Which team is best in CFL history?

[Will]

Difficult to argue with the 1997 Argos (https://3downnation.com/2020/05/24/which-team-is-the-best-in-cfl-history) although fans of the Eskimos certainly would try.

I've been watching a few Argo games from that period on You Tube and you could perhaps make the argument that the 1983 or 1991 teams were a little more exciting to watch, the precision and ease in which Flutie and Company broke down opponents is notable.

[OV Argo]

97 Argos - 660 points scored vs. 327 given up = for a differential of +333 in 18 games = that is insane; so much talent on that team; but the 91 Argo team had arguably a more explosive offence (IMO)

68 Ottawa Rough Riders - amazing all-star laden roster. with offensive fire-power arguably way ahead of that era of CFL ball

82 Esks - final year of the 5 year dynasty with Warren Moon in his prime, surrounded by talent all over the roster


Not sure there is one CFL team that I could vote for as all-time best; but probably between those 3 ?

[AngeloV]

'81 Esks went 16-1-1 including post season. Even though they were on the ropes against 5-11 Ottawa in the Grey Cup, hard to argue against a team that only lost once.

[OV Argo]

'81 Esks went 16-1-1 including post season. Even though they were on the ropes against 5-11 Ottawa in the Grey Cup, hard to argue against a team that only lost once.


Yeah, maybe; but could you have pictured that 97 Argo team folding and almost losing to the Riders in that GC?

[AngeloV]

Yeah, maybe; but could you have pictured that 97 Argo team folding and almost losing to the Riders in that GC?

True enough. I still think at the end of the day, wins and losses are all that really matter, and that team had the best winning percentage.

[paulwoods13]

Yeah, maybe; but could you have pictured that 97 Argo team folding and almost losing to the Riders in that GC?

I don't think anyone pictured the 1981 Eskimos being down 20-1 to a pretty bad team in the Grey Cup, until it happened. As we all know, games don't always go as they are expected to. There's no way of knowing whether Flutie et al might have lost to the 1997 equivalent of the '81 Riders. Seems unlikely, but it also seemed unlikely Moon et al would come so close to losing to Ottawa. IMO the 1997 Argonauts were probably the most talent-laden team of all time (surpassed perhaps by 1995 Baltimore, but they had the advantage of no roster restrictions), and their dominating results showed that. And yet . . . they needed a magical play from Flutie to Pinball in the final minute to avoid losing the Eastern Final at home. The 1981 Eskimos, meanwhile, faced the pressure of trying to become the first team to win four in a row, against a team that it would have been very easy to take lightly. Difficult to choose which was the best of all time, especially since there are differences like roster size and import ratio that make it difficult to compare directly.

[Will]

The 1997 season was the first time that a western team crossed over. The Argos (15-3) and the Alouettes (13-5) were actually better than the 1 and 2 teams in the west Eskimos (12-6) and the Stampeders (10-8), which is pretty rare. The Argos did benefit from weak teams in Winnipeg (4-14) and Hamilton (2-16), but did go 5-2 against the Als, Eskimos and Stampeders combined.

[OV Argo]

I don't think anyone pictured the 1981 Eskimos being down 20-1 to a pretty bad team in the Grey Cup, until it happened. As we all know, games don't always go as they are expected to. There's no way of knowing whether Flutie et al might have lost to the 1997 equivalent of the '81 Riders. Seems unlikely, but it also seemed unlikely Moon et al would come so close to losing to Ottawa. IMO the 1997 Argonauts were probably the most talent-laden team of all time (surpassed perhaps by 1995 Baltimore, but they had the advantage of no roster restrictions), and their dominating results showed that. And yet . . . they needed a magical play from Flutie to Pinball in the final minute to avoid losing the Eastern Final at home. The 1981 Eskimos, meanwhile, faced the pressure of trying to become the first team to win four in a row, against a team that it would have been very easy to take lightly. Difficult to choose which was the best of all time, especially since there are differences like roster size and import ratio that make it difficult to compare directly.


I'd argue the 68 Ottawa Rough Riders were probably the most talent laden team of all-time: filled with all-stars (guys who made CFL all-star then or in their careers) - including the best QB of all-time, plus 2 RBs who went on to be NFL starters (Bo Scott & Vic Washington), 2 blazing fast deep threat receivers (Whit Tucker, Margene Adkins), and experience all over the roster with HOF D players like Gene Gaines, Ken Lehmann, Don Sutherin & Jerry Campbell. They blew away a pretty talented Argo team by 20 points in a 2 game total points East Final; and unlike the 81 Esks or 97 Argos, they did not get to face an average to questionable team in the GC, as they beat a talent laden Stamps team (nucleus of which went on to the 70 & 71 GC games).

