2019-2020 Offseason Signings, Trades, Releases, Extensions and Other Transactions

[jerrym]

The Argos have signed former Buffalo Bill RB Karlos Williams, as well as Canadians OL Eric Starczala and DB Troy Hansen. They also granted James Wilder Jr. his release.



Williams, 26, was originally drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the fifth round (155thoverall) of the 2015 NFL Draft. The 6’1, 225-pound tailback rushed 93 times for 517 yards (5.6 yards/attempt) and seven touchdowns, while adding two more scores through the air in 11 games that year. The Davenport, Florida native tied an NFL record during that same season recording a touchdown in six consecutive games to start his career. Williams then spent portions of 2016 and 2017 with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

The former Florida State Seminole spent four years (2011-2014) at the Tallahassee school, where as a freshman and sophomore he played safety, making 39 tackles and one interception in 25 games. After making the transition to running back one game into his junior season, Williams rushed for 1,419 yards and 22 touchdowns over 26 games during his final two years at FSU. Williams helped the ‘Noles win the BCS National Championship in 2014.

Starczala, 23, was drafted by the Argos in the seventh round of the 2019 CFL Draft but chose to return to the University of Guelph for his final year of USPORTS eligibility. The 6’5, 315-pound offensive lineman from Cambridge, ON helped the Gryphons get to the OUA semi-finals this season, a year after getting to the Yates Cup in 2018.

Hansen, 24, played at the University of Alberta where he tallied 23.5 tackles and one forced fumble in eight regular season games in 2019, helping the Golden Bears get to the Canada West semi-finals. The 6’4 defensive back previously played for the CJFL’s Edmonton Huskies and signed a letter of intent with the University of North Dakota in 2015.
https://www.argonauts.ca/2019/11/25/argos-signs-american-rb-karlos-williams-two-canadians/

[gilthethrill]

This Williams kid interests me. Very big at 6'1 230 lbs. Has success in NFL until he got into substance issues. Did some further reading into it and it appears he now has his head on straight.

[doubleblue]

That's what I like. Big running backs. Was the starting free safety until his junior year so he might get a look at the OLB as well. He would have been a team mate of James Wilder at Florida State. Same time frame.

[Shatto]

Big, fast, runs with upright stance like Wilder but a more explosive runner than Wilder. If he has his head on straight and he comes with right attitude he could be an excellent replacement for Wilder. Some of his videos shows him catching the ball really well. Anyone have any info on what is happening with Bishop Sankey?

[doubleblue]

Former Miami Hurricanes running back Trayone Gray is the big, strong and eyebrow-raising fast Carol City graduate who measured 6-1 1/2 and 233 pounds last month at UM’s Pro Day and then ran an unofficial 4.37 seconds in the 40-yard dash. That speed will help him get an NFL shot with the Cleveland Browns, who agreed to a contract with Gray on Saturday night.

Another big RB Trayone Gray is showing on the CFL transactions as signing with the Argos. Good to see the new regime agrees with my idea that big running backs are the way to go.
Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/college/acc/university-of-miami/article229689479.html#storylink=cpy

[doubleblue]

Intriguing small college (Pace College) DE Prince Unaegbu signs with the Argos according to his twitter. Played TE until his Senior year. After watching his high lights a former Argo great Ed Harrington comes to mind as a comparison.

John Murphy is beating the bushes to find some gems, hopefully.

[ArgoZ]

This Williams kid interests me. Very big at 6'1 230 lbs. Has success in NFL until he got into substance issues. Did some further reading into it and it appears he now has his head on straight.

While I don’t remember any of Wilder on the Bills, it’s easy to recall Williams. Had a great rookie season. Really fast for a big guy. Similar upright style, but didn’t look or run like Wilder at all. Hits the gaps hard and fast. Unfortunately showed up to camp the next season overweight and couldn’t even make the team. Got heavy into the weed too. Became another 1 year wonder and threw his whole career away. It will be interesting to see what kind of shape and attitude he shows in Argos camp. Maybe he’s Pinball’s rehab project.

[jerrym]

Argos have signed DB Travis Lee and RB Trayone Gray.

Lee played six games in the CFL with Hamilton in 2016, making 24 DTs. In 2019 he played for Baltimore in the Arena Football League.

Gray was an undrafted free agent who signed with the Cleveland Browns who played in four preseasons games.

[jerrym]

WR/KR Chris Worthy has agreed to a three year extension with the Argos. His receiving improved this year. He also adds some versatility in his skills to the roster.

[gilthethrill]

Argos have signed DB Travis Lee and RB Trayone Gray.

Lee played six games in the CFL with Hamilton in 2016, making 24 DTs. In 2019 he played for Baltimore in the Arena Football League.

Gray was an undrafted free agent who signed with the Cleveland Browns who played in four preseasons games.

Gray it should be noted weighs 240lbs....and can run. Argo front office is working hard at bringing in young prospects with speed.

[OV Argo]

Bear Woods signs an extension ? - love to see him bounce back and be an impact starting MLB; not sure about that though, but let him compete; i have high hopes for Kwemo as a future Argo starting MLB.

[Argo57]

Bear Woods signs an extension ? - love to see him bounce back and be an impact starting MLB; not sure about that though, but let him compete; i have high hopes for Kwemo as a future Argo starting MLB.

No risk on this one OV, let him compete and see what happens in camp.
Provides good veteran leadership.

[OV Argo]

No risk on this one OV, let him compete and see what happens in camp.
Provides good veteran leadership.

Yep - lots of TC competition is good - vets and young guys.

Like to Starczala, Simba and Campbell in good TC competition for a starting OT job - the first 2 there have very good potential IMO - a real smart O-line coach would be nice.

[paulwoods13]

Yep - lots of TC competition is good - vets and young guys.

Like to Starczala, Simba and Campbell in good TC competition for a starting OT job - the first 2 there have very good potential IMO - a real smart O-line coach would be nice.

IMO RT is already Campbell's spot to lose (and I don't expect him to lose it) -- assuming he re-signs. Simba has tons of potential and I could see him starting at one of the guard spots next season. I expect we will see an INT at LT (hopefully a better one than any we've had since 2012).

[Argo57]

IMO RT is already Campbell's spot to lose (and I don't expect him to lose it) -- assuming he re-signs. Simba has tons of potential and I could see him starting at one of the guard spots next season. I expect we will see an INT at LT (hopefully a better one than any we've had since 2012).

And hopefully the first overall pick from last years draft works on his conditioning to become a factor in camp next year.

[OV Argo]

And hopefully the first overall pick from last years draft works on his conditioning to become a factor in camp next year.


Yeah - him too; a bunch of massive, natural OT types to look at; the possibility of 2 NI starters at OT is there. but would be kinda CFL GOB mind-boggling ( though the Als sure made out OK there for a while with Bourke & Perrett). Rather see them draft a natural, accomplished guard type to compete at OG rather than forcing an OT to the position for the sake of it; wonder what is up with former BC first round pick Charles Vaillancourt - with the excellent OG resume ? - injured and damaged goods maybe ? - but if not, some CFL team should be taking a look at that potential - but maybe he got somehow CFL written-off or else has no more desire to play ?

[jerrym]

The Argos have signed WR Nyqwan Murray. He attended Seattle Seahawks TC but was released in September. On NFL.com he scored a 5.00 which translate as 50-50 to make a NFL roster. His strengths and weaknesses are described below. Maturity is a problem listed here and another site.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/nyqwan-murray?id=32194d55-5256-3541-f9f0-85333f87c531

[doubleblue]

The Argos have signed WR Nyqwan Murray. He attended Seattle Seahawks TC but was released in September. On NFL.com he scored a 5.00 which translate as 50-50 to make a NFL roster. His strengths and weaknesses are described below. Maturity is a problem listed here and another site.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/nyqwan-murray?id=32194d55-5256-3541-f9f0-85333f87c531

So many good football players out there.

[Argofan_1000]

rumor is FA Zach Collaros will be signed by the Argos. Anyone know anything? Got to spend on the OL that's for sure

[jerrym]

David Morassutti says the Argos are looking at signing a core of players around which to build, citing Bear and Worthy as examples. While I would agree that Chris Worthy has improved this year, I do not see him as a core player. Bear is certainly a core player in terms of his ability and leadership skills, but there remain concerns about his availability to play on a regular game-to-game basis because of the wear and tear on his body. I agree with his assessment that Chapdelaine is not the answer at OC.



Not too long after the CFL released their free-agent list the Argos started to make some moves announcing that they signed both Chandler Worthy (https://www.argonauts.ca/2019/12/02/argos-bring-back-wr-chandler-worthy/) and Bear Woods (https://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/argonauts-re-sign-woods-stampeders-ink-2019-draft-pick/) to multi-year deals. What these deals signify is that management is identifying a group of players they want to proceed with as a part of their core.

Woods has been seen as a valuable member of the defence not only for his contributions on the field but the leadership he provides in the locker room which the players enjoyed having when he was signed late in July.
“When you see Bear Woods you see leadership personified,” general manager Michael Clemons told Mike Hogan of Argonauts.ca (https://www.argonauts.ca/2019/12/04/hogan-bear-back-2/). “Not only is he a grappler on the field, he is a guy that the young guys can come to and ask questions. He leads by example. He does everything you want a player to do. The only thing I wish Bear could do was have a twin, ‘cause I’d sign him too (laughs).”


It is rare to see Toronto give both Woods and Worthy more than a year considering the team hasn’t shown a large investment in players the past few seasons. Pinball made it clear when he became GM that he wanted to make sure players were around longer than one or two years. ...

While this might be just the start of what management is trying to accomplish this off-season, there is still a lot of work to be done especially on the offensive side of the ball.

A report on Friday from TSN’s Farhan Lalji (https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN/status/1202995122625040385) suggested that the Argos were not going to bring back offensive coordinator Jacques Chapdelaine which shouldn’t be a massive surprise considering how much the offence struggled this season. You wonder if the team is going to prioritize getting a new coordinator in place before they make some bigger decisions like who they want to target at the quarterback position in free agency.
https://tipofthetower.com/2019/12/06/toronto-argonauts-establishing-core-signing-bear-woods-chandler-worthy/

[gilthethrill]

David Morassutti says the Argos are looking at signing a core of players around which to build, citing Bear and Worthy as examples. While I would agree that Chris Worthy has improved this year, I do not see him as a core player. Bear is certainly a core player in terms of his ability and leadership skills, but there remain concerns about his availability to play on a regular game-to-game basis because of the wear and tear on his body. I agree with his assessment that Chapdelaine is not the answer at OC.

https://tipofthetower.com/2019/12/06/toronto-argonauts-establishing-core-signing-bear-woods-chandler-worthy/

I think Chandler Worthy could become the next Ken Joiner.

[Will]

I think Chandler Worthy could become the next Ken Joiner.

I hope not, considering Joiner suffered a season ending injury and was never seen again.

[Argo57]

I like the Worthy signing, he looks like a good playmaker.

[jerrym]

The Argos have resigned DT Jhaustin Thomas, LS Joe Spaziani. They also signed QB/Wr Joel Blumenthal, who attended the Kansas City Chiefs mini-camp but did not make the team.



Blumenthal (6'1/200) recorded the fastest 40-yard dash at the esteemed pro day with a 4.50. Hundreds of scouts were there to watch Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray sling the ball, but naturally people also noticed Blumenthal who "caught the ball pretty good and ran really good, and he was a well-developed guy, not a little bitty, thin guy" according to Brandt. Blumenthal had an injury-riddled career where he transferred three times and changed position from quarterback to wide receiver. He is an extremely raw talent and likely won't be selected in the NFL Draft but does have a chance to get some looks in training camp.
https://www.rotoworld.com/college-football/nfl-draft/player/51381/joel-blumenthal

[paulwoods13]

IMO Thomas has tons of potential -- very glad we re-signed him.

[AngeloV]

IMO Thomas has tons of potential -- very glad we re-signed him.

Agreed. I was very impressed with him in limited time last year.

[gilthethrill]

IMO Thomas has tons of potential -- very glad we re-signed him.

A giant of a man....would be nice to have Coleman and Lainge join him in the interior.

[Jon Gonzo]

Those 3 would make a fine rotation. My hopes exactly, but I would like them to pick up an End

[Jon Gonzo]

Those 3 would make a fine rotation. My hopes exactly, but I would like them to pick up an End

....and not Shawn Lemon (again) thanks

[AngeloV]

....and not Shawn Lemon (again) thanks

Agreed. I want them to get a bigger, more explosive end, dare I say, a Victor Butler type (easier said than done, for sure).

[doubleblue]

....and not Shawn Lemon (again) thanks

Shawn Lemon seems to be a very tradeable commodity. We have got two players for him now.

[gilthethrill]

Agreed. I want them to get a bigger, more explosive end, dare I say, a Victor Butler type (easier said than done, for sure).

Kennan Gilchrist appeared to be settling into that role as the season went on.

[AngeloV]

Kennan Gilchrist appeared to be settling into that role as the season went on.

Agreed, but he's more the speed rush end type. They need a bigger guy on the other side to compliment him.

[Jon Gonzo]

Agreed, but he's more the speed rush end type. They need a bigger guy on the other side to compliment him.

I am thinking a Willie Jefferson, Okpalaugo type. Lots of passes blocked, lots of height to plague opposing QB's.

See how many times the Argos were effected by just that this past season.

[jerrym]

American OL Roubbens Joseph has signed an extension with the Argos. The 6ft 4in OL played in three games for the Argos in 2019, after playing for the University of Buffalo and spending time with the Ravens, Dolphins and Redskins.

[jerrym]

The Argos have signed seven players and released two. Two Canadian DBs with CFL experience have been added to the roster: Dondre Wright and Abu Conteh. Five Americans have also been signed: DL Earl Okine, DB Malik Reaves, WR Kwadarrius Smith, DB Ermon Lane and Wr Dres Anderson. Okine also has CFL experience, and had five sacks in eight AAF games, so he looks promising. Smith is a speedster, something the Argos need, who had the best average per catch in the MAC and was ninth in the US in 2017. Overall, they show some promise and add depth to the TC roster.

Released are American DB Anthony Covington who had 37 DTs in 11 games for the Argos in 2019 and Canadian DB Troy Hansen who the Argos signed last month.



Wright, 25, played three games for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers in 2019, making one special teams tackle. The Ajax, Ontario native spent 2017 and 2018 with the Montreal Alouettes, where in 27 games the 5’10, 210-pound DB made 45 defensive tackles, 14 special teams tackles and one forced fumble. Wright was drafted by Montreal in the third round of the 2017 CFL Draft after spending two seasons at Henderson State, a NCAA Division II school in Arkansas.

Conteh, 24, played five games for the Calgary Stampeders in 2019 after playing 14 games for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers in 2017 and 2018. The native of Sierra Leone was drafted by the Bombers with the 23rd overall pick in the 2017 CFL Draft. The 6’1, 202-pound defensive back began his collegiate career at North Dakota State College (2013-2014) before finishing at Grambling State University (2015-2016).

Okine, 29, played six games for Saskatchewan in 2019 after joining the team in July and tallied three defensive tackles. Before coming to the ‘Riders, the Florida native played for the Orlando Apollos of the Alliance of American Football where he recorded 17 tackles, five sacks and one interception in eight games. The 6’7, 290-pound DL also spent time with the Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, Kansas City Chiefs, Indianapolis Colts, Brooklyn Bolts (Fall Experimental League), Orlando Predators (Arena Football League), Calgary Stampeders and Houston Texans between 2013 and 2018.

