Nick Arbuckle traded to Elks

[Will]

As per Dunk and Naylor.

I realize he could've walked in the offseason, but I still think Argos are making a mistake.

[Mocha]

Do they just like Pipkin more than Arbuckle now?

Is it a salary cap move?

Odd timing, but let's see what happens.

[ArgoZ]

Well, I got this one wrong! Edmonton was the only destination I had in mind though. Argos give Edmonton their starter for nothing! Hard to figure out the CFL somedays. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes. Impossible to comprehend without some honest forthcomings. MBT is our man. Good thing I said I liked him :D

[Antwon]

Well I don't get this when we're fighting for first place and a possible playoff game.

He was brought in as the QB of the future. I won't go on a rant as we don't know all the reasons.
-did he just not play up to expectations compared to MBT, then Pipkin?
-did he have a poor work ethic/distraction in the dressing room
-let it be known he didn't like Toronto and wouldn't resign
-traded for cap reasons
-Argos are already eyeing available QB's coming up this off season

For now it's all on MBT and Pipkin if he goes down.

[argotom]

I do not get this trade. Especially after MBT 4 picks and arguably his worst game of the season.
For me Arbuckle was the number 1 and would have started this weekend.
I have not been on this site for a while, however on another issue I am sure someone has mentioned or started a thread about the ludicrous league decision to go with 2 QB's instead of the traditional 3.
Which idiot decided on this and is it all $ related?
There are plenty of examples already about teams playing a non QB, Ottawa comes to mind earlier.
Not to mention how this weekend BC were required to go with Reilly in the 4th quarter after the game was lost when the back up Canadian Rourke was hurt before even playing.
Bring back the 3rd QB in time for the playoffs.....or sooner.

[AngeloV]

Well, I am not overjoyed with this trade, but I did see it coming as I posted in the game day thread when the depth chart came out last Thursday.

http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?6594-Week-12-Argos-at-Alouettes-October-22-2021&p=156049&viewfull=1#post156049

I was actually going to start a thread of how I thought the Argos should start Arbuckle this week, and we all know how big a backer of MBT I am. I just think he deserved another look because losing your spot to injury sucks. Now, Kelly is an interesting prospect if they can sign him. He put up some really good numbers at Ole Miss. I was thinking the Argos would be trying to get someone like Sir Vincent Rogers out of this deal though.

I wonder if he asked for a trade after being demoted. Argos must really be high on Pipken to make this move at this time. To me, the worst part of this trade is that thought "Does anyone in Toronto know who Arbuckle is? Other than us hard core Argos fans.

[AngeloV]

There are plenty of examples already about teams playing a non QB, Ottawa comes to mind earlier.
.

Though I agree with your thoughts on 2 QB's compared to three, you said there are plenty of examples. Other than the one that "comes to mind" name another time a non QB had to play QB in the CFL due to in game injury.

[argolio]

I can understand if they don't think Arbuckle is the QB of the future, but this is the stretch run, we're in a super-competitive three-way race, and it's extremely uncertain that Pipkin is a legit #2. Why make this trade now?

As for Chad Kelly, he's a very talented player. He also has a history of being a headcase. They better get this right.

[Shatto]

Well I don't get this when we're fighting for first place and a possible playoff game.

He was brought in as the QB of the future. I won't go on a rant as we don't know all the reasons.
-did he just not play up to expectations compared to MBT, then Pipkin?
-did he have a poor work ethic/distraction in the dressing room
-let it be known he didn't like Toronto and wouldn't resign
-traded for cap reasons
-Argos are already eyeing available QB's coming up this off season

For now it's all on MBT and Pipkin if he goes down.

All of those questions are pertinent. I wonder if it is a combination of things--attitude/risk of him not re-signing/free up money for either OL or DL help/etc
I just get the feeling there is another shoe about to drop. Guess we will have to wait and see what develops.

[AngeloV]

He also has a history of being a headcase.

