View Full Version : Week 5 Game Thread - Labour Day - Toronto Argonauts @ Hamilton Tiger-Cats
A game that rarely goes right for the Argonauts takes place on Labour Day Monday as the Tiger-Cats open up their home schedule.
The Ticats did beat Montreal on Friday night, but their OL continued to struggle to a degree, but at the same time the Argos DL hasn't registered many sacks so far.
The Ticats D is still formidable holding 2/3 opponents to less than 20 points so far.
Wobbler
09-02-2021, 07:20 PM
Bladek, Blake, and Collins are listed as under COVID-19 protocol in the injury report. Does that means they had a positive PCR? How does this actually work?
paulwoods13
09-02-2021, 07:55 PM
Bladek, Blake, and Collins are listed as under COVID-19 protocol in the injury report. Does that means they had a positive PCR? How does this actually work?
Could have been in close contact with someone who had a positive test. Hopefully we don't lose both o-linemen for Monday's game -- that would be a major test of out depth. Collins might have to be replaced by Worthy, I guess.
Wobbler
09-03-2021, 06:41 PM
The Friday injury report (https://www.cfl.ca/2021/09/02/argonauts-tiger-cats-injury-reports-sept-2/) is basically the same, including Jamal Campbell's limited reps. Losing three starters on the OL would be frightening, but I admit I'd like to see what Allen-Richards-Nicastro-Giffen-Poole would look like (with Noel taking Collins spot to satisfy the ratio). Mind you it would probably look like a solid LT, three raw rookies, and a RT who hasn't played the position since he was a junior... so I hope it doesn't come to that.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Your Labour Day Lineup 🌊 <a href="https://t.co/Tq25cBDWuZ">pic.twitter.com/Tq25cBDWuZ</a></p>— Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1434531880276221953?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Shatto
09-05-2021, 11:36 AM
Interesting that Jeanpierre is dressing for Collins, rather than Worthy or Phillips. I expect Jeanpierre will also be used to return punts and kicks.
Mocha
09-05-2021, 12:15 PM
I'm interested to see if the National rookie Tommy Nield will get any looks.
Wobbler
09-05-2021, 12:26 PM
It's nice to see your man Feeney activated, Shatto.
With the addition of Nield, all four of the Argos' available 2021 draft picks are now active members of the team. (Doxtater and Vilain are currently playing in the NCAA and St-Juste is in the NFL) Pretty good draft, I'd say!
Huge relief that the O-Line seems to be intact, obviously. I like our chances tomorrow!
jerrym
09-05-2021, 02:51 PM
It's nice to see your man Feeney activated, Shatto.
With the addition of Nield, all four of the Argos' available 2021 draft picks are now active members of the team. (Doxtater and Vilain are currently playing in the NCAA and St-Juste is in the NFL) Pretty good draft, I'd say!
Huge relief that the O-Line seems to be intact, obviously. I like our chances tomorrow!
Definitely looks better than many previous drafts with promise of more to come if we get some of these future draftees.
jerrym
09-05-2021, 02:55 PM
Hamilton's depth chart
https://cdn.ticats.ca/app/uploads/ticats/2021/09/05101430/Depth-Chart-Roster-09-06-21-vs.-TOR.pdf
OV Argo
09-05-2021, 03:51 PM
Argos should be able to run on the mediocre Santos-Knox at MLB, plus rookie Kelly at OLB
The Argos pass rush should be able pour over those 2 Ticat OTs as well.
Argo57
09-05-2021, 04:00 PM
Argos should be able to run on the mediocre Santos-Knox at MLB, plus rookie Kelly at OLB
The Argos pass rush should be able pour over those 2 Ticat OTs as well.
Key words are “should be”, anything can happen on Labour Day between these 2 teams.
Shatto
09-05-2021, 10:46 PM
The 2020 draft also has turned out well for the Argos. Four of the six drafted players are on the active roster (Brissett, Acheampong, Giffen, Pellerin). Cassar was on the active roster, until he was injured. Baker, I believe has returned to university. Not a bad draft in either of the last two years.
