Vote for your favorite Argo Grey Cup

[Will]

Needless to say, but the pre-1983 ones (perhaps with the exception of the Mud Bowl) will have tremendous difficulty in gaining traction IMO.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not to brag but we have enough Championships we needed a play-in game <br><br>Preview the bracket/matchups and videos » <a href="https://t.co/AOk5XooDRe">https://t.co/AOk5XooDRe</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GCUnite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GCUnite</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PullTogether?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PullTogether</a> <a href="https://t.co/BV0Cl6zD9y">pic.twitter.com/BV0Cl6zD9y</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1327379489366618116?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Will]

I note that a second round showdown between the 1991 and 1997 Grey Cup victories is looming.

[OV Argo]

83 - because it broke the long, suffering drought. Also was a close battle.

[Argo57]

Any Argonaut World Championship brings joy to my life but I’m with OV and would select the 1983 win, first Toronto team in my lifetime to win a title.👍

[Wobbler]

I just watched the '83 game, which I don't think I'd seen before. It was fun to see the relatively subtle ways the game has changed (no instant replay, plenty of missed penalties, relatively quick play calls, mobile QBs) and the many ways the rest of the world has changed (as illustrated by the TV commercials and broadcast technology). My biggest surprise was how little I missed the on-screen first down line, down-and-distance, time remaining, and score.

Fun game, too. I knew that the Argos won but didn't realize it happened despite crummy performances by Holloway and Ilesic.

Still, 2017 gets my vote. I'm sure that I'm feeling some recency bias, but that game had everything.

[ArgoZ]

1996. Such a wonderful and memorable night. Big plays on both sides.

[Will]

The first match-up is a "play-in" and is the 1933 vs 1946 game. The 1933 game saw the Argos beat the Sarnia Imperials 4-3 (!) and the 1946 game saw the Argos beat the Bombers 28-6. The 1933 game was played on Dec. 9/33.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Who’s your early favourite to win our Argos Grey Cup Showdown? <br><br>Voting opens tomorrow with our play-in matchup (1933 vs. 1946)<br><br>Details » <a href="https://t.co/AOk5Xo72sE">https://t.co/AOk5Xo72sE</a> <a href="https://t.co/wXgS3RpDvz">pic.twitter.com/wXgS3RpDvz</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1327765758781255680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[OV Argo]

1996. Such a wonderful and memorable night. Big plays on both sides.


Exciting game and the first of back-to-back GC wins for the Argos ... but, they almost lost that game and the Flutie fumble non-call was very questionable to help get the win.

And GCs played in iffy to $hitty weather can be part of the deal for both teams, but I much prefer a big game played on a clean, dry track without gale force winds or snow squalls; still pi$$ed-off royally that the 95 GC played in a wind tunnel worked out for the Stallions to get to take home the GC (made me puke) - the Stumps had beat them in the regular season.

[Will]

I just watched the '83 game, which I don't think I'd seen before. It was fun to see the relatively subtle ways the game has changed (no instant replay, plenty of missed penalties, relatively quick play calls, mobile QBs) and the many ways the rest of the world has changed (as illustrated by the TV commercials and broadcast technology). My biggest surprise was how little I missed the on-screen first down line, down-and-distance, time remaining, and score.

Fun game, too. I knew that the Argos won but didn't realize it happened despite crummy performances by Holloway and Ilesic.

Still, 2017 gets my vote. I'm sure that I'm feeling some recency bias, but that game had everything.

Holloway had been battling the flu. I'm not sure which version you watched, but much of the pre-game discussion centered on the fact that the Argos with Holloway and Barnes had a much better tandem at QB as opposed to BC who had Dewalt and Paopao. Ilesic's specialty was always as a punter, and by 1985 the Argos brought in Lance Chomyc to handle FG duties.

[OV Argo]

Holloway had been battling the flu. I'm not sure which version you watched, but much of the pre-game discussion centered on the fact that the Argos with Holloway and Barnes had a much better tandem at QB as opposed to BC who had Dewalt and Paopao. Ilesic's specialty was always as a punter, and by 1985 the Argos brought in Lance Chomyc to handle FG duties.


Hank basically $ucked as a FG kicker and CFL teams then just had not figured out how important an accurate FG kicker can be in favor of going with dual kickers. That BC team did evolve and get better (best record in the league in 84 and won the 85 GC), with Dewalt playing great at QB and a tough D manned by a lot of good Canadian talent.

[Will]

Dewalt never quite recovered when Mervyn Fernandez went to the NFL.

