Should the Argos Draft Mathieu Betts #1 Overall?

[jerrym]

Mathieu Betts put on an extremely impressive performance at his pro day, making him a prime prospect for being drafted #1 overall. However, is he too good in that this performance could lead to his heading to the NFL and possibly not coming back for years, if ever.
My position is that he is too good to give up on as #1 overall doesn't guarantee success in the CFL (see Faith Ekakitie).
The following article includes five videos of Betts in action.



arlier this week Betts held a pro day at Laval which was attended by scouts from both sides of the border, continuing a trend blazed by names like Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, Antony Auclair and many earlier who made the jump from the RSEQ conference to the height of CFL and NFL Draft interest.
During that workout Betts laid down numbers that proved his worth, showing the unique explosive skill set that helped him lead the RSEQ with nine sacks in six games played last season.
https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/BETTS-Mathieu-PRO-DAY-COMPARABLES-copy.png
Betts’ size is certainly not a concern. He measured in at the same height as Ricky Foley (https://www.cfl.ca/players/ricky-foley/125907/) and the weight of Laurier grad Ese Mrabure, who now spends time bouncing around the interior defensive line of the reigning Grey Cup Champion Calgary Stampeders.
Betts laid down the same bench as Junior Turner (https://www.cfl.ca/players/junior-turner/158177/) did when coming out of Bishop’s in 2011 before being selected ninth overall by Calgary.

The mind blowing part of Betts’ physical attributes comes when you talk quickness and speed, which is no surprise if you’ve ever seen how fast he gets off the ball or his open field closing speed on a bootlegging quarterback.
He tied the best 40-yard dash time (4.70) ever run at a CFL Combine with McMaster’s Ben D’Aguilar in 2013 and Western Mustangs’ Dylan Ainsworth (https://www.cfl.ca/players/dylan-ainsworth/160597/) in 2014.

Here’s the catch. Betts did it while 15 pounds heavier than D’Aguilar and 19 pounds heavier than Ainsworth!
He also showed above average lower body explosion while jumping 9’9” in the broad jump and 29.5” on the vert. Betts’ in-game quickness translates well to testing as expected. He laid down a slightly better shuttle time than Laurier sensation Kwaku Boateng (https://www.cfl.ca/players/kwaku-boateng/163191/) and the fastest time ever recorded by a defensive lineman at a CFL Combine by .20 seconds over Calgary product Micheal Klassen. That’s not a small margin and comes in first amongst 250 defensive lineman with combine data available. ...

As for his game play, I wanted to highlight five things I love about Betts’ game, which was tough because he does a little bit of everything extremely well. The first thing that caught my eye was his ability to read and react against cross ball motion, free releasing running backs and situations where the quarterback is reading his posture. ...

Betts has the ability to go full speed ahead, put one foot in the ground and change direction on a dime like a receiver would. Those quick reactions made him near impossible to attack in the zone read game while at Laval — an attractive feature to add to a CFL Draft resume considering how much traffic CFL defensive ends have to sift through on a play-to-play basis. ...

I also loved the variety of pass rush moves Betts has adapted to his game as he grew and developed at Laval. His ability to drop the inside shoulder, keep offensive tackles’ hands off him and cut the corner is special. Just when you think you have him figured out and plan to sit a little bit further outside to stonewall that edge, Betts hits you with any variety of outside-in pass rush moves. From rips to spins and everywhere in between he is a complete pass rusher who stays surprisingly humble in the run game without sacrificing much in the way of all-out pressure every pass play possible.

If tying the fastest 40-yard dash off any defensive lineman ever evaluated at a CFL Combine doesn’t impress you much because you believe in game speed, I’m with you – kind of. Betts PLAYS fast, which is always the difference between a track star and a football player. His closing speed combined with quick decision making should help to quickly adapt to the faster pace of CFL play should a team be so lucky to get their hands on him.
https://www.cfl.ca/2019/03/12/ferguson-betts-climbing-draft-boards-impressive-pro-day/

[OV Argo]

He's one of the best pure Canadian DE talents out of college ball in a long time (not saying he's up there with Jim Corrigall or Brent Johnson yet though).

IF he draws decent to serious NFL interest - then a big NO to using first overall on him (even though he fits a big Argo need - a pass rush phenom); could stay and drift around the NFL for years and never show in the CFL (BC used a high pick to draft DE Rob Meier out of US college ball and he lasted in the NFL for years and the Lions and the CFL never saw him).

Interesting scenario - the Als are very interested in getting this Quebec product and are willing to deal with the Argos for first overall = chance to fleece that clown Mavis big-time in a trade ? - the next year's 1st rounder, plus a couple of other current Als property in return (say O-Lineman Trey Rutherford plus a starting DB) ?

[Shatto]

It is a very good question. The fact he has decided to bypass the CFL Combine probably indicates he wants the NFL. His workouts indicate he could be a late round NFL draft or signed as a free agent. The gamble is whether he will return or not. IMO too big of a gamble to choose him 1st overall in the draft unless he isn't drafted by NFL and the team can get some understanding with him that he would sign if the money was right.

[OV Argo]

It is a very good question. The fact he has decided to bypass the CFL Combine probably indicates he wants the NFL. His workouts indicate he could be a late round NFL draft or signed as a free agent. The gamble is whether he will return or not. IMO too big of a gamble to choose him 1st overall in the draft unless he isn't drafted by NFL and the team can get some understanding with him that he would sign if the money was right.


Wonder if he would be much more inclined to show up in the CFL as Als property? - chance to play in his home Province, marketing potential and they could use DE help (as could the Argos, or Ottawa). He could think some CFL experience could be a spring-board to the NFL, but i bet he is focused on the NFL big-time at first?

I'll bet he draws some sort of NFL interest - even as an un-drafted FA - and ends up bouncing around down there - and maybe never shows up in the CFL? Which would be too bad, but understandable ($$$). Him showing up for the Als and given the chance to be a starter right away and becoming an impact star player for them would be sweet though; a real bad scenario would be drafted by the Argos and if he shows being looked at as depth only behind the mediocre import DEs types the Argos deployed last season. If there ever was a Canadian draft pick in recent years who warrants big-time attention, hype and buck$ if he reports to the CFL right away, it's this guy, IMO. An average US college ball player like Ekaitie is not in the same area code as Betts in terms of football talent - nice job Bummers.

[paulwoods13]

IMO he is just about guaranteed to get an NFL deal, and absolutely guaranteed to prefer an NFL deal to any sort of CFL deal. So No to taking him No. 1. I'd definitely be open to trading his rights (or the rights to the first overall pick, provided we knew for sure that pick would be used to trade him) in exchange for some top NAT talent. If we don't trade the pick and he's still available at No. 9, I'd consider taking him there and hope he doesn't stay in the NFL for years. We have two other picks in the top 21 or so, so gambling No. 9 would not be a huge risk IMO.

[doubleblue]

It is a very good question. The fact he has decided to bypass the CFL Combine probably indicates he wants the NFL. His workouts indicate he could be a late round NFL draft or signed as a free agent. The gamble is whether he will return or not. IMO too big of a gamble to choose him 1st overall in the draft unless he isn't drafted by NFL and the team can get some understanding with him that he would sign if the money was right.

I hadn't heard Betts has decided to pass up the CFL combine. The latest one out of confirmed attendees shows him on it.

I watched scrimmages of the Shrine game week and Betts alternated mostly at right DE every two or three plays. I was a little disappointed in his play there. Different calibre of play for sure from the CIS. He never got around once one of those monster OT's he was up against in the pass rush, and got pushed around pretty good on the running plays. At 6' 2 1/2 and 250 I thought the NFL would maybe look at him more of a line backer. He has good speed 4.7 and great pursuit. But he lined up at DE all the time.
Too me he is a CFL DE where he has more room to beat the OT's with his quickness and spin moves etc. But the NFL could see him as a good special team guy and work on the other parts for down the road. If it's just the money, $480,000 minimum US beats the CFL every time.
I believe by draft day the CFL teams will know where they stand with him. If he just signs as a FA down there, Popp could possibly take a flyer at #9 and keep him in the pipeline for a couple of years.

[OV Argo]

I hadn't heard Betts has decided to pass up the CFL combine. The latest one out of confirmed attendees shows him on it.

I watched scrimmages of the Shrine game week and Betts alternated mostly at right DE every two or three plays. I was a little disappointed in his play there. Different calibre of play for sure from the CIS. He never got around once one of those monster OT's he was up against in the pass rush, and got pushed around pretty good on the running plays. At 6' 2 1/2 and 250 I thought the NFL would maybe look at him more of a line backer. He has good speed 4.7 and great pursuit. But he lined up at DE all the time.
Too me he is a CFL DE where he has more room to beat the OT's with his quickness and spin moves etc. But the NFL could see him as a good special team guy and work on the other parts for down the road. If it's just the money, $480,000 minimum US beats the CFL every time.
I believe by draft day the CFL teams will know where they stand with him. If he just signs as a FA down there, Popp could possibly take a flyer at #9 and keep him in the pipeline for a couple of years.


??? - not sure which Shrine scrimmages you watched, but Betts was singled out for some outstanding pass rush in the one on ones - embarrassing some of the OTs there (one replay shown in particular with a spin move), and one report had him about best player of the day; as far as the actual game - i saw some of it (and have the balance on PVR) - he did not do that much, but i saw him get some QB pressure (and he had a tackle for a loss).

[Argo57]

I wouldn’t use the #1 overall pick on Betts, too risky.
Trading down to accumulate additional picks (and players who you can sign) may be the way to go.

[j-ski]

No. I think he will stick in the NFL.

[CrazyCanuck89]

??? - not sure which Shrine scrimmages you watched, but Betts was singled out for some outstanding pass rush in the one on ones - embarrassing some of the OTs there (one replay shown in particular with a spin move), and one report had him about best player of the day; as far as the actual game - i saw some of it (and have the balance on PVR) - he did not do that much, but i saw him get some QB pressure (and he had a tackle for a loss).

Betts did look good that game. Even Joel VanPelt (University of Calgary) who played DE for the other team made a play.

[OV Argo]

Betts did look good that game. Even Joel VanPelt (University of Calgary) who played DE for the other team made a play.

VanPelt is actually rated higher than Betts for DEs on one of the NFL draft prospect site's rankings = ???

VanPelt was drafted by the Ticats last year.

[argos1873]

With the top Canadian players becoming better, the CFL draft is almost a joke. Teams won't draft a guy who will go to the NFL, or they might draft a guy who MIGHT go to the NFL and end up losing him. Maybe they should just restrict it to Usport teams. Not that that will solve the problem, but it would help.

[Wobbler]

Hmm. How long has NFL potential significantly affected CFL draft priority? I want to say ~30 years, but I'm not sure.

[AngeloV]

Hmm. How long has NFL potential significantly affected CFL draft priority? I want to say ~30 years, but I'm not sure.

I would say closer to 10 years.

[argos1873]

Hmm. How long has NFL potential significantly affected CFL draft priority? I want to say ~30 years, but I'm not sure.

30 years? I don't think so.

[Wobbler]

Suddenly I feel young. Can we agree that skilled players have more opportunities than ever before and that this is a very good thing?

[OV Argo]

Suddenly I feel young. Can we agree that skilled players have more opportunities than ever before and that this is a very good thing?


??? - not sure i get you there ?

Betts - if drafted by the Argos and showed up - would get a real shot to compete at DE with Davis or Beltre level talents? Mercer Timmis is in the mix to compete for some playing time at tailback for the Argos? A bunch of CFL teams in QB need are going to draft O'Connor or Merchant or Sinagra and give them a real shot?

[paulwoods13]

30 years? I don't think so.

I think it's more like 10-15, but it is worth noting that the Argos selected Chris Schultz as a territorial selection in 1982. I don't know if they foresaw him going to the NFL, but at any rate he did, and didn't get to Toronto for four years. Then there was Mike Schad, selected fourth in the 1986 CFL draft and 23rd in the NFL draft. I'm pretty sure the CFL draft was held weeks before the NFL draft back then -- Schad may have fallen as far as fourth because he was known to be eyeing the NFL. The big difference between then and now is that back then it was a very rare occurrence for a Canadian player to be an NFL prospect. Now there are college grads signing with NFL teams every single season.

[doubleblue]

??? - not sure which Shrine scrimmages you watched, but Betts was singled out for some outstanding pass rush in the one on ones - embarrassing some of the OTs there (one replay shown in particular with a spin move), and one report had him about best player of the day; as far as the actual game - i saw some of it (and have the balance on PVR) - he did not do that much, but i saw him get some QB pressure (and he had a tackle for a loss).

Yeah I saw that spin move in the 1 on 1's. Hey I've been a Betts backer from day 1 and a CFL first over all pick. But the Shrine week scrimmages are on you tube and I was disappointed in his play. The spin move didn't work in the scrimmages. Not that he wasn't trying. It's a big man's game down there. I see him as a linebacker in the NFL who can blitz when called on. We'll see.

[R.J]

Mashall Ferguson has us drafting OT Shane Richards - https://www.cfl.ca/2019/03/18/mock-1-0-argos-go-big-first-overall-pick/?utm_source=dlvr.it

I like this pick better than Hodge's pick of Saxelid.

[gilthethrill]

Mashall Ferguson has us drafting OT Shane Richards - https://www.cfl.ca/2019/03/18/mock-1-0-argos-go-big-first-overall-pick/?utm_source=dlvr.it

I like this pick better than Hodge's pick of Saxelid.

Does Richards have NFL aspirations? I don't want another 1st round OL pick to go down south like Hunter did last year. Having said that the lines on both sides of the ball should be first priorities.

[doubleblue]

Does Richards have NFL aspirations? I don't want another 1st round OL pick to go down south like Hunter did last year. Having said that the lines on both sides of the ball should be first priorities.

I think they all have NFL aspirations $$$$$. I hope Popp and his group can get it right (what ever that is) with the #1 overall pick as it seems to be a good group in the first three rounds anyway. You've got to get an impact player IMO with the first overall pick whether the ratio is 7, 6 or 5. By draft day they will know who has been drafted and/or signed down south. Richards will probably get a FA look down there first, so it could be another Hunter situation. Saxelid has been out of College a year so may be available from the get go. To me IMO Saxelid is the better CFL Tackle prospect because of his footwork and agility. Richards more of a Guard in the CFL. Nobody is going to pancake him.
I know combine day is a must watch when the big guys go mano mano.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Does Richards have NFL aspirations? I don't want another 1st round OL pick to go down south like Hunter did last year. Having said that the lines on both sides of the ball should be first priorities.
It's a new reality that the CFL has to start dealing with in regards to player recruitment.You could see up to 25 players go to NFL mini-camps.
the number could be more if certain players jump out at the CFL main combine(Thomas Grant,Chris Osei-Kusi).It's going to play havoc with drafting.
It will be just as bad next year.