Wobbler
09-06-2021, 11:26 AM
The 2021 roster rule is that you announce 46 players and then scratch one before the game, correct? I haven't been able to find out which guy(s) have been scratched so far - does anyone know?
The Argos need to maintain their discipline. There have been 4 unnecessary roughness penalties called on them in the 1st half. I get that there's going to be a degree of trash talk in this game, but it's costing the team right now.
OV Argo
09-06-2021, 02:30 PM
OG Nicatro got beat very bad on that sack by Wynn - barely touched him - can't have that from your O-line. Bennett's sack was same sort of deal on the OT.
OG Nicatro got beat very bad on that sack by Wynn - barely touched him - can't have that from your O-line. Bennett's sack was same sort of deal on the OT.
Yup, killed whatever chance the Argos might have had on that last drive.
jerrym
09-06-2021, 02:31 PM
The Argos need to maintain their discipline. There have been 4 unnecessary roughness penalties called on them in the 1st half. I get that there's going to be a degree of trash talk in this game, but it's costing the team right now.
This is a familiar story in Argo-Ticat Labour Day games with the Argos often paying dearly for this again and again.
dmont
09-06-2021, 02:32 PM
I dont think the d line has played very well so far. A couple pressures and a sack, but Evan's sure had a lot of time back there on a few plays. I thought Hamilton was supposed to have a dodgy Oline, why cant we take advantage of it?
Their DBs are doing a good job on our receivers.
Decoud looked pretty awful on that touchdown. Gave the receiver a huge cushion and then got embarrassed by a stiff arm. Against a pretty small receiver too.
C'mon Dinwiddie, think of something nasty.
I, too, am disappointed about the DL's play against what was supposed to be a weaker Ticats' OL.
Arbuckle is moving the ball a little bit, but a costly penalty or sack has stunted momentum on drives.
OV Argo
09-06-2021, 02:46 PM
Rookie Haggerty in at safety - did starter Butler get injured? Very surprised to see Glen Young show the faith in a rookie Canadian to have him in there; Robbie Smith gets a sack too.
dmont
09-06-2021, 02:47 PM
Hagerty played that whole series at safety. Crezdom Butler hurt? If so, hope the cats dont realize we have a rookie in at safety.
dmont
09-06-2021, 02:50 PM
Here we go... is it going to be one of those?
Argos allow a punt return touchdown.
F*** Labour Day
jerrym
09-06-2021, 02:55 PM
Braverman although adequate has neither the speed or moves to be a good return man as is so obvious in comparison to Frankie Williams.
Braverman although adequate has neither the speed or moves to be a good return man as is so obvious in comparison to Frankie Williams.
He also hasn't excelled enough at receiver to justify his continued presence at KR/PR.
dmont
09-06-2021, 03:04 PM
Aaaaaaaand.... its 2019 all over again.
jerrym
09-06-2021, 03:05 PM
The five man Argo OL can rarely stop quick penetration of the backfield. They may need to shift to double tight ends for better protection as they often did against Winnipeg.
The DL is getting little penetration by comparison with Hamilton and they even looking worse compared to Winnipeg's DL did to Fajardo yesterday.
jerrym
09-06-2021, 03:06 PM
Is this turning into a full rout?
Is this turning into a full rout?
Leaning that way.
dmont
09-06-2021, 03:09 PM
Our Dline is garbage. Our Oline is now garbage too.
A disastrous 3rd quarter for the Argonauts.
dmont
09-06-2021, 03:18 PM
Why is it that under-performing teams always seem to work their $hit out in a game vs. the argonauts?
Why is it that under-performing teams always seem to work their $hit out in a game vs. the argonauts?
You're forgetting the intangibles that seem to come with Labour Day.
The Argos finally get a TD with 7:04 remaining in the 4th as Eric Rogers catches a TD. That Williams return TD might loom large.
jerrym
09-06-2021, 03:32 PM
Great catch by Rogers for TD after being hit helmet to helmet on previous play.
A special teams, and defensive touchdown allowed by the Argos.
jerrym
09-06-2021, 03:41 PM
Lawrence interception for TD says everything you need to know about this game. Failure and Frustration!