[Wobbler]

I'm not sure which version you watched, but much of the pre-game discussion centered on the fact that the Argos with Holloway and Barnes had a much better tandem at QB as opposed to BC who had Dewalt and Paopao. Ilesic's specialty was always as a punter, and by 1985 the Argos brought in Lance Chomyc to handle FG duties.
I watched this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aieIXJYDg5E), which does include pre-game discussion of the backup QBs. I had no idea that Holloway was sick at the time, though; thanks!

[paulwoods13]

I had no idea that Holloway was sick at the time, though; thanks!

Unbeknownst to Williams or anyone outside the Argo inner circle, Holloway had been ill for more than a week. He always vomited, presumably from nerves, before each game, but this was much worse. “I was sick as a dog during the Eastern Final – the flu and pneumonia,” he says. “Puking every other play. I couldn’t keep anything down. It continued on to the Grey Cup. We kept that quiet.”


Lots more in Bouncing Back . . .

[Will]

Are people intending to vote for their favourite Grey Cup or the best Argos team? I got to figure that 1997 is the best Argos team, however favourite Grey Cup may be a whole different story.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Dewalt never quite recovered when Mervyn Fernandez went to the NFL.
Dewalt never recovered from his foot injury in 1984. He also was a victim of Joe Galat and Don Mathews ego battle that ensued during the 86/87 seasons.
Dewalt had to take legal action for non-payment of a $50000 signing bonus that Bob Ackles had negotiated before he abruptly left for the NFL. Galat tried to avoid payment but the bridge was burned.
He was another player forced out of the league way too soon.

[OV Argo]

Dewalt never recovered from his foot injury in 1984. He also was a victim of Joe Galat and Don Mathews ego battle that ensued during the 86/87 seasons.
Dewalt had to take legal action for non-payment of a $50000 signing bonus that Bob Ackles had negotiated before he abruptly left for the NFL. Galat tried to avoid payment but the bridge was burned.
He was another player forced out of the league way too soon.

Dewalt hung around as Lions starter right thru 87, including leading them to a GC win in 85, so he was hardly washed-up after a foot injury in 84.

[AngeloV]

For me, definitely '83 is my favourite. Being born in '68 the year after the last Leafs cup win, it was the first Toronto pro sports championship in my lifetime, so it will always be the most special to me.

[Will]

Anyone else consider the '96 team advancing over the '83 team to be a bit of an upset?

[Wobbler]

If people are voting based on entertainment value rather than "importance", then no - I don't think that was an upset.

Thanks to recency bias and some younger voters, I think it'll come down to 2012 vs. 2017 with the latter coming out on top. No complaint from me. :)

[ArgoGabe22]

Just curious, what was "better' in your eyes, 96 or 97? Does the entertainment factor with the snow, controversy beat out a back to back win?

1950 and 52 are still memorable Grey Cup wins that fans are somewhat still familiar with, despite never witnessing it. However, anything before then never stood a chance. Does anyone know anything about the 1921 win?

[Wobbler]

IMO '96 was easily a better game than '97. I'm a fan of inclement weather, and it was a much closer and more dramatic game. I enjoyed watching Flutie demolish the Riders, of course, but it was over early in the third quarter.

[jerrym]

Does anyone know anything about the 1921 win?

Basically it was the Lionel Conacher game. Incidentally he's in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame, the Hockey Hall of Fame and twice finished second for the Hart Trophy as MVP, the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame, the Lacrosse Hall of Fame, Ontario Sports Hall of Fame as well as Canadian male athlete of the year with the award now named after him, Canadian Athlete of the Half Century in 1950, played professional baseball, won the Canadian amateur professional wrestling championship when it was a sport and also was a boxer. As the video at the beginning of the thread mentions, he left the Grey Cup game after three quarters to play a hockey game. He had already salted away the Argos 23-0 victory.



Conacher moved to the senior level in 1920 with the Toronto Rugby Club where his team again won the ORFU championship, but lost the eastern semifinal to the Toronto Argonauts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Argonauts) of the Interprovincial Rugby Football Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_League_East_Division) (IRFU). His play impressed the Argonauts, who signed him for the 1921 season.[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Conacher#cite_note-PFRA-16) In his first game with the Argonauts, he scored 23 of the team's 27 points, and led the IRFU in scoring, accounting for 14 touchdowns and 90 of his team's 167 points as they went undefeated in six games.[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Conacher#cite_note-PFRA-16) The Argonauts won the eastern championship, and faced the Edmonton Eskimos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton_Elks) (renamed Edmonton 'Elks' in 1922) in the first east-west Grey Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Cup) championship in Canadian history. Conacher rushed for 211 yards and scored 15 points in Toronto's 23–0 victory to claim the national title.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Conacher

[AngeloV]

To me, the '97 team was the best in my life time, but I will chose the '83 Grey Cup as the best. Not just because it was the first Toronto sports championship since 1967, but because it was truly a battle of the best 2 teams in the league throughout that whole season, and the game was won on a last minute TD. It's rare these days to see the best teams over an entire season also meet in the championship game in any sport.

