SJ Green Asks for and is granted release

[matthew]

We have released SJ at his request. What do you think is up?
https://3downnation.com/2020/02/07/argos-grant-receiver-s-j-greens-request-for-release/

[carlos]

Am I getting this right that Walker is unlikely and S.J. now moving on? Holy smoking no receivers Batman. Just kidding, but seriously a big talent loss. Those two both made catches others don't make. Big help to the QB numbers. Would seem something iminent with SJ getting a release with less than a week to go.

Chandler Worthy did look good late last year. Will be interesting to see who emerges as the check down guy.

[argolio]

We have released SJ at his request. What do you think is up?
https://3downnation.com/2020/02/07/argos-grant-receiver-s-j-greens-request-for-release/That he is no longer in the team's plans. Hard to give a soon-to-be 35-year old guy a big contract when his yards per catch decreased five straight years. But maybe another team will.

[paulwoods13]

I would love SJ back for many reasons including his skills and his leadership. But the contract numbers would have to be right, and I don't imagine he's looking for what we will be offering. Walker is going to have to take a big pay cut wherever he signs, IMO.

[Will]

While unfortunate, I didn't expect that S.J would be back.

He brought immediate professionalism and elite skill to a team that badly needed it in the 2017 season.

He performed (in the first half of the 2017 season) nearly as well as any Argo receiver ever has IMO.

[OV Argo]

Good luck to SJ - an all-time great CFL receiver talent with such a catch radius; wonder if he will find another CFL gig still?

However - the offence had to get smarter with pass distribution, even if SJ stayed in a lesser role; cause the past 2 seasons he has had about the worst completion to target ratios in the league = wayyyyyyyyy too many passes his way were not completed (85 receptions out of 138 targets last year, and 83 of 155 the season before) = this is not smart distribution of the football - the ball needs to be better spread around more, or else that highly targeted receiver needs to catch a much higher % of those passes, IMO.

I could see the Argos wanting to not have to pay a lot for an older vet receiver like SJ, even if he was still playing at a pretty high level; Walker might be asked to take a pay-cut too; but the loss of both those guys would be tough to overcome, perhaps, but not necessarily so.

[paulwoods13]

Those are eye-opening stats. How does that percentage compare to other top receivers?

Imo there is zero doubt that Walker will be taking a pay cut, wherever he signs.

[OV Argo]

Those are eye-opening stats. How does that percentage compare to other top receivers?

Imo there is zero doubt that Walker will be taking a pay cut, wherever he signs.

The CFL stats page has been listing receiver targets as well as receptions the past couple of years - not sure they can be taken as 100% accurate (on the targets part) but at least a pretty good indicator; Green has probably the lowest percentage of top 30 or so receivers the past couple of seasons - and not because he drops all sorts of passes - over-reliance and tough coverage cause the D knows it is going to him lots.

Walker is worth top CFL receiver buck$ IMO, but i don't really know how he compares $ wise to other top all-around receivers, and i don't trust reported CFL salaries. Love to see him stay an Argo, but i get if the new regime want to move on due to thinking he is making too much.

Worthy might be able to step-up as a deep threat from the flashes shown late last season; and I believe a couple of NI receivers could pull thru big-time if they were targeted more (particularly Noel & Gittens, but maybe Adjei as the check-down posession guy); and Brescacin would be an interesting pick-up - big-target, but needs to stay healthy. IF both Green & Walker are gone = that really opens up the TC competition, but i think good receivers can be found who would step-up.

[jerrym]

I loved SJ's professionalism and his calm demeanour during adversity but his declining skills due to age meant it was time to let him go.

[Jon Gonzo]

Don't close the door. He may return yet.

[AngeloV]

Good luck to SJ - an all-time great CFL receiver talent with such a catch radius; wonder if he will find another CFL gig still?

However - the offence had to get smarter with pass distribution, even if SJ stayed in a lesser role; cause the past 2 seasons he has had about the worst completion to target ratios in the league = wayyyyyyyyy too many passes his way were not completed (85 receptions out of 138 targets last year, and 83 of 155 the season before) = this is not smart distribution of the football - the ball needs to be better spread around more, or else that highly targeted receiver needs to catch a much higher % of those passes, IMO.


