Week 14: ARGOS @ Redblacks - November 6, 2021.

[ArgoGabe22]

Unleash the Pipkin, goal line/red zone package.

[Will]

Heading up to Ottawa for this one. Looking forward to it.

[Argo57]

Heading up to Ottawa for this one. Looking forward to it.

Enjoy.
We went to a Ticat-RedBlacks game there in 2019 and were very impressed with the whole setup around the stadium, lots of great restaurants and great atmosphere.

[Mocha]

Heading up to Ottawa for this one. Looking forward to it.

I'll be there (I live in Ottawa), with a couple of youngsters in tow for their first CFL game. Let's hope it's an exciting one.

[Wobbler]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDYPc9FXEAYqEJT?format=jpg&name=medium
Boo: McCoil, Nicastro, and Foster almost certainly won't play on Saturday
Yay: Foote, Judge, Oakman, Ray, Brescacin, and Daniels should all be available

I suppose the receivers will be Daniels-Brescacin-Collins-Worthy-Gittens. Too bad Nield is hurt - it would have been fun to potentially see three NATs starting at receiver.

[Wobbler]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDcETfAWEAY70PD?format=jpg&name=medium
The receiving corps isn't quite what I was expecting. I guess Dres Anderson showed more last week than I noticed.

Good luck to Ottawa if they try to run the ball against that front seven.

[Will]

Dres Anderson got open several times against the Lions, but he was on the wrong end of MBT's overthrows. I'm looking forward to seeing if MBT can connect with him tomorrow. That o-line remains a M*A*S*H unit, which is unfortunate. I don't know how or when Nicastro got hurt, but he was in the game for the 2-pt convert in OT. Ideally, we would want Blake at one of the G spots. I'd love to see some sort of pass rush generated tomorrow, Oakman and Turner should be solid in the interior, but its the ends that need to up their game.

[Wobbler]

Nicastro and McCoil were added to the 6 game list, so in theory they are done for the year. This looks like the "playoff OL" unless Campbell comes back.

[AngeloV]

Nicastro and McCoil were added to the 6 game list, so in theory they are done for the year. This looks like the "playoff OL" unless Campbell comes back.

I don't believe these lists to be accurate. There has been a disconnect with the 6 game reports all year.

[paulwoods13]

Nicastro and McCoil were added to the 6 game list, so in theory they are done for the year. This looks like the "playoff OL" unless Campbell comes back.

I wouldn't count on guys not coming off the six between now and playoffs. At this point it probably makes sense to put any high-ish salaried guy on the six, in case he can't come back and his salary can be removed from the cap. But a few guys can come off the six early, IIRC.

I note (happily) that Brescacin is back -- if I have counted correctly, he missed nine games so we will be able to save six-fourteenths of his salary against the cap.

I note that Zamora is on the one-game. I thought the rule was that anyone scooped off a practice roster had to be on the game roster. Oh well, at least he gets a game cheque out of the deal.

[Shatto]

Would have preferred to see Worthy starting and Anderson as a backup but I expect Worthy will get a fair amount of time at WR. Judge is also listed as backup but If he is healthy, I would expect to see him on the field a lot.

[Wobbler]

I wouldn't count on guys not coming off the six between now and playoffs. At this point it probably makes sense to put any high-ish salaried guy on the six, in case he can't come back and his salary can be removed from the cap. But a few guys can come off the six early, IIRC.
Point taken.

"A Member Club may activate a maximum of two Players from the Six Game Injury List who have been on the Six Game Injury List for seven games or longer without any penalty in relation to the minimum Member Club Player's salary and the salary expenditure cap. Member Clubs may remove an unlimited number of Players off of the Six Game Injury List in addition to the two Players, however, the salaries for such Players shall be applied retroactively to the salary expenditure cap in relation to the amounts paid during that six game period."

Appendix F (and much of the rest of the 2019 collective agreement) reminds me of the terrible documents I've submitted to IACUC. Sorry, whoever had to read those.

[Rich]

Coming out of TC, Brescasin and Ray seemed to be two of the more important pieces of the 2021 Argonauts. Both these guys have big play potential, and who knows, maybe they’re the missing ingredients we need to kickstart this team into a big playoff run. We shall see.

[Joe Barnes]

All hail, Macbeth! Hail to thee, Thane of Glamis! All Hail, Macbeth! Hail to thee, Thane of Cawdor! All hail, Macbeth, that shalt be king hereafter!!

[dmont]

Notwithstanding the result (which was very bad), why bother trying to run out a short missed field goal when you're a defensive player? You're not going to get serious yardage, and you're not used to maintaining possession after serious contact. Give up the rouge, Edwards!

[dmont]

Man, we $uck at running the ball. Most of the blame is on the Oline. I've seen Shane Richards get manhandled a time or two. He's better on the right.

[jerrym]

Argos lucky to be tied so far. Saying the offence has been sluggish would be kind.

[jerrym]

Argos lucky not to get burned on that long pass from Hodges to Harris

[dmont]

Typical argo run defense. Making Flanders look like an all star.

[jerrym]

A DL allowing holes a Mack truck could drive through and terrible tackling make Ottawa look like they have Andrew Harris at his best in their backfield on that TD drive.

[jerrym]

MBT just had one of the worst thrown interceptions of any team in this the CFL season.

[dmont]

Macbeth throwing the ball like $hit.

[Scooter McCray]

Why was Arbuckle traded again?

[dmont]

Somehow, this is all Jeff Richards fault.

[dmont]

There is No. Run. Defense... Literally zero.

[Scooter McCray]

Boris Bede should be our MOP candidate. Without him we lose our close games this year. In 2019 without a quality kicking game we lost alot of games.

[dmont]

Our running game was much better in the second quarter. Good thing too, with Macbeth in a funk.

Run defense sucks. The d line is flushing Hodges from the pocket, but nobody's waiting for him when he starts running. What gives?

