In-Season Transaction / News Thread

[Will]

As usual, major news and transactions should get their own thread please.

[gilthethrill]

Yesterday the Argos brought in American OL Kofi Appiah and DB Caleb Holden while adding DB James Sample to the Retired List. Both newcomers are rookies.

[gilthethrill]

CFL Transactions report that both DB Shaq Richardson and OL Peter Nicastro have been added to the

[paulwoods13]

CFL Transactions report that both DB Shaq Richardson and OL Peter Nicastro have been added to the

. . . "injured veteran" list. I saw something a while ago indicating Nicastro would miss the start of the season, but this is first time I've heard about Ricardson.

[AngeloV]

. . . "injured veteran" list. I saw something a while ago indicating Nicastro would miss the start of the season, but this is first time I've heard about Ricardson.

They mentioned Nicastro would be out to start the season on TSN draft coverage. First I am hearing about Richardson as well. Good thing they have a lot of depth in the secondary, but hopefully he returns quickly.

[gilthethrill]

. . . "injured veteran" list. I saw something a while ago indicating Nicastro would miss the start of the season, but this is first time I've heard about Ricardson.

Thanks for finishing my post Paul I have issues using quotations recently.

[AngeloV]

Thanks for finishing my post Paul I have issues using quotations recently.

This site is not Apple friendly. Apostrophes are a no no.

[Argo57]

This site is not Apple friendly. Apostrophes are a no no.

Never was an issue until a few weeks ago?

[AngeloV]

Never was an issue until a few weeks ago?

More like a few months.

[OV Argo]

Draft pick Dionte Knight signed (didn't stick from NFL mini camps) - like to see this guy get a good look in TC - top DE in U Sports ball, but also size to play some DT in pro ball; added to Robbie Smith & Acheampong (plus Marion or Foote) gives Argos some deep Canadian talent on the D-Line.

[Will]

https://3downnation.com/2022/05/23/toronto-argonauts-sign-american-linebacker-jonathan-jones-release-one-other/

Argos sign LB Jonathan Jones and release WR Matt Gledhill.

[paulwoods13]

Looks as if Decoud has been released. Not surprised; he whiffed on a few tackles the other night.

[AngeloV]

Looks as if Decoud has been released. Not surprised; he whiffed on a few tackles the other night.

So much competition in the Argos secondary, I thought it was a bad sign for him when they moved him from corner to half.

[Will]

Looks as if Decoud has been released. Not surprised; he whiffed on a few tackles the other night.

He had a rough game for sure as did the entire defense after the Jamal Peters pick-six. As a second year player I thought he might get the benefit of the doubt, but I guess not.

[Will]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some notable names among the first big cut at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Argos</a> training camp. <a href="https://t.co/WDQkAUgQKQ">pic.twitter.com/WDQkAUgQKQ</a></p>&mdash; David Morassutti (@d_morassutti) <a href="https://twitter.com/d_morassutti/status/1530896342612070404?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 29, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Here is the list.

[Mocha]

Chandler Worthy? Huh, interesting.

I guess the team is happy with its latest Global draftees. Robo has been their usual active global over the past couple of seasons.

[Will]

Perhaps the Argos felt that they wouldn't get any higher quality of play out of Pipkin over Kelly if it came down to it.

[paulwoods13]

Chandler Worthy? Huh, interesting.

I guess the team is happy with its latest Global draftees. Robo has been their usual active global over the past couple of seasons.

The only Global that matters is Haggerty, who has potential to be the best punter in the league. Neither Robo nor Sato had any chance of being on the game roster (unless Bede got hurt).

As for Pipkin, he clearly has a much lower ceiling than Kelly (and probably Simmons). But I would not be surprised to see us bring in a veteran as insurance.

[Argo57]

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Here is the list.


Have to feel bad for Worthy but it speaks to the quality they have assembled at receiver, same applies for Decoud.
I was never sold on Pipkin as the backup, I guess Chad Kelly showed enough to secure the #2 spot at QB.
I will be very surprised if Shane Ray makes the team coming out of camp, just a gut feeling.
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[Will]

I would like Robbie Smith to lock down that DE spot opposite Ja'Gared Davis. He didn't have any sacks on Friday, but did get to the QB a few times. Shane Ray did come in with a lot of hype, but due to injuries we've just never seen them. Adrian Tracy is also on the roster as veteran insurance.

[Argo57]

I would like Robbie Smith to lock down that DE spot opposite Ja'Gared Davis. He didn't have any sacks on Friday, but did get to the QB a few times. Shane Ray did come in with a lot of hype, but due to injuries we've just never seen them. Adrian Tracy is also on the roster as veteran insurance.

100% agree, Robbie Smith looked very good and should be in the mix.

[paulwoods13]

I would like Robbie Smith to lock down that DE spot opposite Ja'Gared Davis. He didn't have any sacks on Friday, but did get to the QB a few times. Shane Ray did come in with a lot of hype, but due to injuries we've just never seen them. Adrian Tracy is also on the roster as veteran insurance.

I think Tracy is an under-the-radar signing who is going to make a big impact as a DE and a leader.

[paulwoods13]

But I would not be surprised to see us bring in a veteran as insurance.

Streveler? To be clear, I am not advocating for this, but he is an experienced QB and there aren't tons of those available.

[Will]

Streveler? To be clear, I am not advocating for this, but he is an experienced QB and there aren't tons of those available.

His name did come up first in my mind. I'm not certain who else is out there who would be an immediate upgrade over Pipkin. David Watford is, more or less, the same type of QB as Pipkin.

[AngeloV]

Streveler? To be clear, I am not advocating for this, but he is an experienced QB and there aren't tons of those available.

After another crappy performance, Dakota Prukop will likely become available again. Special teams demon. 

Seriously Isaac Harker would not be a bad pick for insurance. Streveler will be looking for too much money and I do not want him as #2. Watford sucks. No other way to put it.

[Stevoman]

I'm good with Kelly being #2 but also hoping MBT is healthy all year!

[Argo57]

I'm good with Kelly being #2 but also hoping MBT is healthy all year!

My feeling as well, if MBT gets hurt the Argos are screwed.
They need to sign another QB with some experience.
Watford would be a step backward from Pipkin, perhaps Harker is an option?

[OV Argo]

I heard a few guys on the team with OUA playing experience suggested to the staff that they put a call in to try to bring Chris Merchant (been playing pro in Europe the past couple of years) in for a look, but Dinwiddie said" "WHO ??? " ;o)

[Rich]

How much more value would Harker or Watford or even Streveler bring compared to Pipken?

What good is experience when its accompanied by a mediocre skillset?

I think Jake Maier has changed the calculus for CFL backup QBs. If you have faith that your young guys can grow into the job, then why waste a roster spot on some experienced journeyman. Clearly the staff has big belief in Kelly. But it was probably Simmons potential that helped them pull the trigger on Pips.

[Argo57]

I heard a few guys on the team with OUA playing experience suggested to the staff that they put a call in to try to bring Chris Merchant (been playing pro in Europe the past couple of years) in for a look, but Dinwiddie said" "WHO ??? " ;o)

I would applaud a move like this but I suspect it will not happen now that training camp has started.
With all the mediocrity at backup QB league wide he should be participating at a CFL camp.

[Mocha]

I would applaud a move like this but I suspect it will not happen now that training camp has started.
With all the mediocrity at backup QB league wide he should be participating at a CFL camp.

Well, starting next year (or is it this year?), he'd at least count toward the ratio.

[Mocha]

The only Global that matters is Haggerty, who has potential to be the best punter in the league. Neither Robo nor Sato had any chance of being on the game roster (unless Bede got hurt).

As for Pipkin, he clearly has a much lower ceiling than Kelly (and probably Simmons). But I would not be surprised to see us bring in a veteran as insurance.

Do you think they'll have Haggerty do the punting and Bede stick to FGs and kickoffs this season?

[paulwoods13]

Do you think they'll have Haggerty do the punting and Bede stick to FGs and kickoffs this season?

Precisely. The Argos have potential to have the best kicking in the league. Some teams are really struggling to find good kickers and punters. With the new punting rules, it's vitally important to have a reliable direction-and-distance punter. Haggerty could be that, and it will save Bede's leg for the two things he most excels at.

[paulwoods13]

This is not about a transaction, but I note that Hamilton has placed Lemar Durant, Carter Woodmansey and Tyler Ternowski on the six-game. That really decimates their NAT receiver depth, and Woodmansey was apparently getting first-team reps at centre. It's imperative, IMO, that we not lose someone like Giffen, Zamora or Baker to the Ticats. I could live with losing Nield, I suppose. Keep the other guys on active or injured list rather than expose them to waivers or practice roster scoop rules.

[gilthethrill]

This is not about a transaction, but I note that Hamilton has placed Lemar Durant, Carter Woodmansey and Tyler Ternowski on the six-game. That really decimates their NAT receiver depth, and Woodmansey was apparently getting first-team reps at centre. It's imperative, IMO, that we not lose someone like Giffen, Zamora or Baker to the Ticats. I could live with losing Nield, I suppose. Keep the other guys on active or injured list rather than expose them to waivers or practice roster scoop rules.

Also noticed that Hamilton put CVZ on the Active Roster again. Perhaps Tate returns to Hamilton where it all began.

[gilthethrill]

Precisely. The Argos have potential to have the best kicking in the league. Some teams are really struggling to find good kickers and punters. With the new punting rules, it's vitally important to have a reliable direction-and-distance punter. Haggerty could be that, and it will save Bede's leg for the two things he most excels at.

This could be the most prolific Argo kicking tandem since Lance Chomyc and Hank Ilesic.

[OV Argo]

This is not about a transaction, but I note that Hamilton has placed Lemar Durant, Carter Woodmansey and Tyler Ternowski on the six-game. That really decimates their NAT receiver depth, and Woodmansey was apparently getting first-team reps at centre. It's imperative, IMO, that we not lose someone like Giffen, Zamora or Baker to the Ticats. I could live with losing Nield, I suppose. Keep the other guys on active or injured list rather than expose them to waivers or practice roster scoop rules.

What is the rule with the 6 game injured list? - does it include upcoming ex. games? And can a player on that list be moved to the 1 game or back on to the roster whenever, or does he have to stay out for 6 games ?

If the Ticats plan to go with at least one starting Canadian receiver, they are now down to just Ungerer (looked decent in ultra limited targets) and a couple of young guys with no pro experience and not exactly highly rated CFL draft prospects; but mind you, maybe they have plans for last year's 1st overall draft pick - tight end or H-back (?) - Jake Burt to play a major role in their offence? - I'll believe that when i see it though (and if he ends up playing 2 or 3 snaps a game - what a total embarassment of a 1st overall draft pick). They might have really been counting on Durant to be their one NI starting receiver with Ungerer and Ternowski for depth, but now that is scuttled ? - or is it, if both Durant & Ternowski can come off the 6 game whenever ?

As far as picking up O-line depth with Woodmansey out - Ottawa just has to cut some former draft pick or experienced O-linemen with all the guys they had in camp - they already cut former draft Pickett who started some for them last season.

[paulwoods13]

Durant was expected to be a starter, and Ternowski was apparently seeing a lot of action on offence as well. They definitely need to find at least one more NAT receiver somewhere. I assume the six-game does not include preseason games, but who knows?

[OV Argo]

Durant was expected to be a starter, and Ternowski was apparently seeing a lot of action on offence as well. They definitely need to find at least one more NAT receiver somewhere. I assume the six-game does not include preseason games, but who knows?

The 6 game is also a tool to defer on some $M$ ? But there is a limit to # of guys who can be moved off it? Still not sure how it works, but could be they are just stashing Durant there for some reason now? Did not hear of the nature to his & Ternowski's injury. They maybe should have drafted an extra receiver but maybe they really like Smith who they got mid rounds ?

[paulwoods13]

The 6 game is also a tool to defer on some $M$ ? But there is a limit to # of guys who can be moved off it? Still not sure how it works, but could be they are just stashing Durant there for some reason now? Did not hear of the nature to his & Ternowski's injury.

There's virtually no chance he is being used as some sort of cap manoeuvre, IMO. There is no salary cap at all before the season starts, since no one is getting paid, so there's no way to use the six at this point for any sort of saving. He was their big signing in the receiving corps and among NATs, projected as a guaranteed starter from the day they signed him.

My understanding is SMS savings from six-gaming someone go away completely if a player comes off the list before six games have passed. So either he's really hurt and will miss at least six games, or he's not that badly hurt and will be activated early, with no salary cap savings. I assume it is the former, given how much they were counting on him to start.

[ArgoRavi]

After another crappy performance, Dakota Prukop will likely become available again. Special teams demon. 

Seriously Isaac Harker would not be a bad pick for insurance. Streveler will be looking for too much money and I do not want him as #2. Watford sucks. No other way to put it.

I have never been a Streveler fan and I agree on Watford. I don't think Pipkin is a bad QB but, clearly, Dinwiddie likes Kelly better and is also high on Simmons. I think they have already decided who their three QBs will be to start the regular season. I believe that they will only bring in a veteran QB is someone gets injured.

[AngeloV]

Pipkin to BC and Worthy to the Als. The Worthy loss hurts me personally more than Pipkin.

