Pinball Named As New GM

[Neely2005]

As per Argonauts Twitter and Facebook.

[Mightygoose]

I don't know what to make of this. He's the face of the franchise but what experience does he have building the football ops?

He will need to surround himself with good football people.

[lazycro]

Pinball is mighty good at surrounding himself with people, he's been around this organization forever

[Will]

John Murphy was named VP of Player Personnel and I suspect will be doing most of the grunt work.

[Foxhound]

Isn't the GM position a demotion for Mike Clemons? He was the President of the Argos in 2001-02, CEO in 2007-08 and the Vice-Chairman from 2008 to the present. Or will he be keeping the Vice-Chairman position as well?

[Antwon]

With all the respect I have for Michael Clemons, I see this as another potential mistake.
Pinball works tirelessly on his foundations and public speaking, and as an ambassador for the Argos. Is he giving all this up to be a full time GM?
He has not been working in football management. What recruitment ties does he have? Salary cap management? Salary negotiations?
Perhaps VP of the team might have been a better position.
This team needs a strong GM with a strong management background.

My guess is bringing in John Murphy is the important part. Perhaps Pinball is more to bring some attention to the team with Murphy taking over GM in a year or two.

[1971GreyCup]

Wow, when Bill Manning asked “Pinball” why he hasn’t been seriously involved with the Argos since 2009, he replied “he wasn’t asked.”
Wow.
It’s not like it’s been smooth sailing for this franchise. A lost decade and so much work to be done.

[Mightygoose]

With all the respect I have for Michael Clemons, I see this as another potential mistake.
Pinball works tirelessly on his foundations and public speaking, and as an ambassador for the Argos. Is he giving all this up to be a full time GM?
He has not been working in football management. What recruitment ties does he have? Salary cap management? Salary negotiations?
Perhaps VP of the team might have been a better position.
This team needs a strong GM with a strong management background.

My guess is bringing in John Murphy is the important part. Perhaps Pinball is more to bring some attention to the team with Murphy taking over GM in a year or two.

After digesting this, this is my line of thinking too.

Having Pinball involved gives instant credibility within this marketplace but having John Murphy along his side gives him experience to lean on and there's credibility within the football circles based on Hufnagel's endorsement to Manning.

Pinball: Face of the front office and by extension the franchise.
Murphy: The nuts and bolts of the front office.

Perhaps having them both in the organization already they can get around the cap and if it works out have them both groomed for other positions down the road. Pinball: Full time president, Murphy: GM

I'm now actually interested in attending on Friday to see how the players (and on some level the coaches) respond.

[Shatto]

Serious error. He should have been made CEO not GM Still leaves us with a part time president.

[gilthethrill]

Serious error. He should have been made CEO not GM Still leaves us with a part time president.

I thought the same thing when he turned from player into HC. He will surround himself with credible people and the team will go in the right direction.

[Fumble1971]

First glimmer of hope this lost season. Onward!

[Neely2005]

John Murphy was named VP of Player Personnel and I suspect will be doing most of the grunt work.

I watched the Press Conference on TSN.ca and Pinball said that John Murphy would be the Player Hawk and would also be doing player contracts.

[Neely2005]

With all the respect I have for Michael Clemons, I see this as another potential mistake.
Pinball works tirelessly on his foundations and public speaking, and as an ambassador for the Argos. Is he giving all this up to be a full time GM?
He has not been working in football management. What recruitment ties does he have? Salary cap management? Salary negotiations?
Perhaps VP of the team might have been a better position.
This team needs a strong GM with a strong management background.

My guess is bringing in John Murphy is the important part. Perhaps Pinball is more to bring some attention to the team with Murphy taking over GM in a year or two.

Who cares about the Luxury Tax. MLSE should just be like the Yankees and pay the penalties. The rest of the country already hates Toronto. May as well go all in!

[argotom]

With all the respect I have for Michael Clemons, I see this as another potential mistake.
Pinball works tirelessly on his foundations and public speaking, and as an ambassador for the Argos. Is he giving all this up to be a full time GM?
He has not been working in football management. What recruitment ties does he have? Salary cap management? Salary negotiations?
Perhaps VP of the team might have been a better position.
This team needs a strong GM with a strong management background.