I like Dres Anderson.

Run defense F&#&##ing $UCKS!

Lucky to only be down 4. Hodges looking very good and doesn't seem to be making mistakes.

[ArgoGabe22]

Tuned into 1050 on my way home. ESPN Radio was on….

[Joe Barnes]

Typical argo run defense. Making Flanders look like an all star.

I thought it was the second coming of Tony Dorsett!! Hope run D is better in the 2nd half...

[Joe Barnes]

Tuned into 1050 on my way home. ESPN Radio was on….

It's a road game, why would you want to listen to it??? ;)

[jerrym]

Tell me again which team is fighting for its position in the playoffs. The effort so far has been pitiful.

[jerrym]

Argos coverage on Dedmon's return should get them an assist on his record setting TD.

[dmont]

Whelp, this game is over. Way to go Dinwiddie and the special teams

[dmont]

Dinwiddie: "I'm challenging!"

Ref: "On what grounds?"

Dinwiddie: "That play was devastating for our team!"

Ref: "Challenge denied."

Dinwiddie: "Good call!"

[jerrym]

I hope White isn't gone for the season with a knee injury.

[OV Argo]

Argos looked like a poorly coached and uninspired team IMO.

[jerrym]

Bed going 4/4 after going 5/5 last week is the only consistent player on the Argos.

[dmont]

Let's see what Pipkin can do.

[Scooter McCray]

I thought MBT was going to work on his deep balls this week in practice. Clean the shitstorm out of your drawers and go win a football game against a piss poor team. You are the starter. There is nobody looking over your shoulder.

[jerrym]

Another way-off target near interception by MBT.

[jerrym]

Argos undeservedly lucky, considering their play, on that called-back Dedmon long return. The Argos are looking worse and worse as the game goes on.

[Scooter McCray]

It's Timothy Flanders.

[dmont]

The Ballad of Macbeth, by dmont.

"And he's a heartbreaker, he's a love taker
He can break a heart and take all the love he needs
He's a heartbreaker, he's a love taker
Well he can break a heart and take all the love he needs"

Thank you very much.

[Scooter McCray]

Okay let's go.

[dmont]

Get him out! What is the frickin point of keeping him in there?

[Stevoman]

MBT is not playing well since he's been anointed the face of the franchise.

[ArgoFan1]

I am an MBT fan, but they have to put Pipkin in now. We need to win any game against Ottawa. Ticats coming next week and we need to be a game up on them.
I am happy now I didn't make the trip to Ottawa. Was at Montreal last week for that garbage game.

[Scooter McCray]

Defence is starting to play like they know they have to take over.

[Scooter McCray]

Thank goodness Ward has missed 3 FGs

[dmont]

At least lapolice wasted his challenge too.

[dmont]

Ah devaris Daniels sucks too. He's soft.

[dmont]

Pipkin! Pipkin! Pipkin! Where the heck is Pipkin!

[Joe Barnes]

Thank goodness Ward has missed 3 FGs

Bizarrely odd for Ward, but as poorly as the Argos have played, his misses have us still in the game. Cue the comeback - time to win an ugly one.

[argotom]

Pipkin! Pipkin! Pipkin! Where the heck is Pipkin!

I don't get it either.
MBT is a complete stiff, that's 7 pics in the last few games.
There have been other throws not even close and 1 pic called back.
I am starting to wonder about the capabilities or lack thereof from Coach Dinwiddie, a former QB.
After the blunder of nearly losing the game last week with the brutal end of the game clock mismanagement.
You think as a former QB, he should have Pipkin in already and or running a few plays.
Is this team is going nowhere again?

[dmont]

Whelp, this game is over. Way to go Dinwiddie and the special teams

$hut up, @$$hole, what do you know about football???

[argotom]

Yes in spite of MBT, thanks to another poor FG kicking game by an opposing team I can't believe the Argos are still in this game and actually may win it?

[dmont]

It's like that old episode of the Simpsons, where homer is a boxer? And Homer's strategy is to let the other fighter punch him in the head until he's used up all his energy? And then homer pushes the other guy down and wins? That might be what's happened here.

[dmont]

Bede is mortal.

[dmont]

Hey Dinwiddie, 1:20 left. Victory formation!!!!

What, too soon? ;)

[Joe Barnes]

Bizarrely odd for Ward, but as poorly as the Argos have played, his misses have us still in the game. Cue the comeback - time to win an ugly one.

Yes!! For once, my optimism was well placed...never in doubt, eh?? Next week is a huge one! Hope we can 'blow the stink off' of this one and be ready to go!

[argotom]

For the second week in a row an uninspiring victory.
Mostly due to the quality of the opposing teams which were brutal.
Our offense didn't show up, the punting was questionable and the special teams were offensive.
I can't see the Cats playing this bad, just like Sanchez now who is saying on the telecast how Hamilton will smoke the Argos if they play this way again.

[ArgoFan1]

Another lucky win by the Argos !!! Somehow they keep getting these gifts.
Next week against Hamilton will be the real test.

[OV Argo]

That's 2 games in a row where bad games from the other team's place kicker gift the Argos a win. Lucky is good, but hardly looking like a 1st place team.

[Scooter McCray]

I believe a better Argo team will show up vs. HAMILTON. Macbeth will have his coming out party. A win is a win, and they are their record.

[jerrym]

Please, nobody try to peddle this as a great comeback by MBT.

[Antwon]

I think if they play like they did tonight, Hamilton will beat us next week.
Ouellette, way to step in! He's a gamer!

[dmont]

My goodness, how to describe that game...

I'm sure part of the conversation this week was to not put anything good on film for Hamilton to study. Through 3 quarters, mission accomplished. The team actually started looking good in the 4th. I hope that was because the boring stuff started working, rather than us having to dig into the bag of tricks.