[paulwoods13]

I liked Worthy, but he had a lot of chances with this organization and could never establish himself as a regular on offence. And our kick returns have been pedestrian for a few seasons. Not all his fault, obviously, but I don't think he was ever going to be the answer we have been looking for at returner.

[gilthethrill]

I liked Worthy, but he had a lot of chances with this organization and could never establish himself as a regular on offence. And our kick returns have been pedestrian for a few seasons. Not all his fault, obviously, but I don't think he was ever going to be the answer we have been looking for at returner.

Last season when Worthy was cut in favour of the since departed Daniel Braverman, it was soon apparent that the Argo brain trust erred. 9.7 yards per PR and 22.7 yards per KR are not pedestrian numbers. Apparently Montreal agrees as he was not unemployed for long. It will be interesting to see how Chandler does along with another former Argo castoff KR in Mario Alford.

[OV Argo]

Last season when Worthy was cut in favour of the since departed Daniel Braverman, it was soon apparent that the Argo brain trust erred. 9.7 yards per PR and 22.7 yards per KR are not pedestrian numbers. Apparently Montreal agrees as he was not unemployed for long. It will be interesting to see how Chandler does along with another former Argo castoff KR in Mario Alford.


Alford has been a super dangerous returner when healthy.

Can't see Worthy making their game roster - either as a receiver or returner. They are apparently going to roll with 2 NI receivers - J-Grant & Mayala (over from the Stumps) but they have some good young NI receivers (like draft pick Philpot) = plenty of depth there (as do the Argos)

[Rich]

Well since we're on the topic of potential regret about players moving elsewhere, I noticed that Nick Arbuckle absolutely lit it up in his preseason game, and I gotta say that if he outplays MBT this year and we don't win it all, I'm gonna feel pretty sick about it.

The good news it that I think we could win it all this year even if MBT is the 3rd, 4th or even 5th best QB in the league. Teams with top defences and top running games tend to do well in the playoffs, right?

[gilthethrill]

Well since we're on the topic of potential regret about players moving elsewhere, I noticed that Nick Arbuckle absolutely lit it up in his preseason game, and I gotta say that if he outplays MBT this year and we don't win it all, I'm gonna feel pretty sick about it.

The good news it that I think we could win it all this year even if MBT is the 3rd, 4th or even 5th best QB in the league. Teams with top defences and top running games tend to do well in the playoffs, right?

Dominique Davis lit up the Hamilton D last Friday night too. Hopefully that is a trend that happens in Steeltown all season!

[paulwoods13]

Last season when Worthy was cut in favour of the since departed Daniel Braverman, it was soon apparent that the Argo brain trust erred. 9.7 yards per PR and 22.7 yards per KR are not pedestrian numbers. Apparently Montreal agrees as he was not unemployed for long. It will be interesting to see how Chandler does along with another former Argo castoff KR in Mario Alford.

IMO the problem with Worthy as a returner was that he rarely, if ever, broke a big runback. His averages were OK, but most of his returns were right around the average. As I noted, though, not all his fault. We had bad special teams (apart from Bede) all of last season.

[AngeloV]

Well since we're on the topic of potential regret about players moving elsewhere, I noticed that Nick Arbuckle absolutely lit it up in his preseason game, and I gotta say that if he outplays MBT this year and we don't win it all, I'm gonna feel pretty sick about it.

The good news it that I think we could win it all this year even if MBT is the 3rd, 4th or even 5th best QB in the league. Teams with top defences and top running games tend to do well in the playoffs, right?

I am sure the fact that Edmonton had an extra 3 days of camp (as did Calgary who also routed their opponent) had nothing to do with his success.

[Scooter McCray]

Arbuckle was the only QB to straight up beat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers last year. He deserves an opportunity to compete fir a starting job somewhere. Hopefully that's Edmonton now.

[Will]

Well since we're on the topic of potential regret about players moving elsewhere, I noticed that Nick Arbuckle absolutely lit it up in his preseason game, and I gotta say that if he outplays MBT this year and we don't win it all, I'm gonna feel pretty sick about it.

The good news it that I think we could win it all this year even if MBT is the 3rd, 4th or even 5th best QB in the league. Teams with top defences and top running games tend to do well in the playoffs, right?

Let's hope that Andrew Harris remains healthy.

[Will]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have traded the playing rights of American OL Martez Ivey and DB Jalen Collins to Edmonton for a 6th round pick in the 2023 CFL Draft.</p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts Media Relations (@ArgonautsMR) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArgonautsMR/status/1533540706198904843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Doesn't make much sense to me:

a. We have little depth on the OL as it is
b. Why trade Collins who looked so good down the stretch when the secondary was playing so well?

[paulwoods13]

Collins obviously beaten out by McFadden, but this seems like a low return. I really liked Collins last season.

[Will]

Collins obviously beaten out by McFadden, but this seems like a low return. I really liked Collins last season.

I think this trade is a mistake, the Argos secondary played so well last year down the stretch and Collins insertion into the lineup was a big part of that. We don't know how McFadden's play will translate from the pre-season to the regular season either.

This has Alden Darby for Terry Poole written all over it.

[Will]

I don't even know if Shaq Richardson participated in 1 day of training camp, nobody knows (or has asked) what his status is so what the hell are we going around trading DBs?

[Argo57]

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Doesn't make much sense to me:

a. We have little depth on the OL as it is
b. Why trade Collins who looked so good down the stretch when the secondary was playing so well?


WTF, a 6th round pick?<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.d7fc2fc075c61f6fa34d79a0cbbf1e34.htm l?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argofans.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;"></iframe>

[AngeloV]

I think this trade is a mistake, the Argos secondary played so well last year down the stretch and Collins insertion into the lineup was a big part of that. We don't know how McFadden's play will translate from the pre-season to the regular season either.

This has Alden Darby for Terry Poole written all over it.

I liked Collins a lot too, but this is still a position of strength. McFadden looked awesome, and Peters looked just as good the week before. They still have last years game 1 starter in Roberson Daniel, and Matt Boateng is a pretty damn good back up. I don't think they will be hurting too much. Also have to take into account a new DC, who may not have felt as good about Collins in his system as Chris Jones obviously does. Regarding the low return, unless you are talking about a QB, American players just don't fetch much in trades, That is just the way it is in the CFL. Hell, even in the NFL I see established (non QB) players getting traded for middle round picks. That's football in a nutshell.

I see absolutely no similarities in this move with Darby last year. Darby was a 3 year Argo that made his home here year round and was visible in the off season promotions. To me that trade was bad from all aspects.

[gilthethrill]

Traded the Playing Rights? Are not both Ivey and Collins in the league? I feel Collins would have been a League All Star this year with the Argos. Seems the Argos wanted Ivey and Collins out of town ASAP.

[ArgoRavi]

Traded the Playing Rights? Are not both Ivey and Collins in the league? I feel Collins would have been a League All Star this year with the Argos. Seems the Argos wanted Ivey and Collins out of town ASAP.

They would have had to cut those guys outright so getting a 6th round pick for them is a better return than they would have seen otherwise.

[Rich]

I'm glad they kept Ouellette over Leake. If they put him on the PR the Lions surely take him to reunite with the QB he shared a starting backfield with for 3 years in college. But I love the way the guy plays, they didn't call him the bulldozer in those days for nothin, he runs hard and plays angry, good at passpro and a good receiver, I think he will be an important piece of this offence.

I know the roster as listed will be pared down by injuries, but I was surprised to see both Isaiah Wright and Cam Phillips make the team at WR. Clearly we're looking at 4 American starting receivers, we haven't seen Brescasin is he hurt again? I know Brissett is banged up too.

And I love there are 11 D-Linemen listed on the roster and 5 are Canadian. It's a beautiful thing.

[gilthethrill]

I don't even know if Shaq Richardson participated in 1 day of training camp, nobody knows (or has asked) what his status is so what the hell are we going around trading DBs?

Good questions about Richardson. I see he is listed on the roster however he was on the Veterans Injured List to start TC. And do not bring up the Alden Darby for Terry Poole trade ever again.

[Will]

Explaining the Jalen Collins trade (https://www.xsandargos.com/post/explaining-the-jalen-collins-trade)

Ben feels there may have been a disconnect between Collins and the new coaches that led to this deal. It is also noteworthy that he came on board after Chris Jones did, which suggests that he might be one of Chris Jones' guys.

[Smallz38]

My first thought upon reading the trade was that Chris Jones wanted Collins since he already knew Jones' system. Judging by how we only got a 6th back instead of of a 3rd or 4th it must instead be that we were sadly going to cut him anyway and made an offer to the Elks first. There have definitely been some surprising cuts, but this has also been one of the deepest training camp rosters I have seen the Argos have, so there were loads of tough decisions to be made. Fortunately we have 5 months of football to find out if they were the right ones!

[AngeloV]

I'm glad they kept Ouellette over Leake. If they put him on the PR the Lions surely take him to reunite with the QB he shared a starting backfield with for 3 years in college. But I love the way the guy plays, they didn't call him the bulldozer in those days for nothin, he runs hard and plays angry, good at passpro and a good receiver, I think he will be an important piece of this offence.

.

I think you are jumping to conclusions a bit here Rich. I am pretty sure that Leake will be ahead of Oulette on the roster when all is said and done. Leake came up limping after a kick return last game and with the roster shuffling done yesterday and no doubt still to come over the next 10 days, I see Leake as the clear cut top American back on the roster. He just brings more versatility than Oulette.

[Will]

Robertson Daniel will miss 6-8 weeks as per Ziccarelli with a hamstring tear.

Andrew Harris was practicing though and should play against BC.

[gilthethrill]

Robertson Daniel will miss 6-8 weeks as per Ziccarelli with a hamstring tear.

Andrew Harris was practicing though and should play against BC.

Does the team bring back TC cuts at DB to replace the fallen Daniel?

[paulwoods13]

Does the team bring back TC cuts at DB to replace the fallen Daniel?Jeez, I hated letting Collins go before, and I really hate it now.

[AngeloV]

Jeez, I hated letting Collins go before, and I really hate it now.

I did too, but He didn’t look too good against the Riders on Saturday. Maybe just a case of getting used to his new team. Let’s hope Peters is back this week.

[ArgoRavi]

I did too, but He didn’t look too good against the Riders on Saturday. Maybe just a case of getting used to his new team. Let’s hope Peters is back this week.

Both Collins and Decoud have had their struggles with the Elks but things may get better for both as that team gels.

You have to feel badly for Daniel, who I think is an excellent player. He suffered a concussion in the opener last year and couldn't get back into the lineup until the regular season finale and then he gets hurt in the opener this year. Very tough luck.

[argolio]

Injuries suck.

[Will]

Earnest Edwards was released. I wonder if they're making room to bring in another DB.

[ArgoRavi]

The injury update is generally good as the Argos prepare to face the Bombers on Monday. The Argos have beaten Winnipeg three of the past four times they have played at BMO Field.

https://www.cfl.ca/2022/06/30/argos-bombers-injury-report-harris-limited-demski-on-the-injured-list/

[paulwoods13]

It's great to see several guys back to healthy and able to practice. We better hope that Cage can go, because clearly Allen cannot.

[gilthethrill]

OL Theren Churchill has been added to Active Roster then the Injured List? I gather he is nearing a return?

[paulwoods13]

OL Theren Churchill has been added to Active Roster then the Injured List? I gather he is nearing a return?

Let's hope so -- we really need him.

[paulwoods13]

Matt Boateng has been released, according to 3DN. Guess Sutton has supplanted him as best NAT option to plug into secondary. Boateng is a good player who will likely find another job, but kind of small for a DB (5-11, 169 according to Argo website).

[OV Argo]

Matt Boateng has been released, according to 3DN. Guess Sutton has supplanted him as best NAT option to plug into secondary. Boateng is a good player who will likely find another job, but kind of small for a DB (5-11, 169 according to Argo website).

Sutton was measured at 5-9, 172 at the CFL Combine.

I guess A. Colquhon's football career is done? - or is it / did I miss an announcement ?; he was a far superior DB talent compared to Boateng or Sutton, IMO.

[AngeloV]

Matt Boateng has been released, according to 3DN. Guess Sutton has supplanted him as best NAT option to plug into secondary. Boateng is a good player who will likely find another job, but kind of small for a DB (5-11, 169 according to Argo website).

I don't like this move. I think Boateng has showed promise every time he has been given a chance to play. I can't help but wonder if the dumbass Global thing contributed to this. Tiggie Sankoh dressed over Boateng last game. Sure would be nice to scrap this Global initiative and add Canadian spots to those held by Globals. It's beyond me how a league can mandate a Global spot replacing a National.

[Argo57]

I don't like this move. I think Boateng has showed promise every time he has been given a chance to play. I can't help but wonder if the dumbass Global thing contributed to this. Tiggie Sankoh dressed over Boateng last game. Sure would be nice to scrap this Global initiative and add Canadian spots to those held by Globals. It's beyond me how a league can mandate a Global spot replacing a National.

In Randy we trust!

[ArgoRavi]

Sutton was measured at 5-9, 172 at the CFL Combine.