He's just misunderstood. Not like that James Wilder fellow. ;)

[paulwoods13]

It's been clear (to me at least) for weeks that Dinwiddie likes MBT more than Arbuckle, and that he really likes Pipkin. I would have liked to get more for Arbuckle than a draft pick and a neg list QB, but if he was down to third on the depth chart (which last week's roster suggested), then it would not be super tenable to keep him as the highest paid QB on the roster. Sooner or later that situation would get ugly. So move on from a guy who, it must be noted, has started all of 11 CFL games, with his team winning six of those and with him showing promises of greatness mixed with a disturbing proclivity to turn the ball over.

[Stevoman]

The 1 year deal he was on is definitely a factor but I was really hoping to have both for the playoff run. In fact, as much as I think MBT is a warrior, I was hoping for Arbuckle to start this week. Sadly, he is added to the list of QB's that I had high hopes for that the Argos have given up on or that never panned out.

Since I've been following the team, that list includes:
1. Matt Dungian
2. Rickey Foggie
3. Tracy Ham
4. Marvin Graves
5. Andre Ware
6. Jay Barker
7. Marcus Brady
8. Michael Bishop
9. Zach Collaros
10. Trevor Harris
11. Cody Fajardo
12. James Franklin
13. Nick Arbuckle

[RB957]

It's been clear (to me at least) for weeks that Dinwiddie likes MBT more than Arbuckle, and that he really likes Pipkin. I would have liked to get more for Arbuckle than a draft pick and a neg list QB, but if he was down to third on the depth chart (which last week's roster suggested), then it would not be super tenable to keep him as the highest paid QB on the roster. Sooner or later that situation would get ugly. So move on from a guy who, it must be noted, has started all of 11 CFL games, with his team winning six of those and with him showing promises of greatness mixed with a disturbing proclivity to turn the ball over.

I think you are right, but that doesn't make this situation right. Like others have mentioned, I wonder what else is going on behind the scenes. I guess it's the good ship MBT for the rest of this season.

[ArgoGabe22]

I wonder who his agent is? Perhaps they made such high demands that the Argos didn't think it was worth it. I'm sure Arbuckle wanted to eventually re-sign for more money and of course, more guarantee of being the guy going forward. Can't say I'm happy, he's still young but if he wanted to leave then what can you do? Might as well of traded for Harris, but I don't think Argos could afford that. I just find it odd because I thought Dinwiddie-Arbuckle was almost a package.

[argotom]

Though I agree with your thoughts on 2 QB's compared to three, you said there are plenty of examples. Other than the one that "comes to mind" name another time a non QB had to play QB in the CFL due to in game injury.


You are right, there is only the one example in Ottawa early on.
But there are others involving lack of strategy since there are only 2 QB's.
If I recall last weekend in the Ottawa debacle RNation stayed with Duck and there is no question would have gone with the third QB had there been one on the roster since he was unimpressive.
That team needs to have an open full game competition with 3 QB's on the roster and all playing for next year.
Again, I don't understand this move as it makes the league seem bush and again going back to Reilly, ok who is not having a good year, he had to play almost the entire 4th quarter when the rookie backup was deemed injured. Can you imagine if he got hurt while playing in garbage time?

[Skilz]

Great trade in my opinion. We ride or die with MBT.
Behind the scenes maybe Nick was offered a one year extension - he may have balked; seeking a starters position and starters cash.

Having him walk for nothing is probably not the best going forward for the team. Dangerous ? Sure. Risky surely. One bad hit and Pipkin comes in.

But a worthy move with Kelly to negotiate with. I bet he signs this next season under MBT or Pipkin plus a likely second round pick to boot.


Great value for someone who fell in our lap for nothing..

[Mocha]

I do not get this trade. Especially after MBT 4 picks and arguably his worst game of the season.
For me Arbuckle was the number 1 and would have started this weekend.
I have not been on this site for a while, however on another issue I am sure someone has mentioned or started a thread about the ludicrous league decision to go with 2 QB's instead of the traditional 3.
Which idiot decided on this and is it all $ related?
There are plenty of examples already about teams playing a non QB, Ottawa comes to mind earlier.
Not to mention how this weekend BC were required to go with Reilly in the 4th quarter after the game was lost when the back up Canadian Rourke was hurt before even playing.
Bring back the 3rd QB in time for the playoffs.....or sooner.

