Game Thread - Toronto Argonauts vs Blue Bombers - July 4, 2022

[ArgoGabe22]

Is the game on the Monday (4th of July) because ESPN wanted a game on a major holiday? Other than that, I can't really think of a reason why this fell on a Monday. I guess, TFC game gets in the way and takes time for the field to be ready?

[Will]

Other than TFC playing, I have no clue why this game is being played on a Monday night. I thought we were over that shit.

[AngeloV]

Other than TFC playing, I have no clue why this game is being played on a Monday night. I thought we were over that shit.

TFC schedule is the reason. Argos would have had to play this past Wednesday or as scheduled this Monday according to the guidelines to keep the pitch pristine. (I almost threw up as I typed that)

[ArgoRavi]

TFC schedule is the reason. Argos would have had to play this past Wednesday or as scheduled this Monday according to the guidelines to keep the pitch pristine. (I almost threw up as I typed that)

What do you think about TFC's "kits" this season? I find it so funny how the MLS tries to be like English soccer in the vernacular that they use; by contrast, the NASL was unapologetically North American.

Anyway, it should be an exciting game on Monday night.

[Will]

Here is the Argos depth chart:

https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1543610609421402114/photo/1

* Still no Isiah Cage* Brandon Banks is still out of position* Simmons will NOT dress* Javon Leake out after hurting leg in practice

[AngeloV]

Here is the Argos depth chart:

https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1543610609421402114/photo/1

* Still no Isiah Cage* Brandon Banks is still out of position* Simmons will NOT dress* Javon Leake out after hurting leg in practice

No returners listed on this depth chart, but with Leake out, and from what I saw Friday at practice, guessing Isiah Wright will be the primary punt returner, and be joined by Brissett on kickoff return.

[paulwoods13]

No returners listed on this depth chart, but with Leake out, and from what I saw Friday at practice, guessing Isiah Wright will be the primary punt returner, and be joined by Brissett on kickoff return.

Yay.

[OV Argo]

I wished the Argos had snapped up EE cut Shai Ross - as a punt returner - the Lions quickly signed him and he has been very good returning punts for them since - good at fielding the ball in the air, and makes yards with moves.

[Blue90]

I really hope that Chad Kelly is the starting QB tonight.

[ArgoRavi]

I really hope that Chad Kelly is the starting QB tonight.

I can guarantee that he won't be.

[Scooter McCray]

What do you think about TFC's "kits" this season? I find it so funny how the MLS tries to be like English soccer in the vernacular that they use; by contrast, the NASL was unapologetically North American.

Anyway, it should be an exciting game on Monday night.

Can't wait for MBT to casually say to Willie Jefferson and Jackson Jeffcoat while on the field tonight..."Hey lads, what do you think of our home kit were wearing tonight. And the pristine condition of our pitch. Is it to your liking as Grey Cup Champions?

They will either send him out of the game in an ambulance, or actually have so much pity and empathy that he has to play here, they can't muster the killer instinct to sack his backside into the ground.

[AngeloV]

Can't wait for MBT to casually say to Willie Jefferson and Jackson Jeffcoat while on the field tonight..."Hey lads, what do you think of our home kit were wearing tonight. And the pristine condition of our pitch. Is it to your liking as Grey Cup Champions?

They will either send him out of the game in an ambulance, or actually have so much pity and empathy that he has to play here, they can't muster the killer instinct to sack his backside into the ground.

A victory will also put them higher up on the table.

[Scooter McCray]

A victory will also put them higher up on the table. Is that another soccer reference? It's all bells and whistles to me. Pitch I knew. Kit was a World War I & II word for me, did not realize until today it was soccer vernacular. It's fun to learn.

[Scooter McCray]

Is that another soccer reference? It's all bells and whistles to me. Pitch I knew. Kit was a World War I & II word for me, did not realize until today it was soccer vernacular. It's fun to learn.Thanks Mate!

[Scooter McCray]

Now for actual gameday talk. Calling for an Argo victory at home just like last year against Winterpeg. MBT plays sound football, and let's Andrew Harris inflict most of the damage on his former team. Harris will be a one man wrecking crew. 100 yards rushing, with another 50 in pass reception yardage. Chews the clock and keeps Winnipeg's pedestrian offence at bay. Argos win a fairly close contest 25-20.

[OV Argo]

Argos D needs to shut-down/ take away Ellingson - Bombers best receiver by far, and they have a very good chance to win IMO; that plus show balance on offence - lots of ground game with Harris, plus give Adeboboye some work too. Hope the O-Line holds up against the Bummers' pass rush if they defer to mostly pass.

[jerrym]

MBT intercepted early leading to a TD. This is not a team you can wait a half a game to respond to.

[jerrym]

MBT almost throws a second interception to Bighill five minutes into the game. Things need to change and quickly.

