Popp/Chamblin Staying or Going?

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Is it time for a reset at the GM/HC positions? I need hope for next year.

[Will]

Yes and yes.

I don't buy the notion that Popp was overrated in Montreal because he had Calvillo. He was still able to find talent to supplement AC, but he hasn't had the same results in Toronto. Hindsight is 20/20 but the 2018-2019 offseason was very poor in terms of recruitment and his handling of the OL was poor.

Chamblin was great as a DC in 2017, but I think he's in over his head as a HC. Perhaps it is the dual role of HC/DC that is an issue, but his game-time and lineup decisions have been head scratchers.

I do not, however, trust Bill Manning with making a football hire.

[ArgoZ]

I think we will see a change at some point. The coaching cap complicates things. I can see Popp replacing Chamblin and after that Popp fired himself. Unless the Argos catch fire with the pressure off under Popp, and that is enough to save his job for another go at GM.

[paulwoods13]

Both guys will survive until the end of the year, but both are likely gone after the season ends IMO.

[Neely2005]

Yes and yes.

I don't buy the notion that Popp was overrated in Montreal because he had Calvillo. He was still able to find talent to supplement AC, but he hasn't had the same results in Toronto. Hindsight is 20/20 but the 2018-2019 offseason was very poor in terms of recruitment and his handling of the OL was poor.

Chamblin was great as a DC in 2017, but I think he's in over his head as a HC. Perhaps it is the dual role of HC/DC that is an issue, but his game-time and lineup decisions have been head scratchers.

I do not, however, trust Bill Manning with making a football hire.

Agree with all of this. First thing we need is an Argonauts only President who knows the CFL and the CFL talent pipeline.

[dmont]

Popp absolutely has to go. I dont know why he was better in Montreal, but hes garbage now. Won the Cup in 2017 with Jim Barker and Spencer Zimmerman's team. After that, all he could do was bring in high-priced free agents. He must have a very lousy network of scouts and contacts because he is really bad at uncovering those diamonds in the rough. Its telling that, even after a four win season, the guy couldn't find any rookies or past NFL cuts to come in and challenge for a position.

Bring back Jim Barker! That guy was great in the drafts and always brought in some studs to camp that no one had ever heard of and watched them explode. Great at finding and developing QB talent (collaros, Harris, fajardo).

[gilthethrill]

First off season move for this team is to hire a full time President. No ifs or buts. Plenty of young experienced Canadian front office guys that are ready to assume a GM role in this league. Zimmerman, Burke...perhaps even Vince Magri are 3 that come to mind. Still pissed to see our 1st round pick on the "6 game injured list"...cough cough.

[Argo57]

Major changes have to be made in the off season.
A successful program starts at the top to which the Argos need to hire a qualified President to set the tone.
Popp, Chamblin and the entire football ops department should be scrutinized in detail and ultimately replaced.
The coaching has been atrocious and Popp has done a poor job at recruiting talent and addressing roster deficiencies.
Personally I’d like to see the Argos hire a younger GM with a fresh view of player evaluation and how to build a roster.
People like Ted Goveia (Winnipeg), Paul Jones (Edmonton) or Shawn Burke, Spencer Zimmerman (Hamilton) should be considered.

[Neely2005]

Major changes have to be made in the off season.
A successful program starts at the top to which the Argos need to hire a qualified President to set the tone.
Popp, Chamblin and the entire football ops department should be scrutinized in detail and ultimately replaced.
The coaching has been atrocious and Popp has done a poor job at recruiting talent and addressing roster deficiencies.
Personally I’d like to see the Argos hire a younger GM with a fresh view of player evaluation and how to build a roster.
People like Ted Goveia (Winnipeg), Paul Jones (Edmonton) or Shawn Burke, Spencer Zimmerman (Hamilton) should be considered.

Agreed that we should be looking for a young, forward thinking candidate.

[Argo57]

Agreed that we should be looking for a young, forward thinking candidate.

For sure, no more recycled talent.
Personally I’m getting tired of the same old same old.
This year’s performance issues and roster deficiencies mirror last year’s debacle of a season (only worse).
Championships can’t be won every season but it isn’t too much to expect an entertaining and competitive on field product.

[AngeloV]

I am keeping both guys for 2 reasons.
1, I don't believe that changing management and coaches as often as the Argos do is beneficial in any way.
2, I don't trust Bill Manning to bring in the right people to actually manage the team.

My hopes would be for the Argos to make Popp the president and have him hire a new GM.

[Blue90]

I am keeping both guys for 2 reasons.
1, I don't believe that changing management and coaches as often as the Argos do is beneficial in any way.
2, I don't trust Bill Manning to bring in the right people to actually manage the team.

My hopes would be for the Argos to make Popp the president and have him hire a new GM.

Really? Chamblin for anothe year? No thank you.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I refuse to give up until it is mathematically impossible. For all we know, there is a chance we will be praising Popp and Chamblin in late November.

[Ron]

Really? Chamblin for anothe year? No thank you.

Bombers fans said that a lot about O'Shea a few years back. Now they don't want him to leave.

[ArgoZ]

I refuse to give up until it is mathematically impossible. For all we know, there is a chance we will be praising Popp and Chamblin in late November.

The Argos would have to go at minimum 5-4 and Montreal subsequently 0-9, or a maximum 9-0 and hope Montreal goes 4-5. Either scenario or something in between is not realistic for a 1-8 team. After a loss next week in Hamilton, it gets even more mathematically stupid. Season is done.

[KCargosfan]

I'd bring back Jim Barker as GM. What Popp has done the last 2 seasons is enough to be fired.

[Antwon]

I'd bring back Jim Barker as GM. What Popp has done the last 2 seasons is enough to be fired.

No thanks. Barker is great at finding talent, but cannot be handed the powers of a GM. The Drew Willy trade is proof enough!

[AngeloV]

Really? Chamblin for anothe year? No thank you.

Yes, because I’m not a knee jerk reaction kind of a guy. There is no denying the team has improved a ton since the beginning of the season, and nothing in pro sports is worse than changing coaches and management every year. I have complained a lot about his in game decisions, but still not ready to give up on him.

[argotom]

For me both have to go.
Start clean and I would not be against hiring back, I know I know, Eric Tilman as a GM before he is taken by the Schooners group.

[Neely2005]

For sure, no more recycled talent.
Personally I’m getting tired of the same old same old.
This year’s performance issues and roster deficiencies mirror last year’s debacle of a season (only worse).
Championships can’t be won every season but it isn’t too much to expect an entertaining and competitive on field product.

We haven't had back to back winning regular seasons in over a decade. In a 9 (sometimes 8) team league playing in the weaker Division that's just pathetic.

[Argocister]

Not sure it is so easy to get rid of GMs and coaches with the management salary cap ..... But I believe Popps contract is up this year and we won't have Trestmans contract on the books so it may give us more wiggle room this year.
A new president would be ideal .....are they included in the salary cap ?
Move Chamblin to DC .... Although the players seem to be supporting him in their interviews .

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Move Chamblin to DC .... Although the players seem to be supporting him in their interviews .

They are supporting him on the field as well. They played their hearts out in Moncton and deserved better.

[KCargosfan]

No thanks. Barker is great at finding talent, but cannot be handed the powers of a GM. The Drew Willy trade is proof enough!

And you want whom?

[paulwoods13]

If a new GM is being sought (and I think there's a decent chance of that after this season), I would look first to young Canadian guys with experience, like Allemang and/or Burke in Hamilton. Chris Rossetti would likely be great but I doubt he's coming back from the NFL. If we were to hire a young guy like one of the Hamilton guys, I'd want him to hire a more senior person with proven contracts, such as Barker or Tillman, as an advisor/personnel recruiter. And we'd need someone with SMS management experience.

I really doubt we are getting a new CEO after this year. I can't see MLSE believing that the Argos, in their current state as a money-losing entity, are worth spending big bucks on a president. They will absolutely spend a ton of money when there's likely to be a strong return on the investment, but will proceed cautiously otherwise. Having one CEO shared between the two "junior" teams in the MLSE structure, who also happen to share a facility, would seem to make sense at this point from a corporate standpoint. And Manning has barely been in the job a year and a half, without having had time to establish whether his ideas for rebuilding the brand are gonna work. There have been some promising signs and some disheartening signs, but it has been clear for a while that any return to sustained success at the gate is a multi-year play, and I don't see why MLSE won't give him at least a few years.

[paulwoods13]

BTW, does anyone know what Damon Allen has been doing on the Argo bench the last two weeks? He's around BMO a lot, but last week he was on the Argo sideline wearing the same shirt as the coaches, and he was there again yesterday. Some type of unpaid advisor?

[Jon Gonzo]

BTW, does anyone know what Damon Allen has been doing on the Argo bench the last two weeks? He's around BMO a lot, but last week he was on the Argo sideline wearing the same shirt as the coaches, and he was there again yesterday. Some type of unpaid advisor?

.....And Bear Woods with the clip board and play cards too.

[Neely2005]

BTW, does anyone know what Damon Allen has been doing on the Argo bench the last two weeks? He's around BMO a lot, but last week he was on the Argo sideline wearing the same shirt as the coaches, and he was there again yesterday. Some type of unpaid advisor?

Hopefully learning the playbook to replace MBT.
:-)

[paulwoods13]

.....And Bear Woods with the clip board and play cards too.

At least his pay is being accounted for.

[timlb01]

BTW, does anyone know what Damon Allen has been doing on the Argo bench the last two weeks? He's around BMO a lot, but last week he was on the Argo sideline wearing the same shirt as the coaches, and he was there again yesterday. Some type of unpaid advisor?

I have seen him at almost every game this year and last. I don’t think it is new maybe more visible on the sidelines. I think he did a promotion thing for the game in Moncton.

[1971GreyCup]

We ran into Damon Allen at St. Mary’s University giving a QB camp for youngsters. He represented the CFL Alumni at the Touchdown Atlantic golf tournament and we saw him on the sidelines. I didn’t ask, but I suspect the CFL is paying his way.

[argonaut11xx]

Stability is the key right now. Let Popp and Chamblin work through this. The Argo's suck this year, just ride it out.

MBT is never winning a Grey Cup, we all know that.

Build, patience.

That said for whatever reason defensive coaches tend to have a longer learning curve, and less early success than offensive coaches turn HC. (see O'Shea, Stubler, Chamblin, Claybrooks)

Don Matthews being the exception, but he was the GREATEST coach in the history of the CFL

[Argo57]

Stability is the key right now. Let Popp and Chamblin work through this. The Argo's suck this year, just ride it out.

MBT is never winning a Grey Cup, we all know that.

Build, patience.

That said for whatever reason defensive coaches tend to have a longer learning curve, and less early success than offensive coaches turn HC. (see O'Shea, Stubler, Chamblin, Claybrooks)

Don Matthews being the exception, but he was the GREATEST coach in the history of the CFL

Popp and Chamblin have the rest of the season to work through it.

[argonaut11xx]

Popp and Chamblin have the rest of the season to work through it.

I agree, and i'm not happy with the results.

That said, Popp has forgotten more than Bill Manning will ever know about football, and Chamblin has the D improving, and the team being more competitive with a bunch of "Ham'en'eggers" playing QB.

Even Don Matthews would have a sub .500 season with these folks

[KCargosfan]

I agree, and i'm not happy with the results.

That said, Popp has forgotten more than Bill Manning will ever know about football, and Chamblin has the D improving, and the team being more competitive with a bunch of "Ham'en'eggers" playing QB.

Even Don Matthews would have a sub .500 season with these folks

Which means Popp has done a crappy job. Popp did a bad job his last few years in Montreal and he's done a horrific job his last two years here. Time for a change.

[mchesher03]

I can't say I support keeping either beyond the season. WHile the players are playing for Chamblin, his in-game decisions are so mind baffling I can't see them improving.

I will be the first to admit I'd complain about Milonovich not going for gimmie 3rd and shorts but he would not be making the oddball challenges, etc. that Chamblin is doing.

[Jon Gonzo]

I am comfortable with letting them stay-on for the season as long as they're not attempting hail-mary, desperate trades to save their own backsides.

GM's don't get renewed with 4 wins over two seasons, and head scratching personnel decisions

The scary part, is in the meantime, who is planning the road ahead? It is the lack of vision that keeps a team in the dullards for years and years to come.

I doubt this franchise could withstand that.

We need a strong figure, a Ralph Sazio-type, to come in here and grab the goose by the neck.

[paulwoods13]

When you say a Sazio "type," I presume you mean a guy with considerable experience running a CFL org? Because surely you wouldn't mean a guy who believes the only marketing needed is a winning team.

[Will]

When you say a Sazio "type," I presume you mean a guy with considerable experience running a CFL org? Because surely you wouldn't mean a guy who believes the only marketing needed is a winning team.

You raise a good point! Both on-field and off-field are issues in 2019 whereas the off-field stuff might not have been viewed as an issue in 1981.

[Jon Gonzo]

When you say a Sazio "type," I presume you mean a guy with considerable experience running a CFL org? Because surely you wouldn't mean a guy who believes the only marketing needed is a winning team.