A few teams have dressed three QBs this season. It's up to the coach to decide on the roster. IIRC, if they dress a third QB, they must dress one fewer designated import.

A thought occurred to me about the trade: what is Arbuckle's vaccination status? Could it be that he's refusing to be vaxxed?

Having said that, I believe the league's policy would allow him, as an Argo based in Toronto, to continue playing in any East timezone games, which includes the Grey Cup. But I'm not 100% sure on that policy.

[Argo57]

I can understand if they don't think Arbuckle is the QB of the future, but this is the stretch run, we're in a super-competitive three-way race, and it's extremely uncertain that Pipkin is a legit #2. Why make this trade now?

As for Chad Kelly, he's a very talented player. He also has a history of being a headcase. They better get this right.

I share your concerns, better hope MBT stays healthy as we just traded our insurance policy at QB which is concerning considering the recent performance of the O-Line.
In fairness to Arbuckle he has been injured for a good stretch of the season and hasn’t been able to truly show his potential.
What we did see of him were some moments of promise mixed with some poor on field decisions and a tendency to fumble the football.
The writing was on the wall when Arbuckle was dropped to third string on the depth chart.
You are correct, hopefully they have made the correct decision, time will tell.

[ArgoGabe22]

I don’t hate MBT and I know Dinwiddie has to show his support for his guy going forward but calling MBT the face of franchise just doesn’t seem right to me.

[AngeloV]

I don’t hate MBT and I know Dinwiddie has to show his support for his guy going forward but calling MBT the face of franchise just doesn’t seem right to me.

Like it or not, QB is the most high profile and scrutinized (as evident on this forum) player on any football team. By default, that makes them the face of their franchises.

[Shatto]

A team can dress 3 QB's but as Mocha points out, the 3rd QB would normally reduce their designated imports by one. Theoretically, this should encourage any coach wishing to dress a 3rd QB, to use a Canadian QB. The impact wouldn't be as significant on the playing roster since most of the Canadians (apart from required 7 starters) are used as back ups or rotational players. This is not to justify how Canadian players are utilized but just recognizing reality.

There are some exceptionally athletic Canadian QB's around and it raises the question why none have been utilized in this manner.

[OV Argo]

So if Arbuckle re-signs with the EE for next season, the draft pick gets upgraded to a 2nd rounder? - given the EE position, that could mean an 11th overall? - which could turn-out pretty sweet (yet another O_lineman ?; or there are a number of interesting safety prospects up for the 2022 draft - could join Hagerty in competition and hope one of them comes on to be a good starter).

[Rich]

But a worthy move with Kelly to negotiate with. I bet he signs this next season.

yeah maybe Kelly will be the next “QB of the Future” :-) For sure, he’s a nice prospect and I’d like to see him here, but we shouldn’t forget we’ve already got a nice QB prospect on the PR, Cole McDonald, who now moves up to #3 and starts getting into the mix.

[Rich]

It's been clear (to me at least) for weeks that Dinwiddie likes MBT more than Arbuckle

Three different Argo coaches have now picked MBT over the guy who was supposed to be #1. Coaches fall in love with this guy, and it’s easy to see why. No big ego. Total team guy. First one into film room, and the last one to leave. Durable as hell on the field. Great practice player. Capable of tossing big numbers. He’s a coach’s dream.

To be honest I didn’t think Arbuckle performed any better than MBT this year. After game 2 in Winnipeg I thought Arby’s mobility gave him a big edge over MBT, but he never looked as mobile after that. It would really be a shame and really kinda unfair if injury prevented Arby from showing what he really had.

