Marketing ideas for Argos

[Argoboy83]

Edmonton Elks just announced kids 12 and under can come in free to games for the rest of the season. Bill Manning and MLSE you have empty seats available to do this and spark some interest in the team please try this.

[Mocha]

How about trying to revitalize the "Double Blues" by offering suites at a more reasonable price. I'd contact the people at afrobiz.ca to try to attract minority entrepreneurs into the group.

This bit from the Atlantic article caught my attention. It was a shameful miscalculation by MLSE, but one that I think could be rectified:

When the late David Braley owned the team, he approached Lean about recreating a booster club that had lifted the fortunes of the other CFL team he owned, the B.C. Lions. The idea was to invite a group of Toronto business leaders to watch the Argos, then use their network to expand the team’s reach.In Vancouver, the club was called “The Waterboys.”
In Toronto, it was the “Double Blues (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/david-braley-hopes-high-profile-booster-club-can-lift-argos-fortunes/article595677/).”
Former Ontario premier Mike Harris was a member, as was former Leafs president Brian Burke and soon-to-be Toronto mayor John Tory. Membership was the price of two season tickets, and members had the choice of spending a bit more to get pizza or a hot dog at home games. It was a cash bar.
Lean said it lasted until the team moved to BMO Field and raised the price of private suites.
“At the time, everyone thought, ‘it’s going to be the hottest thing in town,’” he said. “Well, they priced themselves out of the market, and we closed down.”

[Mocha]

I'd also like to see the team fill all the field-side seats, even if it means freebies. If any field-side seats remain unsold say 30 minutes before kickoff, put a system in place to offer them as free upgrades to ST holders.

And give some to local players like Muamba, Brescasin, Adeboboye to distribute to family and friends. Since those seats are always visible on broadcasts, it would be great to have them filled with young, engaged, diverse fans.

And use the MLSE clout to have a few Leafs or Raptors in those seats. As I mentioned above, they are always visible in the broadcasts, so that might help to get some media attention.

I was thinking during Monday night's game that it would have been fun to have some Tiger-Cats in those seats, keeping an eye on the competition. That's not something that could often be scheduled, but if Hamilton ever has a bye week when the Argos have a home game, why not?

They could also get in players from U of T and/or York in those seats. If the schedule ever matched, get players from both schools in those seats and promote the upcoming Red & Blue Bowl. Or get players from the winning team in shortly after the Red & Blue Bowl.

[bannedforlife]

Figure out how to broadcast in additional languages like HNIC Punjabi

[argolio]

Figure out how to broadcast in additional languages like HNIC PunjabiGreat idea, but what a huge missed opportunity for the CFL, especially in this market.

[bannedforlife]

Great idea, but what a huge missed opportunity for the CFL, especially in this market.I gave a real world example here (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?6766-The-Athletic-articles-on-the-Argos-and-TFC-(Insigne)&p=160433&viewfull=1#post160433) of why this can work. It just seems the Argo quick fixes (former NFLers) etc never work. Time for a laid out long term plan with fixed goals (something I'm sure they have given lip service to).

In all my years watching football I don't think I've ever heard the game explained. The colour guy says his technical mumbo jumbo ie weak side LB, which if you've never played football or had much to do with sports you have no clue what that is. Explain the game so people can understand it. What is a post pattern, where did it get it's name?

Sorry to the politically correct out there but an old pro wrestling promoter adage was to attract the young girls (I will extend that to women). Because wherever young women go young men are likely to follow. In the early days of TV Dennis James used to announce wrestling, and he would attract huge numbers of women by saying "Hello mother" and then explaining the rules and what is going on to a growing audience of women who appreciated learning what was going on.

Have every broadcast encourage going to a live event saying tickets are available, where and how do I get tickets, what time/date etc. That might be something they do on radio, I've never heard it on TSN. Have the broadcasters or a game host push the promotions for the events (family packages etc) not just once but throughout the broadcast. TSN and the league are supposed to be partners aren't they? It might behoove them to see how WWE sells (or used to sell) their live events. The broadcast is a commercial to draw people to the live event.

I get this isn't specifically an issue for the Argos but also a league issue.

[Mocha]

Sorry to the politically correct out there but an old pro wrestling promoter adage was to attract the young girls (I will extend that to women). Because wherever young women go young men are likely to follow. In the early days of TV Dennis James used to announce wrestling, and he would attract huge numbers of women by saying "Hello mother" and then explaining the rules and what is going on to a growing audience of women who appreciated learning what was going on.


I recall in the 90s when the Riders were not drawing well. They set up these hot tubs in the endzones as a party section and had attractive young women (and men) in the tubs. While I'm sure there was much more to the Rider turnaround than that, it was a way to make going to the games attractive to those in their teens and twenties.

To be fair, the league and TSN seemed to have been trying to promote this feeling in the 2019 season, with lots of focus on young people drinking and having fun in the stands. I hope they can get back to that. For the Argos, I think getting young attractive women in those field side seats could help.

[bannedforlife]

I recall in the 90s when the Riders were not drawing well. They set up these hot tubs in the endzones as a party section and had attractive young women (and men) in the tubs. While I'm sure there was much more to the Rider turnaround than that, it was a way to make going to the games attractive to those in their teens and twenties.Actually, my ideas were meant to be a little more wholesome than that but by today's standards and morays maybe you are correct. Probably sold a bunch of merch (https://www.amazon.ca/Calhoun-Saskatchewan-Roughriders-Two-Piece-Bikini/dp/B07PQT4SZQ) as well :)

[paulwoods13]

In all my years watching football I don't think I've ever heard the game explained. The colour guy says his technical mumbo jumbo ie weak side LB, which if you've never played football or had much to do with sports you have no clue what that is. Explain the game so people can understand it. What is a post pattern, where did it get it's name?



You've hit on one of the biggest obstacles to attracting new fans, IMO. The terminology of football was always hard for newbies to grasp, but has become far harder (and stupider IMO) in recent years. Why on earth was the relatively understandable short and wide side of the field changed to the "boundary" and "field"? The game is played on a field, with four boundaries -- how can people who aren't in the know be expected to know what those terms mean? WILL and SAM and MIKE -- make sense if you understand they are names derived from acronyms referring to specific positions/sides of the defence, but if you don't know what they mean, good luck to ya. I have never, in 50-plus years watching football, had someone explain in plain, understandable language, things like "A gap" and "cover 2," although I have (mostly) managed to pick it up by puzzling through it on my own. And this newish naming of receivers as X, Y, Z etc., is (like so much other football lingo) inscrutable to those who never played the game on an organized basis. End of rant.

[bannedforlife]

Sorry to show ignorance, but do you still write? Have you ever or thought to put that in print for the public. People in charge definitely need to hear it.

[bannedforlife]

I have never, in 50-plus years watching football, had someone explain in plain, understandable language, things like "A gap" and "cover 2," although I have (mostly) managed to pick it up by puzzling through it on my own.Amen, I think, like the example I posted, every so often they should imagine they are describing the game to a 90 year old Punjabi grandmama. I think many in the audience would appreciate it as well and also it would encourage new fans.

How about during a break in play (injury, etc) a quick, say, 10 sec pop up video explaining what a SAM is, what a WILL is, what a post pattern is.

[Argoboy83]

I think selling the unused upper deck seats for 5 or 10 bucks a ticket, free tickets for kids 12 and under, ethnic theme nights to attract Italian, Indian and African Canadian fans to the games would help. Also having 2 games a year with a music attraction like Doman is doing this year in BC to generate a spark are things I would do.

[bannedforlife]

I think selling the unused upper deck seats for 5 or 10 bucks a ticket, free tickets for kids 12 and under, ethnic theme nights to attract Italian, Indian and African Canadian fans to the games would help. Also having 2 games a year with a music attraction like Doman is doing this year in BC to generate a spark are things I would do.I think one thing to watch for when giving away tickets is to not piss off the STH. It's like when the phone company gives new customers all the deals and the old loyal customers have to pay the old high rate. That's something they shouldn't have to complain about.

[Argo57]

I think one thing to watch for when giving away tickets is to not piss off the STH. It's like when the phone company gives new customers all the deals and the old loyal customers have to pay the old high rate. That's something they shouldn't have to complain about.

I am a ST holder and I say have at it, do whatever it takes to increase attendance and generate new fans.
We willingly purchased season seat and have no issue with this.

[AngeloV]

I am a ST holder and I say have at it, do whatever it takes to increase attendance and generate new fans.
We willingly purchased season seat and have no issue with this.

You and I have discussed this and I agree. Most ST holders I have discussed this with feel the same way as you and I. We’re not talking about giving free season tickets. Give like 5k away per game, but make sure it’s a different 5k every game. If a quarter of all those people enjoy themselves, that a potential of 10k new fans gained.

[Argo57]

You and I have discussed this and I agree. Most ST holders I have discussed this with feel the same way as you and I. We’re not talking about giving free season tickets. Give like 5k away per game, but make sure it’s a different 5k every game. If a quarter of all those people enjoy themselves, that a potential of 10k new fans gained.

It actually is a no brainer.
Seats are sitting empty, fill the and expose as many people as you can to the Canadian game.

[paulwoods13]

Sorry to show ignorance, but do you still write? Have you ever or thought to put that in print for the public. People in charge definitely need to hear it.

Assuming you were addressing that to me, thanks for the question. Other than jabbering away on forums like this and Twitter, I'm focusing almost exclusively on long-form writing these days. I have another book in the works -- there are still a lot of unknowns, and many aspects of the project are out of my control, but if it comes to fruition and gets published I think it will be of interest to Argo and CFL fans.

[1971GreyCup]

I am a ST holder and I say have at it, do whatever it takes to increase attendance and generate new fans.
We willingly purchased season seat and have no issue with this.

Hamilton is doing exactly this for their next game. $10 tickets for kids accompanying an adult who buys a ticket. Smart move.

[shayman]

I love the idea of explaining the basic terminology better. I’ve been a dedicated Argo fan for close to 30 years - but never played - and if you asked me for these details, I’d still have no clue. I can barely tell you the names of the positions. But I still love coming.

I wish they’d make an effort to sell the whole game day experience, not just the game. Tell people what it’s like attending a game. Even if you aren’t a football expert, you can enjoy the atmosphere. Tell stories about the dance team. Who’s the singer? Who’s the announcer? Who are some of the crazy fans with the signs and hats and so on (especially because it seems like we see the same faces in any photo of the crowd.). What goes on at a tailgate? Wait, you can take the train to the game and get off right there? How does that work? Who’s in the (assuming there ever is one again, perhaps the BTTB will come back) band? Introduce someone at their first game to someone who’s been coming for 50 years and see if they hit it off. What’s it like if you sit in the end zone with crazy people? What’s it like in the club seats? Wait, there’s a hidden club where you can get a really nice carved prime rib sandwich too? (And a $25 beer, but there are $7 beers too.) There are contests during the game? Cool, tell me more. There’s an Argo song they play after the touchdowns? How does it go? Show me the music and the lyrics so I can sing along! Etc etc.

There is so much you could talk about beyond just the details of “Cover 2”, whatever the heck that is.

I think it’d help - but sports media only wants to talk about the actual football details. There aren’t enough pure football fans to fill the building. We need casual fans who would enjoy a fun outing too.