Reaves, 23, most recently spent parts of the 2018 offseason with the NFL’s Kansas City Chiefs and Pittsburgh Steelers after being signed by KC in May. The 6’0”, 200-pound DB was a four-year player at Villanova University (2014-2017) where he racked up 178 tackles, four interceptions and two forced fumbles in 43 career games. The Panama City, Florida native earned second-team All-CAA honours after his sophomore and senior seasons.

Smith, 24, spent four seasons at the University of Akron (2015-2018) after transferring from Missouri. The 5’9, 170-pound speedster finished his career with 73 receptions for 1,411 yards and 11 touchdowns in 29 games for the Zips. The Orlando, Florida native had the best average yards per catch (21.4) in the MAC and 9th in the nation as a junior in 2017. Smith was named to the Biletnikoff Award (Nation’s top receiver) preseason watch list for his senior season. A three-year track star while at Akron, Smith ran a 10.29 second 100 meter at the MAC championships garnering second-team All-MAC honours.

Lane, 25, played on both sides of the ball over his four years at Florida State University (2014-2017). Recruited as a WR, Lane caught 19 balls for 307 yards and one touchdown over his first two seasons in Tallahassee. The 6’3, 209-pound athlete switched to DB during his sophomore season and ended up starting five games and finishing with 49 tackles and one interception. Lane started his senior season on defense adding 12 tackles before switching back to receiver halfway through the year and added 169 yards on eight receptions. A four-year player at the University of Utah, Anderson hauled in 134 passes for 2,077 yards and 17 touchdowns in his 43-game college career.

Anderson, 27, last played for the Salt Lake Stallions of the AAF before the league suspended operations in April. Previously the 6’1, 185-pound receiver played two preseason games for the Dallas Cowboys in 2018 catching six passes for 65 yards. The California native got in seven more preseason games between 2016-2017 with the Houston Texans and San Francisco 49ers adding 12 receptions for 176 yards and one touchdown. Anderson also spent time with the Indianapolis Colts and Chicago Bears practice squads in that time.
https://www.argonauts.ca/2019/12/16/argos-add-two-canadians-five-americans/

[jerrym]

WR Josh (Flash) Gordon, a player on the Argos negotiation list, has been suspended by the NFL for using performance-enhancing drugs and substances of abuse. He had 805 yard in his rookie 2012 season, and led the NFL in receiving with1,646 yards, as well gaining more than 700 yards two other years. Considering his drug problems, he may have burnt through his NFL salary and looks to the CFL in the future. But do the Argos want him?



The Seattle Seahawks claimed Gordon off waivers on November 1 after he was waived by the New England Patriots. Gordon caught six passes for 81 yards in four games playing with Russell Wilson. ...

The Saskatchewan Roughriders removed Gordon’s CFL rights from their neg list in December 2018 after adding the 28-year-old when he was dropped by the Calgary Stampeders. For nearly four Gordon was Stamps’ property. That initial addition by Calgary occurred when Gordon was suspended by the NFL for a positive marijuana test. Faced with the prospect of missing a full year on the football field in 2014, Gordon considered playing the remainder of the CFL schedule, although that would have required obtaining his release from the Cleveland Browns at the time. But the fact that Gordon wanted to play pro football in Canada stands out: he’s aware of the league, respects the high calibre of talent and saw it as a legitimate way to extend his playing career. ...

Marijuana issues have stunted his NFL career much as they did while at Baylor University where Gordon was suspended twice by the NCAA. ...

As a rookie, he produced 805 yards and five touchdowns on 50 catches. In June 2013, the NFL handed down a two-game suspension for a positive marijuana test. Gordon returned to the field for 14 games putting together a remarkable 1,646 receiving yards – leading the NFL – and nine touchdowns on 87 receptions.
After multiple suspensions kept Gordon away from the field, it appeared he was finally past four years of transgressions and ready to return for Cleveland full-time. But various factors played into the Browns trading him to the Patriots in September 2018. ...


Gordon played in 17 games catching 60 passes for 1,007 yards and four touchdowns. New England placed Gordon on injured reserve on October 23 and when healthy released the talented but troubled pass catcher.
He has played 63 career NFL games making 247 receptions for 4,252 yards and 20 touchdowns while averaging 17.2 yards per catch. Through parts of six seasons in the NFL, Gordon has made over $5.3 million. ...

Argos general manager Michael Pinball Clemons and vice president player personnel John Murphy made the move to put Gordon on the double blue’s neg list. Toronto is hoping Gordon might consider playing in the CFL if NFL opportunities subside due to the his fifth suspension in eight years.
https://3downnation.com/2019/12/16/argos-neg-list-receiver-josh-gordon-suspended-indefinitely-by-the-nfl/

[1971GreyCup]

It was nice to see former Argos and RB Dionte Spencer not only make the Denver Broncos, but named an alternate to this years Pro Bowl.

[jerrym]

The Argos have signed two more Americans: DL Ryan Davis and WR Isaac Zico.

Davis, who is 30, spent seven years in the NFL totalling 14 sacks and 44 DTs in 63 games.

Zico was an undrafted attendee at Arizona Cardinals TC where he caught four passes in four games. In his senior year at Purdue he had 743 receiving yards and a 16.2 yards per catch average.

[ArgoZ]

Nice to see the team (Murphy) so active in December, months away from the season. At this rate, there will have to be cuts before camp even opens!

[doubleblue]

WR Josh (Flash) Gordon, a player on the Argos negotiation list, has been suspended by the NFL for using performance-enhancing drugs and substances of abuse. He had 805 yard in his rookie 2012 season, and led the NFL in receiving with1,646 yards, as well gaining more than 700 yards two other years. Considering his drug problems, he may have burnt through his NFL salary and looks to the CFL in the future. But do the Argos want him?

https://3downnation.com/2019/12/16/argos-neg-list-receiver-josh-gordon-suspended-indefinitely-by-the-nfl/

After the Ricky Williams experiment, didn't the League put in place a rule that the CFL wouldn't sign players suspended by the NFL. Has that been quietly revoked?

[gilthethrill]

The Argos have signed two more Americans: DL Ryan Davis and WR Isaac Zico.

Davis, who is 30, spent seven years in the NFL totalling 14 sacks and 44 DTs in 63 games.

Zico was an undrafted attendee at Arizona Cardinals TC where he caught four passes in four games. In his senior year at Purdue he had 743 receiving yards and a 16.2 yards per catch average.

Ryan Davis could be a potential DE similar to Victor "Don't Hold Me Hostage" Butler. Looks like a definite NFL politics cut with 63 career games played.

[OV Argo]

Ryan Davis could be a potential DE similar to Victor "Don't Hold Me Hostage" Butler. Looks like a definite NFL politics cut with 63 career games played.

Yeah- let's hope so - Butler was very good for most of his Argo time.

Davis is only 30 but has plenty of NFL experience - hope he has his head on straight and really wants to play for the Argos and in the CFL.

[GregR]

Davis was with the Cowboys for a little while and looked good in limited time there.

[jerrym]

One player I would like to see the Argos pursue is Canadian RB Johnny Augustine. He looked damn good picking up 98 yards and 75 yards in the two games that he replaced Andrew Harris during his drug suspension. Augustine also has a 6.5 yards per carry average. I can't see him wanting to stay in Winnipeg playing behind Harris, especially when they have another Canadian, Nic Demski who can play RB. Signing Augustine would likely not involve a high salary as he is still not an established starter. However, LaPolice in Ottawa may pursue him as he knows how talented he is from Winnipeg, plus he has another Canadian RB in former Argo Brendan Gillanders, who could spell him off and who started the last three games of the season. Another team with a Canadian RB who spell off Augustine is Calgary who had Ante Milanovic-Litre, who also started three of the last four games of the season, so they might be interested in him. Hamilton, on the other hand, already has two good Canadian RBs in Maleek Irons and Sean Thomas Erlington, plus Anthony Coombs, so I doubt if Augustine would want to go there, even if the team were interested. Whether the Argos would pursue him is another question.

[Argo57]

I agree Jerry, Augustine did a nice job last season when Harris was out of the lineup.
Keep in mind Augustine had a much superior line blocking for him that he may in Toronto (hopefully this is addressed this off season).

[AngeloV]

I agree Jerry, Augustine did a nice job last season when Harris was out of the lineup.
Keep in mind Augustine had a much superior line blocking for him that he may in Toronto (hopefully this is addressed this off season).

Or he might become the next Kienan Lafrance (who had a great playoff in 2016) and never measure up to expectations following a very small sample size.

[Argo57]

Or he might become the next Kienan Lafrance (who had a great playoff in 2016) and never measure up to expectations following a very small sample size.

Quite possible as well.

[AngeloV]

Quite possible as well.

Having said that, he did an admirable job filling in for a steroid cheat that should be a Russian Olympian. Yes, I'm bored at work today.
:D

[Argo57]

Having said that, he did an admirable job filling in for a steroid cheat that should be a Russian Olympian. Yes, I'm bored at work today.
:D

LOL.
I would take a shot at signing him, Argos aren’t very strong or deep at RB.

[AngeloV]

LOL.
I would take a shot at signing him, Argos aren’t very strong or deep at RB.

Well, not at Canadian RB's, but they have Burks and Oulette from last year, and Bishop Sankey and Karlos Williams. That's a lot of competition already.

[Argo57]

Well, not at Canadian RB's, but they have Burks and Oulette from last year, and Bishop Sankey and Karlos Williams. That's a lot of competition already.

I like Burks, Ouellette...meh, Williams and Sankey training camp competition.

[AngeloV]

I like Burks, Ouellette...meh, Williams and Sankey training camp competition.

I think Williams has the most potential of all of them.

[OV Argo]

One player I would like to see the Argos pursue is Canadian RB Johnny Augustine. He looked damn good picking up 98 yards and 75 yards in the two games that he replaced Andrew Harris during his drug suspension. Augustine also has a 6.5 yards per carry average. I can't see him wanting to stay in Winnipeg playing behind Harris, especially when they have another Canadian, Nic Demski who can play RB. Signing Augustine would likely not involve a high salary as he is still not an established starter. However, LaPolice in Ottawa may pursue him as he knows how talented he is from Winnipeg, plus he has another Canadian RB in former Argo Brendan Gillanders, who could spell him off and who started the last three games of the season. Another team with a Canadian RB who spell off Augustine is Calgary who had Ante Milanovic-Litre, who also started three of the last four games of the season, so they might be interested in him. Hamilton, on the other hand, already has two good Canadian RBs in Maleek Irons and Sean Thomas Erlington, plus Anthony Coombs, so I doubt if Augustine would want to go there, even if the team were interested. Whether the Argos would pursue him is another question.


Augustine has RE-SIGNED (;o)) with the Bombers - and good for him sticking with a GC Champ team and the club that gave him a shot to play in the pros (CFL undrafted); he will still be behind Harris (and perhaps last year's draft pick B. Oliveira - who was injured after playing some early last year); that plus. as you mention, Demski can take carries at tailback and produce.

Imagine - a CFL team going 4 deep at tailback and all Canadians - and the won the GC doing so ??? = WTF - some GOB heads must have exploded somewhere ;o)

[jerrym]

Augustine has RE-SIGNED (;o)) with the Bombers - and good for him sticking with a GC Champ team and the club that gave him a shot to play in the pros (CFL undrafted); he will still be behind Harris (and perhaps last year's draft pick B. Oliveira - who was injured after playing some early last year); that plus. as you mention, Demski can take carries at tailback and produce.

Imagine - a CFL team going 4 deep at tailback and all Canadians - and the won the GC doing so ??? = WTF - some GOB heads must have exploded somewhere ;o)

Yes they just announced it today. It still isn't on CFL Free Agent Tracker on 3downnation.

[Argo57]

Keep the signings coming, Murphy and the gang working hard to upgrade the Argos talent level in some definite areas of need.👍
https://www.argonauts.ca/2019/12/30/argos-sign-four-americans/

[jerrym]

Derek Walker has worked out with the Dallas Cowboys. If he signs and sticks with a NFL team, the Argos will need another deep threat.

[paulwoods13]

Masoli re-signing (ahem) in Hamilton takes a big name out of the pending FA QB market. Arbuckle, Nichols, Collaros, Streveler and MBT are available at the moment along with Franklin, Prukop and (I assume) Jennings. Three teams (Wpg, Tor and Ott) need a starter and backup, and at least three other teams (BC, Edm and Sask, likely also Calgary) are likely looking for a backup. I'd still like to end up with Collaros and MBT, but could live with Arbuckle instead of either guy. Would hate to lose Prukop but I don't think I'd be comfortable with him as the No. 2, and we need to continue developing O'Connor.

[Argo57]

Masoli re-signing (ahem) in Hamilton takes a big name out of the pending FA QB market. Arbuckle, Nichols, Collaros, Streveler and MBT are available at the moment along with Franklin, Prukop and (I assume) Jennings. Three teams (Wpg, Tor and Ott) need a starter and backup, and at least three other teams (BC, Edm and Sask, likely also Calgary) are likely looking for a backup. I'd still like to end up with Collaros and MBT, but could live with Arbuckle instead of either guy. Would hate to lose Prukop but I don't think I'd be comfortable with him as the No. 2, and we need to continue developing O'Connor.

I figured Masoli would re-sign with Hamilton, it has been reported that he may start the season on the 6 game.
If Arbuckle is the guy Toronto wants heading into 2020 they must also be target a more established QB as their other option.

[Argo57]

Derek Walker has worked out with the Dallas Cowboys. If he signs and sticks with a NFL team, the Argos will need another deep threat.

Walker is a game breaker but I don’t see him returning to Toronto (especially at $275,000).

[Treblecharger1]

Some of our new recruits played in the United Bowl of the IFL last year.. Sheppard looks https://youtu.be/TnaNpiHlDBs

[doubleblue]

Some of our new recruits played in the United Bowl of the IFL last year.. Sheppard looks https://youtu.be/TnaNpiHlDBs

Looks like Murph signed all the outstanding players from this game. Talent is talent no matter where they come from. I like the size of these guys too.

[Jon Gonzo]

In the CFL having a great bird-dog is essential.

Jim Popp was one of those guys, at one time, but I sensed that he was getting lazier or more out of touch. If you're not in it, you lose touch with it instantaneously...I am quite certain.

To get someone young and hungry, like Murph-Dog, can only help. Both Jim Barker and Jim Popp were very good recruiters at one time, but really didn't replace themselves when they became fat cats. And then, just like that, they are out of touch.

For the past several seasons, when the Argos recruited well, they usually developed good/great players for other teams. But more than not, they have not recruited well...and I now expect that to change with the arrival of John Murphy.

[Argo57]

In the CFL having a great bird-dog is essential.

Jim Popp was one of those guys, at one time, but I sensed that he was getting lazier or more out of touch. If you're not in it, you lose touch with it instantaneously...I am quite certain.

To get someone young and hungry, like Murph-Dog, can only help. Both Jim Barker and Jim Popp were very good recruiters at one time, but really didn't replace themselves when they became fat cats. And then, just like that, they are out of touch.

For the past several seasons, when the Argos recruited well, they usually developed good/great players for other teams. But more than not, they have not recruited well...and I now expect that to change with the arrival of John Murphy.

Things do in fact get stale over a period of time, glad the Argos have moved on with a new vision.
Player personnel and the coaching staff need to be on the same page which seems to have been a major issue in the last couple of seasons.

[jerrym]

The Argos have added two more Americans to their roster: DL Ronald Ollie and LB Jason Beck.