Yes, and back in those days they'd have 50,000 in the stands and at the time, he may have been correct

[1971GreyCup]

Hamilton did well this offseason with Argos talent - Coombs, Van Zehl and Wynn.

“Dylan Wynn (@cdylanwynn) has been named a @CFL Top Performer of the Month for August.”

️ > bit.ly/2U9UyMN

Anyone knew who came Argos way from the Ticats this offseason?

[Shatto]

Both Popp and Chamblin are unlikely to be here next year unless there is a miraculous turn around this year. However, far more important at this time, is the replacing of our present part time and CFL inexperienced president, with a knowledgeable experienced CFL individual, who hopefully can bring some charisma and media savvy to the role. Most studies of effective organizations point out the absolute importance of an highly effective leader, in order for an organization to be successful. That replacement should be in place asap, so they may determine whether, either or both coach and GM, should be replaced and what criteria needs to be set, if replacements for these positions need to occur.

Manning, may be a fine person but he is not a CFL knowledgeable individual and I have little faith in the future of this team until he is replaced. Here's hoping MLSE realizes the essential necessity to place a highly qualified and 100% fully committed individual into the role. After all, hope springs eternal!

[paulwoods13]

Yes, and back in those days they'd have 50,000 in the stands and at the time, he may have been correct

Not true. Crowds peaked in late 1970s (1978, I believe) in the high 40s. By the time Sazio arrived in 1981 crowds had started to trend downward from the peak but Argos were still a huge deal in Toronto. But crowds dropped sharply and cotinually after 1983, when the Argos really started to reap the cost of Sazio's refusal to market. He was never correct in that belief for any part of his tenure in Toronto.

[Will]

Not true. Crowds peaked in late 1970s (1978, I believe) in the high 40s. By the time Sazio arrived in 1981 crowds had started to trend downward from the peak but Argos were still a huge deal in Toronto. But crowds dropped sharply and cotinually after 1983, when the Argos really started to reap the cost of Sazio's refusal to market. He was never correct in that belief for any part of his tenure in Toronto.

What was the thinking at the time vis-a-vis the declining crowds. I'm sure some would have attributed (in 1981) it to the team's poor play on the field. It probably wouldn't have been until 1984-1985 that the Blue Jays ascent started to catch some eyes. It also wasn't until the mid-80's that the situation with some of the franchises started to get really tenuous.

[paulwoods13]

Jays started to make real inroads around 1981, and by 1983 were in contention and had a lot of people were getting very excited about them. But the incursion began at the start, in 1977, when a bunch of people became serious baseball fans for the first time. Some of them had also been Argo fans and gradually fell away (especially after the drought finally ended in 1983); others were potential CFL fans who never paid the league any attention once they had glommed on to baseball. The CFL's last huge TV contract was 1983-85: $11M/season. After 1986, CTV pulled out of football and that was when teams that had relied on the relatively big TV money brought in by Jake Gaudaur were suddenly left with scraps. The first serious signs of trouble were in 1982 when the Alouettes folded and were replaced by the Concordes, who drew terribly small crowds in their five years in the Big Owe before the franchise folded on the eve of the 1987 season. IMO you can trace the CFL's slow and steady decline as a business to the launch of the Blue Jays in 1977, with many other factors coming into play over the ensuing years and decades that have left it now as a niche product rather than a mainstream product.

[argolio]

The Jays spent big money on marketing right from their first year. Their ads were everywhere.

[Jon Gonzo]

Not true. Crowds peaked in late 1970s (1978, I believe) in the high 40s. By the time Sazio arrived in 1981 crowds had started to trend downward from the peak but Argos were still a huge deal in Toronto. But crowds dropped sharply and cotinually after 1983, when the Argos really started to reap the cost of Sazio's refusal to market. He was never correct in that belief for any part of his tenure in Toronto.

The overall perception and explanation that I have always heard, and pretty much accepted, was that the "blackout rule" set Southern Ontario back. Every Eastern team has struggled, and been on the watch list, or completely disappeared at one time or another.

Widespread NFL coverage on TV in Southern Ontario, I'm sure also contributed as did the aforementioned arrival of the Blue Jays.

There are more choices in Ontario than out West for entertainment options and the West is more isolated.

I had forgotten that Sazio ever did or said that, but the 3 issues I have listed above are the issues that I hear have primarily contributed to the decline of the Toronto Argonauts profile over the past 30-40 years.

However, I certainly see how old minded/old school thinking didn't help.

As I mentioned, when I used Sazio as an example, I simply meant a person who could take charge with football knowledge and put his stamp on this team like Wally Buono or Huff would do.

Point being, it all starts at the top.

[AngeloV]

I will continue to believe the biggest issue was when the NFL tv deal skyrocketed after the strike in the early 80’s. Their players started making 5-10 times what CFL players were and it made the perception of minor league very real in Southern Ontario

[Blue90]

I can't say I support keeping either beyond the season. WHile the players are playing for Chamblin, his in-game decisions are so mind baffling I can't see them improving.

I will be the first to admit I'd complain about Milonovich not going for gimmie 3rd and shorts but he would not be making the oddball challenges, etc. that Chamblin is doing.

Agreed. The coaching decisions by Chamblin have been terrible, example his challenges, gambling/not gambling on third down, etc.

Also the lack of discipline regarding penalties. Last game 12 penalties for 131 yards.

[ArgoRavi]

Yes, because I’m not a knee jerk reaction kind of a guy. There is no denying the team has improved a ton since the beginning of the season, and nothing in pro sports is worse than changing coaches and management every year. I have complained a lot about his in game decisions, but still not ready to give up on him.

As is usually the case, AV is correct. Let's also see how this team continues to evolve in the second half of the season, whether they make the playoffs or not.

[ArgoRavi]

Agreed. The coaching decisions by Chamblin have been terrible, example his challenges, gambling/not gambling on third down, etc.

Also the lack of discipline regarding penalties. Last game 12 penalties for 131 yards.

In fairness, the Argos have been one of the least penalized teams this season. They have had a couple of games where they have taken more penalties but I would argue that lack of discipline hasn't really been an issue.

[ArgoRavi]

What was the thinking at the time vis-a-vis the declining crowds. I'm sure some would have attributed (in 1981) it to the team's poor play on the field. It probably wouldn't have been until 1984-1985 that the Blue Jays ascent started to catch some eyes. It also wasn't until the mid-80's that the situation with some of the franchises started to get really tenuous.

The Jays were seen as more "family-friendly" also. I remember Marty York writing about bad behaviour at Argos games with drunks urinating in the stands.

[Argo57]

The Jays were seen as more "family-friendly" also. I remember Marty York writing about bad behaviour at Argos games with drunks urinating in the stands.

Booze was regularly smuggled into Argo games in those days, I remember my dad warning me to hustle up leaving the stadium so I wouldn’t get hit by an empty bottle being thrown from above.

[paulwoods13]

The overall perception and explanation that I have always heard, and pretty much accepted, was that the "blackout rule" set Southern Ontario back. Every Eastern team has struggled, and been on the watch list, or completely disappeared at one time or another.

Widespread NFL coverage on TV in Southern Ontario, I'm sure also contributed as did the aforementioned arrival of the Blue Jays.

There are more choices in Ontario than out West for entertainment options and the West is more isolated.

I had forgotten that Sazio ever did or said that, but the 3 issues I have listed above are the issues that I hear have primarily contributed to the decline of the Toronto Argonauts profile over the past 30-40 years.

However, I certainly see how old minded/old school thinking didn't help.

As I mentioned, when I used Sazio as an example, I simply meant a person who could take charge with football knowledge and put his stamp on this team like Wally Buono or Huff would do.

Point being, it all starts at the top.

There are, of course, many factors in the slow, steady decline of the Argonauts as a business over the past 35 years. Lack of effective (or in some years any) marketing, TV blackouts, terrible stadium, smart marketing by the Blue Jays and later the Raptors and TFC, the explosion of interest in the NFL caused by many things including TV production values and the exponential rise in player salaries, and there are no doubt many others (probably including some obvious ones I'm forgetting at the moment). A book could be written about it. I have no intention of writing such a book, but if the brand were ever to die completely (and obviously I hope that never happens), it's a subject that someone should tackle.

As for it all starting at the top, on the surface it seems hard to argue, but on the other hand, how many purely football people have been responsible for successful business operations anywhere in the CFL? There's no doubt Hufnagel and Buono, to name two, are outstanding football people who have built consistent winners. But the Lions are hardly succeeding as a business, and Calgary is not blowing the doors off at the box office. Of course we want and need a good football person to head up football ops, but it is arguably even more important to have a good head of business ops, and I'd argue that it's far too early to judge whether Manning is or isn't a success there. Some of the criticism that comes his way seems to be based on false narratives ("he's not a football guy" -- he worked for the Philadelphia Eagles, and anyway, IMO the CEO does not need to be a football guy) and some of it is based on things he can't control. It's not his decision to have one person run two franchises. Anyone who doesn't like that should direct their criticism at MLSE, not Manning.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Another game, another loss, another example of our side being out coached by the opposition. After watching today's second half collapse I was hoping that the highlight package would include a clip of Chamblin and Chapdelaine doing the tuck and roll after being tossed from the team bus as it sped down the QEW. Alas it was not to be and sadly won't happen until this pitiful excuse for a season is over. But then what? Who do we go after or better yet who will accept the job? The guys we have now were not the team's first choice. Or second. We wound up with these Bozos because nobody else wanted the job. How many candidates turned the Argos down and why would coaches like Lapolice choose to stay in a coordinator's role rather than take a head coaching position in Toronto? Surely there must be someone out there that knows what they are doing and wants to be there.

Sorry guys, losing to Hamilton always make me cranky.

[Antwon]

I assume Lapolice didn't want to work under Popp.

[Argo57]

I assume Lapolice didn't want to work under Popp.

Not sure about him not wanting to work with Popp but it was reported LaPolice wanted to choose his own coaching staff which wasn’t possible with the Argos due to the asinine cap.

[doubleblue]

Popp/Chamblin going or staying? Well after much thought from my comfortable arm chair QB position, I believe that they very well could be back. Unless Randy's Management salary cap is rescinded. Positional Coaches will take the fall and of course some players will be replaced. Not very hard to come up with that idea of course. Cory Chamblin might just up and resign for "personal" reasons again and open up the door for a new HC who will come in and promise to fix everything. But that is probably a pipe dream.
I expect Jim Popp, that smooth talking silver fox, to show Bill Manning a great plan going forward and how this team is close to winning with a few tweaks here and there. With the biggest tweak hopefully at QB.
This team kind of reminds me of Hamilton a few years ago before Jeremiah Masoli was anointed their starting QB. The only problem is the Argos don't have a Masoli waiting in the wings. That's going to be the difficult part. With the Argos having the 1st or 2nd pick in the upcoming draft there would be a good chance of them being able to pick the Canadian QB at Ohio Nathan Rourke with their first round pick. But if he is drafted in the NFL signing him would be hard to do. The guy is the type of QB needed in the CFL as he runs very well besides being a good passer. Might have to make him an offer including a signing bonus in the Mike Reilly pay range. Plan B maybe would be Boise State QB Brett Rypien who signed and was released by the Denver Broncos. He is another CFL type QB IMO and can be classed as a Canadian. What's important here is that he would have to go through a supplemental draft where again Argos would have one of the first cracks at him. But one of these two would have more name recognition IMO to get some interest and excitement for us long suffering fans.
I'm sure there are other QB's out there who are just as good as these two, but are very likely on other teams negotiation lists. Could they start right away? We won't talk about that until they are signed sealed delivered and we all buy our season tickets. :)

[paulwoods13]

I would bet my season's tickets that no CFL team will pay Mike Reilly money to a QB fresh out of college.

[Argo57]

I would bet my season's tickets that no CFL team will pay Mike Reilly money to a QB fresh out of college.

Or use the 1st overall pick on a QB when your O-Line is as bad as Toronto’s is at this point.

[ArgoGabe22]

The team hasn't given up on their coach. At least that's what it looks like. The defense, especially the line were great in the first half. I don't know if the players like playing for Chamblin and if this will dictate whether Chamblin will be back or not.

[Ron]

The team hasn't given up on their coach. At least that's what it looks like. The defense, especially the line were great in the first half. I don't know if the players like playing for Chamblin and if this will dictate whether Chamblin will be back or not.

If the team has quit on him they would not have played great in the 1st half either.

The line didn't look as good in the 2nd half because Evans went from a 5 step drop to a 3 step drop and had the ball gone a lot faster. The change to more crossing routes also helped a ton.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I would bet my season's tickets that no CFL team will pay Mike Reilly money to a QB fresh out of college.

I would also bet Paul's season's tickets that no CFL team will pay Mike Reilly money to a QB fresh out of college.

[doubleblue]

I would also bet Paul's season's tickets that no CFL team will pay Mike Reilly money to a QB fresh out of college.

And the alternative is?

[paulwoods13]

And the alternative is?

