If/when everyone is healthy, who are your starters?

[Wobbler]

The silver lining in the 2021 injury parade has been the opportunity evaluate many of the Argo backups. After seeing them in action, who would you play when everyone is available?

My proposal is:

Peters-Richardson-Butler-DeCoud-Colquhoun
Diggs-Muamba-Edwards (+McCoil in 3-4)
Hughes-Oakman-Nevis-Harold (-Oakman in 3-4)

Allen-Nicastro-Blake-Bladek-Campbell
Daniels-Rogers-Collins-Brescacin-Worthy
Arbuckle-Foster

- The current secondary seems fine. Colquhoun hasn't been tested as thoroughly the others but he seems OK and I think a NAT is needed there
- Muamba and Edwards have been very good. Diggs didn't seem comfortable at MIKE, but I think he's an upgrade on Judge at SAM
- Hughes has been "just OK" and I was tempted to put Corderro Law or Feeny there, but CH deserves a chance in the new defense. Nevis hasn't played a down for this team but I'd start him based on his history. Plus I think he's a more natural nose guard than Oakman in 3-front
- Nicastro has done well at center as has Richards at guard, but I think *this* OL was the highest performing group
- Worthy has added a new element to the receiving corps and I think field WR should be his home. I hate to take Gittens off the board but based on history Brescacin should start
- Both QBs have looked really good but Arbuckle is still the 1A guy, IMO. Similarly, I regard Foster as the 1A RB and White as 1B, but I assume that the team will continue to use both

[AngeloV]

No chance I would start Diggs over McCoil. McCoil has been there best defensive player all year followed by Richardson.

[Wobbler]

If/when everyone is healthy, who are your starters, Angelo?

[Shatto]

I would agree with most of Wobbler's proposal but with a few notable changes:

Peters-Richardson-Edwards-Decoud-Daniel
Judge-Muamba-McCoil
Feeney-Oakman-Nevis-Harold

Allen-Blake-Nicastro-Bladek-Campbell
Daniels-Rogers-Collins-Brescacin-Worthy
BTM-Foster

-Basically the team is built around the best 7 Canadians on the roster. In that regard, I believe Judge to be a superior player to Colquhoun and that allows Daniel to play CB.
-McCoil needs to be on the field as much as possible, so should be starting, which then allows the superb Edwards to replace Butler.
-It was with some regret that Hughes is replaced by Feeney but Hughes could still be effective as a rotational player, which would keep him fresher.
-I struggled with the Harold/Ray decision but Harold has played well enough to deserve to be a starter.
-Nicastro is growing as a center and should continue to get better which means Blake can play guard, which is his strongest position.
-I hate having to leave Gittens and Jeanpierre off as I believe both have good futures in the league but can't see them beating out any of the five proposed receivers.
-BTM over Arbuckle was a tough decision but IMO, BTM gives the team a better chance of winning at this time. However, Arbuckle would be my choice for the future.

[AngeloV]

If/when everyone is healthy, who are your starters, Angelo?

When healthy, I expect this:
DB’s I replace Peters from your group with Robertson Daniel.
LB I have McCoil over Diggs assuming Judge is out for a while. But with Jones there, I see McCoil starting regardless. Played great under Jones in Edmonton as I will stress, he’s been the best defensive player on the team.
DL I have Ray starting over Harold
Receiver I have Gittens over Worthy who will return kicks and see some spot duty in O.
And I don’t see a change coming at RB. They will comtinue to use White and Foster as they have been.
O-line I agree with you, but they might just relegate Blake to back up that can play any of the spots.

EDIT: By the way..full disclosure. I misunderstood the thread and posted who I believe the Argos will use as their starters.

[AngeloV]

I would agree with most of Wobbler's proposal but with a few notable changes:

Peters-Richardson-Edwards-Decoud-Daniel
Judge-Muamba-McCoil
Feeney-Oakman-Nevis-Harold

Allen-Blake-Nicastro-Bladek-Campbell
Daniels-Rogers-Collins-Brescacin-Worthy
BTM-Foster

-Basically the team is built around the best 7 Canadians on the roster. In that regard, I believe Judge to be a superior player to Colquhoun and that allows Daniel to play CB.
-McCoil needs to be on the field as much as possible, so should be starting, which then allows the superb Edwards to replace Butler.
-It was with some regret that Hughes is replaced by Feeney but Hughes could still be effective as a rotational player, which would keep him fresher.
-I struggled with the Harold/Ray decision but Harold has played well enough to deserve to be a starter.
-Nicastro is growing as a center and should continue to get better which means Blake can play guard, which is his strongest position.
-I hate having to leave Gittens and Jeanpierre off as I believe both have good futures in the league but can't see them beating out any of the five proposed receivers.
-BTM over Arbuckle was a tough decision but IMO, BTM gives the team a better chance of winning at this time. However, Arbuckle would be my choice for the future.