I'm tired of the Argos never being able to rise to the occasion on Labour Day, and you know that the CFL is never not going to schedule Toronto-Hamilton on this day either.
Stevoman
09-06-2021, 03:42 PM
Well...that was not a good game.
The defense did not play as badly as 32 points in the 'PA' column will suggest as the Argos allowed a defensive TD and a special teams TD. The Argos offense has looked good in 2/4 games this season, but has also been shut down effectively by two of the more elite teams (WPG, HAM) although the Argos did have a nice rebound against the Blue Bombers. The fact of the matter is that this team is not good enough on the offensive line to maintain rhythm consistently. I would very much like to know what Terry Poole has (or hasn't) shown at practice as Argos Cowboy brings up a very good point on Twitter pointing out that the Argos gave up a defensive captain for him. The Ticats secondary played very well breaking up passes at the last moment although I would've liked for Argo receivers to hold onto a few of those plays. The Braverman experiment at PR/KR absolutely needs to end.
While that 2nd Rogers TD could validly be argued as garbage time, the punt return TD and pick-six loom large don't they? At least strictly on the scoreboard.
jerrym
09-06-2021, 04:02 PM
The final score flatters the Argos.
If you want to believe the scoreboard, the Argos lost this game on essentially 3 plays.
jerrym
09-06-2021, 04:05 PM
They lost the game in the trenches, where most losses occur.
All I know is that this team better come out very, very prepared on Friday. A split in this series will be crucial.
OV Argo
09-06-2021, 04:15 PM
If you want to believe the scoreboard, the Argos lost this game on essentially 3 plays.
Yep - really didn't get outplayed badly - 2 big Ticat plays broke it open.
Arbuckle showed a good passing arm mostly; and MBT threw some nice strikes too; not sure why Foster didn't get way more carries early after he ran so strong last game.
Argos often 3 man front does not get enough pass rush pressure.
The OL showed that they didn’t practice all week. The COVID restriction looked like it had a major impact on that unit.
The DL has been a major disappointment this season so far. I realize that they have a lot of talent on the 6-game IR, but Charleston Hughes has been invisible. If he has a sack this season then I’ve missed it. QB’s have had a lot of time to throw, whether it’s the 3-man front (which for the life of me drives me nuts when they use it), or the 4-man front. Most of the pressures, and sacks, have come from blitzes.
The other reality is that the Argos don’t have a game-breaker. They have a collection of “nice” receivers, but nobody that will run by any DB.
I’m disappointed that they laid another egg on Labour Day. This game was never a contest, regardless of what the scoreboard said. The Argos were beaten in all areas, Offence, Defence, Special Teams, and LOS play.
However, let’s not forget that they are 2-2. Still a lot of football to be played, and they are in better shape then the previous two seasons.
OV Argo
09-06-2021, 05:35 PM
Like to see what 6-8, 325 Giffen could bring - at either OG or OT
As far as Argo receivers - IMO they have the best overall talent in the league; Rogers, Daniels & Collins are all super proven CFL receivers; Braverman may not be much as a returner, but he is a solid receiver with some YAC ability; and the Canadian crew of Gittens, Noel & Brissett (Brescacin too if he comes back) are all talented. You don't need a 4.3 burner to go deep with receivers - smart play-calling, route running and accurate throws get that done; have the guts to air it out plenty.
Shatto
09-06-2021, 05:59 PM
It is difficult to make really accurate observations from watching a game on TV but here goes anyway:
. There are a number of deficiencies that came to light today. The question is whether the coaches can correct these problems before the next game
. Braverman and Edwards are reliable returners but the team needs an explosive returner who is capable of taking it to the house when the opportunity arises. Why wasn't Jeanpierre utilized?
. The D didn't have a great game but it was not as bad as the score would indicate. Evans is more mobile than Arbuckle but the D did manage to put some pressure on him
. We have talented receivers who run excellent routes and have good hands but we don't have a burner to stretch the field.