Any of the CFL free agent QBs, for starters. Which, by the way, is most of the current QBs in the league.

[doubleblue]

Any of the CFL free agent QBs, for starters. Which, by the way, is most of the current QBs in the league.

Well Mitchell, Reilly and Harris are signed. Fajardo will reup in Saskatchewan. Masoli will re sign in Hamilton unless he goes down South with June Jones. Who else is going to make the casual fan rush out and buy season tickets. Nichols? Don't think so. Fans like you and I will still buy our tickets, but that's not good enough. Not everybody will hold their nose and renew. Especially if MBT is brought back as the starter.

[Neely2005]

Argos must prepare for 2020 because this season is toast:

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/argos-must-prepare-for-2020-because-this-season-is-toast/

[Will]

I read that article myself earlier in the day -- it isn't really anything beyond any of the feelings that have been expressed by many of us in this thread.

It was interesting that Frank left Chamblin alone while targeting Popp and Manning.

[paulwoods13]

Well Mitchell, Reilly and Harris are signed. Fajardo will reup in Saskatchewan. Masoli will re sign in Hamilton unless he goes down South with June Jones. Who else is going to make the casual fan rush out and buy season tickets. Nichols? Don't think so. Fans like you and I will still buy our tickets, but that's not good enough. Not everybody will hold their nose and renew. Especially if MBT is brought back as the starter.

Actually we don't have any idea where Fajardo and Masoli will be next year. Why wouldn't both guys (and other free agents) test the market? And why wouldn't Hamilton consider putting their eggs in Evans' basket instead of Masoli's? Regardless, I see no chance of the Argos or any other team throwing upwards of $600k at any QB coming straight out of college. The chances of a rookie QB coming in and earning that kind of money are virtually zero. And what evidence is there that casual fans would line up to buy tickets to see Nathan Rourke or any other unknown commodity?

[doubleblue]

Argos must prepare for 2020 because this season is toast:

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/argos-must-prepare-for-2020-because-this-season-is-toast/

Good ole Frank, telling it like it is. Lol But I would sure hate to see top players like Walker and Laing traded, their type are too hard to find. This is the CFL where going from worse to first is possible with a couple of key players. Jim Popp would know that his QB's were not up to snuff going into this season and why he went so hard after Bo Mitchell. Put a healthy Bo on this team and we're talking a different story. He's sees the field, he gets rid of the ball quickly, he throws accurately where only the receiver can catch the ball, all things that MBT doesn't do consistently. Good QB's do those things.
Trade your older vets like a S. J. Green, maybe a Tyler Holmes if there is a return but this is not an old team. Most people seem to thing Wilder is done with the Argos and maybe he wants to leave. I think he could replace S.J. Green as a great reliable receiver. The guy has great hands and is a bull to bring down especially downfield against those smaller DB's. He also has something needed in Toronto, he has become kind of a known face of the franchise.
I do agree with Frank on playing the kids a bit down the stretch and see what they can do. Getting back to the title, if Popp goes than they have to let Chamblin go as well I would think. But I believe Popp's contract is up while Chamblin has two more years. Kind of a dilemma for Manning. IMO

[1971GreyCup]

Big mistake by GM Popp going all or nothing in the BLM bidding war. At the end of the day the team went downhill from a 4 -14 team in 2018.

[doubleblue]

Actually we don't have any idea where Fajardo and Masoli will be next year. Why wouldn't both guys (and other free agents) test the market? And why wouldn't Hamilton consider putting their eggs in Evans' basket instead of Masoli's? Regardless, I see no chance of the Argos or any other team throwing upwards of $600k at any QB coming straight out of college. The chances of a rookie QB coming in and earning that kind of money are virtually zero. And what evidence is there that casual fans would line up to buy tickets to see Nathan Rourke or any other unknown commodity?

Well you have your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I have a pretty good idea if Fajardo and Masoli are in the CFL next year it will be with their respective teams. Unless he gets injured early Nathan Rourke isn't going to be an unknown commodity this fall. NCAA stars are much more known commodities than just about every star in the CFL up here, especially with the younger generation. You know, the ones the CFL are trying to attract.
I hope Frank does a big piece in the Sun sometime this Fall on Nathan Rourke.

[paulwoods13]

Well you have your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I have a pretty good idea if Fajardo and Masoli are in the CFL next year it will be with their respective teams. Unless he gets injured early Nathan Rourke isn't going to be an unknown commodity this fall. NCAA stars are much more known commodities than just about every star in the CFL up here, especially with the younger generation. You know, the ones the CFL are trying to attract.
I hope Frank does a big piece in the Sun sometime this Fall on Nathan Rourke.

Every QB in U.S. college ball is an unknown commodity when it comes to succeeding in the CFL. How many have come up here straight out of college and started and played well? When was the last time it happened? If you seriously expect Nathan Rourke to (a) be paid $700k next season by a CFL team and (b) have immediate success in the CFL, then yes, you are entitled to your opinion.

[1971GreyCup]

Where do you start with fixing the Argos?

With a 5 - 23 record over the last two years there remains questions from top to bottom with this organization. Can President Manning concurrently run two professional teams successfully? Has GM Popp brought in the necessary talent to succeed. Is there a successful CFL quarterback on the team? Is HC Chamberlin the coach to develop a new CFL QB? Can the team stick with HC Chamberlin given his recent HC record? Where exactly do this teams problems lie? Everywhere? Player personnel? Coaching? At the top?

Until someone figures out the source of the problem it’s going to be hard to fix it.

[Argofan_1000]

Where do you start with fixing the Argos?

With a 5 - 23 record over the last two years there remains questions from top to bottom with this organization. Can President Manning concurrently run two professional teams successfully? Has GM Popp brought in the necessary talent to succeed. Is there a successful CFL quarterback on the team? Is HC Chamberlin the coach to develop a new CFL QB? Can the team stick with HC Chamberlin given his recent HC record? Where exactly do this teams problems lie? Everywhere? Player personnel? Coaching? At the top?

Until someone figures out the source of the problem it’s going to be hard to fix it.

I think you just laid out the issues. Montreal seems to have reversed direction, fired the GM and Coach and now have a young coach in there that you can build from. They seem solid right now. I am sure we can do it also. Fans will want changes so lets see what happens.

[doubleblue]

Every QB in U.S. college ball is an unknown commodity when it comes to succeeding in the CFL. How many have come up here straight out of college and started and played well? When was the last time it happened? If you seriously expect Nathan Rourke to (a) be paid $700k next season by a CFL team and (b) have immediate success in the CFL, then yes, you are entitled to your opinion.

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment.

[Neely2005]

I think you just laid out the issues. Montreal seems to have reversed direction, fired the GM and Coach and now have a young coach in there that you can build from. They seem solid right now. I am sure we can do it also. Fans will want changes so lets see what happens.

Do you trust that our current president has the CFL knowledge to hire the right GM? I certainly don't.

[Argo57]

Good ole Frank, telling it like it is. Lol But I would sure hate to see top players like Walker and Laing traded, their type are too hard to find. This is the CFL where going from worse to first is possible with a couple of key players. Jim Popp would know that his QB's were not up to snuff going into this season and why he went so hard after Bo Mitchell. Put a healthy Bo on this team and we're talking a different story. He's sees the field, he gets rid of the ball quickly, he throws accurately where only the receiver can catch the ball, all things that MBT doesn't do consistently. Good QB's do those things.
Trade your older vets like a S. J. Green, maybe a Tyler Holmes if there is a return but this is not an old team. Most people seem to thing Wilder is done with the Argos and maybe he wants to leave. I think he could replace S.J. Green as a great reliable receiver. The guy has great hands and is a bull to bring down especially downfield against those smaller DB's. He also has something needed in Toronto, he has become kind of a known face of the franchise.
I do agree with Frank on playing the kids a bit down the stretch and see what they can do. Getting back to the title, if Popp goes than they have to let Chamblin go as well I would think. But I believe Popp's contract is up while Chamblin has two more years. Kind of a dilemma for Manning. IMO

Putting a healthy Bo Levi on the Argos roster at $700k+ would have weakened the roster even more at other positions which is the last thing a team thin on talent needs.
I think Chamblin signed a two year deal so he has only one year left.
Several free agent QB’s will be available this off season, hopefully the Argos can lure one of them to sign.
I’d give MBT one more start against Ottawa, if they lose then you have seven games to get a look at the other QB’s.

[Neely2005]

Putting a healthy Bo Levi on the Argos roster at $700k+ would have weakened the roster even more at other positions which is the last thing a team thin on talent needs.
I think Chamblin signed a two year deal so he has only one year left.
Several free agent QB’s will be available this off season, hopefully the Argos can lure one of them to sign.
I’d give MBT one more start against Ottawa, if they lose then you have seven games to get a look at the other QB’s.

How much weaker could the team be?

[Neely2005]

Argos must prepare for 2020 because this season is toast:

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/argos-must-prepare-for-2020-because-this-season-is-toast/

Looks like that's a no:

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/popp-says-argos-aren-t-ready-to-quit-or-trade-away-assets~1769175

[argolio]

Teams don't concede until/unless they get mathematically eliminated. B.C. made it back from 0-5. Hamilton turned 0-8 into a respectable finish.


I read that article myself earlier in the day -- it isn't really anything beyond any of the feelings that have been expressed by many of us in this thread.

It was interesting that Frank left Chamblin alone while targeting Popp and Manning.Frank loves Chamblin, probably because he doesn't roll his eyes at Frank's dumb questions, unlike Milanovich and Trestman. Frank couldn't hide his hatred for Trestman in his training camp columns.

[Ron]

Is there a successful CFL quarterback on the team?

That's too simplistic. How about we sign Mike Reilly and go 1-9 with him?

[Argo57]

How much weaker could the team be?

Do you really want to find out?

[Neely2005]

Do you really want to find out?

We have 1 win. It can't get much worse.

[RB957]

We have 1 win. It can't get much worse.

You are right... but Bo Levi Mitchell was not the answer to our situation, not with the O-line that we have. He probably would have gotten injured even sooner than he did... and what is the point of having a $700k quarterback who is injured and can't play.

[Al&Kat]

You are right... but Bo Levi Mitchell was not the answer to our situation, not with the O-line that we have. He probably would have gotten injured even sooner than he did... and what is the point of having a $700k quarterback who is injured and can't play.

Highly paid QB that is always injured? been there, done that.
See Argos 2015 when fortunately a young Trevor Harris saved our season.
See Argos 2018 when nobody saved our season (however 4 wins looks good right now...)

[Argofan_1000]

Highly paid QB that is always injured? been there, done that.
See Argos 2015 when fortunately a young Trevor Harris saved our season.
See Argos 2018 when nobody saved our season (however 4 wins looks good right now...)

so how do we prepare for next year

[Ron]

so how do we prepare for next year

Stay the course.

[Neely2005]

Stay the course.

We've won 2 games this season. Staying the course doesn't seem like the best idea.

[ArgoZ]

Every week, the blunders of our head coach show up. Imagine if this were a good team and his coaching decisions cost us close games? You have to know your team, it’s strengths, the game situation and make the proper decision. Why keep the Coach around if he’s costing them points and chances of winning? The season is done, financial issues, no suitable replacements, are excuses I’ve heard. Those are not acceptable reasons to keep someone who is incapable of doing what is asked, his job. He’s actually a very likeable guy, seems great in interviews and practice, but when the lights are on, he plainly sucks. Nice Oakley’s with authentic strap he’s was wearing last night. I have those.

[jerrym]

Chamblin's bizarre calls, such as not going for the TD on third and two on the two yard line and then going for it on third and five on your 53 just before the half yesterday thereby giving Calgary a free FG, and numerous highly likely-to-lose challenges alone should get him fired at the end of the season. It almost seems like his brain freezes in these situations.

[Argo57]

Chamblin's bizarre calls, such as not going for the TD on third and two on the two yard line and then going for it on third and five on your 53 just before the half yesterday thereby giving Calgary a free FG, and numerous highly likely-to-lose challenges alone should get him fired at the end of the season. It almost seems like his brain freezes in these situations.

Very good DC, brutal HC.

[Shatto]

In all likelihood both will be replaced for next season But, more importantly, before that occurs, Manning must be replaced with a CFL knowledgeably and hopefully media wise president. The president does not make football decisions but he chooses the people who do!

[argotom]

Must clean house, GM, HC and to most of the players to include the QB lousy stable.
Like most have been saying a real team President is a must.

[Argo57]

Must clean house, GM, HC and to most of the players to include the QB lousy stable.
Like most have been saying a real team President is a must.

Popp has failed in addressing major roster deficiencies that go back a couple of years (O-Line and Defensive Secondary) just to name a couple and Chamblin and his staff have done a pretty poor coaching job as well so IMO they both should go.
Selling the status quo to an already restless fan base with declining attendance numbers is like playing Russian roulette with your future.
When apathy starts to set in with your core fan base you are in serious shit.

[doubleblue]

Must clean house, GM, HC and to most of the players to include the QB lousy stable.
Like most have been saying a real team President is a must.