I guess A. Colquhon's football career is done? - or is it / did I miss an announcement ?; he was a far superior DB talent compared to Boateng or Sutton, IMO.

Colquhoun sustained a career-ending injury in Montreal late last season and now works for MLSE, OV.

[paulwoods13]

Austin Simmons has retired, to be replaced by Khalil Tate who was in Edmonton's training camp. Better keep MBT and Kelly healthy.

[AngeloV]

Austin Simmons has retired, to be replaced by Khalil Tate who was in Edmonton's training camp. Better keep MBT and Kelly healthy.

Not sure why Simmons retirement makes it more important to keep MBT and Kelly healthy. I had no confidence in Simmons at all.

[paulwoods13]

Not sure why Simmons retirement makes it more important to keep MBT and Kelly healthy. I had no confidence in Simmons at all.

Nor did I, but at least he had been exposed to the playbook. But you are right -- our situation basically hasn't changed. Tate might at least have some long-term potential; Simmons did not, IMO.

[gilthethrill]

Nor did I, but at least he had been exposed to the playbook. But you are right -- our situation basically hasn't changed. Tate might at least have some long-term potential; Simmons did not, IMO.

Tate certainly possesses a lot of athleticism. I would think Edmonton released him prior to TC is that Jones elected to use Kai Locksley in the QB/WR slot instead of Tate who looks like he could perform in that role.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Austin Simmons for his contributions to the Toronto Argonauts and wish him well in his future endeavours.

[AngeloV]

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Austin Simmons for his contributions to the Toronto Argonauts and wish him well in his future endeavours.

Excellent!!

[Argo57]

Tate certainly possesses a lot of athleticism. I would think Edmonton released him prior to TC is that Jones elected to use Kai Locksley in the QB/WR slot instead of Tate who looks like he could perform in that role.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Austin Simmons for his contributions to the Toronto Argonauts and wish him well in his future endeavours.

A classy send off as always!!

["Issues"Mcgee]

Austin Simmons has retired, to be replaced by Khalil Tate who was in Edmonton's training camp. Better keep MBT and Kelly healthy.

If Tate can do sneaks and short yard drives then he will certainly help. The Argos have been less than adequate in that department so far this season.

[Rich]

Love the Tate signing, a huge upgrade from Simmons. He was a 3-year starter in a Power 5 conference, that’s a lot of high-level experience. A great athlete but also won academic awards, a solid guy from a solid family. Started a game in his freshman year at age 17, and still only 23. Gained fame as a running QB but in 2018 had a TD/Int ratio of 26:8 in 11 games. Big potential. This move’s got Jim Barker’s fingerprints all over it.

[paulwoods13]

If Tate can do sneaks and short yard drives then he will certainly help. The Argos have been less than adequate in that department so far this season.

I don't see the Argos going back to dressing three QBs. That would require sitting a DB/STer (Sankoh). I think this Tate is here for injury insurance and future.

[AngeloV]

Love the Tate signing, a huge upgrade from Simmons. He was a 3-year starter in a Power 5 conference, that’s a lot of high-level experience. A great athlete but also won academic awards, a solid guy from a solid family. Started a game in his freshman year at age 17, and still only 23. Gained fame as a running QB but in 2018 had a TD/Int ratio of 26:8 in 11 games. Big potential. This move’s got Jim Barker’s fingerprints all over it.

I don’t hold much hope for players that were 50% passers in college. I don’t think he’ll be an Argo for long.

[Argo57]

I don’t hold much hope for players that were 50% passers in college. I don’t think he’ll be an Argo for long.

Looks like he was more of a run first QB in college and not so much of a passing threat which won’t bode well in the CFL.

[paulwoods13]

I don’t hold much hope for players that were 50% passers in college. I don’t think he’ll be an Argo for long.

Not disagreeing re Tate, but FTR Rourke completed only 58% of his passes at Ohio.

[gilthethrill]

Looks like he was more of a run first QB in college and not so much of a passing threat which won’t bode well in the CFL.

I can’t help but wonder that in a league that needs young QBs, why was Tate available this late in the season?

[paulwoods13]

I can’t help but wonder that in a league that needs young QBs, why was Tate available this late in the season?

Edm has been spitting them out for weeks, it seems.

[Rich]

I don’t hold much hope for players that were 50% passers in college. I don’t think he’ll be an Argo for long.

Other than # of starts I don’t think college stats are terribly relevant, but if they were Argo fans would be absolutely thrilled with a QB who threw 2.4 TD passes/game like Tate did in 2018.

[Rich]

Not disagreeing re Tate, but FTR Rourke completed only 58% of his passes at Ohio.

And Rourke was a 4-year starter at Ohio, which I think goes a long way to explain his poise at this level.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't like this move. I think Boateng has showed promise every time he has been given a chance to play. I can't help but wonder if the dumbass Global thing contributed to this. Tiggie Sankoh dressed over Boateng last game. Sure would be nice to scrap this Global initiative and add Canadian spots to those held by Globals. It's beyond me how a league can mandate a Global spot replacing a National.

Here's an explanation as to why Boateng was released: https://www.xsandargos.com/post/death-of-the-canadian-corner

[AngeloV]

Here's an explanation as to why Boateng was released: https://www.xsandargos.com/post/death-of-the-canadian-corner

It's a theory, but a short sighted one. I personally think Boateng is better than some starters in the league. I saw him fight through blocks to make a great play on a WR screen in the pre season and hit the receive for a loss, so physicality can't be the real reason.

[AngeloV]

Other than # of starts I don’t think college stats are terribly relevant, but if they were Argo fans would be absolutely thrilled with a QB who threw 2.4 TD passes/game like Tate did in 2018.

He was a 5 star recruit and predicted to be a Heisman candidate out of high school, but by all accounts disappointed in College.
Tino Sunseri threw 49td's to 24picks at Pitt. How good was his CFL career?
Nick Marshall had even a better ratio of 34-13 at Auburn, arguably playing against the best NCAA football teams there are. Yet, his CFL career is that of a DB.
I know you are enamored by guys from power 5 schools Rich (but to be honest calling the Pac 10 a power 5 is a bit of a stretch these days). Yet most of the really successful CFL QB's have come out of lesser known schools and conferences. Tate's best year in college was his junior season, when his team when 5-7. They went 4-8 in his last year.

Hey, I hope I am wrong, and he turns into a stud. I just don't have high hopes for it.

[Argo57]

It's a theory, but a short sighted one. I personally think Boateng is better than some starters in the league. I saw him fight through blocks to make a great play on a WR screen in the pre season and hit the receive for a loss, so physicality can't be the real reason.

Add this to the list of ??? personnel decisions that this team has made this season.

[AngeloV]

Add this to the list of ??? personnel decisions that this team has made this season.

I think this is at the top of the list. Cutting quality Canadians is never smart in this league. Other than Worthy, I really have no issue with any of the other roster decisions.

[ArgoRavi]

He was a 5 star recruit and predicted to be a Heisman candidate out of high school, but by all accounts disappointed in College.
Tino Sunseri threw 49td's to 24picks at Pitt. How good was his CFL career?
Nick Marshall had even a better ratio of 34-13 at Auburn, arguably playing against the best NCAA football teams there are. Yet, his CFL career is that of a DB.
I know you are enamored by guys from power 5 schools Rich (but to be honest calling the Pac 10 a power 5 is a bit of a stretch these days). Yet most of the really successful CFL QB's have come out of lesser known schools and conferences. Tate's best year in college was his junior season, when his team when 5-7. They went 4-8 in his last year.

Hey, I hope I am wrong, and he turns into a stud. I just don't have high hopes for it.

Henry Burris had a terrible win-loss record in college, didn't he? Not saying that Tate is going to turn into Henry Burris but perhaps there were a lot of reasons, other than Tate, for his team's poor performance.

[AngeloV]

Henry Burris had a terrible win-loss record in college, didn't he? Not saying that Tate is going to turn into Henry Burris but perhaps there were a lot of reasons, other than Tate, for his team's poor performance.

It’s possible Ravi. And as I said, I hope I am wrong. But he didn’t measure up to his hype when being recruited. Maybe a late bloomer.

[paulwoods13]

I think this is at the top of the list. Cutting quality Canadians is never smart in this league. Other than Worthy, I really have no issue with any of the other roster decisions.

Ivey *cough cough*

[AngeloV]

Ivey *cough cough*

I have no idea how good Ivey is. I haven’t really paid attention to Elks o-line play, but with the injuries we’ve had along o-line, your point is well taken.

[paulwoods13]

With Cage having missed all of last year due to injury, and Tate having yet to prove himself, there was zero justification for trading Ivey. We absolutely needed four OTs on the roster. And clearly whatever Kofi Appiah might become someday, he is not deemed to be ready to play at this time.

We also released AJ Richardson today. He's one of several INT receivers we felt were worth keeping ahead of Worthy. (Obviously I am not ready to move on yet.)

[ArgoRavi]

With Cage having missed all of last year due to injury, and Tate having yet to prove himself, there was zero justification for trading Ivey. We absolutely needed four OTs on the roster. And clearly whatever Kofi Appiah might become someday, he is not deemed to be ready to play at this time.

We also released AJ Richardson today. He's one of several INT receivers we felt were worth keeping ahead of Worthy. (Obviously I am not ready to move on yet.)

This Richardson release is an interesting one as he was supposed to play last week but, according to Dinwiddie post-game on Sunday, he sustained an injury and now he is released today. I suspect that there is more to this story but we will probably never hear it. It's too bad though, as I was excited to see Richardson play.

[paulwoods13]

This Richardson release is an interesting one as he was supposed to play last week but, according to Dinwiddie post-game on Sunday, he sustained an injury and now he is released today. I suspect that there is more to this story but we will probably never hear it. It's too bad though, as I was excited to see Richardson play.

I am skeptical about reports that Richardson was spozed to play last week. I was told by a trustworthy source early last week that Coxie was likely to replace Daniels. Obviously he did not run out of Daniels' spot much (if at all) during the game, but he did dress. Maybe the plan changed as the week went along.

[paulwoods13]

I am skeptical about reports that Richardson was spozed to play last week. I was told by a trustworthy source early last week that Coxie was likely to replace Daniels. Obviously he did not run out of Daniels' spot much (if at all) during the game, but he did dress. Maybe the plan changed as the week went along.

I stand corrected. I talked again to my source, and it's true that Richardson was spozed to start on Sunday, but got hurt a day or two before. That screwed up a lot of things as it cascaded through the receiving corps, with guys running out of unfamiliar positions and routes they had not run much before.

[Argo57]

Argos sign 3 players including USFL QB Ben Holmes.

https://3downnation.com/2022/08/03/toronto-argonauts-sign-three-including-american-quarterback-ben-holmes/

[paulwoods13]

Argos sign 3 players including USFL QB Ben Holmes.

https://3downnation.com/2022/08/03/toronto-argonauts-sign-three-including-american-quarterback-ben-holmes/

The only position we should be signing guys for right now is o-line. Today neither Blake nor Allen practised, and Lawrence was limited. And Cage is not even showing on the injury report, so I very much doubt he will be back this week. We are down to no starting-calibre offensive tackles, and maybe no experienced centre.

[AngeloV]

I stand corrected. I talked again to my source, and it's true that Richardson was spozed to start on Sunday, but got hurt a day or two before. That screwed up a lot of things as it cascaded through the receiving corps, with guys running out of unfamiliar positions and routes they had not run much before.

I have not seen confirmation on this, but I think this release perhaps is a sign that the Argos will be getting injured receivers back this week. Rogers and Brescacin are both eligible to return. As much as Ambles and Philips have done an adequate job thus far, I really think the Argos offence will be better with the bigger receivers in the line-up.

[ArgoRavi]

I stand corrected. I talked again to my source, and it's true that Richardson was spozed to start on Sunday, but got hurt a day or two before. That screwed up a lot of things as it cascaded through the receiving corps, with guys running out of unfamiliar positions and routes they had not run much before.

That's exactly what Dinwiddie said post-game on Sunday.

[ArgoRavi]

I have not seen confirmation on this, but I think this release perhaps is a sign that the Argos will be getting injured receivers back this week. Rogers and Brescacin are both eligible to return. As much as Ambles and Philips have done an adequate job thus far, I really think the Argos offence will be better with the bigger receivers in the line-up.

Ben Grant reported on Twitter today that both Rogers and Brescacin went full-out in practice and that Lawrence and Blake looked good too; he is worried about Allen though.

Sounds like Cage is still some time away.

OV is of the belief that CIS tackles can transition okay into CFL tackles and that may get tested out this week with someone like Churchill.

[paulwoods13]

As I wrote just now on Twitter, I will believe Rogers and Brescacin are in the lineup when their names appear on the depth chart. Something seems off to me with how those two have been handled. Is salary saving taking precedence over the best possible roster? I think that is a possibility, sadly.

[paulwoods13]

That's exactly what Dinwiddie said post-game on Sunday.

So why would they change a bunch of positions at the last minute? Wouldn't it have been better to have four guys run out of their usual position, running patterns they knew? That seems like am unforced coaching error to me

[Argo57]

So why would they change a bunch of positions at the last minute? Wouldn't it have been better to have four guys run out of their usual position, running patterns they knew? That seems like am unforced coaching error to me

It is a bit of a head scratcher?

