount is if you find out.

I thought that may be it but then I thought that apparently "early bird pricing " would be a whopping $2 less than last years prices also seems wrong too.....plus if it was a 25% discount why would I not be billed at $303 instead of $304 overall.....seemed weird, as there was no indication of my discount being applied on the invoice....

[lazycro]

I think my pricing is down $2? I think it was supposed to be $204 for Navy and it's $202?

[Mightygoose]

2019 seating chart on the website now

https://www.argonauts.ca/new-membership/

As expected section 125 (where I am) was gold last year is now a Platinum hence the large price increase. On the other hand section 122 behind the visitor's bench was a Platinum last year and is now a gold so anyone there would see nice price reduction.

Other smaller change is on the east side. Sections 105 and 110 which are now all silver. Last year the back 5-10 rows we're navy.

Hopefully the increase after early bird is not too much and they have a strong campaign afterwards.

[Argo57]

2019 seating chart on the website now

https://www.argonauts.ca/new-membership/

As expected section 125 (where I am) was gold last year is now a Platinum hence the large price increase. On the other hand section 122 behind the visitor's bench was a Platinum last year and is now a gold so anyone there would see nice price reduction.

Other smaller change is on the east side. Sections 105 and 110 which are now all silver. Last year the back 5-10 rows we're navy.

Hopefully the increase after early bird is not too much and they have a strong campaign afterwards.

We moved to Section#122 to take advantage of the price reduction and experience another vantage point.
Roll on 2019!

[Argo57]

I'm back baby!!!!

That a boy, glad to see you back full time!
Now stay away from that AngeloV guy, he’s a bad influence😛

[GregR]

I paid $1874 for two Club seats last year and early bird is $2222 so a 18.5% increase unless I am missing something.

[AngeloV]

I certainly hope everyone that renewed checked the box to apply the instant credit. I know I did, and my invoice went down by roughly 25% when I diid (from $688 to $515).

[GregR]

The credit is our playoff refund correct? So it is not an actual discount on 2019 prices.

[Saugonaut]

Yup that's what the credit is for. I've renewed and am hyped up for the 2019 season!!! My2nd as a season ticket hodler!

My wife and kids are pumped to, they loved going lst year!

[Saugonaut]

Hear, hear!! Secton 225 and loved being a season ticket holder last year.



First post on this site and I look forward to discussing our favourite team and the CFL. I just renewed my seasons tickets in section 224 and with my credits from last year only paid $170 for 2 seats. I am more than pleased and hope the Argo's marketing team can get the news out how reasonable the prices now are.

[gilthethrill]

That a boy, glad to see you back full time!
Now stay away from that AngeloV guy, he’s a bad influence

A thorn in my side to say the least. ..

[BATKINSON001]

I'm not sure why you were only invoiced at $152 each. The map clearly says early bird pricing and I know that for me, the map sows my seats at $273 each which is what I was invoiced for. Perhaps the $50 discount is your 25% discount for being a STH for other MLSE -- I.e. $202 * 25% = about $50). Would be interested to know what your $50 discount is if you find out.

still reading the rest of the posts, but what map? I am in the renewals section of argonauts.ca and there's no map.

Edit: Nevermind, found it.

I am concerned that the $172 I paid today for my seat in 116, on the front row (seat 16) (having downsized from 2 seats in row 11 due to finances), is only the early bird pricing, could they jack it up to $200 by April?

[AngeloV]

That a boy, glad to see you back full time!
Now stay away from that AngeloV guy, he’s a bad influence😛


A thorn in my side to say the least. ..

Well...I never...

[AngeloV]

Maybe some of you aren't understanding the invoice. This is what I experienced:

For the record, the listed price on my seats in sec 227 was 172 each. After ticking the box to receive the instant credit, the price went down to 128.75 each. I chose the 2 payment opting of 257.50 each, and my registered first payment of which I paid 257.50 for shows as paying 430.50. That is the 257.50 I paid, plus the 173 credit the early bird provided. I know have 1 last payment coming out for 257.50 and then my 4 seats are all paid up. 515 paid by me. 173 early bird credit.

[lazycro]

Shame I didn't get a box to check off for an instant credit

[1971GreyCup]

A perk for early season ticket holder renewals was a daily draw starting December 6th. First draw was "travel with the team for two." Today should be the third draw. Earlier you renew the more draws you participate in. Anyone seen the winners of day 1,2 & 3 posted anywhere!

[ArgoZ]

A perk for early season ticket holder renewals was a daily draw starting December 6th. First draw was "travel with the team for two." Today should be the third draw. Earlier you renew the more draws you participate in. Anyone seen the winners of day 1,2 & 3 posted anywhere!

I would like to see the winners too. Would make the contest feel a little more “real” to me and it would be a great marketing opportunity.

[argofan81]

Maybe some of you aren't understanding the invoice. This is what I experienced:

For the record, the listed price on my seats in sec 227 was 172 each. After ticking the box to receive the instant credit, the price went down to 128.75 each. I chose the 2 payment opting of 257.50 each, and my registered first payment of which I paid 257.50 for shows as paying 430.50. That is the 257.50 I paid, plus the 173 credit the early bird provided. I know have 1 last payment coming out for 257.50 and then my 4 seats are all paid up. 515 paid by me. 173 early bird credit.

I thought that the instant credit was the money in our accounts for the missed 2018 playoff game, NOT a credit for renewing early. Is this not correct?

[Shatto]

Went to renew ST's on Account Mgr ---shows one seat Sec223/Row11/Seat37 which is correct. It also shows QTY : 2 but doesn't actually state second seat is 38? Called personal rep Thurs to confirm the seats before paying invoice. No return call Thurs or Friday.

Anyone else having similar problem or is it reserved for someone who has season tickets for over 50 years?

Also can anyone clarify if discount is for playoff we missed or simply an early discount?

[AngeloV]

I thought that the instant credit was the money in our accounts for the missed 2018 playoff game, NOT a credit for renewing early. Is this not correct?

Definitely not. the face value on my playoff ticket show at $29, which would have put my credit at $116 and not $173.

[Argonut1996]

I received quite a large credit of $678 which included the price reduction last April (as I had already paid in full for the 2017 season) and the playoff game. It appears many credits vary as some many have used it for additional tickets or other events through the year.

[Neely2005]

https://i.postimg.cc/NGy1Z4N7/bmo-field-pricing.jpg



So the prices listed here are the Early Bird Prices, correct?

[Neely2005]

Definitely not. the face value on my playoff ticket show at $29, which would have put my credit at $116 and not $173.

Face Value on Season Tickets is higher than what we actually pay though.

[1971GreyCup]

I spoke with someone in ticket sales and they said that the early bird draws have started. They just haven’t publicized the winners yet.

[ArgofanIan]

renewed mine today....looking forward to next year... Go ARRGOS !!!

[GregR]

I got a hold of a sales rep. The credit is for the non-playoff game. The prices quoted as of now are early bird discount prices. They will go up. Club seats did go up almost 20% based on early bird pricing so the increase will be even higher for regular priced purchases. They said that Club seats went up more than others to bring them in line with other similar sports etc.

[GregR]

I renewed my Club seats anyway. Worth it for no washroom lineups LOL

[Neely2005]

I got a hold of a sales rep. The credit is for the non-playoff game. The prices quoted as of now are early bird discount prices. They will go up. Club seats did go up almost 20% based on early bird pricing so the increase will be even higher for regular priced purchases. They said that Club seats went up more than others to bring them in line with other similar sports etc.

Thanks for clarifying. So my season tickets went from $159 last season to early bird pricing of $172. Which means that the regular price will be even higher. It seems like an odd strategy to raise prices after a terrible season when you had thousands of empty seats at every game.

[Joe Barnes]

Thanks for clarifying. So my season tickets went from $159 last season to early bird pricing of $172. Which means that the regular price will be even higher. It seems like an odd strategy to raise prices after a terrible season when you had thousands of empty seats at every game.

Renewed mine last week. For section 225 the cost was $202 but when I clicked the box, I used my credit from last year's non playoff game to bring my total down to $178.50. That is an amazing price for a season of football. At the time, I just assumed most pricing would be similarly held in line from last year (which, for me, 2018 was listed at $204 though I only paid $199). Now I'm reading posts like yours that seem to indicate a price increase is coming if you don't renew in the early bird period. If this comes to pass, I have to wonder at the sanity of those in charge after the team's record last season and the attendance numbers since the move to BMO.

[Neely2005]

Renewed mine last week. For section 225 the cost was $202 but when I clicked the box, I used my credit from last year's non playoff game to bring my total down to $178.50. That is an amazing price for a season of football. At the time, I just assumed most pricing would be similarly held in line from last year (which, for me, 2018 was listed at $204 though I only paid $199). Now I'm reading posts like yours that seem to indicate a price increase is coming if you don't renew in the early bird period. If this comes to pass, I have to wonder at the sanity of those in charge after the team's record last season and the attendance numbers since the move to BMO.

My price went up even with the Early Bird pricing:

2018 Regular: $159
2019 Early Bird: $172
2019 Regular: ? (My guess is $199)

[ArgoZ]

Prices were too low last year (yes that's possible). This years early bird, with a minor increase, is still too low for the Argos to be profitable. Look around the league, there is no better pricing than the Argonauts. Eventually, with demand (which will also be a good thing) prices will increase even more. We, super fans have to take advantage and enjoy these prices with no bitching. I sit right behind the Argos sideline for $273 a season, including a playoff game. That's comparatively, unbelievable.

[Neely2005]

Prices were too low last year (yes that's possible). This years early bird, with a minor increase, is still too low for the Argos to be profitable. Look around the league, there is no better pricing than the Argonauts. Eventually, with demand (which will also be a good thing) prices will increase even more. We, super fans have to take advantage and enjoy these prices with no bitching. I sit right behind the Argos sideline for $273 a season, including a playoff game. That's comparatively, unbelievable.

It seems to me that it would be wise to build the demand before you increase the prices. If my guess of $199 turns out to be right that will be a 25% increase in 1 year. After a last place season with poor attendance.

[Mike Hogan]

Just for comparison... Cheapest tickets in Saskatchewan are end zones at $311, $239 for kids/seniors. End zone in BC is $299. Bombers end zone is $350, nosebleed sideline endzone $254. Alouettes end zone $199. The Argos are offering the lowest priced tickets in the league. Sounds like a deal to me.

[AngeloV]

I can't believe people are still whining on here (usual suspects of course). This has become the site of some of the most entitled fans in the CFL and a real turn off. Time to take a break again.

[Argo57]

Just for comparison... Cheapest tickets in Saskatchewan are end zones at $311, $239 for kids/seniors. End zone in BC is $299. Bombers end zone is $350, nosebleed endzone $254. Alouettes end zone $199. The Argos are offering the lowest priced tickets in the league. Sounds like a deal to me.


Compare with Ticat prices below, Argo seats are very well priced.

http://assets-ticats.s3.amazonaws.com/app/uploads/2018/10/15152615/2019-Ticket-pricing_v5.jpg

[Neely2005]

I know that it's difficult for some people to believe but it is possible to have a discussion without it being whining. We all want the team to succeed and offering constructive criticism of the team and it's strategies shouldn't cause such dismay.

[Mike Hogan]

Wasn't the purpose of my post...I didn't realize that Argos tickets were the lowest in the league until a meeting last week. Just sharing the info.

[doubleblue]

I can't believe people are still whining on here (usual suspects of course). This has become the site of some of the most entitled fans in the CFL and a real turn off. Time to take a break again.

I always hate to see a thread started on Season Tickets.

[Neely2005]

I always hate to see a thread started on Season Tickets.

If the topic doesn't interest you then why bother posting in it?

For a Discussion Board some people certainly seem to get bent out of shape when people discuss things from a different perspective than their own.

[AngeloV]

I know that it's difficult for some people to believe but it is possible to have a discussion without it being whining. We all want the team to succeed and offering constructive criticism of the team and it's strategies shouldn't cause such dismay.

Argos ticket prices are at a ridiculous low level right now. To me, any complaints at all about the pricing is whining. If you feel differently, then that's your choice. My tickets, even if they are at the $199 level, are over $100 less than the comparable seats I had in the dome, and we even had to fork up additional cash for our playoff tickets if there was a playoff game.

As far as the playoff game rebate, I see it differently than most. I consider the price I pay for my season tickets to be just for the regular season, and any playoff ticket to be a free bonus. With that viewpoint, I wouldn't even care if I got a rebate for the lack of a playoff game the previous year.

Sorry if you get offended here, but to me, these complaints are 100% unwarranted, thus my use of the word whining.

[Neely2005]

Argos ticket prices are at a ridiculous low level right now. To me, any complaints at all about the pricing is whining. If you feel differently, then that's your choice. My tickets, even if they are at the $199 level, are over $100 less than the comparable seats I had in the dome, and we even had to fork up additional cash for our playoff tickets if there was a playoff game.

As far as the playoff game rebate, I see it differently than most. I consider the price I pay for my season tickets to be just for the regular season, and any playoff ticket to be a free bonus. With that viewpoint, I wouldn't even care if I got a rebate for the lack of a playoff game the previous year.

Sorry if you get offended here, but to me, these complaints are 100% unwarranted, thus my use of the word whining.

Not offended in the least, just have a different opinion than you. Also not whining, just discussing.

[argotom]

Argos ticket prices are at a ridiculous low level right now. To me, any complaints at all about the pricing is whining. If you feel differently, then that's your choice. My tickets, even if they are at the $199 level, are over $100 less than the comparable seats I had in the dome, and we even had to fork up additional cash for our playoff tickets if there was a playoff game.

As far as the playoff game rebate, I see it differently than most. I consider the price I pay for my season tickets to be just for the regular season, and any playoff ticket to be a free bonus. With that viewpoint, I wouldn't even care if I got a rebate for the lack of a playoff game the previous year.

Sorry if you get offended here, but to me, these complaints are 100% unwarranted, thus my use of the word whining.
Absolutely agree with you.
I have been saying this every year.
For the best sport entertainment value, you can take in the entire year for less than some teams charge for one game.
And for me, that is a crime that very few talk about.

[Argos1983]

I agree that the prices are reasonable (it's taken them a few years to get there, but they finally did in my opinion) - but as for "entertainment value" that is up to the market to decide, and clearly they have - the Argos are considered an "afterthought" by most, I could not give my tickets away last year or either of the two years before that either; I've never had that problem with Leafs or Raptors tickets - even when the teams were bad, within one or two phone calls, someone was happy to go and even pay me for the seats (Jays tickets had no value last year, as the market for them is still based on success - without it - 800,000+ less seats sold last year, biggest drop in MLB) - I have season seats for TFC as well, and at a $20-$25 price point (and especially if free) I've never had a problem finding someone to use my seats - that's the "value" they have in the market place; when they were successful the previous two seasons, the value went way up of course, but even when they weren't very good, they still had some value in the marketplace....the Argos (good or bad teams -see 1996-1997 and the lack of sales/interest in attendance numbers) for most of the last 2+ decades have never had that "value" to the average consumer (not counting the few thousand CFL diehards) in the marketplace.....