Ollie, 23, was signed by the Oakland Raiders in May of 2019 and spent time in training camp with the NFL club. The Mississippi native spent two seasons at Nicholls State (2016, 2018) where he tallied 74 tackles, 20 tackles for loss, seven sacks and two fumble recoveries in 22 games for the Colonels. The 6’2, 292-pound lineman started his collegiate career at East Mississippi Community College (2014-2015) where he was named All-State Second Team Defense in 2015. Ollie was one of the stars of the hit Netflix reality show ‘Last Chance U’ during its first season.

Beck, 6’1 and 220-pounds, played four seasons at the University of Eastern Michigan (2014-2017) where he racked up 353 tackles, 10.5 tackles for loss, three interceptions and one fumble recovery in 49 career games. The Indianapolis native played the most games in school history and his tackles total was seventh best all-time for the Eagles.
https://www.argonauts.ca/2020/01/06/argos-add-ronald-ollie-jason-beck/

[paulwoods13]

Interesting that Dinwidddie likes O'Connor and MBT, makes no mention of Prukop. Looking more and more like Collaros and MBT, IMO.

https://www.cfl.ca/2020/01/07/argos-qb-situation-still-air-heading-free-agency/?fbclid=IwAR0oUTE7kKjRJjBqkM9NO8zUB4DgE3ecPOItMPLq q-lza4HAiJTMtpWzGnI

[OV Argo]

Interesting that Dinwidddie likes O'Connor and MBT, makes no mention of Prukop. Looking more and more like Collaros and MBT, IMO.

https://www.cfl.ca/2020/01/07/argos-qb-situation-still-air-heading-free-agency/?fbclid=IwAR0oUTE7kKjRJjBqkM9NO8zUB4DgE3ecPOItMPLq q-lza4HAiJTMtpWzGnI


Be interesting to see if the Argos (and other CFL teams) will dress 3 QBs for next season with the roster rule change there ? Interesting to see that recent NFL play-off game where the Eagles starter got knocked out of the game early and then their 40 some year old back-up played and got hit hard a few times and was limping late in the game - WTF would any pro football team with huge rosters dress only 2 QBs ??? - the 2 QBs get knocked out of the game and you are basically done with whoever else on the roster having to go under C? - IMO - inexcusable for any reg season game (they're all important in a season where one game can decide your play-off chances, let alone a big play-off game).


IF the Argos go out and get Collaros as starter - MBT as #2 and then who as #3 (even as PR QB)? Probably little chance another CFL team would try to poach O'Connor off the PR?

[paulwoods13]

O'Connor was never on the practice roster in 2019, when the Argos carried four and sometimes five QBs. Why on earth would he be placed on the PR in 2020 when the team may have only three QBs? Oh yeah, I know why.

[OV Argo]

O'Connor was never on the practice roster in 2019, when the Argos carried four and sometimes five QBs. Why on earth would he be placed on the PR in 2020 when the team may have only three QBs? Oh yeah, I know why.


So, say the Argos go out and get Collaros, and like MBT as #2, then you think O'Connor would be #3, and also that they will dress 3 QBs ?

And if not dressed, O'Connor could be stashed on the IR ? Prukop will just be let go and not valued for playing some STs like last season ?

[Argo57]

So, say the Argos go out and get Collaros, and like MBT as #2, then you think O'Connor would be #3, and also that they will dress 3 QBs ?

And if not dressed, O'Connor could be stashed on the IR ? Prukop will just be let go and not valued for playing some STs like last season ?

Prukop’s versatility should draw interest from a few teams.

[paulwoods13]

So, say the Argos go out and get Collaros, and like MBT as #2, then you think O'Connor would be #3, and also that they will dress 3 QBs ?

And if not dressed, O'Connor could be stashed on the IR ? Prukop will just be let go and not valued for playing some STs like last season ?

Yes, if not dressed, O'Connor will be stashed in the IR -- just as he was this year when he was not on the 46. As I said, he was never on the PR in 2019 even though the Argos had four and at times five QBs. So again, why would he be on PR when they will probably have three QBs? Don't bother answering -- it's a rhetorical question.

[OV Argo]

Yes, if not dressed, O'Connor will be stashed in the IR -- just as he was this year when he was not on the 46. As I said, he was never on the PR in 2019 even though the Argos had four and at times five QBs. So again, why would he be on PR when they will probably have three QBs? Don't bother answering -- it's a rhetorical question.

Is the PR not a possibility for any player who they like to have on the roster, but are not willing or ready to have on the game roster ?

[jerrym]

Some of our new recruits played in the United Bowl of the IFL last year.. Sheppard looks https://youtu.be/TnaNpiHlDBs


Here's the profile of another player that the Argos signed last week on Jan. 2 who played in the IFL's United Bowl: WR Kent Shelby.



Shelby, 24, was a member of the 2019 Indoor Football League champion Sioux Falls Storm, where he racked up 518 receiving yards and 11 touchdowns in 11 games last season. The New Orleans native was signed as an undrafted free agent by the Los Angeles Chargers following his college career in 2018 and attended rookie mini-camp with the NFL club. The 6’3, 208-pound WR left McNeese State, where he played from 2014-2017, as one of the most prolific pass catchers in team history after finishing his career with 129 receptions, 1,910 receiving yards and 14 touchdowns, good for fourth, fifth and sixth all-time in team history respectively.
https://www.argonauts.ca/2020/01/02/argos-sign-american-wr-kent-shelby/

[jerrym]

CFL.ca has a long article on DL Ronald Ollie, who had his moment of fame on in Last Chance U Netflix documentary, who the Argos just signed.

https://www.cfl.ca/2020/01/08/ollie-everybody-looks-like-tv-star-im-football-player/

[paulwoods13]

More positive comments from RD re MBT.

https://www.tsn.ca/new-toronto-argonauts-coach-ryan-dinwiddie-likes-what-he-sees-on-tape-from-mcleod-bethel-thompson-1.1424312

[AngeloV]

More positive comments from RD re MBT.

https://www.tsn.ca/new-toronto-argonauts-coach-ryan-dinwiddie-likes-what-he-sees-on-tape-from-mcleod-bethel-thompson-1.1424312

Only a moron can't see that there were way more positives than negatives with MBT last year. He grew as much or more than any QB not named Vernon Adams in 2019, and was a better QB than the highly sought after Mike Reilly too.

[Jon Gonzo]

I would be quite optimistic about a MBT - Collaros/or Arbuckle combination, but I don't see coming in with the same thing as last year is a wise idea either on a football ops level or a marketing level.

However, if you give me the aforementioned combo, then a return to the Playoffs is once again a possibility.

The challenge is to have both players open to a 1A/ 1B scenario, and bottom line that means open to....less money.

Dinwiddie and Pinball have both made it clear that the QB position is of optimum importance. Expect the Argos to chase this issue down hard, and that includes insuring that there are contingencies covered.

[paulwoods13]

I would be quite optimistic about a MBT - Collaros/or Arbuckle combination, but I don't see coming in with the same thing as last year is a wise idea either on a football ops level or a marketing level.

However, if you give me the aforementioned combo, then a return to the Playoffs is once again a possibility.

The challenge is to have both players open to a 1A/ 1B scenario, and bottom line that means open to....less money.

Dinwiddie and Pinball have both made it clear that the QB position is of optimum importance. Expect the Argos to chase this issue down hard, and that includes insuring that there are contingencies covered.

I agree they will push hard on this. I see no way we go into this year with the same thing as last year because that would mean Franklin. He has to be finished here.

I've been calling for months to have MBT and Collaros as 1 and 2, altho Collaros might have made it hard to pay him like a (well-paid) 2 with his play down the stretch. I believe both guys can be fit under the salary structure and there will obviously be room for MOC as well. I'm inclined to think we won't see Prukop back, despite his tantalizing brief glimpse at the end of the season, given that RD did not mention him yesterday. I would think we'll have a fourth QB -- an up-and-comer who can be stashed on PR (IR if absolutely necessary) to go along with two experienced guys and with MOC waiting his turn for another year, now up a notch at No. 3.

[gilthethrill]

I would be quite optimistic about a MBT - Collaros/or Arbuckle combination, but I don't see coming in with the same thing as last year is a wise idea either on a football ops level or a marketing level.

However, if you give me the aforementioned combo, then a return to the Playoffs is once again a possibility.

The challenge is to have both players open to a 1A/ 1B scenario, and bottom line that means open to....less money.

Dinwiddie and Pinball have both made it clear that the QB position is of optimum importance. Expect the Argos to chase this issue down hard, and that includes insuring that there are contingencies covered.

Argo Neg List QB'S in the XFL include Conner Cook and Luis Perez. They could join the team after their season concludes.

[AngeloV]

Argo Neg List QB'S in the XFL include Conner Cook and Luis Perez. They could join the team after their season concludes.

So by March?

:D

[gilthethrill]

So by March?

:D

Going by the official XFL schedule, regular season ends on April 31st, followed by 2 weeks of post season action. Oh...now I get it. You don't think Spring Football can work in the U.S.

[Rich]

I've been calling for months to have MBT and Collaros as 1 and 2, altho Collaros might have made it hard to pay him like a (well-paid) 2 with his play down the stretch.

In what bizarro universe would MBT be ranked ahead of Collaros on any team's 2020 depth chart?

Collaros is a 10-year vet who has played in two Cups and who last season played very effectively in four high-pressure elimination games, even though he had only played a series or two of football in the previous 12 months. Collaros does everything better than MBT. He is much more mobile in the pocket and can better avoid sacks. He throws a much better and more accurate ball than MBT, both short and long. And he is full of the savvy and intangibles that MBT sadly lacks. Why on earth would anyone rank MBT ahead of him?

[doubleblue]

In what bizarro universe would MBT be ranked ahead of Collaros on any team's 2020 depth chart?

Collaros is a 10-year vet who has played in two Cups and who last season played very effectively in four high-pressure elimination games, even though he had only played a series or two of football in the previous 12 months. Collaros does everything better than MBT. He is much more mobile in the pocket and can better avoid sacks. He throws a much better and more accurate ball than MBT, both short and long. And he is full of the savvy and intangibles that MBT sadly lacks. Why on earth would anyone rank MBT ahead of him?



Couldn't have said it better myself.:D

[OV Argo]

Ditto

[paulwoods13]

Hey, I like Collaros too, and I hope we get him. But MBT has a better overall body of work over the past two years, and has stayed healthy despite taking a ton of heavy hits. Zach (an eight-year vet, by the way) was fantastic in 2013-15, ran into injury problems, was terrible in 2017, was mediocre in 2018 and caught lightning in a bottle for four weeks after another season of injury in 2019. I'm not prepared to anoint him as deserving to be the highest-paid QB on the team based on what amounts to four good weeks in the past three seasons. And as I said, I like and want him. I hope he comes in and competes for the starting position, may the best man win. But he'd have to earn his position on the depth chart if it were up to me and I had MBT to compete with him.

[Argo57]

Hey, I like Collaros too, and I hope we get him. But MBT has a better overall body of work over the past two years, and has stayed healthy despite taking a ton of heavy hits. Zach (an eight-year vet, by the way) was fantastic in 2013-15, ran into injury problems, was terrible in 2017, was mediocre in 2018 and caught lightning in a bottle for four weeks after another season of injury in 2019. I'm not prepared to anoint him as deserving to be the highest-paid QB on the team based on what amounts to four good weeks in the past three seasons. And as I said, I like and want him. I hope he comes in and competes for the starting position, may the best man win. But he'd have to earn his position on the depth chart if it were up to me and I had MBT to compete with him.

Collaros and MBT would be fine by me at this point.
Let’s keep in mind other teams will be aggressively looking for QB’s in free agency with Toronto and Winnipeg actually needing to sign a couple of them so nothing is guaranteed at this point.

[OV Argo]

Arbuckle ended up starting for the Stumps in just his 2nd season there, after only a bit of playing time in his rookie season. Guess he didn't need years to "develop" and thus become a highly sought after CFL FA ?

[Shatto]

There is no doubt that MBT has impressed us, with his toughness, determination and leadership. He has also proved himself to be a rugged competitor in spite playing on a very weak team. However, Collaros has proved himself to be a winner. His skills and talents, when healthy, are as good as any QB in the league.

Personally, I would prefer Collaros with his potential as a winner to be our starter, with MBT with his mental and physical toughness as his backup. But, that is a subjective viewpoint and it will be Argos management that will make the decision. But---after the last two disastrous seasons, they better get it right.

[Rich]

I'm not prepared to anoint him as deserving to be the highest-paid QB on the team based on what amounts to four good weeks in the past three seasons.

Four good weeks in a row! How many times has MBT done that in the past three seasons?

But it wasn't just any four weeks. It was the four biggest games of his team's season. When he was a bit rusty and not in game-speed shape. When he had all of two weeks to learn the team's offence. The guy comes in and delivers four savvy, efficient performances to win em all. I don't know about you but I was surprised as hell to see it.

When we picked up Collaros from Sask the big question was: could he ever again even come close to his top form? I think he answered that question emphatically. If he was able to play so well under such difficult circumstances, imagine how he'll look after a full camp running an offence designed for him by our QB guru head coach.

And honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if his best days were still ahead of him. Surprised yes, but you never know. I think spending last year on the sidelines did him a lot of good. He's in great physical shape, and I even think he throws a little harder and better than he did before. He's in the prime of career and he's got something to prove. I say anoint.

[1971GreyCup]

I take it as a positive the the Arbuckle trade wasn’t Followed by an immediate signing. The closer we get to FA window the better....

[paulwoods13]

Four good weeks in a row! How many times has MBT done that in the past three seasons?

But it wasn't just any four weeks. It was the four biggest games of his team's season. When he was a bit rusty and not in game-speed shape. When he had all of two weeks to learn the team's offence. The guy comes in and delivers four savvy, efficient performances to win em all. I don't know about you but I was surprised as hell to see it.

When we picked up Collaros from Sask the big question was: could he ever again even come close to his top form? I think he answered that question emphatically. If he was able to play so well under such difficult circumstances, imagine how he'll look after a full camp running an offence designed for him by our QB guru head coach.

And honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if his best days were still ahead of him. Surprised yes, but you never know. I think spending last year on the sidelines did him a lot of good. He's in great physical shape, and I even think he throws a little harder and better than he did before. He's in the prime of career and he's got something to prove. I say anoint.

Without looking back at the season just past, I seem to recall that MBT had a stretch of four or five good to excellent games in a row around mid-season, FWIW. It's also worth noting that Collaros's play down the stretch was helped a lot by having an excellent running game and a backup QB who could go in and pound defences for a while.

Hats off to Collaros for how well he did -- I was not at all surprised because he just seems like one of those guys who has an "it" quality about him, and obviously he was well rested. And I agree he might actually have his best days ahead of him. I hope he does. But betting on that -- if it means giving him big dollars and letting the only proven QB we have on the current roster walk -- would be a far bigger gamble than I'd be prepared to make if I were the GM.

[paulwoods13]

I take it as a positive the the Arbuckle trade wasn’t Followed by an immediate signing. The closer we get to FA window the better....

According to LaPolice, Arbuckle is going to be in Ottawa next week to check out the facility. I fully expect they will sign him. You don't make trades like this one unless you are prepared to spend big to complete the deal. LaPo's reputation as an offensive whiz, and Desjardins telling him they will be big spenders in free agency, will be more than enough to overcome any leanings Arbuckle might have had to hitch his wagon to Dinwiddie, IMO.

[Jon Gonzo]

For those of you who haven't watched "Last Chance U" on Netflix, I am here to tell you that we'll be getting quite the character in Toronto with Ronald Ollie for the D.Line.

The Argos gave him a 3 year deal, which tells me they have high hopes for this kid.

Like many of the kids who come out of American Community College Football programs, Ollie had a tough upbringing. He grew up in a trailer park in the pine belt of Mississippi and lost both his parents to a murder-suicide that happened when he was 5.