The good:

AJ Oullete. There's always been something I liked about this guy. I thought he was incredible. More of a power back than our other two, which I think has been sorely missed at times. Even with that, he's fast and he can hurdle guys. I don't anticipate much of a drop off if he starts next game.

Cordarro Law. An absolute beast in the 4th quarter. I heard the commentators say that Ottawas starting RT got injured, so I don't know how much of this was eating up an inexperienced olineman,but whatever. I'll take it.

Dres Anderson. Was getting good position in the 1st half and, except for one drop that turned into an INT, was sound on assignment.

Fourth quarter davaris Daniels: He must have heard me call him soft in the third. Much toughened up in the fourth quarter. Big catches under coverage an a big 2 point conversion.

Boris Bede: How does this guy not get a look from down south in the off season? He's big-time.

The bad:

Macbeth through 3 quarters. Throws were off, not just way long but way short a lot of the time. Had three INTs and, but for the grace of God, almost had two more. Looked good in the fourth, but I swear, this guys not happy unless the team is 10 points down with time running out.

Dinwiddie and coaching staff. Especially after last week, can't one of you idiots keep it straight what you're allowed to challenge? Also, offense looked very bad for most of the game.

First half Shane Richards. I thought he was getting manhandled by the defenders. Is it a left/right thing? They had him at left guard even though he mostly plays on the right.

Argos win like no one but the 2021 Argos can. Hamilton should be completely befuddled when they look at the film and try to game plan for next week.

[argotom]

Please, nobody try to peddle this as a great comeback by MBT.
Yes the wrong QB was traded.

[jerrym]

Two weeks in Bede is perfect going 9/9 overall while the opposition misses three FGs in each game, including by the world record holder for consecutive FGs. You can't keep living that way and expect to keep winning. And that is not a criticism of Bede.

[AngeloV]

That's 2 games in a row where bad games from the other team's place kicker gift the Argos a win. Lucky is good, but hardly looking like a 1st place team.

But I thought Ward was the best kicker in all of football.

[ArgoRavi]

This team was 8-28 the past two seasons and are now 8-4 and guaranteed their first winning season since 2015 and people are still complaining?

What I saw today was a team that overcame great adversity to win a key game on the road. They turned over the ball four times, gave up a touchdown on a kickoff return and still won the damn game. What does everyone want?

And you win games if your FG kicker badly outplays the opposition's FG kicker as has happened the past two weeks.

Finally, all McLeod Bethel-Thompson has been doing this year is win football games. Nobody has a clue how either of the past two games would have gone with Arbuckle at QB but we do know that the Argos won both with MBT at QB. That's good enough for me.

[AngeloV]

100% Ravi.

The hatred for MBT is ridiculous. Has nobody watched the CFL this season? Defenses are dominating this season. Only Collaros is having real success and IIRC most posters here questioned why the Argos traded to get him in 2019, claiming he should retire.

I don’t understand why there is so much anger.

[Blue90]

MBT is terrible. He cannot complete 10 yard passes. Bad reads, throw into double coverage, interceptions. He is a turnover machine. Same thing last week. He is a journeyman, bouncing from team to team.

[Stevoman]

A win is a win even if ugly.

I really like MBT but 3 INT's (almost 4) to one TD and several under throws. He has not been good the last 2 weeks.

Ouellette/Bede/Defence get the win.

[dmont]

What I saw today was a team that overcame great adversity to win a key game on the road. They turned over the ball four times, gave up a touchdown on a kickoff return and still won the damn game. What does everyone want?

Since you ask, I want them to not turn the ball over 4 times or give up a touchdown on a kickoff return.

Nobody who watched that game could possibly think that everything's fine with this team.

Winning is not ALL that Macbeth has been doing. He's been overthrowing deep open receivers consistently all season. Today, he started under throwing receivers as well. For most of the season, he's minimized the turnovers. For the last few games he's been much worse. Anyone watching this game knows that three INTs was actually GENEROUS since he was a hair away from having two more, refs be thanked.

I like Macbeth, but he's looked like crap the last two games. If not for ungodly bad opposition kicking for the last two games, we'd be on a three game losing streak and in danger of being crossovered. Yes, I made it a verb!

[OV Argo]

But I thought Ward was the best kicker in all of football.


Just FYI - Ward is the all-time CFL FG accuracy leader and holds the all-time PRO football consecutive FG mark - maybe that means nothing to use since he doesn't wear an Argo uniform? But yeah - he cost Ottawa the game today basically.

The past 2 wins have basically zero to do with MBT who continues to show he is mediocre way too often; maybe if the wins had come in key games against the Bombers or Ticat D where he was hitting all his receivers in stride and not relying on Bede to kick FGs, then we might have something = hardly the story. And this hardly is "hatred" - sorry bout that homers; easy to call it as you see it when the QB misses open receivers or throws dumb picks.

Hopefully Diwiddie and the offensive brain-trust see what a good inside power runner Ouellette is - him combined with a quick back like Foster, and both used lots, could really help MBT.

[ArgoGabe22]

A win is a win even if ugly.

I really like MBT but 3 INT's (almost 4) to one TD and several under throws. He has not been good the last 2 weeks.

Ouellette/Bede/Defence get the win.

This. I know MBT isn’t popular but can’t deny he easily could have and probably should have thrown the game away.

[OV Argo]

Mike Reilly went 33 for 43 (70% plus) for 330 yards against the Ticats D yesterday; hopefully MBT puts up as good or better #s next up against the Ticats ?

[Argo57]

Please, nobody try to peddle this as a great comeback by MBT.

What a great comeback win by MBT!

[AngeloV]

Mike Reilly went 33 for 43 (70% plus) for 330 yards against the Ticats D yesterday; hopefully MBT puts up as good or better #s next up against the Ticats ?

