TSN's top 50 CFL players

[KCargosfan]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=70711

Interesting stuff. Buck Pierce a little high imo, as is Odell Willis and our own Chad Owens.

[KCargosfan]

Coming to this list next year: Ahmad Carroll.

[paulwoods13]

Little surprised to see Parker and Shell in the top 50. Yes, I know the GC champs wanted them, but are they really both among the top 10 DBs in the league? McCollough had a much better season last year than either of those guys, IMO.

[ArgoRavi]

Little surprised to see Parker and Shell in the top 50. Yes, I know the GC champs wanted them, but are they really both among the top 10 DBs in the league? McCollough had a much better season last year than either of those guys, IMO.

I tend to agree with you on that, Paul. What raised my ire was seeing Avon Cobourne, Chis Garrett and Buck Pierce on that list. Cobourne would be out of the league if not for Martell Mallett's injury and his play did drop off a bit last year. Garrett is on the top 50 list based on a handful of games??? Really??? I think that everyone knows my feelings about Pierce who I don't even think is the best QB on his team. Reputation is big with the media though and I must admit that some of OV's words on here about the media were going through my head as I watched this show.

[OV Argo]

Top player lists or all-star teams are always based a lot on past accomplishments rather than mostly right now or last season - that's the way she goes; and when the media have a lot of say - yeah Ravi - i have little respect for most of the "football reporters" who cover the CFL - with a very few exceptions.

[ArgoGabe22]

Little surprised to see Parker and Shell in the top 50. Yes, I know the GC champs wanted them, but are they really both among the top 10 DBs in the league? McCollough had a much better season last year than either of those guys, IMO.

I disagree with Parker, he deserves it but I too am surprised with Shell but he was as All Star numerous times (I think twice).

[1argoholic]

It was based on last years play. The whole thing had some real questionable results.

[LLB997]

Interesting to me that 3 weeks ago Avon Cobourne was settling in to a career in the insurance industry yet he's still a top 50 player in the league.

[paulwoods13]

Top player lists or all-star teams are always based a lot on past accomplishments rather than mostly right now or last season - that's the way she goes; and when the media have a lot of say - yeah Ravi - i have little respect for most of the "football reporters" who cover the CFL - with a very few exceptions.

OV, I say this with a certain amount of affection and a great deal of respect. You have interesting opinions to share with us beyond your big 3 ("football reporters/journalists" are clueless/coaches should not "pencil in" players to certain positions/Canadian players, especially CIS players and even more especially CIS QBs, don't get the respect they deserve). We know how you feel about those things; you don't need to repeat one or more of them every time you post. I would actually like to know your opinion, in this example, of Shell and Parker as players, rather than your opinion of the voters who put them on the top-50 list. Care to share that?

[KCargosfan]

OV, I say this with a certain amount of affection and a great deal of respect. You have interesting opinions to share with us beyond your big 3 ("football reporters/journalists" are clueless/coaches should not "pencil in" players to certain positions/Canadian players, especially CIS players and even more especially CIS QBs, don't get the respect they deserve). We know how you feel about those things; you don't need to repeat one or more of them every time you post. I would actually like to know your opinion, in this example, of Shell and Parker as players, rather than your opinion of the voters who put them on the top-50 list. Care to share that?

Agreed......

[OV Argo]

OV, I say this with a certain amount of affection and a great deal of respect. You have interesting opinions to share with us beyond your big 3 ("football reporters/journalists" are clueless/coaches should not "pencil in" players to certain positions/Canadian players, especially CIS players and even more especially CIS QBs, don't get the respect they deserve). We know how you feel about those things; you don't need to repeat one or more of them every time you post. I would actually like to know your opinion, in this example, of Shell and Parker as players, rather than your opinion of the voters who put them on the top-50 list. Care to share that?

OK then - i didn't even look at that list- and honestly, it doesn't interest me.

But since you say Parker & Shell shouldn't be on it and McCullough maybe should? - based on last season, McCullough was IMO quite good and so was Shell; Parker may have had an off-year, but again, on a fishy defence? I wish the Argos still had both Parker & Shell and IMO the new DBs will probably struggle to be anywhere close to as good - even if they are "aggressive" fits for Jones' amazing defence or if they have faster 40 times; don't know if Parker & Shell deserve to be on a top 50 CFL list - and IMO a pretty tough call to make such a list given how many different positions there are in Canadian football. Probably should only be around 6 or 7 or so DBs on such a list IMO - i'd probably start with Banks, and maybe include Hefney and Johnson from the Bombers; i like Thompson for the Esks; Shell maybe, not so sure about Parker; but we'll see how they do this year.