[dmont]

Boy, I sure missed the 2019 season... nice to see it again...

[jerrym]

This may qualify as MBT's worst start ever with a second interception and almost a third in the first seven minutes. A horrendous throw on the backpedal by MBT. He should have thrown it out of bounds or eaten it.

[jerrym]

Former Argo QB Collaros shows MBT how to lead a team down the field to a TD.

[jerrym]

Two exchange problem balls in a row. This is getting very ugly very quickly.

[dmont]

Can't blame the argos for that one. Horrible spot of the ball. On TV, it clearly was a first down.

[jerrym]

Bomber FG. 17-0. No sign of an Argo offence. This is not getting ugly. This is ugly.

[jerrym]

A pass to Banks and three consecutive strong typical runs by Harris followed by short two yarder with the Bombers waiting for him for a first down. Hopefully the Argos have woken up before things get very difficult to come back from.

[jerrym]

This is a good test for the Argos - how they respond to the adversity of being down 17-0 and failing to get the first down.

[Stevoman]

After a very amateur looking first quarter, the Argos offence played much better in the second.

[dmont]

With the exception of our first three god-awful possessions, it hasn't been a bad game.

Winnipeg doesn't look unbeatable, they just never make mistakes. And they capitalize on your own.

[ArgoGabe22]

I hate to be that guy, but Dinwiddie needs to be on the hot seat and being loyal to MBT won’t save him his job. I don’t think Kelly is ready as one can be but grow a pair and bench MBT at halftime. I want to see what Kelly can do in a full half and it can’t get any worse than MBT.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Turn off the sound and replace it with the Benny Hill theme on loop.

[kellynjk]

Oh for goodness sake bench Bethel-Thompson in the second half and put in Kelly. I'm a long time Argos fan, but it's pathetic they way they stick with MBT is so frustrating! Our first string quarterback doesn't nothing but throw interceptions and seems incapable of getting the team into the end zone! UGH!!

Also have decided that Dinwiddie is a useless coach - Argos need to make some changes or this will be a dismal season!!

[jerrym]

Argos do bounce back led by Harris gaining 59 yards on the ground and a 13 yard catch and MBT going 9/9 after starting 1/5 with two interceptions. I think the Bombers made a mistake going for the TD at the end of the half and giving the Argos a boost on the interception rather than taking a FG to respond to the Argo FG.

[ArgoGabe22]

Only MBT throws a TD while throwing an INT

[dmont]

Omg we caught a break. I almost forgot what that's like.

It's a one-possession ballgame!

[kellynjk]

That's just the second touchdown of the season for the Argos, which is pretty bad. I'm surprised that they said that was a touchdown - to me it looked like Houston (not Banks) still had the ball as they were hitting the ground.

[dmont]

3rd and inches. Hallelujah!

[dmont]

No¡!!!!!!!!!!!!! BANKS butterfingers strikes again.

[jerrym]

I think Houston was down by contact on the TD but the review ruling went the Argo's way because the ref called it a TD. However, I'll take it either way.

[ArgoGabe22]

I think we need to put Daniels on a milk carton. MISSING

[dmont]

I agree with Ben Grant: Houston needed to survive contact with the ground for there to be an interception. He did not. Ball doesn't hit the ground, so it cannot be incomplete. TD is the only call.

[jerrym]

Gittens is turning into Argos best receiver.

[jerrym]

A fluke interception ends the Argo drive. Now comes the adversity test again. How will they respond?

[kellynjk]

I miss the days when the Argos had great quarterbacks and a good offence. Now the Argos are fighting with themselves on the sidelines - it's depressing to be an Argos fan these days!

[jerrym]

What the hell is going on on the Argo sidelines with players arguing amongst themselves? This is no way to win a football game.

[jerrym]

I miss the days when the Argos had great quarterbacks and a good offence. Now the Argos are fighting with themselves on the sidelines - it's depressing to be an Argos fan these days!

Welcome to the good ship Argos that appears to be leaking a fair bit today:hi:

[jerrym]

Glad to see the ever smiling Pinball on the sidelines with the sternest look I've ever seen from him end the BS on the Argos sideline.

[ArgoGabe22]

Glad to see the ever smiling Pinball on the sidelines with the sternest look I've ever seen from him end the BS on the Argos sideline.

Shouldn’t take the GM to stop. That’s what coaches and teammates are for.

[jerrym]

Harris's chip on his shoulder about how he was treated in Winnipeg is huge and it is showing in his bust-out runs in this game.

[Stevoman]

The Argos D has been amazing tonight. It's been a Jeckyl and Hyde performance by the Offence but maybe just maybe they can pull it out if the D can get another stop.

[jerrym]

Shouldn’t take the GM to stop. That’s what coaches and teammates are for.

I agree but nothing was being done to stop it so I'm glad to see him step in. It also says something about the coaches' (plural) control of the Argo players.