[paulwoods13]

I trust folks noticed that the flagship Elks drew a tiny crowd last night, despite the universally acclaimed efforts of their new CEO to revitalize that franchise. Obviously it's just one game, and I'm in the camp lauding Victor Cui for his efforts, but this is indicative of how serious the CFL's problems are, and the fact they are not just in Toronto's indifferent market.

[Argo57]

I trust folks noticed that the flagship Elks drew a tiny crowd last night, despite the universally acclaimed efforts of their new CEO to revitalize that franchise. Obviously it's just one game, and I'm in the camp lauding Victor Cui for his efforts, but this is indicative of how serious the CFL's problems are, and the fact they are not just in Toronto's indifferent market.

Especially troubling considering they were playing against the arch rival Stampeders.
This league has a lot of heavy lifting ahead to survive long term IMO.

[ArgoRavi]

I trust folks noticed that the flagship Elks drew a tiny crowd last night, despite the universally acclaimed efforts of their new CEO to revitalize that franchise. Obviously it's just one game, and I'm in the camp lauding Victor Cui for his efforts, but this is indicative of how serious the CFL's problems are, and the fact they are not just in Toronto's indifferent market.

The year off hurt the league more than we could have realized. However, other major pro sports leagues are struggling with attendance too, such as MLB, so it's not only a CFL thing. Having said all of this, we all need to have some patience. I think that the likes of Cui and Doman have great ideas but it's going to take some time to bear fruit.

[bannedforlife]

Assuming you were addressing that to me, thanks for the question. Other than jabbering away on forums like this and Twitter, I'm focusing almost exclusively on long-form writing these days. I have another book in the works -- there are still a lot of unknowns, and many aspects of the project are out of my control, but if it comes to fruition and gets published I think it will be of interest to Argo and CFL fans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRLX8gaE4Dc

[bannedforlife]

The year off hurt the league more than we could have realized. However, other major pro sports leagues are struggling with attendance too, such as MLB, so it's not only a CFL thing. Having said all of this, we all need to have some patience. I think that the likes of Cui and Doman have great ideas but it's going to take some time to bear fruit.Totally agree with this. Plus the fact that there will be an age group that is detached from this kind of public setting and also people leery of gatherings because of the virus, not necessarily the virus itself but just being around large numbers of other people. We have gone through a massive societal change, we have customer service people now who find phone calls "too personal" and only want to converse via text and its forms. I don't know if we ever will return to the way things were pre pandemic, same as air travel changed after 9-11. I too don't think this is just a CFL issue.

[bannedforlife]

Just as an aside I'm having issues with the forum opening threads using Firefox. I'm on Chrome now and it is ok. Edit: Cleaned the cookies et al, works ok on FF now.

[bannedforlife]

I love the idea of explaining the basic terminology better. I’ve been a dedicated Argo fan for close to 30 years - but never played - and if you asked me for these details, I’d still have no clue. I can barely tell you the names of the positions. But I still love coming.

I wish they’d make an effort to sell the whole game day experience, not just the game. Tell people what it’s like attending a game. Even if you aren’t a football expert, you can enjoy the atmosphere. Tell stories about the dance team. Who’s the singer? Who’s the announcer? Who are some of the crazy fans with the signs and hats and so on (especially because it seems like we see the same faces in any photo of the crowd.). What goes on at a tailgate? Wait, you can take the train to the game and get off right there? How does that work? Who’s in the (assuming there ever is one again, perhaps the BTTB will come back) band? Introduce someone at their first game to someone who’s been coming for 50 years and see if they hit it off. What’s it like if you sit in the end zone with crazy people? What’s it like in the club seats? Wait, there’s a hidden club where you can get a really nice carved prime rib sandwich too? (And a $25 beer, but there are $7 beers too.) There are contests during the game? Cool, tell me more. There’s an Argo song they play after the touchdowns? How does it go? Show me the music and the lyrics so I can sing along! Etc etc.

There is so much you could talk about beyond just the details of “Cover 2”, whatever the heck that is.

I think it’d help - but sports media only wants to talk about the actual football details. There aren’t enough pure football fans to fill the building. We need casual fans who would enjoy a fun outing too.Great post, full of common sense good ideas, some that I've never really thought of or heard before. Put a camera in the stands, up close and personal with the fans. One of the best TV director shots I've seen was one of those old folk shows from the 60s where Ian and Sylvia IIRC were singing. The director cut to a shot showing a girl intently listening playing with her hair (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwccBJxRchA) and he stayed with it (starts at 1:30). That shot conveyed more emotion than just the standard covering of the event.

I watched the other night and the formal setup of the panel in the studio finally came across to me as useless. I know a lot of people don't like the panel as a personality or jealousy thing but it just came across to me as a form whose time has passed and very lame. They were talking over each other, Kate's presence as a woman seemed out of sync, it just seemed to serve no purpose other than to "cover the black" as we used to say. And again this isn't a CFL thing, I heard an ESPN basketball guy say the same thing and he took it even further.

[Argo57]

Totally agree with this. Plus the fact that there will be an age group that is detached from this kind of public setting and also people leery of gatherings because of the virus, not necessarily the virus itself but just being around large numbers of other people. We have gone through a massive societal change, we have customer service people now who find phone calls "too personal" and only want to converse via text and its forms. I don't know if we ever will return to the way things were pre pandemic, same as air travel changed after 9-11. I too don't think this is just a CFL issue.

All valid points.
I would also add home theatre as a favourable alternative for many, HD big screen TV, cheaper beer and snacks no parking and all the comforts of home.
Tough sledding especially for a gate driven league like the the CFL.
You are right, things have changed and will not go back to the way they were.

[shayman]

Exactly. The number one thought needs to be “Why should somebody come down here instead of watching the game at home? Why is this better?”

[shayman]

Incidentally if you want to see a neat example of a team that’s really thinking differently about the game day experience and putting on a show that is way more entertaining than usual - search out some video of the Savannah Bananas minor league baseball team. They haven’t quite veered into full Harlem-Globetrotters-the-actual-game-is-a-sham territory but they sure are trying a lot of new things to engage people and attract fans who think baseball is boring.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/baseball-thats-gone-bananas

[bannedforlife]

but they sure are trying a lot of new things to engage people and attract fans who think baseball is boring.Whenever I see someone calling something boring, I immediately think they are boring and lack creativity and imagination. Even an accountant can see beauty in numbers. Just a pet peeve of mine.

[AngeloV]

I trust folks noticed that the flagship Elks drew a tiny crowd last night, despite the universally acclaimed efforts of their new CEO to revitalize that franchise. Obviously it's just one game, and I'm in the camp lauding Victor Cui for his efforts, but this is indicative of how serious the CFL's problems are, and the fact they are not just in Toronto's indifferent market.

Sooner or later the CFL is going to realize Thursday nights do not help attendance numbers.

[bannedforlife]

Sooner or later the CFL is going to realize Thursday nights do not help attendance numbers.They've realized that for a long time, it's TSN that wants it. It gives them a good rating on a slow night. Kinda hard to bite the hand that feeds you.

[paulwoods13]

Sooner or later the CFL is going to realize Thursday nights do not help attendance numbers.

Maybe not, altho Thursdays and even Wednesdays weren't impediments to attendance in the heyday of the league (and a case can be made that in summer, it might be easier to get people to games in Toronto during the week than on weekends). But this attendance problem runs way deeper than one night of the week.

[Mocha]

Figure out how to broadcast in additional languages like HNIC Punjabi

I just came across this story. An Elks-Bombers game will be broadcast in Cree, though I think that's only via radio.

https://windspeaker.com/news/sports/windspeaker-media-broadcast-canadian-football-league-contest-cree?fbclid=IwAR3yObseC4R-qLQWkS9OWI-ekGNbZguZOqwjd4FNO59rS9l-39cPZb0efnQ

[bannedforlife]

I just came across this story (https://windspeaker.com/news/sports/windspeaker-media-broadcast-canadian-football-league-contest-cree?fbclid=IwAR3yObseC4R-qLQWkS9OWI-ekGNbZguZOqwjd4FNO59rS9l-39cPZb0efnQ). An Elks-Bombers game will be broadcast in Cree, though I think that's only via radio.Fantastic, combined with this:

Enoch Cree Nation’s Ashley Callingbull named in-game co-host for Edmonton Elks (https://globalnews.ca/news/8879900/enoch-cree-nation-ashley-callingbull-edmonton-elks-host/)
Caley Gibson Global News May 30, 2022

[dmont]

I love the idea of sharing marketing ideas for the team, but "marketing ideas" is such a broad category that potentially good ideas might get lost as people debate the merits and drawbacks of all the suggestions. So, I definitely support the intention of this thread, but I hope you'll take a minute to check out the "2-Kool" thread that lays out a marketing idea that I've been kicking around in my head for a while.

[Argoboy83]

Being a realist based of MLSE's disinterest in the Argos and how small the fan base is now in Toronto would not be surprised if the Argos relocate to either Hamilton or London in 2 or 3 years they could do a similar model of how the Toronto Rock relocated to Hamilton as they got better dates and an interested market and market share more to themselves. Tannenbaum obviously wants to be in the XFL and with the league turning that down has obviously given up even more so now.

[Mocha]

I love the idea of sharing marketing ideas for the team, but "marketing ideas" is such a broad category that potentially good ideas might get lost as people debate the merits and drawbacks of all the suggestions. So, I definitely support the intention of this thread, but I hope you'll take a minute to check out the "2-Kool" thread that lays out a marketing idea that I've been kicking around in my head for a while.

I like the idea. The Argos and the league need to some ads with an edgy humour that would get people talking. It's been decades since they've done that.

A less-edgy idea I would suggest is to work with ESL schools to arrange some kind of value-added outing packages. Give them a good deal on group seating low on the east side so they'd be seen on tv. The students are generally young and diverse, and they don't know that the CFL is not considered cool by locals. Organize some kind of pre-game event with a meet-and-greet with Pinball and/or global players and/or the cheerleaders. Maybe get them done up in Argos face paint or have them create Argos signs.

[ArgoGabe22]

I like the idea. The Argos and the league need to some ads with an edgy humour that would get people talking. It's been decades since they've done that.

"Home is where the heart is. It's also where we hurt people."

[Argo57]

Being a realist based of MLSE's disinterest in the Argos and how small the fan base is now in Toronto would not be surprised if the Argos relocate to either Hamilton or London in 2 or 3 years they could do a similar model of how the Toronto Rock relocated to Hamilton as they got better dates and an interested market and market share more to themselves. Tannenbaum obviously wants to be in the XFL and with the league turning that down has obviously given up even more so now.

So move to Hamilton to get “market share” more to themselves?

[Argoboy83]

There are more cfl fans in the Hamilton area than Toronto now and they can share the stadium similar to ny jets and NY giants do in New Jersey. They would no longer have to live in the shadows of jays leafs tfc raptors... point being the fat lady has sung anyone who thinks mlse has good intentions and will run this team long term after tannbaums and Manning comments this year is fooling themselves.

[AngeloV]

There are more cfl fans in the Hamilton area than Toronto now and they can share the stadium similar to ny jets and NY giants do in New Jersey. They would no longer have to live in the shadows of jays leafs tfc raptors... point being the fat lady has sung anyone who thinks mlse has good intentions and will run this team long term after tannbaums and Manning comments this year is fooling themselves.

Why are pretty well all of your posts an effort to move the Argos out of BMO? First Lamport and now Hamilton. Sounds like a TFC troll on here. Do you still have your no Argos at BMO sign?

