Former Argos Home Rogers Centre may be demolished

[jerrym]

The Argos former home, Rogers Centre, may be demolished as Rogers Communications considers the future playing site for the Blue Jays. For the Argos, the building brings back lots of memories, both good and bad.



According to Globe and Mail reporter Andrew Willis (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-rogers-centre-faces-demolition-as-blue-jays-owner-plans-new-stadium/): Rogers Communications Inc., owner of Major League Baseball’s Toronto Blue Jays, and the real estate arm of Brookfield Asset Management Inc. want to demolish the Rogers Centre and construct a new stadium as part of a downtown Toronto redevelopment, according to multiple sources involved in the project.

The Rogers Centre, with its retractable roof, opened in 1989 as SkyDome and cost $570-million, with taxpayers picking up a significant portion of the cost. Its domed roof has become an icon of the city’s skyline. Rogers acquired the stadium in 2004 for $25-million.

The multibillion-dollar renovation would be privately funded by Brookfield and Rogers, according to the sources, but needs numerous government approvals to move forward. While Rogers owns the stadium, the federal government owns the land.

Rebuilding the stadium is expected to play out over five to eight years.

Sportsnet reporter Shi Davidi adds (https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/1332315232115568640?s=20): Tons of regulatory hurdles to clear for this, primary among them is that Rogers owns the building only, not the land, which is leased from Canada Lands Company through 2088. It is zoned for stadium usage only. ...

The Argos played at what was originally known as SkyDome starting in 1989 until the Double Blue moved (https://3downnation.com/2015/08/24/rogers-centre-a-sea-of-empty-seats-for-argos/) to BMO Field in 2016 (https://3downnation.com/2015/05/20/argos-future-brighter-under-new-ownership/). The Argos played 27 seasons at Rogers Centre, which had a capacity exceeding 52,000 for football.
https://3downnation.com/2020/11/27/former-home-of-the-toronto-argonauts-rogers-centre-to-be-demolished-report/

[jerrym]

The Globe and Mail is now saying that Rogers Communications has put any plans concerning the future of Rogers Centre are on hold due to Covid-19.



Rogers Communications Inc. says it was exploring the future of its Toronto stadium prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, but the virus has caused it to put those plans on hold.

"Prior to the pandemic, we were exploring options for the stadium but through this year our primary focus has been keeping our customers connected and keeping our employees safe, so there is no update on the Rogers Centre to share at this time," said the telecommunications company's spokesperson Andrew Garas in a statement to The Canadian Press.
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The statement comes after the Globe and Mail reported Friday that Rogers and Brookfield Asset Management Inc. were looking to tear down the stadium that is home to the Toronto Blue Jays as part of a larger development project.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/skydome-demolition-report-rogers-centre-1.5818943

[ArgoZ]

Demolition is my trade. This is nothing new. The idea has been around for years, thanks to the lands value. I guess it was a slow sports day and we needed something to talk about.

[Argo57]

My guess is logistics will force building any new stadium at another location, that way the Jays can play at Skydome until their new facility is ready.

[ArgoFan1]

Demolition is my trade. This is nothing new. The idea has been around for years, thanks to the lands value. I guess it was a slow sports day and we needed something to talk about.

Has nothing to do with value of the land since Rogers does not own the land. They only own the building. If they build on the same spot, they will still have to maintain their lease on the land.

[paulwoods13]

I think we can safely assume they are not building a new stadium on the current site, unless the Jays are prepared to spend at least two years -- and possibly longer -- in some other city. Which is a complete non-starter IMO. I'm sure the Jays would like an actual baseball stadium, and they might build one some day, after the economy recovers. It better not get any govt money.

[ArgoZ]

Has nothing to do with value of the land since Rogers does not own the land. They only own the building. If they build on the same spot, they will still have to maintain their lease on the land.

The previous discussions had everything to do with the value. If the tenant were to leave, the land could be pieced out. That land was once considered the most valuable in the city to the right developers.

[AngeloV]

It better not get any govt money.

I think it would get some government money based on the theory that it will create many jobs which would stimulate the economy. To me, it would be a shame for a company that paid 5.2B for an NHL TV deal to request government money though. They clearly can do it without government money.