[kellynjk]

It's clear that there are problems with the whole team and how it's run, starting with Dinwiddie (and the fact that MBT has the job no matter how poorly he plays basically every game this season - same thing was true last season as well). Unless they make changes, I don't see the Argos as contenders this season.

[kellynjk]

OMG I can't believe that they missed the point after!!!! What a bizarre game!

[jerrym]

Good comeback by the Argos but when you don't play 60 minutes of good football, the odds are you won't beat the top teams.

[OV Argo]

Mistakes waste a very good ground game by the Argos O / Harris.

Inexcusable to miss converts in the CFL IMO.

[kellynjk]

14 of Winnipeg's points were the result of MBT interceptions - I don't know why Argo / MLSE management isn't insisting the Dinwiddie gave Kelly the chance to play some games and gain more experience as their quarterback. At the very least they should alternate between both quarterbacks in the games because MBT isn't able to play well for an entire game - maybe one quarter, but not for four quarters!!!!

[dmont]

Ah, man, that's a shame... hard to lose that way but good for the boys to get it that close.

A loss is a loss, but lots to like here.

Macbeth has a bad start. He's really only to blame for the second interception (very bad decision on a broken play). First int was a combination heads-up play by the dB and banks not fighting back to the ball. The rest of the game, he was very very good. This guy can't do anything easy. Likes being down 2 touchdowns and coming back in the 4th. Anyways, he was an excellent quarterback for three quarters.

Defensive game plan was really good. I didn't think Collaros really got going. DBs heading into the backfield to make some great tackles for loss. I liked Priester and Amos.

D line couldn't quite get to collaros... but it's frigging collaros... he's slippery.

On offense, Harris played out of his mind. Love it. Receivers Ambles and gittens were very good. I love Ambles in space.

Brandon Banks... he giveth and he taketh away. Love the TD and the big catch on the last drive, but some key drops and not fighting to the ball. Hands can be weak at times.

Loss hurts, but hey, after a disastrous start, they took the defending Champs all the way to the wire. There's something to build off of here.

[kellynjk]

Dmont - sorry but I don't think MBT was very, very good in this game. Fact is I don't think he is a very, very good quarterback. Do agree that Harris was great and also some of the receivers played really well. I just am tired of MBT inconsistency, the point you make that he makes everything difficult, complicated - sloppy (how many snaps did he miss). Just wish the Argos had a better quarterback and would like to see Kelly get a chance to show what he's got (for more than a couple of plays in one game).

[Blue90]

Dmont - sorry but I don't think MBT was very, very good in this game. Fact is I don't think he is a very, very good quarterback. Do agree that Harris was great and also some of the receivers played really well. I just am tired of MBT inconsistency, the point you make that he makes everything difficult, complicated - sloppy (how many snaps did he miss). Just wish the Argos had a better quarterback and would like to see Kelly get a chance to show what he's got (for more than a couple of plays in one game).

Agree. If Argos had a CFL calibre QB they would have won today. Send MBT on the next bus back to the States. He's not a professional football QB.

[dmont]

Dmont - sorry but I don't think MBT was very, very good in this game. Fact is I don't think he is a very, very good quarterback. Do agree that Harris was great and also some of the receivers played really well. I just am tired of MBT inconsistency, the point you make that he makes everything difficult, complicated - sloppy (how many snaps did he miss). Just wish the Argos had a better quarterback and would like to see Kelly get a chance to show what he's got (for more than a couple of plays in one game).

Agree to disagree on Macbeth, but if you want to end Kelly's CFL career before it even starts, put him in as starter after only a few months in the league.

Real Kelly supporters are praying that Macbeth continues to do a serviceable job so that Kelly can hold the clipboard for a year, and then actually be prepared when he gets his shot.

[kellynjk]

Agree to disagree on Macbeth, but if you want to end Kelly's CFL career before it even starts, put him in as starter after only a few months in the league.

Real Kelly supporters are praying that Macbeth continues to do a serviceable job so that Kelly can hold the clipboard for a year, and then actually be prepared when he gets his shot.

Well MBT won't get the job done, that's for sure - so if the Argos stick with him the whole season, it will likely be a pretty pathetic season for the Argos. I see no harm in at least giving Kelly some exposure and real game experience, sitting on the sideline with the clipboard and just practicing isn't going to help him hone his skills for the CFL. I'm just disappointed that Pinball didn't look at real quarterback alternatives in the off-season (there is plenty of talent in the CFL and there were some good available quarterbacks). How many seasons do the Argos intend to stick with MBT as the starting quarterback (what is now 4 seasons) when it's clear he's not a first string quarterback?!! At best he's a back-up QB not a starter!!