. DE Harold came with great expectations but frankly Canadian Smith appears to be outplaying him.
. If they are going to put BTM in, why not at the beginning of the 4th, when he might have had a chance to win the game.
. If Butler can't play in the return game, changes need to be made. Why not Edwards in at safety and McCoil at SAM. Hamilton appeared to pick on the rookie Hagerty
. It is often said that a game turns on 2 or 3 plays. That happened today with William's return for a TD and the interception for a TD
A split in the games is essential if the team wants to have a shot at 1st place in the East. The return game with Hamilton is a crucial game.
Wobbler
09-06-2021, 06:54 PM
I think MBT eventually went in to keep Arbuckle safe, not to (truly) try to win the game.
It seemed like Dinwiddie's and Jackson's plan was to establish the run - since that had been working - and open up the middle of the field for crossing routes. That didn't work, obviously. Hamilton also did a good job of shutting down Daniels, who was targeted a lot (for good reason).
A few big plays made the difference on the scoreboard, but it looked clear that Hamilton was the better team in all three phases today. I guess we'll find out next week whether that was because of better preparation and the home field advantage.
Wobbler
09-06-2021, 07:06 PM
Kudos to Kurleigh Gittens, though! Our "decoy" receiver had a terrific day and got lots of targets, presumably because nothing else was working. I hope they don't forget about him when Brescacin comes back.
paulwoods13
09-06-2021, 08:07 PM
Both of our lines got manhandled. Lose both of those battles, you simply cannot win. Both need vast improvements in the next four days or this could happen again. I thought d-line would be a strength of this team, but so far it has been anything but.
Arbuckle looked tentative and confused a lot of the time. MBT seemed assertive, and got rid of the ball way quicker than Arbuckle did. However, when he was in, Ticats were likely playing soft. Arbuckle clearly will (and should) start the next game, but I hope Dinwiddie is willing to change QBs fairly quickly in the future if nothing is happening offensively. Even if it's just to give Arbuckle a series or two to watch from the sidelines. We have two QBs who are not rookies, might as well be prepared to use both as situations dictate. Arbuckle has more upside, but he has started just nine games in this league and is going to make mistakes and get confused by coverages at times.
Clearly we need a stronger kick returner than we have shown so far. If we were to add a second INT to the o-line, I imagine sitting Braverman is a strong option although we also dressed an INT LB who I don't think played anywhere other than specials today.
Trust TSN not to say a word about why Hagerty played more than half the game. I have to assume Butler got injured at some point.
Argo57
09-06-2021, 09:11 PM
Argos dominated on the line(s) of scrimmage today.
They did a masterful job of keeping their tradition of sucking wind on Labour Day.
Stupid undisciplined penalties didn’t help the cause, better smarten their asses up for Friday’s game or we can expect the same result.
Expected a dominant D Line this season but so far they have been rather mediocre, Braverman not very good as a PR/KR (to be kind).
TSN has been abysmal in giving any in game details in regards to roster moves (Butler injured/benched) and need to drop or choose a better time to conduct their interviews during games-distracting and annoying IMO.
Despite the game sucking my son and I had a great time watching the game with some friends which makes it all worthwhile.👍
ArgoFan1
09-06-2021, 09:16 PM
Argos have to be willing to change the quarterback whenever one is struggling. MBT should have come in half way through the third quarter I was saying. If it doesn't work, you go back to Arbuckle. That is the benefit of having two good quarterbacks. Let Arbuckle sit and watch for a while and sometimes just that will help.
I didn't think the receivers helped out much today. A lot of dropped balls. We definitely need a good kick returner. Argos have always been known for great returners over the years.
It was great to be back at a Labour Day game after two years. We didn't tailgate like usual though.
AngeloV
09-06-2021, 10:48 PM
When I logged in, I was half expecting MBT to be the main guy blamed for the loss today. (yes, that is sarccasm).
I just chalk it up to the Argos having trouble on Labour day. Throw in the fact that it was Hamilton's first home game in many many days/weeks/months, and you have to figure they were super pumped for today, just like the Argos were for the home opener against the Bombers. I fully expect to see a different result on Friday, and at times like this, a fast turn around probably helps.