My guess is bringing in John Murphy is the important part. Perhaps Pinball is more to bring some attention to the team with Murphy taking over GM in a year or two.


I see it somewhat different.
Just saw the press conference.
Pinball will be the face or GM with the final decisions on player personnel with Murphy as the Assistant GM.
Murphy will be responsible for scouting and negotiating player salaries.
No question how Pinball will be active in the FA to include a new QB, as he will be able to sell the team.
How can you not want to play for him.

[argotom]

Who cares about the Luxury Tax. MLSE should just be like the Yankees and pay the penalties. The rest of the country already hates Toronto. May as well go all in!


Agreed 100%.
Who cares about the salary cap, the owners can afford the penalties.
There was even a suggestion by Manning how they are still looking for a new permanent practice facility for the team which as we know is long overdo.

[Jon Gonzo]

Pinner is smart enough to surround himself with good people, who inevitably want to work with him. He motivates them by being a good person and they do their thing fueled with positive vibes.

He's not failed and I am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth, and doubt him.

He'll get a good coach and a good QB and if there is one person, on the face of the earth, to right this ship....it is this man.

Very glad to see him back, full time.

[Topshelf]

Love Pinball.
But this really looks like a desperate PR play.
Done more for media and team visibility, than from an on field perspective.
That said, when Pinball was coach he knew to delegate, perhaps he will build a team of people who can handle all the football stuff, while he is moreso the face of franchise for media and fans.

[R.J]

With all the respect I have for Michael Clemons, I see this as another potential mistake.
Pinball works tirelessly on his foundations and public speaking, and as an ambassador for the Argos. Is he giving all this up to be a full time GM?
He has not been working in football management. What recruitment ties does he have? Salary cap management? Salary negotiations?
Perhaps VP of the team might have been a better position.
This team needs a strong GM with a strong management background.

My guess is bringing in John Murphy is the important part. Perhaps Pinball is more to bring some attention to the team with Murphy taking over GM in a year or two.
This is similar to my thinking as well, but one thing I will say about Pinner is he knows who and what to surround himself with. Time will tell I suppose, but I love that he made it clear that they need a QB... not a journeyman.

Side note: I love how Manning made it clear what his (Manning's) job is, and it's not roster management nor X's and o's.

[gilthethrill]

I wonder if Mike O'Shea could work with Pinball as Argo HC in 2020.

[Will]

I recall similar apprehension to when he was hired as head coach in 2000, and he ended up doing a solid job as head coach. Being a GM, however, does require a different skill-set and, as R.J points out, Pinball did surround himself with a solid support group when he was coach.

I do think some people are reading too much into the title here as his role will clearly not be what we traditionally define a GM's role to be.

The real question people should be asking themselves is whether or not they trust John Murphy.

[GregR]

Great news! Pinball will bring the team a lot more attention in the local media and brings credibility and great likeability. He will be a great recruiter. He loves the team. I happened to have an Argos t-shirt on by chance, when he dropped in on a friend's business a few months ago and he was so happy to see it. Gave me a big hug.

[Argo57]

Serious error. He should have been made CEO not GM Still leaves us with a part time president.

Manning is now surrounding himself with good people (Michael Clemons) who in turn will do the exact same thing (John Murphy) who together will collaborate and build a good football ops team and coaching staff so in my mind Manning has done his job.

[Rich]

I wonder if Mike O'Shea could work with Pinball as Argo HC in 2020.

Who couldn't work with Pinball? Their shared history makes it an absolute no-brainer.

[argonaut11xx]

Overdrive has GM Clemons in studio around 4:20ish,

TSN 1050

[paulwoods13]

Finally got here after being out all day, amazed (yet not terribly surprised, in truth) to see some fans calling this move a mistake.

When has Pinball ever failed at anything? IMO the GM role is a far better fit for him than the president role. And Murphy is a far better choice as personnel director than Tillman would have been. I think the much-maligned Manning has hit a home run here. I expect Pinball to bid farewell to Chamblin and the assistant coaches in four weeks.

[paulwoods13]

Agreed 100%.
Who cares about the salary cap, the owners can afford the penalties.

I am just about certain the Argos are going to do whatever it takes to get the coaching staff they want for next year, and will tell the CFL and the other clubs to blow it out their ear if someone bleats about the mgmt cap. MLSE is not going to play by any rule that damages its ability to succeed as a business, and being forced to keep Chamblin against their wishes would damage the company's ability to succeed as a business.

