Week 6 Game Thread - Labour Day re-match (Sep 10) - Tiger-Cats @ Argonauts

[Wobbler]

With the short week, this game is creeping up quickly! Hopefully everyone learned some valuable lessons on Monday and will put that education to good use on Friday.

[ArgofanIan]

Friday is real good for me ... lookin forward to the game... but hope next year if we do back to back.... would be nice to do Saturday afternoon game to accommodate 905's and anyone coming from Hamilton. Also helps tail gaters.

[AngeloV]

Braverman (1 game), Blake and Butler (each 6 game) out for the Argos. Collins returns and Brissett starts in Braverman's spot at SB with Hagerty getting the start at safety, Nicastro at Center and Richards at LG. Llevi Noel also on the 1 game.
For the Ti-Cats, no Speedy B or Ciante Evans.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The LDC rematch lineup  <a href="https://t.co/g2IRFKFPS3">pic.twitter.com/g2IRFKFPS3</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1436019342718668804?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tomorrow night's lineup. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ticats?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ticats</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/al2RTrgqHd">pic.twitter.com/al2RTrgqHd</a></p>&mdash; Hamilton Tiger-Cats (@Ticats) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats/status/1436021429640830976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Argo57]

Brisett is an upgrade over Braverman IMO.

[OV Argo]

Looking forward to see what rookie Hagerty has at safety, him knowing he's the starter; and I'm actually stunned that the Argos are going with him as the starter (we shall see come game time though), when a vet proven D player like McCoil could probably play there; Young and the coaching staff must see good things from the kid - not sure he did much last game when he got in, but Butler hadn't been doing much out of safety either; and speaking of doing much - what about DE pass rush ? - Charleston Hughes, plus 2 guys with NFL resumes (Ray & Harold) haven't done much either (Robbie Smith looks like the best DE so far, IMO); is C. Law really injured and unable to play ?

[AngeloV]

but Butler hadn't been doing much out of safety either;

I have to disagree here. Butler has been excellent back there.

[OV Argo]

I have to disagree here. Butler has been excellent back there.


Butler is a real pro vet - with lots of CFL AND NFL experience; but thru 4 games this year he has 12 tackles with zeroes in other play-making stats like INTs, forced or recovered fumbles or sacks (not sure if he has any knock-downs ? - not that i have noticed); I just expect a lot more out of a safety - though safety in the CFL now is not like it used to be as a hard-hitter / ball-hawk type - maybe they expect the guy to just be a cover guy more now? Not an easy position to learn as a real impact play-maker perhaps (especially for American guys to which it is a new position)? Still like Pruneau with Ottawa; Adeleke with the Ticats and Metchie is coming on for the Stamps; Bummers' Alexander (who i thought looked lost last year when they put him there) seems to be really coming on and learning the job - some big hits and nose for the ball (2 picks last game). We'll see if Hagerty gets all the reps and how he looks if he does ? A 6th round draft pick getting a shot to start as a rookie ? (6-3, 200 size pretty nice for a safety)

[Argo57]

Butler is a real pro vet - with lots of CFL AND NFL experience; but thru 4 games this year he has 12 tackles with zeroes in other play-making stats like INTs, forced or recovered fumbles or sacks (not sure if he has any knock-downs ? - not that i have noticed); I just expect a lot more out of a safety - though safety in the CFL now is not like it used to be as a hard-hitter / ball-hawk type - maybe they expect the guy to just be a cover guy more now? Not an easy position to learn as a real impact play-maker perhaps (especially for American guys to which it is a new position)? Still like Pruneau with Ottawa; Adeleke with the Ticats and Metchie is coming on for the Stamps; Bummers' Alexander (who i thought looked lost last year when they put him there) seems to be really coming on and learning the job - some big hits and nose for the ball (2 picks last game). We'll see if Hagerty gets all the reps and how he looks if he does ? A 6th round draft pick getting a shot to start as a rookie ? (6-3, 200 size pretty nice for a safety)

I think Butler has been very solid at safety.
Hard for Shane Ray to do much from the 6 game, I’ll reserve judgement until he gets a few games under his belt.

[AngeloV]

Butler is a real pro vet - with lots of CFL AND NFL experience; but thru 4 games this year he has 12 tackles with zeroes in other play-making stats like INTs, forced or recovered fumbles or sacks (not sure if he has any knock-downs ? - not that i have noticed); I just expect a lot more out of a safety - though safety in the CFL now is not like it used to be as a hard-hitter / ball-hawk type - maybe they expect the guy to just be a cover guy more now? Not an easy position to learn as a real impact play-maker perhaps (especially for American guys to which it is a new position)? Still like Pruneau with Ottawa; Adeleke with the Ticats and Metchie is coming on for the Stamps; Bummers' Alexander (who i thought looked lost last year when they put him there) seems to be really coming on and learning the job - some big hits and nose for the ball (2 picks last game). We'll see if Hagerty gets all the reps and how he looks if he does ? A 6th round draft pick getting a shot to start as a rookie ? (6-3, 200 size pretty nice for a safety)

Safety isn't played the way it used to be. No longer is a safety just sitting in the middle of the field deep waiting to through big hits. There is a lot more rotation now based on overloads and motion. Of the ones you mentioned, Alexander and Adeleke are probably the best of the bunch, and I was no big fan of Butler before, but he was outstanding in the home game against Winnipeg. Obviously I can't comment as much on the games I watched on TV, but he changed my opinion of him big time.