Checking around the League it looks like Calgary and Winnipeg have President's that actually played football. Not sure about Scott Mitchell in Hamilton. But otherwise teams seem to have a President like Manning not ex football players.
A General Manager plus Head of Football Operations seems to be the most popular position. But the thing is getting the right guy.
The Calgary blue print would seem to be the one to copy, but you have to find another John Hufnagel to make it work. I noticed Calgary has more scouts listed (5) than other teams, and then Huff has great contacts in the NFL from his many years there. Calgary just always seems to have a replacement ready for every player they lose. It obviously isn't by accident. Jim Popp probably feels he has good NFL contacts, but there are some misses in the Talent he brings in.
IMO I believe it is a God given Talent, just like a talented star player, being able to project what ones sees in a player and how he will perform in the CFL. The people that seem to have that Talent like Hufnagel, Wally Buono, Don Mathews etc. they win where ever they go. I think there was more than a few snickers when Winnipeg hired Wade Miller and Kyle Walters in Winnipeg but they have rebuilt a team that was weak in Canadian talent and very average imports. You find one of these guys and you are in business. The trick is finding them.

[Will]

Even if you could argue that Chamblin doesn't have the personnel (because of Popp), I don't see how you can excuse the head-scratching in-game decisions.

[Antwon]

I’m less concerned about adding a new president with a football background. I think MLSE will keep Manning in place, but it’s imperative they hire a new GM and a VP of football Operations. Then they need to hire a new HC. I see no way Popp is resigned for next year. Maybe he’ll get the phone call right after the last game.

[AngeloV]

Checking around the League it looks like Calgary and Winnipeg have President's that actually played football. Not sure about Scott Mitchell in Hamilton. But otherwise teams seem to have a President like Manning not ex football players.
.

I knew Scott Mitchell was a former UofT QB turned receiver, but in looking up his bio with the Ti-Cats, he was also at Bucknell in the NCAA (same school Kevin Eiben attended), so yes, he too has a football background.

[1971GreyCup]

I knew Scott Mitchell was a former UofT QB turned receiver, but in looking up his bio with the Ti-Cats, he was also at Bucknell in the NCAA (same school Kevin Eiben attended), so yes, he too has a football background.

You can add to the fact that Scott Mitchell is the son of Douglas Mitchell who was a CFL player, executive and commissioner too.

[R.J]

Very good DC, brutal HC.
Debatable on the former, obviously not the latter though. Chamblin has really only had 1 good season as a defensive co-ordinator to date.

[AngeloV]

Let's just change the coach and GM combination every year. Let's see how much that improves things.

[Will]

Let's just change the coach and GM combination every year. Let's see how much that improves things.

Yes, you can argue that Chamblin doesn't have the personnel, but I don't see how you can excuse the mind-boggling in-game decisions. It's happened more than once.

[AngeloV]

Yes, you can argue that Chamblin doesn't have the personnel, but I don't see how you can excuse the mind-boggling in-game decisions. It's happened more than once.

I agree, and I was very vocal about it. Having said that, (and I know he made some strange calls on 3rd down last game), he has been much better overall in the 2nd third of the season where the team easily could have (should have?) been 4-2 in as opposed to the 2-4 record they had. The first third was a disaster, no doubt about it. Sometimes teams need to learn how to win. I want to see how he finishes the season before even debating if the team really needs to change coach and/or GM. Starting over every year to me is not the way to go.

[paulwoods13]

There are other options beyond firing the GM and HC, like changing up assistant coaches, getting a FT DC to ensure the HC is not spread too thin, etc. I felt earlier this year that the entire coaching staff was unlikely to return, but I'm far less sure about that now. I think Chamblin (and Popp, for that matter) are more likely to be back than be jettisoned.

[paulwoods13]

It's also worth noting (again) that Bill Manning spent four years working in the front office of the Philadelphia Eagles. (Not that football experience matters a great deal at the CEO level, IMO.) Manning has also worked for the NBA's Houston Rockets and for two MLS teams including TFC. He has close to two decades' experience in professional sports mgmt.

[gilthethrill]

It's also worth noting (again) that Bill Manning spent four years working in the front office of the Philadelphia Eagles. (Not that football experience matters a great deal at the CEO level, IMO.) Manning has also worked for the NBA's Houston Rockets and for two MLS teams including TFC. He has close to two decades' experience in professional sports mgmt.

In defence of Manning, is it not a lot to ask a guy to be President of 2 sport franchises? Could that not lead to burnout?

[Argofan_1000]

In defence of Manning, is it not a lot to ask a guy to be President of 2 sport franchises? Could that not lead to burnout?

3down is saying Manning asked Pinball to work with the Argos . This posted today.
https://3downnation.com/2019/09/24/michael-pinball-clemons-has-been-involved-with-the-argos-recently/

[Argo57]

Let's just change the coach and GM combination every year. Let's see how much that improves things.

This is a tough one Angelo, I understand your sentiment but attendance numbers are dropping and apathy seems to be setting in so keeping the status quo may be a difficult sell to this fan base.

[Blue90]

Let's just change the coach and GM combination every year. Let's see how much that improves things.

How has the coaching done this year? Any positive things you have seen in the team this year?

[ArgoZ]

I agree, and I was very vocal about it. Having said that, (and I know he made some strange calls on 3rd down last game), he has been much better overall in the 2nd third of the season where the team easily could have (should have?) been 4-2 in as opposed to the 2-4 record they had. The first third was a disaster, no doubt about it. Sometimes teams need to learn how to win. I want to see how he finishes the season before even debating if the team really needs to change coach and/or GM. Starting over every year to me is not the way to go.


There are other options beyond firing the GM and HC, like changing up assistant coaches, getting a FT DC to ensure the HC is not spread too thin, etc. I felt earlier this year that the entire coaching staff was unlikely to return, but I'm far less sure about that now. I think Chamblin (and Popp, for that matter) are more likely to be back than be jettisoned.

You guys are way to positive, nice and patient. Chamblin is over his head. We see it every week. There’s no way he’s back in any competent franchise. I don’t think he’s improved at all. I foresee more bonehead calls to finish the season. This franchise can’t afford this. Popp on an interim basis would be better, he’s on the sidelines anyway (another issue).

[Neely2005]

Around the 3 Minute Mark:

https://post.futurimedia.com/chumam/playlist/87/listen-17348.html?cb=1569329467.670505

Sounds like Popp is gone but Chamblin is staying?

[Nob]

The team is 6 - 24 in their last 30 games. The Grey Cup season before all of that was a 9-9 season, with a strong finish. It seems like forever ago since we had a team with a winning record that was worth getting excited about.

With Popp's contract expiring it's not really a ringing endorsement for an extension. Yes, he was a legend in Montreal, but those days seem like a long time ago (and one can debate how good he was, versus how fortunate he was to have HOF QB's).

Chamblin's in-game decisions have been puzzling, absurd, and obscure (and well dissected on this board). Plus the end of his HC days in Saskatchewan weren't impressive either. The bottom line is he may not be HC material.

I have never been a Chapdelaine fan. Ever. If he fell out of the organization it wouldn't bother me.

I hear the cry of "we can't change the GM and HC every year", but can they really go forward with this braintrust and expect fans to believe that things will be better??? Let alone bring in new people to games?

The die-hard fans are doing exactly that. At this rate they will all be killed off by this team, and then what's left?

[Shatto]

The team deserves a president who is fully committed to the sole priority of making the Argos a success. Though not everyone agrees , it would be a huge advantage the have a knowledgeable and experienced CFL individual , devoted to and evaluated on, only one thing ---the success of the Argos.

Though the CEO does not get involved in everyday football decisions, it is the CEO who selects the people who do make those decisions. The role of a CEO includes setting the vision for the organization and most importantly selecting the right people to make that vision a reality. If Manning does have a vision for the team, it certainly has not been communicated to the media or fans. If either or both of Chamblin and Popp are replaced, hopefully a new and more CFL experienced president will make the decision.

The success of any organizations starts at the top ---that is why the person at the top gets the big bucks. Manning has to take responsibility for the team's lack of success not only on the field but also at the gate. The team deserves more than a part time CEO, especially one with very limited background in our game.

[paulwoods13]

In defence of Manning, is it not a lot to ask a guy to be President of 2 sport franchises? Could that not lead to burnout?

Burnout is possible in any number of positions; some individuals have more capacity than others. I doubt Manning has significantly greater workload or feels significantly greater pressure than the presidents of the Leafs or Raptors do.

[paulwoods13]

You guys are way to positive, nice and patient. Chamblin is over his head. We see it every week. There’s no way he’s back in any competent franchise. I don’t think he’s improved at all. I foresee more bonehead calls to finish the season. This franchise can’t afford this. Popp on an interim basis would be better, he’s on the sidelines anyway (another issue).

For the record, my comment -- There are other options beyond firing the GM and HC, like changing up assistant coaches, getting a FT DC to ensure the HC is not spread too thin, etc. I felt earlier this year that the entire coaching staff was unlikely to return, but I'm far less sure about that now. I think Chamblin (and Popp, for that matter) are more likely to be back than be jettisoned. -- was not an opinion about what should happen, it was a statement about what could happen.

[paulwoods13]

The team deserves a president who is fully committed to the sole priority of making the Argos a success. Though not everyone agrees , it would be a huge advantage the have a knowledgeable and experienced CFL individual , devoted to and evaluated on, only one thing ---the success of the Argos.

Though the CEO does not get involved in everyday football decisions, it is the CEO who selects the people who do make those decisions. The role of a CEO includes setting the vision for the organization and most importantly selecting the right people to make that vision a reality. If Manning does have a vision for the team, it certainly has not been communicated to the media or fans. If either or both of Chamblin and Popp are replaced, hopefully a new and more CFL experienced president will make the decision.

The success of any organizations starts at the top ---that is why the person at the top gets the big bucks. Manning has to take responsibility for the team's lack of success not only on the field but also at the gate. The team deserves more than a part time CEO, especially one with very limited background in our game.

There would be no downside to having a full-time CEO, but there's no reason to believe MLSE is going to appoint one. The Argos and TFC are much smaller entities within MLSE than the Leafs and Raptors, and in the Argos' case at least (and very likely TFC's as well) are money-losing entities. From a purely business standpoint I can see why MLSE would decide to split the roles. Maybe this will change at some point, but I don't expect that to happen in the foreseeable future. As long as the two teams share a CEO, it's not realistic to expect one who does not have a background in one of the two sports. Manning has worked (before MLSE) in both soccer and football, so it's not surprising that he is the CEO charged with shared responsibility for both the Argos and TFC.

[Shatto]

I don't think it is just semantics, when I prefer the concept of there being a potential huge upside in having a new CEO. Fully agree that MLSE is unlikely to appoint one, however.

The blame for the present untenable situation falls more on MLSE than Manning. After all, it was their decision to appoint a president with little knowledge and/or understanding of the CFL. It was their decision to appoint a part time Argo CEO, rather than one fully and solely committed to making the Argos a success. Manning is hardly to blame for MLSE's poor decision.

[Argo57]

Around the 3 Minute Mark:

https://post.futurimedia.com/chumam/playlist/87/listen-17348.html?cb=1569329467.670505

Sounds like Popp is gone but Chamblin is staying?

What I heard is ownership will re-evaluate the Argos top to bottom, which is what you expect Manning to say.

[1971GreyCup]

Am I missing something, but the Argos organizational chart vs. Ticats organizational chart is startling thin. And the Argos President is part time?