[argonaut11xx]

The Argo's MUST draft a 5 star genius person, or PR firm.

When the Argo's had Doug Flutie, the team was successful on the field, won back to back championships, so making the on field product great doesn't mean a damn thing, until the team is RELEVANT again,

So no matter which Canadian O=lineman the team covets, its akin to a bag of rocks, unless the people of Toronto start to CARE again.

The hardcore fans love to bitch and complain, but we are not ever going to stop being fans. The team needs NEW fans, the kind of fans that PISS OFF us long time fans.

Draft a marketing wizard please.

If Doug Flutie, and his on field magic only bumped attendance to 16k -18K on a good day, sadly the team winning doesn't mean anything right now.

A relevant losing team would be more successful in Toronto than a winning team that nobody cares about. (see 2017 Grey Cup).

Therefore except for the 25 or 30 folks on this site that CARE, the draft choice doesn't mean anything in terms of the future of this team.

SO, I say try to draft Betts, why not, hopefully by the time he considers playing for the Argo's the ship has been righted.

[R.J]

I think they all have NFL aspirations $$$$$. I hope Popp and his group can get it right (what ever that is) with the #1 overall pick as it seems to be a good group in the first three rounds anyway. You've got to get an impact player IMO with the first overall pick whether the ratio is 7, 6 or 5. By draft day they will know who has been drafted and/or signed down south. Richards will probably get a FA look down there first, so it could be another Hunter situation. Saxelid has been out of College a year so may be available from the get go. To me IMO Saxelid is the better CFL Tackle prospect because of his footwork and agility. Richards more of a Guard in the CFL. Nobody is going to pancake him.
I know combine day is a must watch when the big guys go mano mano.
I don't think the Argonauts could go wrong with either Richards, Saxelid, or Wilkinson, but as has been proven time and time again, it'll all depend on how they develop. I think Richards has a higher ceiling, but Saxelid and Wilkinson are more pro ready at this point. And, if Hunter does come up eventually, the Argos could have some great pieces on the OL.

[OV Argo]

Does Richards have NFL aspirations? I don't want another 1st round OL pick to go down south like Hunter did last year. Having said that the lines on both sides of the ball should be first priorities.


He might like to get an NFL shot and since he's from a big program, who knows; but not like the guy has that a great a resume there - not a multi-year starter or all-star; his resume is more like that of Rider 1st overall pick Josiah St-John, who was not a proven starter either, but had the Div I Okie resume. St-John finally played some on the O-line for the Riders last year, and some of their fans were raving about his play; he is currently still a FA though.

I'd much rather the Argos pick a proven, multi-year college ball starter & all-star - and for O-gaurds, Laval's Sam Thomassin is that. He might draw an NFL look though - so stay clear with #1 if that happens; but there are some other very good O-line prospects this draft IMO (Jesse Gibbon (Waterloo), Zach Williams (Manitoba), Drew Desjarlais (Windsor)) who won't likely get any NFL call. Wilkinson was a starting C in Div I ball, but the Argos already have a league best calibre C in McEwen and he's young; a natural OG to challenge or be future replacement for Holmes of Bomben would make sense.

Marshall Ferguson = guy makes me laugh; i get he's a CFL commentator and tries hard i guess; but he's right out to lunch with a lot of his commentary on the CFL; yeah, I know he's a former CIS player, but he is just clueless at times with some of the stuff he says.

[Jon Gonzo]

Hmm. How long has NFL potential significantly affected CFL draft priority? I want to say ~30 years, but I'm not sure.

Good call. It has been 30 years. I cite Tony Mandarich, who came out of Michigan State as the 'greatest O-Line Prospect ever.' He was taken by the Packers 2nd overall and taken in the CFL Draft at pick #54 by the BC Lions

[Jon Gonzo]

Marshall Ferguson = guy makes me laugh; i get he's a CFL commentator and tries hard i guess; but he's right out to lunch with a lot of his commentary on the CFL; yeah, I know he's a former CIS player, but he is just clueless at times with some of the stuff he says.

Wow. This type of comment, I will never understand. We need MORE information from CFL nuts, not less, and then when we get it? Honestly, I don't know you but I can honestly venture that he watches more PRACTISES than you do games. "Out to lunch" "Clueless?" C'mon man, really?

[OV Argo]

Wow. This type of comment, I will never understand. We need MORE information from CFL nuts, not less, and then when we get it? Honestly, I don't know you but I can honestly venture that he watches more PRACTISES than you do games. "Out to lunch" "Clueless?" C'mon man, really?


Hey - to each his own pal. If you would like me to dig up some of this guy's past commentary and point out some cluelessness, I could do so i guess.

Lots of CFL fans can't stand Rod Black as a CFL play-by-play guy; but because he has the gig does that make him sort of inscrutable expert? And I liked Glen Suitor as a player, but as a CFL commentator he is terrible - cliches galore and repetitive. Am i not allowed to say i wish TSN had way better than these guys?

Let me guess - you're sticking up for guys who have media jobs? And us know nothing joe average fans shouldn't dare question these expert pros ?

[Neely2005]

Marshall Ferguson = guy makes me laugh; i get he's a CFL commentator and tries hard i guess; but he's right out to lunch with a lot of his commentary on the CFL; yeah, I know he's a former CIS player, but he is just clueless at times with some of the stuff he says.

Marshall Ferguson is probably my favourite CFL commentator. He really cares about the CFL and talks about the league on air more than anyone else I know. If you follow him on Twitter you'll see that he puts a lot of time and thought into analyzing the players and the league. He's constantly creating spreadsheets and statistical breakdowns of the players. You may not agree with his analysis and opinions but he's exactly the type of media personality that we need more of!

If you want to talk about people saying ridiculous things, how about coach June Jones saying that Manziel would be the best player to ever play in the CFL?

[Jon Gonzo]

Hey - to each his own pal. If you would like me to dig up some of this guy's past commentary and point out some cluelessness, I could do so i guess.

Lots of CFL fans can't stand Rod Black as a CFL play-by-play guy; but because he has the gig does that make him sort of inscrutable expert? And I liked Glen Suitor as a player, but as a CFL commentator he is terrible - cliches galore and repetitive. Am i not allowed to say i wish TSN had way better than these guys?

Let me guess - you're sticking up for guys who have media jobs? And us know nothing joe average fans shouldn't dare question these expert pros ?

Well, we could do that for all of us I'd venture to guess, couldn't we? Anyone brave enough with an opinion. This is a comment board, it's all about comment and opinion, but there is a difference between taking on someone point by point and disagreeing, or calling them a moron, or clueless, or whatever name you want to hand them because it may make you feel good.

I'll ask you this, and this is not a media vs. regular fan thing: Do you put more stock the nameless guy on a message board who calls others names, or do you find more credence with the x-CIU QB, who has a reputation at stake, who studies game film, goes to countless practices, games and combines, writes and offers expert opinion live on radio and tv -- because he is sought after by other sports experts and people who want to hear his opinion.

Hmmmmmmmm?

[OV Argo]

Well, we could do that for all of us I'd venture to guess, couldn't we? Anyone brave enough with an opinion. This is a comment board, it's all about comment and opinion, but there is a difference between taking on someone point by point and disagreeing, or calling them a moron, or clueless, or whatever name you want to hand them because it may make you feel good.

I'll ask you this, and this is not a media vs. regular fan thing: Do you put more stock the nameless guy on a message board who calls others names, or do you find more credence with the x-CIU QB, who has a reputation at stake, who studies game film, goes to countless practices, games and combines, writes and offers expert opinion live on radio and tv -- because he is sought after by other sports experts and people who want to hear his opinion.

Hmmmmmmmm?


As I've said before here, probably many times: IMO - there are so many more intelligent, well spoken, knowledgeable football fans (and commentators) to be found on these various fan forums - if you can wade thru all the varied comments/opinions - than there are in the Canadian football reporting set; and (IMO only again) - there are very few sharp, very knowledgeable, well spoken football reporters who cover the CFL or Canadian game regularly. Duane Forde and Mike Hogan would be 2 of the very good ones IMO; Marshall Ferguson & Justin Dunk are definitely not, IMO. Sorry bout that. But I'd much rather here what some of the veteran posters I know from here (and a couple of other CFL forums) have to say on CFL football over Ferguson; these other, non-paid, un-named, internet forum guys (maybe some can't respect that - so be it) just know way more about football than the likes of Ferguson.

[Jon Gonzo]

As I've said before here, probably many times: IMO - there are so many more intelligent, well spoken, knowledgeable football fans (and commentators) to be found on these various fan forums - if you can wade thru all the varied comments/opinions - than there are in the Canadian football reporting set; and (IMO only again) - there are very few sharp, very knowledgeable, well spoken football reporters who cover the CFL or Canadian game regularly. Duane Forde and Mike Hogan would be 2 of the very good ones IMO; Marshall Ferguson & Justin Dunk are definitely not, IMO. Sorry bout that. But I'd much rather here what some of the veteran posters I know from here (and a couple of other CFL forums) have to say on CFL football over Ferguson; these other, non-paid, un-named, internet forum guys (maybe some can't respect that - so be it) just know way more about football than the likes of Ferguson.

P1 - Did you hear about the wolf pack who ate their own young?
P2 - No?

We don't have enough of this. People who write, blogg, and offer their opinion about the Canadian Football League. More, not less. I read it all, including your offerings, and although I may disagree from time to time, I don't/and won't call you clueless. All of it is needed, especially in and around Toronto.

[OV Argo]

P1 - Did you hear about the wolf pack who ate their own young?
P2 - No?

We don't have enough of this. People who write, blogg, and offer their opinion about the Canadian Football League. More, not less. I read it all, including your offerings, and although I may disagree from time to time, I don't/and won't call you clueless. All of it is needed, especially in and around Toronto.

OK - agreed - the CFL can use much more attention and get reported on better - spread news and opinions about the league.

And you're OK with a veteran journalist like Steve Simmons who's been getting a big stage to write clueless drivel (that's exactly what it is) about various sports for years & years & years now ? I guess the media types who keep publishing this blowhard are right and the fact that he's kept his job must mean he is some sort of sport authority or expert ??? It's IMO his types who have played a big role in the lack of respect problem the CFL has been facing for a long time now; snickering, mocking or constantly negative reporting on the league ... because it's a Canadian institution that doesn't deserve the fawning attention his types lavish on whatever wannabe, over-hyped, all-American or "World Class" stuff that sheep follow or his editors tell him to spend time on?

Is garbage journalism or dumb, totally biased or clueless opinion really needed ? All of it ???

[Jon Gonzo]

OK - agreed - the CFL can use much more attention and get reported on better - spread news and opinions about the league.

And you're OK with a veteran journalist like Steve Simmons who's been getting a big stage to write clueless drivel (that's exactly what it is) about various sports for years & years & years now ? I guess the media types who keep publishing this blowhard are right and the fact that he's kept his job must mean he is some sort of sport authority or expert ??? It's IMO his types who have played a big role in the lack of respect problem the CFL has been facing for a long time now; snickering, mocking or constantly negative reporting on the league ... because it's a Canadian institution that doesn't deserve the fawning attention his types lavish on whatever wannabe, over-hyped, all-American or "World Class" stuff that sheep follow or his editors tell him to spend time on?

Is garbage journalism or dumb, totally biased or clueless opinion really needed ? All of it ???

The CFL fans/bloggers/writers I speak of are nearly the exact opposites of Steve Simmons who probably never attends a combine, watches game film or could even offer a cogent sentence regarding the future prospects of the Canadian Football League. I am talking about people who put the work in. I WANT what they have to offer because I can't be at the practices, the CIU games or the combines. Simmons wouldn't be caught dead there.

[Neely2005]

Isn't Steve Simmons an Argonauts Season Ticket Holder?

[argolio]

Good call. It has been 30 years. I cite Tony Mandarich, who came out of Michigan State as the 'greatest O-Line Prospect ever.' He was taken by the Packers 2nd overall and taken in the CFL Draft at pick #54 by the BC LionsEveryone knew that Mandarich would go high in the 1989 NFL draft, otherwise he would have gone much earlier than #54 in the 1988 CFL draft. It was Canadian players who weren't considered NFL prospects but signed there that led to changing the date of the CFL draft.

[AngeloV]

Isn't Steve Simmons an Argonauts Season Ticket Holder?

Yes.

Admittedly, I've had feelings about Simmons in the past that were not positive, but once I started hearing him on radio, and on the old reporters show, I changed my tune on him. Though I don't always agree with his opinions, I like reading his writings, and listening to him whenever he's on the air.

[paulwoods13]

It's like clockwork around here, another argument springing up about who is and isn't clueless about the CFL. Must be the first day of spring.

[OV Argo]

It's like clockwork around here, another argument springing up about who is and isn't clueless about the CFL. Must be the first day of spring.

What happened on Groundhog Day anyways?

Let's do a little poll here: if you want to find out detailed news/information or read varied & knowledgeable opinions, (I'm not talking about just breaking some news, but detail and intelligent analysis or opinion) on the CFL, which source do you go to first or trust more:

a) officialdom media sources - newspapers, sport radio, the CFL.ca site, Bob McCown, Steve Simmons, Justin Dunk types ,

or,

b) a CFL fan forum type site (which do often include links to media sources) - eg. here, or Riderfans. or Lionbackers, and that features dozens (or hundreds) of internet keyboard warriors ;o) posting CFL thoughts - who mostly aren't providing their real name


There's a clear-cut, overwhelming winner for me on this one. And IMO, I could name probably 50 or more football commentators from source b) who I feel are way sharper writers and more knowledgeable about football/ the CFL than just about anybody from group a) (with a couple of exceptions maybe)

[Argofan_1000]

Good call. It has been 30 years. I cite Tony Mandarich, who came out of Michigan State as the 'greatest O-Line Prospect ever.' He was taken by the Packers 2nd overall and taken in the CFL Draft at pick #54 by the BC Lions

Argos can talk to him about what it will take to sign him since we have the first pick. If he does not want to commit then dont pick him

[argolio]

Doing a bit of research, the 1986 draft should have alerted the league that things were changing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_CFL_Draft
#1 - Kent Warnock spent 1986 trying to make the Steelers as a free agent. Came to the CFL in '87, played eight years.
#2 - Rueben Mayes drafted by the Saints in the 3rd round, spent his pro career in the NFL.
#3 - Markus Koch drafted in the 2nd round by Washington, spent his pro career in the NFL. That one really hurt the Argos.
#4 - Mike Schad drafted in the first round by the Rams, spent eight years in the NFL, played one year in the CFL.

The #7 pick, Brian Belway, played a game in the NFL during the 1987 strike. I remember getting excited when the Argos signed him midseason in 89 or 90. He was cut a week or two later.