The 95 Stallions were an outstanding team that got gifted a whole bunch of proven, experienced CFL players, plus an all-time winning HC in the Don, but IMO they were woefully average to weak at one large position group - receiver - (good thing they had Tracy Ham & Mike Pringle to make up for it on offence), and that just doesn't do for an all-time talent roster IMO. The Stamps with Flutie had beat them in the regular season and if not for a gael force wind bowl in the GC probably would have beat them again IMO.

[OV Argo]

True enough. I still think at the end of the day, wins and losses are all that really matter, and that team had the best winning percentage.


I'd argue best regular season win percentage must / NEEDS to be followed up by play-off performance, not barely squeaking by a 5-11 team QB'd by an inexperienced JC Watts - to qualify for an all-time great team; the next season the Esks had mostly the same roster (with another year of experience), and Moon likely improved & smarter, and in the GC they beat up a strong Argo team (that won the GC the next season) = now that is more like an all-time great team IMO.

[bannedforlife]

1968 Ottawa Rough Riders

https://i.imgur.com/FLHbgRc.jpg

1981 Edmonton Eskimos
(I didn't know Wilkie was from Radar's hometown)

https://i.imgur.com/9OjGL32.jpg

[Stevoman]

The 1997 Argonauts are not only the best football team in CFL history but the best in all of football history! Yeah, I said it and I almost believe it!

[Will]

I'd argue the 68 Ottawa Rough Riders were probably the most talent laden team of all-time: filled with all-stars (guys who made CFL all-star then or in their careers) - including the best QB of all-time, plus 2 RBs who went on to be NFL starters (Bo Scott & Vic Washington), 2 blazing fast deep threat receivers (Whit Tucker, Margene Adkins), and experience all over the roster with HOF D players like Gene Gaines, Ken Lehmann, Don Sutherin & Jerry Campbell. They blew away a pretty talented Argo team by 20 points in a 2 game total points East Final; and unlike the 81 Esks or 97 Argos, they did not get to face an average to questionable team in the GC, as they beat a talent laden Stamps team (nucleus of which went on to the 70 & 71 GC games).

The 95 Stallions were an outstanding team that got gifted a whole bunch of proven, experienced CFL players, plus an all-time winning HC in the Don, but IMO they were woefully average to weak at one large position group - receiver - (good thing they had Tracy Ham & Mike Pringle to make up for it on offence), and that just doesn't do for an all-time talent roster IMO. The Stamps with Flutie had beat them in the regular season and if not for a gael force wind bowl in the GC probably would have beat them again IMO.

Chris Armstrong was good, but other than that you're right, however with Pringle and Ham they didn't have to be strong at receiver.

Not only did trying to put Ham in a 'run & shoot' offence sink the 1993 Argos chances, but not having several capable runners behind him also hurt. Pinball couldn't do it himself.

[OV Argo]

One team not often mentioned in these all-time best CFL discussions: the 84 GC Champ Bombers - won the West semi by 35 points, the West final by 17 points and the GC by 30 points !!!

The number of CFL all-stars, award winners and top stat players on that roster / line-up was/is amazing.

Tom Clements, Willard Reaves (both have won CFL MOP), 4 receivers with CFL 1,000 yard receiving seasons on their resumes (Poplawksi, Murphy, House, Boyd); O-line = one time all-star (all CFL or Conference) - Walby, Bonk, Bastaja, Bauer (the first 2 each won O-lineman of the year in their CFL careers).

On D - a whole bunch of all-stars as well including Tyrone Jones who won CFL D player of the year.


Talent laden - up there with the 68 Ottawa , 82 Esks, and 97 Argo teams - and maybe top of the list in pure & overall talent ?

[Will]

The 1991 Argos team was pretty talented too:
- Hall of Fame QB (Matt Dunigan)
- 6 receivers who would get 1,000 at some point (Pinball, Rocket, Masotti, Williams, Smith, Boyd)
- Hall of Famer Dan Ferrone w/ Schultz, Beckstead, Pruenster on the line (all-star appearances)
- Hall of Fame DT Rodney Harding, Brian Warren and Mike Campbell each got 10+ sacks and Harold Hallman was no slouch either
- Very good LB's: Gaines and Moen
- Talented secondary: Brazley, Pleasant, Berry and Don Wilson

The '91 offence probably wasn't as consistent but it was a damned good team chalk full of talent.