And BTW Paul - speaking of assessments of individual players - i didn't notice you commenting on the release/cut of Canadian QBs Sinopoli and Quinlan - after quite limited ex. game chances; Harris has been pretty impressive (stats wise in ex. games i didn't get to see) as a young Argo QB, and maybe Collaros too - so maybe the Argos have some good young QBs to develop? - or maybe they could use another in the mix too? Sinoploi has the nice resume + size & mobility and a year of actual CFL roster experience; would it be worth a shot to bring him in for a look? IF the Argos really want to develop some young QBs, they could maybe think of getting rid of Jackson (over-rated IMO - experienced yes, but not that good plus i'm guessing would carry a very hefty back-up QB price tag - a bunch of other CFL teams have little in terms of vet back-ups) and then go with some young guys behind Ray? If the Bombers had cut the likes of Brink or Elliott (IMO both over-rated stiffs from what i've seen of them in some CFL opportunity) - would you or some other Argo fans be calling for them to be brought in?

[paulwoods13]

OK then - i didn't even look at that list- and honestly, it doesn't interest me.

But since you say Parker & Shell shouldn't be on it and McCullough maybe should? - based on last season, McCullough was IMO quite good and so was Shell; Parker may have had an off-year, but again, on a fishy defence? I wish the Argos still had both Parker & Shell and IMO the new DBs will probably struggle to be anywhere close to as good - even if they are "aggressive" fits for Jones' amazing defence or if they have faster 40 times; don't know if Parker & Shell deserve to be on a top 50 CFL list - and IMO a pretty tough call to make such a list given how many different positions there are in Canadian football. Probably should only be around 6 or 7 or so DBs on such a list IMO - i'd probably start with Banks, and maybe include Hefney and Johnson from the Bombers; i like Thompson for the Esks; Shell maybe, not so sure about Parker; but we'll see how they do this year.

And BTW Paul - speaking of assessments of individual players - i didn't notice you commenting on the release/cut of Canadian QBs Sinopoli and Quinlan - after quite limited ex. game chances; Harris has been pretty impressive (stats wise in ex. games i didn't get to see) as a young Argo QB, and maybe Collaros too - so maybe the Argos have some good young QBs to develop? - or maybe they could use another in the mix too? Sinoploi has the nice resume + size & mobility and a year of actual CFL roster experience; would it be worth a shot to bring him in for a look? IF the Argos really want to develop some young QBs, they could maybe think of getting rid of Jackson (over-rated IMO - experienced yes, but not that good plus i'm guessing would carry a very hefty back-up QB price tag - a bunch of other CFL teams have little in terms of vet back-ups) and then go with some young guys behind Ray? If the Bombers had cut the likes of Brink or Elliott (IMO both over-rated stiffs from what i've seen of them in some CFL opportunity) - would you or some other Argo fans be calling for them to be brought in?

Thanks. I like both Sinopoli and Quinlan, and would bring either guy to training camp next year if they are available. There is no point bringing Sinopoli in right now because I'm not even slightly interested in getting rid of either Jackson (only experienced backup we have -- and we disagree on the need for one of those, I guess -- also a good team guy, possesses a strong arm and good on short yardage) or Harris (looks to have a lot of potential, definitely worth hanging on to to see what he might develop into). A fourth QB (fifth if Collaros is actually practising) would not get any meaningful reps so would be a waste of a practice roster spot, IMO.

[OV Argo]

Yeah - hey, we'll see - no doubt a lot of CFL personnel decision makers have both Sinopoli and Quinlan high on their radar as potential QB prospects for the future ;o) - just look at all the ex. game opportunity/playing time they got compared to a raw rookie/new to the Canadian game out of Div II ball (Harris) got this TC season.

[paulwoods13]

Yeah - hey, we'll see - no doubt a lot of CFL personnel decision makers have both Sinopoli and Quinlan high on their radar as potential QB prospects for the future ;o) - just look at all the ex. game opportunity/playing time they got compared to a raw rookie/new to the Canadian game out of Div II ball (Harris) got this TC season.

Like I said, OV -- we might have figured out your position on this issue by now. You might try occasionally to resist the urge to go there again (and again).

;->

[OV Argo]

Like I said, OV -- we might have figured out your position on this issue by now. You might try occasionally to resist the urge to go there again (and again).

;->

Yeah - so little sense in flogging a dead horse - at least on that CFL topic anyhow - but if somebody wants to give a reasoned reply on the matter - I wouldn't mind hearing it - but please: no - "what conspiracy?" cliched BS.

[KCargosfan]

OV -- what is your take on our current OL?

[OV Argo]

OV -- what is your take on our current OL?