In any case this is MBT’s team yet again, and while I feel he’s too inconsistent to be a Cup champion QB, I’m pulling for the guy, it’s hard not to like him. But I’ll also be calling for Pipkin next time MBT inevitably lays another egg out there.

[Rich]

Like it or not, QB is the most high profile and scrutinized (as evident on this forum) player on any football team. By default, that makes them the face of their franchises.

The problem is that MBT was also the face of back-to-back 4-14 seasons, and every time he struggles, those unpleasant memories come flooding back to many of us. It’s like déjà vu all over again.

[Wobbler]

If the "face of the franchise" idea matters (big if), it would be for selling the team to potential new fans who won't be familiar with the team's past incompetence. Those of us who are already fans don't need to be told which players are the biggest contributors.

[paulwoods13]

This "face of the franchise" thing seems a bit of a stretch. How many true "faces of the franchise" have we had in the past four decades? Holloway, Pinball and Flutie, maybe. Ricky Ray may have been the face of the team around the league, but he was anonymous enough to be able to take the GO Train to games without being approached by folks on the train. Chad Owens had a very low profile beyond hard-core fans.

[AngeloV]

This "face of the franchise" thing seems a bit of a stretch. How many true "faces of the franchise" have we had in the past four decades? Holloway, Pinball and Flutie, maybe. Ricky Ray may have been the face of the team around the league, but he was anonymous enough to be able to take the GO Train to games without being approached by folks on the train. Chad Owens had a very low profile beyond hard-core fans.

Who is the most hated man on the team when they lose? It's MBT. So like it or not, as the QB, he is the face of the franchise.

[jerrym]

I do not get this trade. Especially after MBT 4 picks and arguably his worst game of the season.
For me Arbuckle was the number 1 and would have started this weekend.
I have not been on this site for a while, however on another issue I am sure someone has mentioned or started a thread about the ludicrous league decision to go with 2 QB's instead of the traditional 3.
Which idiot decided on this and is it all $ related?
There are plenty of examples already about teams playing a non QB, Ottawa comes to mind earlier.
Not to mention how this weekend BC were required to go with Reilly in the 4th quarter after the game was lost when the back up Canadian Rourke was hurt before even playing.
Bring back the 3rd QB in time for the playoffs.....or sooner.


Though I agree with your thoughts on 2 QB's compared to three, you said there are plenty of examples. Other than the one that "comes to mind" name another time a non QB had to play QB in the CFL due to in game injury.
In that game Nate Behar showed no signs of being a QB.

It also happened last week. Mike Reilly went down with an injury. Nathan Rourke then went down with a shoulder injury. BC's solution. Throw Reilly back into the 30-0 game because there was no third string QB. Reilly took a lot of punishment as he limped all over the field and the team was lucky not to lose him to a major injury. In fact, we still are not sure if there are long term impacts of sending Reilly back in. We are playing Russian roulette at QB in terms of injury. Pipkin looks good at short yardage offence but still hasn't demonstrated he can consistently perform as a starter or backup taking over for a large part of the game.

When you're heading into the playoffs with the best team you've had in several years, teams in every sport usually trade to get better immediately, even going for free agents that are not certain to sign up for another year, not the opposite. Look at what Winnipeg did by getting Collaros last year - a Grey Cup. And the Atlanta Braves this year - under .500 until August 6th (the latest ever a team has been under .500 and made the playoffs) and now in the World Series thanks in large part to the four players they added through trades. Arbuckle hasn't been great this year, but he played very well last year for Calgary.
As to getting Kelly, that's great because we have done so well keeping young good QBs that we signed. If he does work out, we could follow the same logic with him and let him go like Collaros, Harris, Fajardo and now Arbuckle. Of course, as soon as the Argos let them go, they were all terrible and quickly gone from the CFL.
I don't know how MBT is going to play over the rest of the season. But, I don't feel comfortable gambling with unproven Pipken, a QB who hasn't played a down in the CFL, McDonald, and someone, Kelly, as QB who isn't signed and hasn't played a down in the CFL.