[OV Argo]

There are more cfl fans in the Hamilton area than Toronto now and they can share the stadium similar to ny jets and NY giants do in New Jersey. They would no longer have to live in the shadows of jays leafs tfc raptors... point being the fat lady has sung anyone who thinks mlse has good intentions and will run this team long term after tannbaums and Manning comments this year is fooling themselves.

Yeah, and the BC Lions were doomed with Braley owning the team ... ooops, a very rich, sharp, local and caring guy took over.

[Mocha]

"Home is where the heart is. It's also where we hurt people."

Heh, not bad.

The physicality of the game is another aspect I think the league should market more.

What does the CFL have that its competitors (MLB, MLS, NFL, NHL, NBA) don't?

1. Canadian content--ruleset, all franchises, roughly 40% of players, national champions every year. (Only NHL comes close in some of these measures)

2. Contact / Collision / Toughness -- this is as aspect the other summer sports, MLB and MLS, in particular are lacking.

3. Rivalries -- Most Canadians in CFL markets have friends, relatives, colleagues, etc. who live in at least one of the other CFL markets. This can make for a sense of rivalry that the league hasn't emphasized enough. Lysko wanted to market around that, but the direction was a bit too politcally incorrect. I think that marketing strategy should be revisited and updated to appeal to modern sentiments.

["Issues"Mcgee]

BMO Field is the best place for the Argos and moving them to Hamilton is absurd and would be a historic humiliation. Considering the City of Toronto is a cornerstone in the history of Canadian Football.

You know what would really help the Argos? If they didn't follow up every succesful season with a complete disaster.

[Scooter McCray]

Moving this team should be the last resort and not until a legitimate effort were made to build a fan base by ownership. If ownership is not willing to do that the league should operate the team. The league needs a team in Toronto. Given the efforts made by the other ownership and management groups for the other teams and the effort MLSE put into their other teams, the league must be very disappointed with MLSE.

[BATKINSON001]

Moving this team should be the last resort and not until a legitimate effort were made to build a fan base by ownership. If ownership is not willing to do that the league should operate the team. The league needs a team in Toronto. Given the efforts made by the other ownership and management groups for the other teams and the effort MLSE put into their other teams, the league must be very disappointed with MLSE. I don't know about the league but we argos fans sure are disappointed with mlse

[ArgoRavi]

I don't know about the league but we argos fans sure are disappointed with mlse

Bill Manning and MLSE are too busy trying to prop up their league worst soccer team at the moment to concern themselves with the Argos. When is $13 million man Insigne ever going to play anyway?

[ArgoGabe22]

Bill Manning and MLSE are too busy trying to prop up their league worst soccer team at the moment to concern themselves with the Argos. When is $13 million man Insigne ever going to play anyway?

TFC has just signed three Italian players in total. I wonder if Manning ever thought of any creative way in getting TJ Jones signed? Or is he too busy orchestrating soccer transactions?

[gilthethrill]

TFC has just signed three Italian players in total. I wonder if Manning ever thought of any creative way in getting TJ Jones signed? Or is he too busy orchestrating soccer transactions?

The Argos have no President.

[Scooter McCray]

The Argos have no President.Honestly, where does the reluctance to install a fulltime Argonauts President come from with MLSE? It's a simple question that needs to be asked of them. Manning clearly has other interests. The football team needs attention. And someone like Mike Clemons would pleasantly surprise them on driving enterprise value.

[bannedforlife]

Honestly, where does the reluctance to install a fulltime Argonauts President come from with MLSE? It's a simple question that needs to be asked of them.That question has to be asked organically by the fan base. You certainly won't hear that from a complicit media. What the hell has happened to reporting when reporters are now in bed with corporations and government.

Don't look for MLSE to "fix" the Argos, that will have to be done by the remaining fans doing what they can do to get more people involved.

[Mocha]

That question has to be asked organically by the fan base. You certainly won't hear that from a complicit media. What the hell has happened to reporting when reporters are now in bed with corporations and government.

Don't look for MLSE to "fix" the Argos, that will have to be done by the remaining fans doing what they can do to get more people involved.

I'm curious as to what other teams, especially the successful ones, will have to say about it. If the Argos want those other teams to share their revenue with the Argos, then you'd think the teams would expect a certain level of effort from MLSE. And hiring a president for the club seems a basic step.

[OV Argo]

I'm curious as to what other teams, especially the successful ones, will have to say about it. If the Argos want those other teams to share their revenue with the Argos, then you'd think the teams would expect a certain level of effort from MLSE. And hiring a president for the club seems a basic step.

Too bad the other teams can't just vote clowns like MLSE off the island.

[bannedforlife]

I'm curious as to what other teams, especially the successful ones, will have to say about it. If the Argos want those other teams to share their revenue with the Argos, then you'd think the teams would expect a certain level of effort from MLSE. And hiring a president for the club seems a basic step.Damn right they're pissed. Can you imagine Saskatchewan giving money to Toronto, outrageous. Frankly, if I had any morals and was part of the largest market in the country and accepting revenue sharing from the smallest, you would think you would be embarrassed by professional courtesy alone. At least Montreal and Vancouver are trying and are trending upward no matter how small so far.

It's terrible having to do this in an Argo thread. It's not the Argos or their still loyal fans who should have to hear this but the losers at MLSE. You knew what you were getting into. Tanenbaum going on about valuation, are you f'n crazy? A guy once told me it cost the same amount of money to make a good TV show as a bad one. So instead of losing however many millions a year, why not do what you have to, to make a small profit. One of your own guys years ago said the Argos could make a couple million a year profit but it wasn't enough for MLSE to buy the club at that time. Well you've got it now and your marketing geniuses are executing an epic fail with no public face or long term plan to make it better. And the worse part is I don't think they care if they let a nearly 150 year old institution die.

I would actually love it if they had someone at MLSE come on here and give me a blast and tell me how wrong I am, but I doubt if they care.

[bannedforlife]

I'm trying not to come across as naive in my posts (see above) but I will inject some anger over reason now. I get a lot of the Argo/MLSE issues but I also know diligent and focused work pays off, and having an actual face of leadership for the franchise can only help. If corporate giants like Bell and Rogers and their marketing and sales departments can keep ripping us off with insane utility costs, one would think they could figure out a way to sell 20k tickets in a market of 5/6 million, ten times a year. If they sold the CFL the same way they have the NFL on CTV (with the wider exposure) the Argos would be in much better shape. Pushing an American product over a Canadian one is unconscionable, you should be ashamed. During war time they used to have a name for things like that.

[bannedforlife]

An old article with some still relevant ideas

Solving the Argos Attendance Woes (https://lastwordonsports.com/2017/07/07/solving-argos-attendance-woes/)
Brendan McGuire lastwordonsports.com July 7, 2017

The Canadian Football League’s struggles in Canada’s biggest city are nothing new, but the league and team continue to struggle for a solution. However, I’m willing to solve the question of how to make the CFL in Toronto work for everybody right now, and finish the Argos attendance issues for once and for all.

Solving the Argos Attendance Woes

Identifying the problem

We can start by identifying where this whole thing went wrong. The big smoke loved the Toronto Argonauts enough to hold a parade for them after losing the Grey Cup in the rain bowl of 1982, and then another when Bob O’Billovich and the Double Blue broke a thirty-one-year championship drought the very next season. The team stayed competitive throughout the eighties but by the end of 1988, brewing giant Carling O’Keefe began sudden bleeding red ink from the team’s budget. They sold the franchise to Harry Ornest to recoup the five million dollars they lost in the previous three seasons.

So what the heck happened? Was it on-field performance? Not at all – the Argos had just one losing season in the previous five. Was it the need for a dome to get inside from Lake Ontario’s elements raining over the old decrepit CNE stadium? Not a chance. The Argos attendance inside of the Skydome (now Rogers Centre, but who likes these corporate names?) sucked throughout their twenty-seven year climate-controlled stay. Lack of big name stars? Nope. Rocket Ismail, Pinball Clemons, Doug Flutie, Ricky Williams, and Ricky Ray are as big as it gets in this league, and they couldn’t fix it either.

The real answer is that the Toronto Blue Jays won their first American League East pennant in 1985 and challenged for a World Series berth that fall. They blew a three to one lead in the American League Championship Series to the eventual world champion Kansas City Royals, but that’s beside the point. Toronto got a taste of something really big league other than hockey (if the Maple Leafs even count). Along with the construction of the new Skydome and all of the attention it received from all over the world, the city’s attention shifted to bigger things than the adorable CFL and its two Roughrider teams.

Solution

So how does the Canadian Football League and Argo business department fix this? Throw money at it and hope stars and a winning team solves everything? Nope. Been there, done that. Failed miserably every time.

The first step is to take notice that North American football is not a global game. Its fan base is dominated by people who grew up in North America watching the game since their youth. It relies heavily on a rural audience. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that Toronto and all of Canada have become more diverse and urbanized in the thirty years since the Argos became the team the Big Smoke forgot about.

Football is also a complicated game. Start educating the public on what they’ll get for investing their time in our great game. Hire a person like Paul Beeston or Jeff Hunt to run the ship. If owner Larry Tanenbaum doesn’t want to be the guy on the street pumping up this organization, then find somebody who will. Current Argonauts President-CEO Michael Copeland is a competent executive when it comes to research and organizing the business, but he is not the guy to have on the street selling this thing to ordinary Joes.

It wasn’t hard to spot a familiar demographic at last November’s Grey Cup at BMO Field: grey-haired white men. This has to change. The Raptor game one night later was stocked aplenty with men and women, young and old, of all ethnicities. It was wonderful. This is what the Argos need.

Connect with Students and the Middle Class

A good start might be Argo university nights at local restaurants and pubs. Partner with these establishments’ managers and owners to bring people in on different nights of the week and talk about the Argos and Canadian football. Have players and coaches show up to explain the rules. Give tickets to some and encourage them to bring their friends and teach them about the game too.

A small business owner in Ottawa recently explained to me about how he never would have invested into the Ottawa Redblacks had it not been for chairman Jeff Hunt visiting him face to face and introducing him to the crowd. The Redblacks are a good template to follow for coming back from the dead. The Argos need their own Jeff Hunt on the ground, to connect with middle-class folks throughout the GTA and translate his or her love of the Toronto Argonauts in a way that would make John Candy proud. Paul Beeston’s passion for the Toronto Blue Jays re-ignited that brand. It could happen for the Toronto Argonauts too.

In a region with roughly six and a half million people, there are plenty of eyeballs who cannot afford Blue Jays, Leafs or Raptors tickets. The Argos need to hang their hat on families and the middle class. The Argos are fun, affordable—but not cheap, there’s a difference—entertainment. Emphasize that when you’re selling the team to these ordinary folks. Don’t try to be the NFL, or anything else you’re not.

League needs Toronto to Maintain TSN, Corporate Canada

The Argos are a viable brand in Toronto. The on-field product is superb and so is the in-game experience of outdoor BMO Field. And it’s vital for the CFL to make this work.

If you want to know what would happen to the league with the loss of Toronto, just ask legendary Montreal Expo owner Charles Bronfman about what happened to his business when MLB shut them out of the Toronto TV market. Corporate Canada lost interest in that whole thing real fast. The Expos didn’t make it, and the CFL cannot afford to take a hit like that.