And MBT put up 388 and a victory last time he played Hamilton. Agains, stats are stats. Winning is more important. Reilly also did a horrible job of managing the last 32 seconds last night and put his team in a situation where they needed a Hail Mary. Why he threw to the side of the field where he o Ly bad 1 receiver is a head scratcher.

[AngeloV]

MBT just had one of the worst thrown interceptions of any team in this the CFL season.

Really Jerry? Are you forgetting the one Arbuckle threw in the 4th quarter at home against Hamilton? That game was over, that horrible throw to no particular receiver allowed Hamilton to nearly tie a game they had no business being in.

[gilthethrill]

TSN panel member Milt Stegal commented at half time that Ottawa scoring 6 points on 3 1st half turnovers wasn’t going to cut it and thats why Ottawa is 2-10. He was exactly right. In 2019 MBT led the league in TD passes and I believe 300 yard passing games. It was said that “ Stats are for losers” and that wins are what matters. Apparently not.

Quack Quack!!!

[gilthethrill]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank fellow Argo fans and generally “Neat Guys” Angelo V, argolio, ArgoCraig57 and son Eric for making the trip to Stratford yesterday to watch the game in my Argo Room. The cabbage rolls and coffee were excellent as always.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.

[Argo57]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank fellow Argo fans and generally “Neat Guys” Angelo V, argolio, ArgoCraig57 and son Eric for making the trip to Stratford yesterday to watch the game in my Argo Room. The cabbage rolls and coffee were excellent as always.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.

Thanks Dean.
Always good to see you guys, venting and cheering with friends always good for our sanity!

[Scooter McCray]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank fellow Argo fans and generally “Neat Guys” Angelo V, argolio, ArgoCraig57 and son Eric for making the trip to Stratford yesterday to watch the game in my Argo Room. The cabbage rolls and coffee were excellent as always.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.Just like Mrs. Vilveyachki used to make.

[Argo57]

Glad to see the Argos win yesterday, was it ugly…..absolutely.
All teams (not named Winnipeg) have had their struggles this season, Argos have a lot of work to do especially considering the fact Hamilton seems to be getting their act together.
Much better effort needed this week, absolutely want to avoid a loss against Hamilton.

[Argo57]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank fellow Argo fans and generally “Neat Guys” Angelo V, argolio, ArgoCraig57 and son Eric for making the trip to Stratford yesterday to watch the game in my Argo Room. The cabbage rolls and coffee were excellent as always.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.

The clarinets we’re flying at the TV for the first 3 quarters of that game.

[paulwoods13]

Clearly we need to play way better than we did yesterday (at least on offence) to be a force in the post-season. A good team will take far greater advantage of four turnovers than Ottawa did. MBT definitely knows he simply must play a whole lot better. I continue to believe he not only can, but will.

Worth noting, the defence surrendered just 13 points and just one touchdown despite Ottawa being handed the ball time after time, some of those in scoring range and one of them in the red zone. Tackling was bad (again) in the first half, but the defence we saw in the second half, and especially the fourth quarter, was what you need to win in the playoffs. Law looked outstanding. Shane Ray made some plays and appeared to be getting a lot of double teams. Collins broke up a few passes and the secondary prevented guys from getting open when Hodges was scrambling away from pressure in the second half. That type of shutdown effort will likely be needed on Friday, when we can clinch first place with a win.

Very sad to lose White (presumably out for the season) but Ouellette seems like a more than capable replacement. Hopefully Foster gets healthy enough to give us a 1-2 punch at RB. We also desperately need Rogers back. Dres Anderson is a fine-looking prospect with a knack for getting open, but I want the veteran with a gigantic wingspan in there. Hopefully Brescacin is healthy enough to play most of the snaps going forward.

[paulwoods13]

First half Shane Richards. I thought he was getting manhandled by the defenders. Is it a left/right thing? They had him at left guard even though he mostly plays on the right.


Richards' best work this year, IMO, was when he was at LG after Blake got hurt early in the season. I thought he and Allen looked excellent on that side for a few games. IMO he seemed to struggle when he played the right side, especially in Tate's first game. I don't think we know yet what his best position will be. Clearly he has a bright future. Unfortunately our o-line is missing two of the five starters. If Nicastro and/or Campbell don't get healthy soon, we are going to have to hope that the current unit can at least hold its own if not dominate. To their credit, after a rough first half they started giving MBT more time to throw in the second, and opened some nice holes for Ouellette.

[AngeloV]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank fellow Argo fans and generally “Neat Guys” Angelo V, argolio, ArgoCraig57 and son Eric for making the trip to Stratford yesterday to watch the game in my Argo Room. The cabbage rolls and coffee were excellent as always.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.

We had a blast Dean. Need to make this an annual event.

[AngeloV]

Just FYI - Ward is the all-time CFL FG accuracy leader and holds the all-time PRO football consecutive FG mark - maybe that means nothing to use since he doesn't wear an Argo uniform? But yeah - he cost Ottawa the game today basically.

The past 2 wins have basically zero to do with MBT who continues to show he is mediocre way too often; maybe if the wins had come in key games against the Bombers or Ticat D where he was hitting all his receivers in stride and not relying on Bede to kick FGs, then we might have something = hardly the story. And this hardly is "hatred" - sorry bout that homers; easy to call it as you see it when the QB misses open receivers or throws dumb picks.

Hopefully Diwiddie and the offensive brain-trust see what a good inside power runner Ouellette is - him combined with a quick back like Foster, and both used lots, could really help MBT.

I don’t want to take anything from Ward’s magnificent rookie season. But I said this at the time, and I will say it again. They protected him and his streak. He rarely tried FG’s over 45 yards that season. He has been asked to make longer kicks since and has been so so at it. As I said then Medlock Was the best kicker in the league and it wasn’t close. To be considered the best, you need to be able to make 50+ on a consistent basis. The game has changed. Sean White is lights out inside 45, but he sucks on long kicks. Same for Ward.