[gilthethrill]

I am just about certain the Argos are going to do whatever it takes to get the coaching staff they want for next year, and will tell the CFL and the other clubs to blow it out their ear if someone bleats about the mgmt cap. MLSE is not going to play by any rule that damages its ability to succeed as a business, and being forced to keep Chamblin against their wishes would damage the company's ability to succeed as a business.

Oh I hope you are right! Abolish the cap Randy!

[doubleblue]

I agree with all those who think this is a good hire. Pinball will not be your run of the mill typical GM. He laid it out what he does. Hire good people and let them do what their good at. I remember back when he was the Coach he had Stubler as his DC and GM Adam Rits as the OC. Both in their prime of coaching, but had also a veteran team. Back then the DB's weren't turned over every year or other positions either. How does this current defensive back field stack up against a veteran crew of back then. Cliff Ivory, Adrion Smith, Orlondo Steinauer, Chuck Winters, Wheaton, levingston and Hardy. No comparison IMO. Fletcher, O'Shea and Ebien at LB. Eric England, Jonathan Brown, Noah Cantor. Kevin Kinney and Wayne Weathers on the DL. That was one tough hard hitting defense, and the back bone of the team.
The offense still had Mike Jenkins, Mookie Mitchell, Damon Allen and a real LT in Bernard Williams.
Back then maybe the Canadian talent over all wasn't as good as the current bunch but the Imports on a whole were much stronger then this team. That has to be on Jim Popp. There are some good pieces in place on this team, but too many "B Team" type players as well as the coaches IMO. So I don't think it is any accident they are 2-12. I'm excited to watch and see who Pinball puts in place to turn this team around.

[Argo57]

Finally got here after being out all day, amazed (yet not terribly surprised, in truth) to see some fans calling this move a mistake.

When has Pinball ever failed at anything? IMO the GM role is a far better fit for him than the president role. And Murphy is a far better choice as personnel director than Tillman would have been. I think the much-maligned Manning has hit a home run here. I expect Pinball to bid farewell to Chamblin and the assistant coaches in four weeks.

Finally some optimism that this franchise can turn things around, I’ll be honest I didn’t see this coming but Manning did a great job in getting this done.
Pinball is a bright guy and will surround himself with good people to get the job done, when recruiting both college and CFL free agents I can’t think of a better person to represent the Toronto Argonauts.

[Neely2005]

Overdrive has GM Clemons in studio around 4:20ish,

TSN 1050


Pinball on TSN 1050:

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/overdrive-october-8-2019-hour-1-1.1378392

Around the 42 Minute Mark.

[Neely2005]

Pinball was on the FAN 590 @ 5:30 too. Hopefully they'll post the audio.

[1971GreyCup]

“Pinball” brings expertise, talent and 30 years experience to the job. He’s worked tirelessly for the CFLPA, Athletes in Action and the Argos Alumni.

Most importantly everything he touches is done with class. Note his responses to his thoughts on the players and coaches performances to date.

[Argo57]

Pinball on TSN 1050:

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/overdrive-october-8-2019-hour-1-1.1378392

Around the 42 Minute Mark.

Love his passion and emotion when talking about the Argonauts and their fans👍

[Neely2005]

Love his passion and emotion when talking about the Argonauts and their fans👍

Yeah he got choked to up there.

[Neely2005]

Simmons on Pinball:

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/simmons-doing-the-impossible-is-what-pinball-clemons-does-best/

[Jon Gonzo]

I agree with all those who think this is a good hire. Pinball will not be your run of the mill typical GM. He laid it out what he does. Hire good people and let them do what their good at. I remember back when he was the Coach he had Stubler as his DC and GM Adam Rits as the OC. Both in their prime of coaching, but had also a veteran team. Back then the DB's weren't turned over every year or other positions either. How does this current defensive back field stack up against a veteran crew of back then. Cliff Ivory, Adrion Smith, Orlondo Steinauer, Chuck Winters, Wheaton, levingston and Hardy. No comparison IMO. Fletcher, O'Shea and Ebien at LB. Eric England, Jonathan Brown, Noah Cantor. Kevin Kinney and Wayne Weathers on the DL. That was one tough hard hitting defense, and the back bone of the team.
The offense still had Mike Jenkins, Mookie Mitchell, Damon Allen and a real LT in Bernard Williams.
Back then maybe the Canadian talent over all wasn't as good as the current bunch but the Imports on a whole were much stronger then this team. That has to be on Jim Popp. There are some good pieces in place on this team, but too many "B Team" type players as well as the coaches IMO. So I don't think it is any accident they are 2-12. I'm excited to watch and see who Pinball puts in place to turn this team around.