[dmont]

Well MBT won't get the job done, that's for sure - so if the Argos stick with him the whole season, it will likely be a pretty pathetic season for the Argos. I see no harm in at least giving Kelly some exposure and real game experience, sitting on the sideline with the clipboard and just practicing isn't going to help him hone his skills for the CFL. I'm just disappointed that Pinball didn't look at real quarterback alternatives in the off-season (there is plenty of talent in the CFL and there were some good available quarterbacks). How many seasons do the Argos intend to stick with MBT as the starting quarterback (what is now 4 seasons) when it's clear he's not a first string quarterback?!! At best he's a back-up QB not a starter!!

I think we're getting closer to agreement here. Given Macbeths age, I don't see him as a long-term solution at qb. I don't think the team does either. But that doesn't mean you cut him and roll the dice on someone who's unproven and/or not ready.

I would be very (pleasantly) surprised if Macbeth gets us a grey cup. Even if he doesn't, though, a couple years of playoff-worthy seasons while the team develops a future starter is not a bad way to wring something good out of him.

[Will]

Argos won many close games last year. They weren't/aren't going to get the same Argo bounces from last year. MBT just isn't a consistent QB over 60 minutes. He played quite well in the second half but a bad first half sunk them. I felt that Dinwiddie kind of took the gloves off the firing team in the second half but that still wasn't good enough.

[kellynjk]

I think we're getting closer to agreement here. Given Macbeths age, I don't see him as a long-term solution at qb. I don't think the team does either. But that doesn't mean you cut him and roll the dice on someone who's unproven and/or not ready.

I would be very (pleasantly) surprised if Macbeth gets us a grey cup. Even if he doesn't, though, a couple years of playoff-worthy seasons while the team develops a future starter is not a bad way to wring something good out of him.

Well I don't disagree with what you're saying - I think the Argos only signed Macbeth for 1 season, so they probably realize his limitations and his age etc. And if they are indeed trying to build and develop the team, I still wish they had invested more time and energy on quarterback (why not 3 QBs like some other teams). Or even sign one of the other experienced CFL quarterbacks there were available for this season. I think it would have given them more options and made for a more entertaining season for Argo fans (and let's face the attendance at Argos game is not great this year).

I think it's very unlikely that the Argos will even get to the Eastern finals this year.

[kellynjk]

Argos won many close games last year. They weren't/aren't going to get the same Argo bounces from last year. MBT just isn't a consistent QB over 60 minutes. He played quite well in the second half but a bad first half sunk them. I felt that Dinwiddie kind of took the gloves off the firing team in the second half but that still wasn't good enough.

See that's my point - MBT can't play 4 good quarters and when he's bad, he's really bad and ends up costing them points etc and then the Argos end up scrambling for the rest of the game just playing catch up. If Kelly is not ready or experienced enough now to play in the CFL, then Pinball should have signed a 3rd quarterback (as other teams have done) and then they have some real options. Very poor planning on the part of the Argos management.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree with Ben Grant: Houston needed to survive contact with the ground for there to be an interception. He did not. Ball doesn't hit the ground, so it cannot be incomplete. TD is the only call.

It was indeed the correct call.

[ArgoRavi]

Ah, man, that's a shame... hard to lose that way but good for the boys to get it that close.

A loss is a loss, but lots to like here.

Macbeth has a bad start. He's really only to blame for the second interception (very bad decision on a broken play). First int was a combination heads-up play by the dB and banks not fighting back to the ball. The rest of the game, he was very very good. This guy can't do anything easy. Likes being down 2 touchdowns and coming back in the 4th. Anyways, he was an excellent quarterback for three quarters.

Defensive game plan was really good. I didn't think Collaros really got going. DBs heading into the backfield to make some great tackles for loss. I liked Priester and Amos.

D line couldn't quite get to collaros... but it's frigging collaros... he's slippery.

On offense, Harris played out of his mind. Love it. Receivers Ambles and gittens were very good. I love Ambles in space.

Brandon Banks... he giveth and he taketh away. Love the TD and the big catch on the last drive, but some key drops and not fighting to the ball. Hands can be weak at times.

Loss hurts, but hey, after a disastrous start, they took the defending Champs all the way to the wire. There's something to build off of here.

I tend to agree with what has been said in the above.

After a tough start, MBT was outstanding tonight and deserved a much better fate.

Also, the much-maligned Trevon Tate played very well at left tackle tonight. I knew that he had it in him.

[ArgoFan1]

All the MBT haters on here. He had really only one bad play. Before the first interception, he had two long strikes that players did not manage to hold onto. That led to the first interception. The horrible snaps from centre were not his fault. The fluky interception near the goal line was not his fault either. When the game was on the line, he produced, big time. What more can you ask of him. He is for sure, a heck of a lot better than the back up we have.
I know he is not a superstar, but he hardly deserves the hate I see on here. So early in the game, all the comments about pulling him. Looks silly in hind sight.