The Argos need to survive and need to thrive. The Canadian Football League depends on it more than it’s depended on anything before.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I think one thing to watch for when giving away tickets is to not piss off the STH. It's like when the phone company gives new customers all the deals and the old loyal customers have to pay the old high rate. That's something they shouldn't have to complain about.

As an STH I wouldn't mind if they gave away single seats that would be empty otherwise.

I believe the greatest advertisement a football team could have is a full stadium with a good crowd.

[Argo57]

TFC has just signed three Italian players in total. I wonder if Manning ever thought of any creative way in getting TJ Jones signed? Or is he too busy orchestrating soccer transactions?

The TJ Jones saga falls on the leagues idiotic rules.

[gilthethrill]

The TJ Jones saga falls on the leagues idiotic rules.

I would bet the farm that Manning has no clue who TJ Jones is.

[AngeloV]

I would bet the farm that Manning has no clue who TJ Jones is.

What farm? You’re not from Saskatchewan, and this ain’t Hee Haw.

[Scooter McCray]

Manning has the Azurri lads ready to go. The 50,000 that watch TFC on TV will be thrilled with the effort he puts into running TFC. The over 750,000 plus that will watch the Argos on Sunday night will be left scratching their heads as to why he and his bosses at MLSE don't see the opportunity they have with their football team.

[bannedforlife]

Manning has the Azurri lads ready to go. The 50,000 that watch TFC on TV will be thrilled with the effort he puts into running TFC. The over 750,000 plus that will watch the Argos on Sunday night will be left scratching their heads as to why he and his bosses at MLSE don't see the opportunity they have with their football team.Because Regina and Winnipeg aren't as glamorous as Columbus and Orlando City

[gilthethrill]

Manning has the Azurri lads ready to go. The 50,000 that watch TFC on TV will be thrilled with the effort he puts into running TFC. The over 750,000 plus that will watch the Argos on Sunday night will be left scratching their heads as to why he and his bosses at MLSE don't see the opportunity they have with their football team.

You expect that many viewers for a TFC game?

[Scooter McCray]

You expect that many viewers for a TFC game?There worth $1 Billion right? So they must have solid TV numbers, attendance, off the charts following on social media, incredible TV deal, blue chip Canadian and global multi national corporations breaking their doors down to be part of the magic?
I say this tongue in cheek but the Argos do have pluses like TV viewership. And they should be exploited and developed not treated like an ugly stepchild. Not all the viewership is in Saskatchewan.

[Waffle]

I see some baseball clubs are holding contests where the winner gets to throw a pitch before the game starts. Maybe the CFL could do something similar. For example, maybe have a contest where the winner gets to flip the coin for the coin toss? Something like that might generate interest?

[bannedforlife]

I see some baseball clubs are holding contests where the winner gets to throw a pitch before the game starts. Maybe the CFL could do something similar. For example, maybe have a contest where the winner gets to flip the coin for the coin toss? Something like that might generate interest?This did conjure up some thoughts. I would find it interesting to know what goes into making a successful minor league baseball franchise and what can be glomed from it.

[gilthethrill]

I see some baseball clubs are holding contests where the winner gets to throw a pitch before the game starts. Maybe the CFL could do something similar. For example, maybe have a contest where the winner gets to flip the coin for the coin toss? Something like that might generate interest?

How about the winner gets to make a tackle?

[AngeloV]

How about the winner gets to make a tackle?

Winner gets a case of Sleeman 2.0

[gilthethrill]

Winner gets a case of Sleeman 2.0

Oh Jolly Joker. I sat through the double header Thursday night and went to bed after with that commercial embedded in my head. Counted it 11 times during the Winnipeg Edmonton contest last night. “Why not make it 2.0”????

[AngeloV]

Oh Jolly Joker. I sat through the double header Thursday night and went to bed after with that commercial embedded in my head. Counted it 11 times during the Winnipeg Edmonton contest last night. “Why not make it 2.0”????

I think our O-missioner is looking to somehow use that commercial to help sell CFL 2.0. After all they both have 2.0 in their names. How can it possibly fail?

[jerrym]

Here's something the Stampeders just started with specific appeals to different types of fans now that their attendance is failing. Do you think its worth trying with the Argos?

https://www.stampeders.com/tickets?utm_source=INFRONT&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=SGT&https://www.stampeders.com/tickets?utm_source=INFRONT&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=SGT&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhMD11M2S-QIVsMLCBB3kLQU5EAAYASAAEgIsA_D_BwE

[bannedforlife]

Here's something the Stampeders just started with specific appeals to different types of fans (https://www.stampeders.com/tickets?utm_source=INFRONT&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=SGT&https://www.stampeders.com/tickets?utm_source=INFRONT&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=SGT&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhMD11M2S-QIVsMLCBB3kLQU5EAAYASAAEgIsA_D_BwE) now that their attendance is failing. Do you think its worth trying with the Argos?Those are good packages, BTW the AMA is the Alberta Motoring Association in case anyone was wondering. But the real problem for Toronto is getting people to the point where they are looking at the packages. Unfortunately, I think that is far from happening and is the real issue.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Send a car flag to all STH's either for Labour Day or the playoffs and then give a bunch away to the general public.

Nothing says legit competition in an international city like flags. Cheap. Simple. Effective.

[Mocha]

Send a car flag to all STH's either for Labour Day or the playoffs and then give a bunch away to the general public.

Nothing says legit competition in an international city like flags. Cheap. Simple. Effective.

The Stamps used to (maybe still do) give out horse-logo stickers for car windows and you'd see them all over town. The Argos might be able to do that with simple white A logo stickers.

[bannedforlife]

https://i.imgur.com/jCeAFP5.png

[bannedforlife]

https://i.imgur.com/INgvYzt.png

It says Manning will find the time to appear at this. Might be a good time to ask when he can find time to appear for the Argos.

[Topshelf]

The league as a whole has attendance issues, even Sask.
MLSE needs to take control of the stadium operations.
Then instead of 1 stand have stadium wide cheap menus.
Make everything 5 bucks. 5 dollar footlong hotdogs 5 dollar tickets 5 dollar small beers 5 dollar.parking.

Every game a giveaway, bobbleheads jerseys etc. Why do only the Blue Jays have decent giveaways?

Or sign some big name QB and receiver. But not sure what kinda name would qualify. Maybe Baker Mayfield if he cant find a decent contract next year.

TFC crowds werent that great this year, they signed 3 Italians and sold out the last game. You can either go that route or Savannah Bannanas and go full minor league experience.

[gilthethrill]

The league as a whole has attendance issues, even Sask.
MLSE needs to take control of the stadium operations.
Then instead of 1 stand have stadium wide cheap menus.
Make everything 5 bucks. 5 dollar footlong hotdogs 5 dollar tickets 5 dollar small beers 5 dollar.parking.

Every game a giveaway, bobbleheads jerseys etc. Why do only the Blue Jays have decent giveaways?

Or sign some big name QB and receiver. But not sure what kinda name would qualify. Maybe Baker Mayfield if he cant find a decent contract next year.

TFC crowds werent that great this year, they signed 3 Italians and sold out the last game. You can either go that route or Savannah Bannanas and go full minor league experience.

So in a league that has a 5 Million $$ salary cap, how does a team sign a Baker Mayfield and stay under the cap? TFC can dump insane amounts of cash on these guys because MLSE doesn’t mind losing their shirts on the soccer team for whatever reason.

[Argo57]

So in a league that has a 5 Million $$ salary cap, how does a team sign a Baker Mayfield and stay under the cap? TFC can dump insane amounts of cash on these guys because MLSE doesn’t mind losing their shirts on the soccer team for whatever reason.

Agree, sounds great but not feasible for many reasons.

[ArgoZ]

So in a league that has a 5 Million $$ salary cap, how does a team sign a Baker Mayfield and stay under the cap? TFC can dump insane amounts of cash on these guys because MLSE doesn’t mind losing their shirts on the soccer team for whatever reason. MLSE leverages those losses against the perceived value of the franchise. It’s a house of cards as someone put it, that could fall at anytime, but keeps carrying on for the time being.

[Topshelf]

Thats fair. But then you have to go full community/minor league experience. I dont want to be "that tfc guy", but soccer fans that follow TFC know it isnt EPL or other european leagues. Maybe its TSN trying to market this as top level football. It cant compete with the NFL, so market it as a cheap local option to watch football.
Make it a community experience, cheap tix, real tailgating (ford will green light that, get Tory on board), giveaways, was there even a bobblehead day this year?
My friends talk about a bunch of the jays giveaways even if they dont attentmd theyre aware its bucket hat day.
Otherwise the biggest Argo moves in the last decade were Ricky williams and all you can eat pizza. Oh the kick for the million had a good turnout too.
You cant market the Argos players against Josh Allen, Mahomes, Brady etc. So then its either a cheap night out or endless gimmicks to get the crowd from 11k to 21k

[Topshelf]

I have a friend in Milton. Follows cfl, son plays football, the type of fan mlse should be marketing towards. Well they go to 1 or 2 ticat games a year. Say the drive is easier and they can tailgate.
The Argos wont get the casual crowd theyll go to the Jays or TFC, you need to provide a cheap, genuine football experience for football fans

[Will]

I have a friend in Milton. Follows cfl, son plays football, the type of fan mlse should be marketing towards. Well they go to 1 or 2 ticat games a year. Say the drive is easier and they can tailgate.
The Argos wont get the casual crowd theyll go to the Jays or TFC, you need to provide a cheap, genuine football experience for football fans

I cannot guarantee an easier drive -- but you should tell your friend that tailgating does take place at BMO Field.

[jerrym]

Send a car flag to all STH's either for Labour Day or the playoffs and then give a bunch away to the general public.

Nothing says legit competition in an international city like flags. Cheap. Simple. Effective.

Sounds like a good idea to me or anything else that increases visibility would be good

[Retrogorilla 2]

Main reason: Starts and stops with players (and others tied to the organization) that fans recognize and care about. Years where we had the Rocket, Doug Flutie (along with John Candy and Wayne Gretzky onboard as execs) there was a legitimate interest from the city and better crowds. Pinball was last Argo would say that your average Toronto "normie" might know the name of from his playing days and how long ago was that??

MLSE (and previous owners) have done absolutely ZERO in promoting the players.

A simple ad campaign to get the likes of MBT and Gittens perceived as 'stars' would be an easy enough start but I doubt MLSE wants to spend a dime on it, tbh, as they'd prefer to bitch how the league isn't generating the billions an NFL team could.

[AngeloV]

Main reason: Starts and stops with players (and others tied to the organization) that fans recognize and care about. Years where we had the Rocket, Doug Flutie (along with John Candy and Wayne Gretzky onboard as execs) there was a legitimate interest from the city and better crowds. Pinball was last Argo would say that your average Toronto "normie" might know the name of from his playing days and how long ago was that??

MLSE (and previous owners) have done absolutely ZERO in promoting the players.

A simple ad campaign to get the likes of MBT and Gittens perceived as 'stars' would be an easy enough start but I doubt MLSE wants to spend a dime on it, tbh, as they'd prefer to bitch how the league isn't generating the billions an NFL team could.

Agreed 100% with your last 2 points and the concept of your first point.

I have been vocal about player turnover in the past, but I think it’s not the issue it used to be. It’s hard to sell a player in this market making less than NFL minimum wage, when all we hear about in the media is how every QB extension in the NFL is breaking the previous high record and these players are now on the verge of becoming Billianaires. Sadly this market gravitates to money.