My biggest issue is you having McCoil at SAM. He would struggle covering some really good slot backs there. He's more suited at weak side.

[paulwoods13]

I don't see Shane Richards coming out of the starting lineup, so I think Blake is in tough when he gets healthy. I'd like to see Nevis play a game or two, and Ray, Harold and Daniel play some more, before deciding whether or not they should be in the final lineup. White and Foster will continue to rotate in one-back sets. I've been hot and cold on Feeney,. and have yet to see much of anything noteworthy from Diggs. The young NAT receivers, especially Gittens, will need to keep getting some offensive snaps but it will be nice to see what Brescacin brings.

[CrazyCanuck89]

The silver lining in the 2021 injury parade has been the opportunity evaluate many of the Argo backups. After seeing them in action, who would you play when everyone is available?

My proposal is:

Peters-Richardson-Butler-DeCoud-Colquhoun
Diggs-Muamba-Edwards (+McCoil in 3-4)
Hughes-Oakman-Nevis-Harold (-Oakman in 3-4)

Allen-Nicastro-Blake-Bladek-Campbell
Daniels-Rogers-Collins-Brescacin-Worthy
Arbuckle-Foster

- The current secondary seems fine. Colquhoun hasn't been tested as thoroughly the others but he seems OK and I think a NAT is needed there
- Muamba and Edwards have been very good. Diggs didn't seem comfortable at MIKE, but I think he's an upgrade on Judge at SAM
- Hughes has been "just OK" and I was tempted to put Corderro Law or Feeny there, but CH deserves a chance in the new defense. Nevis hasn't played a down for this team but I'd start him based on his history. Plus I think he's a more natural nose guard than Oakman in 3-front
- Nicastro has done well at center as has Richards at guard, but I think *this* OL was the highest performing group
- Worthy has added a new element to the receiving corps and I think field WR should be his home. I hate to take Gittens off the board but based on history Brescacin should start
- Both QBs have looked really good but Arbuckle is still the 1A guy, IMO. Similarly, I regard Foster as the 1A RB and White as 1B, but I assume that the team will continue to use both

Judge doesn't play SAM, he plays WILL. Edwards is the SAM.

[ArgoZ]

Judge doesn't play SAM, he plays WILL. Edwards is the SAM.

Judge can play all three. One of his strengths is his versatility. He also played spectacular under Jones in Sask. Hard to tell the difference between Sam and Will in the CFL anyway. Considering how well Judge has played his last two games, plus his highest paid LB salary, he starts when healthy.

[AngeloV]

Judge can play all three. One of his strengths is his versatility. He also played spectacular under Jones in Sask. Hard to tell the difference between Sam and Will in the CFL anyway. Considering how well Judge has played his last two games, plus his highest paid LB salary, he starts when healthy.

Judge can’t play SAM. He would get killed if he had to cover a SB 1 on 1. He gets great drops from WILL, but that is strictly in a zone. I don’t even want think McCoil would be very good at SAM, but still a better choice than Judge. Edwards is perfect for SAM and Richardson would be my 2nd choice if Edwards were to go down.

[OV Argo]

Judge can’t play SAM. He would get killed if he had to cover a SB 1 on 1. He gets great drops from WILL, but that is strictly in a zone. I don’t even want think McCoil would be very good at SAM, but still a better choice than Judge. Edwards is perfect for SAM and Richardson would be my 2nd choice if Edwards were to go down.

That's IF you expect your W-OLB to be just an extra cover DB; you don't have to line-up that way all the time - as I have pointed out, the Bombers have gone to lots of 3 true LB look the past few games, and I noticed BC doing it some last game; didn't see those defences getting killed by the pass with their bigger, true LB trying to cover a receiver man to man.

The Argos could line up a LB crew (some of the time) with Muamba flanked by McCoil & Judge - who are both quick enough to do well dropping in coverage if need be. McCoil played safety i believe when he went down to the NFL.

[AngeloV]

That's IF you expect your W-OLB to be just an extra cover DB; you don't have to line-up that way all the time - as I have pointed out, the Bombers have gone to lots of 3 true LB look the past few games, and I noticed BC doing it some last game; didn't see those defences getting killed by the pass with their bigger, true LB trying to cover a receiver man to man.

The Argos could line up a LB crew (some of the time) with Muamba flanked by McCoil & Judge - who are both quick enough to do well dropping in coverage if need be. McCoil played safety i believe when he went down to the NFL.

But we weren't talking about WILL. We were talking about SAM. SAM plays a lot of man to man coverage on SB's. As I said, I don't think Judge can handle that, and although McCoil might be better than Judge at coverage, playing safety in the NFL usually would be up against a TE of free. When Muamba, McCoil and Judge are all on the field, so is Edwards, and the Argos are using a 3 man front. Edwards isn't coming off the field, so really it is a moot point. Judge will never line up at SAM.