[OV Argo]

The 1991 Argos team was pretty talented too:
- Hall of Fame QB (Matt Dunigan)
- 6 receivers who would get 1,000 at some point (Pinball, Rocket, Masotti, Williams, Smith, Boyd)
- Hall of Famer Dan Ferrone w/ Schultz, Beckstead, Pruenster on the line (all-star appearances)
- Hall of Fame DT Rodney Harding, Brian Warren and Mike Campbell each got 10+ sacks and Harold Hallman was no slouch either
- Very good LB's: Gaines and Moen
- Talented secondary: Brazley, Pleasant, Berry and Don Wilson

The '91 offence probably wasn't as consistent but it was a damned good team chalk full of talent.\

Yep = 91 team is up there with 97, IMO, for all-time Argo talented team. BTW (for those with much better Argo memory) - what was the order of operations or time frame with both David Williams & Jeff Boyd appearing in that Argo receiving corps - don't think they were ever in the same line-up ?

[Will]

David Williams was acquired in late-September, but I think you're right that Boyd and Williams would've never appeared in the same lineup. The receiving corps late in the season was likely Masotti, Williams, Smith and Ismail with Clemons and Smellie in the backfield. Boyd did, however, I think remain on the roster (in some fashion) through the Grey Cup.

[shayman]

The Globe ran a simulated playoff between the all time best Jays and Expos teams (won by the 94 Expos over the 93 Blue Jays - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-1994-montreal-expos-beat-93-blue-jays-to-claim-title-of-canadas-best/ )

Wouldn't it be fun to see a simulated season between each team's all-time best. 97 Argos, 68 Rough Riders, 82 Esks, 95 Stallions, etc. (And hey, throw in the 1936 Grey Cup Champion Sarnia Imperials and other oddballs to make it interesting.)

[Mike Hogan]

One thing overlooked often about the '91 team was how good the special teams were. Lance Chomyc was 55/65 (85%), Hank Ilesic averaged 44.4 yards per punt with an average hang time of I believe 3 minutes and 47 seconds, Chris Gaines was likely the first player I focused in on on coverage teams in terms of pure entertainment, and the return game? Think about this...Pinball Clemons was the lesser of two evils for opponents with the Rocket back there. I can't think of a team that had a one-two punch that was even close to that. For arguments sake, the Eskimos dynasty was the better team for a longer period, but in a one game contest I'll take the '97 Argos, though they would/could/should have lost the East Final to Montreal. Terry Baker missed three FGs that day.

[argolio]

81 Esks and 97 Argos were the most dominant based on point differential, which were almost identical when you account for 16 vs 18 game seasons. And sure, Edmonton crapped the bed in the first half of the Grey Cup, but instead of folding they destroyed Ottawa 25-3 in the second half to get the win.

My honourable mentions go to the 1995 Stallions for winning 13 straight to close the season, and the 2011 Lions for coming back from a 1-6 start. Doubt those two will ever be repeated.

Unique 2011 stat: both of Paul McCallum's pass attempts went for interceptions, for a passer rating of -414.6. That's gotta be a record.


Hank Ilesic averaged 44.4 yards per punt with an average hang time of I believe 3 minutes and 47 secondslol!

[Will]

The Globe ran a simulated playoff between the all time best Jays and Expos teams (won by the 94 Expos over the 93 Blue Jays - https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-1994-montreal-expos-beat-93-blue-jays-to-claim-title-of-canadas-best/ )

Wouldn't it be fun to see a simulated season between each team's all-time best. 97 Argos, 68 Rough Riders, 82 Esks, 95 Stallions, etc. (And hey, throw in the 1936 Grey Cup Champion Sarnia Imperials and other oddballs to make it interesting.)

You may be interested in this Cold Snap (http://coldsnap.cfl-network.ca/?fbclid=IwAR0l8H-KuSHfFHJ42YfU4CRnTmMe3JHI6NETAk7FoZRA3EY8b10lt9sa5 9g) simulation that some folks are doing right now. While the game doesn't yet include all the teams you mentioned the simulation does include several Grey Cup champions.