Caretaker
Bob Young

Chief Executive Officer
Scott Mitchell

Executive Vice President
Doug Rye

President & COO of Business Operations
Matt Afinec
mafinec@ticats.ca
Vice President, Business Operations
Shaun Guest
sguest@ticats.ca
Vice Chairman
Glenn Gibson
ggibson@ticats.ca

Ticket Sales & Corporate Partnerships
Director, Corporate Partnerships
Kyle Lohnes
klohnes@ticats.ca
Director, Business Development
Will Kay
wkay@ticats.ca
Director, Client Retention & Group Sales
Nicole Demers
ndemers@ticats.ca
Manager, Premium Seating Services & Events
Lyndsay Boyd
lboyd@ticats.ca
Manager, Corporate Partnerships
Mike Ecclestone
mecclestone@ticats.ca
Coordinator, Client Service
Emily Smith
esmith@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Taylor Spilak
tspilak@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Jacob Wilson
jwilson@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Katie Pratt
kpratt@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Jesse Bonnar
jbonnar@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Chris De Sousa
cdesousa@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Alanna Irvine
airvine@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Spencer Walker
swalker@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Tyler MacKillop
tmackillop@ticats.ca
Account Executive, Ticket Sales & Service
Luke Vermeer
lvermeer@ticats.ca

Ticket Operations
Director, Data Analytics & Business Intelligence
Jonathan Prinsell
jprinsell@ticats.ca
Manager, Ticket Operations & Data Analytics
Anthony Mancuso
amancuso@ticats.ca
Coordinator, Ticket Operations
Spencer Matson
smatson@ticats.ca

Marketing, Content & Gameday
Director, Marketing & Digital
Mike Hardill
mhardill@ticats.ca
Director, Game Production & Events
Seth Strankman
sstrankman@ticats.ca
Manager, Creative Services
Michelle Rechkemmer
mrechkemmer@ticats.ca
Manager, Game Production & Events
Alex Bruno
abruno@ticats.ca
Senior Coordinator, Marketing & Fan Communications
Sophie Kargl
skargl@ticats.ca
Senior Coordinator, Social Media & Digital Content
Ryan Scarfone
rscarfone@ticats.ca
Coordinator, Graphic Design
Daniel Ventresca
dventresca@ticats.ca
Producer, Video & Motion Graphics
Corey Nusca
cnusca@ticats.ca
Producer, Video & Motion Graphics
Zakk Di Sabatino
zdisabatino@ticats.ca

Communications & Community
Director, Communications
Aaron Gogishvili
agogishvili@ticats.ca
Director, Community Development
Kevin Matchett
kmatchett@ticats.ca
Manager, Community & Events
Samantha Brewer
sbrewer@ticats.ca
Communications Specialist
Jacob Wolfenden
jwolfenden@ticats.ca
Coordinator, Amateur Football
Alec Robertson
arobertson@ticats.ca

Retail Operations & Tiger-Cats Shop
Manager, Retail Operations
Kevin Jaggard
kjaggard@ticats.ca
Retail Sales Lead
Denise Bradshaw
dbradshaw@ticats.ca
Warehouse/Online Lead
Adam Barnes
abarnes@ticats.ca

Tim Hortons Field
Senior Director, Stadium Events & Operations
Gerry Fonzo
gfonzo@ticats.ca
Director, Fan Relations
Mark McGinley
mmcginley@ticats.ca
Coordinator, Guest Experience
Jonathan Hanley
jhanley@ticats.ca
Coordinator, Stadium Events & Operations
Bryan Chatten
bchatten@ticats.ca
Coordinator, Stadium Events & Operations
Darren Ross
dross@ticats.ca
Director, Security
Kevin Beda


Finance & Administration
Vice President, Finance & Administration
Dan Deighton

Senior Accountant
Casey Mitropoulos

Accountant
Ryan Fearnside

Information Technology Coordinator
Evan Caswell



ARGOS

President
Bill Manning

General Manager
Jim Popp

Director, Canadian Scouting
Vince Magri
Director of Player Personnel
John Murphy

Player Relations Advisor and Football Ops Assistant
Matt Black

Coordinator of Logistics
Alex Russell

Scout
Justin Casey
Scout
Rudy Jacobs

Director of Video
Jon Magri

Video Assistant & Scout
Timur Malik

Asst to the G.M.
Stacey Wilson

COMMUNICATIONS

Manager, Football Media
Chris Balenovich
Manager, Communication
Mike Hogan

[1971GreyCup]

And by the way I could care less for comparisons with the other MLSE properties. And I thought David Braley was cheap!

[paulwoods13]

Yeah, I'm sure the Argos have no ticket sales staff.

[1971GreyCup]

Certainly don’t have several Presidents, CEOs, a Chairman etc.

I don’t know of any outgoing ticket sales initiatives. By the way Ottawa Redblacks have more brand ambassadors that Toronto has football operations staff.

Didn’t OTTAWA and Hamilton sellouts games this year?? Curious.

Mind you things are hunky dory in Toronto so no criticism is warranted. 8,900 fans last game?

Ottawa staff:

Ottawa RedBlacks

Staff

Senior Executive Team
Mark Goudie
Chief Executive Officer, OSEG
John Mathers
Senior Vice President, Brand & Business Development
Adrian Sciarra
Senior Vice President, Sports Business Operations
David Porter
Senior Vice President, Finance & Technology
Randy Burgess
Vice President, Communications & Special Projects
Stephanie Spruston
Vice President, Corporate Services & General Counsel
Anne-Marie Villeneuve
Vice President, Guest Experience & Operations
Janice Barresi
Executive Director, OSEG Foundation

Ottawa REDBLACKS
Marcel Desjardins
General Manager
Jeremy Snyder
Assistant General Manager

Joey Swarbrick
Coordinator of Football Operations
Adrien Bourdon
Football Operations Assistant
Philippe Moreau
Football Operations Assistant
Marcelo Cuenca
Head Athletic Therapist
Nick Mercuri
Athletic Therapist/Strength & Conditioning
Kengo Saeki
Athletic Therapist
Dr. Glenn Copeland
Director of Medical Service
RJ James
Equipment Manager
Drew McCormick
Assistant Equipment Manager
Colin Farquharson
Video Coodinator
Braun Gheller
Video Assistant
Brandon Ma
Seasonal Assistant Strength & Conditioning Coordinator
Nicholas Mossop
Equipment Assistant
Drew McCormick
Equipment Assistant
Corporate Partnerships & Consumer Products
Matthew Bennett
Director, Corporate Partnerships
Erin O`Connell
Account Director, Corporate Partnerships
Calvin Amell
Senior Manager, Corporate Partnerships
Bianca Oran
Manager, Corporate Partnerships
Matt Vacon
Manager, Retail Operations
Tommy Killen
Assistant Retail Operations Manager
Chris Fitchett
Account Coordinator
Erin Wylie
Account Coordinator, Corporate Partnerships
Guest Experience
Paul Askin
Director, Public Safety & Transportation
Paul Ausman
Manager, Event Services
Trevor Anders
Manager, Public Safety
Bianca Molnar
Assistant Manager, Event Services
Melanie Silver
Staffing Assistant, Event Services
Rebekah Beattie
Public Safety Supervisor
Shelly Grecco
Public Safety Coordinator
Scott Lehman
Lead Supervisor, Public Safety
Scott Rispin
Supervisor, Public Safety
Caitlin Beaumont
Supervisor, Public Safety
Mitch Craig
Coordinator, Event Services
Operations
Chris Wynn
Director, Operations
Brian Giles
Facilities Manager
Ken Duncan
Property Manager
Trevor Chyzyi-Vince
Electrician
Steve MacLaren
Electrician
Brian Sloan
HVAC Operator
Darryl Brown
Plumber
Murray Mills
Plumber
Kyle Smiley
Senior Facilities Maintenance Technician
Ian Varo
Senior Facilities Maintenance Technician
Matthew Shearer
Facilities Maintenance Technician
Travis Skelding
Manager, Event Operations
Sage Winogron
Operations Supervisor
Robin Traill
Event Production Coordinator
Emily Terry
Administrative Assistant, Operations
Corporate Services
Tracey Villeneuve
HR Business Partner
Torie Billings
HR Business Partner
Katherine Lapalme
HR Business Partner
Adam Laderoute
Human Resources Specialist
Bentley McKay
HR Coordinator
Richard Baker
Payroll Administrator
Matt Perron
Legal Counsel
Adrian Carrier
Volunteer Coordinator
Finance and Technology
Eric Childers
Director Ticket Operations
Pete Chamberlin
Director IT
Bob Gates
Manager Financial Reporting
Sophie Lalonde
Controller
Stephanie Narducci
Assistant Controller
Regine Gowdy
Senior Accounts Receivable
Jiaxi Wei
Financial Accountant
Mitch Fournier
Senior Accounts Payable
Jared Ayer
Accounts Payable Specialist
Emmanuel Yembi
Accounts Receivable
Jiying Feng
Accounting Coordinator
Brian Willmott
IT Manager
Patrick Wheeler
Assistant Manager, Ticket Operations
David Freeman
IT Technical Support
Brent Epps
Audio Visual Technician
Kyle Stenfert
Audio Visual Technician
Dan Ciparis
Ticket Operations Coordinator
Business Development
Val Hughes
Director, Events and Production
Erin Coyle
Manager, Live Entertainment
Kristen Johnston
Manager, Event Services
Patricia Tippett
Event Production Coordinator
Madeleine Brazeau
Calendar/Booking Coordinator
Lindsay Fitzpatrick
Event Coordinator, Live Entertainment
Courtney Hyde
Executive Assistant
Chloe Park
Business Development Administrator

Brand and Business Development - Business Intelligence, Communications and Production
Matt Jackowetz
Director, Business Intelligence
Paul Prose
Game Day and Video Producer
Matt Lypko
Business Analyst
Chris Hofley
Manager, Communications
Derek Robinson
Video Systems Coordinator
Colin Murphy
Videographer
Alex Pilote
Communications Coordinator
Antonie Godin
Communications Specialist
Warren Reed
Data Analyst
Arend Nijhuis
Game Presentation Coordinator
Brand and Business Development - Marketing
Jon Sinden
Director, Marketing
Mark Sluban
Manager, Community Events
Brianne Fodor
Manager, Brand and Marketing
Audra Sherman
Community Engagement Specialist
Greg Amiel
Coordinator, Community Events
Kenzie Scott
Brand and Product Marketing Specialist
Jacob Kelly
Growth Hacker
Michael Reid
Growth Hacker
Hailey Davis
Growth Hacker
Jawad Abou-zraiba
Web Developer
Brand and Business Development - Ticket Sales and Service
Chris Atack
Director, Ticket Sales and Service
Brock Gibson
Manager, Ticket Sales & Service
Lauren Epp
Manager, B2B
Damian Ford
Team Lead, New Business
Blake Duffy
Team Lead, Group Sales
Jacob Weinstein
Account Manager, Season-Seat Membership
Jarret Miller
Account Manager, Season-Seat Membership
Luke Denley
Group Experience Specialist
Greg Robertson
Fan Services Specialist
Patrick Allen
Fan Services Specialist
Logan Kitchener
Account Manager, Group Sales
Eddie Edward
Account Manager, Group Sales
Chad Mallory
Account Manager, Group Sales
Ashley Thibaudeau
Account Manager, New Business
Mitchell Schnitzler
Account Manager, New Business
Kyle Kirkwood
Account Manager, New Business
Chad Mallory
Account Manager, New Business
Cameron Poulin
Account Manager, New Business
Chad Mallory
Account Manager, New Business
Jarret Miller
Account Manager, New Business
Chantal Rice
Account Manager, New Business
Bethany Smith
Account Manager, New Business
Jack Katzman
Account Manager, New Business
Sam Norwood
Account Manager, New Business
Bethany Smith
Account Manager, New Business
Kyle Kirkwood
Sales Academy Coach
OSEG Foundation
Nancy Crump
Senior Manager, Development and Donor Communications
David Gourlay
Senior Manager, Major Gifts
Adrian Carrier
50/50 Coordinator
Jordyn Pimm
Development Assistant

[1971GreyCup]

I’ve been to a few RedBlacks games in Ottawa and some Ticats games on Hamilton. I can’t get the Ticats/RedBlacks pesky ticket department people to stop calling me. I cannot remember the last time I got a call from the Argos. I tried to book a BMO suite and no one got back to me. 臘*♂️臘*♂️

[paulwoods13]

Mind you things are hunky dory in Toronto so no criticism is warranted. 8,900 fans last game?


Why is it that if there isn't unanimous agreement with criticism of the organization, sarcastic comments like this invariably get made?

[Neely2005]

Certainly don’t have several Presidents, CEOs, a Chairman etc.

I don’t know of any outgoing ticket sales initiatives. By the way Ottawa Redblacks have more brand ambassadors that Toronto has football operations staff.

Didn’t OTTAWA and Hamilton sellouts games this year?? Curious.

Mind you things are hunky dory in Toronto so no criticism is warranted. 8,900 fans last game?


9800, Not 8900.

[1971GreyCup]

I guess I am not in the camp that accepts the status quo. I put one and one together and get two. The Argos invested little in the brand while kept on life support by David Braley. Now that MLSE has taken over they seem to be downsizing. Can you blame anyone for the frustration as the fans attendance hits unimaginable levels. Not so long ago this was a highly respected brand.

It seems that both Ottawa and Hamilton have invested in their brands. I think the results speak for themselves.

Am I wrong here?

Perhaps Calgary is a better example, given that they are owned by the holding company that owns the Flames. I can look at their corporate structure and see if the Stamps have brought in-house all their operations staff.

When I hear that the Argos are disappointed with results from on field and on the stands, I ask what initiatives specifically were undertaken and what investments were made that didn’t work out. I think these are fair questions.

Bill Manning has an impressive CV. There isn’t anyone between him and Jim Popp to execute his vision? He has half of his attention span. Maybe only 25% given the investment and importance of TFC to MLSE?

[1971GreyCup]

9800, Not 8900.

Wasn’t 5,000 bandied about at one time?

[Neely2005]

Wasn’t 5,000 bandied about at one time?

Only by Trolls. Anyone who was at the game knows that's ridiculous.

[paulwoods13]

Now that MLSE has taken over they seem to be downsizing.

Or maybe they are assigning MLSE staff to service all five of their brands. There is no doubt that is happening on the ticket side, and presumably it's also happening in finance, HR and other front-office/admin functions. From a corporate perspective why wouldn't they do that? The only areas that truly need to be team-specific are football/hockey/basketball/soccer ops and comms, IMO. In Hamilton, the Ticats are by far the biggest revenue-generator of the two sports team brands, so it's no wonder the Ticats have a big front office. Same with Ottawa (if the soccer team there is in fact owned by OSEG -- I'm just presuming that to be the case). In Toronto, Argos are likely the fourth-largest revenue generator among the MLSE brands, and exponentially below the top two.