The show is a few years old now, so hopefully he's matured a little since then. He wasn't a good student but certainly is a very likable lad. I am envisioning he and Donald Destoyer doing some entertaining YouTube in TC.

He has typical CFL DT size and is always around the ball. He makes plays. Hopefully he shows up in good shape and brings some dawg to this D.Line in T.O. We need some Belli.

[AngeloV]

In what bizarro universe would MBT be ranked ahead of Collaros on any team's 2020 depth chart?

Collaros is a 10-year vet who has played in two Cups and who last season played very effectively in four high-pressure elimination games, even though he had only played a series or two of football in the previous 12 months. Collaros does everything better than MBT. He is much more mobile in the pocket and can better avoid sacks. He throws a much better and more accurate ball than MBT, both short and long. And he is full of the savvy and intangibles that MBT sadly lacks. Why on earth would anyone rank MBT ahead of him?

To be fair, Collaros also had the benefit of having a great o-line in front of him and a great running game (of which he was not even on the field for a majority of it). I love Collaros, and would love to see him back, but the comparison is not a fair one as you are judging the results he had with a great team vs the results MBT had with a bad team. MBT was by far the best QB on his team, while I'm not so sure Collaros was any better than Nichols on Winnipeg.

[doubleblue]

I take it as a positive the the Arbuckle trade wasn’t Followed by an immediate signing. The closer we get to FA window the better....

I saw something a few days ago, maybe it was from Naylor, that Calgary offered the same deal Ottawa got to the Argos first and were turned down.
Makes me think that it is quite possible Argos have an unwritten agreement with Collaros that he comes back to Toronto in February. Collaros was able to make those game winning passes for Winnipeg because he could scramble. The Argo offense would have looked a lot different last year if they had had a scrambling QB.
But maybe both sides of this debate will be happy and Collaros and MBT will be the two QB's on the roster on opening day.

I think Arbuckle will sign with Ottawa. Nichols and Streveler returns with Winnipeg. Franklin signs on with BC to back up Riley. Prukop maybe signs with Edmonton or Saskatchewan. Good QB's are hard to find right now with the XFL coming on board and the NFL having around a 100 on their rosters. Kind of silly IMO for the CFL to cut back to two at this time. Can't be a dollar savings as teams will have to 1 game the third guy at full salary. Argos were able to give Prukop and O'Conner valuable playing time experience last year having them both on the game day roster. The young QB's have to get game experience to develop. But Randy has a solution we're told. They're going to send them to Mexico and Europe to play. But they will only 5th stringers or guys that are not good enough for the CFL in the first place. IMO

[paulwoods13]

Kind of silly IMO for the CFL to cut back to two at this time. Can't be a dollar savings as teams will have to 1 game the third guy at full salary.

It occurs to me that the solution to this would be to modify the CBA (which would require reopening negots, so it probably won't happen) to include a clause that if the 46th man on the roster is a QB, he can be dressed for the game. The roster is 46 but the game roster is 45, so someone always gets paid to sit out, aside from guys who are injured or "injured." I've long been an advocate for smaller rosters, but the train left the station years ago. I also liked having two inactive players because it gave coaches some flexibility right up to game time. But one inactive seems semi-pointless, and I can't see any good reason to bury a third QB in street clothes as no. 46 on a roster of 45. You're gonna pay him, give him a shot at some playing time and experience, even if it's just as a holder and maybe occasional short-yardage guy.

[gilthethrill]

To be fair, Collaros also had the benefit of having a great o-line in front of him and a great running game (of which he was not even on the field for a majority of it). I love Collaros, and would love to see him back, but the comparison is not a fair one as you are judging the results he had with a great team vs the results MBT had with a bad team. MBT was by far the best QB on his team, while I'm not so sure Collaros was any better than Nichols on Winnipeg.

When John Murhpy appeared on the Rod Pedersen show just after the trade to Winnipeg, he made it clear that if ZC would have played this year with the Argos , it would not have been a fair evaluation.

[paulwoods13]

To be fair, Collaros also had the benefit of having a great o-line in front of him and a great running game (of which he was not even on the field for a majority of it). I love Collaros, and would love to see him back, but the comparison is not a fair one as you are judging the results he had with a great team vs the results MBT had with a bad team. MBT was by far the best QB on his team, while I'm not so sure Collaros was any better than Nichols on Winnipeg.

I have just one disagreement with this. I don't think the Bombers were a "great" team -- I think they were a good team with smart coaches who developed very clever game plans, and smart players who executed those plans well, when it mattered. Even if they remain largely intact (albeit without LaPo), I don't think they will be that hard for opponents to match up with in 2020. Even the Argos could get to that level if mgmt. and coaches do things right this year.

[doubleblue]

To be fair, Collaros also had the benefit of having a great o-line in front of him and a great running game (of which he was not even on the field for a majority of it). I love Collaros, and would love to see him back, but the comparison is not a fair one as you are judging the results he had with a great team vs the results MBT had with a bad team. MBT was by far the best QB on his team, while I'm not so sure Collaros was any better than Nichols on Winnipeg.

All true but Collaros was running for his life when he made a couple of those big time TD passes with Winnipeg.

[Stevoman]

Looks like Darby has re-signed (according to his Instagram). He's one that I thought was needed to be re-signed so I'm happy about this.

[doubleblue]

Looks like Darby has re-signed (according to his Instagram). He's one that I thought was needed to be re-signed so I'm happy about this.

Darby wasn't on the free agent list I saw but either way he is a keeper IMO.

[Will]

Darby wasn't on the free agent list I saw but either way he is a keeper IMO.

Probably extended then

[Jon Gonzo]

Looks like Darby has re-signed (according to his Instagram). He's one that I thought was needed to be re-signed so I'm happy about this.

Speaking of Instagram, it appears that Shaq Richardson is likely coming back also

[argolio]

Richardson looked solid late last year. Would like to see what he can do over a full season.

[AngeloV]

Speaking of Instagram, it appears that Shaq Richardson is likely coming back also

That makes me happy. Hopefully Mincy too.

[AngeloV]

I have just one disagreement with this. I don't think the Bombers were a "great" team --.

What was their record in games NOT started by Chris Streveler? Including post season, 11-2. They were 7-2 with Matt Nichols as the starter and 4-0 with ZC. I think they were bordering on great at the very least.

[OV Argo]

Richardson looked solid late last year. Would like to see what he can do over a full season.

Richardson is a player IMO - was very good in his Stamps days.

Argos actually have a plethora of D-backfield talent with CFL experience and some proven play - Richardson, Darby, Mincy, Q Ford, a vet safety in Gabriel and youngsters like Woodson & Washington; they will bring in some new young guys too (plus like to see them draft a safety out of a few good prospects up this draft). A smart DC should be able to mold a good D-backfield out of that crop - like to see some continuity too instead of all the jerking around Chamblin did = figure out who is best suited for corners, D-half and safety and get them playing together, with faith in back-ups to come in and play their position.

[gilthethrill]

Richardson is a player IMO - was very good in his Stamps days.

Argos actually have a plethora of D-backfield talent with CFL experience and some proven play - Richardson, Darby, Mincy, Q Ford, a vet safety in Gabriel and youngsters like Woodson & Washington; they will bring in some new young guys too (plus like to see them draft a safety out of a few good prospects up this draft). A smart DC should be able to mold a good D-backfield out of that crop - like to see some continuity too instead of all the jerking around Chamblin did = figure out who is best suited for corners, D-half and safety and get them playing together, with faith in back-ups to come in and play their position.

Argos DB coach Tyrone Brackenridge was a guest on the Rod Pedersen show recently. When asked what position Alden Darby is best at, he replied Safety, but with all the injuries, Darby was plugged in elsewhere, but still maintained a high level of play IMO.

[Argo57]

Argos DB coach Tyrone Brackenridge was a guest on the Rod Pedersen show recently. When asked what position Alden Darby is best at, he replied Safety, but with all the injuries, Darby was plugged in elsewhere, but still maintained a high level of play IMO.

I would agree, Darby was noticeably better at safety.
Good to see him back.

[Argo57]

Richardson is a player IMO - was very good in his Stamps days.

Argos actually have a plethora of D-backfield talent with CFL experience and some proven play - Richardson, Darby, Mincy, Q Ford, a vet safety in Gabriel and youngsters like Woodson & Washington; they will bring in some new young guys too (plus like to see them draft a safety out of a few good prospects up this draft). A smart DC should be able to mold a good D-backfield out of that crop - like to see some continuity too instead of all the jerking around Chamblin did = figure out who is best suited for corners, D-half and safety and get them playing together, with faith in back-ups to come in and play their position.

Agree OV, never understood the musical chair approach Chamblin employed at times last season.

[paulwoods13]

Agree OV, never understood the musical chair approach Chamblin employed at times last season.

To be fair to him, he also employed that strategy in 2017 and it was very effective. That year it seemed as if every LB and DB (except Woods, who pretty much stayed in the middle) could play anywhere back there and excel. Didn't work in 2019, tho.

[Argo57]

To be fair to him, he also employed that strategy in 2017 and it was very effective. That year it seemed as if every LB and DB (except Woods, who pretty much stayed in the middle) could play anywhere back there and excel. Didn't work in 2019, tho.

Thats a fair point Paul, the 2017 team had more talent on D IMO and a much more experienced defensive backfield which could execute this scheme, last season not so much.

[paulwoods13]

More here on how mgmt. views the QBs. Clearly Franklin is done. Fortunately (IMO, at least) MBT is still under consideration.

https://www.cfl.ca/2020/01/12/oleary-dinwiddie-argos-taking-stock-qbs-already-house/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[OV Argo]

More here on how mgmt. views the QBs. Clearly Franklin is done. Fortunately (IMO, at least) MBT is still under consideration.

https://www.cfl.ca/2020/01/12/oleary-dinwiddie-argos-taking-stock-qbs-already-house/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

No mention of Prukop either? - interesting.

Wonder where Franklin will end up? I wouldn't write the guy off as a potential good CFL QB just yet (but he was quite disappointing with the Argos). The Stumps, BC, Winnipeg could all be interested ?

["Issues"Mcgee]

We need a QB bad. I'm not sure why so many people have faith in MBT as the number 1. MBT has started quite a bit and we haven't had much success.

[gilthethrill]

We need a QB bad. I'm not sure why so many people have faith in MBT as the number 1. MBT has started quite a bit and we haven't had much success.

From what I've read most people want MBT to return as #2.

[paulwoods13]

We need a QB bad. I'm not sure why so many people have faith in MBT as the number 1. MBT has started quite a bit and we haven't had much success.

This argument seems to flare up pretty often, but here goes again. MBT was just about the least of our problems in 2019. Do you think we would have had a significantly better record if we had a more "successful" QB (let's say Reilly or Bo) but the same personnel, scheme and co-ordinator? I don't.

Yes, QBs are extremely important. But team records are based on a lot more factors than the QB.

[gilthethrill]

This argument seems to flare up pretty often, but here goes again. MBT was just about the least of our problems in 2019. Do you think we would have had a significantly better record if we had a more "successful" QB (let's say Reilly or Bo) but the same personnel, scheme and co-ordinator? I don't.

Yes, QBs are extremely important. But team records are based on a lot more factors than the QB.

Coach Dinwiddie has eluded that the qb can't be in the same place each play because the opposition will know where he will be each time he throws. MBT needed a run game in addition to a less predictable passing game.

[AngeloV]

We need a QB bad. I'm not sure why so many people have faith in MBT as the number 1. MBT has started quite a bit and we haven't had much success.

Over 2 years he has started as many games as Reilly did last year and was better than Reilly. So I guess BC also needs a QB badly.

[OV Argo]

Over 2 years he has started as many games as Reilly did last year and was better than Reilly. So I guess BC also needs a QB badly.

I guess you wouldn't trade MBT for Reilly then ? MBT is as good or better, right ?

[AngeloV]

I guess you wouldn't trade MBT for Reilly then ? MBT is as good or better, right ?

Never said that. I just said MBT was better last year than Reilly was, and truthfully it wasn’t close.

[OV Argo]

Never said that. I just said MBT was better last year than Reilly was, and truthfully it wasn’t close.

Reilly did not have even close to a good year last season - playing in a real dumb offence, with a bad O-line (till they fixed it somewhat late) and with nowhere near the receiver talent that the Argos had (though Burnham is league best IMO and Durant is good too).

Career resume wise - the comparison is laughable - Reilly has been a league best QB talent; MBT is more like a half-decent journeyman.

[jerrym]

Speaking of Instagram, it appears that Shaq Richardson is likely coming back also

It's official. The Argos have brought Richardson on a two year extension. I was really impressed by him last year.

They also signed another DB through 2021, Jeff Richards, who played 6 games for the Los Angeles Chargers with 5 DTs in 2018 after also bouncing around the NFL with Tampa Bay and Carolina. In addition he has CFL experience, playing 13 games for Ottawa in 2015-16.

https://www.argonauts.ca/2020/01/13/shaq-back-argos-sign-db-richards/

[Rich]

This argument seems to flare up pretty often, but here goes again. MBT was just about the least of our problems in 2019. Do you think we would have had a significantly better record if we had a more "successful" QB (let's say Reilly or Bo) but the same personnel, scheme and co-ordinator? I don't.


I do. I think if we had the quality of QBing that Collaros gave Winnipeg, for a full 18 games, we would have gone at least 9-9.

We would have had fewer sacks, we would have found a way to use Walker better, we would have connected on more long balls, and the whole team would have had the swagger and confidence that it lacked. That's at least five wins right there IMO.

And hey Paul, isn't a QB who has the "it" factor by definition better than and preferable to a QB who doesn't have "it"?

[Jon Gonzo]

I do. I think if we had the quality of QBing that Collaros gave Winnipeg, for a full 18 games, we would have gone at least 9-9.

We would have had fewer sacks, we would have found a way to use Walker better, we would have connected on more long balls, and the whole team would have had the swagger and confidence that it lacked. That's at least five wins right there IMO.

And hey Paul, isn't a QB who has the "it" factor by definition better than and preferable to a QB who doesn't have "it"?

Hard to disagree with this premise. Winning and losing comes down to only a handful of plays and the Argos lost by so little, so many times. This is why if MBT is coming back, I feel it needs to be only as a 1-B or and #2. In other words, don't overpay him. I agree with assertion that he's got some holes in his game, the sample size was good enough and these holes re-appeared on numerous occasions, but to his credit he often makes up for it with moxie, verve and gusto.

I think if Pinball, Murph and Coach handle the QB situation right, get McEwen and Laing re-signed and make a couple of upgrades on both sides of the ball, I feel this team CAN go .500 this season and once again contend for a playoff position.

MBT as a #1 starter, to me, is a fail both on a football ops and a marketing level.

Toronto doesn't have any grace left in these two vital areas.

[Tobin Rote]

It's official. The Argos have brought Richardson on a two year extension. I was really impressed by him last year.

They also signed another DB through 2021, Jeff Richards, who played 6 games for the Los Angeles Chargers with 5 DTs in 2018 after also bouncing around the NFL with Tampa Bay and Carolina. In addition he has CFL experience, playing 13 games for Ottawa in 2015-16.

https://www.argonauts.ca/2020/01/13/shaq-back-argos-sign-db-richards/

I'm sensing real signs of life down at Argonaut headquarters. Many of the offseason signings so far have pretty impressive resumes... and quite a few of them have CFL success in their backgrounds.