[paulwoods13]

To be considered the best, you need to be able to make 50+ on a consistent basis.

Fortunately we have a guy who can do that. And he was obtained in an extremely one-sided trade, to boot.

[RB957]

MBT is not playing well since he's been anointed the face of the franchise.

More like "pie in the face".

[OV Argo]

FG kicking is an up and down profession; if you have followed league history you understand that some all-time great/long career FG kickers (Osbaldiston, Ridgway, McCloughlin to name a few) have all had weak seasons or poor games where a makeable FG miss or 2 cost their team the game.

Very rare to have a FG kicker who is consistent game in or season after season out - basically almost never done; CAREER FG accuracy is IMO the best standard to judge place kickers by. FG kickers who can be counted on to hit 53 + yard FGs (often) are rare - Bede has that kind of big leg and his accuracy has been outstanding lately - he needs to carry that thru the season and on into the play-offs. His kick-off leg strength has been proven league best for some time now.

And BTW - Lewis Ward's career long FG is 56 yards; Bede's is this year's 54 yarder; just for some who say stats say something; when Bede starts hitting a number (not just one) of 55 plus yard FGs in a season, and continues his upward accuracy trend, he may move into all-time best CFL FG kicker consideration, but he needs several more seasons of proof IMO.

[RB957]

100% Ravi.

The hatred for MBT is ridiculous. Has nobody watched the CFL this season? Defenses are dominating this season. Only Collaros is having real success and IIRC most posters here questioned why the Argos traded to get him in 2019, claiming he should retire.

I don’t understand why there is so much anger.

Angelo, I am not angry, I am frustrated... this is a guy who has been a professional for what, almost 10 years? He himself said a QB who misses 3 wide open receivers in one game should not be playing.... then goes.out and does it again. I love his passion and toughness and all, but be is frustrating as heck.

[AngeloV]

Fortunately we have a guy who can do that. And he was obtained in an extremely one-sided trade, to boot.

I loved the trade the minute it was announced. Crapinga is another kicker that can’t make long ones. Nothing worse than being down 2 or a points and getting to the 45 yard line with little chance to make the tying or go ahead FG. To me, if you are consistently missing kicks of 50 yards, you are not a pro level kicker. NFL kickers today routinely make 55 yard kicks. No reason that CFL kickers are with the added benefit of a 1 inch tee shouldn’t.

[OV Argo]

I loved the trade the minute it was announced. Crapinga is another kicker that can’t make long ones. Nothing worse than being down 2 or a points and getting to the 45 yard line with little chance to make the tying or go ahead FG. To me, if you are consistently missing kicks of 50 yards, you are not a pro level kicker. NFL kickers today routinely make 55 yard kicks. No reason that CFL kickers are with the added benefit of a 1 inch tee shouldn’t.


Not sure how much NFL you watch but there has been some brutally bad FG kicking on display there this season; not just long 50 some yarders, buy guys blowing easily makeable FGs. That's what can happen with FG kicking and in the NFL it sometimes gets you cut fast (unless you are a long-time vet like Vinateri who turned $hitty but still got to keep his job); AGAIN - the number of FG kickers down there who have outstanding CAREER accuracy and can hit 53+ yarders regularly is a limited club; 50 plus yarders are way more common in pro ball now.

[ArgoZ]

Angelo, I am not angry, I am frustrated... this is a guy who has been a professional for what, almost 10 years? He himself said a QB who misses 3 wide open receivers in one game should not be playing.... then goes.out and does it again. I love his passion and toughness and all, but be is frustrating as heck.

It’s not hate when the QB plays terrible and we are frustrated. MBT’s last two games have been that, TERRIBLE! I feel like I need to remark how much I like him or his redeeming qualities before I dare criticize an obviously awful performance. Since his arrival, he has had accuracy issues. Particularly with deep balls in a way you don’t see from a professional quarterback, yet the excuses are made week after week here on this forum. I know he can play better and so does he, but call a spade a spade.

[AngeloV]

Angelo, I am not angry, I am frustrated... this is a guy who has been a professional for what, almost 10 years? He himself said a QB who misses 3 wide open receivers in one game should not be playing.... then goes.out and does it again. I love his passion and toughness and all, but be is frustrating as heck.


It’s not hate when the QB plays terrible and we are frustrated. MBT’s last two games have been that, TERRIBLE! I feel like I need to remark how much I like him or his redeeming qualities before I dare criticize an obviously awful performance. Since his arrival, he has had accuracy issues. Particularly with deep balls in a way you don’t see from a professional quarterback, yet the excuses are made week after week here on this forum. I know he can play better and so does he, but call a spade a spade.


I'll ask again. Other than Collaros (who has by far the most dominating o-line in the league), what QB is having a better season than MBT in the league? Offences in general have been bad this year (or maybe defences have been great), but BLM, Harris, Reilly, Fajardo have all struggled. VA had some big plays for the Als, but I wouldn't say he was consistently good before his injury. Masoli is on a bit of a roll now, but he struggled at times this year, and I think Dane Evans failed to produce when he was starting too. I think way too much focus goes on the QB when offences struggle. Was MBT good yesterday? Overall no. I wouldn't even say that. But he buckled down at the end and got the points when they needed them.

[ArgoZ]

I'll ask again. Other than Collaros (who has by far the most dominating o-line in the league), what QB is having a better season than MBT in the league? Offences in general have been bad this year (or maybe defences have been great), but BLM, Harris, Reilly, Fajardo have all struggled. VA had some big plays for the Als, but I wouldn't say he was consistently good before his injury. Masoli is on a bit of a roll now, but he struggled at times this year, and I think Dane Evans failed to produce when he was starting too. I think way too much focus goes on the QB when offences struggle. Was MBT good yesterday? Overall no. I wouldn't even say that. But he buckled down at the end and got the points when they needed them.