[Shatto]

Not sure if this fits Into the discussion or not but under the previous regime I'd get 4 to 6 calls from my "personal rep" just before and during the season. Sometimes it was to notify me of a special promotion and sometimes just to keep in touch. As a result of that personal contact I upgraded our seats. Additionally, I would normally order a dozen or more individual tickets each year for family ad friends.

Now, I receive no calls and whether it is a result of that absence of contact or not, I have only purchased one extra ticket this year. Maybe it is unfair to say but I have the impression (rightly or wrongly) the organization doesn't care about me as much as they did previously. My impression may be completely wrong but as a colleague was want to say, "perception is reality to the perceiving individual"

[doubleblue]

Around the 3 Minute Mark:

https://post.futurimedia.com/chumam/playlist/87/listen-17348.html?cb=1569329467.670505

Sounds like Popp is gone but Chamblin is staying?

Hard to say. I lean more to many new assistants because most of them probably have 1 year contracts. It wouldn't be a big deal for MLSE to eat Chamblin's last two years if there wasn't a cap on the Management side. But Trestman is still owed another year as well. I can't see Pinball wanting to take as GM or Coach as he has another interests on going. He is a great salesman and could probably get a few more ST's sold. An exciting winning QB would have more of an impact IMO. Look what Vernon Adams is doing in Montreal. However, I don't see someone like that on the current Argo team.
Damen Allen seems to be around every game watching and glad handing fans. Maybe just the Team trying to add some former star power but I did read once that he would be interested in the Management side of things but not Coaching. Hmmmm

[Argo57]

Hard to say. I lean more to many new assistants because most of them probably have 1 year contracts. It wouldn't be a big deal for MLSE to eat Chamblin's last two years if there wasn't a cap on the Management side. But Trestman is still owed another year as well. I can't see Pinball wanting to take as GM or Coach as he has another interests on going. He is a great salesman and could probably get a few more ST's sold. An exciting winning QB would have more of an impact IMO. Look what Vernon Adams is doing in Montreal. However, I don't see someone like that on the current Argo team.
Damen Allen seems to be around every game watching and glad handing fans. Maybe just the Team trying to add some former star power but I did read once that he would be interested in the Management side of things but not Coaching. Hmmmm

Trestman signed a 3 year deal before the 2017 season, he has been paid out.

[doubleblue]

Trestman signed a 3 year deal before the 2017 season, he has been paid out.

You are correct. Time is only suppose to fly when we're having fun.

[Argo57]

You are correct. Time is only suppose to fly when we're having fun.

True enough.

[OV Argo]

And by the way I could care less for comparisons with the other MLSE properties. And I thought David Braley was cheap!


Bravo to the new corporate Argo owners and the skillful way they are marketing the team; last game attendance such a proud thing - maintain the status quo and things are bound to get better. ;o)

[doubleblue]

According to Dave Naylor on his "insider" interview last night, Mike Clemons is going to become more involved with the Argos again next season.
So the speculation begins. I can't see the position being more than someone to work with Bill Manning over seeing the Football side of things and being the face of the Argos again.
Something positive.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree, and I was very vocal about it. Having said that, (and I know he made some strange calls on 3rd down last game), he has been much better overall in the 2nd third of the season where the team easily could have (should have?) been 4-2 in as opposed to the 2-4 record they had. The first third was a disaster, no doubt about it. Sometimes teams need to learn how to win. I want to see how he finishes the season before even debating if the team really needs to change coach and/or GM. Starting over every year to me is not the way to go.

I think AV and I share the same brain. I don't think this team is that far away but I also think that much of the problem at this point is that they haven't learned how to win ... yet.

[R.J]

Mind boggling that some actually think it's a good idea to keep Chamblin and Popp around.

[OV Argo]

Mind boggling that some actually think it's a good idea to keep Chamblin and Popp around.


LOL - but there are always going to be defenders of the faith who dare not question anything the Argo braintrust (sic) does; maybe Jimbo and Scotty should still be in charge.

[Shatto]

The tam is both boring and incompetent. Can't coach or GM being retained.

[doubleblue]

Well it looked like the heavy hitters were making a show of force on the side lines tonight. Manning there for a while and then it looked like the head of Bell (Cope)? spent much of the 1st half with Pinball. Something could be in the wind. But I don't think it would do any good to make any changes at this stage of the season. We still remember the year they brought Don Mathews out of mothballs and they went 0 and 8 under the Don, if I remember correctly.
This is the first time the team looked to a have quit on Cory Chamblin, but maybe the Riders are just that good now. The Argos looked unprepared and over matched.

[Neely2005]

Mind boggling that some actually think it's a good idea to keep Chamblin and Popp around.

I say keep them around. The beer lines move slowly and they could use some extra staff.

[Argo57]

Well it looked like the heavy hitters were making a show of force on the side lines tonight. Manning there for a while and then it looked like the head of Bell (Cope)? spent much of the 1st half with Pinball. Something could be in the wind. But I don't think it would do any good to make any changes at this stage of the season. We still remember the year they brought Don Mathews out of mothballs and they went 0 and 8 under the Don, if I remember correctly.
This is the first time the team looked to a have quit on Cory Chamblin, but maybe the Riders are just that good now. The Argos looked unprepared and over matched.

Wholesale changes must be made (if possible) at seasons end, this organization needs a shot in the arm and won’t get it with the crappy product currently being presented to the increasingly cranky fan base.

[Shatto]

It is hard to watch this team. The team looks disorganized and badly prepared. The team showed dismal clock management late in the 1st half---has the team never practiced a hurry up offense? In principle, I am against changing coaches or GM's during the season but surely they won't be back next season.

[Neely2005]

Wholesale changes must be made (if possible) at seasons end, this organization needs a shot in the arm and won’t get it with the crappy product currently being presented to the increasingly cranky fan base.

The fanbase is cranky because they're tired of coming to BMO Field and watching garbage performances and blowout losses.

[Argofan_1000]

Wholesale changes must be made (if possible) at seasons end, this organization needs a shot in the arm and won’t get it with the crappy product currently being presented to the increasingly cranky fan base.

I wouldn't make changes this late in the season. If they are going with a new team then you must give this new team lots of time in the off season. They don't need the pressure to explain another loss and getting dragged into this. Their focus has to be game preparation and personnel

[Argo57]

I wouldn't make changes this late in the season. If they are going with a new team then you must give this new team lots of time in the off season. They don't need the pressure to explain another loss and getting dragged into this. Their focus has to be game preparation and personnel

Read the first sentence of my post “at seasons end”.

[1971GreyCup]

The powers that be decided that the problem in 2018 was Marc Trestman and he was fired. The 2019 outcome is worse than 2018. So both GM and HC have to go.

As for comments on QBs why don’t we cut and paste all those made from July 13, 2018 onwards? We have the identical issues again this year. I am starting to feel like Bill Murray in “Groundhog Day.” Without Sonny & Cher. Also this isn’t very funny.

[Will]

Popp and Chamblin got to go.

[doubleblue]

It is hard to watch this team. The team looks disorganized and badly prepared. The team showed dismal clock management late in the 1st half---has the team never practiced a hurry up offense? In principle, I am against changing coaches or GM's during the season but surely they won't be back next season.

That was a little weird wasn't it. Most teams would have called a time out, use some quick sideline passes and give Crapigna a shot at a long field goal. The wind was blowing in his favour.
But we're getting use to such thinking. Like punting near mid field in a game on 3rd and two feet, and then going for it 3rd and 2 yards in easy field goal position.

[AngeloV]

The powers that be decided that the problem in 2018 was Marc Trestman and he was fired. The 2019 outcome is worse than 2018. So both GM and HC have to go.

As for comments on QBs why don’t we cut and paste all those made from July 13, 2018 onwards? We have the identical issues again this year. I am starting to feel like Bill Murray in “Groundhog Day.” Without Sonny & Cher. Also this isn’t very funny.

Let’s see. Trestman had no time for a couple of guys making a huge impact for their teams in Fajardo and Braylon Addison. He was extremely lucky that Wilder caught lightning in a bottle the 2nd half of 2017 or they likely would have finished 6-12 that season as he was as the only one that couldn’t see the Whitaker was done. He’s a control freak that is wouldn’t let Tommy Condell run his own offence. Am I missing anything?

[AngeloV]

I still don’t have faith in Manning finding a suitable replacement for Popp, but maybe that is the reason Pinball is helping out. I would have more faith in Pinball being responsible for finding a new GM than Manning for sure.

[Argo57]

Let’s see. Trestman had no time for a couple of guys making a huge impact for their teams in Fajardo and Braylon Addison. He was extremely lucky that Wilder caught lightning in a bottle the 2nd half of 2017 or they likely would have finished 6-12 that season as he was as the only one that couldn’t see the Whitaker was done. He’s a control freak that is wouldn’t let Tommy Condell run his own offence. Am I missing anything?

As you know I liked Trestman but looking back with more perspective you are 100% correct, Trestman made some decisions that have set this organization back big time.

[R.J]

I think everyone knows where I stand on Condell...

[1971GreyCup]

I hope the speculation that Pinball Clemons returning in a substantial position is correct. He is the only individual I can think of who truly loves the Argos. Never underestimate the power of passion.

It begs the question that since David Braley sold the team in 2015, why he wasn’t considered given his knowledge, experience and passion important to the future direction of the franchise.

I don’t mean to diminish the talents of any individual previously involved but honestly who has the CV or pedigree to come anywhere near matching those of Pinball?

He’s hoping that finally Pinball has an opportunity to turn the fortunes of the good ship Argo.

[gilthethrill]

I think everyone knows where I stand on Condell...

Honestly I am not sure what you think of him....he is more than just a receivers coach IMO....this season in Hamilton proves it.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I say keep them around. The beer lines move slowly and they could use some extra staff.

You would trust them with your beer?

[Neely2005]

You would trust them with your beer?

Lol, cans only.
:-)

[AngeloV]

Not surprising that those who wanted to keep Milanovich and Barker around, are the same that want to keep Chamblin and Popp around.

Because your guy Sunderland has done wonders in Edmonton.

[R.J]

Because your guy Sunderland has done wonders in Edmonton.
Meh, I'd still take him over Popp - Sunderland at least has a plan in Edmonton.

[AngeloV]

Meh, I'd still take him over Popp - Sunderland at least has a plan in Edmonton.

Really? Was his plan to get worse each year since he went there? Well he has accomplished that.

[jerrym]

Chamblin - going going ... gone.

Popp ?

[lazycro]

Chamblin - going going ... gone.

Popp ?

What was Chamblin's contract though I can't remember

[Argo57]

What was Chamblin's contract though I can't remember

Pretty sure he signed a 2 year deal.

[ArgoRavi]

I think everyone knows where I stand on Condell...

He would be my first choice for HC next year. If Chamblin could accept a demotion, let him concentrate on DC duties only. I also want to see James Franklin moved. I can no longer defend anyone after the debacle last week, especially what happened at the end of the first half.

[Argo57]

He would be my first choice for HC next year. If Chamblin could accept a demotion, let him concentrate on DC duties only. I also want to see James Franklin moved. I can no longer defend anyone after the debacle last week, especially what happened at the end of the first half.

Poor clock management falls on the QB, I have been in Franklin’s corner but it just isn’t working in Toronto.
Time to move on.

[Argo57]

He would be my first choice for HC next year. If Chamblin could accept a demotion, let him concentrate on DC duties only. I also want to see James Franklin moved. I can no longer defend anyone after the debacle last week, especially what happened at the end of the first half.

We were at the Hamilton game last night, Condell has their O playing at a championship level right now.
Well prepared and well executed game plan.

[ArgoRavi]

We were at the Hamilton game last night, Condell has their O playing at a championship level right now.
Well prepared and well executed game plan.

It has become painfully obvious that Trestman gave Condell little say in the offence last season.

[Will]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Neely2005]

This is one of the worst Argonauts teams that I've ever seen. Every coach and the GM must be fired.

[Argo57]

BC sucks but the Argos are somehow making them look good tonight.

[Neely2005]

Glen Suitor just said that might have been the worst quarter of CFL football that he's ever seen. I can't disagree, this team is a joke.

[Argo57]

Glen Suitor just said that might have been the worst quarter of CFL football that he's ever seen. I can't disagree, this team is a joke.

He is 100% correct.

[argotom]

Glen Suitor just said that might have been the worst quarter of CFL football that he's ever seen. I can't disagree, this team is a joke.

That is quite a statement, but very true.

[Neely2005]

So we'll be officially eliminated after this game. Would you start the firings tonight?

[ArgoZ]

So we'll be officially eliminated after this game. Would you start the firings tonight?
I think your forced to do the coach after this weeks preparation and subsequent effort. If not, your really telling the fan base you don’t care. But do it Monday, professionally and respectfully. Chamblin deserves that.