[Argo57]

Once again plenty of things to clean up.
Too many turnovers and a general lack of consistency on offence.
MBT hasn’t looked very good early in games, he needs to be more consistent over 60 minutes.
I stated that Brandon Banks wouldn’t last the season in Toronto when he signed and I’ll stick by this assertion, should have kept Worthy!
Banks drops a well thrown ball from MBT so logically Dinwiddie immediately calls the same play which results in a pick six……idiotic!
I’m wondering if Dinwiddie and his coaching staff are starting to lose this team, the sideline bickering started last week in BC and carried over to this game which doesn’t bode well moving forward, starting to get the 2019 coaching staff vibe which isn’t good.
Defence played hard but not a big fan of the 3 man rush, gave Collaros too much time on several plays.

[kellynjk]

Once again plenty of things to clean up.
Too many turnovers and a general lack of consistency on offence.
MBT hasn’t looked very good early in games, he needs to be more consistent over 60 minutes.
I stated that Brandon Banks wouldn’t last the season in Toronto when he signed and I’ll stick by this assertion, should have kept Worthy!
Banks drops a well thrown ball from MBT so logically Dinwiddie immediately calls the same play which results in a pick six……idiotic!
I’m wondering if Dinwiddie and his coaching staff are starting to lose this team, the sideline bickering started last week in BC and carried over to this game which doesn’t bode well moving forward, starting to get the 2019 coaching staff vibe which isn’t good.
Defence played hard but not a big fan of the 3 man rush, gave Collaros too much time on several plays.

Totally agree with you about Dinwiddie and the coaching staff, losing control of the team. If they are fighting amongst themselves off the field, they are not going to be a strong, cohesive team on the field. It was kind of remarkable that it took Pinball Clemons to come down to the field to settle things down - wonder if there will be some meetings between GM and the Coaches and definitely need to do some team-building exercises or something to improve morale and attitude between the players, coaches etc.

[Randall]

Argos are always treated like a step-child. When I worked at Skydome....refuse to call it that name, you should have heard what they said. Rogers talks as if they're proud Canadians...they wanted no part of Double, it took Tannenbaum twisting "Fast Eddys arm and other incentives to get MLSE to actually buy them,
No advertising..why? Makes the Leafs look dumb. Have won 6x to the Leafs zip.

[Randall]

MBT should have been yanked for Kelly long before...and yes..once the fighting starts and the GM has to come down...signs of a sinking ship.

[Randall]

MBT has had a horrid last 3 games..4 if you add the East Final...he isn't the answer...Dinwiddle is a former QB. He's blind to the shiort comings..thus lost in space...walkjng a very fine line..

[paulwoods13]

I agree but nothing was being done to stop it so I'm glad to see him step in. It also says something about the coaches' (plural) control of the Argo players.

I assume you were watching on TV. At the game, it was evident that a lot was being done by teammates and assistant coaches to stop it. But the two main combatants (Tate and Banks) refused to sit down and shut up.

[paulwoods13]

No surprise to come on here and see a few folks who pin all the blame on the QB. Makes sense, I guess, seeing as how he snaps to himself, and drops passes he throws to himself, and gets in the way of his own snaps by going in badly timed motion.

[paulwoods13]

O-line played much better -- including Tate. Richards was in for a few plays after Allen got hurt. He held his own for the most part. Missed a block on a play when MBT got sacked, but it wasn't his man who made the sack. We are really missing Nicastro, judging by the number of bad snaps issued by Lawrence.

The defence was mostly very strong, except when we went to a three-man front on passing downs (with Sutton subbing in for a DT). On some of those formations, we got eaten alive by receivers who somehow got open against nine-man coverage. I have hated a three-man rush for years, and nothing I saw last night made me like it any better.

The special teams showed some signs of life. Wright ain't Worthy, sadly, but he had a couple of decent returns. Blocking (schemes and player determination) have to get better on returns.

MBT spread the ball around well and brought the team back from two big deficits. He overcame some bad drops by his receivers and some bad snaps. I loved the no-huddle look, and hope this becomes a regular part of the offensive approach -- at times you could see the Bombers D was running out of gas trying to keep up.

Harris was an absolute beast. It's too bad RD didn't throw caution to the wind by going for the two-point conversion at the end. The way MBT was slinging and Harris was running, I bet we would have gotten into the end zone for a dramatic win.

Despite the loss, this was a statement game. Given how badly we played last weekend, there was a chance for things to fall completely apart, but instead we gave the defending champs all they could handle, and lost only because of a few critical mistakes.

[Scooter McCray]

The Argos were the better team for 3 of 4 quarters. Being down 17-0 against that championship defence it did not look good. The first 3 Argo possessions were 3 picks. Bighill dropped a sure interception. You can't dig yourself that kind of hole against Winnipeg and win most of the time. Defense kept them in the game and the offense moved the ball. Like it or not MBT is our best chance to win. He is not an all star. But management have put all stars around him. This team can win if the coach can put MBT in the right game plan so that he can play within himself and to his strengths. I like the hurry up offense. Put the ball into the playmakers hands quickly because he is an immobile QB.