Admittedly, I haven’t watched enough of the other teams to properly comment. When BLM can’t throw a TD all game though, your point is taken with merit. The problem with MBT is he’s right there giving you everything you can ask but often misses a wide open receiver. These are huge, game changing mistakes. Sure other QB’s overthrow, but not at this rate or the wide openness of our receivers. Great QB’s make those throws. MBT might be the best QB in the league if he could, but alas these are the reasons he isn’t. As a Bills fan, I’m reminded of the Flutie/Johnson drama. Once Doug got in, all of a sudden the o-line gelled and the Bills could move the ball. Flutie didn’t have the arm strength like Johnson, but he threw in tight windows with that velocity or pop. He could throw to Moulds back shoulder where no one could touch it. MBT like Johnson, can’t make those throws with the accuracy needed or can’t decide quick enough and then there’s nothing there. The Argos can’t keep putting the whole game on his shoulders because he isn’t good enough.

[dmont]

I'll ask again. Other than Collaros (who has by far the most dominating o-line in the league), what QB is having a better season than MBT in the league?

... Generally speaking... whichever QB happens to be the opposing QB in a game against the argonauts...

... I kid, I kid, I like Macbeth and want him to succeed. He's shown flashes of brilliance but, especially once you've put all your faith in him, he has bad nights. That's why he's a...

"... Heartbreaker, you got the best of me
But I just keep on coming back incessantly
Oh why, did you have to run your game on me?
I should have known. right. from. the. start.
You'd. go and break my heart."

[RB957]

I'll ask again. Other than Collaros (who has by far the most dominating o-line in the league), what QB is having a better season than MBT in the league? Offences in general have been bad this year (or maybe defences have been great), but BLM, Harris, Reilly, Fajardo have all struggled. VA had some big plays for the Als, but I wouldn't say he was consistently good before his injury. Masoli is on a bit of a roll now, but he struggled at times this year, and I think Dane Evans failed to produce when he was starting too. I think way too much focus goes on the QB when offences struggle. Was MBT good yesterday? Overall no. I wouldn't even say that. But he buckled down at the end and got the points when they needed them.

Angelo, I am not sure that is the right question to be honest, because I don't know how you would make those comparisons given how many variables are involved. As far as Collaros goes, yes he has a great line, but their protection breaks down also, and when it does Collaros is able to improvise and make plays, especially on the run. But my bigger point is, forget about comparing MBT to other QB's because we can argue about that all day. My concern is grounded in looking at him and and analyzing his progress. In that respect, I am worried because I honestly don't believe he is getting better. I am sorry, but playing QB at the professional level is all about precision, and he is just not precise... enough. He is close, but unfortunately that only counts when you're tossing hand grenades. And you can fault our O-line for weak pass protection but some of his worst misses were on the throws where he actually had time, because they were deep routes that took time to develop. And it might just be me, but he seems to lack awareness of when his pocket is collapsing and moving a bit would give him more time. Watch the great QB's like Brady, or Bo Levi Mitchell and they have this sense and can move out of danger. I know MBT has put up good numbers, but he doesn't dominate other teams like a great QB can. His best game this season was against the Als here at BMO, and the comments (almost without any argument) were he that he was solid and managed the game well. That is not the assessment I want to be made about "the face of the franchise". And I don't honestly see much progress or improvement no matter how much more he plays.

So the thing is, from my perspective, this is as good as it is going to get with him. Is that good enough for you? Do you feel like our future is more secure if the Argos re-sign him and he is the presumptive #1? It's not for me. To finish off, I just want to say that I have great respect for your opinions and enjoy reading your posts because you are very knowledgeable about the game, and I guess this is one where we are just going to agree to disagree. There are so many things to love about this guy, and I want nothing but the best, but I just don't think he has it.

[Will]

You couldn't have asked for better weather on a November 6 in Ottawa to watch football!

MBT has thrown 8 interceptions in 3 games, that's not good either way you cut it.

The bad news is that John White got hurt almost as soon as Foster got hurt. Fortunately, Ouelette filled in quite well. The offensive line has been good in run blocking the past 2 weeks, but continues to struggle on pass protection.

[Will]

It was a bit concerning that Dinwiddie (again) did something silly. I was right behind the Argos bench and did feel there was something egregious on the Deadmon KR TD that should've been called, but it wasn't and Dinwiddie challenged something that couldn't be challenged and was charged a timeout.

Bede was a perfect 5/5, but as was discussed earlier, strange for Ward to miss three FGs.

[Shatto]

Dinwiddie just keeps finding ways to demonstrate his inexperience as a head coach--game after game. In this last game a)he choose Edwards to return a punt not Worthy, b) he chooses to have the punt run out of the end zone rather giving up a single 3) he challenges an unchallengeable call

Hopefully he will learn from these errors and not make others that will cost the team a game.

[AngeloV]

Dinwiddie just keeps finding ways to demonstrate his inexperience as a head coach--game after game. In this last game a)he choose Edwards to return a punt not Worthy, b) he chooses to have the punt run out of the end zone rather giving up a single 3) he challenges an unchallengeable call

Hopefully he will learn from these errors and not make others that will cost the team a game.

Not too worried about Dinwiddie. As you said, rookie mistakes. Wasn’t all that long ago that Mike O’Shea struggled with coaching decisions and was wanted out by Bombers fans. Now he is arguably the best coach in the league. Sometimes you need to be patient with young coaches.

Unrelated: Why can't I edit my postes? When I try to edit I just get a blank message body, so I delete and re-post when my fat fingers on phone do me wrong.