[paulwoods13]

Cool research, argolio.

[OV Argo]

Very cool research - particularly with that 86 draft year.

NFL interest in top Canadian players has been around for a long time though; mostly US college ball trained guys though - like Jim Corrigall; but then, gradually, the NFL started to take notice of some top Canadian college ball talent. Brian Fryar, John Priestner, Dan Fereday were all drafted before Schad became a 1st round NFL prospect/talent.

Why did it take the CFL so long to switch their draft date to before the NFL one, so they could scope out interest in Canadian players ?

And a lot of NFL interest now is more casual, cursory looks via a rookie mini-camp. Lots of Canadian guys get to attend some sort of NFL camp amongst huge numbers of players there, but few of them get signed.

The whole blab now from GOBs and their dupes - "we're losing so much talent to the NFL, means we have to reduce Canadian content" is a pile of bull$hite / excuse for more American content that they favor. The Canadian pool /source of talent is bigger, better and deeper than ever = there's plenty of Canadian talent to stock a 10 team CFL and have the majority of rosters Canadian - and the calibre of play would not be affected one iota (and might get better) ; GOBs certainly don't want to hear that opinion though.

[R.J]

Canadian OL Shane Richards sent home from CFL combine
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/23/canadian-ol-shane-richards-sent-home-from-cfl-combine/

I didn't realize Hardaway was this kids agent, so in saying that I hope the Argonauts avoid Richards in the Draft (if he's available in later rounds, then maybe). Saxelid would be my first choice now, followed by Betts, Smith, or Wilkinson I suppose.

I wonder if Kongbo ends up getting picked in the first 2 rounds, hell of a talent, but injuries and his potential pursuit of the NFL will see him drop I would think.

[Argo57]

Not sure why players even show up if they aren’t willing to participate in the drills?
Poor optics.

[jerrym]

Canadian OL Shane Richards sent home from CFL combine
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/23/canadian-ol-shane-richards-sent-home-from-cfl-combine/


I wonder if Kongbo ends up getting picked in the first 2 rounds, hell of a talent, but injuries and his potential pursuit of the NFL will see him drop I would think.

Considering how things have went with those factors and his stated pursuit of a NFL career and NFL interest in him, I also doubt he will not get picked in the first two rounds, and with his injury history, it could be significantly later.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Good conversation with <a href="https://twitter.com/King_Kongbo?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@King_Kongbo</a> who is making good strides with ACL recovery. Expects to be able to fully participate in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFL</a> mini-camps or <a href="https://twitter.com/CFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CFL</a> training camp. Strong interest from <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/49ers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#49ers</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cardinals</a> as late draft pick or possibly UDFA. Kongbo open to options in both leagues</p>&mdash; Farhan Lalji (@FarhanLaljiTSN) <a href="https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN/status/1108435809319956480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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[Argo57]

I would like to see the Argos use a late round pick on a Canadian QB (O’Connor or Merchant) if one of them are available.

[paulwoods13]

I would like to see the Argos use a late round pick on a Canadian QB (O’Connor or Merchant) if one of them are available.

I would not wait that long. I'd take whichever of the two is better (I'm guessing O'Connor) no later than our first pick in Round 3.

[Argo57]

I would not wait that long. I'd take whichever of the two is better (I'm guessing O'Connor) no later than our first pick in Round 3.

Probably right Paul, point being with the lack of talent at the position I wouldn’t want to miss out on one of these guys.

[Wobbler]

Not sure why players even show up if they aren’t willing to participate in the drills?
Poor optics.
Interviews are huge (and free of wear-and-tear). If the career prospects of the previous interview-and-run guys were harmed, it isn't obvious.

[OV Argo]

I would not wait that long. I'd take whichever of the two is better (I'm guessing O'Connor) no later than our first pick in Round 3.

So, Popp and the Argos would entertain the notion of 3 Canadian QBs to get a real shot to compete in TC ? O'Connor or Merchant added to go with Bridge & Picton ?

Could be i guess, but I'll believe pigs flying first.

A number of CFL teams have huge QB depth / need for TC competition now - Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton, Riders, BC, Calgary ... if any of those teams have even the slightest respect for Canadian QBs getting a look, they will be up for drafting those guys = we shall see. Wonder why none of them bothered to try to sign Laval QB Hugo Richard ? - before the Als did when they had easily the already deepest QB depth chart in the league - Manzier (before he got punted) and 4 other QBs with CFL playing experience (Adams, Pipkin, Matthews & Shiltz).

O'Connor, Richard or Merchant could easily be competing for the #2 job or #3 at least, on some of those CFL teams. They won't be.

[Argo57]

So, Popp and the Argos would entertain the notion of 3 Canadian QBs to get a real shot to compete in TC ? O'Connor or Merchant added to go with Bridge & Picton ?

Could be i guess, but I'll believe pigs flying first.

A number of CFL teams have huge QB depth / need for TC competition now - Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton, Riders, BC, Calgary ... if any of those teams have even the slightest respect for Canadian QBs getting a look, they will be up for drafting those guys = we shall see. Wonder why none of them bothered to try to sign Laval QB Hugo Richard ? - before the Als did when they had easily the already deepest QB depth chart in the league - Manzier (before he got punted) and 4 other QBs with CFL playing experience (Adams, Pipkin, Matthews & Shiltz).

O'Connor, Richard or Merchant could easily be competing for the #2 job or #3 at least, on some of those CFL teams. They won't be.

Will the Argos draft one of the available QB’s maybe maybe not, should they....absolutely!
The Bridge signing did nothing for me TBH, not sure he will ever develop into a reliable CFL QB.
Sadly Picton’s size may keep him from getting a chance to prove himself, time will tell.

[CFLfan]

So, Popp and the Argos would entertain the notion of 3 Canadian QBs to get a real shot to compete in TC ? O'Connor or Merchant added to go with Bridge & Picton ?

Could be i guess, but I'll believe pigs flying first.

A number of CFL teams have huge QB depth / need for TC competition now - Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton, Riders, BC, Calgary ... if any of those teams have even the slightest respect for Canadian QBs getting a look, they will be up for drafting those guys = we shall see. Wonder why none of them bothered to try to sign Laval QB Hugo Richard ? - before the Als did when they had easily the already deepest QB depth chart in the league - Manzier (before he got punted) and 4 other QBs with CFL playing experience (Adams, Pipkin, Matthews & Shiltz).

O'Connor, Richard or Merchant could easily be competing for the #2 job or #3 at least, on some of those CFL teams. They won't be.

The TSN analysts reporting at the combine were saying that O'Connor would be the only QB to get a legit shot. They say he has the resume, in other words he has played in the NCAA, was recruited in high school to do his final 2 years at a US high school.
The other guys may look impressive at combines when they are only measuring speed, agility, strength but when it comes to reading defenses, learning plays, they are lacking. The CIS QBs have only thrown passes into defenses with Canadian only DBs and been chased down by CIS D linemen. The CFL is a huge step up when they have to face experienced CFL defenses, ex-NFL, ex-NCAA players.

As for going after Betts as the first pick - "All Betts are off"

[OV Argo]

Hey, it's that troll from over at the 3 Down site comments gallery. Spam alert.

[AngeloV]

The TSN analysts reporting at the combine were saying that O'Connor would be the only QB to get a legit shot. They say he has the resume, in other words he has played in the NCAA, was recruited in high school to do his final 2 years at a US high school.
The other guys may look impressive at combines when they are only measuring speed, agility, strength but when it comes to reading defenses, learning plays, they are lacking. The CIS QBs have only thrown passes into defenses with Canadian only DBs and been chased down by CIS D linemen. The CFL is a huge step up when they have to face experienced CFL defenses, ex-NFL, ex-NCAA players.

As for going after Betts as the first pick - "All Betts are off"

Dude, you do realize that 95% of NCAA players are deemed not good enough to play in the pros, right? How many former Alabama QB's make it to the pros compared to FCS (1AA) or even div II schools? If your argument was valid, every Alabama QB for the last 20 years would be good to great pro QB's.

If a QB is good enough, and a team has patience to develop, reading defences at the pro level will come to them no matter where they played college ball.

[doubleblue]

Looks like Matt Betts is aiming to be in a NFL camp this summer. Laval held their own pro day and he has probably been told that he will be a FA signing down there at least.
So that ship has sailed and I'm all not that disappointed after watching the Combine on the week end. With all the WR talent this year and just average good Offensive Line prospects I believe Jim Popp will select a receiver now at #1. Hergy Mayala of U Conn and Justin McInnis of Arkansas State are rated the top two and have their pro days this week. But after seeing the talent on display yesterday I doubt those two are much better than some of the players we saw at the CFL Combine.
I really like this big guy Brady Lenius-Dickey out of New Mexico who came in at 6'5 1/4" 243 and ran a 4.7 forty caught everything with soft hands thrown his way in the one on ones. But then there is Chris Osei-Kusi out of Queens 6' 1/2" 192 4.4 forty who also showed good moves and hands. To me Osei-Kusi would be the best fit for the Argos and come in an learn the pro game behind Walker, but it would be nice to get them both but I can't see that happening. Then at #9 one of O Linemen Saxelid, Wilkinson, Williams or Gibbon should still be there.
Then at #18 and #21 could be time to take a flyer on one of NFL signees (Kobongo)? and good special teams type guy (Sopik)?. So what could go wrong?
Well, how could we forget the first two picks a couple of years ago Mason Woods and Evan Foster. But Cross, Woodson, Onyeka and Herdman were good later round picks. Alls well that ends well.
Last year was pretty good if Hunter and Cibasu eventually get here and produce.

[doubleblue]

Doing a bit of research, the 1986 draft should have alerted the league that things were changing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_CFL_Draft
#1 - Kent Warnock spent 1986 trying to make the Steelers as a free agent. Came to the CFL in '87, played eight years.
#2 - Rueben Mayes drafted by the Saints in the 3rd round, spent his pro career in the NFL.
#3 - Markus Koch drafted in the 2nd round by Washington, spent his pro career in the NFL. That one really hurt the Argos.
#4 - Mike Schad drafted in the first round by the Rams, spent eight years in the NFL, played one year in the CFL.

The #7 pick, Brian Belway, played a game in the NFL during the 1987 strike. I remember getting excited when the Argos signed him midseason in 89 or 90. He was cut a week or two later.

Seeing Reuben Mayes mentioned reminds me of how he got to Washington State which led to his career in the NFL. The story goes that Hugh Campbell was in his office in Edmonton and the Head Coach of Washington State Jim Walden was there visiting him. The phone rang from someone telling Hugh about this kid in North Battleford Saskatchewan named Reuben Mayes. From that phone call Reuben Mayes ended up at Washington State and as they say the rest is History.

Reuben had a son Logan who played a couple of years at Washington State as a LB and then transferred to Cal Poly where he ended up as a 6'2 250 starting DE. I believe his Senior year was 2015 so he has probably moved on in life but he would still be only 25 or 26 now. He would qualify to be a National now if he was to give CFL football a try. I'm sure Rick Campbell in Ottawa would have been well aware of that.

[OV Argo]

Looks like Matt Betts is aiming to be in a NFL camp this summer. Laval held their own pro day and he has probably been told that he will be a FA signing down there at least.
So that ship has sailed and I'm all not that disappointed after watching the Combine on the week end. With all the WR talent this year and just average good Offensive Line prospects I believe Jim Popp will select a receiver now at #1. Hergy Mayala of U Conn and Justin McInnis of Arkansas State are rated the top two and have their pro days this week. But after seeing the talent on display yesterday I doubt those two are much better than some of the players we saw at the CFL Combine.
I really like this big guy Brady Lenius-Dickey out of New Mexico who came in at 6'5 1/4" 243 and ran a 4.7 forty caught everything with soft hands thrown his way in the one on ones. But then there is Chris Osei-Kusi out of Queens 6' 1/2" 192 4.4 forty who also showed good moves and hands. To me Osei-Kusi would be the best fit for the Argos and come in an learn the pro game behind Walker, but it would be nice to get them both but I can't see that happening. Then at #9 one of O Linemen Saxelid, Wilkinson, Williams or Gibbon should still be there.
Then at #18 and #21 could be time to take a flyer on one of NFL signees (Kobongo)? and good special teams type guy (Sopik)?. So what could go wrong?
Well, how could we forget the first two picks a couple of years ago Mason Woods and Evan Foster. But Cross, Woodson, Onyeka and Herdman were good later round picks. Alls well that ends well.
Last year was pretty good if Hunter and Cibasu eventually get here and produce.


What is the deal with Cibasu anyways? - why is he not signed yet - and that needs to be known before going into this draft ???

As far as using one of the top picks on another receiver ? - why bother , unless Cibasu is not coming for sure, plus the team has little faith in Noel or Coombs ? Maybe if they think one of those receivers is an instant starter, PLUS they are quite open to starting at least 2 Canadian receivers - then maybe. It is a very good receiver crop this draft IMO - those 2 US college ball guys McInnis & Mayala, but also several star U Sports receivers are up there (and maybe better) - K.J Grant, K. Gittens in particular, but also the likes of Osei-Kusi (blazing 40 time might get him a bit over-rated though - all-time CFL Combine 40 hand held time was set by Steven Turner who i don't think ever played a down in the CFL); Hunter Karl (Dinos) and Malik Richards (Mount A) and Colton Hunchak (York) are all athletic, plus put up good receiving #s in college ball.

Might be better to use the top pick on an O-lineman; I woulda said Betts for sure if there was no NFL flight risk - possible instant starter at DE - a big area of need.

[paulwoods13]

What is the deal with Cibasu anyways? - why is he not signed yet - and that needs to be known before going into this draft ???

As far as using one of the top picks on another receiver ? - why bother , unless Cibasu is not coming for sure, plus the team has little faith in Noel or Coombs ? Maybe if they think one of those receivers is an instant starter, PLUS they are quite open to starting at least 2 Canadian receivers - then maybe. It is a very good receiver crop this draft IMO



I think you answered your own question. If the draft's strongest position is receiver, why not take the best player available even if he's a receiver? Yes, it's a position of decent depth for the Argos, but picks and current players are also assets that can get something else. If Cibasu signs (and I expect he will), and if we end up spending a high pick on a receiver, too many NAT receivers is a nice problem to have. Someone could be traded for a position of greater need that isn't deep in this year's draft.

[Wobbler]

Agreed, OV. I think we will (and should) go OL.

Crystal ball mode activated:
1) Another team is desperate to get their favourite receiver and compensates us to drop down a few spots... where we'd still get an excellent interior lineman prospect
2) Cibasu signs before camp after failing to attract serious NFL interest (didn't get much last year despite good stats and a E-W Shrine Bowl appearance, so this seems likely)
3) Hunter shows up late in the year after KC drafts at least one OL and cuts him

[Argo57]

Agreed, OV. I think we will (and should) go OL.