Well - some veteran presence for sure; is the report i read recently here that Keeping would be starting and Gagne-Marcoux not, accurate thoughÉ - that would be a real head scratcher IMO. Wayne Smith is an experienced vet and a talented player when healthy, but can he cut it at OT É - critical maybe to help protect Ray; seems they want to go with an all-NI O-line and that would be fine - Montreal`s unit is league best IMO - but hopefully none of them are in just because of the pencilled-in stuff (works against imports at times too) - but I wouldn`t assume any import could be a good OT just because of his birth certificate; real TC competition should have been key - hopefully it was.

[KCargosfan]

Well - some veteran presence for sure; is the report i read recently here that Keeping would be starting and Gagne-Marcoux not, accurate thoughÉ - that would be a real head scratcher IMO. Wayne Smith is an experienced vet and a talented player when healthy, but can he cut it at OT É - critical maybe to help protect Ray; seems they want to go with an all-NI O-line and that would be fine - Montreal`s unit is league best IMO - but hopefully none of them are in just because of the pencilled-in stuff (works against imports at times too) - but I wouldn`t assume any import could be a good OT just because of his birth certificate; real TC competition should have been key - hopefully it was.

Parenteau scares me at G. I remember him not having a great year last year in Sask, but maybe my memory is faulty. Hopefully these guys gel.

[paulwoods13]

I think it's going to take a bit of time for the line to gel, and a few different combinations may have to be used before the starting five are settled. I wasn't impressed with Gagne-Marcoux last season so I'm not disappointed that he is starting the year on the bench, but Parenteau will have to perform well to hold that spot. I share OV's concerns about Smith, who strikes me as more of a guard than a tackle, and needs to stay healthy, something he hasn't done the last two years. I really like VZ at RT and I think Eppele will be a strong force alongside him at RG, but if Smith falters or gets hurt, they may have to move Eppele to LT.

[doubleblue]

I still think Gagne-Marcoux's best position might be OC where he excelled in College. His Senior year he was rated 4th in the States in one College Publication I read. Div I Central Florida. To me he's the pro-to-type sized center for the CFL, 6'02 290 with enough speed to get out and block the MLB on running plays. I do know he always seemed to lead the starters in penalties ( I can remember Barker really chewing him out on the sidelines) so that could figure into their thinking. Milanovich is death on penalties.
Maybe they believe Keeping and or Parenteau give them better pass blocking because of their size. There are some big dudes in the league now at DT. Glad Huntley is on are side. If the Grey Cup has to go through BC again this year, the Argos are going to need guys with size and strength to combat DT's like Mitchell of the Lions. I can remember him pancaking Gagne-Marcoux last year, so that just may be another reason Cedric is a backup to start the season.
I think Eppele looks ok at OG, if they thought he could play LT I think he would be there seeing all the guys available to play guard. I think the Canadian with the best potential to play LT would be Reinders. He has the size, long arms, good feet. Only problem he is still chasing his NFL dream, but if he would have come to camp when they drafted him, he might have been ready to start there this year.
But I hope the line holds up and Ricky doesn't get taken out. But I am a little skeptical. I would feel better if the Argos had a big talented fullback who could block and protect Ricky's blind side. With a pinpoint passer like Ray, you don't need 5 or 6 receivers running all over the field, you just have to give him time IMO.

[Hollaway]

Nice to see 3 Argos in the top 20.

[OV Argo]

Parenteau scares me at G. I remember him not having a great year last year in Sask, but maybe my memory is faulty. Hopefully these guys gel.

I believe most of Parenteau's CFL experience is at guard; it was when he went in at C for the Riders that there were some questions about his fit there i think; and i'll point out once again - he was an all-star OT in a big Div I conference in college ball - why was he not tries there along with Smith or Van Zeyl?

Keeping at C over either Gagne-Marcoux or St-Pierre (both accomplished US college ball Cs) i still can't get - but maybe Keeping has made great strides in learning O-line and won the job? I don't buy Doubleblue's notion that you need great size at C - all sorts of star Cs in both the CFL and NFL have been under 300 - but they were athletic and smart and still strong - has Gagne-Marcoux been given a real shot at his natural position this TC - or did he not pan out at guard? Eppele may be ready at guard - i don't know - but again, his preevious experience in college ball was at OT; and Wayne Smith was more a natural guard too maybe - i think that's where he started out strong for the Ticats when he was first in the league. As for the notion of Reinders still ??? - please, he has shown zip to be able to play OT in the pros - there are draft choices every CFL draft who are accomplished college ball OTs - it's not just about size or long arms or quick feet - why don't the Argos draft a real OT prospect?

I hope the Argo O-line can gel into a strong unit with a bunch of guys not really playing there natural positions and still learning on the job.

[ArgoRavi]

The Argos did exactly what you have asked for OV. They had an open competition for all spots on the o-line with no pencilling-in.