[AngeloV]

Angelo, I am not sure that is the right question to be honest, because I don't know how you would make those comparisons given how many variables are involved. As far as Collaros goes, yes he has a great line, but their protection breaks down also, and when it does Collaros is able to improvise and make plays, especially on the run. But my bigger point is, forget about comparing MBT to other QB's because we can argue about that all day. My concern is grounded in looking at him and and analyzing his progress. In that respect, I am worried because I honestly don't believe he is getting better. I am sorry, but playing QB at the professional level is all about precision, and he is just not precise... enough. He is close, but unfortunately that only counts when you're tossing hand grenades. And you can fault our O-line for weak pass protection but some of his worst misses were on the throws where he actually had time, because they were deep routes that took time to develop. And it might just be me, but he seems to lack awareness of when his pocket is collapsing and moving a bit would give him more time. Watch the great QB's like Brady, or Bo Levi Mitchell and they have this sense and can move out of danger. I know MBT has put up good numbers, but he doesn't dominate other teams like a great QB can. His best game this season was against the Als here at BMO, and the comments (almost without any argument) were he that he was solid and managed the game well. That is not the assessment I want to be made about "the face of the franchise". And I don't honestly see much progress or improvement no matter how much more he plays.

So the thing is, from my perspective, this is as good as it is going to get with him. Is that good enough for you? Do you feel like our future is more secure if the Argos re-sign him and he is the presumptive #1? It's not for me. To finish off, I just want to say that I have great respect for your opinions and enjoy reading your posts because you are very knowledgeable about the game, and I guess this is one where we are just going to agree to disagree. There are so many things to love about this guy, and I want nothing but the best, but I just don't think he has it.

My main point was that all QB's except for Collaros have struggled this year. It's been a bad year all around for offences. It's not just the Argos.

[ArgoGabe22]

Unrelated: Why can't I edit my postes? When I try to edit I just get a blank message body, so I delete and re-post when my fat fingers on phone do me wrong.

This has been a mystery. Happens to me while on my phone.

[Will]

It's only happening on your phone correct?

[paulwoods13]

My main point was that all QB's except for Collaros have struggled this year. It's been a bad year all around for offences. It's not just the Argos.

This got me thinking. It's not just that offences are struggling around the entire league -- it's also that, apart from Collaros, every regular starting QB has come under criticism from segments of his own team's fanbase.

Adams was blasted by Mtl fans early in the season for throwing extremely costly picks, sometimes picks that decided the game in the opponent's favour. Masoli was practically run out of town on a rail after week 2, and even now, after four consecutive good games, there are Ticats fans grousing about him online. Fajardo is being described by some fans on Riderfans as a one-year wonder. Even the two perennial MOP candidates have come in for criticism. Some Stamps fans have been loudly calling for Bo to be replaced by Maier, and some Lions fans are furious that Reilly keeps pushing the ball downfield against defences designed to stop downfield throws. (Not to mention criticism over his Hail Mary throw this weekend to someone other than Burnham or Whitehead, and into an area with four or five defenders.) No need to even mention the vitriol that Ott's and Edm's starting QBs got from those teams' fans earlier this year.

Fans expect perfection from their QBs, it seems. But even the greatest QBs of the past decade, Bo and Reilly, sometimes miss open receivers, throw picks, fail to lead fourth-quarter comebacks, make the wrong reads, etc. Even Ricky Ray wasn't perfect (and of course there were fans here calling for his head -- a lot -- between 2012 and 2017).

Clearly MBT is also not perfect. Lately he has made far too many bad throws. He simply must play better for us to have a chance at winning the Grey Cup. But he has also done a hell of a lot of good things this year, and is (as far as I can tell) the only QB in the league to lead his team to victory four times after trailing in the fourth quarter. I can only speak for myself, and I know some others won't agree with this, but I am extremely confident having him as our QB as we head towards, and into, the postseason.

[AngeloV]

It's only happening on your phone correct?

Yes, but then I go on to my PC and still can't edit the post.

[AngeloV]

Clearly MBT is also not perfect. Lately he has made far too many bad throws. He simply must play better for us to have a chance at winning the Grey Cup. But he has also done a hell of a lot of good things this year, and is (as far as I can tell) the only QB in the league to lead his team to victory four times after trailing in the fourth quarter. I can only speak for myself, and I know some others won't agree with this, but I am extremely confident having him as our QB as we head towards, and into, the postseason.

I feel the same way. And to be clear, I would love to have a better and younger QB here. I really wanted Arbuckle to that the ball and make it impossible to take him out of the role. MBT clearly wasn't brought back to be the starter, but the coaching staff and management saw something in him that told him he was the best choice to lead them the rest of THIS season. All the talk about him playing on so many teams also drives me nuts. He's only played on ONE team in this league. What's happened in other leagues is irrelevant. He was trying to get back into the NFL, not sure how that can be held against him. And now the Argos have a chance to finish 9-5 or 10-4. Who really would have expected that this season?

[AngeloV]

As a Bills fan, I’m reminded of the Flutie/Johnson drama. Once Doug got in, all of a sudden the o-line gelled and the Bills could move the ball. Flutie didn’t have the arm strength like Johnson, but he threw in tight windows with that velocity or pop. He could throw to Moulds back shoulder where no one could touch it. MBT like Johnson, can’t make those throws with the accuracy needed or can’t decide quick enough and then there’s nothing there. The Argos can’t keep putting the whole game on his shoulders because he isn’t good enough.

I hope you feel the same way about Josh Allen today as you do about MBT.

I kid, I too am a Bills fan, and really wish I can get back that 3 hours of my life from yesterday.

[RB957]

This got me thinking. It's not just that offences are struggling around the entire league -- it's also that, apart from Collaros, every regular starting QB has come under criticism from segments of his own team's fanbase.

Adams was blasted by Mtl fans early in the season for throwing extremely costly picks, sometimes picks that decided the game in the opponent's favour. Masoli was practically run out of town on a rail after week 2, and even now, after four consecutive good games, there are Ticats fans grousing about him online. Fajardo is being described by some fans on Riderfans as a one-year wonder. Even the two perennial MOP candidates have come in for criticism. Some Stamps fans have been loudly calling for Bo to be replaced by Maier, and some Lions fans are furious that Reilly keeps pushing the ball downfield against defences designed to stop downfield throws. (Not to mention criticism over his Hail Mary throw this weekend to someone other than Burnham or Whitehead, and into an area with four or five defenders.) No need to even mention the vitriol that Ott's and Edm's starting QBs got from those teams' fans earlier this year.