[Tobin Rote]

Hard to disagree with this premise. Winning and losing comes down to only a handful of plays and the Argos lost by so little, so many times. This is why if MBT is coming back, I feel it needs to be only as a 1-B or and #2. In other words, don't overpay him. I agree with assertion that he's got some holes in his game, the sample size was good enough and these holes re-appeared on numerous occasions, but to his credit he often makes up for it with moxie, verve and gusto.

I think if Pinball, Murph and Coach handle the QB situation right, get McEwen and Laing re-signed and make a couple of upgrades on both sides of the ball, I feel this team CAN go .500 this season and once again contend for a playoff position.

MBT as a #1 starter, to me, is a fail both on a football ops and a marketing level.

Toronto doesn't have any grace left in these two vital areas.

So very true! I'm kinda hoping that there might be a veteran (NFL... or XFL) on their Negotiation List... or a graduating college player... that could be added into the mix as well. I've nothing personal against MBT... and I feel as though he did fairly well under terrible circumstances last season... but they have to upgrade the talent in their QB room. You can't do that very often by standing pat.

[doubleblue]

So very true! I'm kinda hoping that there might be a veteran (NFL... or XFL) on their Negotiation List... or a graduating college player... that could be added into the mix as well. I've nothing personal against MBT... and I feel as though he did fairly well under terrible circumstances last season... but they have to upgrade the talent in their QB room. You can't do that very often by standing pat.

A guy that has popped up two years in a row on the Argo neg list is Connor Cook 6'4 217 out of Michigan State. 5 years out of College now and has been in four different NFL camps and now playing for June Jones in the XFL. Had a great College career but something missing in his game apparently for the NFL. I saw a NFL scouting report on him a year ago or so but can't find it right now, but it wasn't to flattering. It might have been his accuracy which is a bigger deal in the NFL because of the tight windows. Not to say he can't be a good QB in the CFL given time. He was timed at 4.79 in the forty, so he can use his legs when necessary. That would be a plus.
But the Argos need a veteran QB now. Too me it all points to Collaros with the way things are playing out now. Masoli re-signs in Hamilton, Arbuckle will very likely be in Ottawa and I can't see Winnipeg moving on from Nichols to gamble on Collaros and giving up a 1st round pick to do so. (Smart trade there by Pinball IMO) So I have to think the Argos want Collaros and he wants to play in Toronto. That will also mean they will probably retain MBT as a safety valve until O'Connor or someone else is ready.

[paulwoods13]

A guy that has popped up two years in a row on the Argo neg list is Connor Cook 6'4 217 out of Michigan State. 5 years out of College now and has been in four different NFL camps and now playing for June Jones in the XFL. Had a great College career but something missing in his game apparently for the NFL. I saw a NFL scouting report on him a year ago or so but can't find it right now, but it wasn't to flattering. It might have been his accuracy which is a bigger deal in the NFL because of the tight windows. Not to say he can't be a good QB in the CFL given time. He was timed at 4.79 in the forty, so he can use his legs when necessary. That would be a plus.
But the Argos need a veteran QB now. Too me it all points to Collaros with the way things are playing out now. Masoli re-signs in Hamilton, Arbuckle will very likely be in Ottawa and I can't see Winnipeg moving on from Nichols to gamble on Collaros and giving up a 1st round pick to do so. (Smart trade there by Pinball IMO) So I have to think the Argos want Collaros and he wants to play in Toronto. That will also mean they will probably retain MBT as a safety valve until O'Connor or someone else is ready.

I agree that is likely. To me the question is will it be an open competition, or will ZC be handed the starting job? If it's not gonna be legitimately open, if I were MBT I'd be looking elsewhere. Which would leave us (assuming we get only ZC) one hit away from O'Connor's baptism of fire. Not a place I'd want to be for at least one more year.


As for Cook or other guys who have kicked around the NFL for a few years, isn't that what MBT was three years ago? An NFL journeyman who ultimately was never gonna make it down there and finally came to Canada. At least now he has played in this league, in our rules. I'd rate him far ahead of Cook or anyone else of that ilk until someone proves me wrong.

[paulwoods13]

. . . if MBT is coming back, I feel it needs to be only as a 1-B or and #2. In other words, don't overpay him.

Nor should Collaros be overpaid. He has played half a dozen good games (most shared with a second QB who was a true change of pace for defences) in three years, basically. Still might have "it," but his health issues can't be overlooked, especially because concussions are likely more dangerous than anything Ricky Ray went through when some people were calling him injury-prone.

[paulwoods13]

And hey Paul, isn't a QB who has the "it" factor by definition better than and preferable to a QB who doesn't have "it"?

Only if the "it" factor is the only, or the definitively most important, factor. I think there's a lot more to QB evaluation than that. "It" is definitely important, but it's not essential. Trevor Harris does not have "it," IMO, and some people think he's the best QB in the CFL. As to whether or not MBT has "it," I think jury is still out on that but I'm leaning (no surprise) to Yes.

[Argo57]

So very true! I'm kinda hoping that there might be a veteran (NFL... or XFL) on their Negotiation List... or a graduating college player... that could be added into the mix as well. I've nothing personal against MBT... and I feel as though he did fairly well under terrible circumstances last season... but they have to upgrade the talent in their QB room. You can't do that very often by standing pat.

There will be stiff competition to sign any of the available QB’s as Toronto and Winnipeg both need to sign 2 of them, having said that I hope the Argos upgrade their overall QB depth and talent which in my books still leaves MBT in the mix.
You said it yourself “I feel as though he did fairly well under terrible circumstances last season”, I would like to see what he is capable playing in a good situation (good O-Line, running game and creative OC).

[OV Argo]

There will be stiff competition to sign any of the available QB’s as Toronto and Winnipeg both need to sign 2 of them, having said that I hope the Argos upgrade their overall QB depth and talent which in my books still leaves MBT in the mix.
You said it yourself “I feel as though he did fairly well under terrible circumstances last season”, I would like to see what he is capable playing in a good situation (good O-Line, running game and creative OC).

I'd also like to see what O'Connor could do in a sharp offence; didn't hear all this needs to "develop" talk when Arbuckle played for the Stumps or Evans for the Ticats. They weren't starters out of TC, but when they got their shot due to injury, they showed they could play with just a season of previous CFL roster experience.

[carlos]

For those saying they didn't do enough check out Winnipeg's numbers on offence from last year. 200 yds was the norm. There are 7 teams that would love MBT as a #2, especially if they don't have to pay him.

I do think Collaros would like to play in Toronto but it will cost with Winnipeg in the mix. Matt Nichols is the plan b guy at this point and not worth the money imo. Seems to be in good with mgmt though.

Was MBT on an entry level deal last year? That would be like getting Derek Walker for free.

I always liked Ian Wild but that's the side I'm looking at.

[Tobin Rote]

Nor should Collaros be overpaid. He has played half a dozen good games (most shared with a second QB who was a true change of pace for defences) in three years, basically. Still might have "it," but his health issues can't be overlooked, especially because concussions are likely more dangerous than anything Ricky Ray went through when some people were calling him injury-prone.

... and that's the only reason that I'd be concerned about going all in on Collaros. If he's healthy all year, I've no doubt that he'd be a significant upgrade. Will he remain healthy though... especially if he utilizes his mobility to a significant degree?

[jerrym]

I like Collaros a lot but the concussion question still hangs over him, considering he missed 16 games last year due to concussion and has a history of concussions. Paying him a lot of money to return to Toronto is risky under these circumstances in my view, especially when a previous history of concussions makes it more likely that he could suffer another one.

[jerrym]

The Als have released Canadian OL Spencer Wilson, a 31 year old nine year veteran, eight with the vaunted Stampeder OL, who has twice been a CFL All-Star. He can play all five all five OL positions and played 16 games last year, so it could a case of a player having signed a two year free agent contract in 2019 being cut for monetary reasons. Sounds like the kind of OL who could help the Argo OL if he can be got at the right price.

[OV Argo]

The Als have released Canadian OL Spencer Wilson, a 31 year old eight year veteran who has twice been a CFL All-Star. He can play all five all five OL positions and played 16 games last year, so it could a case of a player having signed a two year free agent contract in 2019 being cut for monetary reasons. Sounds like the kind of OL who could help the Argo OL if he can be got at the right price.


Wilson went from being a Stamps O-lineman of the year to basically being a back-up the past couple of seasons.

Versatile and has played all over the O-line, but unless he comes real cheap (apparently Mavis gave him a big pay-day with the Als), i think the Argos would be better to develop[ some younger O-linemen.

[Will]

I agree with OV -- the Argos focus needs to be on finding / developing bona fide starters on the OL. It has been the weakest positional area for several years now.

[doubleblue]

I agree with OV -- the Argos focus needs to be on finding / developing bona fide starters on the OL. It has been the weakest positional area for several years now.

Did anybody remember Coach Dinwiddie mentioning the OL at the press conference. I don't believe he thinks it doesn't need an upgrade but he talked about using different schemes etc. for protecting the QB. I don't believe any offense that uses a QB that is not mobile can avoid getting sacked often. The pass rushing specialists in the CFL are just too good. Collaros made those big plays in the WF and GC because he used his mobility to get outside the pocket. Being an accurate passer helped when he got there of course.
I lost track of how many times I found myself saying/yelling to MBT in games "throw it" "get rid of it" (the ball of course) while the steamboats ticked past 5. We all know a mobile QB can by time and make a OL look better.
Got to have a mobile QB in the CFL unless one can clone Ricky Ray, and he took his fair share of hits even with his quick accurate release.
I like what Murphy and Pinball have done so far. Big running backs. Check. Big DB's. Check. Hope I can say Collaros. Check
How about a 1st down TE who can actually catch the ball once in a while. Cibasu?
We will have to see what happens on the OL. They will probably have to start 4 "Nationals" with the new rules, but Randy Richards should be eligible to be classed as a National now. I like what I saw of Simba and Campbell. Just need McEwen back at center.

[ArgoZ]

I'd also like to see what O'Connor could do in a sharp offence; didn't hear all this needs to "develop" talk when Arbuckle played for the Stumps or Evans for the Ticats. They weren't starters out of TC, but when they got their shot due to injury, they showed they could play with just a season of previous CFL roster experience.

I didn’t believe any of the “protect the young QB” last season either. Every time he played, he did well or looked fine for a rookie. He’s taller, bigger and has a stronger arm than both those guys. He’s an exciting prospect, who’s really committed to playing in this league. If Franklin (played two decent games his whole career and doesn’t even look like he’s trying or cares) gets another shot before O‘Conner, I’ll start converting to your faith. I’m hoping for Arbuckle as our starter, O’Conner as backup and Prukop as a Special Teams/3rd QB next year.

[doubleblue]

I didn’t believe any of the “protect the young QB” last season either. Every time he played, he did well or looked fine for a rookie. He’s taller, bigger and has a stronger arm than both those guys. He’s an exciting prospect, who’s really committed to playing in this league. If Franklin (played two decent games his whole career and doesn’t even look like he’s trying or cares) gets another shot before O‘Conner, I’ll start converting to your faith. I’m hoping for Arbuckle as our starter, O’Conner as backup and Prukop as a Special Teams/3rd QB next year.

I would be happy with Collaros, Prukop and O'Connor as the three QB's and use it as a "National" starter spot. O'Connor could come in anytime for Collaros, while Prukop could replace an injured Collaros in a game as well.
Or for the Bethel-Thompson lovers, McLeod could also qualify as a "National" in place of Prukop or Collaros. Maybe they will keep all four with either MBT or Prukop stashed on the 1 game injured list depending on game circumstances and health.
Then draft Nathan Rourke for more National depth and development.

[paulwoods13]

I would be happy with Collaros, Prukop and O'Connor as the three QB's and use it as a "National" starter spot. O'Connor could come in anytime for Collaros, while Prukop could replace an injured Collaros in a game as well.

And if/when Collaros gets hurt, we'd ride out the season with Prukop and O'Connor? Pretty risky to put the team's fate in two guys who between them have thrown 55 passes in the CFL, don't you think? (Also, Prukop has not been named by Pinball or Dinwiddie as one of the internal guys they like, so reading the tea leaves I doubt he'll be back in Toronto.)

[paulwoods13]

I didn’t believe any of the “protect the young QB” last season either. Every time he played, he did well or looked fine for a rookie. He’s taller, bigger and has a stronger arm than both those guys. He’s an exciting prospect, who’s really committed to playing in this league. If Franklin (played two decent games his whole career and doesn’t even look like he’s trying or cares) gets another shot before O‘Conner, I’ll start converting to your faith. I’m hoping for Arbuckle as our starter, O’Conner as backup and Prukop as a Special Teams/3rd QB next year.

MOC played half of one RS game, plus two series in preseason (against scrubs). In the second of those PS games, he threw a terrible pass after making a terrible decision. Yes, he's an exciting prospect, but if he was capable of stepping in and playing well as a rookie, he'd have been more advanced than every QB currently in the league. IMO the smarter play is to let him develop over time than to throw him in too early and risk destroying him. Play the long game in hopes of a long, productive career.

[Argo57]

And if/when Collaros gets hurt, we'd ride out the season with Prukop and O'Connor? Pretty risky to put the team's fate in two guys who between them have thrown 55 passes in the CFL, don't you think? (Also, Prukop has not been named by Pinball or Dinwiddie as one of the internal guys they like, so reading the tea leaves I doubt he'll be back in Toronto.)

If Collaros is the guy then a capable veteran #2 is a must.

[paulwoods13]

I would be happy with Collaros, Prukop and O'Connor as the three QB's and use it as a "National" starter spot. O'Connor could come in anytime for Collaros, while Prukop could replace an injured Collaros in a game as well.

The notion of having vet QBs who qualify as NATs, thereby designating QB as one of the 10 NAT starter spots, is certainly intriguing. I don't know if it's actually legal, tho. The CBA is clear as mud on roster rules but it does still seem to treat the two mandatory QBs as neither NATs nor INTs.


1. For the 2020 and 2021 seasons, the Commissioner shall maintain in the League
office a registry of Players under contract with each Member Club. Prior to the
commencement of the regular season schedule each Member Club shall, in
accordance with a timetable prescribed by the Management Council, establish its
active Roster at:

(a) a maximum of 45 Players, including 2 Players who shall be identified as
quarterbacks and 43 other Players, of whom not more than 20 may be
Americans, or . . .

If veteran QBs can actually be classified as NATs rather than as QBs, then a few teams will no doubt name QB as one of their 10 NAT starter positions. But if QBs are in a separate category (as they seem to be), that doesn't seem possible. I would love to hear how the league interprets the CBA on this point.

[Antwon]

If Collaros is the guy then a capable veteran #2 is a must.

I'm torn on this. The best plan is to have a young backup brought along slowly. Examples are Arbuckle and Evans. Also Fajardo(backed up Ray and Lulay)
So with that I'd say OConner and Prukop. But with this only being O'Conner's second year, and a new offence coming in, it'd be safer with MBT or a similar backup.
Regardless I'd like to see O'Conner with the Argos long term.

[doubleblue]

The notion of having vet QBs who qualify as NATs, thereby designating QB as one of the 10 NAT starter spots, is certainly intriguing. I don't know if it's actually legal, tho. The CBA is clear as mud on roster rules but it does still seem to treat the two mandatory QBs as neither NATs nor INTs.


1. For the 2020 and 2021 seasons, the Commissioner shall maintain in the League
office a registry of Players under contract with each Member Club. Prior to the
commencement of the regular season schedule each Member Club shall, in
accordance with a timetable prescribed by the Management Council, establish its
active Roster at:

(a) a maximum of 45 Players, including 2 Players who shall be identified as
quarterbacks and 43 other Players, of whom not more than 20 may be
Americans, or . . .