You're also wrong about the Bombers playing 3 true LB's this year. They started Mike Jones (a DB) the first 3 games at SAM and Alden Darby every game since. You may occasionally see 3 LB's in there, but I suspect like the Argos do they take out a DT and show a 3 man front when they bring in the extra LB.

[Rich]

It’s interesting that Chris Jones arrives in the midst of major personnel turnover on D. It sorta gives him the opportunity to “reset” the unit to better suit his philosophy, and that very well may be the thing that ultimately lured him up here. The starting D lineup may end up looking considerably different than some have speculated here.

Law, Ealy, Ray and Cassar are all due to join the active roster sooner or later, and we know how Jones loves the big names — he’s gonna give these guys a long look. And what about those suspended guys, we were told that some of them could return for the second half of the season. If even two of Foote, Shortill, Kwemo or Woodson returned, this D could hit an even higher level.

[Wobbler]

Judge doesn't play SAM, he plays WILL. Edwards is the SAM.
Very true. Typo!

[Wobbler]

There are lots of good ideas in this thread. Thanks, guys.

I am promoting Diggs to starter on scant evidence, I admit. But Judge's extended absence is a useful opportunity to try others in that spot. I agree that Judge is a more proven talent than Colquhoun, Shatto, but WILL is a more important position than FCB.

Believe me, everyone, I am not trying to take McCoil off the field. It's just that a fully healthy team seems to have a slightly better guy at every position unless we're using 4 LB. If (as expected?) Muamba returns vs Ottawa and McCoil out-practices Diggs to get the start at WILL I will not complain.

Peters had some rough games early on, Angelo, but he seems to be getting better - i.e. more invisible - and I wasn't looking to replace him. Why do you favour Daniel?

As I've said before, Gittens is great and he need more reps. But why is he worthy of starting over Worthy, Angelo? IMO the main reason the Argos won last week is that a burner joined the receiving corps full-time (-ish).

[Shatto]

Thanks for the exercise---lot's of fun--even when we disagree.

[AngeloV]

T
Peters had some rough games early on, Angelo, but he seems to be getting better - i.e. more invisible - and I wasn't looking to replace him. Why do you favour Daniel?
As I've said before, Gittens is great and he need more reps. But why is he worthy of starting over Worthy, Angelo? IMO the main reason the Argos won last week is that a burner joined the receiving corps full-time (-ish).

.

Daniel won the job in TC, only played one game, and to me, looked very good. I agree Peters has looked good, but to me not good enough to take a job due to injury. I love Worthy and thought he should have started the season based on the way he finished 2019. I still have him on the roster returning kicks and likely getting about 10 snaps a game on O, but I still start Gittens. The more he plays, the better he will get. Hasn't made any glaring errors either. I also like to start more than 7 Canadians. Makes for much better substitution packages.

[RB957]

I would agree with most of Wobbler's proposal but with a few notable changes:


BTM-Foster

-BTM over Arbuckle was a tough decision but IMO, BTM gives the team a better chance of winning at this time. However, Arbuckle would be my choice for the future.

No. I don't agree with this. McLeod has played well this year, and arguably had maybe one of his better outings against the Als in the last game. But we have seen this before with him, where he has these great flashes and then falls back to earth. Also, he is NOT a long-term solution. Even if you argue that the two QB's are 1A and 1B, then Arbuckle has to be 1A in my opinion. The Argos have lost too many good young QB's to other teams in the past few years, and I don't want it to happen again. Start Arbuckle and if he falters, it is great to have MBT as your #2.

[paulwoods13]

The Argos have lost too many good young QB's to other teams in the past few years, and I don't want it to happen again. Start Arbuckle and if he falters, it is great to have MBT as your #2.

But as noted above, Arbuckle is signed for this year only. Even if you anoint him the starter in hopes of keeping him, that is not guaranteed. At least one other franchise will be in the market for a starting QB next year.

[RB957]

But as noted above, Arbuckle is signed for this year only. Even if you anoint him the starter in hopes of keeping him, that is not guaranteed. At least one other franchise will be in the market for a starting QB next year.

We would not be anointing him in hopes of keeping him, we let him start to show what he truly has, so that we know whether he is worth signing longer term at the end of the season. If he is signed for only one year, then there is always a risk he could go elsewhere anyway. I don't think there is any real disagreement that MBT is a good player to have, but we are not building a franchise around him at this stage of his career in a QB driven league.

[Shatto]

We would not be anointing him in hopes of keeping him, we let him start to show what he truly has, so that we know whether he is worth signing longer term at the end of the season. If he is signed for only one year, then there is always a risk he could go elsewhere anyway. I don't think there is any real disagreement that MBT is a good player to have, but we are not building a franchise around him at this stage of his career in a QB driven league.