[AngeloV]

As I wrote just now on Twitter, I will believe Rogers and Brescacin are in the lineup when their names appear on the depth chart. Something seems off to me with how those two have been handled. Is salary saving taking precedence over the best possible roster? I think that is a possibility, sadly.

Ye of little faith.

I'm looking forward to both of them being in the line-up. My guess is that they may have been ready to play this past game, but that's a lot of cap space to save between the 2 of them. It may mean the difference in being able to sign or trade for a good tackle at some point.

[paulwoods13]

We will know in less than 48 hours whether either guy is in this week's lineup.

[AngeloV]

We will know in less than 48 hours whether either guy is in this week's lineup.

In all the years we have conversed, I have never know you to be so pessimistic towards the Argos.

[argolio]

The only position we should be signing guys for right now is o-line. Today neither Blake nor Allen practised, and Lawrence was limited. And Cage is not even showing on the injury report, so I very much doubt he will be back this week. We are down to no starting-calibre offensive tackles, and maybe no experienced centre.We should always be open to signing guys regardless of position, but the fact the o-line is still unsettled a third into the season is not a good sign.

[paulwoods13]

In all the years we have conversed, I have never know you to be so pessimistic towards the Argos.

Oddly, I am not all that pessimistic. I believe we have enough talent, and strong enough leaders, to overcome the mistakes coaches and management have made to date. The one place this could get totally derailed, however, is the o-line. If we can't find five guys capable of starting, and keep them healthy, we're likely sunk. Unfortunately I do not currently have much confidence in that, with Tate likely done for the season, Cage's condition (as with any concussion) troublesome and unpredictable, Allen seeming to battle one injury after another, and now Blake and Lawrence being limited. Nicastro is still weeks away, at best. So we have a healthy (hopefully) Bladek, plus Richards, Churchill and a pile of wounded warriors and question marks. And as we all know, o-line is just about the hardest position (along with QB) to recruit for in mid-season. NATs are all spoken for, and internationals don't become available until Labour Day at the earliest. Maybe we will get lucky and find Doxtator or Hunter among early NFL cuts, but I'm definitely not counting on that.

[AngeloV]

Oddly, I am not all that pessimistic. I believe we have enough talent, and strong enough leaders, to overcome the mistakes coaches and management have made to date. The one place this could get totally derailed, however, is the o-line. If we can't find five guys capable of starting, and keep them healthy, we're likely sunk. Unfortunately I do not currently have much confidence in that, with Tate likely done for the season, Cage's condition (as with any concussion) troublesome and unpredictable, Allen seeming to battle one injury after another, and now Blake and Lawrence being limited. Nicastro is still weeks away, at best. So we have a healthy (hopefully) Bladek, plus Richards, Churchill and a pile of wounded warriors and question marks. And as we all know, o-line is just about the hardest position (along with QB) to recruit for in mid-season. NATs are all spoken for, and internationals don't become available until Labour Day at the earliest. Maybe we will get lucky and find Doxtator or Hunter among early NFL cuts, but I'm definitely not counting on that.

I don’t disagree that the lnjuries on the line are worrisome. Again, hoping the money the saved by keeping Rogers and Brescacin on the 6 game for the full term allows them to bring in some help there.

[Argo57]

I don’t disagree that the lnjuries on the line are worrisome. Again, hoping the money the saved by keeping Rogers and Brescacin on the 6 game for the full term allows them to bring in some help there.

Other teams are also struggling with the quality of their OL, seems an industry wide shortage of quality players.

[AngeloV]

Other teams are also struggling with the quality of their OL, seems an industry wide shortage of quality players.

This is true. Bombers and thus far Lions being the exception

[paulwoods13]

There is zero question that o-line is an industry-wide scarce commodity. They are almost impossible to find at the moment, regardless of how much money has been saved by six-gaming big-salary guys. Hence my repeated objections to trading a promising, huge tackle who had been with the team late last season, played at a major Division 1 school and showed a nasty streak in the season finale, for nothing that can help pursue a championship in 2022. Especially when one of our three remaining experienced tackles had not played in 2 1/2 years, and another was unproven at best. I'm boring even myself with my repeated complaints about this, but I can't help criticizing a mgmt decision that seems completely unjustifiable.

[AngeloV]

There is zero question that o-line is an industry-wide scarce commodity. They are almost impossible to find at the moment, regardless of how much money has been saved by six-gaming big-salary guys. Hence my repeated objections to trading a promising, huge tackle who had been with the team late last season, played at a major Division 1 school and showed a nasty streak in the season finale, for nothing that can help pursue a championship in 2022. Especially when one of our three remaining experienced tackles had not played in 2 1/2 years, and another was unproven at best. I'm boring even myself with my repeated complaints about this, but I can't help criticizing a mgmt decision that seems completely unjustifiable.

But clearly they were in a bind Paul. I believe the reason they kept Tate over Ivey was his ability to play either tackle spot. Only so many players a team can keep, and clearly they did not want to release a drafted player. Appiah is obviously a project which is why he is on the PR. Honestly, and I know we disagree, I am perfectly fine playing Richards at RT. I have watched most of the games twice, and he has not been bad. Beaten a few times, but who hasn't?

[ArgoRavi]

But clearly they were in a bind Paul. I believe the reason they kept Tate over Ivey was his ability to play either tackle spot. Only so many players a team can keep, and clearly they did not want to release a drafted player. Appiah is obviously a project which is why he is on the PR. Honestly, and I know we disagree, I am perfectly fine playing Richards at RT. I have watched most of the games twice, and he has not been bad. Beaten a few times, but who hasn't?

It's also possible that Ivey didn't want to stick around as a backup and demanded a trade. There is so much happening that, unfortunately, we are not privy to.

[paulwoods13]

It's also possible that Ivey didn't want to stick around as a backup and demanded a trade. There is so much happening that, unfortunately, we are not privy to.

Yes, that is possible. And if it went down that way, mgmt might have chosen not to accept such a meagre return. Or might have told him no, you signed a contract with us and if you don't want to play here, you can retire. Not ideal, obviously. But this is all speculation anyway. Bottom line is we let a guy we could really have used (two, including Worthy) go for basically nothing, which makes no sense to me if we are competing to win a championship this year.

[paulwoods13]

But clearly they were in a bind Paul. I believe the reason they kept Tate over Ivey was his ability to play either tackle spot. Only so many players a team can keep, and clearly they did not want to release a drafted player. Appiah is obviously a project which is why he is on the PR. Honestly, and I know we disagree, I am perfectly fine playing Richards at RT. I have watched most of the games twice, and he has not been bad. Beaten a few times, but who hasn't?

I hope Richards proves me wrong, of course.

[AngeloV]

Yes, that is possible. And if it went down that way, mgmt might have chosen not to accept such a meagre return. Or might have told him no, you signed a contract with us and if you don't want to play here, you can retire. Not ideal, obviously. But this is all speculation anyway. Bottom line is we let a guy we could really have used (two, including Worthy) go for basically nothing, which makes no sense to me if we are competing to win a championship this year.

Another issue is that a player doesn’t have to accept a PR spot, so he may have just left if that was offered to him anyway.

[AngeloV]

Love the Tate signing, a huge upgrade from Simmons. He was a 3-year starter in a Power 5 conference, that’s a lot of high-level experience. A great athlete but also won academic awards, a solid guy from a solid family. Started a game in his freshman year at age 17, and still only 23. Gained fame as a running QB but in 2018 had a TD/Int ratio of 26:8 in 11 games. Big potential. This move’s got Jim Barker’s fingerprints all over it.

Well that didn’t last long. He was cut today.

[Will]

Argos re-signed LS Latour who filled in admirably when Reinhart went down last year. Hopefully this is for depth and not because Jake is out.

Maurice Carnell IV was also brought back, which worries me that Shaq may be out.

[paulwoods13]

Based on how they looked on the sidelines on Saturday (Richardson out of uniform, Reinhart frustrated), I think we can safely assume both guys will be out for a while. Very disappointing for Reinhart, who is the best LS in the business, and fought to come back from a gruesome injury.

[AngeloV]

Argos re-signed LS Latour who filled in admirably when Reinhart went down last year. Hopefully this is for depth and not because Jake is out.

Maurice Carnell IV was also brought back, which worries me that Shaq may be out.

I liked what I saw of Carnell in the scrimmage in Guelph and was surprised he was cut, but I think he was cut due to injury. Richardson is too valuable to lose for a long period of time, but I really like the way Preister stepped up and the way he has played all year.

[Rich]

Well that didn’t last long. He was cut today.

Meh, we’ve already got a much better prospect than Tate lined up as our QB of the future, and if our current starter continues to deliver barely adequate performances week after week, that future may arrive sooner than you think.

[AngeloV]

Meh, we’ve already got a much better prospect than Tate lined up as our QB of the future, and if our current starter continues to deliver barely adequate performances week after week, that future may arrive sooner than you think.

OK Rich.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Since we are on the subject, has anyone noticed MBT looks and sounds a bit like Kramer from Seinfeld, or am I alone on this one?

[OV Argo]

Since we are on the subject, has anyone noticed MBT looks and sounds a bit like Kramer from Seinfeld, or am I alone on this one?

Ha, ha; there was an episode where Jerry had an extra Super Bowl ticket, and somebody suggested giving it to Kramer, but Jerry replied: " no, he's only interested in Canadian football" ;o)

[Argo57]

Meh, we’ve already got a much better prospect than Tate lined up as our QB of the future, and if our current starter continues to deliver barely adequate performances week after week, that future may arrive sooner than you think.

Sounds like you are hoping MBT sucks and the Argos lose so that you can say “I told you so” or you are simply trying to elicit a response from fans who support MBT?

["Issues"Mcgee]

Ha, ha; there was an episode where Jerry had an extra Super Bowl ticket, and somebody suggested giving it to Kramer, but Jerry replied: " no, he's only interested in Canadian football" ;o)

Hahaha! I've had coworkers in the past call me Kramer for that exact reason.

[paulwoods13]

Based on today's injury report, I expect we will go into this week's game (and likely beyond) without Reinhart, Richardson and Rogers. Rogers has a quad injury, which I believe is the same thing that put him on the six in the first place. That really sucks as he is not only our most experienced receiver, he also sets a physical tone with his downfield blocking.

Marion and McFadden also did not practice today, but hopefully they can play this week.

Ticats, BTW, had 13 guys on the "did not practice" list today. I can't recall a game where so many players from one team were left lying on the field for long stretches after collisions of one sort or another. That was just a fluke, no doubt (altho our special teams units were really bringing the wood), but we might get the benefit of facing a team with a lot of guys hurting or out altogether.

[paulwoods13]

Since we are on the subject, has anyone noticed MBT looks and sounds a bit like Kramer from Seinfeld, or am I alone on this one?

Call me unobservant, but I don't see (or hear) it.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Call me unobservant, but I don't see (or hear) it.

https://www.argonauts.ca/2022/08/06/mcleod-bethel-thompson-postgame-august-6-2022/

Exhibit A, my friend.

[ArgoRavi]

https://www.argonauts.ca/2022/08/06/mcleod-bethel-thompson-postgame-august-6-2022/

Exhibit A, my friend.

Not sure I see the Kramer comparison either but MBT is one of the best interviewees in the league.

[ArgoRavi]

Based on today's injury report, I expect we will go into this week's game (and likely beyond) without Reinhart, Richardson and Rogers. Rogers has a quad injury, which I believe is the same thing that put him on the six in the first place. That really sucks as he is not only our most experienced receiver, he also sets a physical tone with his downfield blocking.

Marion and McFadden also did not practice today, but hopefully they can play this week.

Ticats, BTW, had 13 guys on the "did not practice" list today. I can't recall a game where so many players from one team were left lying on the field for long stretches after collisions of one sort or another. That was just a fluke, no doubt (altho our special teams units were really bringing the wood), but we might get the benefit of facing a team with a lot of guys hurting or out altogether.

Marcus Neilson, who writes some excellent stuff on Facebook, was at practice today and got some good information. Apparently, Reinhart is out for 4 to 6 weeks. The injury report has him as having an elbow injury so I wonder if he re-injured the elbow that he so badly injured last year.

The Argos seem beaten up a bit in the defensive backfield so good to see the return of Carnell IV who appeared to impress in training camp but was a late cut due to injury, as AV mentioned.

Dane Evans, by the way, did not practise today for the Ticats due to a shoulder injury.

[AngeloV]

Based on today's injury report, I expect we will go into this week's game (and likely beyond) without Reinhart, Richardson and Rogers. Rogers has a quad injury, which I believe is the same thing that put him on the six in the first place. That really sucks as he is not only our most experienced receiver, he also sets a physical tone with his downfield blocking.

Marion and McFadden also did not practice today, but hopefully they can play this week.

Ticats, BTW, had 13 guys on the "did not practice" list today. I can't recall a game where so many players from one team were left lying on the field for long stretches after collisions of one sort or another. That was just a fluke, no doubt (altho our special teams units were really bringing the wood), but we might get the benefit of facing a team with a lot of guys hurting or out altogether.