Comparing the "entertainment value" of an Argos ticket in Toronto to the value of a Saskatchewan Roughriders ticket in Regina is a bit of a red herring --- the cost in Toronto for entertainment is high in a city like Toronto so the Argos price looks relatively meager in comparison; I would suggest the Roughriders ticket cost relative to the market size can be (and is) priced much higher though in Regina, as the demand is way more likely to be there due to the relevance of the team in the marketplace (at least these days), as being the only "Pro" sports team in town with much fewer entertainment options. It's like saying Leafs ticket prices are too high --- not according to what the market will bear these days they aren't (who cares if a Panthers or a Coyotes seat is way cheaper in Florida or Arizona? they price it at what the market will bear) - --- if the Argos could sell tickets for more money they would - they are not a charity - the fact that they have drastically reduced pricing should tell us all something; there simply is no real demand for the seats --- the number of people willing to spend $30+ a seat in Toronto on a football game is very, very low (especially relative to our market size)....I would bet that the bulk of ST are sold in the three lowest price ranges (Silver, Navy, Light Blue which is less than $30 a game) and the walk-ups are mostly discounted seats through group sales, and other discounted tickets through various outlets like Groupon (and the like), or even discounted by the Argos themselves as the season goes along to sometimes lower than what a ST would pay (!!), as was the case many, many times last year.....

If I offered the average sports fan in Toronto the choice of going to one Leafs (or Raptors) game in a seat for $200 or 10 Argos games for the same $200 I would bet I find more takers for the Leafs (or Raptors) game than the 10 Argos games --- on an Argos message board that may sound outrageous but the Argos need to sell to the people not on these boards (ie. not us, and even some of us (including me) are getting frustrated with this team), if they ever want to see 20,000-25,000 paying customers a game on a regular basis -

For all of the excuses I hear as to why people don't go to games (stadium is not convenient for 905ers, weather, team isn't good, considered "minor league" by the average fan, etc.) - if TFC can get that many to come down to BMO (avg 26,000+) in what is perceived as a "minor league" by most (and last year they were crap and they still drew 23,000+ on a Tuesday in February (I was there and there were that many people in the Stadium that night!), and again that many in the building in September/October when the season was clearly "over" and the playoffs were out of reach - and at a much higher average ticket cost too), than the Argos simply don't have any excuses anymore as to why they can't draw 20K+ too - except for the sad reality that the market simply does not find them interesting enough most of the time to go down to BMO and watch the games in person.....and frankly, I've bought in again with seasons the last three years at BMO to try to give this team a chance (again!), and didn't find them that interesting (a fluke Grey Cup from a 9-9 team sandwiched between a 5 and 4 win season?!) most of the time either to compel me to want to go to BMO to watch them; I could simply buy seats when I wanted to go and spend less money overall as a result - the "value" for ST simply is not there for me - giving the CFL my $400 for a pair of ST seems like an act of charity more than anything else, so I've decided to stop donating this year; I will still support the Argos and go to a game here or there if I find them interesting enough to do so --- sadly, I think that is where most people's opinions lie these days with this team, if they even have an opinion.....

The pricing is not the problem (finally!) - the product on the field (and off it?!), is simply not compelling enough to make 20-25K want to spend even $20-$30 to watch it is the problem (and lack of winning is not the only reason sadly, it would help, but it's much, much more than that)....ask someone in Toronto to name you 5 Argos these days, and I bet a lot of blank stares would be had (and that's if I give them RR (likely retiring), and Pinball!)......and that's a problem.....I'm sure the average person in Regina could name you five Roughriders....and that's the difference.....people in Toronto will spend money (lots of it) if they perceive an event as the "cool" thing to do; time for the Argos to figure out how to be "cool" again....until then, even at $20 a ticket it simply won't matter.....even Chamblin said as much in terms of being more visible in the community at his press conference (when asked about attendance issues), it's hard to get excited by a team and its players if we don't know them (to give credit - I think Wilder did a pretty good job with this last year engaging with fans on social media and the like)......

[Mike Hogan]

Argos1983;

Thank you for the passionate reply, and I'm thrilled you think the prices are reasonable.

You're right, we're facing an uphill battle, and I've said for years that the Argos have to find a way to become trendy again in this city, and if I knew how to do that I'd buy the team.

The only thing we can do as an organization is strive to get better, both on and off the field. Let's deal with both for a second.

On the field I think the Corey Chamblin signing is huge. As a die-hard fan you know how the players on that side of the ball respond to him. There is a legitimate enthusiasm from the players I've talked to. Two years ago the team co-led the league with 50 sacks, which certainly adds to the entertainment value. We'll see what happens on the offensive side of the ball in terms of coaching, but with James Wilder, S.J. Green and Armanti Edwards all under contract, there's certainly a solid base to build from.

Off the field I share your frustration in terms of attendance and visibility. This is my first full season with the organization, so I've seen how things are being done. I can sit here and tell you with 100 percent transparency that people here are busting their rear ends to make this team work for the fans. The first week of the Early Bird has gone very well and to those who have renewed or become STHs, thank you!

I had a meeting with management from the business ops side this week and presented a 4,000-word document with ideas to improve the game-day experience and the marketing of the team. I was thrilled to find out that many of the ideas are already in the works for this year, and there was a legitimate excitement to add some of the others. Some of course weren't doable, at least not yet in some cases. Every single one of the suggestions given on his board was a part of the presentation, so to everyone who DMed me, your voices were heard, thank you! I can tell you that many of your ideas will be implemented this season.

Don't forget that MSLE came late to the party last year, so this is the first full off-season the company can work its magic. Those four letters hold a lot of weight in this market and even with a short preparation time last year there were some off-field positives.

Ticket sales were up, despite there being little to no walk-up crowd at the end of the season because of the team's record. The amount of bums in the seats also went up, as the majority of those who bought tickets showed up...again a credit to Argo fans who came out despite the win-loss record and the injury problems that decimated the lineup, including Ricky Ray, the most recognizable player on the team, out for the year in game two.

TV ratings were up as well, modestly, but up none the less, which is a positive when you consider the way the season ended, and hurt by a game against the Als at the end of the year that drew under 200,00 viewers with both teams out of the playoffs.

These are steps forward. Small steps, but it's better to be moving in that direction than going the other way. I can't wait to see what a difference a team with a better record will make.

After the second Hamilton game this year we headed back to Liberty Village for a beer or two. We were at a big table with Ticat fans who I knew (though I'm not proud of that LOL), and a couple of Redblacks fans, who I didn't know. They were all season ticket holders with those teams. Both told me that they enjoyed the game-day experience at BMO Field more than at their own stadiums, which surprised me to be honest, especially hearing that from the Ottawa fans, but it also made me feel very happy. If we can take that and try to substantially improve on that experience we're doing the right thing.

You're right, we have to improve our image on the media landscape. That won't be easy, but after a couple of meetings I can assure you we intend to reach out to as many media outlets as possible to see how to improve our visibility. TSN and the Sun have been outstanding...but we have to build bridges elsewhere that were blown up in previous years. Again, I think the MLSE connection could prove to be invaluable here.

We have to be more visible. Let me share a story from a book I just finished re-reading. Those who know me well know that when I was a kid I lived and breathed Montreal Expos baseball. In Jonah Kerri's book Up, Up and Away (a MUST read for Expos fans) he told a story about the team's visibility in Montreal in the last couple of seasons.

Felipe Alou was the manager of the team, and among the most popular personalities in team history. Think Pinball's positivity with Adam Rita's demeanour. He said a friend of his, who owned a team in the Dominican League, came to Montreal for a visit. He was there a week and didn't see anyone wearing a Montreal hat. (As an aside, Argo merch will be more available this year). He was astonished by that. I know that even before I was employed by the team, I wore the Argo crest often. Golf shirts, tee shirts, caps, touques...I was proud to throw on the "A" or "The Boat" and go about my daily routine. The more fans that do this the better. Think of yourself as an Argo ambassador and try to spread the word. You have no idea how much that can help.

You can't tell someone what to like. All you can do is let your friends and family members know how much fun you have following this team. If they go to a game with you and they don't know any of the players, tell them the story of three or four players so they know a little bit about them. Tell them Wilder won an NCAA title with Florida State. Explain how close S.J. Green was to not being able to play again. Tell them what a stud James Franklin was at Missouri, or the stories of one or two members of the defence. If they can relate to some of the players it will make them feel a little more invested in the game.

When I watch an NCAA game these days I'm just watching guys in uniforms run around. I don't know anything about 99% of the players. The reason I enjoy the Argos, the CFL and the OUA the way I do is that I know the stories of the guys inside the helmets. As someone in the communications department who writes for the website, I know a lot of that is on me to provide the information and hope it generates some discussion. I can use your help by having you retweeting the stories, or sharing with your friends on Facebook. The more eyes on the stories the better.

Sorry for rambling, but I saw the post and thought it deserved an honest reply. Rest assured, people with the Argos are busting their rear ends to make improvements this year, both on and off the field. Last year was a learning experience for those of us off the field. Lessons have been learned and we're working hard to improve the areas we can.

Thanks for your loyalty, I hope everyone here continues to support the Argos when times are bad. I look forward to selling out the current configuration for the first time this year. I look forward to our first consecutive sellouts. I look forward to the day we need to open the east side upper deck for the first time. I look forward to selling out a full BMO Field for the first time. I look forward to the first consecutive sellouts as well.

All I hope is that you're there for that as well. We need this incredibly passionate fan base to help us get there.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Hoagie.

[paulwoods13]

Great note, Hoagie!

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Mike,

Any chance MLSE(Rogers) can lean on Sportsnet to produce a dedicated CFL related program on a weekly basis for the 2019 season? TSN and Sportsnet are losing rights to The EPL in 2019.If this frees up airtime/production resources for them then surely they can devote something to promote the Argos/CFL brand.I would love to see Donovan Bennett/Justin Dunk being able to tell CFL stories on another platform besides TSN.

(https://nationalpost.com/sports/soccer/international-soccer/tsn-and-sportsnet-losing-english-premier-league-canadian-broadcast-rights/wcm/3eb43617-8429-431e-9c53-fc6741ce754a)https://nationalpost.com/sports/soccer/international-soccer/tsn-and-sportsnet-losing-english-premier-league-canadian-broadcast-rights/wcm/3eb43617-8429-431e-9c53-fc6741ce754a

[Neely2005]

Thanks for the update Hoagie, lots of positive information there. Hopefully we're finally starting to make sustained forward progress!

[Mike Hogan]

Would love to see it, they're also finished with their U Sports commitment, but discussions like that are WAY, WAY above my pay grade. I know Dunk, DJ and guys like Micallef and Fay are very CFL friendly and I hope they take advantage of that. Jim Popp was on with McCown yesterday and Corey Chamblin was on the Blair show earlier this week, so that was positive news.

[Argos1983]

Hi Mike (Hoagie?) -

I appreciate the thoughtful reply (yay! someone else who writes as much as I do!!) --- I have Dm'd you a few times and you have always been more than kind and accommodating in repsonse to what can sometimes sound like "bitching and moaning" about how things are being done both on and off the field.....

As for on the field --- defence may win Championships but offence sells tickets --- a recognizable QB in the marketplace will help immensely - the casual sports fan (my wife for instance) knows who Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers and Drew Brees are (she knows Pinball and RR and that's about it) -- they also probably couldn't name me most of their other players on those teams....sad but true, but a beacon of hope and a "face in the marketplace" at QB matters.....

Again, being visible in the marketplace matters --- even now, who wouldn't love to see some Argos promotions regading putting some STH in someones stocking with some type of Argos gear as an add on - again - give away a hat or touque or shirt and get people wearing Argos gear year-round (never mind more in stadium give-aways - the Jays do it to draw more fans and the Argos somehow can't or won't?).....I personally love the Boat Logo - the history behind it is unique to a Toronto sports team who have been around for 100+ years --- they really should play up that angle.....it differentiates them in the marketplace a bit....

Argonotes? anything on that front? let's have some organic fan initiated ideas promoted by the team? other fan organizations (DBO? FOA?), fan day? - again, I got into TFC in 2007 through the supporter culture and that helped me gain a greater connection to the team --- special appearances at pubs all over the GTA (not just in Liberty Village -- you have fans in the suburbs - go and meet them there and share a pint and talk some football), and other one on one interactions with fan led groups helped with enagement for TFC in the early years as well......

Unfortunately some heavy duty marketing is going to have to take place to push this rock up the hill ---- frankly I would be putting Pinball in front of a camera as often as possible as I still think he is probably the one name that still resonates with the casual sports fan in this city (plus who doesn't love Pinball!)....the truth is the average Argos fan is "old", and likely grew up watching CFL football in the 70's - early 80s when they became a fan of the team in the pre-Jays taking off era (at the latest maybe a few people caught the Argos bug in the 1991-1997 era), mostly people who remember the CFL for what it was in its heyday or who got interested when Rocket played here (or even a few Flutie lovers from 96-97 although frankly attendance sucked those years too) and not from being a fan who gained interest from 2000 onwards (that's almost 20 years now!) - what Argos really resonated for an extended period who started their career here after 2000? Ricky Ray? (I have a Kackert jersey who was a GC MVP (goes well with my Fenerty one!) - how many casuals would even know who that is?).....getting families in the building is essential and improving that price point is necessary --- at $99 for four tickets it's simply too high for someone to try your product, when bobbleheads and 2 for $19.97 tickets happened for the Flutie game, magically I saw whole families at the game, that's your number about $50 for a family of four - and give the kids a darn T-shirt or hat and let them meet some players and catch a ball on the field after the game - like Jr. Jays days (you can even use the "turf" endzone so the precious grass doesn't get ruined - ha ha ha)......time to go back to grass-roots level marketing, make yourself something different in the marketplace; TFC did that in the early years and marketed the "experience" when the product sucked, and kept prices extremely low (my seasons were about $12 in Section 220 in 2007 (and are only about $20 now after 10 years as a reward for being loyal through the lean years - something the Argos need to do, reward long-time continuous STH so that they stay through the tough times too) and the South end stands started at $10 and are still under $20 per for long-time STH, as even when demand went up the last few years (tickets in my section could easily have sold for 2-3X what I paid), the team did not gouge their loyal customers, and most will now stay after last years crappy season)....they tried to get people in the building at all costs and engaged in something like MLS Soccer, which frankly was a big fat Zero on the radar here pre-2007.....