[Wobbler]

Exciting: a chance to see our O-Line of the future play together.

Not exciting: having 11 guys on the 6 game IR after week 5. Not an ideal category in which to lead the league.

[OV Argo]

I think Butler has been very solid at safety.
Hard for Shane Ray to do much from the 6 game, I’ll reserve judgement until he gets a few games under his belt.


The TC "unblockable" Ray played in game one - not sure he did zip

[OV Argo]

Safety isn't played the way it used to be. No longer is a safety just sitting in the middle of the field deep waiting to through big hits. There is a lot more rotation now based on overloads and motion. Of the ones you mentioned, Alexander and Adeleke are probably the best of the bunch, and I was no big fan of Butler before, but he was outstanding in the home game against Winnipeg. Obviously I can't comment as much on the games I watched on TV, but he changed my opinion of him big time.


That's the choice of the current clique of CFL deep thinkers; not the way I would use a safety; the Bummers used a lot of true 3 linebacker look the last couple of games (i.e. not an extra DB / lightweight cover guy at S-OLB all the time)

[Shatto]

Colquhoun and Boateng are experienced CB's, so it is a bit of a surprise that neither of these Canadians are starting at CB, in order to release one of the American DB's to play safety. The coaches must have seen something in Hagerty to start him at safety, however he is a raw rookie. We can expect Hamilton will try to exploit his inexperience.

Hughes is listed as questionable for the game. If he can't play, it would be nice to see Smith start at DE. IMO he has been the best DE anyway.

The team dressed speedster Jeanpierre for the last game but did not give him a shot as a returner. This week Worthy is dressed. Sure hope we get to see him returning punts and kicks.

Cross seems to be a forgotten player this year. Would be great to see him utilized more on offence.

[Wobbler]

I'm actually stunned that the Argos are going with Hagerty as the starter (we shall see come game time though)
Me too. Hopefully this is more an expression of confidence in Hagerty rather than an indictment of Colquhuon.

[ArgofanIan]

Perfect weather for the rematch !!!. Should be great atmosphere with ticats fans in town. I am good with a QB switch if offence is sluggish. Go ARRGOS !!!!

[paulwoods13]

I'll bet Colquhoun and/or Boateng play more snaps than Hagerty. They will move a corner to safety and one of the NATs will slide in there. Depth charts are almost never 100% accurate.

[cfl-cis fan]

Colquhoun and Boateng are experienced CB's, so it is a bit of a surprise that neither of these Canadians are starting at CB, in order to release one of the American DB's to play safety. The coaches must have seen something in Hagerty to start him at safety, however he is a raw rookie. We can expect Hamilton will try to exploit his inexperience.

Hughes is listed as questionable for the game. If he can't play, it would be nice to see Smith start at DE. IMO he has been the best DE anyway.

The team dressed speedster Jeanpierre for the last game but did not give him a shot as a returner. This week Worthy is dressed. Sure hope we get to see him returning punts and kicks.

Cross seems to be a forgotten player this year. Would be great to see him utilized more on offence.

Coaching staff brought their own players so Cross will be the forgotten player, unfortunate. He still gets to block sometimes and play specials. Waste

[Will]

I'm going to feel real down if we lose.

[jerrym]

Argo and Hamilton injury reports for today's game:



Receiver Brandon Banks will not play this week, as he is dealing with a rib injury and Ticats’ d-lineman Ted Laurent (knee) is questionable.


Argos’ d-lineman Charleston Hughes (https://www.cfl.ca/players/charleston-hughes/139075/) is questionable with a knee injury and receivers Llevi Noel (https://www.cfl.ca/players/llevi-noel/162320/) and Daniel Braverman (https://www.cfl.ca/players/daniel-braverman/164590/) will also miss Friday’s game.

<tbody style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent;">
HAMILTON TIGER-CATS
PRACTICE DAY



Player Name
Position
Injury
WED
THURS
FRI
Game Status


Tunde Adeleke (https://www.cfl.ca/players/tunde-adeleke/163175/)
DB
Hamstring
Limited


Questionable


Brandon Banks (https://www.cfl.ca/players/brandon-banks/152593/)
WR
Ribs
Limited


Out


Jake Burt (https://www.cfl.ca/players/jake-burt/166235/)
TE
Quad
DNP


Out


Malik Carney (https://www.cfl.ca/players/malik-carney/165236/)
DL
Healthy Scratch
Full