I don't really believe injury lists until after the last practice before game day. So tomorrow's injury report will be more telling. If Rogers can't go, I hope Brescacin starts in his place.

On a side note, it would be really nice if the Argos website would provide video every day of the media availability. They have really dropped off the last 4 or 5 weeks. So frustrating for people like me.

[ArgoZ]

https://www.argonauts.ca/2022/08/06/mcleod-bethel-thompson-postgame-august-6-2022/

Exhibit A, my friend.

Watched every episode of Seinfeld. MBT has some similar (more reserved) mannerisms to Kramer. The voice, especially in the start of this video, is bang on. Funny stuff.

[ArgoGabe22]

https://www.argonauts.ca/2022/08/06/mcleod-bethel-thompson-postgame-august-6-2022/

Exhibit A, my friend.

I wouldn’t say he reminds of Kramer but the first thing he says “There were a lot of turning points” sure sounds a lot like Kramer.

[Rich]

Sounds like you are hoping MBT sucks and the Argos lose so that you can say “I told you so” or you are simply trying to elicit a response from fans who support MBT?

Holy crow all I was trying to say was that the Argos will need better QBing than we got in the last two games, if we want to go the distance. Mac himself said as much after the game.

I’ll tell you what I’m hoping for Argo57. I’m hoping for better Argo QBing. If Mac can put two really good halfs of football together in a big Argo win, no one will be happier than me. Ask anyone I know.

Here’s an idea. Next time Mac struggles for 1.5 quarters, why not have a package of plays ready for Chad Kelly, throw him in there for a series or two, and mix things up a little bit. If it doesn’t work out Mac comes back in with a new focus. It’s win-win. Who would disagree?

But want to emphasize I am not, repeat not, hoping Mac struggles for 1.5 quarters. I’ve seen enough of that to last a lifetime ;-)

[Argo57]

Holy crow all I was trying to say was that the Argos will need better QBing than we got in the last two games, if we want to go the distance. Mac himself said as much after the game.

I’ll tell you what I’m hoping for Argo57. I’m hoping for better Argo QBing. If Mac can put two really good halfs of football together in a big Argo win, no one will be happier than me. Ask anyone I know.

Here’s an idea. Next time Mac struggles for 1.5 quarters, why not have a package of plays ready for Chad Kelly, throw him in there for a series or two, and mix things up a little bit. If it doesn’t work out Mac comes back in with a new focus. It’s win-win. Who would disagree?

But want to emphasize I am not, repeat not, hoping Mac struggles for 1.5 quarters. I’ve seen enough of that to last a lifetime ;-)

I tell you what I’m hoping for as well Rich, better play by the O-Line in front of MBT.
MBT sure makes his share of mistakes but he takes a lot of unwarranted abuse IMO.
The O-Line got completely dominated in the first half against Hamilton on Saturday which contributed greatly to the Argo O struggles but “MBT sucks”.
Your post implies that MBT is the only reason the Argos O struggles which is way off base IMO.

[AngeloV]

Holy crow all I was trying to say was that the Argos will need better QBing than we got in the last two games, if we want to go the distance. Mac himself said as much after the game.

I’ll tell you what I’m hoping for Argo57. I’m hoping for better Argo QBing. If Mac can put two really good halfs of football together in a big Argo win, no one will be happier than me. Ask anyone I know.

Here’s an idea. Next time Mac struggles for 1.5 quarters, why not have a package of plays ready for Chad Kelly, throw him in there for a series or two, and mix things up a little bit. If it doesn’t work out Mac comes back in with a new focus. It’s win-win. Who would disagree?

But want to emphasize I am not, repeat not, hoping Mac struggles for 1.5 quarters. I’ve seen enough of that to last a lifetime ;-)

You are looking at it as MBT is struggling for 1.5 quarters, when in fact it's the offence that is struggling. I guess he's the reason that there has been no running game to speak of the last 2 games as well. He must be the reason the O-line has been mauled for long periods of play over those games. Putting in Kelly for a drive or 2 here or there in a close game would be a huge mistake. MBT is not turning the ball over at all. That's a big reason they have been in games with the chance to pull out victory in the late stages. Fact is, he has been no worse than the 3rd best QB in the league this season. With Rourke having a historic year and Collaros being the past MOP winner and 2 time defending champion, it just blows my mind how little respect he gets from Argos fans.

[Rich]

I tell you what I’m hoping for as well Rich, better play by the O-Line in front of MBT.
MBT sure makes his share of mistakes but he takes a lot of unwarranted abuse IMO.
The O-Line got completely dominated in the first half against Hamilton on Saturday which contributed greatly to the Argo O struggles but “MBT sucks”.
Your post implies that MBT is the only reason the Argos O struggles which is way off base IMO.

I agree 100% that McLeod and the OLine both deserve their fair share of blame when the offence struggles. Thee’s no doubt the O-line is a work in progress. But the OLine gets blamed, questioned and sometimes denigrated on this board on a regular basis. Individual O-Linemen like Trevon Tate have been singled out for what you call unwarranted abuse, but hey, as long as it’s not restricted language that’s alright because this board is for expressing opinions about the Argonauts.

Except if you want to talk about the QBs and everyone’s like uh, we don’t talk about that at the dinner table. I said Mac needs to play better if we hope to win a Cup, and I got called a disloyal fan. Why isn’t talking about the QB the same as talking about any other player? Why is it such a taboo subject?

[Rich]

You are looking at it as MBT is struggling for 1.5 quarters, when in fact it's the offence that is struggling. I guess he's the reason that there has been no running game to speak of the last 2 games as well. He must be the reason the O-line has been mauled for long periods of play over those games. Putting in Kelly for a drive or 2 here or there in a close game would be a huge mistake. MBT is not turning the ball over at all. That's a big reason they have been in games with the chance to pull out victory in the late stages. Fact is, he has been no worse than the 3rd best QB in the league this season. With Rourke having a historic year and Collaros being the past MOP winner and 2 time defending champion, it just blows my mind how little respect he gets from Argos fans.

On several occasions Angelo I’ve expressed my respect for Mac’s teamwork, his determination and his toughness. He doesn’t throw many picks, which is excellent, and his accuracy problems aren’t necessarily a deal breaker because he can, and he has, suddenly turn things around and start throwing dimes.

To me his biggest shortcoming is his below average escapability/footwork, and IMO it’s starting to hold this team back. He may be the 3rd or 4th best QB in the league, but he is easily the least mobile. A porous O-Line and below-average mobility QB is a bad combination.

All great QBs know how to take a couple of quick steps in the face of the rush and buy 2 more seconds. Mac just doesn’t have the quick feet, and I wonder about his pocket awareness too. When he finally did escape a sack he threw a TD, just imagine if he could evade just a couple more sacks per game. Is there still hope he can improve this aspect of his game? It seems unlikely, but I’d love to see it.

[Argo57]

I agree 100% that McLeod and the OLine both deserve their fair share of blame when the offence struggles. Thee’s no doubt the O-line is a work in progress. But the OLine gets blamed, questioned and sometimes denigrated on this board on a regular basis. Individual O-Linemen like Trevon Tate have been singled out for what you call unwarranted abuse, but hey, as long as it’s not restricted language that’s alright because this board is for expressing opinions about the Argonauts.

Except if you want to talk about the QBs and everyone’s like uh, we don’t talk about that at the dinner table. I said Mac needs to play better if we hope to win a Cup, and I got called a disloyal fan. Why isn’t talking about the QB the same as talking about any other player? Why is it such a taboo subject?

I have been critical of MBT when warranted, IMO he gets way too much crap on a regular basis when he is not the problem.
“Mac struggles” are in fact the struggles of the entire O, poor pass protection, route running, dropped passes, questionable play calls and yes some missed reads and errant passes.
We hear it in our section a lot, MBT gets sacked with zero time to look downfield and fans are yelling “Thompson you stink” which shows they have no clue why the play transpired as such.
Let’s hope they put in a good effort tomorrow night in Hamilton.

[AngeloV]

On several occasions Angelo I’ve expressed my respect for Mac’s teamwork, his determination and his toughness. He doesn’t throw many picks, which is excellent, and his accuracy problems aren’t necessarily a deal breaker because he can, and he has, suddenly turn things around and start throwing dimes.

To me his biggest shortcoming is his below average escapability/footwork, and IMO it’s starting to hold this team back. He may be the 3rd or 4th best QB in the league, but he is easily the least mobile. A porous O-Line and below-average mobility QB is a bad combination.

All great QBs know how to take a couple of quick steps in the face of the rush and buy 2 more seconds. Mac just doesn’t have the quick feet, and I wonder about his pocket awareness too. When he finally did escape a sack he threw a TD, just imagine if he could evade just a couple more sacks per game. Is there still hope he can improve this aspect of his game? It seems unlikely, but I’d love to see it.

Sorry Rich. I really disagree. His footwork is actually very good. Having played the position I can factually say that. He is not overly mobile, but not nearly a immobile as you are saying. I would say the majority of the sacks allowed have nothing to do with his mobility.

[paulwoods13]

All great QBs know how to take a couple of quick steps in the face of the rush and buy 2 more seconds. Mac just doesn’t have the quick feet, and I wonder about his pocket awareness too. When he finally did escape a sack he threw a TD, just imagine if he could evade just a couple more sacks per game. Is there still hope he can improve this aspect of his game? It seems unlikely, but I’d love to see it.

He is not the most mobile QB in the league, but he has more than enough mobility/escapability to be considered in the upper echelon of quarterbacks in this league. It would be great if he could evade every potential sack, but IMO no QB could have evaded some (if not all) of the three last weekend. When rushers get a free shot from both sides, the QB is pooched.

[paulwoods13]

I have been critical of MBT when warranted, IMO he gets way too much crap on a regular basis when he is not the problem.
“Mac struggles” are in fact the struggles of the entire O, poor pass protection, route running, dropped passes, questionable play calls and yes some missed reads and errant passes.
We hear it in our section a lot, MBT gets sacked with zero time to look downfield and fans are yelling “Thompson you stink” which shows they have no clue why the play transpired as such.

Truth. The QB -- and particularly this QB -- is always blamed by folks who don't seem to realize how much goes into being successful offensively. All of those problems you mention have happened at times (and often at times) this year. IMO the QB has been the least of our worries offensively.

[AngeloV]

Depth chart is out. No Rogers or Brescacin who are both listed on the 6 game (although I predict Brescacin’s return next week. Hopefully Rogers isn’t on the 6 for it’s entirety. Banks moves back to Boundary WR and Daniels to Slot. I personally would keep Daniels at WR and move Nield to Slot. Banks should be rotating at the other slot positions. Allen is a GTD on the o-line but listed as starting RT.

Priester starts for Shaq and Carnell draws in over Holden as the back up.

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Aug-12-2022-vs-HAM-Depth-PDF.pdf

[OV Argo]

On several occasions Angelo I’ve expressed my respect for Mac’s teamwork, his determination and his toughness. He doesn’t throw many picks, which is excellent, and his accuracy problems aren’t necessarily a deal breaker because he can, and he has, suddenly turn things around and start throwing dimes.

To me his biggest shortcoming is his below average escapability/footwork, and IMO it’s starting to hold this team back. He may be the 3rd or 4th best QB in the league, but he is easily the least mobile. A porous O-Line and below-average mobility QB is a bad combination.

All great QBs know how to take a couple of quick steps in the face of the rush and buy 2 more seconds. Mac just doesn’t have the quick feet, and I wonder about his pocket awareness too. When he finally did escape a sack he threw a TD, just imagine if he could evade just a couple more sacks per game. Is there still hope he can improve this aspect of his game? It seems unlikely, but I’d love to see it.

And for a limited mobility QB, playing in a pass heavy offence with not near enough run game and variety to take the pass rush heat off, reads, decision making and passing accuracy are most important IMO. MBT is an average QB talent at best in these areas IMO, and misses way too many open receivers on deeper balls. He's not top 3 in the league.

I don't think MBT is a poor QB or all to blame for poor Argo offence outings, but I'm also not into blindly defending all Argo players just because. Laughable that Trevor Harris can be cut-down or criticized by some for his QB play/skills, but MacBeth is supposed to be off limits here - nice play Shakespeare ?

[paulwoods13]

And for a limited mobility QB, playing in a pass heavy offence with not near enough run game and variety to take the pass rush heat off, reads, decision making and passing accuracy are most important IMO. MBT is an average QB talent at best in these areas IMO, and misses way too many open receivers on deeper balls. He's not top 3 in the league.


So who is? I'll spot you Rourke and Collaros. Who among the other six starting QBs is better than MBT? Not in the past five years (Bo) but right now, this year?

[AngeloV]

So who is? I'll spot you Rourke and Collaros. Who among the other six starting QBs is better than MBT? Not in the past five years (Bo) but right now, this year?


Sinagra, Merchant and Richard. Wise up Paul.

[Rich]

So who is? I'll spot you Rourke and Collaros. Who among the other six starting QBs is better than MBT? Not in the past five years (Bo) but right now, this year?

I would rate Fajardo over Mac. Their passing stats are remarkably similar at this point, but Fajardo’s ability to extend plays with his feet or scramble for yardage is IMO a big advantage in a 3 down league.