Maybe you and I can grab a beer next season Hoagie and you can convince me again why I should be investing in STs......again, it's not the price point, but the "perceived (and real) value" in the marketplace that's the issue.....I would assume this would be part of your expense account budget to be used for "Marketing"....MLSE surely has a bigger marketing budget, which must include beer right?! (just kidding....ha ha ha).....

Anyways - wearing my Argos gear as I type.....sadly the only comments I got this week were about Nylander (does he seem slow to you? - ummm yes, he hasn't played in how many months?!), and how well the Raptors are doing (very well, but let's wait until May/June to assess) from my friends who know I'm a sports nut.....I'll even get a few "TFC really sucked" comments from some people who know I love the team and think I'm nuts for liking "minor league soccer", the Argos simply get no acknowledgement at all, and that's the issue......

Thanks for your thoughtful words Hoagie --- keep fighting the good fight (insert Argos fight song here)!!


[QUOTE=Mike Hogan;136477]Argos1983;

Thank you for the passionate reply, and I'm thrilled you think the prices are reasonable.

You're right, we're facing an uphill battle, and I've said for years that the Argos have to find a way to become trendy again in this city, and if I knew how to do that I'd buy the team.

The only thing we can do as an organization is strive to get better, both on and off the field. Let's deal with both for a second.

[Mike Hogan]

Hoagie is perfect...just like the sandwich.

Every single one of the issues you talked about in your message was discussed on Wednesday. Every one of them. Some we can and will do, some we can't, at least one will happen for sure.

There's a conundrum with the demo that I can't figure out. I'm in my mid 50s and a diehard fan who remembers the sold out CNE. I love the boat logo, which was represented on a merchandise line last year. There's also the younger demo, which we have to attract, that's never heard of Rocket Ismail, so we can't get buried in nostalgia. We have to live for today and celebrate the players on the field without forgetting where we've been. That's our job and I think we did a pretty good job this year of telling stories through videos, written articles and the podcasts...which will be a regular feature next season.

Where is that line between celebrating the past without living in it? How do we appease the older demo while attracting the younger folks? That's a major question.

I discussed at length getting the Alumni Association more involved and recognized more. I have a meeting in the works with Dave Watkins, Peter Martin, and Jason Colero for sometime in the new year. We have to figure out how to better acknowledge the players who have gone before the current group, but we also can't go overboard. Again, that will be a learning curve.

As for the two for $19.97 promotion. That was a one off. As Bill Manning has said, one thing that's imperative to the future of the franchise is establishing a value for the ticket, so more people go to the games and there's no need to have tickets available at a major cut rate on StubHub. There's a plan in place that will play out over six years. I'm interested to see how many STHs there will be this season because there's a great plan in place and a ticketing staff that's hungry to add to the total. I'm genuinely excited to see passion in place every day I walk into the office.

I'm thrilled you're wearing the gear and I'm always open to a beer. I want to make sure we have a couple of town halls, or even something more informal where Argo management and staff can get together and exchange ideas over a pop. We can't learn without listening.

As I've mentioned...I don't sit in the stands so the fan base acts as my eyes and ears and I am SO grateful as many of you here responded with suggestions. Many of them were things I didn't realize, or never would have thought of.

Again...I've gone on too long. Thanks again for the response.

Hoagie

[Argos1983]

^Thanks Hoagie!

[ArgoZ]

If you can not get season tickets because of finances, work, commitments, that's fine. If you are able but choose not, that's fine too, but you better not complain when there is no team and complain about the people who didn't buy tickets.

Can you sit all over the stadium finding deals here and there that end up slightly less then a season ticket package? I guess that's possible, if you want to put in that kinda time consuming, bothersome work. After returning as a holder last year, I realized it's so nice having the same reserved seat and tickets, getting to know the people around me and being part of the club. It doesn't feel like a charity case at all, especially at the prices I am currently paying.

As for entertainment. This may surprise people, but not every team can be 18-0. There's crappy seasons in every league and sport and you just have to regroup and get through it. We are not the Washington Generals here. In fact, the last 3 Grey Cups (Hamilton 0 in that time) were so emotional due to the hard times us fans and the players went through. It's tears of joy that make being a fan special. Last season we had 4 victorys at home, including 2 incredibly exciting finishes. Aside from one blowout, the home losses were close. It could have been better, but I don't see how it wasn't entertaining, especially to any football fan.

I don't like it when I see the Argos or football fans making excuses for not going to games because of casual fan reasoning (popularity, value, perception, giveaways, etc).

[AngeloV]

Great post as usual Hoagie. Thanks for all you are doing.

[Argos1983]

^^ No one is expecting 18-0, -- but 2 winning seasons in the last 10 years is not exactly going to bring the casual fan in on a regular basis for the on field product.....even both Grey Cups were the product of 9-9 seasons.....not exactly creating a must-see vibe to catch the eye of the casual fan or to increase some "much needed buzz" around the team.....this team needs to bring in new fans, younger fans, and simply trying to appease the old die-hards is not going to grow the number to 23-25K a game (as Hoagie rightfully indicated)......so time to see what brought people in to other sports teams where maybe there was less interest over the last decade or two.....

.......If you want more than the 12-15K die-hard fans to come to games, value matters: Jays tickets in the 500Level were only around $16 in 2015-2016 with a great team (lots of tickets sold! buzz and noise in the stadium! demand created!) -- then got doubled to over $30 in the 500Level with "dynamic pricing" for most weekends in 2017-2018, and with way more restrictive packages being offered before the season started in 2017-2018 --- surprise! - way less tickets sold.....now they are trying to have more flexible packages again in 2019 (surprise!)....again I don't think the Argos pricing is bad right now (in fact at ST price-points it is quite good), but things like a cheaper family pack (less than $99) for someone to try your product would be a good idea in my opinion.... price point matters for the Jays too with young families (clearly Jr Jays days sell more tickets for people to go with their kids on those days, than on other days)......

Perception and giveaways do matter: the perception of the Jays being cool/popular with likeable known stars in 2015-2016 vs 2013-2014 and 2017-2018? made a big difference in getting people to go to games - the Jays were winning, fun, young, hip, loud, and all of a sudden the Dome wasn't as bad a place to watch baseball when it was full of young, loud, passionate fans and the Jays had well known stars to market (whose jersey is a kid buying this year for the Jays - the most popular player on the team is Vlad Jr. and he hasn't even played a game for them yet?!) --- a whole new generation of Jays fans magically "emerged" in late 2015 after 20 years of apathy, and went back into hiding last year, in terms of attendance, once popularity and the perception of "cool" was gone....

.....and yes, the Jays create buzz and show long lineups on social media with fans lining up to get Bobbleheads and other such giveaways; I know many many people that decide to go to Jays games based on giveaway days (the Jays put out their giveaway list this year already for 2019, trying to create buzz and sell tickets, and if social media is to be believed many of the responses were from people talking about going to certain "giveaway" games).....there is a reason the Jays started to move the popular giveaways on to less popular weekdays last year as they knew that these things could sell more tickets to some games where attendance may normally have been lower......

So maybe you don't like hearing the excuses from me who is a football fan (To be frank, I'm an "everything" fan - I can only attend so many events a year (I have family and work commitments too) - and even though I am fortunate to be able to attend a fair number of sporting events a year, when I pick which sport to drop in terms of attendance the Argos aren't making it difficult for me to do so - comparing the Leafs, Raptors, Jays, TFC and Argos right now; its the Jays and Argos who are giving me the least reasons to go and attend games these days - and obviously 800,000+ less Jays tickets sold last year and relatively paltry Argos attendance tells me others feel the same way too), but I'm the least of the team's worries, who is coming to replace me who is 20 years younger than I am? forget history, what about the future? what's going to make the public try your product when they haven't before? what is going to make them come back after they do? what connection do they have with this team and its players? you may think these are excuses but clearly there is a disconnect between this team and this market and doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result seems foolish to me (ie. if we win (if they build it (ie. BMO), they will come....clearly 96-97 "best teams ever", and winning a Grey Cup in 2017 tells us that simply isn't so)......

Excuses or not, something has to change and it might be time for the team to start sharing those ideas with their most passionate fans so that we can help them market their product too.....why wait until May or June when Leafs or Raptors buzz may be taking over the city? the Jays are selling now (here is the giveaway list in December!), and having another "Winterfest" in January (see they tried a new idea last year! and now it's going from one day to two days of off-season buzz for the Jays in Toronto) --- what are the Argos doing now, and for the rest of the winter to get us excited about the summer?

[GregR]

I don't get the "whining" accusations. Everyone on this board is a supporter in one way or another. Discussion is good. Opposing points of view are good. I certainly was not whining when I stated the 20% increase in Club seats. Just the facts. I still think they are fantastic entertainment value. I am able to sit in the best seats for a still relatively decent cost. I also enjoy giving club seats to friends and business acquaintances when I can't go. In some small way I am promoting the team and the game by giving them the best possible experience with their own lounge, beer vendors, snack bar and washroom + padded seats. Every single person I have taken to a game at BMO or given tickets to, has had a great time. As far as I know, the whole Club section is sold out to STH - Mike correct me if I am wrong - so it shows that some people are willing to pay more for the experience and it isn't all about lowering ticket prices. I think overall the Argos get overlooked by most of the local sports media. I can't stand when I hear negativity by some of our local sports broadcasters with regards to the Argos. Seriously? If you have nothing good to say then shut your mouth. Would it hurt if the media could just get behind the team? Maybe a lot of the current media folks are young and never experienced when the team was "big" in this town. All of us are self promoting the Argos, but when the average person is constantly hearing negativity with regards to the team, why would they support it? It is funny but almost all of the media coverage of the Toronto Wolfpack has been very positive in comparison - and they draw about 7-8000 per game and don't play in the top league.

[Argos1983]

I don't get the "whining" accusations. Everyone on this board is a supporter in one way or another. Discussion is good. Opposing points of view are good. I certainly was not whining when I stated the 20% increase in Club seats. Just the facts. I still think they are fantastic entertainment value. I am able to sit in the best seats for a still relatively decent cost. I also enjoy giving club seats to friends and business acquaintances when I can't go. In some small way I am promoting the team and the game by giving them the best possible experience with their own lounge, beer vendors, snack bar and washroom + padded seats. Every single person I have taken to a game at BMO or given tickets to, has had a great time. As far as I know, the whole Club section is sold out to STH - Mike correct me if I am wrong - so it shows that some people are willing to pay more for the experience and it isn't all about lowering ticket prices. I think overall the Argos get overlooked by most of the local sports media. I can't stand when I hear negativity by some of our local sports broadcasters with regards to the Argos. Seriously? If you have nothing good to say then shut your mouth. Would it hurt if the media could just get behind the team? Maybe a lot of the current media folks are young and never experienced when the team was "big" in this town. All of us are self promoting the Argos, but when the average person is constantly hearing negativity with regards to the team, why would they support it? It is funny but almost all of the media coverage of the Toronto Wolfpack has been very positive in comparison - and they draw about 7-8000 per game and don't play in the top league.

Agreed - it's not whining --- I think most (if not all of us) are Argos fans --- but just blindly supporting the franchise, and saying everything is ok when it is in clearly bad shape from an attendance, and public (and on field) perspective, is not how some of us want to be a fan - we want the team to push forward, try new things, be bold, fail bold, but at least try to move the needle doing something different than before.....wasn't it Tim Leiweke who said "Why can't we be great?" about TFC when they were a historically bad team and a "joke" to most people in this market....over the next few years they became a powerhouse in MLS and carried a swagger like they were a major league team in this market that you needed to pay attention to.....Ujiri watched the Raptors fail miserably to LBJ in the playoffs with a good (but not great) team and decided this year to blow up what was comfortable (DeRozan and Casey out for maybe a one year Leonard rental) and try to be great - maybe Leonard leaves and Nick Nurse will suck as a coach but I was happy they at least were trying to be great?! Tavares signs for $11M and now we all panic over how we are going to sign all of our young stars next July? we didn't say no to a bold Tavares move as it might cause us to lose some of our younger talent next year - we took a chance that we can figure it out somehow and get them all under the cap, and to try to be great.....that's what this market demands now, bold moves, trying to be great; the reason the Jays are perceived poorly now is that they appear to be acting like a small market team in a big city town....the Argos need to start demanding their presence in the marketplace; stop making excuses, don't wait for the media to come to you; go out there and draw the media to you; make bold splashes (it's not just about signing players, be constantly out there in the public engaging with fans in creative ways), you can be seen if you want to be, or you can simply keep complaining that no one cares about you....make them care.....if a sad sack MLS team can do it in this town, and in that same stadium, then anyone can.....

[Mike Hogan]

Greg;

The media apathy/negativity is something we have to figure out. I have some ideas, but it's an uphill fight. It can happen, but not overnight. I promise you it's being discussed and we'll deal with it as we get closer to camp. I haven't heard many complaints about going to BMO Field for a game, aside from some of the final scores, or unhappiness with something that happened on the field. I appreciate your promoting the team. Right now in a world of Big Box sports teams we have to work on a mom-and-pop level, winning over fans one at a time. That's why I want to be a liason on this board. If you have any problems or question you can always DM me here and I promise to respond.

[ArgoZ]

Argos1983,

You make some great, valid points, but I see you as a concerned Argos fan who is stating the challenges with the casual sports fan. For us and yourself (someone who is 35? and has Argos in their name), not attending Argonauts games due to your reasoning doesn't make sense to me. You don't seem to be helping the cause, but actually the opposite by joining the masses who are not attending.

[Argos1983]

Closer to 50 - but thanks (ha ha ha) --- the reason I keep mentioning the casual fan (and not just us few thousand "die-hards") is that this is the person we need to draw in -- the person who is not otherwise interested/engaged in the product (they aren't on these boards) - the new (younger) fan, the "next generation" of fans.....as for my personal reasoning for not attending as many games as before, or giving up my STs this year; yes, some of it is the things I have mentioned on the boards above in terms of the "entertainment value" of the product in relation to the events that I can choose to attend/not attend (price is not the issue frankly this year, although in past years the pricing model was asinine (and frankly insulting) in some locations --- 5 (!?) price points in Section 220?! with ridiculous explanations as to why this "couldn't be changed" for two full years? issues with merchandise discounts in stadium and online which took away the value of that perk, poor fan engagement in the marketplace, etc.); however there were other issues which arose with the ticketing office which soured me immensely over the last few years, and I simply cannot "reward" the Argos with my business year after year when I could clearly get what I needed for less money and more flexibility (and less hassle), as the season went along (much to my chagrin, this occurred for all three seasons at BMO); at this point they will have to win me back, as other franchises have done with me in the past....