Decent point. Canadian content is a strength on this team, but they'll have to fish or cut bait on a couple of the development project types. Potential Canadian future starters in 4-5 spots on the field. Lets go out and get a great LT in the off season and draft a raft of good, near ready to start OL. Ottawa seems to be able to do it almost every year. Hamilton too.

[jerrym]

My first reaction was does Pinball have the skill set for this? Then I remembered his performance as a HC. He let others do the X's and O's and motivated the team towards success. No doubt the task will be a challenge considering how far the Argos have degenerated but he is already generating more positive publicity than has occurred during the entire season. If he hires the right support team it could work out.

[argolio]

I had a few reservations when I first heard the newa, but it's Pinball. He's a football lifer, and may know more people in football than anyone in Canada or the U.S. He's smart, driven, passionate, and persuasive. The guy is a walking success story. There's a lot of work ahead. I wish him well.

Excellent Overdrive interview. I didn't know that he had a chance to go back to the NFL in the early 90s but chose to stay here.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Here is a headline from the Toronto Sun webpage:
Chamblin wants to be head coach of Argonauts and won't accept lesser role in 2020
I have to hand it to him, for a guy that just got smoked 55-8 and sports a 2-12 record he sure has balls. You tell 'em Corey!

[1971GreyCup]

“Pinball” brings expertise, talent and 30 years experience to the job. He’s worked tirelessly for the CFLPA, Athletes in Action and the Argos Alumni.

Most importantly everything he touches is done with class. Note his responses to his thoughts on the players and coaches performances to date.

I’d read that it’s 31 years. #31 is a big number for Argos fans and “Pinball”.

[Scooter McCray]

I have no doubt that the football team will become better and be a perennial top tier team in the decade ahead. Michael will build the front office and coaching staff to do so. It is up to Manning and MLSE to step up and be all in on the business side to fill the stadium and make the team relevant off the field again.

[Neely2005]

Pinball was on the FAN 590 @ 5:30 too. Hopefully they'll post the audio.

Here's the Audio:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime-time-sports/michael-pinball-clemons-didnt-want-job-will-anything-fix-organisation-loves/

[Neely2005]

Here is a headline from the Toronto Sun webpage:
Chamblin wants to be head coach of Argonauts and won't accept lesser role in 2020
I have to hand it to him, for a guy that just got smoked 55-8 and sports a 2-12 record he sure has balls. You tell 'em Corey!

Good, makes it easier to fire him.

[ArgoGabe22]

Good, makes it easier to fire him.

I can imagine how the end of season meeting will go. “Cory, you’re a great football coach, we love having you here but you’re not gonna be our football coach”. (Like John Avery’s Pinball impersonation when getting benched for Ricky Williams)

[Neely2005]

Naylor on Pinball:

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/naylor-argos-are-hoping-clemons-and-murphy-will-be-a-successful-one-two-punch~1799254

[ArgoGabe22]

Finally got here after being out all day, amazed (yet not terribly surprised, in truth) to see some fans calling this move a mistake.

When has Pinball ever failed at anything? IMO the GM role is a far better fit for him than the president role. And Murphy is a far better choice as personnel director than Tillman would have been. I think the much-maligned Manning has hit a home run here. I expect Pinball to bid farewell to Chamblin and the assistant coaches in four weeks.