[OV Argo]

I would rate Fajardo over Mac. Their passing stats are remarkably similar at this point, but Fajardo’s ability to extend plays with his feet or scramble for yardage is IMO a big advantage in a 3 down league.

Bovine, Fajardo, Trevor Harris, Masoli at their best were all quite a bit better than MBT - just more overall QB talent; sorry bout that AV Homer.

Agreed on the mobility thing Rich.

I wonder if Vernon Adams was the Argo QB how many fans he would have here defending him as a superior, top level CFL QB ?

[AngeloV]

I wonder if Vernon Adams was the Argo QB how many fans he would have here defending him as a superior, top level CFL QB ?

I already do that. He’s much better than Harris.

[paulwoods13]

Bovine, Fajardo, Trevor Harris, Masoli at their best were all quite a bit better than MBT - just more overall QB talent; sorry bout that AV Homer.


"At their best," huh? So what about right now, 2022? You rate any of those guys better than MBT right now?

For the record, I would never -- at their best or right this minute -- have taken Fajardo and Harris over MBT. Obviously Bo at his best was elite, but he hasn't been at his best since what, 2018? Masoli IMO is underrated and is in the same ballpark as MBT, and might have been better at his peak.

[OV Argo]

"At their best," huh? So what about right now, 2022? You rate any of those guys better than MBT right now?

For the record, I would never -- at their best or right this minute -- have taken Fajardo and Harris over MBT. Obviously Bo at his best was elite, but he hasn't been at his best since what, 2018? Masoli IMO is underrated and is in the same ballpark as MBT, and might have been better at his peak.


Any of the QBs I mentioned above would do easily as well, and likely better, than MBT leading the current / right this minute Argo offence, IMO.

[OV Argo]

I already do that. He’s much better than Harris.


I'm a fan of Vernon Adams - since seeing him play in the US Shrine college all-star game; I think he has some serious QB skills, BUT has not progressed and I now think he just cannot read good enough and throws too many iffy /pick balls and does not get spreading the ball around to all his receivers.

Trevor Harris has three 4000 yard & one 5000 yards passing seasons on his CFL resume; he has also put together 2 of the best QB performances in CFL play-off history (29 for 32 and a play-off record 6 TDs with the RedBlacks, and in 2019 East cross-over Semi for the Elks he went 36 for 39 (92.3 %) and 421 yards). When either of Vernon Adams or MBT have anything close to these accomplishments on their CFL resumes, we could re-visit the topic.

[paulwoods13]

Any of the QBs I mentioned above would do easily as well, and likely better, than MBT leading the current / right this minute Argo offence, IMO.

Obviously we have a very strong difference of opinion. How you can prefer Fajardo and Harris, in particular, over MBT is just mind-boggling to me.

[AngeloV]

I'm a fan of Vernon Adams - since seeing him play in the US Shrine college all-star game; I think he has some serious QB skills, BUT has not progressed and I now think he just cannot read good enough and throws too many iffy /pick balls and does not get spreading the ball around to all his receivers.

Trevor Harris has three 4000 yard & one 5000 yards passing seasons on his CFL resume; he has also put together 2 of the best QB performances in CFL play-off history (29 for 32 and a play-off record 6 TDs with the RedBlacks, and in 2019 East cross-over Semi for the Elks he went 36 for 39 (92.3 %) and 421 yards). When either of Vernon Adams or MBT have anything close to these accomplishments on their CFL resumes, we could re-visit the topic.

But we’re not talking about the past. I know you can’t help it sometimes. Trevor Harris 2021-2022 is not that Trevor Harris. He is awful now. His record as a starter proves it.

[paulwoods13]

he has also put together 2 of the best QB performances in CFL play-off history (29 for 32 and a play-off record 6 TDs with the RedBlacks, and in 2019 East cross-over Semi for the Elks he went 36 for 39 (92.3 %) and 421 yards).

How did he do the following weeks?

[OV Argo]

How did he do the following weeks?

And MBT has won exactly what as the Argo QB ? Anything ? Ever put up an outstanding big game performance with eye-popping stats ?

[paulwoods13]

And MBT has won exactly what as the Argo QB ? Anything ? Ever put up an outstanding big game performance with eye-popping stats ?

My question was very specifically about one player, Trevor Harris. I get that answering it truthfully might undercut your point, so I looked it up myself:

2018 Grey Cup (after 29/32/367/6/0 in EF) he went 20/38/288/1/3

2019 Eastern Final (after 36/39/421/1/1 in ESF) he went 29/41/319/1/2

So two TDs and five INTs in those particular elimination games, and passing percentages well below the previous weeks.

But if we're basing our judgment on who the top 3 QBs this year are on single-game performances three and four years ago, I suppose you are correct.

[Argo57]

Any of the QBs I mentioned above would do easily as well, and likely better, than MBT leading the current / right this minute Argo offence, IMO.

I think we’ll all agree that any of the mentioned QB’s are way better than Tom Clements.

[OV Argo]

My question was very specifically about one player, Trevor Harris. I get that answering it truthfully might undercut your point, so I looked it up myself:

2018 Grey Cup (after 29/32/367/6/0 in EF) he went 20/38/288/1/3

2019 Eastern Final (after 36/39/421/1/1 in ESF) he went 29/41/319/1/2

So two TDs and five INTs in those particular elimination games, and passing percentages well below the previous weeks.

But if we're basing our judgment on who the top 3 QBs this year are on single-game performances three and four years ago, I suppose you are correct.


So what do you want to go with - cherry-pick MBT's best game and put it up against some poor outings by Harris?; or how bout just roll with I'll defend anything Argo?

A QB's resume includes some good with bad usually no? But outstanding or league best QBs have put up at least some great or record setting games or great stat seasons, plus led their team to lots of wins. Harris has wayyyy more on his CFL resume than MBT; but if Harris is an old, faded, washed-up QB now, I wouldn't want him on my team; I don't believe he is near that, though his best days might certainly be behind him.

Rourke and Collaros are having great QB seasons "this year"; if you think MBT is too, hey, have at 'er.

[AngeloV]

I think we’ll all agree that any of the mentioned QB’s are way better than Tom Clements.

Not better. Just not as overrated.

[OV Argo]

Yeah, Clements was no MBT level QB talent. LOL

[paulwoods13]

So what do you want to go with - cherry-pick MBT's best game and put it up against some poor outings by Harris?; or how bout just roll with I'll defend anything Argo?

A QB's resume includes some good with bad usually no? But outstanding or league best QBs have put up at least some great or record setting games or great stat seasons, plus led their team to lots of wins. Harris has wayyyy more on his CFL resume than MBT; but if Harris is an old, faded, washed-up QB now, I wouldn't want him on my team; I don't believe he is near that, though his best days might certainly be behind him.

Rourke and Collaros are having great QB seasons "this year"; if you think MBT is too, hey, have at 'er.

I'll give you credit -- you could teach a master class in deflection.

[AngeloV]

Yeah, Clements was no MBT level QB talent. LOL

When did I say he wasn’t as good as MBT? Just because I feel he was overrated doesn’t mean I think he sucked. At least I live in the present as far as present day players are concerned.

[Scooter McCray]

If it's one thing I hate, is seeing Americans fighting Americans. We've got the lousy Huns to fight. You think the Krauts believe I Walt Disney? Yeah, well, was that Mickey Mouse I saw blitzkrieging across France? Pluto in Poland? Or Donald Duck at Pearl Harbor?
We sure as he'll didn't start this war, but by God, we sure as he'll are going to finish it.
We're all Argo fans. And it's game day. Time to take out the TiCat trash.
It's MBTs team whether fans like it or not. He's not on the Argo Mt. Rushmore of QBs and that's all that matters. It's time he grabbed the reins and runs with them. Bury the TiCats. Take 3 of these 4 games.

[paulwoods13]

It appears there is a very good chance Harris's season is over, and at his age that might mean his career, sadly.

I believe Ouellette (if healthy) can be an adequate replacement, but it gives us less roster flexibility, and we definitely need to find another back in case of injury. Leake might be it, but that remains to be seen. Adeboboye deserves some reps, and will likely get some, but asking him to carry the primary load might be a bit much at this stage of his career.

[Scooter McCray]

It appears there is a very good chance Harris's season is over, and at his age that might mean his career, sadly.

I believe Ouellette (if healthy) can be an adequate replacement, but it gives us less roster flexibility, and we definitely need to find another back in case of injury. Leake might be it, but that remains to be seen. Adeboboye deserves some reps, and will likely get some, but asking him to carry the primary load might be a bit much at this stage of his career. Whatever is the injury? If he is done we have no hope of winning a Grey Cup.

[AngeloV]

It appears there is a very good chance Harris's season is over, and at his age that might mean his career, sadly.

I believe Ouellette (if healthy) can be an adequate replacement, but it gives us less roster flexibility, and we definitely need to find another back in case of injury. Leake might be it, but that remains to be seen. Adeboboye deserves some reps, and will likely get some, but asking him to carry the primary load might be a bit much at this stage of his career.

This is a reason I really wanted them to sign Maleek Irons when he was available. I say give Adeboboye a shot. They may have no choice because Oulette also left Friday’s game with an injury. Personally, I am more concerned with the health of the receivers.

[ArgoRavi]

Whatever is the injury? If he is done we have no hope of winning a Grey Cup.

Harris has a suspected torn pectoral muscle, according to 3Down Nation.

[ArgoRavi]

This is a reason I really wanted them to sign Maleek Irons when he was available. I say give Adeboboye a shot. They may have no choice because Oulette also left Friday’s game with an injury. Personally, I am more concerned with the health of the receivers.

Depending on a 35 year-old running back with a lot of mileage on him was always going to be a bit of a crapshoot. If they have to go with some kind of running back by committee thing, then so be it. I too am concerned with the health of the receivers. About the only saving grace for Saturday night is that the Stamps have a beat up team and receiving corps too.

[paulwoods13]

The receivers, the running backs, the o-line . . . injuries are a huge concern for our offence at this point. The defence and specials are going to have to step up until we can get some guys back. I wonder if we will go to a more passing-oriented attack without Harris. Seeing B.C. throw the ball 52 times against Calgary (the most passes by any team this year) was eye-opening.

[gilthethrill]

The receivers, the running backs, the o-line . . . injuries are a huge concern for our offence at this point. The defence and specials are going to have to step up until we can get some guys back. I wonder if we will go to a more passing-oriented attack without Harris. Seeing B.C. throw the ball 52 times against Calgary (the most passes by any team this year) was eye-opening.

The only experienced T that could be readily available is 32 year old Justin Renfrow currently on Edmonton’s PR. Not clear if he can man the LT slot.

[Will]

This is a reason I really wanted them to sign Maleek Irons when he was available. I say give Adeboboye a shot. They may have no choice because Oulette also left Friday’s game with an injury. Personally, I am more concerned with the health of the receivers.

Yes, especially because it forces them to continue to play Banks.

[Will]

The receivers, the running backs, the o-line . . . injuries are a huge concern for our offence at this point. The defence and specials are going to have to step up until we can get some guys back. I wonder if we will go to a more passing-oriented attack without Harris. Seeing B.C. throw the ball 52 times against Calgary (the most passes by any team this year) was eye-opening.

Rourke > MBT

[ArgoRavi]

Rourke > MBT

The only QBs whom I would say are better than MBT currently are Rourke and Collaros. Bo Levi Mitchell has been playing at a similar level as MBT. Do we want to be throwing the ball 52 times though? I wonder if the Argos could convince DJ Foster to come back, which was a door that Dinwiddie seemed to leave open a few months back.

[gilthethrill]

Yes, especially because it forces them to continue to play Banks.

Not necessarily. There is a big option at R in Isiah Wright who has been on the roster already this season. His return game wasn’t anything to write home about but for the most part neither has Bank’s. Maybe the Argos should entertain a trade to Hamilton like AVs favourite CFL writer Josh Smith suggested….

[gilthethrill]

This is a reason I really wanted them to sign Maleek Irons when he was available. I say give Adeboboye a shot. They may have no choice because Oulette also left Friday’s game with an injury. Personally, I am more concerned with the health of the receivers.

There is always a good chance Irons could get cut by Jones like the rest of the roster.

[paulwoods13]

Rourke > MBT

Ya think?

Doesn't change the point, IMO. If we aren't likely to pose as much of a running threat without Harris (which seems likely), might want to leverage MBT's experience and toughness. It would require better play selections, and receivers (cough Banks cough) to run the correct routes and catch the damn ball, of course. And the o-line's ability to hold off rushers is a huge question. I am deeply concerned about the push teams are getting up the middle against Lawrence and the (promising but raw) MacKellar.

[OV Argo]

Too bad the Argos didn't hold on to draft pick Sam Baker at receiver (they might have GOB had him at "fullback" anyways) - a big target receiver who might have helped. But most CFL teams have their PRs loaded with imports over Canadians.