[Argo57]

No surprise to come on here and see a few folks who pin all the blame on the QB. Makes sense, I guess, seeing as how he snaps to himself, and drops passes he throws to himself, and gets in the way of his own snaps by going in badly timed motion.

Fair point Paul, MBT has been far from stellar but unfortunately is the lightning rod for fans disapproval.
Plenty of blame to go around this season, shoddy blocking, dropped passes, high snaps from centre, poor play calling etc.
Some tough opponents coming up, plenty of work lies ahead for this team.

[gilthethrill]

A fluke interception ends the Argo drive. Now comes the adversity test again. How will they respond?

I thought that turnover at the Winnipeg goal line was ruled a fumble by Banks after the DB made a good play on the ball.

[AngeloV]

MBT has had a horrid last 3 games..4 if you add the East Final...he isn't the answer...Dinwiddle is a former QB. He's blind to the shiort comings..thus lost in space...walkjng a very fine line..

First off, welcome to the boards.

Not sure what you were watching last night. MBT was very good. The pick 6 was on a very bad play call by Dinwiddie. Even in top notch touch football you don’t go back to the exact same play 2 times in a row because it was open the first time. MBT was also great running no hidden last night. Maybe that’s something the Argos should do more often.

That cat calls from the crowd are idiotic. They really have no clue. Is MBT the best QB the Argos have ever had? No, but he is way better than people give him credit for. He is best when throwing down the seams. Unfortunately with Rogers and Brescacin out, they have a really small receivers group. Hard to hit those guys in seams, need to run more crossing routes to take advantage of Their speed and quickness.

As for Banks, I was vocal about hating the signing when it happened and last night hi-lighted what I said at the time. He’s a bad apple when things don’t go his way. They HAVE to cut him. You can’t have that BS go on during a game.

[Will]

Argos need to find a way to replicate their second half performance. It gave us a hint of what this team could do. It's about finding consistency to do so.

[Stevoman]

The pick 6 was on a very bad play call by Dinwiddie. Even in top notch touch football you don’t go back to the exact same play 2 times in a row because it was open the first time.

That pick 6 was a combination of bad decisions. One by Dinwiddie for the actual call but also a bad read by MBT to throw to the wide side with Banks in blanket coverage by Rose.

Overall, the Argos came back to life and played a much better game in the second half but that first quarter, coming off of a humiliating 44-3 defeat is unacceptable and of course they know that. Now we'll see how they move on from this. More fracture and in-fighting or coming together and finally playing a full game of efficient football. It's an interesting storyline for sure.

[OV Argo]

That pick 6 was a combination of bad decisions. One by Dinwiddie for the actual call but also a bad read by MBT to throw to the wide side with Banks in blanket coverage by Rose.

Overall, the Argos came back to life and played a much better game in the second half but that first quarter, coming off of a humiliating 44-3 defeat is unacceptable and of course they know that. Now we'll see how they move on from this. More fracture and in-fighting or coming together and finally playing a full game of efficient football. It's an interesting storyline for sure.

MBT and the entire offence played great, AFTER MBT made some real bad mistakes and poor decisions - blaming the play-call for the pick-6 is laughable - that's on a pro QB making a dumb throw; and threw another bad pick and Bighill almost had another one; a receiver getting in the way of a snap to cause a fumble = too many F-ups. Banks coughing up the ball on what should have been a real nice TD drive led to that side-line feud ? NO good.

This team has some talent but plenty of question marks IMO; coaching and TEAM concept/ discipline (didn't like the signing of Banks from day one - whiny baby when things don't go his way - and he seems not a fit with the team to go along with the bad drops); Bede blows too many make-able place kicks IMO - even though Haggerty is a strong punter, but so is Bede, and he's great at booming kick-offs and can make some 50+ yd. FGs; but I'd bring in another place-kicker to see if he can be more reliable and accurate for converts and short FGs, and let Bede just handle the 45+ yarders and kick-offs. And MBT should be benched if he continues to make dumb plays - see what Kelly or whoever has, and maybe it smartens MBT up. And seen enough of un-blockable ex-NFLer Ray to get he is not an impact CFL DE - Robbie Smith is better IMO and should be playing more, and maybe give Marion some reps at DE (that's where he played in the Q).

I think the Argos can compete for first in the mediocre East, but they need to make some changes IMO.

[argolio]

Our two interceptions came on 2nd and long, a situation the Bomber D lives for. We also gave up some sacks on 2nd and longs later in the game.

D-line did a solid job against their running game but there wasn't enough pressure vs the pass. As a result, the secondary was asked to do too much at times, though I really liked the physical aspect they brought. Must be a lot of sore bodies today.