Fans expect perfection from their QBs, it seems. But even the greatest QBs of the past decade, Bo and Reilly, sometimes miss open receivers, throw picks, fail to lead fourth-quarter comebacks, make the wrong reads, etc. Even Ricky Ray wasn't perfect (and of course there were fans here calling for his head -- a lot -- between 2012 and 2017).

Clearly MBT is also not perfect. Lately he has made far too many bad throws. He simply must play better for us to have a chance at winning the Grey Cup. But he has also done a hell of a lot of good things this year, and is (as far as I can tell) the only QB in the league to lead his team to victory four times after trailing in the fourth quarter. I can only speak for myself, and I know some others won't agree with this, but I am extremely confident having him as our QB as we head towards, and into, the postseason.

Very fair. Points taken. I wish I shared your confidence in MBT. But regardless, the Argos made their choice and as a die-hard fan I will support him and the team to the end.

[paulwoods13]

Very fair. Points taken. I wish I shared your confidence in MBT. But regardless, the Argos made their choice and as a die-hard fan I will support him and the team to the end.

That's a great attitude, and I imagine most Argo fans feel the same way. Winning the Grey Cup this year may be unlikely, but it is not out outside the realm of possibility. And I have a very good feeling about this club.

[ArgoRavi]

Paul has nailed it, in my opinion.

If discussion boards like this one existed back in the early 1980s, I have no doubt that Condredge Holloway and Joe Barnes would have had their fair share of detractors too. Complaining about your team's starting QB is as old as the game itself.

[AngeloV]

Very fair. Points taken. I wish I shared your confidence in MBT. But regardless, the Argos made their choice and as a die-hard fan I will support him and the team to the end.

Like Paul said, that is a great attitude. I like MBT, but I’m not delusional to the point I think he doesn’t make mistakes. I just find that when I read comments which are way worse towards him than his play deserves, I get defensive. I get into shouting matches at the games with people who blame him for everything.

[Will]

Paul has nailed it, in my opinion.

If discussion boards like this one existed back in the early 1980s, I have no doubt that Condredge Holloway and Joe Barnes would have had their fair share of detractors too. Complaining about your team's starting QB is as old as the game itself.

1981: Holloway would''ve been skewered!
1981-1982 offseason: board splits into Barnes vs Holloway camp, also complaints about whoever the hell Bob O'Billovich is
July 1982: WTF is this new offense that this Mouse guy has put into place, and Holloway is terrible

[SkalbaniasGhost]

1981: Holloway would''ve been skewered!
1981-1982 offseason: board splits into Barnes vs Holloway camp, also complaints about whoever the hell Bob O'Billovich is
July 1982: WTF is this new offense that this Mouse guy has put into place, and Holloway is terrible

You forgot this part.
June 1982:This Dan Feraday guy needs to gets a chance. We need a Canadian QB in this league.

[Joe Barnes]

You forgot this part.
June 1982:This Dan Feraday guy needs to gets a chance. We need a Canadian QB in this league.

And don't forget 1981: Dan Manucci...the Duck Hodges of his day!

[ArgoRavi]

And don't forget 1981: Dan Manucci...the Duck Hodges of his day!

Hahaha! This one wins the day. Manucci and Hodges put up remarkably similar completion percentages!

[AngeloV]

And don't forget 1981: Dan Manucci...the Duck Hodges of his day!

I would say Manucci was worse than Hodges. Jim Ballard or Timm Rosenbauch anyone?

[ArgoZ]

I hope you feel the same way about Josh Allen today as you do about MBT.

I kid, I too am a Bills fan, and really wish I can get back that 3 hours of my life from yesterday.

I supported Allen a few years ago when a lot of people were way too critical. I was personally proud when I said (even on this very forum) he only needed more experience and the Bills would likely take the division the next year (last season) It was also what I was hoping for Arbuckle. Live through some growing pains this year and watch him become a star next.

This weeks Bills upset was kind of like the Argos actually. Allen getting rushed way too often with no running game to help out and feeling like he has to do it all himself. I feel like that’s MBT these last two weeks, so maybe I should give him some more slack. Thanks for the illustration to get me thinking.

[AngeloV]

I supported Allen a few years ago when a lot of people were way too critical. I was personally proud when I said (even on this very forum) he only needed more experience and the Bills would likely take the division the next year (last season) It was also what I was hoping for Arbuckle. Live through some growing pains this year and watch him become a star next.

This weeks Bills upset was kind of like the Argos actually. Allen getting rushed way too often with no running game to help out and feeling like he has to do it all himself. I feel like that’s MBT these last two weeks, so maybe I should give him some more slack. Thanks for the illustration to get me thinking.

I'm a big Allen fan too. Yesterday wasn't his best day, but similar to what the Argos have gone through recently (since Campbell went down), his o-line was dominated. As for Arbuckle, it was all set up for him to be the starter. He came in knowing the system, having played with 3 of the receivers in the past, and yet MBT still played better than him. Maybe we as well as the Argos had higher expectations for him that we should have. I really hope Pipken progresses, because as much as I defend MBT, I don't see long term starter for him. But, he is the best we have right now, so I wish people would just give him a break.

[argolio]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank fellow Argo fans and generally “Neat Guys” Angelo V, argolio, ArgoCraig57 and son Eric for making the trip to Stratford yesterday to watch the game in my Argo Room. The cabbage rolls and coffee were excellent as always.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.Thank you for your generous hospitality, friendly cats, and a very comfy chair. Next time, we need more Doritos!