Unfortunately, I am not worried that I will be unable to get tickets due to overwhelming demand (I pray that is the case one day!).....with MLSE backing it financially, it is in no danger of folding anytime soon without my business, unless the whole league folds, which after 100+ years and crisis after crisis tells me it hasn't or likely won't in my lifetime.....I'm simply getting older, and way less patient with excuses from teams as to why things aren't as they should be (same with the Jays and their lack of spending in the top 5 every year when the true value of their "national TV contract" is clearly not really being told -- I don't care about the ROI -- I want to be entertained as a sports fan) - this is entertainment and if I'm not being engaged or entertained I'm under no "fan obligation" to sit and watch a sub-par product year after year (after 2 hours of travel time there and back, and with other expenses tied to attending a game I had better feel that the entertainment/value proposition is high for me to make that commitment), and frankly there are way more choices out there as to how to spend my time and money these days (I sat through the horrific 80's with the Leafs because what other choice was there in the winter those days with no internet and only 10 channels to watch and no other sports in Toronto between Grey Cup and opening day - these days in the 1000 channel universe and with our attention constantly being drawn to our devices, it's much different); and if my family and friends aren't wanting to go to an Argos game, and the only people I know who want to go are simply the other "old farts" like me (ha ha ha) then this thing is clearly stagnating.....my daughter and I were talking about sports today and we talked about this problem, and she said - "Dad - no one in my school even knows what the Argos are frankly"; that's how little they resonate now with most young people.....I see Leafs, Raptors, TFC, Jays and NFL jerseys/hats almost every day when I pick them up from school, and zero Argos paraphernalia.....even my own daughter would rather wear a "Carlton the Bear" hat than an Argos one, and she has both....ha ha ha.....

I'll go back to yelling at my cloud now.....ha ha ha......

https://i.imgur.com/GcRxI08.jpg


Argos1983,

You make some great, valid points, but I see you as a concerned Argos fan who is stating the challenges with the casual sports fan. For us and yourself (someone who is 35? and has Argos in their name), not attending Argonauts games due to your reasoning doesn't make sense to me. You don't seem to be helping the cause, but actually the opposite by joining the masses who are not attending.

[Will]

Certainly MLSE has the most resources out of any ownership group in my lifetime, but I certainly don't envy the task in front of them.

You aren't going to get all GTA sports fans to like Toronto teams. But, the outright hostility that the CFL faces should not be overlooked. You have TSN post a CFL related article on Facebook and you start getting snarky replies such as "Nobody cares about the CFL" and so forth. I mean sure not everybody cheers for the Maple Leafs, but the hostility (Argos) is related the the sport and not the team.

Does the question, at this point, have to be "How do we get you to go to CFL games" or "Why do you dislike the CFL so much." I don't think you can really start working on the former until you figure out the latter.

[Neely2005]

If you can not get season tickets because of finances, work, commitments, that's fine. If you are able but choose not, that's fine too, but you better not complain when there is no team and complain about the people who didn't buy tickets.

Can you sit all over the stadium finding deals here and there that end up slightly less then a season ticket package? I guess that's possible, if you want to put in that kinda time consuming, bothersome work. After returning as a holder last year, I realized it's so nice having the same reserved seat and tickets, getting to know the people around me and being part of the club. It doesn't feel like a charity case at all, especially at the prices I am currently paying.

As for entertainment. This may surprise people, but not every team can be 18-0. There's crappy seasons in every league and sport and you just have to regroup and get through it. We are not the Washington Generals here. In fact, the last 3 Grey Cups (Hamilton 0 in that time) were so emotional due to the hard times us fans and the players went through. It's tears of joy that make being a fan special. Last season we had 4 victorys at home, including 2 incredibly exciting finishes. Aside from one blowout, the home losses were close. It could have been better, but I don't see how it wasn't entertaining, especially to any football fan.

I don't like it when I see the Argos or football fans making excuses for not going to games because of casual fan reasoning (popularity, value, perception, giveaways, etc).

I'd also add no complaining about attendance if you don't attend.

As to crappy seasons we've had more than our share! The Argonauts need to make winning seasons (a winning record) a regular occurrence. The last time we had back to back winning seasons was 2006 & 2007!


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toronto_Argonauts_seasons

[Shatto]

Arogo1983 makes some excellent points but I'm sorry and a little surprised he did not find the games "that interesting" Agreed the results of the games last year, were rather disappointing but there were several games that I found highly entertaining and exciting (even some of their losses). Yes, that is a subjective view, just as, even though I was brought up on soccer, I can't watch it now, as it seems, compared to hockey, football and even basketball, slow and relatively uneventful. However, that it a highly personal view and obviously not shared by everyone.

Argos1983 is absolutely correct, Pinball is still a highly recognizable name and personality and as he states, should be in front of the cameras more. In fact, he should be seen as not just the face and spokesperson of the team, he needs to be a senior position so he can be seen as someone with direct responsibility for the team and its future success. The position of president quickly comes to mind.

The one area where I disagree with Argos1983, is with the view that fans are not interested and the team is incapable of drawing 20,000+ fans. The Eastern final last year showed that is untrue, as the game drew a crowd of just shy of 25,000. The fans are there but the team and certainly management need to find ways to tap into that potential audience. Some may say that game was an outlier but they did come and they are obviously still out there. One way that won't attract fans, is by cancelling highly successful attractions, such as the extremely well received official tailgating.

Management also need to look at some of its recent personnel decisions Many of the client reps appear to have been dismissed and many of them had established excellent rapport with STH's. They were excellent sales folks and I often bought a few extra tickets for family and friends after a call and personal chat from my rep. Just recently, while attempting to renew my tickets, I discovered a glitch in my information on the site which could not be corrected online. A call to my personal rep went to voice mail, stating he was away from his desk but return my call. After 3 business days and no return call, I followed up with another call to Client Services, where I was informed he had left several weeks ago----but nobody saw fit to change his voice mail message. Very sloppy and unprofessional.

One huge personnel decision that deserves recognition and applause, is bringing Hogan on board. His excellent reports and undeniable enthusiasm for the team is most welcomed. Mike, you are a breath of fresh air and your advocacy for the team through your communications with the fans, is greatly appreciated. I have been a season ticket holder for many many years and now have my kids and grandkids following the team and attending games when possible. They will be the ST holders of the future, in all likelihood. Keep up the good work, Mike and looking forward to your next report.

[Argos1983]

Arogo1983

Management also need to look at some of its recent personnel decisions Many of the client reps appear to have been dismissed and many of them had established excellent rapport with STH's. They were excellent sales folks and I often bought a few extra tickets for family and friends after a call and personal chat from my rep. Just recently, while attempting to renew my tickets, I discovered a glitch in my information on the site which could not be corrected online. A call to my personal rep went to voice mail, stating he was away from his desk but return my call. After 3 business days and no return call, I followed up with another call to Client Services, where I was informed he had left several weeks ago----but nobody saw fit to change his voice mail message. Very sloppy and unprofessional.

One huge personnel decision that deserves recognition and applause, is bringing Hogan on board. His excellent reports and undeniable enthusiasm for the team is most welcomed. Mike, you are a breath of fresh air and your advocacy for the team through your communications with the fans, is greatly appreciated. I have been a season ticket holder for many many years and now have my kids and grandkids following the team and attending games when possible. They will be the ST holders of the future, in all likelihood. Keep up the good work, Mike and looking forward to your next report.

Thanks for the feedback Shatto --- a few quick points....yes an Eastern Final drew fans; a lot of those were Saskatchewan fans - I know as I was there and it was not an insignificant Roughrider "bump" when the Green and White are in town. Frankly an Eastern Final should have the place jammed with Argos fans as its usually the one game where the most "locals" can go, as the Grey Cup can be expensive for some to attend (although not in Toronto the last few times here save for 2012), and where there are automatically STH filling up a portion of those seats as part of their ST package who may not be doing so for GC. Its not that the Argos can't draw 20,000 (sure maybe for Hamilton, or a game during the Ex, or a playoff game - but they should be getting that all the time -- if TFC can get it for non-marquee opponents on crappy days/times (a Tuesday in February vs Colorado springs to mind) than the Argos should be able to do it too), its that they need more than die-hards to do so now, which means getting new fans into the product....

As for being "interesting" to watch last year, the CFL is a Quarterbacks league (I think with or without Ricky Ray showed us that the last few years; when you think of our GC wins you think of Holloway (Barnes), Dunigan, Flutie, Allen, Ray -- how many CFL Hall of Famers on that list?) - if you don't have one of the "good ones" (it's why Calgary stuck it out with their QB despite losing the previous two GCs), it's real tough to be successful and frankly almost impossible to build a connection with your "non die-hard" audience.....Wilder and SJ Green are great but having a QB getting them the ball that the average fan can latch onto (is it going to be Franklin?) is important too (for success both on and off the field)......I would bet more QB jerseys are sold to fans than any other position overall (NFL shops top selling jerseys has QB's leading the way by a lot compared to any other one particular position).....most fans could even name you the QB's of their opponents, yes the odd RB or WR or LB can be a draw in some special cases (less so in the CFL) - but the teams success usually is tied to QB play in the long run, especially in the CFL where the Dilfer/Ravens and McMahon/Bears types of Super Bowl Champions (awesome defence and "meh" offense) are much rarer than the Tom Brady and Joe Montana ones (or even Aikman and Bradshaw whose overall numbers may not back it up (Smith/Irvin and Harris/Swann/Defence were probably as important or more so to those teams success) but still to a large extent define those eras for those franchises for a lot of people).....when was the last CFL team to be recognized as some great "defensive unit" or RB leading their team to a Grey Cup (this is an offence driven and passing driven league) -- the Eskimos in the 70's were discussed as the Warren Moon/Tom Wilkinson Eskimos and not the Dan Kepley Eskimos -- the Calvillo Alouettes, the Flutie Argos not the Mike O'Shea Argos is mentioned when people speak of 1996/1997......QB's matter and help to define eras for teams, especially in the CFL -- having stability and quality at that position is essential to both on and off the field success....other exceptional (non-QB) stars like Pinball who stay with the team for a decade or more, and who are relentless in their presence in the marketplace, can cut through and make an impact (maybe Wilder if he stays here another 6-8 years and has sustained success?) -- but who is that person for the Argos right now? (frankly speaking who is that Blue Jay right now? outside of Vlad Jr. - who makes the average person say I want to go to a Jays game to see "X" play on their current roster?! -- and that's a big, big problem for them too...)

As for the paragraph highlighted on personnel decisions and issues in the ticketing department --- let's just say I had a very similar experience last year with my reps going AWOL and having no notice of such where calls were left un-returned or emails were unanswered for many weeks until someone eventually set up an "auto-reply" directing me to another person (this occurred multiple times), this is basic stuff at every place I have ever worked, when someone is no longer with the organization an email is set up directing people as to the change immediately, and a really good business would reach out to that person's customer list immediately, and contact them directly to indicate who the new person handling their account would be -- promises were made to me by one person (actually more than one person) and then left to "dust" after they got fired/quit, and then had me chasing down the next person who had no knowledge of what had been previously done by someone else in their organization -- it's sloppy and annoying to a customer and definitely did a lot to cause me to question where I was sending my money and whether I truly was a valued customer.....I know I have been told to trust the new regime in that regard and I'm sure they mean well (although now I read that it's still happening according to Shatto?!); but maybe it's time they showed me how valued I am as a customer to them, win me back! ....and then as the final straw, asked me to send them money to mail my STH gift to me? (I know we could pick it up in stadium over the last few games, but if one didn't (for whatever reason - maybe people have health or family or financial issues and can't attend for a few months for non-football related reasons), just send it to the STH with no questions asked, as it's simply good for customer relations to do so, don't ask for and take my $15 (I've never been asked to send money to have my STH gift mailed to me by any other organization - and they all were mailed to me at the team's expense and did not require me to pick them up!) - this is not a nickel and dime operation --- yeeesh that's just tacky from a multi-million dollar organization!? - yay Argos! you just saved $15 on postage but maybe you just lost $300-$400 on ST -- way to think big picture!....how you treat people matters, the little things matter, as save for the Leafs who can do whatever they want and the tickets will be sold (and even they have stepped up in the past for me too!), other franchises need sustained success, hitting the right price point, and big-time marketing pushes to maintain long-term interest in this town.....and maybe a little more TLC from the Argos to their STH base which they so desperately need to grow (and maintain) ---

On that note, can we get a rewards system set up for long-time continuous STH please? (bigger discounts on tickets/merch over time, special perks, unique opportunities to interact with players (lead the players on to the field? run the tee out to the field before kickoff?), meet the gameday personnel (watch the game from the press-box, or maybe lunch with Hoagie?!), etc.) ---- I've been mentioning this for years (!!), and it's not even for my personal benefit, but for those who have stuck it out for decades, do something special for these people, and if that is happening, then market the heck out of it, to encourage others to do so too -- people want to feel valued and a part of the organization they invest in -- aren't all of these teams calling them "memberships" now?!, you aren't a season ticket "holder", you are a "member" of the club.....long-term members should be made to feel special for sticking it out over the long haul (send team members or Pinball or other Alumni to their house with their STs (I think they used to do this, maybe they still do), have them sit with Alumni at a game (if they've been a STH for a decade or two, meeting those Alumni, getting an autographed ball from them (or some such thing), should have special meaning to them); create a moment on social media (I'm sure everyone would post pictures of sitting with their "heroes" at a game); so many things could be done to increase the goodwill around this team!!) .....it's simply the right thing to do, and the Argos need all the good press they can get.....

As for Hoagie (and Pinball) --- more of these two please!!! --- great reps for the organization, passionate, insightful, and patient/willing to listen and be responsive to their fanbase -- things this organization needs it's staff to be these days.....especially when dealing with the likes of me....ha ha ha......

[ArgoGabe22]

‪I’ve renewed my season tickets, chose to pay in instalments and will never think about the cost afterwards. Have prices increased? Is Stubhub cheaper option? I just choose to not worry and enjoy my time. ‬What’s done is done. I’ve paid, I’m happy.

[1971GreyCup]

‪I’ve renewed my season tickets, chose to pay in instalments and will never think about the cost afterwards. Have prices increased? Is Stubhub cheaper option? I just choose to not worry and enjoy my time. ‬What’s done is done. I’ve paid, I’m happy.

I think of ST like I think of owning property and paying for individual games as renting. I've done both. One is a commitment and one is I'll see how it goes. I like the value added of Town Halls and am glad to hear STH should expect a couple per year. Also, bring back the Locker sale. The added bonus here was that it was another event that also put the Argos "shield" out in the marketplace as desired.

The long term strategy is obviously is to attract new single game attendees and convert them into STH over time.

I see HC Chamblin as a big plus as a sound coach and from a marketing point of view. With his three seasons in Regina, he brings a wealth of experience year round promoting his team locally. No question, the Riders do an awful right in their community.

The new MLSE is a big plus from an ownership point of view. Their resources and longer term vision is paying huge dividends across there franchises.