[bannedforlife]

MLSE (and previous owners) have done absolutely ZERO in promoting the players.

A simple ad campaign to get the likes of MBT and Gittens perceived as 'stars' would be an easy enough start but I doubt MLSE wants to spend a dime on it, tbh, as they'd prefer to bitch how the league isn't generating the billions an NFL team could.Here's what the evil part of our Lord and Master has been up to lately (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-rogers-onesoccer-crtc-complaint/), remind you of anything? ie treatment of CFL by Sportsnet. No time to spend on the Argos while we are screwing with somebody else.

[Mocha]

The Argonauts have several players on the roster who played high school ball in the GTA.

Royce Metchie - St. Edmund Campion in Brampton

Robbie Smith - St. Thomas Aquinas Secondary School in Brampton

Henoc Muamba: Father Michael Goetz Secondary School in Mississauga

Dejon Brissett - Loyola Secondary School in Mississauga

Jack Cassar - Lorne Park Secondary in Mississauga

Philip Blake - Father Henry Carr Catholic Secondary School in Etobicoke

Daniel Adeboboye - Northern Secondary School in Toronto

Braydon Noll - Trinity College School in Port Hope (Maybe a bit east of the GTA, but not much)


Why not have a campaign highlighting this local connection? Each home game, put the spotlight on these high school football programs that helped develop the Argonaut player. Invite players from the current team of those high schools, and invite some of the guys who played with the featured Argo during his high school years. Give them very visible seats in the east stands and have them wear their team jerseys or signs for their school and the Argo player.

And do something similar for other area high schools (who don't happen to have alum on the Argos roster), especially the local high school champs. Maybe opening night or early Sept/late Aug could be designated for celebrating local high school champs.

[Retrogorilla 2]

MLSE managed to screw up Leafs TV to the point it's going off the air in a couple of weeks. A lot of our ideas on this board are solid, but reality is they won't ever spend a dime or lift a finger to try and sincerely change things. I'm quite certain MLSE bought the Argos as an investment (somehow) to an eventual NFL franchise and nothing more...

TFC's success lay squarely on the grass roots fan clubs who initially created a fun atmosphere at the stadium. It was so different than the usual tepid Leafs or jays crowd, it was an event just to go to the games. Save for those supporter groups, the TFC franchise would be exactly in the same boat (pardon the pun) and struggling at the gate as well, IMO.

[Topshelf]

The high school idea is kinda cool.
Mlse doesnt want to own the Argos. It was a favor to TSN and political pressure because literally noone else was going to step up.
Thing is theyve tried all the angles over the years.
Big name nfl player? Ricky Williams didnt work out
"Tailgate gimmick" tried a few times, anyone remember the stormin norman whiskey a go go tailgate?
Big halftime shows? That tony hawk halftime year they had some.
Cheap tix? Remember 2 tshirts and 2 tix for 20 bucks at shoppers?
Giveaways? Championship ring day created some buzz.
TFC works because they got 15k seasons ticket holders. Theres atmosphere there, word spreads.
The crowds werent that great then the Italians showed up and the last 2 games have been sold out.
Toronto has always been an event town. Mlse and the cfl as a whole need to find a way to create that feel and right now that only happens locally for the labour day game or a Grey Cup.

[bannedforlife]

One has to wonder how a large corporate entity is so incompetent that they get outperformed and called out by a rookie (with far less resources aside from caring) and can't even muster up a feeble response. I would like to think they are taking the high road but I suspect they just don't care. Judging by what happened with the ownership situations in Montreal and BC I don't think we know if there were any potential Argos owners or not.

Or maybe they are competent and the end game is to let the Argos wither on the vine and die in the hopes that will kill the entire league to provide the opening for an NFL team.

[OV Argo]

Exactly !!!

[ArgoRavi]

MLSE managed to screw up Leafs TV to the point it's going off the air in a couple of weeks.

I received a weird message on my tivo the other day about this and didn't know what it was about. Leafs TV will be no more?! I used to be as big of a Leafs fan as an Argos fan until 1994-95 when that lockout happened and realized that I could do better things with my evenings. I tried keeping my fandom up for the next couple of years but then had to come to terms with the reality that I just didn't care anymore. I still enjoyed watching the old games on Leafs TV though; one of the gems they showed in the early days was an exhibition game from 1978 between a club team from Kladno, Czechoslovakia and the Leafs and I enjoyed watching that again, as nobody ever seemed to talk about it and I wondered at a point whether I had just imagined that game!

Regarding the Argos, I wonder if MLSE is trying to push for a player that wouldn't count against the cap like I believe they have for TFC.

[bannedforlife]

I still enjoyed watching the old games on Leafs TV though; one of the gems they showed in the early days was an exhibition game from 1978 between a club team from Kladno, Czechoslovakia and the Leafs and I enjoyed watching that again, as nobody ever seemed to talk about it and I wondered at a point whether I had just imagined that game!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqcHTiPprGM

[Retrogorilla 2]

I remember watching that and being really bummed out that Palamteer wasn't starting. Great days although Ballard was a cancer upon the team.

[bannedforlife]

I remember watching that and being really bummed out that Palamateer wasn't starting. Great days although Ballard was a cancer upon the team.It was a fun time to be a Leafs fan, Sittler ten point game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GqeFP7ubPs), Turnbull five goal game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OojzHw5_Ib4), beating the Islanders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaivFVf2Kf8), Leafs Fastest 3 Goals in Playoff History (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZpjxDNjnpk), Bill Hewitt's on air meltdown (https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2011/07/the-on-air-meltdown-of-bill-hewitt.html), Ballard wanting Neilson to put a bag on his head (https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/a-look-back-at-the-roger-neilson-paper-bag-game-and-pal-hals-theatre-of-the-absurd) and surprise people he was rehired. It was a soap opera for boys.

[ArgoRavi]

I remember watching that and being really bummed out that Palamteer wasn't starting. Great days although Ballard was a cancer upon the team.

Palmateer, Borje Salming, Ian Turnbull, and Lanny McDonald were all sat out of that game. There are a few players on that Kladno team that ended up in the NHL years later.

[ArgoRavi]

It was a fun time to be a Leafs fan, Sittler ten point game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GqeFP7ubPs), Turnbull five goal game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OojzHw5_Ib4), beating the Islanders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaivFVf2Kf8), Leafs Fastest 3 Goals in Playoff History (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZpjxDNjnpk), Bill Hewitt (https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2011/07/the-on-air-meltdown-of-bill-hewitt.html), Ballard wanting Neilson to put a bag on his head (https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/a-look-back-at-the-roger-neilson-paper-bag-game-and-pal-hals-theatre-of-the-absurd) and surprise people he was rehired. It was a soap opera for boys.

Those were interesting times for sure! The Leafs and Argos were the talk of Toronto back then.

[Retrogorilla 2]

The first CFL game I can remember watching was the Grey cup between the Roughriders vs the Roughriders, haha! Back around the same time period, I think...

[bannedforlife]

The first CFL game I can remember watching was the Grey cup between the Roughriders vs the Roughriders, haha! Back around the same time period, I think...Clements to Gabriel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KEojc5J-wQ

[ArgoRavi]

I have vague recollections of the 1975 Grey Cup but the first one I truly remember watching was the 1976 Grey Cup. We just got colour TV in our household that year too so the timing was perfect.

[bannedforlife]

I notice one of the tentacles of the Legion of Idiots (Bell/Rogers/Christmas Tree) has made another brilliant marketing decision, firing Lisa LaFlamme (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjXiKu1qsv5AhX2pIkEHduNBRAQFnoECBgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thestar.com%2Fnews%2Fgta%2F2 022%2F08%2F15%2Fctv-anchor-lisa-laflammes-exit-sparks-shock-on-social-media.html&usg=AOvVaw064BVDEcA7A6Rua654_2rA) for no apparent logical reason, to the dismay of almost everybody.

[AngeloV]

I notice one of the tentacles of the Legion of Idiots (Bell/Rogers/Christmas Tree) has made another brilliant marketing decision, firing Lisa LaFlamme (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjXiKu1qsv5AhX2pIkEHduNBRAQFnoECBgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thestar.com%2Fnews%2Fgta%2F2 022%2F08%2F15%2Fctv-anchor-lisa-laflammes-exit-sparks-shock-on-social-media.html&usg=AOvVaw064BVDEcA7A6Rua654_2rA) for no apparent logical reason, to the dismay of almost everybody.

And this has what to do with marketing of the Argos?

[bannedforlife]

And this has what to do with marketing of the Argos?That much of the corporate conglomerate are idiots.

[Retrogorilla 2]

Anyone else remember the cardboard footballs they'd hand out at school each year for Grey Cup? Each side had the different teams and it had a little string so you could hang it on a button or something to show who you rooting for...

CFL used to be such a big deal in a less crowded sports landscape and before the internet...not so much now. Sad to think how much time has passed by.

Here's one from the 80'S:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/155110930879?hash=item241d54f9bf:g:10MAAOSwzQNi8YG m&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoIGNWACiEk9JTc0gM3DuvNdZ2Yp0I k0GDpXTN3Ngi6S797MbpVCZP9NN933JfYqxWw9uo3ubEpybj6T 1TuLab1BOGzSWvbtnn7HhDu%2BnCYqqFPcK0fT12cx7uCK6o24 5Vk%2BlpiO64f%2BSrWx5FRLyqjpysrPaTrFfIJ7MroT0Ixakh YYvOh2stFg0WOQdZNXM7lqFdAspR1OImW78qEyHxLE%3D%7Ctk p%3ABk9SR4a83P7UYA

[Mocha]

Here are a couple of articles about how Old Spice turned their fortunes around with strong marketing.

"You’re trying to appeal to youngsters, but your customers say your product is for grandpas. Ouch."

Sound familiar? Perhaps some ads featuring sexy Argo players could attract the young women. And the young men would follow.
"The project also had a secret weapon. Market research carried out by Wieden and Kennedy unearthed an interesting insight that would prove key in the campaign’s success — 60% of body wash purchases were made by women. (https://www.wk.com/work/old-spice-smell-like-a-man-man/)"

I wonder what percentage of date and/or family outing purchases are made by women. I bet it's significant. Have any Argo or CFL ads targeted women buyers?

https://bettermarketing.pub/the-camp...e-d925bed9aee8 (https://bettermarketing.pub/the-campaign-that-saved-old-spice-d925bed9aee8)

https://www.transformationmarketing.com/marketing-campaing-success-old-spice/

[bannedforlife]

^Great post! You could say the same for Buick (http://marketingmag.ca/brands/buick-makes-a-comeback-as-it-courts-younger-customers-139021/)

I am a little reluctant to post this part but I will anyway. Bill Burr's standup routine about the WNBA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY9Gz_IMn_k) provides some insights into marketing if you go well down the rabbit hole. His thoughts that women (particularly feminists) have failed the WNBA (expecting men to support it) but yet women support the Kardashians and Housewives in droves. As an old marketer, I wonder what is the motivation for that and can it be channeled elsewhere.

I was watching on street interviews and people couldn't name the President of the US but could rattle off all the Kardashians. There is a tremendous social media element there but I have to plead ignorant because I know nothing of Instagram, Twitter, Tik Tok et al. What are the common elements that can be taken and applied to the Argos. AFAIK, the Kardashians have no actual talent aside from being famous (I stand to be corrected) if that is marketable so can the Argos.