Out


Mike Daly (https://www.cfl.ca/players/mike-daly/159754/)
DB
Neck
Limited


Out


Ciante Evans (https://www.cfl.ca/players/ciante-evans/160657/)
DB
Head
DNP


Out


Don Jackson (https://www.cfl.ca/players/don-jackson/162545/)
RB
Healthy scratch
Full


Out


Ted Laurent (https://www.cfl.ca/players/ted-laurent/158020/)
DL
Knee
Limited


Questionable


Desmond Lawrence (https://www.cfl.ca/players/desmond-lawrence/164248/)
DB
Hamstring
Limited


Out


Jeremiah Masoli (https://www.cfl.ca/players/jeremiah-masoli/148680/)
QB
Ribs
Limited


Out


Channing Stribling (https://www.cfl.ca/players/channing-stribling/163586/)
DB
Hamstring
Full





Coulter Woodmansey (https://www.cfl.ca/players/coulter-woodmansey/165730/)
OL
Healthy Scratch
Full




</tbody>

<tbody style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent;">
TORONTO ARGONAUTS
PRACTICE DAY



Player name
Position
Injury
Mon
Tue
Wed
Game status


Blake, Philip
OL
Hamstring



Out


Braverman, Daniel
WR
Ankle



Out


Butler, Crezdon
DB
Head



Out


Collins, Ricky
WR
Covid-19 protocol



–


Hughes, Charleston
DL
Knee



Questionable


Noel, Llevi
WR
Hamstring



Out

</tbody>
https://www.cfl.ca/2021/09/08/hamilton-injury-report-banks-limited-wednesday-practice/

[AngeloV]

I'm going to feel real down if we lose.

Fear not Will. I guarantee a victory tonight. That has to be worth something. :)

[ArgofanIan]

Sad lots of the pubs are shut down in liberty village...but its great day for football. Cats are good in sept...we are good in november...lol

[ArgoRavi]

I'll bet Colquhoun and/or Boateng play more snaps than Hagerty. They will move a corner to safety and one of the NATs will slide in there. Depth charts are almost never 100% accurate.

This was my first thought too, Paul, but are depth charts not supposed to be accurate this year for the gamblers?

[jerrym]

Last week I said the Argos lost the game badly in the trenches offensively and defensively. Some others said that the Tiger Cats won because of three plays. These are not mutually exclusive events. While the latter suggests the game was close, I disagree. Teams that win in the trenches on offence are going to have many more opportunities to have explosive plays. Similarly teams that win along the DL are much more likely to shut down the other team because of the holes the DL fills, the pressure it exerts on the QB, the sacks and the tackles behind the line of scrimmage that result. While the number of big plays may be limited in number, winning the OL and DL means you are well on the way to having those big plays that decide the game. I just hope the Argos do a better job today along the OL and DL.

[jerrym]

Good Argo DL pressure and sack on first Ticat drive.

[jerrym]

And the Argo OL was dominant on the TD drive. Keep this up with the DL doing well so far going well and the Argos should win.

[jerrym]

And if in addition to the OL and DL you win the turnover game you're almost certain to win. Nice interception by Muamba.

[dmont]

If I were Hamilton, I would be attacking Hargarty as much as I can. Rookie at safety who's had communication problems with the other DBs. I'm not sure that touchdown was his fault, but he was in the area when it happened.

[jerrym]

And after White dominates the opening quarter running game, Foster takes one in on a long run!Is this the same team that played four days ago?

[dmont]

Arbuckle overthrowing some receivers tonight. Uncharacteristic.

[dmont]

3rd and inches and we dont go for it? Weak...

[jerrym]

Tough luck on the Ticat interception as it looks like it bounced off the Brissett's knee to Adeleke.

[dmont]

Hagarty almost blows another one. Kid is too inexperienced to be back there. He was getting a mouthful from the other DBs after the play.

[OV Argo]

Tough luck on the Ticat interception as it looks like it bounced off the Brissett's knee to Adeleke.

Brissett shoulda showed stronger hands and had that for a TD; costly turn-over

[OV Argo]

Hagarty almost blows another one. Kid is too inexperienced to be back there. He was getting a mouthful from the other DBs after the play.


Coaching staff showing lots of faith in that young guy; Ticat TD maybe he should have been there - 2 DBs in the zone got split/ not deep enough; long pass at the end of the half he was getting talked to by the other DB.

[jerrym]

Eating up the clock getting the FG should help wear down the Ticats defence in the fourth quarter.

[dmont]

Brissets having a crappy game. Weak hands.

[dmont]

Arbuckle overthrows on another long pass. Hes been listening to Macbeth too much.

[jerrym]

Evans hobbles off the field. If he's not able to play Ticats down to their third string QB.

[jerrym]

Arbuckle what were you thinking on that pass that was almost intercepted?

[jerrym]

Arbuckle what were you thinking on that second pass that was almost intercepted?

[jerrym]

Arbuckle what were you thinking on that third pass that was intercepted?

[dmont]

Argos doing everything they can to lose this game.

[dmont]

Unbelievable...

[jerrym]

Missed PAT! Can the Argos avoid sabotaging a win?