I can't speak of any teams or championships that occurred before my time of watching and understanding what I was watching.

[Stevoman]

1997 Argonauts was the best football team I've ever seen in any league in my life time.
1996 was the most entertaining Grey Cup
2017 is the most meaningful Grey Cup

[paulwoods13]

I did not vote, but this got me thinking about how I would rate the seven Grey Cup wins I have seen (and the one GC loss) in the past forty years. Here's how I rank them:

8. 1997. Greatest Argo team ever, but the game was not close or particularly exciting. Foregone conclusion, really.
7. 2004. Loved the team and the way it came together, but not much stands out in my memory about the game.
6. 2012. Fantastic seeing our team win at home in the 100th, but there was no tension in the second half since we were so far ahead.
5. 1987. Despite our loss, IMO this was the greatest Grey Cup game ever played so it deserves to be ranked near the top.
4. 1996. Amazing winter scenes, super fun to win in our enemy's stadium, gigantic plays by both teams, tainted somewhat by the non-fumble call.
3. 1991. The most amazing year in the history of the Argos, and the game was outstanding as well. But the competition gets really tough at this point.
2. 2017. Nothing can top the sheer, totally unexpected joy sparked by Vaughn's TD and Black's INT, and winning when it seemed hopeless.
1. 1983. Top spot has to go to ending a 31-year drought in the opponent's stadium, in a game we trailed almost all the way, with our backup QB pulling it out for us.

[Will]

The Argos have won 6 Grey Cups (1991, 1996, 1997, 2004, 2012, 2017) in my lifetime, but I do not remember the 1991 game at all. My father and grandfather were most likely watching but whether I watched with them is unknown. I don't recall enough of the '96 and '97 game either. The 2012 game was iconic because it was at home, it was the 100th and you felt like the city gave a shit about the Argos for a week.

2017 was so special because it was so sudden the circumstances in which the Argos won that game. When Matt Black intercepted that pass, I went nuts of course, but even as I was cheering I was asking myself "did the Argos really just win the Grey Cup?"

[Wobbler]

Agreed, Will.

I watched the 2017 GC with a Spanish friend who played football but was only vaguely familiar with "American Football". Explaining the game - and the impact of the weather - was fun, but in the final minutes I forgot where I was and just enjoyed the crazy, wonderful, result.

[Argo57]

I did not vote, but this got me thinking about how I would rate the seven Grey Cup wins I have seen (and the one GC loss) in the past forty years. Here's how I rank them:

8. 1997. Greatest Argo team ever, but the game was not close or particularly exciting. Foregone conclusion, really.
7. 2004. Loved the team and the way it came together, but not much stands out in my memory about the game.
6. 2012. Fantastic seeing our team win at home in the 100th, but there was no tension in the second half since we were so far ahead.
5. 1987. Despite our loss, IMO this was the greatest Grey Cup game ever played so it deserves to be ranked near the top.
4. 1996. Amazing winter scenes, super fun to win in our enemy's stadium, gigantic plays by both teams, tainted somewhat by the non-fumble call.
3. 1991. The most amazing year in the history of the Argos, and the game was outstanding as well. But the competition gets really tough at this point.
2. 2017. Nothing can top the sheer, totally unexpected joy sparked by Vaughn's TD and Black's INT, and winning when it seemed hopeless.
1. 1983. Top spot has to go to ending a 31-year drought in the opponent's stadium, in a game we trailed almost all the way, with our backup QB pulling it out for us.

Pretty well summed up, I was slumped in my chair watching the 2017 Grey Cup, admittedly I thought the Argonauts were done until Laing forced the fumble.
Argonauts are 7-2 in Grey Cups during my lifetime with Edmonton supplying the 2 losses (1982, 1987).

[Will]

In the hoopla of it all, it wasn't until a few hours after the 2017 game ended that I asked my friend who had actually gotten in the interception.

[jerrym]

My choice is 1996.

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Argos Grey Cup Showdown Final 🏆<br><br>The comeback in the snow vs. the 100th at home<br><br>2017 🆚 2012</p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1330179658139234306?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Will]

Not surprising (recency bias)


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The people have spoken. <br><br>The 2017 Grey Cup is our Champion of Champions 🏆 <a href="https://t.co/DRxqBCYdIB">pic.twitter.com/DRxqBCYdIB</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1330551784549572608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>