[ArgoRavi]

So we'll be officially eliminated after this game. Would you start the firings tonight?

Yes!!!

[argolio]

I think your forced to do the coach after this weeks preparation and subsequent effort. If not, your really telling the fan base you don’t care. But do it Monday, professionally and respectfully. Chamblin deserves that.Can't argue with that.

[Antwon]

So we'll be officially eliminated after this game. Would you start the firings tonight?

Popp is done at the end of the season. But do you trust him with the trade deadline coming up?
A new GM can make the decision on Chamblin, but it seems the HC role is beyond his skillset.
And Franklin plays like he doesn't give a sh**!
This team is a complete embarrassment!

[Shatto]

Organization is a disgrace both on and off the field. House cleaning needed top to bottom.

[doubleblue]

Popp is done at the end of the season. But do you trust him with the trade deadline coming up?
A new GM can make the decision on Chamblin, but it seems the HC role is beyond his skillset.
And Franklin plays like he doesn't give a sh**!
This team is a complete embarrassment!

Maybe one of the reasons Pinball was brought in by Manning to review any trades etc. I wouldn't mind seeing Franklin and Bethel-Thompson peddled for a middle round draft pick. But not let any of the young talent traded away. However, any of the older guys that are coming up to their FA, let them be a rental for a neg list or draft pick if there's a deal out there. Players like Holmes, Green, Edwards, Kanneh come to mind.

[R.J]

CLean out the football operations at seasons end, right some wrongs, and I'd have zero issue if Manning stays on as Team President.

[argotom]

Since the Pinball has been very visible the last few weeks and there have been rumours, he would be my President.
Bring back Eric Tillman from the prospective Halifax team as that is rumoured and then have either O'Shea or Lapolice as the head coach.
Either would be fine with me.
The team should make every effort to go after Masoli as a FA at year end.

[Blue90]

Let's just change the coach and GM combination every year. Let's see how much that improves things.

I think that now you have seen the light.

Chamblin is the worst head coach that I have ever seen and I am sure that you now agree. The team has completely quit, and that shouldn't be surprising. This guy has no business being a head coach, I wouldn't hire him to coach a high school football team.

[Shatto]

So how bad is this team and the organization behind it? Arguably, it could be the most incompetent Argo team ever. Not only losing but losing big time. Suitor on the telecast stated it was the worst first quarter he has ever seen played by a pro team---and it didn't get much better in the rest of the game. Last year was bad but this year looks far worse and that is hard to say, considering the team only won 4 games last year.

The team had fewer than ten thousand in attendance last game --an all time low for decades and decades. How many for the next game --fewer than eight thousand? After being a season ticket holder forever, I have to ask, is it worth battling the traffic, paying $25 to park and to sit and watch this disaster? Apparently many others are asking themselves the same question. According to Frank Z, many are already indicating they won't renew next year.

We could talk about marketing except I'm not aware there is any. The one thing getting positive media vibes last year was the tailgating. But, the new management, in their wisdom (or lack of) cancelled it. Yes, there is still unofficial tailgating but the team can't market it so it can't be used to attract potential fans.

The classless way Trestman was fired by a 2am phone call, as they returned from a game, kind of sums up the way this team has been managed. One intuitively knows this is not the way a person like Clemons would have handled the situation. My first year university Business 101 class , studied cases where organizations went bankrupt through mismanagement. The recent debacle of Argo mismanagement would have been an excellent case study.

In spite of it all, I'll continue to attend and cheer for the team, even if it is in a half empty stadium. But, changes and dramatic changes, are needed from top to bottom. Popp apparently is at the end of his contract so that should be no problem when replacing him. With Chamblin the team might run into a cap problem but somehow or other he has to be replaced. Perhaps offer O'Shea both HC/GM position --or some other creative way of addressing the cap. A clean sweep, including a good number of the players is desperately needed.

[lazycro]

Lol.... who made this?

http://chng.it/fgGsB9SHmN

[doubleblue]

Lol.... who made this?

http://chng.it/fgGsB9SHmN

Looks like most of these petitions are started by loonie toons. I'd like to start about a dozen petitions, but then I would be a loonie toon. I think I heard some remarks out there....lol and I resemble that.
PS. I only sign Argo petitions that use the Boat Logo.

[Will]

I am thinking back to 2000 when the Argos fired Huard. One could argue that they were close to a player and fan mutiny so the Argos were choiceless in that department. In 2019, the fans have had enough of Chamblin (for the most part), however it isn't quite 100% clear whether that applies to the players. Rod Pedersen speculates that Chamblin's players love him, but that he simply doesn't have the horses to compete. I would've agreed with that part up until a few weeks ago, but after two blowout losses against Regina and Vancouver I'm not so sure.

In 2000, the Argos hired Pinball as head coach and while that team failed to make the playoffs (the year afterward too) it did play well down the stretch, and perhaps restored a bit of good faith among the fanbase. I don't know if the 2019 edition will get that same opportunity, but even so you have to consider some factors such as whether or not a new coach would've got this core to perform any better than they have. In 2000, you know the horses were there on defence, and there is also the consideration that if Chamblin has indeed not lost the room then letting fans dictate personnel moves is wrong.

He should still go of course.

[Argo57]

I am thinking back to 2000 when the Argos fired Huard. One could argue that they were close to a player and fan mutiny so the Argos were choiceless in that department. In 2019, the fans have had enough of Chamblin (for the most part), however it isn't quite 100% clear whether that applies to the players. Rod Pedersen speculates that Chamblin's players love him, but that he simply doesn't have the horses to compete. I would've agreed with that part up until a few weeks ago, but after two blowout losses against Regina and Vancouver I'm not so sure.

In 2000, the Argos hired Pinball as head coach and while that team failed to make the playoffs (the year afterward too) it did play well down the stretch, and perhaps restored a bit of good faith among the fanbase. I don't know if the 2019 edition will get that same opportunity, but even so you have to consider some factors such as whether or not a new coach would've got this core to perform any better than they have. In 2000, you know the horses were there on defence, and there is also the consideration that if Chamblin has indeed not lost the room then letting fans dictate personnel moves is wrong.

He should still go of course.

The roster is thin on talent in a few positions, O-Line, Defensive Secondary and as it turns out QB which was not addressed by Popp and the football ops staff going back to last season a major fail on their part.
Now in regards to the coaching staff this team has more often than not been ill prepared this season which fall squarely on them.
Corey Chamblin’s in game decisions have been baffling to say the least and I suspect the players have lost faith in him and his staff as the season has gone on.
Body language speaks volumes and quite often this team looks beaten very early in games including this past Saturday when both the players and coaching staff appeared to have mailed it in which is inexcusable.
IMO making any change now is pointless as this season is officially lost.
In the wake of dwindling attendance numbers and worst of all fan apathy ownership must act swiftly and decisively at the conclusion of the season to change this teams culture heading into 2020. (Good luck recruiting high end talent and or free agents if things don’t change)!!

[ArgoGabe22]

Here’s a thought. I don’t think Pinball was brought in recently to help with coaching, I’m starting to think Manning might be grooming him as his own successor. A role Pinball once had but was more unofficial and he called the job itself, being the teams #1 fan.

[ArgoGabe22]

So Dan Ralph reports that there is a rumour that Pinball will be President, Tillman will be GM and Khari Jones a front runner for head coach.

[Stevoman]

So Dan Ralph reports that there is a rumour that Pinball will President, Tillman will be GM and Khari Jones a feint rinner for head coach.

The BC Lions stadium announcer just might end up being right!

[Neely2005]

So Dan Ralph reports that there is a rumour that Pinball will President, Tillman will be GM and Khari Jones a feint rinner for head coach.

CFL News on Twitter: "Clemons has helped Toronto win Grey Cups as a player and coach but has no experience as a GM. That role would reportedly be assumed by Eric Tillman, a CFL champion with B.C. (1994), the Argos (1997) and Saskatchewan (2007). - @danral…

https://mobile.twitter.com/CFL_News/status/1181393333702316032

[argos1873]

Chamblin's players love him,

Maybe that's so but why? Everyone loves a boss that goes easy on them. And sometimes a good boss goes easy on people at the right time. I have a feeling Chamblin goes easy on people whenever. "Yeah, he's a great guy, I fu$ked up, and he didn't even blow a gasket at me...great guy!"....I don't know. But I know he's not a good head coach. If it wasn't confirmed in Sask, its confirmed now.

[gilthethrill]

So Dan Ralph reports that there is a rumour that Pinball will be President, Tillman will be GM and Khari Jones a front runner for head coach.

I don't see Khari leaving Montreal. As for Tillman as GM, no way this team goes that route....no way.

[argofan81]

Press conference called for by the Argos today at 11am with a major announcement. Hopefully the pendulum will finally drop and a message sent that what we have had to witness as of late is not acceptable.

[Neely2005]

Popp fired:

http://www.tsn.ca/1.1378143

[ArgoGabe22]

Argos haven’t quit on their coach? Enough to bring him back? Not saying that is what I am suggesting but will management not be so quick to clean house?

[Argo57]

Argos haven’t quit on their coach? Enough to bring him back? Not saying that is what I am suggesting but will management not be so quick to clean house?

Simply trying to impress for jobs next season, hopefully sweeping changes for next season.

[Shatto]

I'd be surprised if Chamblin is back next year.

[doubleblue]

I'd be surprised if Chamblin is back next year.

His body language in the last couple of games kind of looks like he knows he toast. Also the fact they asked him if he would come back as the DC only is very telling.

[gilthethrill]

His body language in the last couple of games kind of looks like he knows he toast. Also the fact they asked him if he would come back as the DC only is very telling.

Hire Condel as his replacement and let him do his job this time around.

[Argo57]

Hire Condel as his replacement and let him do his job this time around.

Maybe he could bring Masoli with him👍

[Will]

I'd be surprised if Chamblin is back next year.

I hope that he is not.

[AngeloV]

His body language in the last couple of games kind of looks like he knows he toast. Also the fact they asked him if he would come back as the DC only is very telling.

The only person that asked him if he’d return as DC was Frank Z. The king of the stupid question.

[argotom]

Maybe he could bring Masoli with him

Yes for Condel and while we are stripping the Cats, hire Reinbold as he is the best ST coach in the league.

[AngeloV]

Yes for Condel and while we are stripping the Cats, hire Reinbold as he is the best ST coach in the league.

And why would Reinbold leave a place he loves being for a lateral position move? It’s illogical to think there is even a possibility that would happen.

[Argo57]

Yes for Condel and while we are stripping the Cats, hire Reinbold as he is the best ST coach in the league.

Hamilton are running a good program at this time, no guarantee Condell would be interested in Toronto but worth a call after the season ends.

[gilthethrill]

Hamilton are running a good program at this time, no guarantee Condell would be interested in Toronto but worth a call after the season ends.

If the HC position opens in Toronto, I would be surprised if A) Condell was not interested B) If he would not be brought in for at least an interveiw

[Argo57]

If the HC position opens in Toronto, I would be surprised if A) Condell was not interested B) If he would not be brought in for at least an interveiw

100% guaranteed many potential candidates will be contacted.

[argotom]

And why would Reinbold leave a place he loves being for a lateral position move? It’s illogical to think there is even a possibility that would happen.

Yes, maybe so.
But the last two seasons have not been normal and the new manangement team must think outside the box to get this train wreck back on the tracks.
Hiring O'Shea or Lapolice would be a great beginning for the HC position.

[paulwoods13]

The only person that asked him if he’d return as DC was Frank Z. The king of the stupid question.

I am obviously no fan of FZ (and in fact my displeasure with his work has grown again this season), but given the speculation and rumours that abounded after Popp was replaced by Pinball, the question needed to be asked. While Chamblin answered as I would have expected, sometimes individuals give surprising and illuminating answers.

[paulwoods13]

Evidently no changes before next week at the earliest.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/argos-gm-clemons-chamblins-future-addressed-off-season/

This might mean no announcements until after Grey Cup, depending on the league's desire to enforce the "no bad-news distractions" rule of recent seasons.

[doubleblue]

I am obviously no fan of FZ (and in fact my displeasure with his work has grown again this season), but given the speculation and rumours that abounded after Popp was replaced by Pinball, the question needed to be asked. While Chamblin answered as I would have expected, sometimes individuals give surprising and illuminating answers.

I like Frank. I hope that's ok. At least he gives us Football news almost everyday and the reason I buy the Toronto Sun.

[AngeloV]

I am obviously no fan of FZ (and in fact my displeasure with his work has grown again this season), but given the speculation and rumours that abounded after Popp was replaced by Pinball, the question needed to be asked. While Chamblin answered as I would have expected, sometimes individuals give surprising and illuminating answers.

Disagree. It was a useless question in which anyone else I the scrum could have answered the same way Chamblin did. Asking a question for which there will only be one answer is a waste of everyone’s time.

[paulwoods13]

Disagree. It was a useless question in which anyone else I the scrum could have answered the same way Chamblin did. Asking a question for which there will only be one answer is a waste of everyone’s time.