[ArgoZ]

It’s near impossible to not involve government money when they own the land and development is forecast. Let’s say the Jays build elsewhere, they are then going to sell the SkyDome to the Government who will pay for the bills going forward. After development is over, they will likely come ahead, but they will be in debt for a certain time period.

[paulwoods13]

No govt will operate a stadium that has no tenant, so clearly if the Jays were to build a stadium elsewhere, SkyDome will have to be demolished. Who would be responsible for the cost of that is an interesting question. It's certainly possible the govt would have to cover the cost of demolition, but I don't see why taxpayers should be expected to buy something, just so it can be demolished. I hope all levels of govt play hardball on this. Taxpayers were already ripped off twice -- first in the construction, where costs doubled, and then when the province covered the stadium's debt, then gave the building away for a fraction of its cost. Clearly Rogers is going to try to squeeze every available cent of public money -- taxpayers have a right to demand that politicians not do what so many politicians in so many jurisdictions have done in the past.

[Shatto]

Unfortunately, we don't know the terms and conditions of the agreement between the federal Canada Lands Company and Rogers. There may be conditions and penalties attached to any change of utilization of the leased land. The only things we know for sure is Rogers owns the building and a federal agency owns the land. We can also surmise from media reports, Rogers would like to have a slightly smaller, more fan friendly baseball park.

[ArgoFan1]

One report I saw said that they could build a new stadium on the same property, by starting outside the dome and building as much as they can and then tear done the dome to complete the new park. Apparently that was done at one of the the other baseball stadiums. The new park would be smaller, so I can see them starting over at the East side of the property, with home plate being over near the aquarium and then the stands fanning out.

[jerrym]

I notice that none of the comments show any nostalgia for the place, perhaps understandably since for most of the Argos history there it seemed an empty void. However, I thought there might be a few good memories of great victories and a Grey Cup win there or the 1991 season when the energy seemed electric and John Candy played a big role in that.

[ArgoZ]

One report I saw said that they could build a new stadium on the same property, by starting outside the dome and building as much as they can and then tear done the dome to complete the new park. Apparently that was done at one of the the other baseball stadiums. The new park would be smaller, so I can see them starting over at the East side of the property, with home plate being over near the aquarium and then the stands fanning out.

Neat idea and I remember seeing that a few times in the States. Looking top down, I don’t see room around the CN Tower/Aquarium. The only room is South against the Gardiner and even then there is only room for maybe one grandstand. You might shave a year of a 4 year project, which doesn’t completely solve the biggest problem.

[paulwoods13]

FWIW I think it's extremely unlikely that any new stadium will be built with home plate facing west. That goes against the recommendations of MLB and would mean batters staring into the sun during day games.

[Will]

FWIW I think it's extremely unlikely that any new stadium will be built with home plate facing west. That goes against the recommendations of MLB and would mean batters staring into the sun during day games.

Agreed, they had that issue at Parc Jarry when the Expos started out.

[Mike Hogan]

At Jarry Park they had to stop the games for a few minutes every night while the sun set. The sun set right over the low grandstand down the left field line, and any throw from the left side of the infield would be coming right out of the sun at the first baseman.

[Will]

I've only attended a handful of baseball games since the Argos moved by Skydome in 2015, but at the last one I was at in April, 2019 I couldn't help but notice how aged it seemed (at least the 500 level). I know that renovations have been done to the 100 and 200 levels, but I am unsure if the 500 level isn't still similar to how it appeared back in 1989.

[jerrym]

I've only attended a handful of baseball games since the Argos moved by Skydome in 2015, but at the last one I was at in April, 2019 I couldn't help but notice how aged it seemed (at least the 500 level). I know that renovations have been done to the 100 and 200 levels, but I am unsure if the 500 level isn't still similar to how it appeared back in 1989.

Has it been five years since the Argos moved? To me it just seems like two years. Time flies, even when you're having fun with Covid-19.

[Argo57]

Skydome hasn’t aged well, the last couple of years the Argos played there it seemed really run down.
BMO Field is a far superior facility for CFL football.