Crystal ball mode activated:
1) Another team is desperate to get their favourite receiver and compensates us to drop down a few spots... where we'd still get an excellent interior lineman prospect
2) Cibasu signs before camp after failing to attract serious NFL interest (didn't get much last year despite good stats and a E-W Shrine Bowl appearance, so this seems likely)
3) Hunter shows up late in the year after KC drafts at least one OL and cuts him

I’ve said all along trading down maybe a good strategy and allow the Argos to fill some more holes on the roster.

[OV Argo]

I think you answered your own question. If the draft's strongest position is receiver, why not take the best player available even if he's a receiver? Yes, it's a position of decent depth for the Argos, but picks and current players are also assets that can get something else. If Cibasu signs (and I expect he will), and if we end up spending a high pick on a receiver, too many NAT receivers is a nice problem to have. Someone could be traded for a position of greater need that isn't deep in this year's draft.


Sure would be nice to have a bunch of quality NI receivers; but how many do the Argos plan to play?

Receiver position group = 5 starting positions; and O-line = 5 starting positions. Didn't the Argos mostly start 4 at O-line and only one at receiver last year - and this could be the plan going forward? Doesn't it make sense to have more talent/depth at positions where you plan to deploy the guys ?

Cibasu may show up: i really doubt Hunter will anytime soon.

They maybe should be tempted to use a high draft pick on a DE like Robbie Smith maybe (given Betts and Kabongo are likely write-offs) and hope Smith can contribute right away - in a big area of need.

[Shatto]

Several GM's and others have mentioned the depth of this year's group. At one time or another different players have been identified as really good prospects. It was interesting to hear an opinion voiced that Desjardins could develop into a better pro player than his teammate Betts. High praise indeed.

Most felt receivers were the highlight of the combine. It is hard to disagree when you view their stats and 1 on 1's. There was excellent speed, size and finesse on show. Even with some high prospects absent, there appears to be several, who could be drafted in the first round. IMO, Lenius-Dickey at over 6' 5", 243lbs, running 4.75 and demonstrating good moves and soft hands was a surprise big riser in the draft.

The OL was also very deep in both quality and quantity. Teams will be going over the films carefully as a very good prospect could well be available in the 3rd or 4th round. Most of the more highly touted players performed up to expectations but many others not ranked in the December 20 top prospect list (Saxelid, Williams, Gibbons, Desjarlais, Harke, Guthrie) performed very well during the combine.

There was not as many DL players that stood out but three performed well enough to be considered for a 1st or at least a 2nd round selection (Smith, Dejardins and Sanelli) according to different individuals, who commented during the combine.

When one adds the players who did not attend the combine or in the case of two players, who only agreed to be part of the interviews not the testing, this really is a very deep draft and we may see later round selections becoming a starters at one time or another during their career.

[paulwoods13]

Sure would be nice to have a bunch of quality NI receivers; but how many do the Argos plan to play?

Receiver position group = 5 starting positions; and O-line = 5 starting positions. Didn't the Argos mostly start 4 at O-line and only one at receiver last year - and this could be the plan going forward? Doesn't it make sense to have more talent/depth at positions where you plan to deploy the guys ?

Cibasu may show up: i really doubt Hunter will anytime soon.



I'm on record as wanting to come out of this draft with some o-line prospects, and I expect we will. But I don't believe in drafting to fill position needs at the top of the draft, if the gap in quality is too high. In other words, if the best player on the board grades at 85 (say) and the best player at your position of need grades at 75 (say), you take the former and use your full basket of assets to enhance your depth at the latter position.

I agree Hunter likely will not be here for another couple of years (unfortunately).

[gilthethrill]

Sure would be nice to have a bunch of quality NI receivers; but how many do the Argos plan to play?

Receiver position group = 5 starting positions; and O-line = 5 starting positions. Didn't the Argos mostly start 4 at O-line and only one at receiver last year - and this could be the plan going forward? Doesn't it make sense to have more talent/depth at positions where you plan to deploy the guys ?

Cibasu may show up: i really doubt Hunter will anytime soon.

They maybe should be tempted to use a high draft pick on a DE like Robbie Smith maybe (given Betts and Kabongo are likely write-offs) and hope Smith can contribute right away - in a big area of need.

I recall Popp in a recent interveiw commenting "We have Cibasu"...now what that means is subject to interpretation. I agree with Paul Woods, make the online 1st priority, draft a highly rated CIS kid 1st overall, who will come immediately and contribute. Although either Robbie Smith or that DT from UBC (his name escapes me) would be solid additions as well at #9.

[paulwoods13]

I agree with Paul Woods, make the online 1st priority, draft a highly rated CIS kid 1st overall, who will come immediately and contribute.

For the record I did not say that, exactly. I did say earlier that o-line has to be a huge priority for us, but with the first overall pick I believe we should take the best player of any position whom we have a reasonable chance of signing this year. And I don't care where he went to school.

[gilthethrill]

For the record I did not say that, exactly. I did say earlier that o-line has to be a huge priority for us, but with the first overall pick I believe we should take the best player of any position whom we have a reasonable chance of signing this year. And I don't care where he went to school.

Sorry Paul, error on my behalf.

[OV Argo]

Several GM's and others have mentioned the depth of this year's group. At one time or another different players have been identified as really good prospects. It was interesting to hear an opinion voiced that Desjardins could develop into a better pro player than his teammate Betts. High praise indeed.

Most felt receivers were the highlight of the combine. It is hard to disagree when you view their stats and 1 on 1's. There was excellent speed, size and finesse on show. Even with some high prospects absent, there appears to be several, who could be drafted in the first round. IMO, Lenius-Dickey at over 6' 5", 243lbs, running 4.75 and demonstrating good moves and soft hands was a surprise big riser in the draft.

The OL was also very deep in both quality and quantity. Teams will be going over the films carefully as a very good prospect could well be available in the 3rd or 4th round. Most of the more highly touted players performed up to expectations but many others not ranked in the December 20 top prospect list (Saxelid, Williams, Gibbons, Desjarlais, Harke, Guthrie) performed very well during the combine.

There was not as many DL players that stood out but three performed well enough to be considered for a 1st or at least a 2nd round selection (Smith, Dejardins and Sanelli) according to different individuals, who commented during the combine.


When one adds the players who did not attend the combine or in the case of two players, who only agreed to be part of the interviews not the testing, this really is a very deep draft and we may see later round selections becoming a starters at one time or another during their career.


Interesting On Desjardins at DT - all-star with Laval and a very good player, but for a scout to say he might be a better pro than Betts? - seems like way over the top stuff and a bit of an insult to the all-time great college ball resume Betts has (and his superb set of Combine testing #s) - maybe a "scout" who is not impressed that Betts skipped the CFL Combine as an uppity NI looking to go NFL? Be interesting to see what that scout thought of Ettore Lattanzio coming out of CIS ball with arguably the better resume than Desjardins (Lattanzio won the Metras (like Betts did 3 straight times !!!) - Lattanzio, like Desjardins was an under-sized DT (260 range), and he did not go high in the CFL draft, and the Bombers who drafted him applied GOB myopia to try to convert him to fullback; didn't work out and Ottawa was able to scoop the hometown guy and when he has got a chance to play DT, he has been very effective IMO in the rotation - a quick, strong DT; not many under-sized NI DTs get a CFL shot (Finley is another one who has played well), and maybe Desjardins could be another one who makes a mark on the right team ?

Leinus Dickey seems like an interesting receiver prospect, but again, if you go by current CFL thinking & evidence, there are not many big body Canadian inside or slot receivers (outside of Sinopoli) getting to play in the league now; Brian Jones had as good or better CFL Combine testing #s and he has had a very limited playing role in a CFL receiving corps. Love to see a few more CFL teams go back to the big target, tough, good hands slotback though (Elgaard, DiPietro, Crifo types). Doubt it happens anytime soon.

O-line & receiver do look like real strong groups for this draft. Might be 10 or more from those two position groups taken in the first 2 rounds ?

[Shatto]

Sorry, there was no intent to imply that Desjardins "would" become a better pro player than Betts but rather the comment made about Desjardins potential, was simply an indication, of how many of this year's participants, were viewed very highly, by "knowledgeable individuals". Betts's combine results were outstanding but a player like Smith, though some 10lbs lighter, put up figures close to those of Betts. The high standards of this year's combine was noted by many of the pundits. Geroy Simon commented on exactly that.

Lenius-Dickey has stated he intends to compete at 220lbs. This would put him close to the size of Sinopli. With his speed, smooth moves and soft hands, he could be a very attractive player, especially if he drops to the 2nd or 3rd round.

With so many highly regarded players available for the draft, it would seem to be a unadvisable to select any player who is drafted by the NFL or even given a FA contract. A player like Betts, no matter how potentially attractive, might never come to the CFL or may come several years later. With so many talented players available, it would be an error to pass them up, for the outside chance a player like Betts, even if undrafted, may come to the league at some future time.

The only other point I'll make, is that is with so much potential talent this year, it seems a strange time to be reducing the number of starting Canadians but I'll admit a bias on this issue.

[OV Argo]

Interesting scenario for sure - with supposed very good talent up this draft; but the CFL maybe wanting to reduce Canadian content on rosters, specifically starters.

The trendy CFL has evolved to way less Canadians getting to play receiver now in the league; a lot of teams have only one NI starter in their 5 pack; so some of the good receiver prospects this draft may be $hite out of luck for a chance to compete for actual playing time and may have even less chance to make a roster. We'll see if any of them get to play some receiver in this new CFL this coming season. Two of the top rated receivers this draft - McInnis & Mayala - both out of Div 1 US college ball - were not at the Combine.

[paulwoods13]

The only other point I'll make, is that is with so much potential talent this year, it seems a strange time to be reducing the number of starting Canadians but I'll admit a bias on this issue.

Which, just as a reminder, has not happened or been confirmed yet, despite thousands of posts on social media seeming to accept a "per sources" report as a given. I did note that two journalists with a well-established track record of getting insider information, Naylor and Scianitti, said last week that nothing related to roster rules has been agreed to at the table. (Which comes as no surprise since there's no way an issue that big and valuable to both parties would be decided in the first two weeks of bargaining.)

[doubleblue]

Sorry, there was no intent to imply that Desjardins "would" become a better pro player than Betts but rather the comment made about Desjardins potential, was simply an indication, of how many of this year's participants, were viewed very highly, by "knowledgeable individuals". Betts's combine results were outstanding but a player like Smith, though some 10lbs lighter, put up figures close to those of Betts. The high standards of this year's combine was noted by many of the pundits. Geroy Simon commented on exactly that.

Lenius-Dickey has stated he intends to compete at 220lbs. This would put him close to the size of Sinopli. With his speed, smooth moves and soft hands, he could be a very attractive player, especially if he drops to the 2nd or 3rd round.

With so many highly regarded players available for the draft, it would seem to be a unadvisable to select any player who is drafted by the NFL or even given a FA contract. A player like Betts, no matter how potentially attractive, might never come to the CFL or may come several years later. With so many talented players available, it would be an error to pass them up, for the outside chance a player like Betts, even if undrafted, may come to the league at some future time.

The only other point I'll make, is that is with so much potential talent this year, it seems a strange time to be reducing the number of starting Canadians but I'll admit a bias on this issue.

Just for the record OV that Montreal "Scout" was 6'8 350 pound Miles Gorrell. Just a heads up. Lol

IMO Desjardins will be the better DT and Betts the better DE.

I hadn't heard that about Lenius-Dickey wanting to play at 220. I think he should stay up around 235. He's pretty well put together. I would love to see the Argos get him but as Popp said "we have Cibasu". So they may want to go with a more speed guy like Osei-Kusi or Julien-Grant.

So just for fun and a case for argument, I drew up a little mock draft last night for the Argos.

#1 - WR - Chris Osei-Kusi 6' 1/2" 192 (has 4.4 speed good hands and seems like a good character guy)
#9 - OT - Kyle Saxelid 6' 7" 299 (long arms and good foot work for a CFL OT, will be good in the community)
#18 - DT - Thomas Grant 6' 5 3/4" 290 (great size, ran a 5.01 forty, more depth behind Laing)
#21 - LB/S - Fraser Sopik 6' 0 194" (a tackling machine for special teams)
#27 - DB - Hakeem Johnson 6' 1/2" 193 (Matt Black retiring needs more depth)
#36 - DB - Shamar Busby 5' 9 1/2" 190 (more DB depth and special teams)
#45 - OG - Greg Bouchard 6' 2" 314 (depth at guard and maybe a centre down the road)
#60 - QB/WR - Brett Hunchak 6' 3" 195 (take a flyer on a local guy from York)
FA - LB - Job Reinhart 6' 0 228 (must be a brother of Jake from Guelph)
FA - RB - Levondre Gordon 5'10 190 (another York guy, small but ran a 4.6 forty and benched 21 reps)

[OV Argo]

Which, just as a reminder, has not happened or been confirmed yet, despite thousands of posts on social media seeming to accept a "per sources" report as a given. I did note that two journalists with a well-established track record of getting insider information, Naylor and Scianitti, said last week that nothing related to roster rules has been agreed to at the table. (Which comes as no surprise since there's no way an issue that big and valuable to both parties would be decided in the first two weeks of bargaining.)


And this info or rumour has been out there and drawn lots of attention and debate for over a week now. IF the CFL had any guts on the matter, Ambrosie could have come out with a resounding & definitive NO WAY we are going to reduce Canadian content in this league; but he nor the BOG types have not = I'll bet you anything there is going to be some sort of reduction in Canadian content in the GOB CFL.

[OV Argo]

Just for the record OV that Montreal "Scout" was 6'8 350 pound Miles Gorrell. Just a heads up. Lol

IMO Desjardins will be the better DT and Betts the better DE.

I hadn't heard that about Lenius-Dickey wanting to play at 220. I think he should stay up around 235. He's pretty well put together. I would love to see the Argos get him but as Popp said "we have Cibasu". So they may want to go with a more speed guy like Osei-Kusi or Julien-Grant.

So just for fun and a case for argument, I drew up a little mock draft last night for the Argos.