[ArgoRavi]

You are right, there is only the one example in Ottawa early on. But there are others involving lack of strategy since there are only 2 QB's. If I recall last weekend in the Ottawa debacle RNation stayed with Duck and there is no question would have gone with the third QB had there been one on the roster since he was unimpressive.That team needs to have an open full game competition with 3 QB's on the roster and all playing for next year.Again, I don't understand this move as it makes the league seem bush and again going back to Reilly, ok who is not having a good year, he had to play almost the entire 4th quarter when the rookie backup was deemed injured. Can you imagine if he got hurt while playing in garbage time?I know I am going back over 30 years but does anyone remember the 1990 East semifinal between the Argos and Ottawa at SkyDome? Ricky Foggie and John Congemi were injured early in that game and third stringer Willie Gillus had to come off the bench to lead the Argos to victory. I shudder to think what would happen if a similar scenario played out this year.

[paulwoods13]

I know I am going back over 30 years but does anyone remember the 1990 East semifinal between the Argos and Ottawa at SkyDome? Ricky Foggie and John Congemi were injured early in that game and third stringer Willie Gillus had to come off the bench to lead the Argos to victory. I shudder to think what would happen if a similar scenario played out this year.

And amazingly, teams managed fine with just 37 on the game-day roster, including three QBs. Add in two kickers (as some teams had) and you are left with just nine subs for the 23 non-QB starters. And yet games were tremendously exciting.

[AngeloV]

And amazingly, teams managed fine with just 37 on the game-day roster, including three QBs. Add in two kickers (as some teams had) and you are left with just nine subs for the 23 non-QB starters. And yet games were tremendously exciting.

Players also played through concussions back then, labelling them as just having their bell rung. If they had protocols back then that they do now, I think the small roster would have been a serious issue.

[OV Argo]

And amazingly, teams managed fine with just 37 on the game-day roster, including three QBs. Add in two kickers (as some teams had) and you are left with just nine subs for the 23 non-QB starters. And yet games were tremendously exciting.

And yet with 42 man rosters now, some teams dress only one back-up O-Lineman, just 2 QBs (and the Argos dress just one dual kicker to do both jobs - I asked if they have an emergency kicker with any kind of kicking skills ?)

CFL GMs or HCs are of course going to ask for larger rosters, but doesn't mean they are very sharp in managing them.

[OV Argo]

I know I am going back over 30 years but does anyone remember the 1990 East semifinal between the Argos and Ottawa at SkyDome? Ricky Foggie and John Congemi were injured early in that game and third stringer Willie Gillus had to come off the bench to lead the Argos to victory. I shudder to think what would happen if a similar scenario played out this year.


It's going to take something like that to teach CFL teams a lesson there Ravi; imagine if both Argo QBs go out with injury early in a play-off game now= guaranteed loss ? what if Bede gets injured on the opening kick-off of a play-off game ?

[paulwoods13]

Players also played through concussions back then, labelling them as just having their bell rung. If they had protocols back then that they do now, I think the small roster would have been a serious issue.

I don't disagree, but IMO that could be handled with a 40-man roster: 24 starters, two backup QBs, two kicking specialists (kicker and LS), two backups each at OL, DL, LB and DB, and four from some combination of RB, FB, Rec and 2nd kicker. The guys who would lose their jobs would mainly be the 7th and 8th D-linemen and 6th and 7th LBs that a lot of teams dress these days. Some offensive and defensive starters would have to play on special teams, as some already do now.

[AngeloV]

And yet with 42 man rosters now, some teams dress only one back-up O-Lineman, just 2 QBs (and the Argos dress just one dual kicker to do both jobs - I asked if they have an emergency kicker with any kind of kicking skills ?)

CFL GMs or HCs are of course going to ask for larger rosters, but doesn't mean they are very sharp in managing them.

Yeah, I agree. It’s made for way too many different offensive and defensive packages which has the clock ticking down allowing for the substitutions and as a result less total plays being run in a game. Another big reason why scoring is down.