[Will]

Also, as much as we won't want to admit it as Argo fans, the '67 Ticat team was pretty dominant over the 2nd half of their season. They didn't allow a TD for the longest time. However, it is difficult to compare pre-Warren teams to post-Warren teams.

[Will]

One thing overlooked often about the '91 team was how good the special teams were. Lance Chomyc was 55/65 (85%), Hank Ilesic averaged 44.4 yards per punt with an average hang time of I believe 3 minutes and 47 seconds, Chris Gaines was likely the first player I focused in on on coverage teams in terms of pure entertainment, and the return game? Think about this...Pinball Clemons was the lesser of two evils for opponents with the Rocket back there. I can't think of a team that had a one-two punch that was even close to that. For arguments sake, the Eskimos dynasty was the better team for a longer period, but in a one game contest I'll take the '97 Argos, though they would/could/should have lost the East Final to Montreal. Terry Baker missed three FGs that day.

There are a few games from 1991 where the offence flat out struggled. For example, on July 25, 1991 the Argos beat Winnipeg 30-16 but were outgained 458-275, but Winnipeg committed ten turnovers. There was a 25-24 win over Ottawa later in the year where it was the defence who was a big reason the Argos won the game.

You raise a good point about '97. I think a few of Baker's misses were from in close too.

[argolio]

Also, as much as we won't want to admit it as Argo fans, the '67 Ticat team was pretty dominant over the 2nd half of their season. They didn't allow a TD for the longest time. However, it is difficult to compare pre-Warren teams to post-Warren teams.That's another good argument -- when did "the modern era" begin? Some say 1954 when the amateur/semi-pro ORFU stopped competing for the Grey Cup. Or 58 when the CFL name was adopted. Or even 1981 when the Eastern and Western Conferences fully merged into one, complete league, and the the CFL moved to a fully interlocking schedule. In terms of the style of football being played, your definition works pretty well.

67 Ticats? Never heard of them. :p

[shayman]

You may be interested in this Cold Snap (http://coldsnap.cfl-network.ca/?fbclid=IwAR0l8H-KuSHfFHJ42YfU4CRnTmMe3JHI6NETAk7FoZRA3EY8b10lt9sa5 9g) simulation that some folks are doing right now. While the game doesn't yet include all the teams you mentioned the simulation does include several Grey Cup champions.

Cool, thanks! I'll keep an eye on it.

When the Globe wrote up their Strat-o-Matic playoff semi-final series between the 1993 Blue Jays and the 1985 Blue Jays - a four game sweep for the 1993 Jays - I was disappointed that Tony Fernandez never grounded out to Tony Fernandez. That would have caused some interesting sportswriting.

[OV Argo]

Also, as much as we won't want to admit it as Argo fans, the '67 Ticat team was pretty dominant over the 2nd half of their season. They didn't allow a TD for the longest time. However, it is difficult to compare pre-Warren teams to post-Warren teams.


67 Ticats D is up there with best CFL defence of all-time; however, their offence was pretty average (and of course more run focused in those days).

[OV Argo]

The 1991 Argos team was pretty talented too:
- Hall of Fame QB (Matt Dunigan)
- 6 receivers who would get 1,000 at some point (Pinball, Rocket, Masotti, Williams, Smith, Boyd)
- Hall of Famer Dan Ferrone w/ Schultz, Beckstead, Pruenster on the line (all-star appearances)
- Hall of Fame DT Rodney Harding, Brian Warren and Mike Campbell each got 10+ sacks and Harold Hallman was no slouch either
- Very good LB's: Gaines and Moen
- Talented secondary: Brazley, Pleasant, Berry and Don Wilson

The '91 offence probably wasn't as consistent but it was a damned good team chalk full of talent.


Warren & Mike Campbell put up best of career type seasons for that 91 Argo team; Hallman & Harding (missed some of that season) were a really strong DT pair; Gaines flanked by Moen & Ford = outstanding LB crew; super talent in that secondary too.

Mostly a pass offence (though Foggie ran a lot when he played for Dunigan and ended up leading the team in rushing), but Pinball, the Rocket and Smellie all had very good yards/carry averages when they got hand-off carries. What speed in that receiving corps with the Rocket and an emerging Masotti.

[Will]

The 1988 team had they proceeded to their logical conclusion (the Grey Cup) might slide into the conversation for best Argo team, but alas they lost in the east final.