[jerrym]

The Argos DL and OL won in the trenches setting up the Argo victory.

[dmont]

Praise the Lord...

[Mocha]

Phew. A victory is a victory.

The offense looked solid for three quarters. I hope they can figure out what caused the wheels to fall off in the fourth.

[dmont]

The good:

Oline was very good tonight. Arbuckle looked completely at ease for three quarters. Shane Richard's fills in admirably for Blake and the line doesnt miss a beat.

Dline also pretty good. Racking up the sacks, not giving up much on the run. Way to go Oakman, that's what I was hoping for! I thought Feeney looked good. Again, missing a big piece in Hugh's but still able to function well.

The run game. White and Foster both keys to the offense. When we get them going, we win.

The bad:

Argo secondary v. the run. Whenever a runner did make it to the second level, it usually ended up a big gain. Evan's made some DB look silly. Giving up YAC on a third down pass and giving hamilton the first down. Big run by Erlington to almost tie the game.

4th quarter Arbuckle. What are you doing, man? I know they got you playing conservative, but what was that? One embarassing interception and almost a second to adeleke. Also, overthrowing open receivers on deep balls. I dont like that.

Dejon Brisset. Weak hands. Couldn't come up with or hang on to the ball. Targeted a lot, but I cant remember him having any receptions.

Josh hagarty. I dont blame the kid because I'm sure hes doing his best, but hes out of his depth. Hes not on the same page as the other DBs. Getting beat on deep balls up the middle. I would rather have an import there and let colquon or boateng play.

Should have been a manageable 4th quarter, but became a comedy of errors, even with Hamilton's 3rd string qb in there. Very lucky to escape with the win.

[Antwon]

Arbuckle impressed with some accurate passes early. But then he had too many misses and ducks thrown in the second half. He did not look like a starting calibre QB. I'm old school and didn't like his smiles after some incompletions!
Also why do they play this game on the Friday? Short week shows. Should be Saturday and Sask/Wpg play Friday.

[Stevoman]

Winning is winning but the 4th quarter was brutal on both sides of the ball.

[Wobbler]

After that 7 minute drive (and FG) to open the second half, the offense basically went to sleep: the team only gained 19 yards in the last 23 minutes. They were very fortunate that Evans had to leave the game.

Nice to see consistent pressure (and sacks!) from the D-Line, though.

[Nob]

I was quite surprised by how well the OL and DL played, especially on a short week. That was the biggest difference of these two games.

The TiCats ran only 6 plays in the entire third quarter, but yet the Argos only scored 3 points with all of that time of possession. Clearly they needed to get more. And to compound that I’m not sure why they got away from the run game as quickly as they did. The OL was playing well, White was on fire, and the time of possession difference was so lopsided that on such a short week they could have, and should have, wore the Cats defence down. Bad play calling and Arbuckle doing some bad things (he doesn’t stay in the pocket well - he looks nervous back there and doesn’t look like he’s willing to take the hit to make the play. I could be wrong, but that was my thought). That late interception is in-ex-cuse-a-ble

Brissett ……. Yeah …No. Not impressed. Nothing good happened when the ball went his way.

The D needs to wrap up, and not just do shoulder checks. Too many missed tackles because they didn’t wrap.

Can’t comment on Haggerty. Only watched the game on tv. Tough to see how he was in coverage, but gave me heart palpitations when he let the Cat receiver by him on the last play of the half.

I don’t remember when I was ever this mad after a win, but I was. It should not have come down to that ending. But they are 3-2. I guess that’s better than expected.

[Shatto]

What a crazy game. To win by a convert hitting the post and bouncing out!!!--we will take it but a messy win. But as someone said --a win is a win.

Argos should have walked away with this game. They dominated time of possession and looked great until about half way through the 3rd quarter. For most of the game both the OL and DL played very well. For some reason or other Arbuckle looked completely lost in the 4th Q His interception late in the game came off, a very bad decision to throw the ball up for grabs.

Arbuckle had some difficulty completing long passes. He over or under threw deep receivers all game.

Brissett had a poor game but the other receivers looked very good. Collins and Rogers in particular, had excellent games.

On D, the front seven pressured Evans all game. Oakman, who seemed to be double teamed the whole game, had a monster game. Feeney and Harold were constantly in Hamilton's backfield, pressuring the QB. Feeney was injured late in the game. Hopefully it is not too serious as he looks as if he could be an important part to the team's defense.

Hagerty played hard and one day may be an excellent safety but it did look as if Hamilton were trying to attack him with the long ball. Both Boateng and Colquhoun stood on the sidelines all game. Surely one of those experienced DB's would have been better in the game than Hagerty.

Foster's TG was a thing of beauty. He looks like he could be a very exciting offense weapon for the team.

We are now 3 and 2 for the season. Better than most predicted.