#1 - WR - Chris Osei-Kusi 6' 1/2" 192 (has 4.4 speed good hands and seems like a good character guy)
#9 - OT - Kyle Saxelid 6' 7" 299 (long arms and good foot work for a CFL OT, will be good in the community)
#18 - DT - Thomas Grant 6' 5 3/4" 290 (great size, ran a 5.01 forty, more depth behind Laing)
#21 - LB/S - Fraser Sopik 6' 0 194" (a tackling machine for special teams)
#27 - DB - Hakeem Johnson 6' 1/2" 193 (Matt Black retiring needs more depth)
#36 - DB - Shamar Busby 5' 9 1/2" 190 (more DB depth and special teams)
#45 - OG - Greg Bouchard 6' 2" 314 (depth at guard and maybe a centre down the road)
#60 - QB/WR - Brett Hunchak 6' 3" 195 (take a flyer on a local guy from York)
FA - LB - Job Reinhart 6' 0 228 (must be a brother of Jake from Guelph)
FA - RB - Levondre Gordon 5'10 190 (another York guy, small but ran a 4.6 forty and benched 21 reps)


Interesting Argo draft list - love to see the Argos get a few of those players. Particularly sort of sleeper types like - Grant - a 6-6, 290 DT and Sopik - under-sized OLB in college ball, but maybe could become a CFL safety with his nose for the ball; Bouchard in the later rounds could be a steal. I really don't believe Osei-Kusi rates the #1 overall pick or even top 4 in this receiver crop; just because he ran the fastest 40 time ?

Of course Betts is a DE & Desjardins a DT - i doubt either plays anywhere else in the CFL; I didn't see Miles' quote or get the context, and both Betts and Desjardins are all-star U Sports players. Somebody could have said Jimmy Ralph was a better pro receiver prospect than Andy Fantuz coming out of college ball and that would be comparable IMO; Fantuz, like Betts, was a dominant, all-star, record setting player from a rookie on in, in college ball. Doesn't mean that type of player is automatically the best pro prospect at his position; but it sure should help get you rated that way.

[j-ski]

Just for the record OV that Montreal "Scout" was 6'8 350 pound Miles Gorrell. Just a heads up. Lol

IMO Desjardins will be the better DT and Betts the better DE.

I hadn't heard that about Lenius-Dickey wanting to play at 220. I think he should stay up around 235. He's pretty well put together. I would love to see the Argos get him but as Popp said "we have Cibasu". So they may want to go with a more speed guy like Osei-Kusi or Julien-Grant.

So just for fun and a case for argument, I drew up a little mock draft last night for the Argos.

#1 - WR - Chris Osei-Kusi 6' 1/2" 192 (has 4.4 speed good hands and seems like a good character guy)
#9 - OT - Kyle Saxelid 6' 7" 299 (long arms and good foot work for a CFL OT, will be good in the community)
#18 - DT - Thomas Grant 6' 5 3/4" 290 (great size, ran a 5.01 forty, more depth behind Laing)
#21 - LB/S - Fraser Sopik 6' 0 194" (a tackling machine for special teams)
#27 - DB - Hakeem Johnson 6' 1/2" 193 (Matt Black retiring needs more depth)
#36 - DB - Shamar Busby 5' 9 1/2" 190 (more DB depth and special teams)
#45 - OG - Greg Bouchard 6' 2" 314 (depth at guard and maybe a centre down the road)
#60 - QB/WR - Brett Hunchak 6' 3" 195 (take a flyer on a local guy from York)
FA - LB - Job Reinhart 6' 0 228 (must be a brother of Jake from Guelph)
FA - RB - Levondre Gordon 5'10 190 (another York guy, small but ran a 4.6 forty and benched 21 reps)

Good list. Levondre Gordon is a Laurier guy. I think he will drafted in later rounds by other teams. I think Fraser Sopik may go in the second round to a team.

[doubleblue]

Good list. Levondre Gordon is a Laurier guy. I think he will drafted in later rounds by other teams. I think Fraser Sopik may go in the second round to a team.

You are correct about Gordon he is out of Laurier. Thanks.

Because of the quality of the first two rounds a team would have to pass over a very good player to take him IMO. I have him #21 early in the 3rd round, but Hamilton could grab him at #20. But yes if some of the no shows for the combine sign down south they could drop to the 3rd and Sopik move up.

[paulwoods13]

And this info or rumour has been out there and drawn lots of attention and debate for over a week now. IF the CFL had any guts on the matter, Ambrosie could have come out with a resounding & definitive NO WAY we are going to reduce Canadian content in this league; but he nor the BOG types have not = I'll bet you anything there is going to be some sort of reduction in Canadian content in the GOB CFL.

The league and the PA agreed not to negotiate in public. By not saying anything, Ambrosie is living up to that agreement and bargaining in good faith. But I guess you are now more inclined to believe Justin Dunk than you ever have before, since his unsourced report confirms your worldview.

[OV Argo]

The league and the PA agreed not to negotiate in public. By not saying anything, Ambrosie is living up to that agreement and bargaining in good faith. But I guess you are now more inclined to believe Justin Dunk than you ever have before, since his unsourced report confirms your worldview.

OK - so you believe in good old boy/ biznessmen negotiating in private is all important. And the Commish of the CFL dare not interfere with that by standing up for a principle? Ok then; we shall see what transpires there - any bets as to wether Canadian content in the CFL gets reduced yet again after these amazing negotiations ?

[Shatto]

Paul, you are absolutely right, there has been no confirmation of any change in the number of starting Canadians by either the league or players. However, when in the Toronto Town Hall, Ambrosie was asked about the ratio, he said something like--that's something to be discussed in negotiations. Thought it was a strange answer at the time but wonder now if it were a portent of a change. I'm hazy on Ambrosie's exact words but his words did leave the impression of something in the works. Perhaps somebody might recollect his exact comment.

Doubleblue--an excellent and well thought out mock draft. We don't know who will still be available when we select 18th/21st/27th but Malcom Lee could be a very good choice any of those selections.

[argolio]

And this info or rumour has been out there and drawn lots of attention and debate for over a week now. IF the CFL had any guts on the matter, Ambrosie could have come out with a resounding & definitive NO WAY we are going to reduce Canadian content in this league; but he nor the BOG types have not = I'll bet you anything there is going to be some sort of reduction in Canadian content in the GOB CFL.Speaking of gutless, if there is a reduction, the Canadian players who control the CFLPA will do what they did with every other ratio change since the 60s -- agree to it without much protest.

[doubleblue]

Paul, you are absolutely right, there has been no confirmation of any change in the number of starting Canadians by either the league or players. However, when in the Toronto Town Hall, Ambrosie was asked about the ratio, he said something like--that's something to be discussed in negotiations. Thought it was a strange answer at the time but wonder now if it were a portent of a change. I'm hazy on Ambrosie's exact words but his words did leave the impression of something in the works. Perhaps somebody might recollect his exact comment.

Doubleblue--an excellent and well thought out mock draft. We don't know who will still be available when we select 18th/21st/27th but Malcom Lee could be a very good choice any of those selections.

I don't think DB's Malcom Lee or Jamie Harry will be available at #18. Lee will be gone for sure. My way of thinking there are about 7 WR's, 6 OL's, 4 DL's, 2 DB's and 2 RB's who could go in the first 2 rounds. 21 players and only 17 picks. After the NFL draft and FA signings some guys will probably drop to the third round. But that didn't stop Popp from taking Ryan Hunter last year. But as OV Argo always says so eloquently, expect the unexpected in the CFL draft. But to be fair, if we knew what they really know about each player it might explain some things.

[paulwoods13]

Paul, you are absolutely right, there has been no confirmation of any change in the number of starting Canadians by either the league or players. However, when in the Toronto Town Hall, Ambrosie was asked about the ratio, he said something like--that's something to be discussed in negotiations. Thought it was a strange answer at the time but wonder now if it were a portent of a change. I'm hazy on Ambrosie's exact words but his words did leave the impression of something in the works. Perhaps somebody might recollect his exact comment.

Your recollection of what he said is basically accurate, but your interpretation of it as a possible portent of change is unnecessarily negative, in my view. There are some basic factors at play here -- labour law dictates that mgmt bargain directly with the certified exclusive bargaining agent for the employees -- not directly with the employees. There were players in the room that night. Had Ambrosie outlined the owners' bargaining position, he would have left the league vulnerable to a complaint from the PA to whichever labour board (presumably Ontario's) has jurisdiction here.

Aside from that, the two sides have both said publicly that they agreed to keep the negotiations behind closed doors. So if either side starts outlining its bargaining position publicly, that agreement is out the window and any desire among the parties to forge any kind of lasting positive relationship (perhaps even the much-mooted "partnership") would be severely threatened.

And then there's the most important factor of all -- this issue has potential to be an incredibly valuable bargaining chip. It's conceivable that both sides will ultimately want the same thing, whatever that is -- maybe fewer NATs on the roster, maybe fewer NAT starters, maybe more of both, who knows? -- but it's extremely unlikely either side will show its hand on this issue until other issues have come into play. Let's say Ambrosie had done what some outraged fans wanted him to do by saying, "We will reduce the number of NAT starters over my dead body." That would have satisfied the pro-NAT crowd among the fans, but it would also have removed a very large chip from his pile, making it harder to negotiate other things he really wants/needs out of this round. Conversely, if he had said, "Of course we plan to reduce the number of NAT starters," he would have revealed his bottom line on a major issue just a week or two into bargaining. How stupid would that be?

The plain fact is that both sides want to negotiate the best possible deal for their constituents, and the best way to do that is not to surrender significant ground -- or put aggressive public stakes in the ground -- at the very outset of the talks.

I have no idea whether mgmt. really wants fewer NAT starters. I've speculated that mgmt. might have planted the story to sow dissension within the player ranks. As I've noted before, the CFLPA has a tough challenge achieving unity among a membership that is so diverse -- NATs and INTs, starters and backups, stars and grunts, vets and kids, "skill" positions and linemen. IMO the league has taken advantage of the lack of player unity in the past to decisively win past rounds of bargaining. It's entirely possible that the league and its very smart lead negotiator tried to emulate that strategy by planting a story that was sure to start players fighting with each other. As we all saw, that's exactly what happened (e.g. Carter/Foley) and in fact that sort of sniping between NATs and INTs has been going on for months on social media. If Georgetti, Ramsey et al can somehow get, and keep, the PA membership aligned with one another, there is a chance the PA can do better than it has done in past rounds of barg. But that's a big "if," and the leak of this alleged agreement may well have been designed to drive more wedges into the PA membership.

[Shatto]

We will have to disagree, that the interpretation of the comments was unnecessarily negative. Yes, perhaps somewhat negative but having experienced first hand, the strategic planning for high level union/management negotiations, I've learned there is no such thing as a throw away line.


As the strategic planning proceeds, the releasing of "leaked" information is definitely a strategy often discussed and deployed by one side or the other. Sometimes the information is solely to test public or membership reaction. Other times it is to sow dissention (as you have mentioned) by dividing, primarily, the union membership. Occasionally, the information is to prepare people for change by suggesting extreme change, only to then to offer less extreme change.


The saying "there is no smoke without fire" aptly fits this situation. It would be surprising if management is not actively suggesting a reduction of Canadian starters, as part of the negotiations, as it meets at least two of management's usual goals --reducing costs and making life easier for management. From a purely personal and subjective viewpoint, it will be disappointing if we see a watering down of Canadian player involvement in our game, either through reducing the Canadian ratio or reducing the number of Canadian starters.

[paulwoods13]

We will have to disagree, that the interpretation of the comments was unnecessarily negative. Yes, perhaps somewhat negative but having experienced first hand, the strategic planning for high level union/management negotiations, I've learned there is no such thing as a throw away line.


As the strategic planning proceeds, the releasing of "leaked" information is definitely a strategy often discussed and deployed by one side or the other. Sometimes the information is solely to test public or membership reaction. Other times it is to sow dissention (as you have mentioned) by dividing, primarily, the union membership. Occasionally, the information is to prepare people for change by suggesting extreme change, only to then to offer less extreme change.


The saying "there is no smoke without fire" aptly fits this situation. It would be surprising if management is not actively suggesting a reduction of Canadian starters, as part of the negotiations, as it meets at least two of management's usual goals --reducing costs and making life easier for management. From a purely personal and subjective viewpoint, it will be disappointing if we see a watering down of Canadian player involvement in our game, either through reducing the Canadian ratio or reducing the number of Canadian starters.

You are 100% right that there are no throwaway lines in these situations. I'm sure he said what he said very deliberately. And it revealed nothing, other than an intention to bargain behind closed doors as agreed.

He had three choices in how he could answer the question: 1. say Yes, 2. say No, 3. say we're not talking about it publicly. The only viable choice under the circumstances was No. 3. Obviously some folks have chosen to believe that No. 3 is a coded way of saying Yes. That's one possible interpretation, but it's certainly not the only one.

As for the "where there's smoke" analogy, there is no smoke coming yet from Dan Ralph, Dan Barnes or other experienced journalists who have a track record of breaking stories (and being proven right). Two of the latter, Scianitti and Naylor, say their sources are telling them nothing has been agreed to. The original report said both sides were agreeable to five starting NATs. In the 10 days since that was published, how come no credible journalist has been able to corroborate it? And again, why would the CFLPA be (a) agreeable to this in the first place, and (b) agreeable to it after one week of bargaining? The latter in particular defies credibility.

Sure, it's entirely possible the league would like to do this. It's possible the league planted the story to spread the word about its actual intentions, perhaps to soften public opinion, or player opinion, or to sow dissent among players. There are many possible explanations as to why this story came out when and how it did. But there is no guarantee that the story is accurate, or that the league is definitely planning to reduce the number of starting NATs. Everyone is obviously free to believe what they want, but to treat it as a fait accompli based on an unsourced report from someone who is new to breaking stories (and has not always been right) and a predictable "we're going to keep that stuff behind closed doors" comment from the commish is a big stretch IMO.

[OV Argo]

Speaking of gutless, if there is a reduction, the Canadian players who control the CFLPA will do what they did with every other ratio change since the 60s -- agree to it without much protest.

Yes. And that has led the CFL to where there are more American players in the CFLPA than Canadians, so they could assume control and lobby for changes they would wish to see. That single point is sure silly; and 4 downs are much better than 3 - an Animal farm league for the NFL ?. ;o)

And gutless, bottom line little weasels who have made up the CFL BOG are in the mix too. Why not sell the CFL to Vince McMahon if he has huge buck$ to offer ? - an alliance of the modernistic American dream XFL and the quaint historic little ole CFL. Imagine the possible ratings and revenue if this new league took off down south? Of course, they would have to do away with the ratio, and the goofy Canadian rules. But this could be a huge cash cow for the CFL BOGs and a chance to make tons of money; surely some old CFL fans would watch this new league and eagerly support it? But if not - tough $hite; it all just about the dollar$.