And speaking of "fullbacks", Dion Pellerin is another guy who might be useful to have around - to actually play his real position of tailback (and i thought he was good on STs last season, including a kick block and a 2 point convert on a pass out of tight end); GOBs tend to show not much respect for top Canadian RBs out of U Sports ball, but interesting that the Als have given Jeshrun Antwi lots of work replacing injured Stanback, and he has played well IMO, including 2 of the longest runs of the season so far; Pellerin is an even bigger back than Antwi and had as good or better tailback production in Canadian college ball.

[Argo57]

Andrew Harris out 4-6 weeks (possibly the rest of the season), Cam Phillips also out 3-4 weeks with a groin injury.
Not the best news, could be a rough stretch for the Argonauts.

https://3downnation.com/2022/08/16/argos-rb-andrew-harris-to-miss-at-least-four-to-six-weeks-with-torn-pectoral-muscle/

[Scooter McCray]

Harris has a suspected torn pectoral muscle, according to 3Down Nation.Thanks Ravi. My 25 year old son tore his last fall bench pressing. His was attached to bone so he had to have surgery within 2 weeks otherwise scar tissue builds and they can't repair it properly. He did physio for 4 months and could not even begin lifting light weight for 6 months. Can't imagine playing pro football especially as a North South runner.

[Scooter McCray]

Andrew Harris out 4-6 weeks (possibly the rest of the season), Cam Phillips also out 3-4 weeks with a groin injury.
Not the best news, could be a rough stretch for the Argonauts.

https://3downnation.com/2022/08/16/argos-rb-andrew-harris-to-miss-at-least-four-to-six-weeks-with-torn-pectoral-muscle/It's time some players on the injured list step up and contribute. Unless their careers are at risk duct tape me and get me out there. If Andrew Harris could still play this season with a torn pec, some other guys better look in the mirror.

[kellynjk]

The only QBs whom I would say are better than MBT currently are Rourke and Collaros. Bo Levi Mitchell has been playing at a similar level as MBT. Do we want to be throwing the ball 52 times though? I wonder if the Argos could convince DJ Foster to come back, which was a door that Dinwiddie seemed to leave open a few months back.

Frankly I think every quarterback in the league is playing better than MBT this year. Not only Rourke and Collaros, but even people like Tre Ford and Trevor Harris have put together more impressive games. Farjardo is definitely more impressive than MBT and although Bo Levi Mitchell is not playing at the level he once was, he's still more consistent. Basically I would take pretty much any other quarterback right now than MBT. I think with the combination of injuries (Harris, Phillips etc) and MBT at the helm the Argos will definitely lose the number one spot over the next few weeks and I don't think they'll even make the playoffs. Frankly both Montreal and Hamilton are looking more impressive than the Argos these days!

[gilthethrill]

Frankly I think every quarterback in the league is playing better than MBT this year. Not only Rourke and Collaros, but even people like Tre Ford and Trevor Harris have put together more impressive games. Farjardo is definitely more impressive than MBT and although Bo Levi Mitchell is not playing at the level he once was, he's still more consistent. Basically I would take pretty much any other quarterback right now than MBT. I think with the combination of injuries (Harris, Phillips etc) and MBT at the helm the Argos will definitely lose the number one spot over the next few weeks and I don't think they'll even make the playoffs. Frankly both Montreal and Hamilton are looking more impressive than the Argos these days!

Tre Ford started 1 game and put up expected stats for a rookie before getting hurt. Trevor Harris has had better games than MBT? He (Harris) constantly is given good field position but manages to come away with nothing. He is horrible. Montreal would get better value had they retained Shiltz. Argos lose a game on the road no less and all of a sudden teams below them in the standings look impressive. SMH.

[OV Argo]

Tre Ford started 1 game and put up expected stats for a rookie before getting hurt. Trevor Harris has had better games than MBT? He (Harris) constantly is given good field position but manages to come away with nothing. He is horrible. Montreal would get better value had they retained Shiltz. Argos lose a game on the road no less and all of a sudden teams below them in the standings look impressive. SMH.


Didn't Harris QB the Als to a victory over the un-beaten Bummers just last game?

The Harris bashing is amusing; and sorry, I'd probably take him over MBT, who continues to be good at times but poor at others. Neither is league best range now; both are "veterans"; just rather have a guy at QB who has put up outstanding to awesome QB stats/performance in CFL play-off games.

[gilthethrill]

Didn't Harris QB the Als to a victory over the un-beaten Bummers just last game?

The Harris bashing is amusing; and sorry, I'd probably take him over MBT, who continues to be good at times but poor at others. Neither is league best range now; both are "veterans"; just rather have a guy at QB who has put up outstanding to awesome QB stats/performance in CFL play-off games.

Yes, Harris and his 213 yards passing did help Montreal squeak past Winnipeg with the help of a kicker who had an off night.

[kellynjk]

Montreal looked a lot more impressive against Winnipeg than the Argos looked against Hamilton. It's not a case of just losing one game away, it's the fact that they have managed to just squeak away wins and usually with the help of the Defence pulling off some heroics. I do think in recent games that both Montreal and Hamilton looked better. Montreal was very effective in making Collaros look human and they were competitive the entire game. And Hamilton against Toronto last week, well we all know how that turned out. So yes I think right now both teams are playing better than the Argos are.

[paulwoods13]

Didn't Harris QB the Als to a victory over the un-beaten Bummers just last game?

The Harris bashing is amusing; and sorry, I'd probably take him over MBT, who continues to be good at times but poor at others. Neither is league best range now; both are "veterans"; just rather have a guy at QB who has put up outstanding to awesome QB stats/performance in CFL play-off games.

You lost me at "probably."

[Argo57]

Harris officially out for the season.
Dinwiddie will be forced to change some things up on offence, hopefully that also includes not continuously trying to force feed the ball to Banks.

https://3downnation.com/2022/08/17/toronto-argonauts-rule-running-back-andrew-harris-out-for-season/

[paulwoods13]

Harris officially out for the season.
Dinwiddie will be forced to change some things up on offence, hopefully that also includes not continuously trying to force feed the ball to Banks.

https://3downnation.com/2022/08/17/toronto-argonauts-rule-running-back-andrew-harris-out-for-season/

I agree Banks has been targeted more than he should have been, and as I have said before, I believe a huge part of that problem is he is not running correct or precise pass patterns. But there is another "forcing" issue as well -- I would bet we have run the ball on first down more than any team in the league, despite having an o-line that has struggled with run blocking in six of the eight games. Defences have been stacking the box to take away the run, and we are playing right into their hands. I hope the loss of Harris means more passing, including on first down. Force defences to cover more -- that would open up more run opportunities.

[Argo57]

I agree Banks has been targeted more than he should have been, and as I have said before, I believe a huge part of that problem is he is not running correct or precise pass patterns. But there is another "forcing" issue as well -- I would bet we have run the ball on first down more than any team in the league, despite having an o-line that has struggled with run blocking in six of the eight games. Defences have been stacking the box to take away the run, and we are playing right into their hands. I hope the loss of Harris means more passing, including on first down. Force defences to cover more -- that would open up more run opportunities.

100% agree, this is the main adjustment Dinwiddie should make.
Hopefully he also adjusts his red zone play calling, Argos have been less than stellar finishing drives.

[AngeloV]

I agree Banks has been targeted more than he should have been, and as I have said before, I believe a huge part of that problem is he is not running correct or precise pass patterns. But there is another "forcing" issue as well -- I would bet we have run the ball on first down more than any team in the league, despite having an o-line that has struggled with run blocking in six of the eight games. Defences have been stacking the box to take away the run, and we are playing right into their hands. I hope the loss of Harris means more passing, including on first down. Force defences to cover more -- that would open up more run opportunities.

Yes, I think Dinwiddie has been running an offence to suit the acquisition of Harris rather than what he really prefers to do. Hopefully we see more RPO now.

[OV Argo]

OK; maybe.

But teams that have loaded up on more pass vs. run calls (% compared to their opponents) have LOST the huge majority of games this CFL season. Can be explained/excuse away no doubt. ;o)

[Rich]

Yes, I think Dinwiddie has been running an offence to suit the acquisition of Harris rather than what he really prefers to do.

Are you suggesting Angelo that they signed Harris against Dinwiddie’s wishes? I think he would have been pretty enthusiastic about it. Who wouldn’t want the league’s best back in his lineup? And who wouldn’t want to really work him once you had him?

It’s not like we’re overdoing it, we currently have the third-fewest rushing attempts in the league. Sure there’s been mixed success but you’ve got to keep at it. The problem with the numbers is that we haven’t had any 30+ yd runs from scrimmage that I think every other team has had by now. They really pad the rushing stats. Have we even had a 20-yd RFS?

[AngeloV]

Are you suggesting Angelo that they signed Harris against Dinwiddie’s wishes? I think he would have been pretty enthusiastic about it. Who wouldn’t want the league’s best back in his lineup? And who wouldn’t want to really work him once you had him?

It’s not like we’re overdoing it, we currently have the third-fewest rushing attempts in the league. Sure there’s been mixed success but you’ve got to keep at it. The problem with the numbers is that we haven’t had any 30+ yd runs from scrimmage that I think every other team has had by now. They really pad the rushing stats. Have we even had a 20-yd RFS?

Not saying that at all. Sometimes signing a high profile player results in overusing that player. No different than Banks.

[paulwoods13]

It’s not like we’re overdoing it, we currently have the third-fewest rushing attempts in the league.

Totals can mislead since some teams have played eight games, some have played nine and one has played 10. In attempts per game, we are precisely in the middle, with four teams above and four teams below. My point was not that we run excessively, but that we run excessively on first down. Unfortunately there do not appear to be any published statistics on this, so it's just my perception at this point.

[AngeloV]

Totals can mislead since some teams have played eight games, some have played nine and one has played 10. In attempts per game, we are precisely in the middle, with four teams above and four teams below. My point was not that we run excessively, but that we run excessively on first down. Unfortunately there do not appear to be any published statistics on this, so it's just my perception at this point.

Exactly Paul. I can almost guarantee that the Argos have the highest average of yards needed on 2nd down. It’s because we try to run on first down so much with an o-line that gets no push.

[ArgoRavi]

Exactly Paul. I can almost guarantee that the Argos have the highest average of yards needed on 2nd down. It’s because we try to run on first down so much with an o-line that gets no push.

That's my perception also.

Signing and leaning on a 35 year-old running back with a fair bit of wear and tear on him was always going to be a risk for the Argos - a high risk/high reward signing that they thought was worth making but it's now time to move on to Plan B.

I also agree with numerous others concerning Banks, whom I never saw as an everydown player when they signed him. I thought, at most, that he should be a spot player on offence and perhaps he should return kicks. He is clearly on the downward trajectory of his career.

[paulwoods13]

I also agree with numerous others concerning Banks, whom I never saw as an everydown player when they signed him. I thought, at most, that he should be a spot player on offence and perhaps he should return kicks. He is clearly on the downward trajectory of his career.

On the evidence to date, that definitely seems to be the case. My sense is that, in addition to not running good pass patterns a lot of the time, he no longer has the speed he once did -- or at the very least, he no longer has confidence in his speed. There have been a few punt returns where the old Speedy would have raced to the outside and turned the corner. Instead he hesitates and gets tackled. It sure would be nice if we hadn't cut Chandler Worthy -- not only could he be our primary returner, he might have come in handy now that we have run into so many injuries at receiver.

[Shatto]

Banks major assets were his speed and quickness. Without those assets he is not close to being the player he was. Putting him in the slot might help but that does not make him any faster. At best Banks should be a rotational player on offense, preferably a spot player, playing in certain situations and in certain schemes. There was a reason why Hamilton did not make any real efforts to sign him, I suspect they were aware that he has lost a step or two. Signing him was certainly worth the gamble but it is time to accept the gamble has not paid off.

[jerrym]

It sure would be nice if we hadn't cut Chandler Worthy -- not only could he be our primary returner, he might have come in handy now that we have run into so many injuries at receiver.

And there were people here who were never keen on Worthy, to put it mildly, which I never understood.

[AngeloV]

On the positive front, Dinwiddie said that Brescacin will be a go this week in his post practice media session. I'm hoping they move him into Rogers spot and put Daniels back at boundary wideout.

[argolio]

I agree Banks has been targeted more than he should have been, and as I have said before, I believe a huge part of that problem is he is not running correct or precise pass patterns.That was never his strong suit. At his best Banks was more of a freelancer. Now that his skills have eroded and teams don't fear him nearly as much, his deficiency in running disciplined pass routes is exposed.


Digging deeper into teams stats, it's interesting that the top five teams in pass efficiency (BC, WPG, TOR, CGY, SSK) are a combined 30-13, while the bottom four teams are 9-26. The Argos are the only one of those five teams with a negative (-6) turnover ratio. We'd probably have at least a couple more wins if that number was +6. SSK, CGY and WPG are all +10 or better.

[ArgoRavi]

Exactly Paul. I can almost guarantee that the Argos have the highest average of yards needed on 2nd down. It’s because we try to run on first down so much with an o-line that gets no push.

Ben Grant from the X's and Argos podcast took a much deeper look at all of the plays that the Argos have run this season and found exactly this. He also looked at MBT's stats which show very clearly that he has been the third best QB in the league this season; any offensive woes the Argos have had has much more to do with the struggles running the football than anything else.