If veteran QBs can actually be classified as NATs rather than as QBs, then a few teams will no doubt name QB as one of their 10 NAT starter positions. But if QBs are in a separate category (as they seem to be), that doesn't seem possible. I would love to hear how the league interprets the CBA on this point.

Could be the QB's are exempt. The 3 American "Nationals" have to come from the 20 Americans on the game day roster apparently. So maybe that leaves the QB's out of the picture. From what I understand this new ratio rule was put in place at the request of American players on the CFLPA to help protect veteran Americans from being cut for a cheaper player.

[paulwoods13]

The 3 American "Nationals" have to come from the 20 Americans on the game day roster apparently. So maybe that leaves the QB's out of the picture.

That's how I see it likely playing out as well. No NAT starting QBs (unless it is an actual NAT, which would count among the 7, er, 10 NAT starters, but would require a ratio change or a second "true" NAT QB as a backup in event of injury). If and when MOC is ready to start, it might be very useful to have a viable NAT backup. So maybe we can get someone like Merchant or one of the draft-eligible QBs and stash him for a year or two.

[Rich]

And if/when Collaros gets hurt, we'd ride out the season with Prukop and O'Connor? Pretty risky to put the team's fate in two guys who between them have thrown 55 passes in the CFL, don't you think?

Dane Evans only had thrown 42 passes before this season, but Hamilton took that risk and it paid off, didn’t it? He and Arbuckle both proved that you don’t necessarily need more than one season to develop into a good CFL QB these days. I think that between O’Connor and Prukop we’d have two good chances to find our Dane Evans if Collaros gets hurt.

What mitigates the risk is having top-end coaching that can create a system that the young QB can feel confident in. This was the case for Evans and Arbuckle and hopefully will be so for the Argo QBs this year.

[Rich]

MOC played half of one RS game, plus two series in preseason (against scrubs). In the second of those PS games, he threw a terrible pass after making a terrible decision.

Wow, and how many terrible passes did Bethel-Thompson throw over the course of two long seasons?

IIRC, O’Connor played closer to three quarters over two games. To me, he looked no better and no worse than MBT out there. If you distilled MBT’s 20-something starts down into three quarters it would have looked a lot like how O’Connor played.

The difference is that O’Connor is just getting started and has the potential to improve a whole lot, whereas MBT is older and much less likely to improve a whole lot. MBT did play a little better in 2019, but as has been discussed, he’s still got holes in his game and it looks like he will always have them.

[carlos]

Seeing that Hamilton has redone Evans contract and signed Masoli. Depending on the play time bonuses it appears they are in the $500,000 range for both with Evans locked up for the next two years. Have to think they are feeling good about that position on the depth chart.

Thinking Masoli around $400,000 will provide a number reflecting the value of a legit #1. Hard to think Zach Collaros or Matt Nichols would be worth more but who knows.

[paulwoods13]

Wow, and how many terrible passes did Bethel-Thompson throw over the course of two long seasons?

IIRC, O’Connor played closer to three quarters over two games. To me, he looked no better and no worse than MBT out there. If you distilled MBT’s 20-something starts down into three quarters it would have looked a lot like how O’Connor played.

The difference is that O’Connor is just getting started and has the potential to improve a whole lot, whereas MBT is older and much less likely to improve a whole lot. MBT did play a little better in 2019, but as has been discussed, he’s still got holes in his game and it looks like he will always have them.

We're gonna have to disagree on this, Rich. I love O'Connor's potential, too, but there is no way we can draw the conclusion that he is already at the level of MBT based on the tiny amount MOC has played. I'm not sure I ever saw MBT throw a pass as ill-advised and badly executed (off his back foot, falling backwards) as the one MOC threw in Hamilton in preseason, but that's beside the point. Maybe it's also beside the point that MBT has shown he can lead a team on a game-winning drive late in the fourth quarter.

As much as I want and expect MOC to succeed here, I believe that counting on it this season would be foolish. That's why I expect mgmt. will endeavour to have two experienced QBs in camp -- IMO Collaros and MBT, but we'll see about that.

[OV Argo]

Wow! - Evans is getting 500K range ?

Would be great for the Ticats to have both for a 1-2 punch at QB there; Evans can accept he is a back-up - for how long ?

[Argo57]

Wow! - Evans is getting 500K range ?

Would be great for the Ticats to have both for a 1-2 punch at QB there; Evans can accept he is a back-up - for how long ?

Evans deal is worth $230,000 if all bonuses are achieved and Masoli’s could reach $460,000 with bonuses which likely won’t happen for either player if playing time is split.
This luxury won’t last for the Ticats beyond the 2020 season.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwjM09y-jpHnAhWJHc0KHW-_ACkQFjABegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2F3downnation.com%2F2020%2F01%2F15 %2Fdane-evans-restructures-contract-with-hamilton-tiger-cats%2F&usg=AOvVaw3fkTpIFbPECefT3E7YLWTX

[doubleblue]

Evans deal is worth $230,000 if all bonuses are achieved and Masoli’s could reach $460,000 with bonuses which likely won’t happen for either player if playing time is split.
This luxury won’t last for the Ticats beyond the 2020 season.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwjM09y-jpHnAhWJHc0KHW-_ACkQFjABegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2F3downnation.com%2F2020%2F01%2F15 %2Fdane-evans-restructures-contract-with-hamilton-tiger-cats%2F&usg=AOvVaw3fkTpIFbPECefT3E7YLWTX

Hamilton will probably put Masoli on the 6 game to start the season to make sure he's healthy and save cap space. So only 2/3 of his salary would only count against the cap.

[AngeloV]

Hamilton will probably put Masoli on the 6 game to start the season to make sure he's healthy and save cap space. So only 2/3 of his salary would only count against the cap.

In the words of George Costanza: I don't think that's very fair.

:D

[argolio]

Evans and Arbuckle were both in their third year in 2019, so let's not pretend they had limited development.

[AngeloV]

Evans and Arbuckle were both in their third year in 2019, so let's not pretend they had limited development.

And Arbuckle was behind a USport QB in his first year on the depth chart. Obvious bias.

[gilthethrill]

Also a noteworthy transaction has Argo neg list qb Luis Perez being traded by the XFL LA Wildcats to the New York Guardians also of the XFL.

[Argo57]

Hamilton will probably put Masoli on the 6 game to start the season to make sure he's healthy and save cap space. So only 2/3 of his salary would only count against the cap.

No doubt, one of them will be moving on after this season.

[Argo57]

No surprise, Winnipeg very interested in signing Collaros to a new contract.
If this happens the Argos options at QB suddenly could be somewhat limited.

https://3downnation.com/2020/01/20/bombers-focused-on-signing-quarterback-zach-collaros/

[OV Argo]

No surprise, Winnipeg very interested in signing Collaros to a new contract.
If this happens the Argos options at QB suddenly could be somewhat limited.

https://3downnation.com/2020/01/20/bombers-focused-on-signing-quarterback-zach-collaros/


Collaros should re-sign there and hope to lead them to back-to-back GC wins - rare CFL territory. Argos get a 1st rounder out of that deal (do i understand that right?)

Hope the Argos aren't desperate enough for a veteran QB to want Nichols out of the Peg - and would the Bummers be able to afford both Collaros & Nichols to have a 1-2 punch there?

Would the Argos be willing to roll with MBT as starter with O'Connor or Prukop or another young QB as the 2 back-ups? Mind not be that bad with a smart OC - MBT might progress with a smarter offence and O'Connor might be able to step-up if MBT faltered. Nichols might be a slight up-grade over MBT, but not that much really, IMO.

[Argo57]

Collaros should re-sign there and hope to lead them to back-to-back GC wins - rare CFL territory. Argos get a 1st rounder out of that deal (do i understand that right?)

Hope the Argos aren't desperate enough for a veteran QB to want Nichols out of the Peg - and would the Bummers be able to afford both Collaros & Nichols to have a 1-2 punch there?

Would the Argos be willing to roll with MBT as starter with O'Connor or Prukop or another young QB as the 2 back-ups? Mind not be that bad with a smart OC - MBT might progress with a smarter offence and O'Connor might be able to step-up if MBT faltered. Nichols might be a slight up-grade over MBT, but not that much really, IMO.

You are correct OV, Argos get the additional pick (9th overall) if the Bombers re-sign Collaros.
Matt Nichols, no thanks.
If Collaros signs in Winnipeg and Arbuckle signs with the RedBlacks then the Argos options are very limited.
I also think there will be interest in MBT from other teams so things could get interesting from an Argo perspective (and not necessarily in a good way).

[Shatto]

If Collaros does sign with the Peg, the Argos by default, will end up with MBT as their starter. It is unlikely that MBT would entertain offers to be a backup elsewhere, so he probably would sign with the Argos. I recognize that some have argued, he is capable of being a more than capable starter but having him as our number 1 QB next year does not exactly fill me with confidence. If the team does end up with MBT as the starting QB, we better hope that those who have been championing him, had it right after all.

[Rich]

We're gonna have to disagree on this, Rich.

Hey Paul, I'm just grateful for ANY discussion of the 2020 QB situation. It's not exactly saturating the local media.

[Rich]

No surprise, Winnipeg very interested in signing Collaros to a new contract.
If this happens the Argos options at QB suddenly could be somewhat limited.

Unless the Bombers can convince his in-laws to uproot their family home in Aurora and move to Winnipeg, it ain't happening.

[paulwoods13]

Hope the Argos aren't desperate enough for a veteran QB to want Nichols out of the Peg - and would the Bummers be able to afford both Collaros & Nichols to have a 1-2 punch there?

Would the Argos be willing to roll with MBT as starter with O'Connor or Prukop or another young QB as the 2 back-ups? Mind not be that bad with a smart OC - MBT might progress with a smarter offence and O'Connor might be able to step-up if MBT faltered. Nichols might be a slight up-grade over MBT, but not that much really, IMO.

Will wonders never cease? We agree on not one but two points. I also don't want Nichols, and I obviously believe MBT is capable of starting. IMO Nichols would not be even a slight upgrade over MBT, but that's a minor quibble compared to the other points of agreement.

[paulwoods13]

No surprise, Winnipeg very interested in signing Collaros to a new contract.
If this happens the Argos options at QB suddenly could be somewhat limited.

https://3downnation.com/2020/01/20/bombers-focused-on-signing-quarterback-zach-collaros/

Assuming this is true -- and given the source, that is not entirely guaranteed -- it makes sense. Collaros is likely healthier at this point, and Nichols was way more expensive last season. Why not try to sign your Grey Cup hero, and maybe save some money at the same time?

Winnipeg would be handing Collaros some nice leverage, salary-wise, in any negots he has with Toronto.

The possibility that we won't get someone we targeted, whether that is Collaros or Arbuckle, is precisely why I've been saying for weeks that we needed to sign MBT. He's the one guy we can lock up before free agency. I would really hate to end up with picking through the left-overs (like Nichols) when all is said and done.

[AngeloV]

Unless the Bombers can convince his in-laws to uproot their family home in Aurora and move to Winnipeg, it ain't happening.

We’re not even sure the current Argos regime even has any interest in him. If the Bombers offer him in the 500k range, I would think he would jump at it.

[paulwoods13]

Unless the Bombers can convince his in-laws to uproot their family home in Aurora and move to Winnipeg, it ain't happening.

I wish I could believe that, Rich, but I don't know too many couples who would put being close to parents ahead of other considerations including lifestyle and salary. Winnipeg has a lot to offer Collaros, including a great facility that is usually at least 80% full and a rabid fan base -- the entire city is Bomber-crazy. He knows O'Shea and Pierce and is probably comfortable with both. Plus much lower cost of living than Toronto and virtually no traffic headaches.

Toronto also has things in its favour, including entertainment options and anonymity (for players who'd prefer that), and Pinball's presence/personality is a wild card. But I think there is an excellent chance Collaros will sign in the Peg if Bombers offer him big money and commit to him as their man.

[Rich]

We’re not even sure the current Argos regime even has any interest in him. If the Bombers offer him in the 500k range, I would think he would jump at it.

well we can be reasonably certain that Bill Manning is not going to sign off on a plan that has MBT as the #1 starter. If it’s not Collaros it will be Arbuckle coming in, but whoever it is they want, they will not get outbid for him.

I’d bet Manning is pushing for Collaros: proven veteran, Grey Cup champ, lives in the area and a telegenic face for the franchise.

[Rich]

Winnipeg has a lot to offer Collaros, including a great facility that is usually at least 80% full and a rabid fan base -- the entire city is Bomber-crazy. He knows O'Shea and Pierce and is probably comfortable with both. Plus much lower cost of living than Toronto and virtually no traffic headaches.


If it was a choice between these things and making your wife happy by moving to Toronto -- assuming the contract is similar -- which would You choose?

[Jon Gonzo]

Pretty sad to admit that the city of Winnipeg owns ANY advantage on a world class city like Toronto (;

[AngeloV]

well we can be reasonably certain that Bill Manning is not going to sign off on a plan that has MBT as the #1 starter. If it’s not Collaros it will be Arbuckle coming in, but whoever it is they want, they will not get outbid for him.

I’d bet Manning is pushing for Collaros: proven veteran, Grey Cup champ, lives in the area and a telegenic face for the franchise.

I don't think this is accurate at all. Manning hired Pinball for a reason. I personally want Collaros back here, but I really don't think it's a given the Argos do. Popp did, we know that. But Popp is gone.

Also, let's not all try and pretend we know what Collaros and his family want. It's a less than 6 month season. I'm sure he would not be against re-signing with the only team he has won a championship with.

[Rich]

I don't think this is accurate at all. Manning hired Pinball for a reason. I personally want Collaros back here, but I really don't think it's a given the Argos do. Popp did, we know that. But Popp is gone.

Also, let's not all try and pretend we know what Collaros and his family want. It's a less than 6 month season. I'm sure he would not be against re-signing with the only team he has won a championship with.

Manning did not speak very highly about MBT in an interview late last season. And when Collaros was traded to Winnipeg, Pinball specifically stated that he could return to the Argos next year. Why would he say that if they had no interest in him?

And who is pretending to know what Collaros wants? It has been a well-known fact for months that he wants to play in the GTA. It's you and others who are doing the speculating that he has changed his mind.

[AngeloV]

And who is pretending to know what Collaros wants? It has been a well-known fact for months that he wants to play in the GTA. It's you and others who are doing the speculating that he has changed his mind.

Actually it was Collaros himself that said this "well know fact" is kind of news to him.

https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/friesen-door-wide-open-for-collaros-return-to-bombers







“Somehow this narrative that’s got pushed around, that no matter what happens we want to be back in Toronto – I don’t know how that got started,” Collaros said. “That’s pretty funny to me when people call me to tell me they read this or saw this somewhere. If you know me and how I am, I want to be in the best situation possible. I don’t really care where it’s at… I just want to play good football.”

[paulwoods13]

If it was a choice between these things and making your wife happy by moving to Toronto -- assuming the contract is similar -- which would You choose?

But we don't know that his wife feels any particular need to be close to her family. Tons of people move away from their parents and siblings and live happy lives.

[paulwoods13]

Manning did not speak very highly about MBT in an interview late last season.

That's true, but Manning also hired Pinball and Murphy to make football decisions, presumably. I'm sure he will have a say in the matter, but even if he is adamantly opposed to MBT for whatever reason, he can't guarantee a better QB signs with the Argos. Unless they trade for the rights to Collaros or Arbuckle (which seems very unlikely) and then sign the new guy, the Argos are going to be taking their chances in free agency. Right now Wpg and Ott have huge advantages over Toronto when it comes to getting Collaros and Arbuckle to sign. One or both guys might wait until free agency to see what MLSE is prepared to offer, but even if we roll up a Brink's truck, the guy might not take it. Just like BLM didn't take a much better offer from Toronto than he got from Calgary. If Manning (or Pinball or Murphy) has decided MBT is done here, they are taking a very big gamble. IMO MBT is very much still in play here, based on recent comments from Pinball and Dinwiddie. And why wouldn't he be? He might end up as the best available option.