[AngeloV]

Very sloppy game, but that can be expected in back to back in 4 days for both teams.
My honest opinion, Arbuckle was terrible tonight. Take away a gift 40 yards and a TD on the flip to Foster and his numbers would have been horrendous.
I can’t help but wonder if the improved D line play tonight had anything to do with the absence of Hughes. I hate to think so because he is so likable, but maybe age has caught up to him.
Hagerty is not ready to be a starting safety. The big eye opener for me was the last play of the first half. Not sure what he was doing there. A receiver shouldn’t be 10 yards behind the safety on the last play of a half.
Shoddy tackling on the last Hamilton TD drive. Not sure what Edwards was thinking on the 3rd and 10 completion to Acklin. He was 5 yards short and Edwards tried to body check him. Having said that, I don’t buy the thought that the Argos were lucky Evans left the game. Not like he put any points on the board in his 50 minutes of play.
Bede needs to improve on his punting too. He is capable of so much more.

Having said all that, a win is a win. A regular football week of 7 days between games will hopefully be what they need. They have that each of the next 2 weeks with 3 straight Friday night games.

[paulwoods13]

From where I sat, the Ticats had no business even being in the game. We let them into it with two huge mistakes (blocked punt and the late INT) and some shoddy tackling late in the game. I understand why people are mad at Arbuckle for that terrible throw off his back leg, but the blame for that falls squarely on the coach IMO. With two minutes left in a seven-point game, you run the ball, work the clock and rely on your kicker. Calling a pass play at that point was cocky and stupid. And judging by how much heat Hamilton brought on the QB on the play, a running play would almost certainly have gained a first down. I love how much confidence Dinwiddie has, but I guarantee he is second-guessing himself over that. We should have won this game easily but instead were life and death at the end. But a win's a win, and first place is first place.

I'm as big a fan of MBT as anybody, but I never once felt he should be subbed in. IMO Arbuckle looked calm and in control for the most part. He zipped some passes in. If he can develop a more accurate deep ball, he will be very tough to defend against. But I wish he would take off and run a bit more than he does. That late-game possession was begging for a QB keeper.

IMO that was the best game our o-line and d-line have played. The o-line opened up huge holes for White -- most of them on the left side behind Richards, it seemed to me. Outstanding games from Oakman, Harold and Feeney.

I wasn't as critical of Hagerty as some are; the safety always looks like the guy who got beat deep up the middle, but we don't always know what the secondary was supposed to be doing. That said, I was surprised we did not see Colquhoun or Boateng for at least a series or two. It could be that there is no one other than Butler and Hagerty suited to playing the safety position. But we need to clean up our coverage, and our tackling.

Worthy had a nice return early, was smart with the ball on his returns, and stretched the defence late on a pass that was slightly overthrown. I'd say he stays in the lineup. Collins really reminds me of Chad Owens -- not only his uniform number but his running style.

[Argo57]

“It’s not how but how many” applies here, beating Hamilton is always a wonderful thing.
Special teams coverage was very solid, kept Frankie Williams in check.
Argos O-Line had a good night, run blocking was superb.
Oakman and Harold played really well and made Dane Evans life miserable.
Arbuckle wasn’t good at all last night, some bad throws and piss poor decision making which will hopefully improve with more experience.

[ArgoZ]

Another wonderful, exciting night at BMO! To think we have beat Winnipeg and now Hamilton. What an undefeated fortress! Have to watch the game film, so my options might change a little.
MBT is currently at better QB, but I’d rather grow with Arbuckle despite his mistakes and I’ve said this since day 1. He was great in the first half. If he learns to hit those deep balls, this game is a blow out.
Speaking of deep balls, Worthy exposed this teams true lack of speed. He did great returning kicks. He needs to be in the roster and cutting him was stupid.
Love the RB combo. There so different, but work so well. John White’s hard running is awesome.
Hate to admit it, but looks like Brissett isn’t quite ready for the pros.
Glad to see Muamba and particularly Judge earning their pay.
Finally, I bought Paul Woods’ book at the Kiosk with my ST holder discount!

[Will]

It came down to an Argo Bounce or should I say an Argo Doink?

An ugly win I suppose, but beating the QEW people is always a positive.

[DanTheFan]

This one was more of mistakes on our end rather than any level of being outplayed. The last Arbuckle pick was a floater, but at least in post-game he admits to his errors. There were plenty of missed tackles, but late in the game it was fatigue playing in due to lack of possession time. Defense was solid for most of the game.

The day got off to a bad start at BMO for me. At first, security wasn't letting my brother and I bring our cowbells in, and I frantically scrambled with my phone to search for the BMO visitor policy. Thankfully, her supervisor corrected her after a while. It may have been the first Argos game she had worked this year, so I let it slide.

The atmosphere was fairly good I thought. Only my second game as a seasons holder, and I didn't see many familiar faces from the previous game. Maybe people are either sharing their tickets here or there aren't that many season ticket holders where I sit.

[AngeloV]

MBT is currently at better QB, but I’d rather grow with Arbuckle despite his mistakes and I’ve said this since day 1.

I agree, and when I said Arbucke was bad last night, I wasn't suggesting making a change.