[Argo57]

Ben Grant from the X's and Argos podcast took a much deeper look at all of the plays that the Argos have run this season and found exactly this. He also looked at MBT's stats which show very clearly that he has been the third best QB in the league this season; any offensive woes the Argos have had has much more to do with the struggles running the football than anything else.

Now you’ve done it Ravi!!

[Mocha]

Ben Grant from the X's and Argos podcast took a much deeper look at all of the plays that the Argos have run this season and found exactly this. He also looked at MBT's stats which show very clearly that he has been the third best QB in the league this season; any offensive woes the Argos have had has much more to do with the struggles running the football than anything else.

Here are some interesting numbers from the league stats, which mostly support what you're saying: https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2050/11/2022_CFL_League_Statistics_Wk10.pdf

Toronto sits last in rushing yards, last in yards per carry, last in rushing TDs.

But we're second in passing yards and upper-middle of the pack in other passing categories.

We're second lowest in INTs surrendered but second most in fumbles lost.

We're last in time of possession but have the second fewest 2&outs.

We're middle of the pack in first downs and first downs from passing.

But we're dead last in first downs from rushing and second last in average yards gained on first down.

Our second down conversion rate, though, is second best.

[paulwoods13]

This is not a transaction, per se, but for those who haven't checked, Sage Doxtater suffered a season-ending injury in Saints camp. He was waived and is now on the Saints' injured list, unable to play this year unless he reaches a settlement with New Orleans. Presumably his injury is serious enough that even if he did reach such a settlement, he will not play anywhere in 2022.

Luiji Vilain had what the Athletic termed an impressive fumble recovery last night for the Vikings, and made a few other plays. He's in contention to serve as a backup edge rusher in Minnesota.

There are conflicting guesses online about whether Ryan Hunter will make the Chargers as a backup guard. Some see him as likely to be cut while others like his chances. The Chargers have a strong o-line. Given that he has been kicking around the NFL for three years, I imagine even if he is cut he will be unlikely to sign with Toronto.

So the cavalry ain't coming any time soon.

EDIT: Vilain received $227,000 in guaranteed money from Minnesota, more than a couple of their draft picks, so I assume he won't be going anywhere this year.

[OV Argo]

This is not a transaction, per se, but for those who haven't checked, Sage Doxtater suffered a season-ending injury in Saints camp. He was waived and is now on the Saints' injured list, unable to play this year unless he reaches a settlement with New Orleans. Presumably his injury is serious enough that even if he did reach such a settlement, he will not play anywhere in 2022.

Luiji Vilain had what the Athletic termed an impressive fumble recovery last night for the Vikings, and made a few other plays. He's in contention to serve as a backup edge rusher in Minnesota.

There are conflicting guesses online about whether Ryan Hunter will make the Chargers as a backup guard. Some see him as likely to be cut while others like his chances. The Chargers have a strong o-line. Given that he has been kicking around the NFL for three years, I imagine even if he is cut he will be unlikely to sign with Toronto.

So the cavalry ain't coming any time soon.

EDIT: Vilain received $227,000 in guaranteed money from Minnesota, more than a couple of their draft picks, so I assume he won't be going anywhere this year.

Thanks for the updates Paul.

Be nice to see any of these guys report to the Argos, but likely doubtful. Hunter could possibly help upgrade a weak O-line, but that is no certainty - he's barely played in years now, and when he got in for the Chiefs a bit, he apparently bombed bad.

I believe Vilain might be the best talent there, but if he sticks with the Vikings, he might have a lengthy NFL career, and even if cut eventually, might be one of those Canadian guys who got an NFL taste, but has no interest in the CFL later. Be interesting though, to see the Argo run a 4 man D-line of Acheampong & Knight at DT with Smith & Vilain at DE. The clowns on some CFL forums who go on about lack of Canadian talent and "ratio problems" for the CFL have no F-ing idea of what they are talking about, IMO.

And BTW - looking ahead to next year's CFL draft class (Abbott on 3 Down did a nice preview), there seems like a real deep & talented O-Line crop up (several Div I starters plus some U Sport all-stars) - so the Argos could go back to the drawing board there to add to current young talent like Nicastro, MacKellar.

[CrazyCanuck89]

Thanks for the updates Paul.

Be nice to see any of these guys report to the Argos, but likely doubtful. Hunter could possibly help upgrade a weak O-line, but that is no certainty - he's barely played in years now, and when he got in for the Chiefs a bit, he apparently bombed bad.

I believe Vilain might be the best talent there, but if he sticks with the Vikings, he might have a lengthy NFL career, and even if cut eventually, might be one of those Canadian guys who got an NFL taste, but has no interest in the CFL later. Be interesting though, to see the Argo run a 4 man D-line of Acheampong & Knight at DT with Smith & Vilain at DE. The clowns on some CFL forums who go on about lack of Canadian talent and "ratio problems" for the CFL have no F-ing idea of what they are talking about, IMO.

And BTW - looking ahead to next year's CFL draft class (Abbott on 3 Down did a nice preview), there seems like a real deep & talented O-Line crop up (several Div I starters plus some U Sport all-stars) - so the Argos could go back to the drawing board there to add to current young talent like Nicastro, MacKellar.

Marion was also a good pick by you guys.

[OV Argo]

Marion was also a good pick by you guys.


Marion was drafted by the Als and cut; who have little use for Canadian D-Linemen it seems - Menard fled; they traded Lawson; Gowanlock on the roster but hardly plays on D.

[AngeloV]

I am at Argos practice as I type this. JaGared Davis is in street clothes with a brace on his knee and a very noticeable limp. Eli Mencer with arm in a sling. Penny-Larya is practicing. Nothing else on the injury front catching my eye. Sadly Banks is still here.

[argolio]

Sadly Banks is still here.Was he arguing with/yelling at any teammates or does he only do that during games?

[Argo57]

Was he arguing with/yelling at any teammates or does he only do that during games?

I think he saves his poopy face for games, that way more people see that he is not happy.

[OV Argo]

Ryan Hunter cut by the Chargers

[Will]

Ryan Hunter cut by the Chargers

About time we get him in a double blue uniform wouldn't you say?

[OV Argo]

About time we get him in a double blue uniform wouldn't you say?

Be nice to see what he could bring. Not that I'm overly optimistic - the list of Canadian NCAA O-Lineman the Argos have tried has not produced many real good ones - going back a number of years.

[paulwoods13]

I'll believe Hunter is coming when he signs a contract. Three or four years in the NFL cannot have made him eager for a low-six-figure contract to play in Canada.

[gilthethrill]

I'll believe Hunter is coming when he signs a contract. Three or four years in the NFL cannot have made him eager for a low-six-figure contract to play in Canada.

More like 3 or 4 years of not playing in the NFL. Hopefully Hunter might actually miss playing football and come up here and have a solid career. But like OV said, I think Hunter has to prove himself if he comes north.

[paulwoods13]

Hunter spent three full seasons on practice rosters, and was on an active roster for some games in the Chiefs' Super Bowl season. He hasn't been on the field much, but according to this site (https://overthecap.com/player/ryan-hunter/7303), he has been paid $660,000 US to date (about $865,000 Cdn at today's exchange rate). Would he be so eager to play that he would accept approximately one-eight that much per season? I'm dubious.

[gilthethrill]

Hunter spent three full seasons on practice rosters, and was on an active roster for some games in the Chiefs' Super Bowl season. He hasn't been on the field much, but according to this site (https://overthecap.com/player/ryan-hunter/7303), he has been paid $660,000 US to date (about $865,000 Cdn at today's exchange rate). Would he be so eager to play that he would accept approximately one-eight that much per season? I'm dubious.

My hope is he actually loves football and wants to get on the field again. The CFL would be his best option I would think.

[OV Argo]

Hunter spent three full seasons on practice rosters, and was on an active roster for some games in the Chiefs' Super Bowl season. He hasn't been on the field much, but according to this site (https://overthecap.com/player/ryan-hunter/7303), he has been paid $660,000 US to date (about $865,000 Cdn at today's exchange rate). Would he be so eager to play that he would accept approximately one-eight that much per season? I'm dubious.


DT Stefan Charles was in the NFL a number of years (and actually played) and came home to play in the CFL a couple of seasons (played a bit for Ottawa last year); same deal for ex- Western Mustang DT Vaughn Martin.

[AngeloV]

My hope is he actually loves football and wants to get on the field again. The CFL would be his best option I would think.

If his practice roster options are done, than coming to the CFL might be his best path to get back into the NFL.

[gilthethrill]

If his practice roster options are done, than coming to the CFL might be his best path to get back into the NFL.

Yes. I am not sure how the PR options are done in the NFL…3 seasons?

[AngeloV]

Yes. I am not sure how the PR options are done in the NFL…3 seasons?

I'm not sure if there is a limit or not, but after so many times on the PR, teams prefer to go with guys that see future development opportunities.

[ArgoRavi]

I'm not sure if there is a limit or not, but after so many times on the PR, teams prefer to go with guys that see future development opportunities.

I believe that there is a limit of 3 seasons on the PR in the NFL. Hunter's NFL career is likely over so if he wants to have a fruitful professional football career, Toronto is his best bet.

[gilthethrill]

I believe that there is a limit of 3 seasons on the PR in the NFL. Hunter's NFL career is likely over so if he wants to have a fruitful professional football career, Toronto is his best bet.

Its odd that 3 Down Nation has written about any Ex CFL player that has been an NFL TC casualty I can’t find a word about Hunter.

[paulwoods13]

I believe that there is a limit of 3 seasons on the PR in the NFL. Hunter's NFL career is likely over so if he wants to have a fruitful professional football career, Toronto is his best bet.

The rules have changed. According to this site (https://www.milehighreport.com/2022/8/31/23330743/nfl-practice-squad-rules-2022):

A team’s practice squad can have:

* Any number of players who have not accrued at least nine games in an NFL season.
* Up to four players who have accrued no more than two NFL seasons.
* Up to six players with no limitations on experience.

So Hunter could be on a PR indefinitely.

[ArgoRavi]

The rules have changed. According to this site (https://www.milehighreport.com/2022/8/31/23330743/nfl-practice-squad-rules-2022):

A team’s practice squad can have:

* Any number of players who have not accrued at least nine games in an NFL season.
* Up to four players who have accrued no more than two NFL seasons.
* Up to six players with no limitations on experience.

So Hunter could be on a PR indefinitely.

Thanks for this, Paul. Unlikely that any NFL team will put him on a PR after three or four years of having been already on one though.

[Scooter McCray]

DT Stefan Charles was in the NFL a number of years (and actually played) and came home to play in the CFL a couple of seasons (played a bit for Ottawa last year); same deal for ex- Western Mustang DT Vaughn Martin.Stefan Charles was a major disappointment in the CFL. I honestly don't know how he played games in the NFL. His CFL interviews during the CFL combine were terrible as well.

[Scooter McCray]

Hunter spent three full seasons on practice rosters, and was on an active roster for some games in the Chiefs' Super Bowl season. He hasn't been on the field much, but according to this site (https://overthecap.com/player/ryan-hunter/7303), he has been paid $660,000 US to date (about $865,000 Cdn at today's exchange rate). Would he be so eager to play that he would accept approximately one-eight that much per season? I'm dubious.Good money, but not life changing. Hopefully he still wants to live out his childhood dream of playing pro football.

[OV Argo]

Stefan Charles was a major disappointment in the CFL. I honestly don't know how he played games in the NFL. His CFL interviews during the CFL combine were terrible as well.

Charles and Vaughn Martin both did little in the CFL - maybe more big DTs for NFL/American ball style? - not as valuable in the CFL.

[gilthethrill]

Good money, but not life changing. Hopefully he still wants to live out his childhood dream of playing pro football.

2 weeks after being released no mention at all by 3 Down Nation amongst other reliable CFL news sources regarding Hunter. I find this strange.

[AngeloV]

2 weeks after being released no mention at all by 3 Down Nation amongst other reliable CFL news sources regarding Hunter. I find this strange.

He just might have no interest in playing in Canada. Likely hanging around to see if another PR spot comes up.

[paulwoods13]

https://3downnation.com/2022/09/08/25-canadian-players-to-know-on-nfl-rosters-this-season/

The following Canadian players are currently on NFL practice rosters.

DL Christian Covington, Los Angeles Chargers
OL Drew Desjarlais, New Orleans Saints
TE Nikola Kalinic, Indianapolis Colts
DL Jonathan Kongbo, Denver Broncos
LB Jesse Luketa, Arizona Cardinals
OL Dakoda Shepley, Dallas Cowboys

The following Canadian players were in NFL training camps but are currently free agents.

DL Eli Ankou (injured)
TE Antony Auclair (injured)
OL Sage Doxtater (injured)
K Lirim Hajrullahu
OL Ryan Hunter
TE Rysen John
P Jake Julien

[OV Argo]

He just might have no interest in playing in Canada. Likely hanging around to see if another PR spot comes up.

There's a long list of former CFL draft picks who had some NFL roster experience or brief cups of coffee there even, but never showed up in the CFL after. Is what it is - and worse now likely with young Canadians assigned to CFL minimum wage to start = what a crock of B$ IMO