[argolio]

Yes. And that has led the CFL to where there are more American players in the CFLPA than Canadians, so they could assume control and lobby for changes they would wish to see. That single point is sure silly; and 4 downs are much better than 3 - an Animal farm league for the NFL ?. ;o)

And gutless, bottom line little weasels who have made up the CFL BOG are in the mix too. Why not sell the CFL to Vince McMahon if he has huge buck$ to offer ? - an alliance of the modernistic American dream XFL and the quaint historic little ole CFL. Imagine the possible ratings and revenue if this new league took off down south? Of course, they would have to do away with the ratio, and the goofy Canadian rules. But this could be a huge cash cow for the CFL BOGs and a chance to make tons of money; surely some old CFL fans would watch this new league and eagerly support it? But if not - tough $hite; it all just about the dollar$.Nice job with the rant, but you're wrong. The power base of the CFLPA (Board of Directors and CBA bargaining committees) have been controlled by Canadian players from the 60s until this very moment. Canadian players have been selling out Canadian jobs since the 60s, and if another ratio change happens, it'll be Canadian players who once again agree to it. Your narrative of the BoG as the sole villain is laughable.

[R.J]

I'd go OL with the 1st pick or trade down and pick either OL or WR. I think the Argos should draft a WR within the first two rounds, as I'm not sold on any of the team's CDN WR's (Cibasu being an exception for now due to being "unknown" in the Pro game).

I'd love to see the Argos draft O'Connor.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

I would prefer the Argos not pursue O'Conner in this draft.
The CFL would be best served if O'Conner goes to Ottawa or BC.
If the Argos don't do well this season on the field/attendance wise then getting Nathan Rourke becomes paramount for marketing purposes in 2020.
.

[OV Argo]

Nice job with the rant, but you're wrong. The power base of the CFLPA (Board of Directors and CBA bargaining committees) have been controlled by Canadian players from the 60s until this very moment. Canadian players have been selling out Canadian jobs since the 60s, and if another ratio change happens, it'll be Canadian players who once again agree to it. Your narrative of the BoG as the sole villain is laughable.

You're bang on about the CFLPA and Canadian players rolling over in the past to allow reductions to Canadian player content in the CFL; and now with Americans forming the majority in the CFLPA, further reductions should be quite understandable - or can't you grasp that ?

But if you really believe there is NOTHING CFL owners could have done - in the past or now - to protect Canadian player talent & content in the CFL, then that is really laughable. Gutless little American first weasels was/is the only way eh? Too bad a Teddy Morris type wasn't still around as a major influence in the CFL - ever heard of him ?

[OV Argo]

I would prefer the Argos not pursue O'Conner in this draft.
The CFL would be best served if O'Conner goes to Ottawa or BC.
If the Argos don't do well this season on the field/attendance wise then getting Nathan Rourke becomes paramount for marketing purposes in 2020.
.

You really think the Argos getting Rourke could be a big marketing tool ?

ALL CFL teams should be looking at this guy based on QB demonstrated talent in college ball. We shall see; just like with O'Connor or Merchant this draft.

[Argo57]

I would prefer the Argos not pursue O'Conner in this draft.
The CFL would be best served if O'Conner goes to Ottawa or BC.
If the Argos don't do well this season on the field/attendance wise then getting Nathan Rourke becomes paramount for marketing purposes in 2020.
.

If the Argos get a chance to take O’Connor then grab him, QB talent is at a premium right now.
Ottawa and BC can sort out their own issues.

[doubleblue]

Some test results I found from pro days of some of the players listed in the CFL top prospects, and a couple of others of interest.

C Alex Fontana 6'0 305 Kansas 29 reps on the bench
DL Jon Kongbo 6'5 256 Tennessee 20 reps on the bench
OL Shane Richards 6'6 330 Oklahoma St. 25 reps on the bench
WR Hergy Mayala 6'1 210 Connecticut 4.58 forty (has run in the high 4.4's)
WR Justin McInnis 6'6 210 Arkansas St. 4.63 forty
CB Matt Boateng 5'11 170 Fresno St. 4.4 forty

QB Trace McSorley 6'0 193 Penn State who I believe is on the Saskatchewan neg list ran a 4.57 forty but wants to play QB instead of switching positions.

Canadian DT Charbel Dabire 6'1 300 Wagner College turned down an invite to the Ontario Combine to attend the NY Giants held pro day. Never heard of him before but this is his draft year. Ted Laurent size.

[paulwoods13]

If the Argos get a chance to take O’Connor then grab him, QB talent is at a premium right now.
Ottawa and BC can sort out their own issues.

Agree 100%.

And I don't see how Nathan Rourke could possibly be considered the answer to attendance woes. He's a fine prospect, but there is no evidence he would move any more tickets than any other QB.

[Neely2005]

Agree 100%.

And I don't see how Nathan Rourke could possibly be considered the answer to attendance woes. He's a fine prospect, but there is no evidence he would move any more tickets than any other QB.

I'd say that Brandon Bridge is better known and a bigger draw right now.

[Shatto]

Doubleblue, to stimulate discussion, put together an excellent mock draft for the Argos. Not being as courageous and in order to hedge my bets. I have created an "either or" draft, by suggesting two names for each round:
#1- OL Saxelid or OL Desjarlais--both performed very well in the combine and give depth to an aging Argo line

#9- WR Osei-Kusi or WR Julien-Grant---they have good size and bring top level speed to the game

#18-DT Grant or DT Desjardins--both have huge potential and would provide good young backup for the DL

#21-OL Guthrie or OL Harke--Harke's size may limit him to centre but did well in the combine and he is exceptionally strong (32 reps) and Guthrie may well be the hidden gem in this year's draft

#27- WR Lenius-Dickey or WR Kalinic--L-Dickey may not be around this late in the draft but he has huge potential and should be taken if available and Kalinic is a big body with good speed for his size--special teams player?

#36-LB Sopik or DT Machibroda--Sopik is made for special teams and Machibroda may be one of the most aggressive and talented defensive players in the draft but is returning to school to complete his engineering degree, so the team will have to wait a year but he could well be worth the wait

#45-DB Dearborn or RB Lyles--both have good athletic ability and potential

#60-LB Robinson or QB Merchant--team can always use a big LB with mobility and Merchant has indicated he might be amenable to switch positions. It worked for Sinopoli perhaps lightning might strike twice.

If any of these choices are drafted or signed as F. A's by an NFL team, it would change where I would see them being drafted. Anyway, just an interesting exercise for the purpose of discussion.

[jerrym]

Agree 100%.

And I don't see how Nathan Rourke could possibly be considered the answer to attendance woes. He's a fine prospect, but there is no evidence he would move any more tickets than any other QB.

I agree. Despite winning the Jon Cornish Trophy for the top Canadian in NCAA football the last two years, he is still not that well known among casual fans. If he has an excellent senior 2019 year, more Canadian fans may hear of him, but under those circumstances he is likely to become a NFL draft pick or at least invited to a NFL TC, which, given what he has said in the past, is his first choice, although he is willing to play in the CFL. If he does not have a great final NCAA season, it is unlikely that casual CFL fans will know much about him and therefore he is unlikely to be a big draw, at least initially.

[OV Argo]

Some test results I found from pro days of some of the players listed in the CFL top prospects, and a couple of others of interest.

C Alex Fontana 6'0 305 Kansas 29 reps on the bench
DL Jon Kongbo 6'5 256 Tennessee 20 reps on the bench
OL Shane Richards 6'6 330 Oklahoma St. 25 reps on the bench
WR Hergy Mayala 6'1 210 Connecticut 4.58 forty (has run in the high 4.4's)
WR Justin McInnis 6'6 210 Arkansas St. 4.63 forty
CB Matt Boateng 5'11 170 Fresno St. 4.4 forty

QB Trace McSorley 6'0 193 Penn State who I believe is on the Saskatchewan neg list ran a 4.57 forty but wants to play QB instead of switching positions.

Canadian DT Charbel Dabire 6'1 300 Wagner College turned down an invite to the Ontario Combine to attend the NY Giants held pro day. Never heard of him before but this is his draft year. Ted Laurent size.

Like to hear the 40 times and other testing #s for those 2 Canadian RBs from Div I ball - Irons (Ohio) & Oliveira (N. Dakota).

Ohio had their Pro Day today; didn't see N. Dakota anywhere on the sched.

Impressive strength bench # for Fontana - he should maybe be the top O-line prospect this draft and well ahead of Richards IMO. Has played both C & guard.

Decent bench # for Kongbo - if not for his bad injury raising some questions, he could be up there as a #1 CFL pick - could also maybe play DT in the CFL as well as DE; not sure if he will get a decent NFL look ?

Lions would be smart IMO to grab local BC products Irons & Kongbo in the draft if they could, but they are not positioned well this draft. The top notch BC Lions teams of the 80s featured so many impact players who were from BC or played college ball there.

Mayala & McInnis are 2 very good CFL receiver prospects - size, decent speed and production in Div I ball; doubt either gets that much NFL attention. Both Quebec products who could be great fits for the Als

[OV Argo]

Doubleblue, to stimulate discussion, put together an excellent mock draft for the Argos. Not being as courageous and in order to hedge my bets. I have created an "either or" draft, by suggesting two names for each round:
#1- OL Saxelid or OL Desjarlais--both performed very well in the combine and give depth to an aging Argo line

#9- WR Osei-Kusi or WR Julien-Grant---they have good size and bring top level speed to the game

#18-DT Grant or DT Desjardins--both have huge potential and would provide good young backup for the DL

#21-OL Guthrie or OL Harke--Harke's size may limit him to centre but did well in the combine and he is exceptionally strong (32 reps) and Guthrie may well be the hidden gem in this year's draft

#27- WR Lenius-Dickey or WR Kalinic--L-Dickey may not be around this late in the draft but he has huge potential and should be taken if available and Kalinic is a big body with good speed for his size--special teams player?

#36-LB Sopik or DT Machibroda--Sopik is made for special teams and Machibroda may be one of the most aggressive and talented defensive players in the draft but is returning to school to complete his engineering degree, so the team will have to wait a year but he could well be worth the wait

#45-DB Dearborn or RB Lyles--both have good athletic ability and potential

#60-LB Robinson or QB Merchant--team can always use a big LB with mobility and Merchant has indicated he might be amenable to switch positions. It worked for Sinopoli perhaps lightning might strike twice.

If any of these choices are drafted or signed as F. A's by an NFL team, it would change where I would see them being drafted. Anyway, just an interesting exercise for the purpose of discussion.

Another interesting Argo draft list - love to see the Argos able to get a bunch of those players you mention.

Totally un-mentioned sleeper pick for this draft - U of T DB Nick Hallett - up there in OUA tackle leaders (from a DB !) a couple of years back when he played a full season, plus put up some very impressive testing #s at the Ontario Regional; could be a real nice safety prospect. Why he didn't get an invite to the Main Combine over some of the other DBs there is just bizzarre IMO.

Merchant should be getting a look at his real position; expecting any QB to do what Sinopoli has accomplished as a CFL receiver, is asking a lot - probably never happen again that a position switch guy becomes such an outstanding player at his new position - IMO

[doubleblue]

OV Argo wrote: Like to hear the 40 times and other testing #s for those 2 Canadian RBs from Div I ball - Irons (Ohio) & Oliveira (N. Dakota).


Maleek Irons was interviewed at the Ohio pro day but they didn't give his numbers. He said he thought he did well in the interviews, but testing was not his strong point. His RB partner Ouellette 5'10 207 ran a sub 4.5 which surprised me somewhat as I didn't think he showed any break away speed in a couple of games I watched last fall. Don't think Irons is a first rounder. Hamilton has two picks in the second round.???? A BC guy but the Lions don't pick until #24.


QB Rourke was also interviewed and said the right things how he was expecting a good senior year even though they loss their top two RB's and three receivers to graduation etc.
I don't know if he was throwing the passes for the pro day but who ever it was the passes looked crisp and on the money.

Oliveira had some real good numbers. 35.5 verticle, 29 reps on the bench, 10.2 broad, 4.17 shuttle, 6.9 cone and 4.78 forty. Going to be a powerful bulldozing runner.
I have Winnipeg taking him with one of their two picks in the first round. Along with Manitoba OL Zackary Williams and hope they stay more than two years.

[OV Argo]

OV Argo wrote: Like to hear the 40 times and other testing #s for those 2 Canadian RBs from Div I ball - Irons (Ohio) & Oliveira (N. Dakota).


Maleek Irons was interviewed at the Ohio pro day but they didn't give his numbers. He said he thought he did well in the interviews, but testing was not his strong point. His RB partner Ouellette 5'10 207 ran a sub 4.5 which surprised me somewhat as I didn't think he showed any break away speed in a couple of games I watched last fall. Don't think Irons is a first rounder. Hamilton has two picks in the second round.???? A BC guy but the Lions don't pick until #24.


QB Rourke was also interviewed and said the right things how he was expecting a good senior year even though they loss their top two RB's and three receivers to graduation etc.
I don't know if he was throwing the passes for the pro day but who ever it was the passes looked crisp and on the money.

Oliveira had some real good numbers. 35.5 verticle, 29 reps on the bench, 10.2 broad, 4.17 shuttle, 6.9 cone and 4.78 forty. Going to be a powerful bulldozing runner.
I have Winnipeg taking him with one of their two picks in the first round. Along with Manitoba OL Zackary Williams and hope they stay more than two years.


Thanks db.

Oliveira has an outstanding set of testing #s; combine that with very good production in Div I ball = one of the best CFL Canadian RB prospects in the past good number of years. An heir apparent to Andrew Harris for another Manitoba guy makes sense, but IMO this guy is maybe good enough to start right away in the CFL on the right team - rather see him go there if there is such a team (Ottawa lost Powell).

I really like that Ouellette at RB for Ohio in the bit I saw him play; if he does not draw NFL interest some CFL teams should be after this guy IMO. Irons is a big back who played/produced in Div I ball too = another very good Canadian back to come along. Western's Cedric Joseph did not have a very good set of testing #s for a RB, but he is maybe one of those backs who just has that combo of balance, vision and toughness to break good runs - a smart CFL team should give him a look, but i bet he is more a late round pick at best; Antwi from the Dinos is another good U Sports back and has good size, but not a real fast 40 time.

Be real interesting to see how Rourke does in his Senior year and maybe that could get some NFL notice; a CFL chance down the road is still more a maybe if GOBness continues in the league. How bout a CFL team using a first round draft pick on a QB ? How bout pigs flying again at the Big Owe. ;o)

[argolio]

You're bang on about the CFLPA and Canadian players rolling over in the past to allow reductions to Canadian player content in the CFL; and now with Americans forming the majority in the CFLPA, further reductions should be quite understandable - or can't you grasp that ?

But if you really believe there is NOTHING CFL owners could have done - in the past or now - to protect Canadian player talent & content in the CFL, then that is really laughable. Gutless little American first weasels was/is the only way eh? Too bad a Teddy Morris type wasn't still around as a major influence in the CFL - ever heard of him ?You're still wrong. Americans don't form the majority of the CFLPA where it actually matters -- at the board level and on the CBA negotiating committee. Once the season is over, most Americans head back home. They're too transient to care about the PA year-around. Which is why Canadian players effectively still run the PA 24/7/365 and are controlling the current CBA negotiations. Pretty simple concept to grasp.