[ArgoRavi]

I notice that none of the comments show any nostalgia for the place, perhaps understandably since for most of the Argos history there it seemed an empty void. However, I thought there might be a few good memories of great victories and a Grey Cup win there or the 1991 season when the energy seemed electric and John Candy played a big role in that.

The Argos were treated as second-class citizens from the time they moved to SkyDome, even though it was the 1982 Grey Cup which inspired the building of that facility. There were some good moments there but I have little fondness for that stadium.

[Argo57]

The Argos were treated as second-class citizens from the time they moved to SkyDome, even though it was the 1982 Grey Cup which inspired the building of that facility. There were some good moments there but I have little fondness for that stadium.

The 1982 Grey Cup game was a miserable weather day.
Cold temperatures and driving rain that didn’t let up, my brother and I were sitting near the top of the uncovered south grandstand.
We stayed until midway through the third quarter and went home to watch the rest of the game.
You are correct Ravi, that game started the ball rolling in regards to Toronto getting a new stadium a fact long forgotten by most.

Argos were clearly second class tenants at Skydome which became more apparent as the years went by, the last two or three seasons there were the worst as it became obvious that costs were being cut in regards to hosting Argo games.
I have many great memories from Exhibition Stadium from both Argonaut and Blue Jay games but very little from Skydome.

[1971GreyCup]

The 1982 Grey Cup games was the last one I attended with my father. Luckily he lived to see his beloved Double Blue finally win another cup before succumbing to a long illness.

As I recall, we sat behind home plate. An absolutely dreadful freezing, horizontal rain coming off the lake. Warren Moon at his best didn’t help either. lol

It would almost 30 years before I could reconstruct the father/son Grey Cup bond in 2011. Only COVID has interrupted our new Grey Cup experience.

[Argo57]

The 1982 Grey Cup games was the last one I attended with my father. Luckily he lived to see his beloved Double Blue finally win another cup before succumbing to a long illness.

As I recall, we sat behind home plate. An absolutely dreadful freezing, horizontal rain coming off the lake. Warren Moon at his best didn’t help either. lol

It would almost 30 years before I could reconstruct the father/son Grey Cup bond in 2011. Only COVID has interrupted our new Grey Cup experience.

That’s what it is all about, spending time with your kid(s) while passing along your love of the Argonauts and CFL football.
Missed the Go train chats with my son, having dinner in Liberty Village and busting his chops during the game with Angelo, Dean and the gang (he’s a Ticat fan).😡
Fingers crossed for the 2021 season🤞🏻

[1971GreyCup]

That’s what it is all about, spending time with your kid(s) while passing along your love of the Argonauts and CFL football.
Missed the Go train chats with my son, having dinner in Liberty Village and busting his chops during the game with Angelo, Dean and the gang (he’s a Ticat fan).
Fingers crossed for the 2021 season爛

Right on!

My boy’s in 1st year university now and working out and practicing with the Saint Mary’s Huskies in this COVID year. My friends really know how to turn my crank by claiming he’s going to look great in Ticat’s colours. What a horrible future for a true 🔵🔵 fan. 😎

[AngeloV]

That’s what it is all about, spending time with your kid(s) while passing along your love of the Argonauts and CFL football.
Missed the Go train chats with my son, having dinner in Liberty Village and busting his chops during the game with Angelo, Dean and the gang (he’s a Ticat fan).😡
Fingers crossed for the 2021 season🤞🏻

I'm looking forward to showering him with Ti-Cats Suck chants again. :)

[Argo57]

I'm looking forward to showering him with Ti-Cats Suck chants again. :)

I actually think he enjoys it😂

[doubleblue]

The 1982 Grey Cup game was a miserable weather day.
Cold temperatures and driving rain that didn’t let up, my brother and I were sitting near the top of the uncovered south grandstand.
We stayed until midway through the third quarter and went home to watch the rest of the game.
You are correct Ravi, that game started the ball rolling in regards to Toronto getting a new stadium a fact long forgotten by most.