[OV Argo]

A win is a win, as they say. Some nice positives, like the pass rush improving and the O-line run blocking (still very iffy at pass pro, IMO). Talented players on D, but still haven't gelled as a strong unit IMO.

Arbuckle did not play well though - inaccurate throws galore and that brain cramp INT is inexcusable; longest play of the game was basically a run play - that flip to Foster; I hope this offence doesn't defer to mostly dink & dunk, wimpy CFL pass offence most of the time - throw the GD ball down the field ! IF Arbuckle struggles like that again next game, I'd gladly see him pulled to see what MBT can do - go with a 2 QB theme until one establishes himself as very consistent and not a dumb decision maker. Not sure i'd continue with rookie Hagerty at safety - did nothing in coverage and also whiffed on a shot to tackle Erlington on his late TD run; I'd put a vet D play-maker like McCoil back there - there is no "ratio problem" Bs to say Hagerty has to play at safety when they easily have 7 or more starting Canadians elsewhere; Acheampong (did he play this game?) & Robbie Smith need to see plenty of playing time on the D-line.

[Will]

I did some rudimentary math using the CFL play-by-play summary. Nick Arbuckle was 15/17 for 159 yards and a touchdown prior to the endzone interception. He was 8/20 for 77 yards and a pair of interceptions after the endzone pick (well including that INT too). Yes, he did not play very well in the second half.

[Wobbler]

Nicastro looked pretty comfortable at center, which bodes well for the future. I think I saw two high snaps, but Arbuckle handled both without missing a beat.

[Wobbler]

I did some rudimentary math using the CFL play-by-play summary. Nick Arbuckle was 15/17 for 159 yards and a touchdown prior to the endzone interception. He was 8/20 for 77 yards and a pair of interceptions after the endzone pick (well including that INT too). Yes, he did not play very well in the second half.
He was 5/6 for 56 yards on the first drive of the second half, Will. It wasn't until after the FG that the offense died.

Actually, that's not quite right. The second possession started out OK, but nothing went right after Arbuckle was hit (and Hamilton took their RTP penalty) on his second completion to Collins. I wonder if he was actually injured on that play...

[AngeloV]

Nicastro looked pretty comfortable at center, which bodes well for the future. I think I saw two high snaps, but Arbuckle handled both without missing a beat.

You raise a good point. I am lobbying for Richards to stay at LG and figured Nicastro would be a great back up that can play C or LG, but after thinking about it, with Blake seemingly going down at least once a game so far, maybe he would be the better choice to play back up as he can play C, G and T. Limiting his smaps may also be good for his body at this stage.

[AngeloV]

I did some rudimentary math using the CFL play-by-play summary. Nick Arbuckle was 15/17 for 159 yards and a touchdown prior to the endzone interception. He was 8/20 for 77 yards and a pair of interceptions after the endzone pick (well including that INT too). Yes, he did not play very well in the second half.

His stats were misleading. Nothing but high percentage passes. Nothing in the seams or over the top. I will say this though, if Worthy was 6' tall instead of 5'8" he likely scores a TD. That was a very good throw as was his first pick that rookie Brissett failed to bring in. On the field goal in the second half, the 2nd down throw to Daniels was a bad one. I get he saw inside coverage and tried to make Daniels adjust to the back shoulder, but it was way off target. Complete that, likely score a TD instead of a short FG, and IMO, the game was over. Too many bad throws at key moments.

I will give him a pass though. Hard to be in sync when your practices prior to the game only consisted of walk throughs. Bad schedule. No reason why Ottawa/BC shouldn't have been played last night and Argos/Hamilton this afternoon.

[jerrym]

I love the dual back system of the Argos with White's strong running and DJ Foster who had almost exactly the same rushing and receiving yardage in college, which means he doubles as RB/WR. His 40 yarder was officially a pass reception but was really a run typifying the skills he brings to the game.

[Wobbler]

You raise a good point. I am lobbying for Richards to stay at LG and figured Nicastro would be a great back up that can play C or LG, but after thinking about it, with Blake seemingly going down at least once a game so far, maybe he would be the better choice to play back up as he can play C, G and T. Limiting his smaps may also be good for his body at this stage.
Blake is on the 6-game, so there really isn't much choice. But Nicastro looks good enough that I'd prefer to keep him there and let him learn on the job, even when Blake is healthy. Good point about Blake's versatility - he could dress as the only backup OL, freeing up space for another ST specialist (since that group seems to need help).

[paulwoods13]

Not sure i'd continue with rookie Hagerty at safety - did nothing in coverage and also whiffed on a shot to tackle Erlington on his late TD run; I'd put a vet D play-maker like McCoil back there - there is no "ratio problem" Bs to say Hagerty has to play at safety when they easily have 7 or more starting Canadians elsewhere; Acheampong (did he play this game?) & Robbie Smith need to see plenty of playing time on the D-line.