Teddy Morris used American players starting in 1947 once his advantage signing ex-military Canadian players ended, and he had no problem coming back to the Argos as an assistant in 1960 to a league where about half the starters were American. Some major influence.


And just to be topical, here is a mock draft:
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/29/john-hodges-2019-cfl-mock-draft-2-0/

[doubleblue]

You're still wrong. Americans don't form the majority of the CFLPA where it actually matters -- at the board level and on the CBA negotiating committee. Once the season is over, most Americans head back home. They're too transient to care about the PA year-around. Which is why Canadian players effectively still run the PA 24/7/365 and are controlling the current CBA negotiations. Pretty simple concept to grasp.

Teddy Morris used American players starting in 1947 once his advantage signing ex-military Canadian players ended, and he had no problem coming back to the Argos as an assistant in 1960 to a league where about half the starters were American. Some major influence.


And just to be topical, here is a mock draft:
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/29/john-hodges-2019-cfl-mock-draft-2-0/

Always a fun time for me anyway doing the mock drafts. None of us are ever going to be right because its the CFL draft right? They have to see who the NFL likes first and if they do, how serious are they at keeping a player a long time. Then they have to start thinking about taking a player who isn't a local kid. Will he head home after you've put two years into his development.
There's an old saying "you've got to make hay when the sun shines". This year IMO the sun is shining on the WR's, and they don't come along this talented every year. So I have 6 maybe 7 WR's going in the first two rounds. Osei-Kusi, Lenius-Dickey and Julien-Grant 1,2,3 and not necessarily in that order. I thought Wilkinson was the top OL but maybe Williams was close enough for Winnipeg to take him as a home town boy who won't leave in two years. Then RB Oliveira if he doesn't sign in the NFL to be the successor to Andrew Harris. OG Wilkinson to Saskatchewan, WR Gittens to Ottawa and C Fontana to Calgary.
2nd round OT Saxelid to Toronto, WR McInnis to Hamilton, DT Griffiths to Hamilton, OG S. Richards to Edmonton, WR Mayala to Montreal, DB Lee to Winnipeg, WR M. Richards to Saskatchewan, DB Harry to Montreal and DE Smith to Calgary.
That still leaves some real good players for the third round but it's that kind of year.

[Argo57]

Always a fun time for me anyway doing the mock drafts. None of us are ever going to be right because its the CFL draft right? They have to see who the NFL likes first and if they do, how serious are they at keeping a player a long time. Then they have to start thinking about taking a player who isn't a local kid. Will he head home after you've put two years into his development.
There's an old saying "you've got to make hay when the sun shines". This year IMO the sun is shining on the WR's, and they don't come along this talented every year. So I have 6 maybe 7 WR's going in the first two rounds. Osei-Kusi, Lenius-Dickey and Julien-Grant 1,2,3 and not necessarily in that order. I thought Wilkinson was the top OL but maybe Williams was close enough for Winnipeg to take him as a home town boy who won't leave in two years. Then RB Oliveira if he doesn't sign in the NFL to be the successor to Andrew Harris. OG Wilkinson to Saskatchewan, WR Gittens to Ottawa and C Fontana to Calgary.
2nd round OT Saxelid to Toronto, WR McInnis to Hamilton, DT Griffiths to Hamilton, OG S. Richards to Edmonton, WR Mayala to Montreal, DB Lee to Winnipeg, WR M. Richards to Saskatchewan, DB Harry to Montreal and DE Smith to Calgary.
That still leaves some real good players for the third round but it's that kind of year.

Seems like a pretty deep draft, Argos maybe we’ll advised to trade down to accumulate an extra pick or two.
Would like an influx of younger O-Line talent, a receiver and I’ll say it once again if O’Connor is available in the Rounds 3-4 he should be picked.

[gilthethrill]

Seems like a pretty deep draft, Argos maybe we’ll advised to trade down to accumulate an extra pick or two.
Would like an influx of younger O-Line talent, a receiver and I’ll say it once again if O’Connor is available in the Rounds 3-4 he should be picked.

Would also like to see DE Robbie Smith be available too...but yes O Line is crucial. Selecting Brian Jones instead of a O Line man a couple years ago hurt and honestly I don't see Jamal Campbell, Sackey or Kolonkowski improving, but I hope I am wrong. As for O'Connor that would be a nice addition....is that O'Rourke kid who played in Ohio an option?

[OV Argo]

You're still wrong. Americans don't form the majority of the CFLPA where it actually matters -- at the board level and on the CBA negotiating committee. Once the season is over, most Americans head back home. They're too transient to care about the PA year-around. Which is why Canadian players effectively still run the PA 24/7/365 and are controlling the current CBA negotiations. Pretty simple concept to grasp.

Teddy Morris used American players starting in 1947 once his advantage signing ex-military Canadian players ended, and he had no problem coming back to the Argos as an assistant in 1960 to a league where about half the starters were American. Some major influence.


And just to be topical, here is a mock draft:
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/29/john-hodges-2019-cfl-mock-draft-2-0/


I didn't realize you were a higher up in the CFLPA - thanks for the info. But FYI - as far as team player reps in the CFLPA, for 2018; each team lists 3 (2 + an alternate), and 6 of the CFL teams had 2 out of their 3 reps being American players - get it? - a clear majority; but yeah maybe they just shut-up and do what the Canadians tell them to ?

BTW - I wouldn't call an assistant coach on a football team a major influence, but he could be. A HC is another matter, and when Morris was HC he had a staunch pro Canadian talent/content policy - pretty simple concept to grasp.

[OV Argo]

Would also like to see DE Robbie Smith be available too...but yes O Line is crucial. Selecting Brian Jones instead of a O Line man a couple years ago hurt and honestly I don't see Jamal Campbell, Sackey or Kolonkowski improving, but I hope I am wrong. As for O'Connor that would be a nice addition....is that O'Rourke kid who played in Ohio an option?

Rourke's 4th year of NCAA ball is coming up = he would be CFL draftable in 2020 i believe.


Here's my Argo mock wish list for the 1st 4 picks: (even though i still don't know if Cibasu is showing up?)

1 - an O-lineman - one of Fontana, Thomassin or Gibbon - whoever grades out best for interior O-line

9 - a receiver from a deep crop - one of K-J Grant, McInnis or Gittens

18 - Fraser Sopik - a play-making LB in college ball, but might make a future CFL safety

21 - take a flyer on Betts if all other teams have passed at this point due to NFL interest; if he's already gone, one of the top DTs between Griffiths, Grant or Desjardins should still be available - and if this DT pans out, the Argos could easily think of going all NI at DT with Laing, Gaydosh, Finley and the new pick (they wouldn't do this of course with Chamblin; just saying they could talent wise)

[paulwoods13]

1. Best player available

2. Best o-lineman available if we didn't take an o-lineman with no. 1 pick. If we did take an o-lineman at No. 1, either the best available player or O'Connor.

3. If he's still on the board at 18, O'Connor.

[jerrym]

OV Argo wrote: Like to hear the 40 times and other testing #s for those 2 Canadian RBs from Div I ball - Irons (Ohio) & Oliveira (N. Dakota).


Maleek Irons was interviewed at the Ohio pro day but they didn't give his numbers. He said he thought he did well in the interviews, but testing was not his strong point. His RB partner Ouellette 5'10 207 ran a sub 4.5 which surprised me somewhat as I didn't think he showed any break away speed in a couple of games I watched last fall. Don't think Irons is a first rounder. Hamilton has two picks in the second round.???? A BC guy but the Lions don't pick until #24.


Here are Irons' numbers and some background on him.



Canadian running back Maleek Irons followed a strong senior season with an impressive pro day at Ohio University. More than 20 NFL and CFL teams combined were at the showcase. ...

Irons checked in at six feet even, 216 pounds, running a 4.59 40-yard dash, 4.21 shuttle, 7.20 three-cone, 33.5-inch vertical, nine-foot, 11-inch broad jump and 18 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press.

Irons rushed for a career-high 831 yards and eight touchdowns on 126 carries (6.6 yards-per-carry) and added six catches for 41 yards and one touchdown during his senior season at Ohio. After cracking the roster as a special teams player as a freshman, Irons ran for 1,468 yards on 254 carries (5.7 yards-per-carry) scoring 17 touchdowns and 23 receptions for 170 yards and one touchdown in 27 games.

The Chilliwack, B.C. native was a star coming out of WJ Mouat high school on the West coast, Irons posted a single-season province record 3,204 rushing yards and 45 touchdowns in 2012 and finished with 7,944 yards and 98 touchdowns. Irons is the best Canadian running back prospect in the 2019 class.
https://3downnation.com/2019/03/29/canadian-rb-maleek-irons-backs-up-standout-senior-season-at-ohio-university-pro-day/

[SkalbaniasGhost]

There's an old saying "you've got to make hay when the sun shines". This year IMO the sun is shining on the WR's, and they don't come along this talented every year. So I have 6 maybe 7 WR's going in the first two rounds. Osei-Kusi, Lenius-Dickey and Julien-Grant 1,2,3 and not necessarily in that order. That still leaves some real good players for the third round but it's that kind of year.
2020 WR class will be just as good.
Jacoby Brissett, Brendan Leary-Orange, Trivel Pinto(if he's cleaned up), Chase Claypool, Rysen John, Jeremy Savage, Tyler Ternowski, Cole Majoros and Carter Matheson.

Argos can afford to go for an O-lineman with the first pick.
Lots of value in the later rounds.

[doubleblue]

2020 WR class will be just as good.
Jacoby Brissett, Brendan Leary-Orange, Trivel Pinto(if he's cleaned up), Chase Claypool, Rysen John, Jeremy Savage, Tyler Ternowski, Cole Majoros and Carter Matheson.

Argos can afford to go for an O-lineman with the first pick.
Lots of value in the later rounds.

I've heard of 3 or 4 of the those guys. I will have to look those other guys up.

[argolio]

I didn't realize you were a higher up in the CFLPA - thanks for the info. But FYI - as far as team player reps in the CFLPA, for 2018; each team lists 3 (2 + an alternate), and 6 of the CFL teams had 2 out of their 3 reps being American players - get it? - a clear majority; but yeah maybe they just shut-up and do what the Canadians tell them to ?

BTW - I wouldn't call an assistant coach on a football team a major influence, but he could be. A HC is another matter, and when Morris was HC he had a staunch pro Canadian talent/content policy - pretty simple concept to grasp.I've read that site about him being super pro-Canadian but I don't buy it. He played Americans in 47, 48 and 49. He didn't need Americans in his first two years because he had the inside track on Canadian players when he coached service teams during the war. Royal Copeland, for example, turned down another offer to play with the Argos for Morris. If the internet can be believed, in 1945 Ottawa, Montreal, and Hamilton each had one American player. Looks like around 8-9 combined in 1946. Morris was "staunch" only in being a couple years behind playing as many American players as the other IRFU clubs were playing starting in 1946.

I know the majority of player reps are American, but they deal primarily with day-to-day issues during the season. They don't set CFLPA policy. The board does, which is majority Canadian and always has been. Why don't American players use their numbers to gain control? Again, they don't care enough because they're not in Canada all year.

[doubleblue]

I've heard of 3 or 4 of the those guys. I will have to look those other guys up.

So here is what I found for Canadian NCAA Div I receivers who will be Seniors this fall.

DeJon Brissett 6'2 180 transferred from Richmond to Illinois
Ja'Quay Savage 6'3 225 transferred from Louisville to Cincinnati
Chase Claypool 6'4 230 Notre Dame
Brenden O'Leary-Orange 6'4 220 Nevada

N'Keal Harry 6'4 216 Arizona State could be a National if he takes out his Canadian papers. Apparently he has declared for the NFL draft as a Junior and reported to be a 1st or 2nd round pick. We will probably never see him in the CFL.

[bluto]

I'm willing to be reasonable in my demands here... I just want a 10 year starter. That's all.

Somewhere in this draft there is likely 1 or more of these. I want that guy (those guys).

[jerrym]

I'm willing to be reasonable in my demands here... I just want a 10 year starter. That's all.

Somewhere in this draft there is likely 1 or more of these. I want that guy (those guys).

Welcome back! It's been a long time.

[bluto]

Welcome back! It's been a long time.

Thanks. I still check in to lurk.

[Shatto]

Seven pundits have predicted who will be drafted in 1st round. On the whole there is general agreement with Desjarlais, Wilkinson and McInnis chosen 7 times and Betts (5 times) Richards (4 times) Mayala, Smith, Julien-Grant all 3 times. I must admit it was a hurried count so hopefully it is correct.

IMO the only real surprise is Betts, who will probably garner enough attention from the NFL that he will likely drop out of the 1st round. Also there were some surprising selections. Saxelid was only selected once but predicted to go number 1 overall. The one constant was all predicted Argos would select an OL as 1st choice.

Will be interesting to see how actual draft goes.

[Jon Gonzo]

Seven pundits have predicted who will be drafted in 1st round. On the whole there is general agreement with Desjarlais, Wilkinson and McInnis chosen 7 times and Betts (5 times) Richards (4 times) Mayala, Smith, Julien-Grant all 3 times. I must admit it was a hurried count so hopefully it is correct.

IMO the only real surprise is Betts, who will probably garner enough attention from the NFL that he will likely drop out of the 1st round. Also there were some surprising selections. Saxelid was only selected once but predicted to go number 1 overall. The one constant was all predicted Argos would select an OL as 1st choice.

Will be interesting to see how actual draft goes.

Good info Shatto. Those seem to be the cards in the 1st round deck, now lets see how the NFL shuffle shapes it all. I still think that with Betts being a tweener, and being that he may need to learn a new position in the NFL, that he may be better suited here and we may see him in the CFL sooner than some anticipate. Just a hunch we could see him go sooner than some anticipate.

[paulwoods13]

The league has announced (https://www.cfl.ca/2019/04/17/cfl-draft-feature-territorial-picks/)that the Argos and Alouettes will each get an extra draft pick -- a territorial exemption, or someone who must be from their own territory -- at the end of the second round. Much as I appreciate that this will benefit the Argos, this seems like a misguided idea. If you're going to benefit the bad teams with extra picks, shouldn't all non-playoff teams benefit, at the very least? Either that or make the entire third round a territorial round. Making policy on the fly, probably to benefit the Alouettes who seem to be in trouble in their market.

[Shatto]

The concept of the territorial exemptions has some value. However the timing seems a little inappropriate and it should have included all teams not making the playoffs.