I had a huge thrill at the recent Grey Cup. I got the opportunity to talk to Tom Wilkinson about his time in Toronto. We talked about the Toronto Rifles and Argos. That’s fun stuff for us old guys. While we understand that we have to appeal to the youth, let’s make sure we don’t alienate the guys and gals!

I can't remember a time when I was more optimistic about the future of this franchise. Granted, I am a long term fan and we all know that that word is derived from the word fanatic.

[AngeloV]

‪I’ve renewed my season tickets, chose to pay in instalments and will never think about the cost afterwards. Have prices increased? Is Stubhub cheaper option? I just choose to not worry and enjoy my time. ‬What’s done is done. I’ve paid, I’m happy.

Bingo.

[Argo57]

‪I’ve renewed my season tickets, chose to pay in instalments and will never think about the cost afterwards. Have prices increased? Is Stubhub cheaper option? I just choose to not worry and enjoy my time. ‬What’s done is done. I’ve paid, I’m happy.

That’s the best way to look at it, roll on 2019!

[Argofan_1000]

Greg;

The media apathy/negativity is something we have to figure out. I have some ideas, but it's an uphill fight. It can happen, but not overnight. I promise you it's being discussed and we'll deal with it as we get closer to camp. I haven't heard many complaints about going to BMO Field for a game, aside from some of the final scores, or unhappiness with something that happened on the field. I appreciate your promoting the team. Right now in a world of Big Box sports teams we have to work on a mom-and-pop level, winning over fans one at a time. That's why I want to be a liason on this board. If you have any problems or question you can always DM me here and I promise to respond.


I think there is an apathy to anything Canadian in this country, we have builders and then we have millennials - if that is being cruel well its close to the truth, you can't get a more Canadian League then the CFL so it fights this. Reason the Jays and Raptors plus all the MLS teams are still here is because of the truck loads of US television money. CFL doesn't have it.

To raise the profile, not just the CFL but football in general is signing a few stars. League can't even sign Canadians and was suggested on here by a few of us to use a signing bonus system at the draft to get these guys in the league.

Other things maybe the combine, using one day for High School before the CFL Usports combine, the best out of every province. The participants will go back and tell what they saw. Usports, NCAA uses the opportunity to scout the players. We must do this I think in one of the bigger centres. Sponsors or Alumni could offer scholarships or bursaries to Canadian Universities.

Other ways - international competition. Every other sports does it, why not football. We did have a bowl game at one time. CanAM bowl. Do not know what happened to it but I can remember it. Chatter if we win.

Also we have team ratio and an on field ratio. The on field ratio needs to go. The team ratio is an natural constraint. It is perception with the younger. Lets try the game without it. The Canadian players are good enough and don't need it.

Field size was brought up. NFL field is obsolete. We also need to tweek the CFL size. 60 X 100 with 15 yard end zones solves Montreal and TO. move the hash marks and the game won't change. Would also prepare for games out of the country in Mexico or US

If the league does not want to try something then we will have the same results. Can you imagine the chatter at preseason time if the field size is experimented with. How about experimenting with 4 downs, use the results as an experiment. I am not saying do it, I just want us to try. We can all agree with one thing and that is the fans will talk about it - alot

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Other things maybe the combine, using one day for High School before the CFL Usports combine, the best out of every province. The participants will go back and tell what they saw. Usports, NCAA uses the opportunity to scout the players. We must do this I think in one of the bigger centres. Sponsors or Alumni could offer scholarships or bursaries to Canadian Universities.


This will happen in 2019.(see link)
http://cfcprospectgame.com/
It's up to TSN and CFL to promote the hell out of this event during the lead up to the draft and beyond.It should already be promoted on the
the league website.So far nothing.



I think there is an apathy to anything Canadian in this country, we have builders and then we have millennials - if that is being cruel well its close to the truth, you can't get a more Canadian League then the CFL so it fights this. Reason the Jays and Raptors plus all the MLS teams are still here is because of the truck loads of US television money. CFL doesn't have it.
To raise the profile, not just the CFL but football in general is signing a few stars. League can't even sign Canadians and was suggested on here by a few of us to use a signing bonus system at the draft to get these guys in the league.



The media money is out there.It will be up to the CFL to go get it.This offseason the US/International rights go out for bid.Let's see what the league can do in the middle of a labor negotiation.

[Neely2005]

I think there is an apathy to anything Canadian in this country, we have builders and then we have millennials - if that is being cruel well its close to the truth, you can't get a more Canadian League then the CFL so it fights this. Reason the Jays and Raptors plus all the MLS teams are still here is because of the truck loads of US television money. CFL doesn't have it.

To raise the profile, not just the CFL but football in general is signing a few stars. League can't even sign Canadians and was suggested on here by a few of us to use a signing bonus system at the draft to get these guys in the league.

Other things maybe the combine, using one day for High School before the CFL Usports combine, the best out of every province. The participants will go back and tell what they saw. Usports, NCAA uses the opportunity to scout the players. We must do this I think in one of the bigger centres. Sponsors or Alumni could offer scholarships or bursaries to Canadian Universities.

Other ways - international competition. Every other sports does it, why not football. We did have a bowl game at one time. CanAM bowl. Do not know what happened to it but I can remember it. Chatter if we win.

Also we have team ratio and an on field ratio. The on field ratio needs to go. The team ratio is an natural constraint. It is perception with the younger. Lets try the game without it. The Canadian players are good enough and don't need it.

Field size was brought up. NFL field is obsolete. We also need to tweek the CFL size. 60 X 100 with 15 yard end zones solves Montreal and TO. move the hash marks and the game won't change. Would also prepare for games out of the country in Mexico or US

If the league does not want to try something then we will have the same results. Can you imagine the chatter at preseason time if the field size is experimented with. How about experimenting with 4 downs, use the results as an experiment. I am not saying do it, I just want us to try. We can all agree with one thing and that is the fans will talk about it - alot

I'd say it's more than apathy towards anything Canadian, it's outright hostility. It doesn't matter if it's the CFL, BlackBerry or Canadian film and television. Canadians (especially Torontonians) will outright ridicule you for supporting anything that's Canadian. It's a strange phenomenon.

As to your suggestions to make the CFL more like the NFL that's a "Hard No" from me. If I wanted to watch the NFL, I'd just watch the NFL instead of NFL Light.

https://i.postimg.cc/NM0cqMhx/1486136499050.jpg

[lazycro]

Off the current topic but on topic of 2019 season tickets, I lost out on some of the draw days because I moved my seats and they didn't count a payment against the seats until they had finished moving it and confirmed with me a week later... such is life.

[Will]

Off the current topic but on topic of 2019 season tickets, I lost out on some of the draw days because I moved my seats and they didn't count a payment against the seats until they had finished moving it and confirmed with me a week later... such is life.

I wanted to move. They told me to wait a few weeks so I wouldn't lose out on the early bird draws.

[AngeloV]

I'd say it's more than apathy towards anything Canadian, it's outright hostility. It doesn't matter if it's the CFL, BlackBerry or Canadian film and television. Canadians (especially Torontonians) will outright ridicule you for supporting anything that's Canadian. It's a strange phenomenon.

As to your suggestions to make the CFL more like the NFL that's a "Hard No" from me. If I wanted to watch the NFL, I'd just watch the NFL instead of NFL Light.

https://i.postimg.cc/NM0cqMhx/1486136499050.jpg

I agree with you on all of this.

[lazycro]

I wanted to move. They told me to wait a few weeks so I wouldn't lose out on the early bird draws.

Wish that was communicated to me during my first call.... not the 4th

[GregR]

Good point about the customer reps. I sometimes have the feeling that there are a lot of part timers, and sometimes there is no one in the office. I seem to be in touch with different people all the time.

[jerrym]

As to your suggestions to make the CFL more like the NFL that's a "Hard No" from me. If I wanted to watch the NFL, I'd just watch the NFL instead of NFL Light.

https://i.postimg.cc/NM0cqMhx/1486136499050.jpg

Ditto.

[Ron]

Argos one day offer for new season seats.

==============================================

As your personal insider this season, I am reaching out to share with you a one-day promo on new Argonauts memberships happening Thursday, February 28th.


Receive Early Bird Pricing (seating map attached)
Receive complimentary tickets to your choice of (a) Toronto Marlies, or (b) Toronto Raptors 905 (choose from remaining home schedule)
Potential for BMO bucks or merchandise (4 or more seats in any section)
Potential for a pair of (a) Toronto Maple Leafs, or (b) Toronto Raptors tickets (4 or more seats in a Gold section and above)
Argonauts membership package includes 8 regular home games and 1 potential playoff game + membership benefits (https://www.argonauts.ca/new-membership/).
Action Item: if interested, let me know what section and # of seats you would be looking for and we can explore what is available.

The team has made great talent acquisitions through Free Agency, Argos Sign Two-Time All-Star WR Derel Walker (https://www.argonauts.ca/2019/02/14/argos-sign-two-time-star-wr-derel-walker/), and are excited what a new offensive scheme can do for QB James Franklin, Franklin Set to be Number One Guy (https://www.cfl.ca/2019/02/13/mitchell-off-table-popp-begins-shaping-qb-depth/).

Flex packs on sale – early April
Single game tickets on sale – early May

[Godfather]

Ron, are you able to provide any more info on the flex packs? I recall that when the argos were at Rogers ctr they sold 6-game flex packs that could be used in any combination e.g. spread throughout the season or used all at one game. I took advantage of this a couple of times and thought it would be nice to see it come back at BMO.

[john]

I'd say it's more than apathy towards anything Canadian, it's outright hostility. It doesn't matter if it's the CFL, BlackBerry or Canadian film and television. Canadians (especially Torontonians) will outright ridicule you for supporting anything that's Canadian. It's a strange phenomenon.

As to your suggestions to make the CFL more like the NFL that's a "Hard No" from me. If I wanted to watch the NFL, I'd just watch the NFL instead of NFL Light.

were u so adamant in your opposition to becoming more like the nfl when cfl went AWAY from the bigger j5v ball to current ball - same size as nfl ball to make it easier fore usa trained qb's to adapt/throw

15 yd end zones are much better - in Edmonton the current back corners are cut off
I like the wi[l]der field....leetle joke
easier for usa db to accommodate 15 yd end zone
also move goal posts then to back of end zone

[CBlake]

I really do hope the Argos once again find their place in the Toronto sports landscape. Having been a longtime fan and working in the front office, this will will always have a special place in my heart. I attended a few games last year and look forward to seeing how this team does in 2019.

[CFLfan]

I'd say it's more than apathy towards anything Canadian, it's outright hostility. It doesn't matter if it's the CFL, BlackBerry or Canadian film and television. Canadians (especially Torontonians) will outright ridicule you for supporting anything that's Canadian. It's a strange phenomenon.

As to your suggestions to make the CFL more like the NFL that's a "Hard No" from me. If I wanted to watch the NFL, I'd just watch the NFL instead of NFL Light.

https://i.postimg.cc/NM0cqMhx/1486136499050.jpg

The CFL is not at the same level as the NFL, the Blackberry is not at the same level as an iPhone, the Canadian film industry...….ouch.....not at the same level as Hollywood.
If the CFL has to be more like the NFL to survive and draw fans, then why not?
I think 4 downs on our field with 2 fewer players on the field would be entertaining. I'm all for less punts
Our refs seem to be better, they call everything and do a good job of slowing down our game the past few years.

I lived and worked in the UK for a few years, do you think all the fans that love their 2nd, 3rd, 4th division soccer would give up because the EPL is the top division?
No you can watch and support your team even though you know that the level is not the top tier.

[AngeloV]

I think 4 downs on our field with 2 fewer players on the field would be entertaining. I'm all for less punts


11 man football on a Canadian size field would result in unstoppable offence with 3 downs, let alone 4. It would become All Star basketball and hockey like. No thanks.

[Neely2005]

I lived and worked in the UK for a few years, do you think all the fans that love their 2nd, 3rd, 4th division soccer would give up because the EPL is the top division?
No you can watch and support your team even though you know that the level is not the top tier.

The difference is that the CFL is the highest level of Canadian rules football.

[paulwoods13]

I never would have believed I'd say this, but I can see the CFL going to American rules eventually: downs, field size, players on the field, the whole shebang. Reaching out to the world for alliances is an effort to find new revenue streams, which is critically important. But the rest of the world has already decided that "American football" is the way go in their burgeoning programs, and no effort on the CFL's part will change that. I also would never have believed I'd be OK with switching to American rules, but if it means survival of the CFL and the Argonauts, I would be open to it. The biggest problem I see is that all of the stadiums in Canada are too big (physical dimensions, not seats) to properly replicate the experience of American football. But I like both brands of football, and it's pretty clear to me that football can be extremely entertaining on a smaller field with 11 players and four downs.

[AngeloV]

I never would have believed I'd say this, but I can see the CFL going to American rules eventually: downs, field size, players on the field, the whole shebang. Reaching out to the world for alliances is an effort to find new revenue streams, which is critically important. But the rest of the world has already decided that "American football" is the way go in their burgeoning programs, and no effort on the CFL's part will change that. I also would never have believed I'd be OK with switching to American rules, but if it means survival of the CFL and the Argonauts, I would be open to it. The biggest problem I see is that all of the stadiums in Canada are too big (physical dimensions, not seats) to properly replicate the experience of American football. But I like both brands of football, and it's pretty clear to me that football can be extremely entertaining on a smaller field with 11 players and four downs.

I would have no interest in that Paul. If that were the case, you might as well just bring an NFL team here, and I can almost guarantee it would happen if this was the case. It would absolutely kill the league.

[gilthethrill]

Paul Woods I am utter aghast at your speculation. If that were to happen that would end my tenure as a CFL fan.

[Shatto]

I seldom if ever disagree with Paul as he is an extremely knowledgeable of the CFL and football in general. However, in this case, with the greatest of respect, I have to disagree that the future of the CFL would be served by moving to NFL rules. It would risk alienating present fans without attracting new ones.

Once the league started down that slippery slope it would also, IMO, eventually lead to the elimination of the Canadian ratio of players. What we would end up with is NFL-lite and most I suspect would loose interest and simply watch the real thing (NFL) on TV.

[BATKINSON001]

Okay people, the topic of 4 down cfl does not belong in this thread, take that blasphemy elsewhere please.

[Rich]

Reaching out to the world for alliances is an effort to find new revenue streams, which is critically important. But the rest of the world has already decided that "American football" is the way go in their burgeoning programs, and no effort on the CFL's part will change that.

I don't think Europeans would care much about the differences between Canadian and American football. The skills needed for either game are practically identical. It's like the differences between rugby league and rugby union, some quirky differences but everybody sees them as the same sport.

[paulwoods13]

I don't think Europeans would care much about the differences between Canadian and American football. The skills needed for either game are practically identical. It's like the differences between rugby league and rugby union, some quirky differences but everybody sees them as the same sport.