[Argo57]

I don't think this is accurate at all. Manning hired Pinball for a reason. I personally want Collaros back here, but I really don't think it's a given the Argos do. Popp did, we know that. But Popp is gone.

Also, let's not all try and pretend we know what Collaros and his family want. It's a less than 6 month season. I'm sure he would not be against re-signing with the only team he has won a championship with.

Agree with this Angelo, a lot of assumptions being made in regards to Collaros with no hard facts to back it up.
Argos are in an interesting situation right now, I’ve been saying all along the Argos are no sure thing to land any of the “prized” free agents QB’s as things sit right now which is concerning.

[doubleblue]

Well IMO this is all still in the negoiation stage. Walters talking to the media about signing Collaros to send a little message to the Nichols camp who may think they have the Bombers over a barrel. Collaros on the other hand doesn't want the Argos to think he will give them the so called home town discount.
Also if Dinwiddie really wants Arbuckle how high is Manning willing to go. With the salary cap limit now I think anything over 500,000 for a starting QB weakens the rest of the roster. With the minimum going up to 65,000 and veteran Americans needed to fill the new 10 starter "National" ratio the cap money has to be spread around more. I believe Mitchell had his salary redone in Calgary to help with their cap issues. Maybe Reilly will have to do the same in BC.

[Argo57]

Murphy continuing the trend of signing DB’s with good size who could possibly be useful at one of the LB positions👍

https://www.argonauts.ca/2020/01/21/argos-add-db-stanley-jean-baptiste/

[doubleblue]

Murphy continuing the trend of signing DB’s with good size who could possibly be useful at one of the LB positions

https://www.argonauts.ca/2020/01/21/argos-add-db-stanley-jean-baptiste/

Keep em coming Murph. I hope to see a couple of new QB's on February 11th.

[argolio]

Also a noteworthy transaction has Argo neg list qb Luis Perez being traded by the XFL LA Wildcats to the New York Guardians also of the XFL.He's getting closer to Toronto!

[jerrym]

According to Farhan Lalji, Canadian WR/KR TJ Jones is thinking of playing in the CFL after five years in the NFL. Since he was not drafted in the 2014 CFL draft, he would be a free agent who, if the Argos could sign him, would deepen the Argos Canadian personnel.



The University of Notre Dame product made three catches for 38 yards and one touchdown plus eight punt returns for 96 yards — including a 60-yarder – but fumble three times, losing two in three games with the New York Giants in 2019. ...

Jones caught 12 passes for 146 yards and two touchdowns in the pre-season with New York. Due to his veteran status, Jones is not eligible for a practice roster spot with any NFL team. ...

The 27-year-old was a sixth round pick, 189th overall in the 2014 NFL draft by the Detroit Lions. He played the first four seasons of his NFL career in the Motor City. During 45 NFL games, Jones has made 67 receptions for 852 yards and five touchdowns. The six-foot, 190-pounder can return kicks and punts as well. Jones has 14 kick returns for 292 yards and 29 punt returns for 289 yards. He has 4.48 40-yard speed and is dynamic in the open field.
https://3downnation.com/2020/01/21/potential-ratio-breaking-canadian-receiver-t-j-jones-considering-playing-in-the-cfl/

[Rich]

Actually it was Collaros himself that said this "well know fact" is kind of news to him.

https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/friesen-door-wide-open-for-collaros-return-to-bombers

I love where he says he doesn't know where people got the idea that he wanted to play in Toronto. Gee Zach, maybe it's because Naylor and every other CFL insider have been saying it for months. Where did THEY get the idea?

[Rich]

Collaros on the other hand doesn't want the Argos to think he will give them the so called home town discount.


This is exactly it. He wants to start a bidding war, and his timing is very good. Those four games he played in 2019 have probably added at least a couple hundred grand to what he would have made otherwise on a 2020 contract.

[OV Argo]

Murphy continuing the trend of signing DB’s with good size who could possibly be useful at one of the LB positions

https://www.argonauts.ca/2020/01/21/argos-add-db-stanley-jean-baptiste/


Some very impressive - on paper - off-season signings for the Argo D - this guy is a 2nd round NFL draft pick with big DB or
CFL LB size.

A couple of those DE signings - Davis with NFL playing time resume, and that former D2 defensive player of the year Richardson who was on the Chargers PR - be nice to find another Victor Butler type DE who can be a pass rush force.

Could be a real interestin' TC competition on the D for the new DC and his staff to consider.

[carlos]

Excellent discussion guys.

I am curious where Derel Walker is slotted in in terms of priority or is there thinking SJ is less money and good for another year in that role. They both had some amazing games last year. No point in signing a high priced QB without receivers. For example if MBT and Derel Walker add up to $500,000, who is the receiver that fits with Zach Collaros to do the same. Maybe Worthy is that guy and he is already there.

Question 2 is it the same player agent representing both Collaros and Nichols. I believe one guy has quite a few. Reilly and Nichols for sure use the same guy.

Any speculation regarding a potential trade of BLM to the Argos if Collaros signs in Wpg. just to spice up the conversation. MLSE buy their star and he is good. Arbuckle stays in Calgary. MBT re-signs for insurance and starts the season if Bo is not ready. Nichols lands in Ottawa to complete the loop. Six other #2 positions open across the league.

Likely not signing MBT until they know they are not signing Nick Arbuckle is my thinking. Getting very interesting.

[ArgoZ]

Hey Paul, I'm just grateful for ANY discussion of the 2020 QB situation. It's not exactly saturating the local media.

Too bad. There is a lot of factors at play that make it very interesting. O’Conner had a decent Rookie season. It could have been even better with more playing time, which was available. I wouldn’t worry about a terrible pass in his first ever pre-season. Only way he progresses is to be the backup. If the Argos land Arbuckle to a big contract, I think that’s what will happen. Not only does he look poised as a rookie, SJ Green had glowing praise taking about his preparation and dedication to the sport. Maybe an unintentional shot at Franklin at the time, but I’m all for a guy who’s 100% committed. Got to take a chance on him sometime.

[paulwoods13]

O’Conner had a decent Rookie season. It could have been even better with more playing time, which was available. I wouldn’t worry about a terrible pass in his first ever pre-season. Only way he progresses is to be the backup.

I'm not worried about it (it was his second PS game, BTW) but I'm also not gonna ignore it. Young QBs often make bad decisions -- that's what he did, no biggie but also suggestive that he might not have been ready to play regularly as a rookie. I don't agree he needs to be the backup to progress -- he needs more reps in practice and more playing time. Those could come from third-string as well as No. 2, and IMO No. 3 (dressing, and playing in some situations) would probably be a more logical role for him this year than the pressure of being primary backup in a league where starting QBs regularly get injured. I'd love to be wrong and have him develop into a guy who could start this year, but I'm more concerned with having him develop into a guy who can start for five to 10 years. Rushing him could be counter-productive to that goal.

[Jon Gonzo]

We can't have nice things

[AngeloV]

We can't have nice things

We have a nice stadium.

[Jon Gonzo]

We have a nice stadium.

lol, yes lets get some 'nice people' to sit in it

[ArgoZ]

I don't agree he needs to be the backup to progress -- he needs more reps in practice and more playing time. Those could come from third-string as well as No. 2, and IMO No. 3 (dressing, and playing in some situations) would probably be a more logical role for him this year than the pressure of being primary backup in a league where starting QBs regularly get injured. I'd love to be wrong and have him develop into a guy who could start this year, but I'm more concerned with having him develop into a guy who can start for five to 10 years. Rushing him could be counter-productive to that goal.

If teams are only dressing 2 QB’s, I don’t see much progression with O’Conner on the sidelines in street clothes. He needs to be in helmet and ready to get that playing time you mention.

[ArgoZ]

Pretty sad to admit that the city of Winnipeg owns ANY advantage on a world class city like Toronto (;

LOL. I would like to remind everyone how great we have it living here in Ontario. I don’t need a rumour to confirm that any young lady would prefer to live here rather than a place like Winnipeg or worse, Regina. $400 000 for 6-7 months work, would be enough to send the husband away though, especially to an often visiting East team.

[paulwoods13]

If teams are only dressing 2 QB’s, I don’t see much progression with O’Conner on the sidelines in street clothes. He needs to be in helmet and ready to get that playing time you mention.

I've previously suggested the Argos can and in fact should dress MOC as a third QB, using one of their NAT backup spots. And I do feel that guys can develop with practice reps as well, altho it's hard to get a lot of reps for a third-stringer with the short practice times in this league.

[paulwoods13]

LOL. I would like to remind everyone how great we have it living here in Ontario. I don’t need a rumour to confirm that any young lady would prefer to live here rather than a place like Winnipeg or worse, Regina.

"Any young lady" is a bit of an exaggeration. Believe it or not, there are people who view things a lot differently than that. Not everyone loves humidity, traffic, insane housing prices, etc. Winnipeg is a very livable city.

[OV Argo]

We should start a poll here : predict where the QBs will end up.

Arbuckle - is he really going to turn down a chance to start in Ottawa ?

Does any CFL team really value either MBT or Nichols as a starter ? I guess if LaPo does he would tell Desjardins to not care that much about Arbuckle and low-ball him and go out and get one of those other 2 ?

Collaros - rather be in Toronna playing for a rookie HC and before 8 or 9 thousand fans instead of a chance to start for the reigning GC Champs ?

[doubleblue]

Apparently Winnipeg has offered Collaros 350,000 base salary plus incentives. Nichols and his agent are upset as they can do the math and haven't been given an offer. I can see Nichols probably thinking he was worth at least 500,000 comparing himself to what Reilly and Bo Levi are making. Negotiations are such fun, to watch from a far.

[AngeloV]

We should start a poll here : predict where the QBs will end up.

Arbuckle - is he really going to turn down a chance to start in Ottawa ?

Does any CFL team really value either MBT or Nichols as a starter ? I guess if LaPo does he would tell Desjardins to not care that much about Arbuckle and low-ball him and go out and get one of those other 2 ?

Collaros - rather be in Toronna playing for a rookie HC and before 8 or 9 thousand fans instead of a chance to start for the reigning GC Champs ?

I see ZC in Winnipeg, Nichols in Ottawa and Arbuckle in Toronto.

[OV Argo]

I see ZC in Winnipeg, Nichols in Ottawa and Arbuckle in Toronto.

Ill go with Arbuckle in Ottawa. ZC in the Peg, and Nichols as a back-up somewhere - maybe even stays in the Peg. What about MBT? - stays in TO, IMO

NO to Arbuckle with the Argos please

[jerrym]

I see ZC in Winnipeg, Nichols in Ottawa and Arbuckle in Toronto.

Arbuckle, despite going to Ottawa to talk to the team, has indicated that he is no hurry to sign with the Redblacks, so he could end up here. Winnipeg should decide who it wants to prioritize in signing, ZC or Nichols, or it is possible it could lose both in free agency.

[Rich]

Collaros - rather be in Toronna playing for a rookie HC and before 8 or 9 thousand fans instead of a chance to start for the reigning GC Champs ?

That's a short-term view, but if he wants to lay down roots in the GTA surely he will look at a longer view. He'll be working for one of the biggest sports organizations in the world. And if there's one thing about the boys at MLSE, they love a winner. If he can help turn the Argos around with sustained success on the field, and if he plays his cards right, doors will open off the field. He'll be rubbing elbows with the Canadian elite. There are so many more post-football opportunities in Toronto than in Winnipeg, but only if he gets in on the ground floor now, and only if he makes a name for himself by winning. It's a big challenge, but a huge potential payoff to consider.

[Rich]

Apparently Winnipeg has offered Collaros 350,000 base salary plus incentives. Nichols and his agent are upset as they can do the math and haven't been given an offer. I can see Nichols probably thinking he was worth at least 500,000 comparing himself to what Reilly and Bo Levi are making. Negotiations are such fun, to watch from a far.

If we can get Collaros for $375,000 it would be an absolute steal IMO.

[Jon Gonzo]

Arbuckle, Toronto
Prucop, Toronto
Collaros, Winnipeg
Nichols, Ottawa
MBT, Ottawa

[AngeloV]

Ill go with Arbuckle in Ottawa. ZC in the Peg, and Nichols as a back-up somewhere - maybe even stays in the Peg. What about MBT? - stays in TO, IMO

NO to Arbuckle with the Argos please

Not necessarily what I want, but it is what I predict. If we do sign Arbuckle, I will have an open mind.

[carlos]

If I am Ottawa and Arbuckle is not in the picture I go for MBT before Matt Nichols. Would think less money.

[paulwoods13]

Best-case scenario, we end up with Arbuckle or Collaros, plus MBT.

Worst-case scenario, we end up without any of them, and settle for Nichols.

[Jon Gonzo]

Best-case scenario, we end up with Arbuckle or Collaros, plus MBT.

Worst-case scenario, we end up without any of them, and settle for Nichols.

Also my first choice -- with Collaros 1st and Arbuckle 2nd

[carlos]

Best-case scenario, we end up with Arbuckle or Collaros, plus MBT.

Worst-case scenario, we end up without any of them, and settle for Nichols.

Would take the time to call Travis Lulay and ask him if he is sure before going all in on Matt Nichols.

[AngeloV]

Best-case scenario, we end up with Arbuckle or Collaros, plus MBT.

Worst-case scenario, we end up without any of them, and settle for Nichols.

I agree.

[Jon Gonzo]

From Ottawa today;

RELEASED:

American quarterback William Ardnt (Western Connecticut State)
American receiver Seth Coate (Saint Fracis - IN)
American defensive back Maurice Fleming (West Virginia)
American quarterback Jonathon Jennings (Saginaw Valley State)
American linebacker Jeff Knox (California - PA)
American running back Mossis Madu (Oklahoma)
National long snapper Mike Benson (Acadia)
National linebacker Nicolas Boulay (Sherbrooke)
National running back Greg Morris (New Mexico Military)
National defensive lineman Cameron Walker (Guelph)

["Issues"Mcgee]

Collaros - rather be in Toronna playing for a rookie HC and before 8 or 9 thousand fans instead of a chance to start for the reigning GC Champs ?

Bah! I'd rather the honour of playing for 8 or 9 thousand of the greatest fans over 30,000 nobodies, am I right?

I would be equally happy with Collaros or Arbuckle. Collaros might put some hope into the hearts of Argos fans what with his name and most recent success.

Arbuckle is from California. While I have little care or affection for that place, some of the best QB's have come from there for some reason.

[OV Argo]

From Ottawa today;

RELEASED:

American quarterback William Ardnt (Western Connecticut State)
American receiver Seth Coate (Saint Fracis - IN)
American defensive back Maurice Fleming (West Virginia)
American quarterback Jonathon Jennings (Saginaw Valley State)
American linebacker Jeff Knox (California - PA)
American running back Mossis Madu (Oklahoma)
National long snapper Mike Benson (Acadia)
National linebacker Nicolas Boulay (Sherbrooke)
National running back Greg Morris (New Mexico Military)
National defensive lineman Cameron Walker (Guelph)



Flushed 2 of last year's QBs; Arndt looked ok or decent at best in some late season playing time; Jennings might have worn out his CFL welcome by now - repeat chances and could not re-gain the good form he once showed in BC.

Madu was an ultra mediocre running back who kept getting repeat chances for reasons beyond me - Gillanders was easily the far better RB, but I guess Madu's passport trumped him for playing time from Campbell & Desjardins types.