But perhaps we could build a winning season around MBT at this time and that is the point --who is most capable of winning for us this season. It wasn't long ago we thought Franklin was our future franchise QB. Nobody is saying Arbuckle is another Franklin but he hasn't proven that he is a top flight QB at this point of time. He is good and hopefully will become even better but is MBT a better QB at this point of time? If the answer is yes, then he should be the stating QB.

[argolio]

is MBT a better QB at this point of time? If the answer is yes, then he should be the stating QB.Not substantially better for me, so I'd start the younger guy.


Arbuckle only being signed for this year is a total non-factor for me. The majority of the roster is on an expiring contract. If the Argos really want to re-sign him, they'll make it happen.

[AngeloV]

I too would start Arbuckle IF and WHEN he is healthy. I think his hamstring injuries have had him playing at less than 100% all year, and not allowed him to use his legs to the best of his ability. Until he can do that, I stick with MBT.

[paulwoods13]

The majority of the roster is on an expiring contract.

Sure, but the only position anyone accuses the Argos of failing to keep their promising players is QB, and the same suggestion has been implicitly made in this case -- Trevor Harris blah blah blah. The point is that whether or not we play Arbuckle, he might leave. The idea that if the Argos want him to stay, they will make it happen seems plausible, but the fact they couldn't convince Bo to sign despite offering way more money than Calgary did undermines that argument IMO. A guy like Arbuckle might be happy to sign for less in a market that cares more about football and costs less to live in.

[paulwoods13]

We would not be anointing him in hopes of keeping him, we let him start to show what he truly has, so that we know whether he is worth signing longer term at the end of the season. If he is signed for only one year, then there is always a risk he could go elsewhere anyway. I don't think there is any real disagreement that MBT is a good player to have, but we are not building a franchise around him at this stage of his career in a QB driven league.

Teams build franchises around guys who are both proven and signed long-term. If Arbuckle was on a 3-year deal, it's a whole different discussion. But he was given freedom to walk away when he was signed to a one-year deal.

[AngeloV]

Sure, but the only position anyone accuses the Argos of failing to keep their promising players is QB, and the same suggestion has been implicitly made in this case -- Trevor Harris blah blah blah. The point is that whether or not we play Arbuckle, he might leave. The idea that if the Argos want him to stay, they will make it happen seems plausible, but the fact they couldn't convince Bo to sign despite offering way more money than Calgary did undermines that argument IMO. A guy like Arbuckle might be happy to sign for less in a market that cares more about football and costs less to live in.

I see the only team that might be looking for a starting QB is Ottawa. Somehow, after what happened to him, I can't see Arbuckle having any interest in going back there. Unless the NFL is an option, I see no way he doesn't return here next year.

[RB957]

I too would start Arbuckle IF and WHEN he is healthy. I think his hamstring injuries have had him playing at less than 100% all year, and not allowed him to use his legs to the best of his ability. Until he can do that, I stick with MBT.

I agree with Angelo here 100%. Arbuckle should not start if he is not 100% simply because we have MBT as a legitimate fall-back.


... The point is that whether or not we play Arbuckle, he might leave. The idea that if the Argos want him to stay, they will make it happen seems plausible, but the fact they couldn't convince Bo to sign despite offering way more money than Calgary did undermines that argument IMO. A guy like Arbuckle might be happy to sign for less in a market that cares more about football and costs less to live in.

Maybe Arbuckle would leave, but guaranteed MBT will stay, because he really has nowhere else to go. So what do we lose by playing Arbuckle if he is healthy? Nothing. And we gain the chance to see if this guy COULD be the guy. As far as Bo Levi Mitchell not leaving Calgary, the money was probably not the issue. He has established huge roots there, is closer to home in the U.S., and probably has side gigs already on the go. Plus, the Argos situation at the time was very unsettled. Under that scenario, I was not surprised at all that he didn't come East.


Teams build franchises around guys who are both proven and signed long-term. If Arbuckle was on a 3-year deal, it's a whole different discussion. But he was given freedom to walk away when he was signed to a one-year deal.

He also has the freedom to stay. And if the right environment is created to make him want to stay, then that makes the Argos chances that much better, especially since he has a proven comfort level with this head coach.

[paulwoods13]

I see the only team that might be looking for a starting QB is Ottawa. Somehow, after what happened to him, I can't see Arbuckle having any interest in going back there. Unless the NFL is an option, I see no way he doesn't return here next year.

I wouldn't count on Edm wanting Harris back next season. Just gut instinct at this point.

[AngeloV]

I wouldn't count on Edm wanting Harris back next season. Just gut instinct at this point.

If Sunderland is back, so will Harris be.