But they are already playing four downs on a 100-yard field with 11 players, I believe. That and the gigantic shadow the NFL casts as one of the world's most successful sporting enterprises means the decision is already made and will not change, IMO.

[1971GreyCup]

With the CFL and the CFLPA negotiating the CBA, will player designations be part of the negotiations? Clearly the Commissioner appears to be trying to open the TV markets by including professional players from Mexican and European leagues.

Back in the 1990s this issue was forefront with the actual attempt to expand the CFL into the U.S. Clearly the CFLPA has to buy into the idea of broadening the TV market/revenues. Would the CFLPA agree to less Canadians, or larger rosters if the salary cap was measurably higher?

[paulwoods13]

I personally can't see the PA agreeing to reduce the number of NATs on the roster, or to water down the definition of NAT by including players from abroad, without a big fight. MAYBE the PA would agree to a per-team reduction if a 10th team comes along (so that the same number of overall jobs exist for Canadian players). But that's about as far as I can see them going.

(Having said that, the PA has lost all previous bargaining rounds, and is afflicted by membership ranks that have many different and sometimes conflicting interests. The PA taking a tough stand and winning some contentious issues would be a rare occurrence. But maybe with Ken Georgetti on their side, they will finally close ranks and present a united front.)

[1971GreyCup]

It really seems pointless to invite the Mexican and European professional football players to the combine if they’re going to be classified as International.

If the designation International is to be revisited the league should also look at:

- Internationals being requalified after long tenures in Canada?

- the National designation given to players that didn’t grow up and play in Canada. For years these players have been incorrectly designated Nationals.

[ArgoRavi]

I never would have believed I'd say this, but I can see the CFL going to American rules eventually: downs, field size, players on the field, the whole shebang. Reaching out to the world for alliances is an effort to find new revenue streams, which is critically important. But the rest of the world has already decided that "American football" is the way go in their burgeoning programs, and no effort on the CFL's part will change that. I also would never have believed I'd be OK with switching to American rules, but if it means survival of the CFL and the Argonauts, I would be open to it. The biggest problem I see is that all of the stadiums in Canada are too big (physical dimensions, not seats) to properly replicate the experience of American football. But I like both brands of football, and it's pretty clear to me that football can be extremely entertaining on a smaller field with 11 players and four downs.

Bite your tongue, Paul!!!

[CFLfan]

I never would have believed I'd say this, but I can see the CFL going to American rules eventually: downs, field size, players on the field, the whole shebang. Reaching out to the world for alliances is an effort to find new revenue streams, which is critically important. But the rest of the world has already decided that "American football" is the way go in their burgeoning programs, and no effort on the CFL's part will change that. I also would never have believed I'd be OK with switching to American rules, but if it means survival of the CFL and the Argonauts, I would be open to it. The biggest problem I see is that all of the stadiums in Canada are too big (physical dimensions, not seats) to properly replicate the experience of American football. But I like both brands of football, and it's pretty clear to me that football can be extremely entertaining on a smaller field with 11 players and four downs.

I love the posts that get the die-hards fired up and the moderators debating banning people "it's not free speech!! it's trolling" LOL
But you are right the rest of the world is playing 4 down football, if it means the survival of our league then why not.
4 downs on a Canadian sized field would be entertaining, even dropping a player on each side would open up our game. Even allowing all players to compete for a job instead of the ratio would attract fans.
The CFL is becoming boring at one time we used to brag that there was more offense in 3 downs than 4, but over the last few years the NFL has become much more entertaining.
We've seen the Canadian NFL TV ratings double while the CFL ratings stagnant, attendance in Toronto and the other big cities is dropping year after year.
Yes the die-hards would cry but it's about attracting new fans and the CFL especially in Toronto is not attracting new fans.

I expect the season tickets in Toronto will be down again this year and that's probably due to fans waiting for the last minute ticket sales.
Why buy season tickets at $80 a piece when you can wait for the $20 seat sale and sit where you want.

[AngeloV]

I love the posts that get the die-hards fired up and the moderators debating banning people "it's not free speech!! it's trolling" LOL
But you are right the rest of the world is playing 4 down football, if it means the survival of our league then why not.
4 downs on a Canadian sized field would be entertaining, even dropping a player on each side would open up our game. Even allowing all players to compete for a job instead of the ratio would attract fans.
The CFL is becoming boring at one time we used to brag that there was more offense in 3 downs than 4, but over the last few years the NFL has become much more entertaining.
We've seen the Canadian NFL TV ratings double while the CFL ratings stagnant, attendance in Toronto and the other big cities is dropping year after year.
Yes the die-hards would cry but it's about attracting new fans and the CFL especially in Toronto is not attracting new fans.

I expect the season tickets in Toronto will be down again this year and that's probably due to fans waiting for the last minute ticket sales.
Why buy season tickets at $80 a piece when you can wait for the $20 seat sale and sit where you want.

Every other American football league that has ever started in North America has died. Why would this be any different? A true minor league of American football would do worse in this market than the CFL does.

[Mightygoose]

To anyone who thinks changing to 4 downs will lead to a bigger following, let's look at the history of professional football playing American rules.

The Montreal Machine say hello. 2 seasons later, they said goodbye. No different than the average CFL team's existence in the US or all of the various spring leagues.

[Argofan_1000]

I never would have believed I'd say this, but I can see the CFL going to American rules eventually: downs, field size, players on the field, the whole shebang. Reaching out to the world for alliances is an effort to find new revenue streams, which is critically important. But the rest of the world has already decided that "American football" is the way go in their burgeoning programs, and no effort on the CFL's part will change that. I also would never have believed I'd be OK with switching to American rules, but if it means survival of the CFL and the Argonauts, I would be open to it. The biggest problem I see is that all of the stadiums in Canada are too big (physical dimensions, not seats) to properly replicate the experience of American football. But I like both brands of football, and it's pretty clear to me that football can be extremely entertaining on a smaller field with 11 players and four downs.

NFL field size, even the NFL doesn't like their field size. I am an advocate of a modified CFL field, probably closer to what the NFL wants - 60 X 100 with 15 yard end zones. 11 players would probably allow the roster size to decrease as taking out 1 player also takes out a defensive player and their backups - 4 players. plus maybe 1 or 2 on the P.R.

Ratio - we need to drop the on field ratio not the team ratio. lets see how that goes.

Cap must allow for some bigger name signings, then you will see more team jerseys purchased. More tickets purchased. That's all the fans want, is to feel important when they wear their team sweaters. They want the association to something bigger then themselves. CFL has had its moments but not completely (psychology majors jump in here for comments) What do sports fans want from their sports team?

I am willing to pay more for a higher cap in my ticket price - I want our own "bloody big deal" $4 bucks at the gate + $6 with everything else puts the cap $1.8 million more with 180K attendance for the 10 games. It isn't much and I for one would support this knowing the CFL moves back into 2nd league status behind the NFL. Also MUST move the minimum on the active roster. It can be done.

[jerrym]

To anyone who thinks changing to 4 downs will lead to a bigger following, let's look at the history of professional football playing American rules.

The Montreal Machine say hello. 2 seasons later, they said goodbye. No different than the average CFL team's existence in the US or all of the various spring leagues.

As a traditionalist, I say leave the CFL game as it is with minor rules adjustments as they become needed or as technology provides an opportunity to improve the game.

[paulwoods13]

NFL field size, even the NFL doesn't like their field size. I am an advocate of a modified CFL field, probably closer to what the NFL wants - 60 X 100 with 15 yard end zones.

Source, pls?

[paulwoods13]

To anyone who thinks changing to 4 downs will lead to a bigger following, let's look at the history of professional football playing American rules.

The Montreal Machine say hello. 2 seasons later, they said goodbye. No different than the average CFL team's existence in the US or all of the various spring leagues.

One team's failure, in a league that also failed, is anecdotal but hardly evidentiary. And all the leagues that failed were in the U.S., where the NFL and college ball have the market cornered.

But beyond that, the issue here is not whether going to four downs would make the CFL more successful. The CFL has to do a whole lot of stuff to become more successful, because the alternative is likely to wither and die. Ambrosie realizes this which is why he has launched his campaign to build alliances and (he hopes) generate more revenue from around the world. My point is that IMO it's unrealistic to think the world is going to embrace three-down football over the four-down football they are already playing. The CFL is the outlier here -- as far as I know the only adult league in the world (apart from CIS) that plays three downs on a 110-yard field with 12 men.

Ambrosie is absolutely right that the CFL is the second-biggest of 40 (or so) adult leagues worldwide. But the other 39, including the one that is by far the biggest, play a different brand of football. It's possible the CFL will develop good revenue streams as a sort of "boutique" TV product around the world, akin perhaps to Aussie Rules Football. But wouldn't it serve the international strategy better to position the CFL as the second-biggest version of the exact same sport? Hence my suggestion that the CFL may eventually need to go to American rules. I'm not advocating it, but I'm also no longer adamantly opposed to it (as I was for most of my life).

And I no longer buy the argument that Canadian football is more entertaining than American football. NFL and U.S. college ball have been getting steadily more entertaining over the past 20 years (in part by stealing the best elements of Cdn offensive philosophies) while the CFL has become stifled by over-coaching, too-big rosters and lack of access to the kinds of QBs who used to be superstars up here but of no interest to the NFL.

Ambrosie asked last night when was the last time we saw a CFL game that was 3-3 at halftime. Well, I can recall a game last season (Cal at Mtl) that was 6-0 at halftime. It was one of something like two dozen games with fewer than 40 total points scored. Yes, defence can be entertaining, but too much defence and too little offence is not, as a steady diet, entertaining. Hopefully the reduction in coaching staffs will open things up a bit.

[Argofan_1000]

Source, pls?

NFL would consider a wider field of play

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000137970/article/nfl-reportedly-would-consider-a-wider-playing-field

[paulwoods13]

NFL would consider a wider field of play

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000137970/article/nfl-reportedly-would-consider-a-wider-playing-field

Article is from 2013, and the only source is Bill Polian, who is no longer associated with the NFL.

Even if the NFL actually wanted wider fields (and I don't believe there is any traction whatsoever for this idea), the reality is that most stadiums could not accommodate it. Sidelines would end up too close to the stands in most stadiums.

[Shatto]

Normally I dislike repeating an argument already made but moving the CFL to an NFL look alike is a very dangerous proposition. Outside of Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, there will be real resentment at the change. Even in the 3 larger areas, it is unlikely that new fans will be attracted to a NFL lite league. If we alienate our present fans and don't attract new fans, the league simply fade away. Why watch AHL when you can watch the real thing (NHL) on TV? The same would occur with a CFL which is really only a minor NFL league.

Having said that, it could work if the CFL agrees to be a feeder league for the NFL. Allowing up and coming NFL players to gain professional experience and exposure before moving on to the big league.

[Argofan_1000]

Article is from 2013, and the only source is Bill Polian, who is no longer associated with the NFL.

Even if the NFL actually wanted wider fields (and I don't believe there is any traction whatsoever for this idea), the reality is that most stadiums could not accommodate it. Sidelines would end up too close to the stands in most stadiums.

There is no debate on a larger NFL field because they won't fit current stadiums

[argolio]

If field dimensions ever changed, I suppose they could phase it in as new stadiums get built. The NHL lived with different-sized rinks for decades. Baseball still does.

[Argofan_1000]

I love the posts that get the die-hards fired up and the moderators debating banning people "it's not free speech!! it's trolling" LOL
But you are right the rest of the world is playing 4 down football, if it means the survival of our league then why not.
4 downs on a Canadian sized field would be entertaining, even dropping a player on each side would open up our game. Even allowing all players to compete for a job instead of the ratio would attract fans.
The CFL is becoming boring at one time we used to brag that there was more offense in 3 downs than 4, but over the last few years the NFL has become much more entertaining.
We've seen the Canadian NFL TV ratings double while the CFL ratings stagnant, attendance in Toronto and the other big cities is dropping year after year.
Yes the die-hards would cry but it's about attracting new fans and the CFL especially in Toronto is not attracting new fans.

I expect the season tickets in Toronto will be down again this year and that's probably due to fans waiting for the last minute ticket sales.
Why buy season tickets at $80 a piece when you can wait for the $20 seat sale and sit where you want.

We have to compete with mother nature in this country because of the short summer season. Plus we don't put any games on prime time like the other leagues do. Leafs Sat night at 7 or 8 in the middle of winter. NFL plays in the winter weather and attendance in the northern states may be low but it is a captive audience on TV and it is on prime time.

I hope 1 problem is solved in the CBA. It is very important to the league to pay the players well enough that the lineup for jobs starts at the border. The good side to free agency is that it is the only thing that rivals F.A. and the draft from the other leagues. It is exciting. It is a selling point but the teams want to keep it a secret but it doesn't help build the fan base when they do this. They need to leak info.

We need to look at the ratio. I would like to see the on field ratio gone! You could make an argument that the roster size must be larger because of it. Also same can be said for the 11 vs 12 men. dropping 1 player on the field means 4 players. New leagues are 40 man, we are 46.

Our field size seems too big to me and the NFL field seems too small. NFL field size does look better on TV and they have the fans closer to the play. All helps when on TV.

THE OTHER THING that bothers me a lot is that TSN shoots the game where there are a lot of empty seats showing. WTF. Why do you do that if you are a true partner? You want a lesson on how to do it look at a Jays telecast. They never show an empty stadium when they have a choice.

[matthew]

I have seen plenty of jays telecasts with empty seats in corner (foul ball shots) Also can’t force all fans to sit on one side all around the 55 yard line. More people then seats. So you have to put them on both sides.

[Neely2005]

We have to compete with mother nature in this country because of the short summer season. Plus we don't put any games on prime time like the other leagues do. Leafs Sat night at 7 or 8 in the middle of winter. NFL plays in the winter weather and attendance in the northern states may be low but it is a captive audience on TV and it is on prime time.

I hope 1 problem is solved in the CBA. It is very important to the league to pay the players well enough that the lineup for jobs starts at the border. The good side to free agency is that it is the only thing that rivals F.A. and the draft from the other leagues. It is exciting. It is a selling point but the teams want to keep it a secret but it doesn't help build the fan base when they do this. They need to leak info.

We need to look at the ratio. I would like to see the on field ratio gone! You could make an argument that the roster size must be larger because of it. Also same can be said for the 11 vs 12 men. dropping 1 player on the field means 4 players. New leagues are 40 man, we are 46.

Our field size seems too big to me and the NFL field seems too small. NFL field size does look better on TV and they have the fans closer to the play. All helps when on TV.

THE OTHER THING that bothers me a lot is that TSN shoots the game where there are a lot of empty seats showing. WTF. Why do you do that if you are a true partner? You want a lesson on how to do it look at a Jays telecast. They never show an empty stadium when they have a choice.