Sometimes target vs completion ratio can be skewed. Green is often thrown to when he is not open because the QB believes he has the best chance of winning 50/50 ball. A lot of other receivers ratio looks way better because they are often the check down receivers or play wide side where coverage is softer.

[OV Argo]

Sometimes target vs completion ratio can be skewed. Green is often thrown to when he is not open because the QB believes he has the best chance of winning 50/50 ball. A lot of other receivers ratio looks way better because they are often the check down receivers or play wide side where coverage is softer.


Yes- that stat does not tell the total picture; however - the offensive thinking was plain wrong, obviously, if they thought SJ would come up with all those throws when somewhere in the neighborhood of 125 pass attempts to him in the past 2 seasons were no good = did not work out near good enough / totally unacceptable. IMO

CFL QBs trying to make difficult, long throws to the wide-side WR or slot often skip off the ground low or else are over-thrown = can make their ratio look not so good.

[Mightygoose]

Green lands in Seattle

https://www.xflnewshub.com/xfl-news/seattle-dragons-add-cfl-legend-wr-sj-green/

Contract runs until May 31 so it's always possible he comes back depending on our cap situation.

Now I have a team to follow in the upstart league.

[Mightygoose]

Green and Trestman reunited in Tampa Bay

https://www.tsn.ca/marc-trestman-s-tampa-bay-vipers-acquire-wr-s-j-green-1.1444977

I don't believe SJ played last weekend. Still he would be on the roster of 1 quarter of XFL teams already

[gilthethrill]

Nik Lewis was on Rod Peterson recently. He said SJ signed for 6 figures in the XFL and feels more players will follow...kind of painted a bleak picture for the CFL. Thats pretty good coin for what will now be a maximum 7 game season for the CFL great..

[Argo57]

Nik Lewis was on Rod Peterson recently. He said SJ signed for 6 figures in the XFL and feels more players will follow...kind of painted a bleak picture for the CFL. Thats pretty good coin for what will now be a maximum 7 game season for the CFL great..

Good coin for a few games played, an option many upper level CFL free agents may explore if this league survives.
Another possible talent drain could be the NFL’s proposal to expand each teams practice roster from 10 to 14 players per team (128 fewer players available for the CFL), $189,000 USD$ per practice roster player. (As per Dave Naylor).

[paulwoods13]

Good coin for a few games played, an option many upper level CFL free agents may explore if this league survives.
Another possible talent drain could be the NFL’s proposal to expand each teams practice roster from 10 to 14 players per team (128 fewer players available for the CFL), $189,000 USD$ per practice roster player. (As per Dave Naylor).

The NFL's proposal (which has yet to be accepted by the NFLPA) has far greater potential to damage the CFL IMO. Not just more practice roster players, but also an expansion of NFL rosters and game rosters. At least 200 players who would otherwise be floating around will be tied up if that goes through. And the pay discrepancy gets even worse than it already was. Ryan Hunter, by being on the Chiefs' practice roster for most of this past season, earned more than all but a handful of CFL players.

[argolio]

Nik Lewis was on Rod Peterson recently. He said SJ signed for 6 figures in the XFL and feels more players will follow...kind of painted a bleak picture for the CFL. Thats pretty good coin for what will now be a maximum 7 game season for the CFL great..That's for one player, if it's even true. Nik Lewis isn't exactly a trusted source.

[OV Argo]

The NFL's proposal (which has yet to be accepted by the NFLPA) has far greater potential to damage the CFL IMO. Not just more practice roster players, but also an expansion of NFL rosters and game rosters. At least 200 players who would otherwise be floating around will be tied up if that goes through. And the pay discrepancy gets even worse than it already was. Ryan Hunter, by being on the Chiefs' practice roster for most of this past season, earned more than all but a handful of CFL players.

Did NFL PR money go way up recently ? Hunter did dress and play in at least one game, so that would be a big pay bump. but straight NFL PR money on the season (if you were there every game) is more than 200 grand now ??? The post above says Naylor reports their proposed new, expanded PR would pay 189 grand (U$ = over 200 Canadian), but that is not in place yet ?