Argos were clearly second class tenants at Skydome which became more apparent as the years went by, the last two or three seasons there were the worst as it became obvious that costs were being cut in regards to hosting Argo games.
I have many great memories from Exhibition Stadium from both Argonaut and Blue Jay games but very little from Skydome.

Yes Exhibition Stadium was a qreat place for football before the Blue Jays and the weather was good. But I was all in on a Dome Stadium at the time. I have sat in every level of the Sky Dome for both Football and Baseball and IMO the 200 level was the best especially for football. I loved my seat on the 200 level. Close to the washroom, food and exit and always good weather conditions. If the GO Trains were to leave Union 10 or 15 minutes later things would have been perfect.

[Argo57]

Yes Exhibition Stadium was a qreat place for football before the Blue Jays and the weather was good. But I was all in on a Dome Stadium at the time. I have sat in every level of the Sky Dome for both Football and Baseball and IMO the 200 level was the best especially for football. I loved my seat on the 200 level. Close to the washroom, food and exit and always good weather conditions. If the GO Trains were to leave Union 10 or 15 minutes later things would have been perfect.

Skydome was an engineering marvel at the time.
The thought of having the option of an open air stadium in nice weather or keeping the lid closed under less than ideal weather conditions was very appealing.
I remember my first Argo game at the dome sitting in level 100, my first observation was the fact it wasn’t sloped enough, you could be sitting 20 rows from the field and still not see the over the players if sitting behind the bench.
I share you opinion that level 200 was the best spot to watch any event, we sat in section#207 for Argonaut games.
Due to the stadium design you were actually much farther away from the field when sitting at centre field (for football).
Exhibition stadium was a bit of a dump but I have so many great memories there, the Dome always seemed cold and impersonal.

[AngeloV]

Yes Exhibition Stadium was a qreat place for football before the Blue Jays and the weather was good. But I was all in on a Dome Stadium at the time. I have sat in every level of the Sky Dome for both Football and Baseball and IMO the 200 level was the best especially for football. I loved my seat on the 200 level. Close to the washroom, food and exit and always good weather conditions. If the GO Trains were to leave Union 10 or 15 minutes later things would have been perfect.

I liked my 200 level seat there as well, but I still enjoy BMO more. I don't mind sitting in cold weather late in the year. Not a problem if you dress properly. The only think I miss about the dome is the fact that I can walk there after work for a weeknight game. It might have been a better atmosphere if they did a better job of making it look like a smaller stadium and properly curtained off the 500 level for Argos games. But I guess that would have cost money.

[Will]

I liked my 200 level seat there as well, but I still enjoy BMO more. I don't mind sitting in cold weather late in the year. Not a problem if you dress properly. The only think I miss about the dome is the fact that I can walk there after work for a weeknight game. It might have been a better atmosphere if they did a better job of making it look like a smaller stadium and properly curtained off the 500 level for Argos games. But I guess that would have cost money.

One of the things I've noticed with BMO since the Argos move there is that we haven't had too many inclement weather games (if any).

[paulwoods13]

One of the things I've noticed with BMO since the Argos move there is that we haven't had too many inclement weather games (if any).

I haven't been to every single game at BMO (missed 2 or 3) but I don't think we have ever had a serious rainstorm there. Wind is definitely a factor at times, and the 2017 EF was seasonably cold, but the weather has basically been great.

[AngeloV]

One of the things I've noticed with BMO since the Argos move there is that we haven't had too many inclement weather games (if any).

I think there have been a couple of games where it rained prior to kick off, resulting in me having to dry my seat off. In section 227, the roof doesn't really protect from the rain all that well. Having said that, I'm still not bothered by the possibility of getting wet during a game. If you dress for it, it is not an issue. You can buy a rain poncho fro $3 at dollarama.

[Will]

I think there have been a couple of games where it rained prior to kick off, resulting in me having to dry my seat off. In section 227, the roof doesn't really protect from the rain all that well. Having said that, I'm still not bothered by the possibility of getting wet during a game. If you dress for it, it is not an issue. You can buy a rain poncho fro $3 at dollarama.

It depends on when in the season a "rain game" occurs. Rain when it is 5C is among some of the worst weather one can have, I'd prefer -1C and snow 24/7/365 at that point.