In regards to showing the empty seats on TV:

http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?5611-TSN-To-Move-Cameras-To-The-East-Side-To-Shoot-West

[AngeloV]

I hope 1 problem is solved in the CBA. It is very important to the league to pay the players well enough that the lineup for jobs starts at the border. .

One thing I would like to see the league is put a maximum amount on individual contracts as well as increase the league minimum. I am on record as being happy as hell BLM didn't take the Argos offer. That would cripple the rest of the roster. The league really should shoot for not allowing any player's contract to exceed 10% of the team cap. Last year it would have meant $520k. Paying 1 player at or near 15% of the team cap is crazy IMO. Unless a player makes it to the NFL, he is not going to turn down a max contract at 10%.

[Argo57]

One thing I would like to see the league is put a maximum amount on individual contracts as well as increase the league minimum. I am on record as being happy as hell BLM didn't take the Argos offer. That would cripple the rest of the roster. The league really should shoot for not allowing any player's contract to exceed 10% of the team cap. Last year it would have meant $520k. Paying 1 player at or near 15% of the team cap is crazy IMO. Unless a player makes it to the NFL, he is not going to turn down a max contract at 10%.

Pretty logical idea Angelo, I’m also glad the Argos “lost” the BLM sweepstakes as the rest of the roster would have suffered.

[mchesher03]

agree with the others, in "losing" the BLM sweepstakes I think the Argonauts won. I like the guys they signed in FA period and as I've come to understand, none of that was possible if they had got BLM at that price.

[Billspreseason]

Anyone having an issue with their account manager not showing any purchasing activities or tickets available?

[Treblecharger1]

Anyone having an issue with their account manager not showing any purchasing activities or tickets available?

They merged any other MLSE accounts you might have into one. If you go to the upper right hand corner you can toggle between the accounts. Hope that helps as I had the same issue.

[Ron]

We have to compete with mother nature in this country because of the short summer season. Plus we don't put any games on prime time like the other leagues do. Leafs Sat night at 7 or 8 in the middle of winter.


The league needs prime time. They should have dedicated Friday night prime time games. Also add Saturday night prime time to get the fans who are used to watching the tube on Saturday's. They should also sprinkle some games in prime NFL watching times by having some game on Sunday afternoon.

Do this and we'll see some well needed change.

[BATKINSON001]

The league needs prime time. They should have dedicated Friday night prime time games. Also add Saturday night prime time to get the fans who are used to watching the tube on Saturday's. They should also sprinkle some games in prime NFL watching times by having some game on Sunday afternoon.

Do this and we'll see some well needed change.

Going up against the NFL is, I feel, part of the issue. Avoid Sunday altogether.

[AngeloV]

Going up against the NFL is, I feel, part of the issue. Avoid Sunday altogether.

Going up against NFL might hurt ratings a bit, but I'm of the opinion that Sunday afternoon in the fall would get better live crowds in Toronto.

[gilthethrill]

Going up against NFL might hurt ratings a bit, but I'm of the opinion that Sunday afternoon in the fall would get better live crowds in Toronto.

I agree completely.

[1971GreyCup]

Going up against NFL might hurt ratings a bit, but I'm of the opinion that Sunday afternoon in the fall would get better live crowds in Toronto.

OMG. I actually agree with you. Haha

[AngeloV]

OMG. I actually agree with you. Haha

The sky is falling. LOL!!

[argolio]

Whatever TV wants, TV gets. That's why the Leafs just played an afternoon home playoff game.

Now that they have exclusive rights to the NFL, I think TSN wants no more CFL regular season games opposite the NFL. Bigger question as far as scheduling goes might be the long-term future of the playoffs on Sundays.

[Neely2005]

Going up against NFL might hurt ratings a bit, but I'm of the opinion that Sunday afternoon in the fall would get better live crowds in Toronto.

Agreed. 4PM Kickoffs on Saturdays and Sundays are our favourite game times.

[CFLfan]

Going up against NFL might hurt ratings a bit, but I'm of the opinion that Sunday afternoon in the fall would get better live crowds in Toronto.

My question is why? What is wrong with Saturday afternoon?
If you are going after the football crowd, especially young people, then why would you go up against the NFL on Sunday? There are a lot of football fans that want to stay home and watch the NFL, schedule a CFL game on Sunday and you risk having people making the choice to stay home.

[AngeloV]

My question is why? What is wrong with Saturday afternoon?
If you are going after the football crowd, especially young people, then why would you go up against the NFL on Sunday? There are a lot of football fans that want to stay home and watch the NFL, schedule a CFL game on Sunday and you risk having people making the choice to stay home.

Traditionally Sunday afternoons have drawn well. I realize the only games on Sundays in the fall the last 20 years or so have been Eastern Finals, and they have all drawn much better than regular season crowds did in the same year. Saturdays have become more like weekdays in that a lot more people are working on Saturdays these days, especially students.

Argos playoff game on a Sunday afternoon less than 2 years ago drew the biggest crowd ever for an Argos game at BMO, despite the fact that it was a very cold and windy day.

[CFLfan]

Traditionally Sunday afternoons have drawn well. I realize the only games on Sundays in the fall the last 20 years or so have been Eastern Finals, and they have all drawn much better than regular season crowds did in the same year. Saturdays have become more like weekdays in that a lot more people are working on Saturdays these days, especially students.

Argos playoff game on a Sunday afternoon less than 2 years ago drew the biggest crowd ever for an Argos game at BMO, despite the fact that it was a very cold and windy day.

But the Argos had never hosted a playoff game at BMO so it's tough to compare. Who knows, maybe a Saturday playoff game at BMO would've drawn more.
It did look like Saskatchewan brought a lot of fans to the game.
I had forgotten there was 24k for that game - good article here about it:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/argos-earn-grey-cup-berth-east-final-victory/

[Will]

But the Argos had never hosted a playoff game at BMO so it's tough to compare. Who knows, maybe a Saturday playoff game at BMO would've drawn more.
It did look like Saskatchewan brought half their fans to the game.

No it didn't.

[CFLfan]

No it didn't.

I corrected my quote - "it looked like Sask brought a lot of fans"

[AngeloV]

I corrected my quote - "it looked like Sask brought a lot of fans"

Again, if you consider maybe 3000 fans out of the 25k a lot, more power to you.

[argofandave]

My season tickets arrived about 9:30am today.

[paulwoods13]

Wow, this is a very slick package this year -- one of the best we've had. The extras are super-nice. I love the fact that while other teams are going to electronic tickets, we still get an old-fashioned book of real, high-quality tickets (plus some nice gifts).

[CFLfan]

Wow, this is a very slick package this year -- one of the best we've had. The extras are super-nice. I love the fact that while other teams are going to electronic tickets, we still get an old-fashioned book of real, high-quality tickets (plus some nice gifts).

ALL teams have the same high quality tickets available, or you can go electronic, it's your choise. I prefer electronic and just flash my Iphone, don't have to worry about looking for them or losing them.

[paulwoods13]

ALL teams have the same high quality tickets available, or you can go electronic, it's your choise. I prefer electronic and just flash my Iphone, don't have to worry about looking for them or losing them.

It's great to offer a choice, but I'd be willing to bet that at least some other teams do not print high-quality logo-stamped tickets. I've read fans on other forums complaining in past years about getting generic Ticketmaster tickets if they want hard copy tickets. I'd be very surprised to see eight other packages as nice as these.

[GregR]

I will echo the above. A beautiful presentation package this year. Mine arrived a couple of hours ago. Nice scarfs also!

[Rich]

Looks like the boat logo (thankfully without the brown) is gonna be a bigger part of the branding this year.

[gilthethrill]

When I saw the cardboard box on my front porch is I just assumed my wife had done even more online shopping. Much to my surprise it contained a very, very sweet package of gifts from my favourite sports team.

I regret accusing her of online shopping. Very much so.

[argolio]

When I saw the cardboard box on my front porch is I just assumed my wife had done even more online shopping. Much to my surprise it contained a very, very sweet package of gifts from my favourite sports team.

I regret accusing her of online shopping. Very much so.Make some ribs for her.

[Shatto]

Just received package. Very impressive. My wife loves the scarves. I think she is going to take ownership of them. Well done, Argos.

[ArgoFan1]

The league needs prime time. They should have dedicated Friday night prime time games. Also add Saturday night prime time to get the fans who are used to watching the tube on Saturday's. They should also sprinkle some games in prime NFL watching times by having some game on Sunday afternoon.

Do this and we'll see some well needed change.
Boy- you obviously have never been a CFL fan. Friday Night Football has been big on TSN for many years. There are CFL games on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights, EVERY WEEK.

[ArgoFan1]

I have never and will never use electronic tickets. Will never trust a phone to work at a crucial time like trying to get into a stadium.

[argotom]

Yes just got my package, very impressed with it.
One of the best in years.

[Mightygoose]

Only my 4th year as STH and easily the best package so far.

The compact case make great for easy storage and very durable. Paper tickets that are not too bulky is a nice change too.

[argonaut11xx]

nice to see a very positive response from the STH, instead of the usual cranky curmudgeon type babble.
Looks great, good job by the team.

[matthew]

Works like a charm for me everytime and all you have to do is add it to your wallet to avoid any issues. to each his own.


I have never and will never use electronic tickets. Will never trust a phone to work at a crucial time like trying to get into a stadium.

[matthew]

I have never considered my constructive feedback "babble". I for one am not in the "babble" business.


nice to see a very positive response from the STH, instead of the usual cranky curmudgeon type babble.
Looks great, good job by the team.

[ArgoGabe22]

Great package. Almost not enough recognition. And we know how fast the complaints would be if the package was disappointing haha.

[Shatto]

I may be a curmudgeon but hopefully I never babble! LOL

[Neely2005]

Definitely a top notch package. Lots of compliments on Facebook from season ticket holders of other teams who don't get anything like this.

[ArgoZ]

I have never and will never use electronic tickets. Will never trust a phone to work at a crucial time like trying to get into a stadium.

How about a plane? I wouldn’t say never, you may not have a choice. A Raptors game I attended this year was electronic only.

[Neely2005]

Anyone know when our tickets will be available to assign in the Argonauts Season Ticket Manager?

[ArgoZ]

Anyone know when our tickets will be available to assign in the Argonauts Season Ticket Manager?

June 10, including online exchange option.

[Neely2005]

June 10, including online exchange option.

Thank you.

[ArgoFan1]

How about a plane? I wouldn’t say never, you may not have a choice. A Raptors game I attended this year was electronic only.

I purchased a ticket to the pre-season game last week and it was electronic only. My phone could not open the link they sent, so I got my money back. For air travel, I print my boarding passes every time. Like I say, I will never trust a phone. I also never remember to keep it charged. No problem with paper. Works every single time. There are still people who don't carry a phone, so hopefully the paper option will always be around.

[CFLfan]

I purchased a ticket to the pre-season game last week and it was electronic only. My phone could not open the link they sent, so I got my money back. For air travel, I print my boarding passes every time. Like I say, I will never trust a phone. I also never remember to keep it charged. No problem with paper. Works every single time. There are still people who don't carry a phone, so hopefully the paper option will always be around.

We were originally discussing "season tickets" where they come in nice glossy paper or you could choose to have them electonically delivered.

If you buy individual tickets on-line including from ticketmaster they are electronic but just like air tickets, you can print them out.

[AngeloV]

We were originally discussing "season tickets" where they come in nice glossy paper or you could choose to have them electonically delivered.

If you buy individual tickets on-line including from ticketmaster they are electronic but just like air tickets, you can print them out.

Argofan1 is correct about the pre season game. I thought I had the option to print as well but I was wrong. I have a wallet on my phone so it wasn’t an issue for me, but there are still a lot of people that don’t believe in or need cell phones. So strictly electronic is a bs way of doing things. Almost as if they are working with the phone companies to force people to buy expensive phones.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Argofan1 is correct about the pre season game. I thought I had the option to print as well but I was wrong. I have a wallet on my phone so it wasn’t an issue for me, but there are still a lot of people that don’t beAlmost as if they are working with the phone companies to force people to buy expensive phones.

My advice to you: never learn about "native advertising" because ignorance is bliss. Just about everything is a thinly veiled sales pitch.

[ArgoFan1]

I have to admit that I know very little about the workings of my phone. I have no clue what this wallet thing you mentioned is all about. I only turn it on when I need to make a phone call, or check a map. When I tried to get the ticket using the link it only said it "could not obtain a secure connection. " That was as far as I got. Phone was useless in that instance. I know I can get other web sites, but this did not work. Therefore, I called and got my money back.

[Rich]

I have to admit that I know very little about the workings of my phone. I have no clue what this wallet thing you mentioned is all about. I only turn it on when I need to make a phone call, or check a map. When I tried to get the ticket using the link it only said it "could not obtain a secure connection. " That was as far as I got. Phone was useless in that instance. I know I can get other web sites, but this did not work. Therefore, I called and got my money back.

I also have a dumb phone so i called the Argo office and they sent me a link for paper tix. I am sure this option will always be made available, but you probably will have to call for it.

[AngeloV]

I have to admit that I know very little about the workings of my phone. I have no clue what this wallet thing you mentioned is all about. I only turn it on when I need to make a phone call, or check a map. When I tried to get the ticket using the link it only said it "could not obtain a secure connection. " That was as far as I got. Phone was useless in that instance. I know I can get other web sites, but this did not work. Therefore, I called and got my money back.

Not sure if I needed to, but I downloaded the free Ticketmaster app, which made it easy to put the tickets into the wallet. Once they are in the wallet, you no longer need wifi or data to access them.

[Neely2005]

June 10, including online exchange option.

I'm only able to Transfer the additional tickets that I bought, not any of my Season Tickets. Is anyone else having this issue?

[ArgoZ]

I'm only able to Transfer the additional tickets that I bought, not any of my Season Tickets. Is anyone else having this issue?

I have to exchange some of my season seats too. I will let you know how I make out. It’s doesn't surprise me that it is buggy. Ticketmaster has that reputation. I would recommend firing up the old computer rather than using a tablet or phone, if you are doing so.

[Neely2005]

I have to exchange some of my season seats too. I will let you know how I make out. It’s doesn't surprise me that it is buggy. Ticketmaster has that reputation. I would recommend firing up the old computer rather than using a tablet or phone, if you are doing so.

Yeah I already tried on the PC. Hopefully the season tickets will be available to Transfer soon too.

[BATKINSON001]

Yeah I already tried on the PC. Hopefully the season tickets will be available to Transfer soon too.

Mine were shown in the manager, I’ll check the transfer availability when I get home.

[Neely2005]

Mine were shown in the manager, I’ll check the transfer availability when I get home.

My season tickets aren't even showing, just the additional single game tickets that I bought. I reached out to the Argonauts and they said that they'll be available by Friday.