[argolio]

Regarding the Argos, I wonder if MLSE is trying to push for a player that wouldn't count against the cap like I believe they have for TFC.I can only imagine Bill Manning never pushing for something like that and instead wanting to double the soccer budget for foreign players.

[Scooter McCray]

I can only imagine Bill Manning never pushing for something like that and instead wanting to double the soccer budget for foreign players.Dandy Ambrosie should already be pushing to the owners that each team is allowed to have their highest paid Canadian player not count towards the salary cap. That will allow BC to keep Nathan in the CFL for a few more years. We simply can't lose Canadian players like that to become third stringers on the NFL. Pay him $1Mm or whatever. He can go to the NFL when a team is ready to hand the starting job to him like Warren Moon or Doug Flutie.

[paulwoods13]

Dandy Ambrosie should already be pushing to the owners that each team is allowed to have their highest paid Canadian player not count towards the salary cap. That will allow BC to keep Nathan in the CFL for a few more years. We simply can't lose Canadian players like that to become third stringers on the NFL. Pay him $1Mm or whatever. He can go to the NFL when a team is ready to hand the starting job to him like Warren Moon or Doug Flutie.

That's contrary to what the league asked for, and got, in collective bargaining -- an upper limit on how much Cdns can be paid in their first three years. Obviously a cost-saving measure for a league that is desperate to keep costs in check. Can't see them suddenly going in the opposite direction, especially just to keep one unicorn. We are going to lose Rourke, at least for 2023 (and likely beyond, IMO).

While Moon was handed a starting position straight out of the CFL, Flutie wasn't, IIRC. He had to win the job over the higher-paid Rob Johnson.

[Argo57]

Dandy Ambrosie should already be pushing to the owners that each team is allowed to have their highest paid Canadian player not count towards the salary cap. That will allow BC to keep Nathan in the CFL for a few more years. We simply can't lose Canadian players like that to become third stringers on the NFL. Pay him $1Mm or whatever. He can go to the NFL when a team is ready to hand the starting job to him like Warren Moon or Doug Flutie.

$1M would blow the CFL salary cap up and also wouldn’t be enough to stop any player from trying to make the NFL.
Won’t happen.

[bannedforlife]

More testimony on the incompetence of MLSE

Steve Simmons on the Canadian Football League's decline & the downfall of Hockey Canada (https://omny.fm/shows/the-bob-mccown-podcast/steve-simmons-on-the-canadian-football-leagues-dec)
August 16, 2022

Steve Simmons from the Toronto Sun joins Bob and John for todays episode of the podcast.

The three spend some time on the CFL for the first half of the podcast, discussing the disparity between the leagues support in Western Canada compared to the Eastern part of the country. We look at the issues teams like the Toronto Argonauts are facing when it comes to fan interest and question why the elite play from a young Canadian QB like Nathan Rourke in BC hasn't garnered more media attention throughout the country.

[bannedforlife]

While Moon was handed a starting position straight out of the CFL, Flutie wasn't, IIRC. He had to win the job over the higher-paid Rob Johnson.Yup, Flutie was screwed because he didn't fit the old NFL stereotypical mold and Johnson did, even though Flutie performed and Johnson didn't. Even then Flutie was still in demand, coaches wanted him but it was all they could do to not make him a starter.

[Rich]

. We look at the issues teams like the Toronto Argonauts are facing when it comes to fan interest and question why the elite play from a young Canadian QB like Nathan Rourke in BC hasn't garnered more media attention throughout the country.

This perfectly typifies CFL coverage over the past 30 years: Three media guys wondering why the media doesn’t pay more attention to the CFL. And they don’t get the irony of what they’re saying.

[Rich]

$1M would blow the CFL salary cap up and also wouldn’t be enough to stop any player from trying to make the NFL.
Won’t happen.

I think when people talk about making exemptions to the salary cap, it is automatically assumed that the salary cap system would have to change to accommodate it.

This is why MLSE is pushing for “restructuring” the league to make it more like the MLS, which has a salary cap but also exemptions for marquee players.

[Rich]

I can only imagine Bill Manning never pushing for something like that and instead wanting to double the soccer budget for foreign players.

Bill Manning knows how marquee players put TFC on the map in this town, and I’d be willing to bet he’d love to be able to sign marquee players for the Argonauts too.

[Argo57]

Bill Manning knows how marquee players put TFC on the map in this town, and I’d be willing to bet he’d love to be able to sign marquee players for the Argonauts too.

What would be the price tag for a “marquee” player?
I’m sure other teams would love to see the Argos spend millions of dollars bringing in star players when they don’t have the ability to do so themselves.
MLSE has the financial clout to do this but I don’t see other teams supporting this at all.

[paulwoods13]

What would be the price tag for a “marquee” player?
I’m sure other teams would love to see the Argos spend millions of dollars bringing in star players when they don’t have the ability to do so themselves.
MLSE has the financial clout to do this but I don’t see other teams supporting this at all.

"Marquee" players in the NFL -- the kind who might move the needle in a city that no longer cares about the CFL -- make $40-million-plus. Don't see that happening, and I also don't see any "marquee" players who would be willing to play for, say, $5M moving the needle here.

[bannedforlife]

This perfectly typifies CFL coverage over the past 30 years: Three media guys wondering why the media doesn’t pay more attention to the CFL. And they don’t get the irony of what they’re saying.I recommend listening to the podcast, although they kept slipping and referring to the east being a problem moreso than the west but then admitting Hamilton and Ottawa are doing ok (and Montreal is trending upward - my words) So really Toronto is the issue, they do make some interesting points such as Hamilton being 40 minutes down the road and why they are doing well but Toronto that is so close isn't. They do say MLSE has been doing nothing for the Argos.

[bannedforlife]

"Marquee" players in the NFL -- the kind who might move the needle in a city that no longer cares about the CFL -- make $40-million-plus. Don't see that happening, and I also don't see any "marquee" players who would be willing to play for, say, $5M moving the needle here.On the McCown podcast they say Patrick Mahomes couldn't move the needle in Toronto, I concur. Me being such a big NFL fan I had to look up how to spell his name :)

[OV Argo]

I recommend listening to the podcast, although they kept slipping and referring to the east being a problem moreso than the west but then admitting Hamilton and Ottawa are doing ok (and Montreal is trending upward - my words) So really Toronto is the issue, they do make some interesting points such as Hamilton being 40 minutes down the road and why they are doing well but Toronto that is so close isn't. They do say MLSE has been doing nothing for the Argos.

Uncaring, useless, no clue about marketing Canadian football owners, + combined with a fickle, wannabe, lowest common denominator/ bottom line ruled media = the perfect storm the good ship Argo is sailing against now. The 2nd factor (that a lot of people just don't grasp) has been part of the seas of the CFL in it's own country for decades, but the waters there are roughest in Toronnawannabe land and into Southern Ontario.

Very sad, pathetic, disgraceful. Impossible to row against or pick up head-winds? Is true sailing dead (credit Jim Morrison) ? Gutless, cowardly, trendy, American wannabe media types ever going to mutiny or get a new Captain of their ship? MLSE could/should be sunk though.

S. Ontario gets annexed to the USA to the delight of a lot of the population of wannabes, and the Argos are dredged up and moved to the new Canadian border town of Oshawa, the Entertainment Capital of the World (credit Wayne & Shuster) ?

[bannedforlife]

In the McCown interview, Steve Simmons said a couple of years ago he had 36 people he knew signed up for season tickets in the same section. That number is now down to eight. Simmons said none of them received calls about renewing or why they stopped buying season tickets. So it's either incompetence or willful neglect.

[OV Argo]

In the McCown interview, Steve Simmons said a couple of years ago he had 36 people he knew signed up for season tickets in the same section. That number is now down to eight. Simmons said none of them received calls about renewing or why they stopped buying season tickets. So it's either incompetence or willful neglect.


Conspiracy theories on MLSE out to scuttle the Argo ship ? Nah, never happen.

[Argo57]

"Marquee" players in the NFL -- the kind who might move the needle in a city that no longer cares about the CFL -- make $40-million-plus. Don't see that happening, and I also don't see any "marquee" players who would be willing to play for, say, $5M moving the needle here.

No it won’t happen, it is a ridiculous thought for several reasons.

[bannedforlife]

https://i.imgur.com/O0sTgBv.png

Ask and thee shall receive - 21,024

[bannedforlife]

CFL, are you thinking FAST? If not, you should be. There is a lot of movement going that way.

DAZN expands into ad-supported space via Samsung TV+ FAST partnership (https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2022/12/16/dazn-expands-into-ad-supported-space-via-samsung-tv-fast-partnership/)
Andy Fry digitaltveurope.com December 16 2022

[ArgoRavi]

CFL, are you thinking FAST? If not, you should be. There is a lot of movement going that way.

DAZN expands into ad-supported space via Samsung TV+ FAST partnership (https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2022/12/16/dazn-expands-into-ad-supported-space-via-samsung-tv-fast-partnership/)
Andy Fry digitaltveurope.com December 16 2022

They are stuck with TSN exclusively for everything regarding the Canadian TV and streaming rights until the end of the 2025 season, I believe. Let's see what they do with the US TV/streaming rights this off-season. Genius is supposed to be helping them with that.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

They are stuck with TSN exclusively for everything regarding the Canadian TV and streaming rights until the end of the 2025 season, I believe. Let's see what they do with the US TV/streaming rights this off-season. Genius is supposed to be helping them with that.
We need to see what new content initiatives the trusted partner has planned for the 2023 season.The Winter Meetings start tomorrow.It would be nice if the intrepid media(whatever is left of it) will press Randy on this topic.TSN has reduced their financial commitment to MLS.I expect to see those new financial resources allocated to promoting CFL stories/conversations. Enough with the empty excuses that seem to be a hallmark of Ambrosie's tenure.

[bannedforlife]

TSN has reduced their financial commitment to MLS. I expect to see those new financial resources allocated to promoting CFL stories/conversations.I believe Supertramp wrote a song about you, it is called Dreamer. :)

While I love your sentiment, I wouldn't lose any sleep waiting for it to happen.

[paulwoods13]

Genius has been part of this league since before last year's Grey Cup, correct? The league keeps talking about all the great things they are bringing to the table, it sure would be nice if we heard some specifics 14 months in.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Genius has been part of this league since before last year's Grey Cup, correct? The league keeps talking about all the great things they are bringing to the table, it sure would be nice if we heard some specifics 14 months in.
It's a data dump deal.The NFL owns 6 percent of the parent company for Genius.The NFL will use the data(credit card info,names,addresses,buying patterns)to prep for
the Canadian NFL games that start in 2024.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

I believe Supertramp wrote a song about you, it is called Dreamer. :)

While I love your sentiment, I wouldn't lose any sleep waiting for it to happen.

I'm just asking them to give a little bit.:D

[bannedforlife]

TSN has reduced their financial commitment to MLS.Do you have any proof of that? Not necessarily doubting you but I like to see things like this for myself and have at hand to show TFC trolls. Two things I have found are:

MLS announces new multi-year broadcast agreement with TSN (https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls-announces-new-multi-year-broadcast-agreement-with-tsn-1.1892629)
MLS broadcast rights awarded to TSN, Fox Sports for next 4 years (https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/mls-broadcast-rights-awarded-to-tsn-fox-sports-for-next-4-years-1.6192852)

From the second article:

MLS deputy commissioner Gary Stevenson noted the media deals, beginning with Apple, were built with a streaming-first mentality. The league has found 83% of its fans watch sports on streaming devices or recorded TV during an average week, up from 52% for all TV viewers.