What I find strange is that there was skepticism on whether Pinball could still coach, when suggested as a possible HC candidate in the past. And the biggest criticism was that he’s not an X’s and O’s guy and the assistants were more of the coach than he was. And the same could be said here, he’s not a full-time scout with deep ties in the States like Chris Jones, but this time isn’t met with the same level of skepticism, even though Pinball admits that his plan to hire the smartest people and allow them to do their job. I’m not saying it’s a bad idea but noticed the tune has changed, when he’s essentially doing the same thing as he did as a coach. It could be said it worked, most consecutive .500+ seasons as HC but I thought there was more of a negative reaction when some wanted him to become the HC again

[doubleblue]

I can imagine how the end of season meeting will go. “Cory, you’re a great football coach, we love having you here but you’re not gonna be our football coach”. (Like John Avery’s Pinball impersonation when getting benched for Ricky Williams)

I have never heard John Avery's impersonation of his conversation with Pinball about Ricky Williams, but I believe I witnessed it. The Argos were holding a training camp practice in Oshawa and I noticed Pinball and Avery off to one side holding what appeared to be a sincere mostly one side conversation. Pinball was doing most of the talking and John not looking very happy. I was thinking maybe he was being cut or something. Of course what I didn't know then is that the Argos had signed Ricky Williams, as that news came out later in the day.

[ArgoGabe22]

I have never heard John Avery's impersonation of his conversation with Pinball about Ricky Williams

https://youtu.be/qxuJxlX3pqc?t=1556

[GregR]

I listened to the Pinball interviews. He is the greatest! I have had the honour of meeting him several times through a non-football connection and he is the most genuine person I know.

[RB957]

Finally got here after being out all day, amazed (yet not terribly surprised, in truth) to see some fans calling this move a mistake.

When has Pinball ever failed at anything? IMO the GM role is a far better fit for him than the president role. And Murphy is a far better choice as personnel director than Tillman would have been. I think the much-maligned Manning has hit a home run here. I expect Pinball to bid farewell to Chamblin and the assistant coaches in four weeks.

I agree with this 100%. John Murphy has a solid pedigree in this league, and we should be able to hit the ground running in terms of recruitment, scouting and retention of players. And who better than Pinball to be the face of the organization to the public?

[RB957]

Here is a headline from the Toronto Sun webpage:
Chamblin wants to be head coach of Argonauts and won't accept lesser role in 2020
I have to hand it to him, for a guy that just got smoked 55-8 and sports a 2-12 record he sure has balls. You tell 'em Corey!


Good, makes it easier to fire him.

When you take into consideration his last HC gig, he's 2 - 21. I don't think that what he will or won't accept will factor much into any decision-making, and I agree with others that management salary cap will simply be ignored or overlooked by the league.

[CBlake]

This says it all, his passion for life and more importantly going to the wall for others with a helping hand each step of the way. It really is the best path taken for the Argos at this time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zfNwTeP0qk

[Jon Gonzo]

Corey Chamblin will not have the hammer in any series of negotiations. In fact there may be none.

[Stevoman]

Pinball is someone that I know will do a good job at whatever he commits himself to and there is no one else that I trust more to be in charge of the franchise.

[1971GreyCup]

The future of the Argos and the CFL will depend on attracting CFL players like “Pinball” and John Hufnagel. Outstanding athletes that were willing to commit to the CFL and to Canada.

I think many elite athletes are sold on the idea that the CFL will extend their opportunity to make it in the NFL. They accept smaller CFL contracts in hope of hitting the NFL jackpot! There was a time when these types of players were released from the CFL contracts to pursue the NFL and then would return to different CFL teams for better money. This is frustrating for CFL fans.

Move to longer contracts, better initial pay. Attract the Bill Symons-type player, who made the Green Bay Packers team, but for circumstances beyond his control, was replaced by a younger version. A good CFL contract kept him in the league and he became a fan favourite. Ultimately he moved to Canada full time.

[Argocister]

Mmmm I believe that Pinball will surround himself with persons that will get things done .... but I do think he took this job to save the Argos from a Manning alternative decision that would have been disastrous for the Argos . Just the first thoughts that came to mind when watching the press conference.

But saying that ... I am glad that he did and I am sure it is a big step in the right direction.

[paulwoods13]

I do think he took this job to save the Argos from a Manning alternative decision that would have been disastrous for the Argos .

So Manning was going to hire someone else, and Pinball stepped in and said, "hire me instead," and Manning then fell into line? Or Pinball said No to a job offer, then changed his mind when Manning told him about his alternative plan? Either notion seems pretty far-fetched from where I sit. Isn't it possible that Manning simply recognized what an under-used asset Pinball was and could be to the organization, and pressed him hard to take the job?