That said, it does give the Argos a 19th selection to go with their 1st, 9th and 18th. Assuming the territorial boundaries include the GTA and parts north, there could be some intriguing prospects that could fall out of the 1st two rounds. These might include one of WR's Osei-Kusi or Julien-Grant. More likely candidates would include, Boateng(DB), Johnson(DB), Sopik(LB), Sanelli(DL) and Guthrie(OL)

It should be noted that Llevi Noel was picked in the 4th round (31st overall). So having the 19th choice could result in a potential roster player.

[Argo57]

The league has announced (https://www.cfl.ca/2019/04/17/cfl-draft-feature-territorial-picks/)that the Argos and Alouettes will each get an extra draft pick -- a territorial exemption, or someone who must be from their own territory -- at the end of the second round. Much as I appreciate that this will benefit the Argos, this seems like a misguided idea. If you're going to benefit the bad teams with extra picks, shouldn't all non-playoff teams benefit, at the very least? Either that or make the entire third round a territorial round. Making policy on the fly, probably to benefit the Alouettes who seem to be in trouble in their market.

100% agree with you on this.

[OV Argo]

100% agree with you on this.

Me too; and beginning to think less & less of Ambrosie; we shall see if the CBA can progress without any silly, foolish, brain-dead, greedy work stoppage or strike action.

[Neely2005]

All CFL Prospects go undrafted in NFL Draft:

https://3downnation.com/2019/04/27/all-cfl-draft-prospects-go-unselected-in-nfl-draft/

[AngeloV]

Argos are hosting a draft party for some season ticket holders on Thursday. Bummer, I was informed Friday that my name was not drawn from the list of those that responded. The last time the Argos had the #1 pick they also hosted a draft party at Jack Astor's by the Scarborough Town Centre. At that event, they also had Their pick Joe Eppele in attendance. They had the #2 pick that year, but since it was known that Saskatchewan had already signed Shomari Williams, the Argos had come to an agreement with Eppele.

Point being, I wonder if they will have their pick signed and introduced at this draft party.

[1971GreyCup]

The league has announced (https://www.cfl.ca/2019/04/17/cfl-draft-feature-territorial-picks/)that the Argos and Alouettes will each get an extra draft pick -- a territorial exemption, or someone who must be from their own territory -- at the end of the second round. Much as I appreciate that this will benefit the Argos, this seems like a misguided idea. If you're going to benefit the bad teams with extra picks, shouldn't all non-playoff teams benefit, at the very least? Either that or make the entire third round a territorial round. Making policy on the fly, probably to benefit the Alouettes who seem to be in trouble in their market.

It reminded me of the unprecedented “dual” Grey Cup announcement earlier this year when the CFL awarded Hamilton the 2021 Grey Cup on the heals of the as the Regina 2020 Grey Cup announcement. Regina deserved the Grey Cup on their own merits.

[gilthethrill]

Argos are hosting a draft party for some season ticket holders on Thursday. Bummer, I was informed Friday that my name was not drawn from the list of those that responded. The last time the Argos had the #1 pick they also hosted a draft party at Jack Astor's by the Scarborough Town Centre. At that event, they also had Their pick Joe Eppele in attendance. They had the #2 pick that year, but since it was known that Saskatchewan had already signed Shomari Williams, the Argos had come to an agreement with Eppele.

Point being, I wonder if they will have their pick signed and introduced at this draft party.

Do you reckon your reputation on this forum had something to do with your name not being selected AV?

[OV Argo]

Betts has signed as a FA with the Bears in the NFL = NO to drafting him with any pick in the first couple of rounds; i bet he sticks in the NFL.

[AngeloV]

Do you reckon your reputation on this forum had something to do with your name not being selected AV?

LOL. No, not at all. If anything, I go overboard defending them against what I consider to be constant whining. If my reputation with them was bad, my guess is I would have been conveniently omitted from the original email
In the first place.

[Argo57]

Betts has signed as a FA with the Bears in the NFL = NO to drafting him with any pick in the first couple of rounds; i bet he sticks in the NFL.

Argos need to draft a player they are sure to sign (especially with the first overall pick) speculative picks should wait until later rounds IMO.

[doubleblue]

Betts has signed as a FA with the Bears in the NFL = NO to drafting him with any pick in the first couple of rounds; i bet he sticks in the NFL.

Chicago runs a 3-4 defense which means their DE's are much bigger than somebody like Betts. IMO they have to be looking at him as a potential rush LBer. PR (US) money this year for him as he learns a new position. Not bad. If he makes the roster on ST's an even better pay day. But the fact no body used a draft pick to take Betts leaves the door open to eventually see him in the CFL after year three.

[OV Argo]

Chicago runs a 3-4 defense which means their DE's are much bigger than somebody like Betts. IMO they have to be looking at him as a potential rush LBer. PR (US) money this year for him as he learns a new position. Not bad. If he makes the roster on ST's an even better pay day. But the fact no body used a draft pick to take Betts leaves the door open to eventually see him in the CFL after year three.


Betts will likely be looked as an edge rush OLB - and the Bears have a star there in K. Mack (Betts might win the job as the main back-up); might have to be able to show some coverage skills, plus be tough against the run, but the main job is to rush the QB = Betts' specialty; i bet he sticks in the NFL due to his skills, athleticism & motor. IF NFL super-scouts think he's not good enough, it would hopefully be a big gain for the CFL - the individual team that gets him, plus, IMO the league in whole could benefit with such a talented Canadian player being featured (and hyped /marketed - as should be being done for Andrew Harrris, Sinopoli, Henoc Muamba, Taylor Loffler, Sean McEwen, Kwaku Boateng, Jordan Herdman, etc. etc. and all top new Canadian players who come into the CFL)

[Jon Gonzo]

I really think the Argos are setting up for a nice haul here on Thursday night.

The way things are lining up; I could see Popp drafting 2 top O-Lineman that could be instant adds. We'll see how it falls, but it's conceivable that they get a choice of Desgarlais/ Fonatana or Wilkinson for the 1sts Pick and one of Gibbon/ Saxelid/ or Richards for the next one (9th).

It's like they have two First Rounders this year, and I could get pretty excited about any of those combinations.

Get Hunter back in the mix over the next year or two and we'd have some anchors.

I know some of you don't like outside opinion and are rather negative about the credibility of some of the CFL media (which I find pretty xenophobic and crusty) but for what it's worth, Marshall Ferguson has his final MOCK Draft up at CFL.ca

Take it for what it's worth, but he has the Argos taking:

Desjarlais, Justin McInnis, Matthew Boateng, Jonathan Kongbo, Connor Griffiths, Thomas Grant, Vincent Roy, Fraser Sopik and Malcolm Thompson.

I think before we jump all over him and get hyper-critical about things; its fair to mention that these lists are not easy to put together and they are often quite wrong. However, I quite enjoy looking at them, and it gives us a pretty good indication of what type of haul is possible in a draft like this.

My personal list would have 3 OL, as opposed to 3 DL. And I'd add another Receiver or two in there as opposed to only 1.

It is also worth mentioning that Marshall is at the games, the practices, the combine, has played the game and studied the film. He knows these players and has had conversations with them.

[paulwoods13]

It is also worth mentioning that Marshall is at the games, the practices, the combine, has played the game and studied the film. He knows these players and has had conversations with them.


Still doesn't mean he isn't waaaaaay too clueless, dontcha know?

[SkalbaniasGhost]

It is also worth mentioning that Marshall is at the games, the practices, the combine, has played the game and studied the film. He knows these players and has had conversations with them.

Marshall covers the draft for the league because Justin Dunk behaved poorly in the Argos draft war room during the 2016 draft(tipping picks on Twitter).He doesn't pay attention to AUS or RSEQ players.If you want someone with knowledge about the draft then look to Jim Mullin(Krown Countdown U host) or Lee Barrette(Canada Football Chat).

https://twitter.com/leebarette?lang=en
(https://twitter.com/leebarette?lang=en)https://canadafootballchat.com/

(https://canadafootballchat.com/)https://twitter.com/KrownCountdownU

[argolio]

The latest mock draft: https://3downnation.com/2019/05/01/john-hodges-2019-cfl-mock-draft-3-0/

Since 4 o-linemen have apparently visited Toronto for individual workouts, seems safe to say that's what we're taking #1, and maybe another with an early pick.

[Jon Gonzo]

Marshall covers the draft for the league because Justin Dunk behaved poorly in the Argos draft war room during the 2016 draft(tipping picks on Twitter).He doesn't pay attention to AUS or RSEQ players.If you want someone with knowledge about the draft then look to Jim Mullin(Krown Countdown U host) or Lee Barrette(Canada Football Chat).

https://twitter.com/leebarette?lang=en
(https://twitter.com/leebarette?lang=en)https://canadafootballchat.com/

(https://canadafootballchat.com/)https://twitter.com/KrownCountdownU

Love it. Like to read it all. Thanks!

[OV Argo]

Marshall covers the draft for the league because Justin Dunk behaved poorly in the Argos draft war room during the 2016 draft(tipping picks on Twitter).He doesn't pay attention to AUS or RSEQ players.If you want someone with knowledge about the draft then look to Jim Mullin(Krown Countdown U host) or Lee Barrette(Canada Football Chat).

https://twitter.com/leebarette?lang=en
(https://twitter.com/leebarette?lang=en)https://canadafootballchat.com/

(https://canadafootballchat.com/)https://twitter.com/KrownCountdownU

There's a site called "Ratio Breaker" maybe ? - and that guy seems to put in a lot of effort knowing about or studying Canadian football talent that might get a shot to progress to the CFL. Now, he may not be a certified or bona fide expert like Ferguson or Junk, but it is another source for those who care about the subject.

Agree that Jim Mullin is a veteran, knowledgeable observer of Canadian football (and knows CanWest maybe particularly well); Mike Hogan is another IMO. Duane Forde is very well versed in Canadian ball and the young Canadian talent prospects, and he used to write about the draft & prospects (on the TSN website ?), but not sure if he does near as much anymore ?

[AngeloV]

I know some of you don't like outside opinion and are rather negative about the credibility of some of the CFL media (which I find pretty xenophobic and crusty) but for what it's worth, Marshall Ferguson has his final MOCK Draft up at CFL.ca

Take it for what it's worth, but he has the Argos taking:

Desjarlais, Justin McInnis, Matthew Boateng, Jonathan Kongbo, Connor Griffiths, Thomas Grant, Vincent Roy, Fraser Sopik and Malcolm Thompson.

I think before we jump all over him and get hyper-critical about things; its fair to mention that these lists are not easy to put together and they are often quite wrong. However, I quite enjoy looking at them, and it gives us a pretty good indication of what type of haul is possible in a draft like this.
.

I have all the time in the world for Marshall Ferguson. He knows his stuff, and is a good guy.

[OV Argo]

The latest mock draft: https://3downnation.com/2019/05/01/john-hodges-2019-cfl-mock-draft-3-0/

Since 4 o-linemen have apparently visited Toronto for individual workouts, seems safe to say that's what we're taking #1, and maybe another with an early pick.


Wilkinson, Saxelid, Fontana, Desjarlais ? - who's it gonna be? Maybe Saxelid cause he has some OT capability ?

[Wobbler]

There are a lot of good names in Ferguson's mock, but I can't figure out where he got the idea that we're looking to start a NAT at RB. Irons sounds very good, but I'm hoping that Betts is still available at #9.

[OV Argo]

There are a lot of good names in Ferguson's mock, but I can't figure out where he got the idea that we're looking to start a NAT at RB. Irons sounds very good, but I'm hoping that Betts is still available at #9.

It's John Hodge's mock that sees the Argos taking Irons and going Canadian at tailback? = yeah sure, that's not clueless at all. The Argos will draft O'Connor high too and re-sign Picton and they will be in the mix with Bridge for the Argos to start a Canadian at QB likely as well; I'm pulling for FA signing AV to win that QB battle though = gotta like a veteran QB

[Shatto]

An interesting choice will be the territorial selection at #18. Boateng (DB) has been mentioned but a few have suggested Osei-Kusi might drop out the first two rounds because he is seen by some, as needing a little time to mature. It is unlikely he will be available but if he were, I'd suggest we grab him.

[Wobbler]

It's John Hodge's mock that sees the Argos taking Irons and going Canadian at tailback? = yeah sure, that's not clueless at all.
Yes Hodge not Ferguson - whoops. Ferguson has us taking McInnis at #9, which makes a bit more sense. BPA but preferably DL at that spot, IMO.

[doubleblue]

The latest mock draft: https://3downnation.com/2019/05/01/john-hodges-2019-cfl-mock-draft-3-0/

Since 4 o-linemen have apparently visited Toronto for individual workouts, seems safe to say that's what we're taking #1, and maybe another with an early pick.

Hope Jim Popp doesn't find out who leaked that information. Lol I wonder which one is still in Toronto.?

I kind of agree with Hodge's first round. I think I had Winnipeg taking their home town OL Williams, but Desjarlais would be a good pick.

If Osei-Kusi and Mayala are still available for those territorial picks the Argos and Als will be laughing.

[Neely2005]

Argos zeroing in on O Lineman:

https://3downnation.com/2019/05/02/argos-zeroing-in-on-offensive-lineman-with-first-overall-pick/

[Jon Gonzo]

An interesting choice will be the territorial selection at #18. Boateng (DB) has been mentioned but a few have suggested Osei-Kusi might drop out the first two rounds because he is seen by some, as needing a little time to mature. It is unlikely he will be available but if he were, I'd suggest we grab him.

Could be Missouri DT Nate Anderson there

[Shatto]

Anderson is a good projection, especially as they recently released Cam Walker.

[doubleblue]

Argos zeroing in on O Lineman:

https://3downnation.com/2019/05/02/argos-zeroing-in-on-offensive-lineman-with-first-overall-pick/

Quote: Back to back years the two top choices Popp has made during his time in Toronto were both NCAA offensive linemen, Mason Woods (Idaho) second round, 10th overall in 2017 and Ryan Hunter (Bowling Green) first round, ninth overall. Expect the trend to continue.
The Argos put a high value on players being able to contribute on special teams which is why some picks might surprise the average draft follower. But there’s a reason behind the choices — Toronto likes players who can contribute right away and develop at their respective position for the future.

As an average drafter follower I now know why Mason Woods was drafted. He was going to be the gunner on special teams. Oh well things do not always work out.

[gilthethrill]

Anderson is a good projection, especially as they recently released Cam Walker.

Or maybe Evan Foster sees the field this season.

[Wobbler]

As an average drafter follower I now know why Mason Woods was drafted. He was going to be the gunner on special teams. Oh well things do not always work out.
I think that quote is pretty accurate. Aside from the first round, the Argos do seem to prefer special teamers to long-shot starters and high risk NFLers.