"The original idea was to create what is primarily a streaming package and also add to that great linear agreements with partners that we know well. We're very happy with what we're going to be able to offer. We think it's going to be a great fan experience," Stevenson said.

Aside from any main broadcast agreement, the CFL still needs to get into the FAST streaming place. MLB/NFL/PGA/PBR are on Pluto TV. MLS formerly was.

MLS on Pluto TV is no more (https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/mls-on-pluto-tv-shut-down-as-apple-era-begins-20230102-WST-414122.html). The free channel featuring MLS games, highlights and interviews has been shut down as the Apple era begins. According to Pluto TV, the MLS Channel is no longer available.

Originally launched in 2019, Major League Soccer heralded MLS on Pluto TV as “the first pro sports league to feature a dedicated channel as part of Pluto TV’s offering of 100+ live, linear, curated channels.”

Pluto TV’s MLS channel was a fan favorite. It offered free streaming access to replays of MLS games, classic MLS matches, as well as interviews and features.

That is what the CFL needs outside of their main agreement. Which begs the question why MLS is no longer able or wanting to do that vs NFL/MLB etc.

[bannedforlife]

I'm just asking them to give a little bit.Very good, won't hold up in court, but your heart's in the right place. Also your suggestion is one of my long time favourites. : )

[bannedforlife]

Pluto TV’s MLS channel was a fan favorite. It offered free streaming access to replays of MLS games, classic MLS matches, as well as interviews and features.This is what I have been going on about. Each CFL team already produces their own video content that basically is shot out of a shotgun after it has been created. It could go to the team website, the league website, social media, anywhere. A FAST channel would concentrate that in one place where everybody could go and knows where to go, locally and internationally, building brand awareness.

I sound like the dreamer now but this is all possible, it's been done and proven, others are doing it and IMO the league is being left behind in what is a very doable and valuable asset using much of the resources they already have.

Again, so nobody is confused, I mean this an an adjunct to the main agreements, not a replacement.

[Argo57]

We need to see what new content initiatives the trusted partner has planned for the 2023 season.The Winter Meetings start tomorrow.It would be nice if the intrepid media(whatever is left of it) will press Randy on this topic.TSN has reduced their financial commitment to MLS.I expect to see those new financial resources allocated to promoting CFL stories/conversations. Enough with the empty excuses that seem to be a hallmark of Ambrosie's tenure.

I wouldn’t expect any straight answers from Ambrosie on any topic, it’ll be all sunshine and lollipops and whatever BS he is peddling on the given day.

[ArgoRavi]

Genius has been part of this league since before last year's Grey Cup, correct? The league keeps talking about all the great things they are bringing to the table, it sure would be nice if we heard some specifics 14 months in.

Supposedly, we will see the fruits of Genius' labour starting in 2023.

[Will]

Supposedly, we will see the fruits of Genius' labour starting in 2023.

Apples, bananas or peaches?

["Issues"Mcgee]

Apples, bananas or peaches?

The funny thing about blue raspberries is they don't actually exist...

[Topshelf]

What would be the price tag for a “marquee” player?
I’m sure other teams would love to see the Argos spend millions of dollars bringing in star players when they don’t have the ability to do so themselves.
MLSE has the financial clout to do this but I don’t see other teams supporting this at all.

I disagree. I think a “big bad Argos” would help the league. In the west and Hamilton, it’ll only ramp up the hate. If we were able to spend big, have a good team that was seen as having an advantage, it would be an easy storyline for the league to sell. MLSE has the pockets for it, and it has worked in the past with Ismail and briefly Ricky Williams.
Probably isn’t sustainable long term.

[paulwoods13]

I disagree. I think a “big bad Argos” would help the league. In the west and Hamilton, it’ll only ramp up the hate. If we were able to spend big, have a good team that was seen as having an advantage, it would be an easy storyline for the league to sell. MLSE has the pockets for it, and it has worked in the past with Ismail and briefly Ricky Williams.
Probably isn’t sustainable long term.

It didn't work. The first year with Rocket had attendance that we'd kill for nowadays, but it was far below what ownership needed financially. Only one crowd above 40k until the Eastern Final. And attendance dropped the following year, so any gains from the big-name year dissipated almost immediately. As for the Ricky Williams year, Argos had decent attendance IIRC, but I don't trust that any of the attendance numbers from that era reflected actual paid sales.

[AngeloV]

I disagree. I think a “big bad Argos” would help the league. In the west and Hamilton, it’ll only ramp up the hate. If we were able to spend big, have a good team that was seen as having an advantage, it would be an easy storyline for the league to sell. MLSE has the pockets for it, and it has worked in the past with Ismail and briefly Ricky Williams.
Probably isn’t sustainable long term.

We are in a completely different era now. Even if the Argos were to pony up $40M for a top NFL QB, they would still say no. When the Argos paid Rocket $6M, he was the highest paid player in football. NFL revenues have possible grown 100 times what they were back then (possibly even higher).
To pay big big bucks for a secondary star down there would be a total waste of money, and likely wouldn't move the needle. And even then, I don't see any player leaving the NFL to play in the CFL, no matter what the money is.

[ArgoRavi]

We are in a completely different era now. Even if the Argos were to pony up $40M for a top NFL QB, they would still say no. When the Argos paid Rocket $6M, he was the highest paid player in football. NFL revenues have possible grown 100 times what they were back then (possibly even higher).
To pay big big bucks for a secondary star down there would be a total waste of money, and likely wouldn't move the needle. And even then, I don't see any player leaving the NFL to play in the CFL, no matter what the money is.

It's funny how much change we saw in player salaries between the NFL and CFL between the early 1980s and 1991 when Rocket was signed. In the three decades since, the difference between the two leagues salary-wise has grown exponentially.

[gilthethrill]

Mike Hogan mentioned in his “Top 22 of 22” article (point # 9) is that the team is working hard to expand the fan base. He didn’t go into specifics, but if Hoagie says an effort is being made, then I believe him.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Mike Hogan mentioned in his “Top 22 of 22” article (point # 9) is that the team is working hard to expand the fan base. He didn’t go into specifics, but if Hoagie says an effort is being made, then I believe him.

The problem the Argos face goes beyond simply promoting the team. How do you deprogram a large portion of people who have chosen to hate something before even seeing it?

[ARGOMAN 27]

It doesnt bother me about ARGO attendance. I have been consistently going to games since the 1980's. Dont think I ever spent more than $25 on a ticket, excepting GREY CUP GAMES. Don't ask me about my beer tab.:shhhh: In fact this year at THE EASTERN FINAL I spent $76 on 4 tickets for my wife and 2 boys. Yep $19 each.We had tailgate with about 15 people and other great FRIENDS, FAMILY and ARGO fans. I would rather be able to pick my seat wherever I want, small lineups for washrooms or beer/food. What could be better? Nothing! Cant wait for another great season with my closest 9,000- 14,000 friends!

["Issues"Mcgee]

It doesnt bother me about ARGO attendance. I have been consistently going to games since the 1980's. Dont think I ever spent more than $25 on a ticket, excepting GREY CUP GAMES. Don't ask me about my beer tab.:shhhh: In fact this year at THE EASTERN FINAL I spent $76 on 4 tickets for my wife and 2 boys. Yep $19 each.We had tailgate with about 15 people and other great FRIENDS, FAMILY and ARGO fans. I would rather be able to pick my seat wherever I want, small lineups for washrooms or beer/food. What could be better? Nothing! Cant wait for another great season with my closest 9,000- 14,000 friends!

Hahaha great first post. I like your style. Welcome to the forum!

[DoubleBlue_Red]

Play more Metallica in between series. Play a locomotive train sound on the defenses second down.

Also, start Chad Kelly and remind people he's related to Jim Kelly who went to 4 consecutive Superbowls. It couldn't hurt.

[Topshelf]

Play more Metallica in between series. Play a locomotive train sound on the defenses second down.

Also, start Chad Kelly and remind people he's related to Jim Kelly who went to 4 consecutive Superbowls. It couldn't hurt.

I love the marketing potential of Chad Kelly.
It’s unfair that it’s based on his name, but there are a lot of Bills fans in the GTA and making that connection could provide more visibility than any QB since Flutie. If I’m MLSE I’m working on some type of Bills day, with Jim Kelly in attendance.

[paulwoods13]

I love the marketing potential of Chad Kelly.
It’s unfair that it’s based on his name, but there are a lot of Bills fans in the GTA and making that connection could provide more visibility than any QB since Flutie. If I’m MLSE I’m working on some type of Bills day, with Jim Kelly in attendance.

Tough to do until they know whether or not CK will be the likely starter. If MBT comes back (and FTR I'm not expecting him to), he will presumably be the projected starter, at least. If he doesn't, and Kelly is the most obvious alternative, then by all means set up a marketing plan around his name. It would not be without risk -- I've said before and I continue to feel he's a loose cannon and not someone I'm yet prepared to fully invest my faith in. Hopefully he proves my doubts are unfounded.

[bluto]

Can't see any outcome other than MBT returning.

I know he's an eccentric who dances to the beat of his own drummer, but imo, a normal thinking process of a 34 year old who may never have another opportunity to make half a Mill for 6 months of work is to take the payday.

[ArgoGabe22]

but imo, a normal thinking process of a 34 year old who may never have another opportunity to make half a Mill for 6 months of work is to take the payday.

I don't know much about the entertainment industry, but his wife may be making more and is in a pretty unique situation (how many people get to write/create a TV show?). Hence, the rumours.

[paulwoods13]

Can't see any outcome other than MBT returning.

I know he's an eccentric who dances to the beat of his own drummer, but imo, a normal thinking process of a 34 year old who may never have another opportunity to make half a Mill for 6 months of work is to take the payday.

There's more than one place to earn a paycheque.

And some folks put family ahead of work. He has a wife and 2-year-old daughter he was mostly living apart from for half of 2022. I know I would not have been able to stand that when my kids were that age, regardless of how much money I was being paid.

[bannedforlife]

How the Lions are marketing

BC Lions president Duane Vienneau (https://www.sekeresandprice.com/june-16-2023-oel-buyout-rick-dhaliwal-duane-vienneau/) (36:00)

[Retrogorilla 2]

I'm thinking free beer and concessions all season long and we would see a marked increase in attendance. :D

[bannedforlife]

I'm thinking free beer and concessions all season long and we would see a marked increase in attendance. The Lions have $5 dollar beers at their festivities.

[Retrogorilla 2]

The Lions have $5 dollar beers at their festivities.

The last time I went to a TFC game I felt taken advantage of with the beer prices, which verge on the criminal. I'm assuming the Argo games are the same?

[Will]

Didn't the Argos have $6-$7 beers at one point?

[AngeloV]

Didn't the Argos have $6-$7 beers at one point?

They had $3 hot dogs and $7 beers last night.

[ArgoGabe22]

Didn't the Argos have $6-$7 beers at one point?

$5 draught at one point. I believe it was a small BUD. Last night was $7 for a small can.