[argolio]

Did NFL PR money go way up recently ? Hunter did dress and play in at least one game, so that would be a big pay bump. but straight NFL PR money on the season (if you were there every game) is more than 200 grand now ??? The post above says Naylor reports their proposed new, expanded PR would pay 189 grand (U$ = over 200 Canadian), but that is not in place yet ?Not in place yet, but that's the latest proposal by the league which would come into effect this year if the union agrees. It was $136k last season.

[Argo57]

Did NFL PR money go way up recently ? Hunter did dress and play in at least one game, so that would be a big pay bump. but straight NFL PR money on the season (if you were there every game) is more than 200 grand now ??? The post above says Naylor reports their proposed new, expanded PR would pay 189 grand (U$ = over 200 Canadian), but that is not in place yet ?

Just looked it up on Sporting News.
2019 NFL practice roster salary.
Minimum Salary $8,000/week ($136,000 USD$) minimum for a player that stayed on the roster for the whole season.
”Per the current CBA there is no cap on the amount practice squad players can receive”.

[OV Argo]

Just looked it up on Sporting News.
2019 NFL practice roster salary.
Minimum Salary $8,000/week ($136,000 USD$) minimum for a player that stayed on the roster for the whole season.
”Per the current CBA there is no cap on the amount practice squad players can receive”.


So, a player who just sits on the PR ALL season would make 136K or more; a few might stick on the PR most of the season and maybe even get to dress for a game or two (where you make way more money); but PRs evolve and change over a season and players can be there a bit and then be cut, and maybe brought back later; some might last on the PR for a half season or less. Not exactly a guaranteed 136K, but a foot in a lucrative door.

[ArgoZ]

Nik Lewis was on Rod Peterson recently. He said SJ signed for 6 figures in the XFL and feels more players will follow...kind of painted a bleak picture for the CFL. Thats pretty good coin for what will now be a maximum 7 game season for the CFL great..

I don’t believe this based on math and common sense. As you said, 7 games left in the season and SJ spent today on the sidelines. That’s a minimum 12-15 thousand USD a game, depending on what he got to ride the bench this week. No flipping way they are paying that.

What is more likely is that if SJ played in and won all 10 XFL games, his total $70 000 salary, including playing and win bonuses, would equal close $100 000 Cdn.

[AngeloV]

I have a bad feeling about SJ in the XFL. He's obviously older now, and not as fact or quick as he used to be. Add in the fact that he has played the last 10 years with the benefit of a running start which isn't allowed down there, and this could be a disaster for him. I hope I'm wrong, but if not, some people will think that the quality of player down there is better than it is up here.

[OV Argo]

I have a bad feeling about SJ in the XFL. He's obviously older now, and not as fact or quick as he used to be. Add in the fact that he has played the last 10 years with the benefit of a running start which isn't allowed down there, and this could be a disaster for him. I hope I'm wrong, but if not, some people will think that the quality of player down there is better than it is up here.

Speed or quicks was never a big part of SJ Green's receiver skill-set (IMO); he a big target, with a large catch radius, with very good hands and the ability to make tough or circus catches; and if a pro offensive coach can't grasp this and would just prefer 40 times to rate their receivers, then they are morons or myopics, IMO. Some XFL HC not wanting to deploy an SJ Green = big deal and next to meaningless to me in terms of judging receiver talent.

I see tons of dropped passes in watching NFL lately, and IMO this is unacceptable and the fault of some coaches not getting that smart route running and very good hands particularly are very important receiver qualities and often preferable to fast guys with brick hands; and IMO if there is one position group where some top CFL talent is on par with or superior to some NFL starters, it would be receiver; and given that a lot of NFL teams still have a big TE as a key receiver - that is not all about speed obviously; a smart offence will have a diverse receiving corps, with some speedsters but also some size, toughness, smart route running and most importantly great hands.

[doubleblue]

I have a bad feeling about SJ in the XFL. He's obviously older now, and not as fact or quick as he used to be. Add in the fact that he has played the last 10 years with the benefit of a running start which isn't allowed down there, and this could be a disaster for him. I hope I'm wrong, but if not, some people will think that the quality of player down there is better than it is up here.

Good point.