O-line was much improved. That's a good sign.

Sideline brouhaha was a really bad look. Someone should get cut for that. Pinball being close with Banks might prevent that.

There's no sugarcoating how disgusting the East standings look. An under .500 record will get a team an East final if this keeps up.

[paulwoods13]

Sideline brouhaha was a really bad look. Someone should get cut for that.

Who's going to get cut? Blake, our most experienced and versatile o-lineman? Banks, our most experienced receiver who has scored two-thirds of our touchdowns? Or Tate, nominally a backup but now starting thanks to our self-imposed lack of depth? I don't see any of them walking the plank over this.

[OV Argo]

Who's going to get cut? Blake, our most experienced and versatile o-lineman? Banks, our most experienced receiver who has scored two-thirds of our touchdowns? Or Tate, nominally a backup but now starting thanks to our self-imposed lack of depth? I don't see any of them walking the plank over this.



Banks may be the good ole "most experienced" receiver but he F'd up bad last game and has a history of being a petulant baby on the bench with a TEAM; if a discussion with the HC reveals he was a big part of the side-line beef, IMO he should be cut for not being a vet leader, plus for maybe being washed-up as a starting CFL receiver. And thr Argos have plenty of CFL experience at receiver with Daniels, Gittens into his 3rd year and long-time vets like Rogers & Brescacin still around.

[Argo57]

Argos need to find a way to replicate their second half performance. It gave us a hint of what this team could do. It's about finding consistency to do so.

That is the frustrating part Will, this team is more than capable of performing at a high level but need to figure out how to consistently do so.

[Argo57]

Who's going to get cut? Blake, our most experienced and versatile o-lineman? Banks, our most experienced receiver who has scored two-thirds of our touchdowns? Or Tate, nominally a backup but now starting thanks to our self-imposed lack of depth? I don't see any of them walking the plank over this.

When some injured receivers return Banks should be shown the door.

[paulwoods13]

I don't see it happening, no matter who gets healthy.

[Randall]

The long and short of it? Combination of dumb decisions, inconsistent play from MBT and highly questionable coaching staff AND fighting amongst team-mates gives the question how long before major changes?
Or pull a Leafs act and fire a no name coach.

[Randall]

If you look at the whole scenario. The issue is at QB. Little talent there...makes the other taken whither.

[ArgoRavi]

If you look at the whole scenario. The issue is at QB. Little talent there...makes the other taken whither.

MBT may not be Doug Flutie or Condredge Holloway but he isn't Tony Adams, Dan Manucci or Mark Jackson either. He is a good enough QB to win with if you have a solid supporting cast. I have followed the Argos since the mid-1970s and have seen lots of bad QBs go through both Toronto and the CFL and MBT isn't one of them.

[paulwoods13]

If you look at the whole scenario. The issue is at QB. Little talent there...makes the other taken whither.

The whole scenario includes (in no particular order) terrible personnel decisions, poor play selection, bad snaps, dropped passes, missed tackles and stupid penalties. But sure, the issue is at QB.

[Will]

MBT may not be Doug Flutie or Condredge Holloway but he isn't Tony Adams, Dan Manucci or Mark Jackson either. He is a good enough QB to win with if you have a solid supporting cast. I have followed the Argos since the mid-1970s and have seen lots of bad QBs go through both Toronto and the CFL and MBT isn't one of them.

The Argos certainly don't have an elite OL, and their pass rush hasn't been the best this year so far. Things can improve certainly, but right now does he have the supporting cast? No, but he's also made mistakes as well. He isn't blameless at all.

I do, however, largely agree with the principal that he's no Flutie/Holloway but he's not as bad as the others you've mentioned.

[ArgoGabe22]

But can we all agree that he lacks some touch when throwing deep? This isn’t all on MBT but I can’t recall him making a nice deep throw. Are the receivers never breaking free from coverage? This seems to have been a problem since forever for some odd reason. MBT is better going short and slowly moving the ball forward like he did in the last two quarters.

[OV Argo]

But can we all agree that he lacks some touch when throwing deep? This isn’t all on MBT but I can’t recall him making a nice deep throw. Are the receivers never breaking free from coverage? This seems to have been a problem since forever for some odd reason. MBT is better going short and slowly moving the ball forward like he did in the last two quarters.

There was a stat I saw somewhere (3 Down ?) about QB completion percentages for deep throws (last season?) and MBT's #s were not good - more like brutal.

[AngeloV]

Who's going to get cut? Blake, our most experienced and versatile o-lineman? Banks, our most experienced receiver who has scored two-thirds of our touchdowns? Or Tate, nominally a backup but now starting thanks to our self-imposed lack of depth? I don't see any of them walking the plank over this.