[ArgoZ]

My season tickets aren't even showing, just the additional single game tickets that I bought. I reached out to the Argonauts and they said that they'll be available by Friday.

Same here.

[Neely2005]

Same here.

Mine are there now. Not sure if it's because I contacted them though.

[BATKINSON001]

Got mine yesterday by heading to the Argos office and picking them up. Didn't get the commemorative tickets as they were missing in the mail or something according to my rep. Received normal tickets instead, and I have everything else in the package and that is awesome.

[ArgoZ]

Mine are there now. Not sure if it's because I contacted them though.

I was able to exchange my tickets through Ticketmaster/Argonauts Account Manager today. Was a good process, involving clicking on actual seats. Adope required and hence didn't work on my IPad. I exchanged 2 seats from the Calgary game (vacation) and 2 from the Thursday night game for a total of 4 extras to the home opener.

[Ron]

My advice to you: never learn about "native advertising" because ignorance is bliss. Just about everything is a thinly veiled sales pitch.

I miss those days. Like this subtle native advertisement about buying Glad Garbage bags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGu4AwL5Kho

[KCargosfan]

No idea if Ticketmaster is correct, but looks like there will be a good crowd Saturday.

Glad the CFL took my advice from a few years ago that the Argos' home opener should ALWAYS be against Hamilton to guarantee a good crowd.

[Mightygoose]

No idea if Ticketmaster is correct, but looks like there will be a good crowd Saturday.

Glad the CFL took my advice from a few years ago that the Argos' home opener should ALWAYS be against Hamilton to guarantee a good crowd.

I see that too, granted I always use Ticketmaster online inventory with a grain of salt.

Still, showing about 50 tickets left. I would think the team would add additional inventory sooner.

If it's close to sellout, even against Hamilton would still be big leap forward. Home opener against the Ti-Cats in 2017 drew 13K and change.

[Neely2005]

I see that too, granted I always use Ticketmaster online inventory with a grain of salt.

Still, showing about 50 tickets left. I would think the team would add additional inventory sooner.

If it's close to sellout, even against Hamilton would still be big leap forward. Home opener against the Ti-Cats in 2017 drew 13K and change.

What's a sellout now that they're no longer selling the Upper East Grandstand?

[Mightygoose]

What's a sellout now that they're no longer selling the Upper East Grandstand?

I don't have an official number but my understanding is including suites, the capacity is just under 20K.

[CFLfan]

I see that too, granted I always use Ticketmaster online inventory with a grain of salt.

Still, showing about 50 tickets left. I would think the team would add additional inventory sooner.

If it's close to sellout, even against Hamilton would still be big leap forward. Home opener against the Ti-Cats in 2017 drew 13K and change.

I'm the same, take it with a grain of salt. The last couple of years you would see greyed out seats on the ticketmaster chart, it didn't mean that the seats were sold just that they weren't selling them at that time. It's likely that all the greyed out areas on the West side means they are trying to sell the seats on the east side facing the TV cameras first. Check back on Friday and you are likely to see more available.

I think that if they were close to a sell out the Argos would go out of their way to announce it.
But it is against the Ticats and it's a Saturday game, a lot of fans from Hamilton should be there. Arkells, Bobble Heads and the Ticats could bring a big crowd

Capacity for CFL football was 26k, the East side upper deck seats 9k and it's blocked off. Therefore a sell out would be 17k

[Godfather]

I'm the same, take it with a grain of salt. The last couple of years you would see greyed out seats on the ticketmaster chart, it didn't mean that the seats were sold just that they weren't selling them at that time. It's likely that all the greyed out areas on the West side means they are trying to sell the seats on the east side facing the TV cameras first. Check back on Friday and you are likely to see more available.

I think that if they were close to a sell out the Argos would go out of their way to announce it.
But it is against the Ticats and it's a Saturday game, a lot of fans from Hamilton should be there. Arkells, Bobble Heads and the Ticats could bring a big crowd

Capacity for CFL football was 26k, the East side upper deck seats 9k and it's blocked off. Therefore a sell out would be 17k

If tickets are still available anywhere in the stadium they need to be released now. They will lose business if people go to ticketmaster and see all grey. People will just think there are no tickets available and move on to something else.

[Mightygoose]

Ticketmaster inventory has been updated and released in almost all sections, so not a sellout. Granted most sections are 'light blue' so we'll see how quick they move

[CFLfan]

Ticketmaster inventory has been updated and released in almost all sections, so not a sellout. Granted most sections are 'light blue' so we'll see how quick they move

Yep, just checked and all of a sudden seats available all over the stadium. Which proves you don't look at the ticketmaster chart for an Argos game and assume the greyed out areas are sold.
I am guessing the crowd will be around 15k and that has nothing to do with the ticketmaster seating chart, just a guess based on the last couple of years and past bobblehead nights and the Ticats in town

https://www1.ticketmaster.ca/toronto-argonauts-vs-hamilton-tiger-cats/event/1000568BAA442521?camefrom=CFC_TORONTOARGONAUTS_WEB _INTERNAL_LINK_BOBBLE_05302019

[1971GreyCup]

Based on Ticketmaster site, it looks like the west side of the stadium has sold plenty of tickets. East side sales look pretty good at this point too.

[Neely2005]

Our home opener is usually the highest attended regular season game.

[herrington2828]

Argos are giving away free tickets left right and center... i got 2 freebies given to me and have had 6 other tickets offered up through 2 different avenues ... its a papered house thats for sure!

[herrington2828]

not to mention stubhub starts at 10 bucks USD and u can easily get in for under 25 bucks CDN this weekend

[ArgoZ]

not to mention stubhub starts at 10 bucks USD and u can easily get in for under 25 bucks CDN this weekend

$10 on Stubhub is closer to $20 when all said and done. My seasons are around $30 a game and are right behind the bench, so don't know what point your trying to make here. Argos game are cheap? YES! They are and a fantastic way to spend your money. Spread the word.

You also mentioned in another thread that Leafs holders were offered some complimentary Tix to the opener. At $4000 year for Purples, I'm ok with that.

[AngeloV]

$10 on Stubhub is closer to $20 when all said and done. My seasons are around $30 a game and are right behind the bench, so don't know what point your trying to make here. Argos game are cheap? YES! They are and a fantastic way to spend your money. Spread the word.

You also mentioned in another thread that Leafs holders were offered some complimentary Tix to the opener. At $4000 year for Purples, I'm ok with that.

Well said. I too am ok with the Leafs or Raptors ST holders getting freebies thrown their way.

[KCargosfan]

The Argos should be giving free tickets left and right to local youth football leagues and local high school teams.

Hell, bring in York, U of Toronto and whatever other colleges are up there for a game in late July or early August.

(Note: If my colleges are incorrect, my excuse is I'm an American, haha)

[herrington2828]

$10 on Stubhub is closer to $20 when all said and done. My seasons are around $30 a game and are right behind the bench, so don't know what point your trying to make here. Argos game are cheap? YES! They are and a fantastic way to spend your money. Spread the word.

You also mentioned in another thread that Leafs holders were offered some complimentary Tix to the opener. At $4000 year for Purples, I'm ok with that.

not that they are cheap, just i find it challenging we are already papering and giving seats away when last year it was said they wouldnt devalue tickets - now have these free tickets ed up on stubhub as for 10 or 12 bucks.greens are 550 next year a seat ... the thing is the resale value i get is usually double ... so ill spend 4 or 5.5k if it means making money happily :)

[ArgoZ]

not that they are cheap, just i find it challenging we are already papering and giving seats away when last year it was said they wouldnt devalue tickets - now have these free tickets ed up on stubhub as for 10 or 12 bucks.greens are 550 next year a seat ... the thing is the resale value i get is usually double ... so ill spend 4 or 5.5k if it means making money happily :)

Argos are in a challenging market. We all know that here. Just because you and some other MLSE clients got some comps doesn’t mean we all did. I didn’t. Anyone else that spent money on this game will get great value too. I don’t see what spouting off negatively about freebies accomplishes, aside from having an even further helping hand in decreasing sales.

[Mightygoose]

I get free Marlies tickets offers for being an Argo ST from time to time. I have no issue it being done through account holders of the other brands.

It's kind of like an unmentioned perk.

[bannedforlife]

I don’t see what spouting off negatively about freebies accomplishes, aside from having an even further helping hand in decreasing sales.Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[bannedforlife]

not that they are cheap, just i find it challenging we are already papering and giving seats away when last year it was said they wouldnt devalue tickets - now have these free tickets ed up on stubhub as for 10 or 12 bucks.greens are 550 next year a seat ... the thing is the resale value i get is usually double ... so ill spend 4 or 5.5k if it means making money happily Pardon me if I'm misinterpreting this, are you a scalper?

[Neely2005]

Pardon me if I'm misinterpreting this, are you a scalper?

Or a Troll?

[Neely2005]

No idea if Ticketmaster is correct, but looks like there will be a good crowd Saturday.

Glad the CFL took my advice from a few years ago that the Argos' home opener should ALWAYS be against Hamilton to guarantee a good crowd.

Lol, yeah nothing like getting your ass kicked at home by your arch rival to start of a new season!
:-)

[KCargosfan]

Lol, yeah nothing like getting your ass kicked at home by your arch rival to start of a new season!
:-)

You're missing the point, but whatever.

[argofan81]

I purchased a ticket to the pre-season game last week and it was electronic only. My phone could not open the link they sent, so I got my money back. For air travel, I print my boarding passes every time. Like I say, I will never trust a phone. I also never remember to keep it charged. No problem with paper. Works every single time. There are still people who don't carry a phone, so hopefully the paper option will always be around.
Argofan1 is correct about the pre season game. I thought I had the option to print as well but I was wrong. I have a wallet on my phone so it wasn’t an issue for me, but there are still a lot of people that don’t believe in or need cell phones. So strictly electronic is a bs way of doing things. Almost as if they are working with the phone companies to force people to buy expensive phones.Well I (we) certainly had a lesson learned about electronic tickets. This likely will never be an issue for an Argos game but on a whim, my boyfriend bought us tickets to the Arkells concert last night during the football game. Obviously since we were at the game we could not print out the tickets and had to go with electronic tickets. All went well getting into Budweiser stage and getting to our seats. Then my boyfriend's phone died. No big deal, we were into the concert. Que when we leave our section to go get a drink...and try to return to our seats. Phone was dead so we couldn't show our tickets. The security argued with us for about 10 minutes telling us that we could not go back to our seats because we could not show our tickets. And on top of that we couldn't stand at the top of our section because they had to keep the aisle way clear. I'm not sure where we were supposed to go to watch the remainder of the concert? Even the senior security manager was involved and was denying us. Finally a junior came up with the suggestion that he take us to our seats (as we were telling them the exact section, row and seat numbers from the beginning) and see if anyone there would verify that we had already indeed been in those seats. Fortunately that is exactly what happened. Had it not been for the people around us verifying that we had been there earlier I am not sure what would have happened. Anyway, lesson is that if you have electronic tickets make sure that your phone is well charged to last you the entire event (and not just the beginning of the event) or if possible, always carry a paper copy just in case!!

[Neely2005]

You're missing the point, but whatever.

Was joking, apologies if that wasn't clear.

[Neely2005]

Well I (we) certainly had a lesson learned about electronic tickets. This likely will never be an issue for an Argos game but on a whim, my boyfriend bought us tickets to the Arkells concert last night during the football game. Obviously since we were at the game we could not print out the tickets and had to go with electronic tickets. All went well getting into Budweiser stage and getting to our seats. Then my boyfriend's phone died. No big deal, we were into the concert. Que when we leave our section to go get a drink...and try to return to our seats. Phone was dead so we couldn't show our tickets. The security argued with us for about 10 minutes telling us that we could not go back to our seats because we could not show our tickets. And on top of that we couldn't stand at the top of our section because they had to keep the aisle way clear. I'm not sure where we were supposed to go to watch the remainder of the concert? Even the senior security manager was involved and was denying us. Finally a junior came up with the suggestion that he take us to our seats (as we were telling them the exact section, row and seat numbers from the beginning) and see if anyone there would verify that we had already indeed been in those seats. Fortunately that is exactly what happened. Had it not been for the people around us verifying that we had been there earlier I am not sure what would have happened. Anyway, lesson is that if you have electronic tickets make sure that your phone is well charged to last you the entire event (and not just the beginning of the event) or if possible, always carry a paper copy just in case!!

That sucks, another possible solution is to forward the Etickets so they're on 2 Phones.

[GregR]

carry a small power bank on a day out

[KCargosfan]

Was joking, apologies if that wasn't clear.

It's my bad, I didn't pick up the sarcasm. Considering I'm a sarcastic sob, I should have. haha.

[argofan81]

That sucks, another possible solution is to forward the Etickets so they're on 2 Phones.

That's a good idea to try in the future.


carry a small power bank on a day out

If we knew that we were going to need the phone all day we would have either tried to preserve the battery power (i.e. use it less) or thought about bringing a power supply. Ordinarily, neither one of us is so tied to our phones that we care if it lasts all day or not. The tickets were bought on a whim hence we just weren't planning on needing the phone all day. But yes, this is a valid suggestion.

The idea that popped into my head yesterday is that perhaps venues can issue wrist bands or stamps once you enter your section that will allow your return...that way you don't have to rely on holding on to your tickets...some of us lose things easily, even if they are paper lol. I am sure that we are not the first people nor the last to suddenly not have ticket access during the event due to a phone that no longer has power or a lost paper ticket.

[BATKINSON001]

Well I (we) certainly had a lesson learned about electronic tickets. This likely will never be an issue for an Argos game but on a whim, my boyfriend bought us tickets to the Arkells concert last night during the football game. Obviously since we were at the game we could not print out the tickets and had to go with electronic tickets. All went well getting into Budweiser stage and getting to our seats. Then my boyfriend's phone died. No big deal, we were into the concert. Que when we leave our section to go get a drink...and try to return to our seats. Phone was dead so we couldn't show our tickets. The security argued with us for about 10 minutes telling us that we could not go back to our seats because we could not show our tickets. And on top of that we couldn't stand at the top of our section because they had to keep the aisle way clear. I'm not sure where we were supposed to go to watch the remainder of the concert? Even the senior security manager was involved and was denying us. Finally a junior came up with the suggestion that he take us to our seats (as we were telling them the exact section, row and seat numbers from the beginning) and see if anyone there would verify that we had already indeed been in those seats. Fortunately that is exactly what happened. Had it not been for the people around us verifying that we had been there earlier I am not sure what would have happened. Anyway, lesson is that if you have electronic tickets make sure that your phone is well charged to last you the entire event (and not just the beginning of the event) or if possible, always carry a paper copy just in case!!

Also, take a battery pack with you to charge the phone.