LaPo might have very different ideas about CFL talent than Campbell & Desjardins - who IMO were out to lunch on a whole bunch of their roster.

Ex-Argo Walker has bounced around, but might be out of CFL chances now as teams look at younger NIs to fill minimun wage spots - but i guess he could get another CFL look for a team in need of ST bodies. Knox has bounced around too after at first looking like a pretty good LB for the Riders and then took an NFL shot.

[carlos]

Could be Winnipeg is squeezing Matt Nichols to sign low with the "focus on ZC" story and believe Wpg would feel good about another year of Nichols / Streveler if they could do it.

[OV Argo]

Could be Winnipeg is squeezing Matt Nichols to sign low with the "focus on ZC" story and believe Wpg would feel good about another year of Nichols / Streveler if they could do it.

What if Strevler lands an NFL gig though (i think he might) ?

BTW - welcome here Carlos - good to have you.

I wonder if either the Bummers or LaPo in Ottawa might be tempted to draft Nathan Rourke - to have a Strevler type powerful running QB in their mix.

[Argo57]

From Ottawa today;

RELEASED:

American quarterback William Ardnt (Western Connecticut State)
American receiver Seth Coate (Saint Fracis - IN)
American defensive back Maurice Fleming (West Virginia)
American quarterback Jonathon Jennings (Saginaw Valley State)
American linebacker Jeff Knox (California - PA)
American running back Mossis Madu (Oklahoma)
National long snapper Mike Benson (Acadia)
National linebacker Nicolas Boulay (Sherbrooke)
National running back Greg Morris (New Mexico Military)
National defensive lineman Cameron Walker (Guelph)


Ottawa cleaning house at QB, is an announcement around the corner?

[carlos]

What if Strevler lands an NFL gig though (i think he might) ?

BTW - welcome here Carlos - good to have you.

I wonder if either the Bummers or LaPo in Ottawa might be tempted to draft Nathan Rourke - to have a Strevler type powerful running QB in their mix.

Thanks for the welcome OV. It's an honor for me to post amongst what I consider a very elite group of CFL enthusiasts. I will try to tread lightly.

Chris Streveler stands to get a raise from where he was. I think he is listening to offers.

Compare to Dane Evans at $230,000 maybe he takes $250,000 to stay in Winnipeg in a good situation. Matt Nichols at $350,000 is a more likeable fit than at $500,000. If the NFL comes calling for Steveler, Winnipeg has to be prepared for an injury to Nichols or Collaros for that matter. big gulp right there.

The ball is in Kyle Walters hands as he could sign any of the three right now and get things rolling. I don't think letting them all go to FA is a good idea. Collaros price is currently rising and Nichols is going down.

For the Argos MBT and Arbuckle / Collaros with O'Conner / Prukop is a boat load and think MBT will likely have to get paid somewhere else without a lot of options if they sign either Arbuckle or Collaros. Tough situation to be in when the GM has committed to another guy for a players entire career.

Maybe Pinball has a plan.

To comment on the coaching staff I would have to say I am surprised they went with who they did after going so young with Dinwiddie. Mark Nelson is the only experienced coach. Hope it works out though.

[jerrym]

The Argos have added two more Americans to the roster: DL Whitney Richardson and DB Kadeem Satchell. They also announced that LS Joe Spaziani has retired.



Richardson, 27, spent 2017 and 2018 on and off the Los Angeles Chargers practice squad after being signed by the NFL team in August of 2017 as an undrafted free agent. The 6’5, 250-pound defensive lineman was named 2016 NCAA Division II Defensive Player of the Year after posting 17.5 sacks and 32.5 tackles for loss in only 10 games at Lane College in Tennessee. The Florida native made stops at Mesa Community College and Arizona Christian University before playing at Lane College.

Satchell, 6’2 and 210-pounds, spent time with the Edmonton Eskimos and Memphis Express of the AAF in 2019 during the team’s training camps. The defensive back played for the Indoor Football League’s Cedar Rapids Titans in 2016, recording 54 tackles, one interception and two forced fumbles in 15 games. The Texas native attended Emporia State where he finished his career with 141 tackles, five interceptions, three fumbles recoveries and two defensive touchdowns in 42 games.

The team also announced that long snapper Joe Spaziani has retired from the CFL to pursue a graduate assistant coaching position at his alma mater, the University of Virginia. Spaziani was a sixth-round draft choice of the Argos in 2019 and played in seven games last season.
https://www.argonauts.ca/2020/01/20/argos-add-two-americans-defensive-side/

[Mightygoose]

Collaros not coming back to the Argos. Re up for 2 years in Winnipeg.

https://www.tsn.ca/winnipeg-blue-bombers-sign-qb-zach-collaros-to-two-year-extension-1.1433446

I believe we know get their first round pick?

[paulwoods13]

So much for "he'd never choose Wpg over Toronto." Honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all. Wpg has a good team, a good organization, a good coach, an excellent fanbase and is a good city to live in.

So we are down to Arbuckle (still a longshot IMO, altho he sure has a lot of financial leverage now) or/and MBT. I can live with either but would prefer both. But I believe Ott will make it very hard for Arbuckle to say No to them.

And there's always Nichols, of course. But honestly I would prefer (by a considerable amount) MBT as our starter over Nichols.

[Shatto]

Unfortunately it is a PR disaster. It will be hard to excite fans into buying season tickets, while staying pat at QB. This is not saying MBT can't do the job but the prospect just doesn't excite.

[Rich]

So much for "he'd never choose Wpg over Toronto."

Well, what do I know?

I will say that I'm bitter as hell that this franchise has sunk so low that it can't even sign a player that has put down roots in Toronto. Fvck these stupid Argonauts.

[paulwoods13]

Well, what do I know?

I will say that I'm bitter as hell that this franchise has sunk so low that it can't even sign a player that has put down roots in Toronto. Fvck these stupid Argonauts.

Woah, Rich. We don't know for a fact that the organization even wanted to sign him. We are pretty sure Jim Popp did, but he's gone. And even if the new regime did want to sign him, they didn't have a chance to succeed or fail because they aren't eligible to speak to him. If he had gotten to free agency and turned down an Argo offer, it might be fair to bemoan the sad state of affairs. But it doesn't seem reasonable (to me, at least) to rip the org for something completely out of its control.

[AngeloV]

Well, what do I know?

I will say that I'm bitter as hell that this franchise has sunk so low that it can't even sign a player that has put down roots in Toronto. Fvck these stupid Argonauts.

Rich, I think you just read too much into the situation. Collaros and any football player wants to play in what they believe to be the best situation as a player. What can possibly be better than returning to a team they just won a championship with. It’s only a 6 month season and this should have no bearing on where he wants to live. I wanted him here too, but after reading his comments I honestly didn’t expect him to return.

[AngeloV]

Unfortunately it is a PR disaster. It will be hard to excite fans into buying season tickets, while staying pat at QB. This is not saying MBT can't do the job but the prospect just doesn't excite.

It’s not a PR disaster. I hate to say this, but the majority of Toronto wouldn’t know Zach Collaros from Stephen Reeves. Sad, but true. The team has to start winning and learn how to market players before we see better days at the gate.

Just my ooinion, but to call this a PR nightmare is way over the top.

[Rich]

Woah, Rich. We don't know for a fact that the organization even wanted to sign him. We are pretty sure Jim Popp did, but he's gone. And even if the new regime did want to sign him, they didn't have a chance to succeed or fail because they aren't eligible to speak to him. If he had gotten to free agency and turned down an Argo offer, it might be fair to bemoan the sad state of affairs. But it doesn't seem reasonable (to me, at least) to rip the org for something completely out of its control.

Hey Paul, you and others were right that winning and having fun playing the game trumps playing in your adopted hometown. Collaros obviously concluded that he wasn't going to win or have fun playing in Toronto (he is probably right), and for that the organization is 100% to blame.

[argolio]

If Arbuckle signs with Ottawa and the Argos don't think MBT or Nichols is a legit #1, then what?

[Jon Gonzo]

Oh I don't know. What do you prefer?

Arbuckle, Prucop, O'Connor

or MBT, Nichols and O'Connor?

Both combo's still do-able

[doubleblue]

Collaros not coming back to the Argos. Re up for 2 years in Winnipeg.

https://www.tsn.ca/winnipeg-blue-bombers-sign-qb-zach-collaros-to-two-year-extension-1.1433446

I believe we know get their first round pick?

And then there were two. Next stage of speculation is who will be the Argos starting QB come free agency. Arbuckle or Nichols? I'm not excited as a STH with the thought of Matt Nichols behind that Argo line but it could be where we're headed. Would much rather see him in Ottawa, but it is what it is. He is a better passer than MBT as far as I'm concerned but not as tough, which is a priority in Toronto right now. MBT can take a hit which may his best feature.
Have to hold out hope Arbuckle wants to sign here to continue learning under Dinwiddie. No reason the Argos can't outbid Ottawa if it's just dollars and cents. So now we get the 2nd and 9th pick overall and can only hope they choose wisely.

[ArgoZ]

Oh I don't know. What do you prefer?

Arbuckle, Prucop, O'Connor

or MBT, Nichols and O'Connor?

Both combo's still do-able

Can’t blame the Argos for players signing elsewhere before they are even allowed to talk to them. With free agency fast approaching, the RedBlacks haven’t signed Arbuckle and the Argos haven’t re-signed MBT. That’s tells me where the Argos head is at.

[Argo57]

Collaros signing with the Bombers doesn’t surprise me at all coming off a championship with them.
Argonaut QB options are gradually closing which is concerning.

[OV Argo]

Arbuckle with sign with Ottawa - i'll take bets there.

Argos want Nichols for the sake of having a "veteran" QB ? I'd rather go with MBT + O'Connor or Prukop or another young QB (could also think of drafting either Rourke or Sinagra).

[paulwoods13]

Hey Paul, you and others were right that winning and having fun playing the game trumps playing in your adopted hometown. Collaros obviously concluded that he wasn't going to win or have fun playing in Toronto (he is probably right), and for that the organization is 100% to blame.

Sorry Rich but again there is nothing obvious about what Collaros concluded. Again, we don't know whether the Argos really wanted him -- one thing we do know is that they traded him away -- and we don't know anything about what he perceived as his choice(s). It's possible the Bombers made an offer with a time limit, and if he waited until free agency it was coming off the table. Considering his injury history, if the dollars are anywhere close to what's being reported, he would have been insane not to take it, especially if it wasn't an indefinite offer.

[paulwoods13]

Arbuckle with sign with Ottawa - i'll take bets there.

Argos want Nichols for the sake of having a "veteran" QB ? I'd rather go with MBT + O'Connor or Prukop or another young QB (could also think of drafting either Rourke or Sinagra).

Again we agree. What is happening!?

[Argo57]

Arbuckle with sign with Ottawa - i'll take bets there.

Argos want Nichols for the sake of having a "veteran" QB ? I'd rather go with MBT + O'Connor or Prukop or another young QB (could also think of drafting either Rourke or Sinagra).

MBT and the younger QB’s may indeed be the scenario that plays out, perhaps time to bite the bullet and kick their development into high gear.
Nichols in Toronto does not excite me in the least, just not a big fan of his body of work.

[OV Argo]

Again we agree. What is happening!?

What - do we all have to be on the same page on everything? ;o) Rest assured Paul - i know that you are a knowledgeable & passionate Argo fan, and i like to hear your CFL/Argo opinions and thoughts.

PULL TOGETHER !!!

[AngeloV]

He is a better passer than MBT as far as I'm concerned .

I wouldn't concede that Nichols is a better passer than MBT. Most of Nichols big plays come from play action which is much easier when you run the ball the way the Bombers do.

[Shatto]

I'll accept that Collaros not coming to the Argos, might not be a PR disaster but I would argue it is a marketing disaster. Imagine trying to sell staying pat, with the QB who had an absolutely terrible won/loss record against trying to sell the team which would have the Grey Cup winning QB. Of course few non CFL followers might know the difference between MBT and Collaros but one could be a marketing gem and the other definitely not.

Though it is unlikely Arbuckle will sign with the Argos; the fact he didn't sign when being wined and dined by Ottawa, does give a slim ray of hope. If Arbuckle signs with Ottawa, the Argos will have to choose between MBT and Nichols. I'm afraid neither option fills me with much confidence

[jerrym]

Arbuckle is seeking a Fajardo type of salary north of $400,000 according to 3downnation. Fajardo is getting $412,000 in hard money this year plus incentives. This goes up to $444,000 in hard money plus incentives next year. It would be hard for the Argos to pay both MBT and Arbuckle and MBT this kind of money.

[gilthethrill]

I wouldn't concede that Nichols is a better passer than MBT. Most of Nichols big plays come from play action which is much easier when you run the ball the way the Bombers do.

Nichols would have been an utter disaster under the Argos one dimensional offence of 2019.

[paulwoods13]

I'd take MBT over Nichols as a passer, a runner and a marketable commodity. But I'm prepared for the possibility we end up with Nichols and neither MBT nor Arbuckle.

[Jon Gonzo]

Arbuckle is seeking a Fajardo type of salary north of $400,000 according to 3downnation. Fajardo is getting $412,000 in hard money this year plus incentives. This goes up to $444,000 in hard money plus incentives next year. It would be hard for the Argos to pay both MBT and Arbuckle and MBT this kind of money.

You simply wouldn't. The game of CFL QB musical chairs has two chairs left, and either Nichols or MBT will not be getting paid as 1st stringers. One team will be lucky to end up with two reliable guys, and I am holding out hope that the Argos can still pull this off. Why not?

[Shatto]

As Gonzo points out, there are 3 QB's out there and only 2 places for a starter.

Perhaps the Argos could take a page out of Hamilton's book --sign Arbuckle and Nichols and put Nichols on the 6 game injury list to start the season and thereby getting substantial relief to the salary cap. If Arbuckle shows he isn't ready to be a full time starter, at least there would be an experienced QB to take over.

Only a thought.

[Shatto]

Just heard Nichols is being released. This give teams an opportunity to talk to him right away and not wait until free agency time.

[AngeloV]

Just heard Nichols is being released. This give teams an opportunity to talk to him right away and not wait until free agency time.

My bet is Ottawa gets Nichols and Arbuckle and MBT end up here. Dominique Davis is a strong runner (and IMO better passer than Streveler) and Nichols with Davis can give LaPo somewhat of what he had in Winnipeg as a 1-2 punch.

[paulwoods13]

According to 3DN, McEwen and J. Campbell have had NFL workouts. Great for them but that is a doomsday scenario for us.

[doubleblue]

According to 3DN, McEwen and J. Campbell have had NFL workouts. Great for them but that is a doomsday scenario for us.

I have thought there has always been a strong possibility of losing McEwen to either the NFL or Calgary this year. Don't know about Campbell, but he has the size etc. if not the experience.

[Shatto]

IMO both McEwen and Campbell are somewhat long shots at making an NFL team. As good as he is and he is very good, McEwen who turns 27 in June is a bit small at 295 for the NFL. However as doubleblue has pointed out, Calgary might be a destination for him. Jackson who has the size at 6'6' and 305 and tremendous potential, is still developing as a OT. With Jackson, any NFL team that signs him will expect him to put on some weight and spend a year or two continuing to develop. But who knows, it may be the case of being in the right place at the right time.

Regarding the QB situation, it may well come down to a bidding war between Toronto and Ottawa for Nichols and or Arbuckle. Last year, Ottawa let Harris walk over money so it will be interesting to see if they are willing to spend big bucks for one of these QB's, who most would agree are not at the same level as Harris.