Banks should be cut. He may have 2 TD’s, but he also gave one away. His catch to target ratio is the worst in the team so far, and as soon as Rogers or Brescacin are back, Ambles should permanently take his spot. I said it all the time and I am doubling down on it, it was a bad signing.

[paulwoods13]

Banks should be cut. He may have 2 TD’s, but he also gave one away. His catch to target ratio is the worst in the team so far, and as soon as Rogers or Brescacin are back, Ambles should permanently take his spot. I said it all the time and I am doubling down on it, it was a bad signing.

I wish I felt we could count on Rogers and Brescacin coming back, but I don't. I'm not convinced either guy is not healthy enough to play now. At minimum, there seems no chance we will see either guy for at least three more games. As for Banks, I don't think he's getting cut and even though I'm not a fan of his personality, I don't want him to be cut. I believe he offers more big-play potential than our other receivers, and I see signs of MBT developing trust in him, even though he is (mostly) playing out of position.

[Rich]

O-line was much improved. That's a good sign.


The got some really good push against a strong front 7. Harris was 21-111 without any long runs to inflate his total, which means a lot of hard work moving bodies around upfront, plus some awesome running by the big man. Props to Dinwiddie for committing to the run and scheming it up good, and to the big eaters for pulling it off. i'd like to see them add some misdirections and draws to mix it up, but this was something they can build on. And you don't need to be Alfred Einstein (as Joe Theismann once said) to know that you've got a good chance to win any game when you get 100+ yds rushing.

[Rich]

But can we all agree that he lacks some touch when throwing deep? This isn’t all on MBT but I can’t recall him making a nice deep throw. Are the receivers never breaking free from coverage? This seems to have been a problem since forever for some odd reason. MBT is better going short and slowly moving the ball forward like he did in the last two quarters.

There's no doubt his strength is the intermediate 10-20 yd pass over the middle. He threw some absolute darts right on the money in the second half, and when he starts stringing those darts together he looks awesome.

But yeah, the long ball has been a problem for him since day 1, and it's not getting any better.

I honestly think he's getting a mental block about it like that pitcher who just couldn't throw a ball to first base. It's funny, last year most of his long ball misses were too long, but ever since the EF he's throwing most of his long balls short. Remember that game and all the 50/50 balls our guys weren't getting, most of them were underthrows. There are already several examples this year, last game in BC Banks had two strides on the defender deep and had to slow down (but drew the PI). And that TD to Banks in this game has to be one of the most poorly thrown TD passes anyone will see. I guess it's still possible that he'll one day start finding the range on the long ball, and if he does that he'll be one helluva QB.

So when was his last nice deep throw? Was it late September last year when he hit Worthy's fingers with a rainbow just before halftime against the Als, or was it that incredible throw and circus catch by Daniels in Hamilton a couple of weeks later? Has he connected on a nice long ball since then?

[paulwoods13]

As an ardent defender and fan of MBT, even I can't argue that he hasn't been tremendously accurate on deep balls, although there are exceptions such as the two Rich mentioned. It might indeed be more mental than physical at this point -- MBT holds himself accountable to an extent that at times borders on self-flagellation. That said, I continue to believe this problem is fixable, and even if it isn't fixed, he has enough other attributes to be capable of leading this team to a Grey Cup.

[Rich]

As an ardent defender and fan of MBT, even I can't argue that he hasn't been tremendously accurate on deep balls, although there are exceptions such as the two Rich mentioned. It might indeed be more mental than physical at this point -- MBT holds himself accountable to an extent that at times borders on self-flagellation. That said, I continue to believe this problem is fixable, and even if it isn't fixed, he has enough other attributes to be capable of leading this team to a Grey Cup.

There's no doubt he's got some great attributes. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned his effort and determination running across the field to save a sure TD on Banks' fumble, whatta great play, almost Brad Elbergian. It's hard to be critical of such a great team player, especially a self-flagellating one. ;-)

But I think we'll have trouble winning the Cup unless he can connect on some long bombs. Seriously, Paul, have there been any others since the two I mentioned? It's great to march the ball downfield, but every now and then your QB needs to make a real big play. That pass to Worthy turned that game completely around in Argos' favour, the Als started strong but that TD meant a double-digit Argo lead at halftime. It was the play of the game, it lifted the whole team, and IMO he needs to do it more than once every seven games if this team is going to win the Cup.

[ArgoGabe22]

But I think we'll have trouble winning the Cup unless he can connect on some long bombs.

Watching Rourke connect on two long bombs last night made me very jealous. We could have had this guy.

[AngeloV]

Watching Rourke connect on two long bombs last night made me very jealous. We could have had this guy.

But in the grand scheme of things, did he really do any better against the Bombers than MBT did? Not saying I wouldn't take him over MBT, because Obviously, I would love to have Rourke here. But my point being, there is more to success than completing 1 or 2 bombs a game. Some great wins by Rhymes on 50/50 balls helped too.