But there isn't just one answer to any question. Sometimes people surprise you with their answers.

[paulwoods13]

With Rick Campbell apparently getting fired in Ottawa, does he become a candidate for a job here? He always struck me as a good head coach and the kind of guy who would last years in this league.

[lazycro]

With Rick Campbell apparently getting fired in Ottawa, does he become a candidate for a job here? He always struck me as a good head coach and the kind of guy who would last years in this league.

CBC reporting that he's chosen not to return and has not been fired.

[Argo57]

CBC reporting that he's chosen not to return and has not been fired.

”You can’t fire me I quit”- Bobby “The Brain” Heenen

[paulwoods13]

Yeah, I see now it is reported to be his decision. I wonder if the Redblacks would prevent him from coaching elsewhere, assuming he had another year on his contract in Ottawa. Edm seems the most likely destination for him, assuming Maas gets whacked.

[AngeloV]

Yeah, I see now it is reported to be his decision. I wonder if the Redblacks would prevent him from coaching elsewhere, assuming he had another year on his contract in Ottawa. Edm seems the most likely destination for him, assuming Maas gets whacked.

I think it’s as close to 100% as possible he will be reunited with the rest of his team out in Edmonton next season

[Jon Gonzo]

Yeah, I see now it is reported to be his decision. I wonder if the Redblacks would prevent him from coaching elsewhere, assuming he had another year on his contract in Ottawa. Edm seems the most likely destination for him, assuming Maas gets whacked.


Nope, paid out and free to roam. OSEG is a classy group and appreciated Rick's forthright passion and honesty.

[Argo57]

Nope, paid out and free to roam. OSEG is a classy group and appreciated Rick's forthright passion and honesty.

Good on them, that type of policy will serve them well in the future.

[OV Argo]

I think it’s as close to 100% as possible he will be reunited with the rest of his team out in Edmonton next season


LOL - he would be a fit with all his guys and for a team his Dad was so influential with.

CFL GOB way = re-use, recycle; same old.

Wonder which GOB reclamation project Ottawa will turn to as their next HC; (surely not Joe Paopao - LOL).

Desjardins should have been booted way out of town along with Campbell IMO - brutally bad season & horrible football team = hit the road jack for both GM & HC .

Maybe Ottawa can still hire a GM that knows football talent and retains some key players - both the import side and Canadian football - and has a lot more respêct for the latter than Desjardins does.

[gilthethrill]

I can't help but wonder if Elinzondo and the XFL hadn't sandbagged the Red Blacks so late in the off season Ottawa would not be in this current situation.

[Argo57]

I can't help but wonder if Elinzondo and the XFL hadn't sandbagged the Red Blacks so late in the off season Ottawa would not be in this current situation.

Sounds like a lot of dysfunction behind the scenes in Ottawa, first of all the RedBlacks blocked Elizondo from interviewing in Saskatchewan in January which was a shortsighted and foolish move so I don’t blame him for waving the middle finger at them and joining Trestman in the XFL! Secondly as OC I wouldn’t be impressed if the organization (Desjardins in particular) allowed offensive stars such as Harris, Powell, Ellingson to escape via free agency which would have made his job way more difficult in 2019.

[gilthethrill]

Sounds like a lot of dysfunction behind the scenes in Ottawa, first of all the RedBlacks blocked Elizondo from interviewing in Saskatchewan in January which was a shortsighted and foolish move so I don’t blame him for waving the middle finger at them and joining Trestman in the XFL! Secondly as OC I wouldn’t be impressed if the organization (Desjardins in particular) allowed offensive stars such as Harris, Powell, Ellingson to escape via free agency which would have made his job way more difficult in 2019.

TBH I understood why Ottawa refused to let Elindondo interview for that Riders job. It was late in the off season and the team had to get their playbook together too. I thought it was a crap way for Elinzondo to treat the team that allowed him to grow as an OC.

[paulwoods13]

I guess because Ott is paying him, they have to account for it in the mgmt. cap?

https://twitter.com/TimCBaines/status/1191479298491854848

[Argo57]

TBH I understood why Ottawa refused to let Elindondo interview for that Riders job. It was late in the off season and the team had to get their playbook together too. I thought it was a crap way for Elinzondo to treat the team that allowed him to grow as an OC.

They refused to let him interview for the Riders job in January, not late at all.
Best to let him interview rather than risk a disgruntled employee or worse have him leave as he did in April.

[paulwoods13]

They refused to let him interview for the Riders job in January, not late at all.
Best to let him interview rather than risk a disgruntled employee or worse have him leave as he did in April.

I have to disagree with this. By late January there were no capable, proven replacements available, which is why they ended up going with OC by committee. I think it's reasonable for teams to give assistants a window to look elsewhere, but mid-Jan is a more than reasonable time for the window to be shut. Elizondo was within his rights to quit when he did, as was Chris Jones, but that doesn't mean other teams have to allow their own staffs to get weakened when coaches walk away unexpectedly in the off-season.

[AngeloV]

Interesting read of Chris O’Leary’s piece today suggests that the Argos did not use their mulligan re: the coaches cap on Trestman last year since it happened before the cap was actually in place, therefore they can use it on Chamblin and not have their hands tied in finding a new staff. That’s should make putting a staff in place much easier.

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/11/04/oleary-detailed-priority-list-non-playoff-team/

[Argo57]

I have to disagree with this. By late January there were no capable, proven replacements available, which is why they ended up going with OC by committee. I think it's reasonable for teams to give assistants a window to look elsewhere, but mid-Jan is a more than reasonable time for the window to be shut. Elizondo was within his rights to quit when he did, as was Chris Jones, but that doesn't mean other teams have to allow their own staffs to get weakened when coaches walk away unexpectedly in the off-season.

For sure teams are under no obligation to allow their coaches to interview in January.
However let’s say Ottawa allows Elizondo to interview for the Riders job in January and he doesn’t get the job (which was a distinct possibility) chances are he could have stayed in Ottawa, the big difference in this scenario was Elizondo having the XFL option at his disposal and he used it.

[Argo57]

Interesting read of Chris O’Leary’s piece today suggests that the Argos did not use their mulligan re: the coaches cap on Trestman last year since it happened before the cap was actually in place, therefore they can use it on Chamblin and not have their hands tied in finding a new staff. That’s should make putting a staff in place much easier.

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/11/04/oleary-detailed-priority-list-non-playoff-team/

This is very good news, any incoming coach will want to put together his own staff.

[AngeloV]

This is very good news, any incoming coach will want to put together his own staff.

That would be the case regardless as none of the assistants are under contract. That will be the norm going forward with this ridiculous cap. Good coaches will be looking at other jobs which provide more security. I think a lot will be looking towards NCAA gigs.

[paulwoods13]

For sure teams are under no obligation to allow their coaches to interview in January.
However let’s say Ottawa allows Elizondo to interview for the Riders job in January and he doesn’t get the job (which was a distinct possibility) chances are he could have stayed in Ottawa, the big difference in this scenario was Elizondo having the XFL option at his disposal and he used it.

If the Redblacks knew he was a flight risk to the XFL, it probably would have made sense to let him interview in Regina and hope he didn't get the job but would be grateful to the org for letting him try. But I suspect they had no inkling he could be poached by another league, and if that were the case, IMO it made sense to say No at that point. Saying Yes would have meant a chance (maybe 50/50) of losing him; saying No in theory meant that worst-case scenario, they would not lose him until after the 2019 season. Weighing those odds, and not realizing the XFL might scoop him, I'd likely have done what they did.

[OV Argo]

The RedBlacks might have not have had all kinds of choices in terms of same old. recycled CFL GOBs to hire as their OC at that time; if you really believe same old, standard look, simpleton offence is the only way for a CFL team, then maybe they were stuck hiring a neophyte (in terms of coaching experience - but qualifies as an American who played in the CFL for some time) coach like Winston October AND bringing in a same old, limited hack like Paopao to run their offence. Laughable, IMO, but what they hey - believe in same old, recycled thinking as the only way in football, if you wish.

IMO - a veteran local (U Sports or even Junior or HS ball) offensive coach & mind who knows Canadian football coulda done 10x better than a clown act like October & Paopâo with Campbell whispering to them. Mind you, they might fail at relating to or sucking up to the American players on the offence or in running basic, simple standard CFL offences, but, coaches should be the boss - in terms of roster and having a sharp or innovative offence & play-book. Just IMO of course. ;o)

[argolio]

I read somewhere that Ottawa ownership tightened up the purse-strings during the off-season. If true, that would explain why they lost most of their key free agents.

[Argo57]

That would be the case regardless as none of the assistants are under contract. That will be the norm going forward with this ridiculous cap. Good coaches will be looking at other jobs which provide more security. I think a lot will be looking towards NCAA gigs.

Musical chairs with the players contract rules now add the coaches to the mix, Mickey Mouse!

[Argo57]

I read somewhere that Ottawa ownership tightened up the purse-strings during the off-season. If true, that would explain why they lost most of their key free agents.

That worked out well for them!

[Argofan_1000]

That worked out well for them!

I am not a GM of a pro football team but I would think you have to have a plan and you have to play the free agent market when appropriate. Redblacks pretty good for the last 5 years up until this year. Don't know what happened to them.

[cfl-cis fan]

I read somewhere that Ottawa ownership tightened up the purse-strings during the off-season. If true, that would explain why they lost most of their key free agents.

Not sure I understand that, does that mean they are well below the salary cap!! thought most teams operate near the cap!!

[Bleeds Double Blue]

The Lions just dumped Claybrooks. Personally I would have given him one more chance as they did get better as the year went on as evident from a 55-8 thrashing of you know who and competitive games down the stretch. Are any teams looking for a good DC? I mean besides us.

[AngeloV]

The Lions just dumped Claybrooks. Personally I would have given him one more chance as they did get better as the year went on as evident from a 55-8 thrashing of you know who and competitive games down the stretch. Are any teams looking for a good DC? I mean besides us.

I wouldn’t look too much into the 55-8 game. James Franklin starts this season resulted in losses of 50, 25, 25 and 48 points.

[argotom]

The Lions just dumped Claybrooks. Personally I would have given him one more chance as they did get better as the year went on as evident from a 55-8 thrashing of you know who and competitive games down the stretch. Are any teams looking for a good DC? I mean besides us.

You would think if Claybrooks was sacked having a better record, logic says how Chamblin cannot survive?

[paulwoods13]

I doubt Pinball and Manning would make their decision based on the optics of keeping a coach with a worse record than one who got fired. Every situation needs to be considered based on its own circumstances. The decision on CC should be based on all important factors, with the won-lost record being just one of them. And imo when all factors are considered, the decision points strongly to termination.

[Argofan_1000]

this time we need to move on keeping or firing the coach after Grey Cup at the latest. Can't leave it too late this time.

[argotom]

The West semi I just watched is the best games that I can remember involving a 2 QB system since the 70's, when Barton & Theismann did it for us in what 1971.
Paul Lapolice is a genius as the OC in the way he used Collaros for the pass and Streveller to run.
I cannot remember the last time on the same team that one QB lead in the passing and the other in running.
I would definitely make a run for Lapo as our HC instead of O'Shea.
He is a visionary, has his QB's playing exciting and systems within their capabilities.

[Will]

this time we need to move on keeping or firing the coach after Grey Cup at the latest. Can't leave it too late this time.

Argos fired Trestman before you could blink, and that turned out badly.

[paulwoods13]

Ottawa used both Clements and Holloway in some games between 1975 and '78, and at times it was a change-of-pace/style approach. Edm used the two-QB system fairly regularly from 1978 to 1980, initially with Wilkinson starting and Moon coming in for some action, then the reverse. By 1981 Moon saw the lion's share of playing time, IIRC, altho Wilkie came into the 1981 Grey Cup. The Argos had two proven QBs in Holloway and Barnes, but generally did not use them in the same game except in the case of injury, altho Barnes of course relieved Holloway in the 1983 Grey Cup. Since then, can't think of any actual regular two-QB approaches. I'd hesitate to declare LaPolice a genius based on one game with a two-QB system. Let's see if they get past Sask and then Ham before the coronation.

[Argofan_1000]

Ottawa used both Clements and Holloway in some games between 1975 and '78, and at times it was a change-of-pace/style approach. Edm used the two-QB system fairly regularly from 1978 to 1980, initially with Wilkinson starting and Moon coming in for some action, then the reverse. By 1981 Moon saw the lion's share of playing time, IIRC, altho Wilkie came into the 1981 Grey Cup. The Argos had two proven QBs in Holloway and Barnes, but generally did not use them in the same game except in the case of injury, altho Barnes of course relieved Holloway in the 1983 Grey Cup. Since then, can't think of any actual regular two-QB approaches. I'd hesitate to declare LaPolice a genius based on one game with a two-QB system. Let's see if they get past Sask and then Ham before the coronation.

every team needs to use a 2 QB system. The vet takes the majority of reps but the younger is given a chance. This way there are 18 potential QB in the league that can play at this level. Didn't every QB go down this year?