The Argos used 11 NATs fairly regularly through the game: Smith, Muamba, Judge and Hagerty on defence; four o-linemen, Gittens, Brissett and Cross on offence. They did not use Acheampong very much, and the two CBs played specials only. They definitely have enough NAT depth that Hagerty could easily be replaced by an INT. I like the idea of trying McCoil back there.

I will add that I am not on this sudden bandwagon of "Brissett's not ready to play pro ball." He looked great two weeks ago, and to my eyes the would-be TD last might was not an easy catch -- he had to reach back for it, and the DB made a strong, aggressive play. I can still hear all the cries of "cut Cross!" after he dropped a single pass as a rookie. Brissett will develop, and AFAIC he needs to continue seeing action on offence.

[paulwoods13]

Nicastro looked pretty comfortable at center, which bodes well for the future. I think I saw two high snaps, but Arbuckle handled both without missing a beat.

At least two high snaps -- it felt like more than that to me. But the o-line looked strong, especially on runs up the middle behind NiCastro and the two guards. IMO Richards looked tremendous in the running game.

[paulwoods13]

Good point about Blake's versatility - he could dress as the only backup OL, freeing up space for another ST specialist (since that group seems to need help).

I would completely oppose dressing just six o-linemen when the roster is 45. Just too risky, and unnecessary. We don't have Noel at the moment on specials, which hurts. But IMO there are enough good athletes available that we should not be surrendering blocked kicks or big returns regularly. Mark Nelson is a proven coach and I'm confident he will sort out the problems.

[Shatto]

Reflecting on yesterday's game there are a number of reasons to feel positive about this team:

The OL is young and relatively inexperienced but in spite of that they played an exceptionally good game. The individual players and the unit will get even better with time.

The DL was missing Hughes, Law, Ray, Nevis and Ealy but still managed to put pressure on Evans all game. Can't wait till some of these players return. Could be a case of almost too many good players.

Let's recognize, Arbuckle is a work in progress and should improve with experience. When I think of what could have been the alternative (Nichols), I feel a lot better.

[ArgoZ]

I will add that I am not on this sudden bandwagon of "Brissett's not ready to play pro ball." He looked great two weeks ago, and to my eyes the would-be TD last might was not an easy catch -- he had to reach back for it, and the DB made a strong, aggressive play. I can still hear all the cries of "cut Cross!" after he dropped a single pass as a rookie. Brissett will develop, and AFAIC he needs to continue seeing action on offence.

He looked great because he was wide open on his two catches. Forget the end zone catch, Brissett glaringly struggled with anything contested or surviving the hit. That’s hallmark for a rookie struggling with the closing speed and physicality of the pros. I agree it’s only one game, but there’s no ignoring that was disastrous for a first start. He needs to play, however his targets are going to go way down if the coach and QB lose some confidence in him and I fear that might happen after watching the film. The slot or Y doesn’t look like the place for him at all, so I’ll give him huge grace there. I can’t help but think how this game would have looked with Brecasin in there.

[Will]

test

[OV Argo]

I would completely oppose dressing just six o-linemen when the roster is 45. Just too risky, and unnecessary. We don't have Noel at the moment on specials, which hurts. But IMO there are enough good athletes available that we should not be surrendering blocked kicks or big returns regularly. Mark Nelson is a proven coach and I'm confident he will sort out the problems.

Calgary dressed just one back-up OL today; one got injured, and then a 2nd was injured but they were lucky the 1st injured one was able to go back in (playing nicked maybe) = it is plain stupidity to dress just one back-up OL on a large CFL roster of today - just IMO of course.

[Wobbler]

test
So it wasn't just me.

Seems to be working again now, though.

[Wobbler]

I would completely oppose dressing just six o-linemen when the roster is 45. Just too risky, and unnecessary. We don't have Noel at the moment on specials, which hurts. But IMO there are enough good athletes available that we should not be surrendering blocked kicks or big returns regularly. Mark Nelson is a proven coach and I'm confident he will sort out the problems.
There's no point in discussing the personnel aspect until Blake is healthy. My suggestion would be risky but I'm not yet convinced that it is unnecessary.

The regular season is nearly half over. Fingers crossed that Nelson will sort things out before the playoffs...

[AngeloV]

I would never go with only 6 o-lineman dressed.

[ArgoRavi]

I would never go with only 6 o-lineman dressed.

Nor would I. That's playing with trouble.

[jerrym]

I would never go with only 6 o-lineman dressed.

Amen.

[Will]

Nor would I. That's playing with trouble.

That's playing with fire.

[RB957]

His stats were misleading. Nothing but high percentage passes. Nothing in the seams or over the top. I will say this though, if Worthy was 6' tall instead of 5'8" he likely scores a TD. That was a very good throw as was his first pick that rookie Brissett failed to bring in. On the field goal in the second half, the 2nd down throw to Daniels was a bad one. I get he saw inside coverage and tried to make Daniels adjust to the back shoulder, but it was way off target. Complete that, likely score a TD instead of a short FG, and IMO, the game was over. Too many bad throws at key moments.