On a side note, the Ti-Cats must be really good at baiting their opponents for bad penalties. IIRC, the same thing happened last week when they were in Montreal. You need to preach discipline against teams like this, because the retaliator always gets called.
And to add to Argo57's post, it was great to get together and watch the game. A great group of 6 of us at my place made the day great despite the result.
I'm throwing this out there...and I know the league would never do this, but is it necessary for Argos to play Ticats every year on Labour Day? I say this in basically conceding that a substantial majority of the time it's going to be an "L" so why not feed Montreal or Ottawa to the wolves on occasion?
AngeloV
09-07-2021, 08:27 AM
I'm throwing this out there...and I know the league would never do this, but is it necessary for Argos to play Ticats every year on Labour Day? I say this in basically conceding that a substantial majority of the time it's going to be an "L" so why not feed Montreal or Ottawa to the wolves on occasion?
I personally would hate to see the Labour Day tilt go away. Losses suck, but this is an EVENT every year.
Treblecharger1
09-07-2021, 12:25 PM
I personally would hate to see the Labour Day tilt go away. Losses suck, but this is an EVENT every year.
Same, I am fine with the home and home, it makes it way more fun when we do win in Hamilton as well :)
argolio
09-07-2021, 06:15 PM
I played masochist and re-watched as much of this as I could take. Yeah, the nonsense major foul penalties cost us some, but I think our biggest failures were poor production on first down and their consistent pass rush compared to our lack of a rush. Both teams getting three sacks shows how statistics can lie. Ticats OTs shut down our ends, while our o-line struggled with their d-line which gave their LBs and DBs more chances to make plays.
Labour Day in Hamilton is a tradition that must never die. End of story.
Jeremiah Masoli looked very lonely on the sideline. Maybe Ottawa should go after him.
I think we'll see a better game on Friday.
Argo57
09-07-2021, 07:25 PM
I played masochist and re-watched as much of this as I could take. Yeah, the nonsense major foul penalties cost us some, but I think our biggest failures were poor production on first down and their consistent pass rush compared to our lack of a rush. Both teams getting three sacks shows how statistics can lie. Ticats OTs shut down our ends, while our o-line struggled with their d-line which gave their LBs and DBs more chances to make plays.
Labour Day in Hamilton is a tradition that must never die. End of story.
Jeremiah Masoli looked very lonely on the sideline. Maybe Ottawa should go after him.
I think we'll see a better game on Friday.
Field position also played a major factor, Argos seemed to be starting drives deep in their own end most of the game.
ArgoRavi
09-07-2021, 11:45 PM
I'm throwing this out there...and I know the league would never do this, but is it necessary for Argos to play Ticats every year on Labour Day? I say this in basically conceding that a substantial majority of the time it's going to be an "L" so why not feed Montreal or Ottawa to the wolves on occasion?
For a good bit of the 1980s to 1990, Montreal and Ottawa often were the visitors to Hamilton on Labour Day and attendance wasn't bad. Edmonton visited in 1981 and it was a terrific game which ended in a tie. Most of these games were night games.
ArgoRavi
09-07-2021, 11:45 PM
Field position also played a major factor, Argos seemed to be starting drives deep in their own end most of the game.
I honestly couldn't understand the supposed wind advantage in this game.
Argo57
09-08-2021, 08:37 AM
I honestly couldn't understand the supposed wind advantage in this game.
The wind is strange at THF, if you look at the flags at the end of the stadium it appears to be a crosswind but on the field the wind seems to blow the length of the field.
For a good bit of the 1980s to 1990, Montreal and Ottawa often were the visitors to Hamilton on Labour Day and attendance wasn't bad. Edmonton visited in 1981 and it was a terrific game which ended in a tie. Most of these games were night games.
Yes, Stats Junkie highlighted John Congemi's first start on September 7, 1987 which I believe was an evening Labor Day game. I think TSN would prefer an evening game, however I don't think the teams prefer this because it allows fans to get drunk all day causing trouble in the crowd.
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