["Issues"Mcgee]

They had $3 hot dogs and $7 beers last night.

You better believe they did! The discount dogs are surprisingly good. Bigger than a red hot or a top dog. No buyer's remorse at the stadium with those.

["Issues"Mcgee]

$5 draught at one point. I believe it was a small BUD. Last night was $7 for a small can.

They had $7 draught last night.

[Retrogorilla 2]

$7 I can handle...I seem to recall paying close to $15 or $16 for a king can of something or other at the last TFC game I went to. Outrageous.

[Argo57]

You better believe they did! The discount dogs are surprisingly good. Bigger than a red hot or a top dog. No buyer's remorse at the stadium with those.

The discount dogs at Argo games aren’t bad, the dollar hot dogs at Blue Jay games are horrible.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Look for the small kiosks that have blue desktop signs that say "Game Day Special."

Couple of the those dogs and some $7 draught and you're set for around 30 bucks.

You can easily spend $100 bucks a head on concessions if you are hungry, thirsty and not careful. I have numerous times.

[bannedforlife]

Figure out how to broadcast in additional languages like HNIC PunjabiElks, Lions to be first pro football game broadcast in Punjabi (https://www.rmoutlook.com/beyond-local/elks-lions-to-be-first-pro-football-game-broadcast-in-punjabi-7325277)
The Edmonton Elks home game against the B.C. Lions on Saturday will be the first professional football game broadcast in Punjabi.
Canadian Press rmoulook.com July 25, 2023

EDMONTON — The Edmonton Elks home game against the B.C. Lions on Saturday will be the first professional football game broadcast in Punjabi.

The Elks announced Tuesday that it is partnering with Edmonton multilingual radio station My Radio 580 AM to broadcast the CFL game across Alberta on radio and throughout Canada through the station's online player.

Canada is home to a Punjabi population of roughly one million people, according to the 2021 Canadian census. Alberta has the third-largest Punjabi population among Canadian provinces at 126,385 people according to the census.

British Columbia has the second-largest community at 315,000 people.

The Elks were also part of the first Indigenous language broadcast in CFL history last year when they partnered with Windspeaker Media to air a game against the Winnipeg Blue Bombers in Cree.

Sports broadcasters Harpreet Pandher and Taqdeer Thindal, who work on Hockey Night in Canada's Punjabi crew, will call the game.

[Retrogorilla 2]

1. "Tatoo Removal Night" free tatoo removal coupon with every Argo sack
2. Caviar at the concession stands
3. Game broadcast in-stadium and all PA announcements, in Esperanto
4. Switch the field to meters in BMO only. Change to 2.4 metric downs per series.
5. No shoes allowed for the kickers

i think all of these would garner great interest.

["Issues"Mcgee]

1. "Tatoo Removal Night" free tatoo removal coupon with every Argo sack
2. Caviar at the concession stands
3. Game broadcast in-stadium and all PA announcements, in Esperanto
4. Switch the field to meters in BMO only. Change to 2.4 metric downs per series.
5. No shoes allowed for the kickers

i think all of these would garner great interest.

Hamburger and hot dog cannons.

[shayman]

Hi from Halifax. Beautiful day for a game.

I think everybody here would agree that this would be a terrific spot for an actual team, so could they please get it done already.

But I gotta say I'm surprised at the lack of visible promotion of today's Touchdown Atlantic game. We're staying at the same hotel as the CFL staff, I think, and it's right on the tourist-heavy waterfront, and there are lots of Argo and Rider fans wandering around (all good naturedly congratulating each other or apologizing that the other guy travelled this far only to lose) - but it would have been nice to see a few banners or flags or something mentioning Touchdown Atlantic. Even in this hotel, where we saw the Grey Cup actually arrive in the lobby yesterday afternoon, there's nothing visible. I had more than a few local vendors ask me what was going on. Missed opportunity for sure.

[Scooter McCray]

Hi from Halifax. Beautiful day for a game.

I think everybody here would agree that this would be a terrific spot for an actual team, so could they please get it done already.

But I gotta say I'm surprised at the lack of visible promotion of today's Touchdown Atlantic game. We're staying at the same hotel as the CFL staff, I think, and it's right on the tourist-heavy waterfront, and there are lots of Argo and Rider fans wandering around (all good naturedly congratulating each other or apologizing that the other guy travelled this far only to lose) - but it would have been nice to see a few banners or flags or something mentioning Touchdown Atlantic. Even in this hotel, where we saw the Grey Cup actually arrive in the lobby yesterday afternoon, there's nothing visible. I had more than a few local vendors ask me what was going on. Missed opportunity for sure.Too bad. The league has put little effort into this year's TDA beyond game day. Teams only arriving day before, no promotion as you said. Definitely not the look if imminent expansion unfortunately. The wealthy owners of this league need to put a new commissioner in place, put a robust staff under them and get this league moving forward.

[jerrym]

The BC Lions announced that they will have their game against the Elks be the first CFL game ever broadcast in Punjabi. Vancouver has a large Punjabi population and a good number of them attend Lions games. The NHL also has some Punjabi broadcasts. Great to see the audience being expanded. With Toronto's wide ethnic diversity, the Argos should look into the possibility of having some games broadcast in other languages.

[Scooter McCray]

The BC Lions announced that they will have their game against the Elks be the first CFL game ever broadcast in Punjabi. Vancouver has a large Punjabi population and a good number of them attend Lions games. The NHL also has some Punjabi broadcasts. Great to see the audience being expanded. With Toronto's wide ethnic diversity, the Argos should look into the possibility of having some games broadcast in other languages.Great idea. However they don't see the need to do a radio broadcast in English for their away games or do any pre or post game show. They don't Operate in the framework of being successful off the field for whatever reason

[paulwoods13]

The wealthy owners of this league need to put a new commissioner in place, put a robust staff under them and get this league moving forward.

Changing the guy at the top won't make a difference if there's no additional money to spend. The league seems to be without the resources it needs to properly promote and grow the brand, and I don't see the owners agreeing to cough up more money for that purpose. There once was a fairly robust infrastructure, but Covid caused a bunch of jobs to be cut and now we're left with a front office that can be counted on to botch things (stats and TDA being just the latest examples).

[bannedforlife]

Changing the guy at the top won't make a difference if there's no additional money to spend. That's the part where I worry about Edmonton. If they ax Jones and Cornelius (which they should) they're on the hook for a lot of money. And if the change doesn't work the problems multiply if they have to get rid of the next group.

[ArgoRavi]

Changing the guy at the top won't make a difference if there's no additional money to spend. The league seems to be without the resources it needs to properly promote and grow the brand, and I don't see the owners agreeing to cough up more money for that purpose. There once was a fairly robust infrastructure, but Covid caused a bunch of jobs to be cut and now we're left with a front office that can be counted on to botch things (stats and TDA being just the latest examples).

I don't think this gets mentioned enough. The CFL did some major cutting in 2020 and I don't believe that they have come close to replacing all of those that they laid off.

[bannedforlife]

I don't think this gets mentioned enough. The CFL did some major cutting in 2020 and I don't believe that they have come close to replacing all of those that they laid off.Judging some things I saw in the past I don't know if that is a bad thing. The one guy I do miss (before Covid) was PR guy Paulo Senra. He didn't take any zhit from the likes of Sportsnet during their take the CFL down days. He was always ready to post good news and counter purposeful trollery.

As for now, here's what their present CFL forum head advocates (quoted verbatim):


no ratio

one division
4th down (i'm a bit torn here because i also want to get rid of the 1 yard LOS)

Sorry guys, but that is fooked! I don't like to see anyone lose their job but if you're against the core principles of the league, you should be the first one on your a$$ out the door.

[Scooter McCray]

Changing the guy at the top won't make a difference if there's no additional money to spend. The league seems to be without the resources it needs to properly promote and grow the brand, and I don't see the owners agreeing to cough up more money for that purpose. There once was a fairly robust infrastructure, but Covid caused a bunch of jobs to be cut and now we're left with a front office that can be counted on to botch things (stats and TDA being just the latest examples).The owners have to cough up more money and build a proper home office staff. Collectively they need to decide on what they want thus league to be and get on with it. Otherwise what's the point. Covids over.

[Scooter McCray]

The league has some outstanding owners now who are leaders and have deep pockets. This is the best collection of owners the league has ever had. They can bring the league into the 21st century if they desire to do so.

[emily.kennewell]

The concept of providing complimentary entry to children aged 12 and below for sports games is a frequently utilized approach, which has found application among multiple sports franchises and entities previously. This tactic holds the potential to significantly enhance spectator turnout and involve the younger audience segment, thereby nurturing a lasting enthusiasm for the team and the sport itself.
Considering the Edmonton Elks or other analogous sports collectives like MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment), should they find themselves with unoccupied seating capacities and aspire to ignite enthusiasm in their fan base, the option of furnishing complimentary access to kids could emerge as a viable and strategic undertaking.
This strategy aligns well with the principles of CRM data enrichment (https://www.globaldatabase.com/what-is-lead-enrichment), where the utilization of customer relationship management techniques aids in refining and augmenting customer information for improved marketing and engagement strategies. By analyzing demographic data and preferences, these sports organizations can tailor their free admission initiative to effectively resonate with the interests of both the youthful audience and their parents or guardians. In essence, the act of employing CRM data enrichment bolsters the feasibility of this promotional endeavor, as it facilitates the identification of the most receptive target demographic and the customization of engagement tactics to foster lasting connections.

[AngeloV]

The idea of offering free admission to kids 12 and under for sports games is not uncommon and has been employed by various sports teams and organizations in the past. It can be a great strategy to increase attendance and engage young fans, potentially fostering a lifelong interest in the team and sport.
If the Edmonton Elks or any other sports team, such as MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment), has empty seats available and aims to spark interest in the team, offering free admission for kids could be a viable initiative.

100%. You would also at the very least increase concession sales.

[bannedforlife]

If the Edmonton Elks or any other sports team, such as MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment), has empty seats available and aims to spark interest in the team, offering free admission for kids could be a viable initiative.They have done that for at least the last two years.

[bannedforlife]

The concept of providing complimentary entry to children aged 12 and below for sports games is a frequently utilized approach, which has found application among multiple sports franchises and entities previously. This tactic holds the potential to significantly enhance spectator turnout and involve the younger audience segment, thereby nurturing a lasting enthusiasm for the team and the sport itself.
Considering the Edmonton Elks or other analogous sports collectives like MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment), should they find themselves with unoccupied seating capacities and aspire to ignite enthusiasm in their fan base, the option of furnishing complimentary access to kids could emerge as a viable and strategic undertaking.
This strategy aligns well with the principles of CRM data enrichment (https://www.globaldatabase.com/what-is-lead-enrichment), where the utilization of customer relationship management techniques aids in refining and augmenting customer information for improved marketing and engagement strategies. By analyzing demographic data and preferences, these sports organizations can tailor their free admission initiative to effectively resonate with the interests of both the youthful audience and their parents or guardians. In essence, the act of employing CRM data enrichment bolsters the feasibility of this promotional endeavor, as it facilitates the identification of the most receptive target demographic and the customization of engagement tactics to foster lasting connections.Is this AI/ChatGPT?

[Scooter McCray]

Is this AI/ChatGPT?Are you Sarah Connor?
...um, she's not home now. Maybe come back a bit later.

I'll take the quad based plasma rifle
Hey buddy just what you see