I will give him a pass though. Hard to be in sync when your practices prior to the game only consisted of walk throughs. Bad schedule. No reason why Ottawa/BC shouldn't have been played last night and Argos/Hamilton this afternoon.

I agree that Arbuckle did not have the best game, but I am not going to be as hard on him as some.... let's not forget, he only had 7 starts in Calgary filling in for Bo Levi Mitchell and that was almost two years ago. Missed a lot of training camp, and this was only his third start this season. So basically, less than one season's worth of work over two years. To be fair to him, the interception in the end zone wouldn't have happened if our receiver hadn't kneed the ball right into the defender's hands. As far as the second pick, my first impression at the time was he was trying to heave it out of bounds but didn't throw it far enough. If he was actually trying to complete a pass, then that is different. Very bad decision, but a coachable moment. He definitely has the arm strength to get the ball downfield, and I have seen enough positive things to believe he will be a strong contributor to our success. And while I have said before that MBT is not who we should be leaning on for the future, it is great to have him there. Other than perhaps Jeremiah Masoli, he is the best QB who is not starting in the league right now. And if anything does happen to Arbuckle, it is great to know we have him there as a very capable replacement. I just think we have to ride this kid all the way, and let him figure it out.

[RB957]

Another thing.... Am I ever glad we didn't stick with Matt Nichols. Phew.

[paulwoods13]

There's no point in discussing the personnel aspect until Blake is healthy. My suggestion would be risky but I'm not yet convinced that it is unnecessary.

The regular season is nearly half over. Fingers crossed that Nelson will sort things out before the playoffs...

If we are having an issue with special teams, wouldn't the most logical personnel response be to replace some of the special teams/backup players rather than take a chance we don't run into injuries on the o-line? We have 45 guys dressing for a game, 42 when we subtract the two kicking specialists and the backup QB. That means 18 backups, 16 if you remove two backup o-linemen. I think that's more than enough to staff up kick coverage and return teams. We have some guys on PR (like Mezzalira) who might be useful on ST.

[AngeloV]

If we are having an issue with special teams, wouldn't the most logical personnel response be to replace some of the special teams/backup players rather than take a chance we don't run into injuries on the o-line? We have 45 guys dressing for a game, 42 when we subtract the two kicking specialists and the backup QB. That means 18 backups, 16 if you remove two backup o-linemen. I think that's more than enough to staff up kick coverage and return teams. We have some guys on PR (like Mezzalira) who might be useful on ST.

7 is the minimum amount of O-lineman I would dress, and would seriously consider going with 8. Argos dressed 7 d-lineman last game, but have dressed 8 at times. I think that's too many. Also dressed 6 LB's between MIC and WIL last game. I think that's too many. Obviously that's ST related, but to me, injuries on the O-line in game can be massive.

[paulwoods13]

I agree seven is the minimum for o-line. Eight is a luxury if you can afford it, but I think seven is optimum. It's worth noting that both of our backups, Giffen and Churchill, spotted in on Friday, mostly on short-yardage downs. Playing seven is not a waste if the backups get on the field.

I don't have a problem with eight d-linemen if they rotate constantly.

Our depth chart on Friday showed six INT backups (in addition to Bede who was one of the four DIs). Five of them (McCoil, Harold, Mencer, Foster and Worthy) saw action on offence or defence -- Vontae Diggs played only specials, as far as I could see.

[Wobbler]

If we are having an issue with special teams, wouldn't the most logical personnel response be to replace some of the special teams/backup players rather than take a chance we don't run into injuries on the o-line?
Irrelevant. By the time Blake is back the season will be almost over. There is no choice other than to replace and/or re-train the ST players we have.

[AngeloV]

Irrelevant. By the time Blake is back the season will be almost over. There is no choice other than to replace and/or re-train the ST players we have.

You don’t know when Blake will be back. Many players have been pulled from the 6 game injured list early. Who’s to say he won’t be?

[Wobbler]

You don’t know when Blake will be back. Many players have been pulled from the 6 game injured list early. Who’s to say he won’t be?
Me, I guess.

An early pull from the 6 game list happens less than 10% of the time.

[paulwoods13]

Whether or not Blake comes back early, I think there is no chance we will dress just six o-linemen. If special teams are an issue, it will be dealt with by coaching up and/or replacing special teamers, not by weakening the one position group that has little impact on special teams. And I don't see special teams as close to a crisis. Two blocked kicks is certainly cause for concern, as is one kick-return TD allowed. But our own lack of big returns seems to be primarily due to not having a game-breaking returner. And it doesn't help that we are missing a couple of guys who figured to be primary players on specials. This is much ado about not so much, IMO.

[AngeloV]

I don't have a problem with eight d-linemen if they rotate constantly.



This is where we disagree. The Argos show a lot of 3 man fronts. To me, they should not be dressing more than 6 D-lineman. You also don't want to rotate too much on the D-line. Maybe the back-ups play 2 or 3 series in a game. A D-lineman needs to be out there to get into the game. I think staying fresh is over exaggerated. An offence that can stay on the field is all you need to keep these guys fresh.