Game Thread - Toronto at Hamilton on August 12th, 2022

[ArgoRavi]

Can the Argos sweep this first home and home series with the Ticats and take a stranglehold on first place in the East Division?

Dane Evans has not practised either of the past two days for the Ticats but Matthew Shiltz gave the Argos a bad beating in Montreal last season so the Argos shouldn't be taking him lightly.

[paulwoods13]

Once again we were without Rogers in practice. No chance he plays this week, and I expect he will be going back to the six-game IL. Grrr.

[OV Argo]

Ticats best receiver B. Addison gone for the year with a torn achilles = tough loss for their offence.

IMO - the Argos D should be able to smack down a wimpy Ticat offence with a stiff like Shiltz at QB, little ground game threat and not that much at receiver.

[Argo57]

Ticats best receiver B. Addison gone for the year with a torn achilles = tough loss for their offence.

IMO - the Argos D should be able to smack down a wimpy Ticat offence with a stiff like Shiltz at QB, little ground game threat and not that much at receiver.

Unfortunately the Argos never make things easy on themselves (or us fans), expect another nail biter that could go either way.
**Hate seeing any player go down with an injury like Addison suffered, wishing him a full recovery.**

[AngeloV]

**Hate seeing any player go down with an injury like Addison suffered, wishing him a full recovery.**
What if it was Simoni Lawrence?

[ArgoRavi]

Once again we were without Rogers in practice. No chance he plays this week, and I expect he will be going back to the six-game IL. Grrr.

Rogers and Brescacin are both so good when healthy but both have had so much trouble staying healthy in recent years.

[Argo57]

What if it was Simoni Lawrence?

Hate seeing almost any player go down with an injury like Addison suffered.

[Will]

Ticats best receiver B. Addison gone for the year with a torn achilles = tough loss for their offence.

IMO - the Argos D should be able to smack down a wimpy Ticat offence with a stiff like Shiltz at QB, little ground game threat and not that much at receiver.

The Argos never make it easy for themselves in any game let alone ones played in Hamilton.

[paulwoods13]

Could we see another Bede GWFG followed by raising the kicking tee in tribute to Reinhart?

[AngeloV]

Just realized I posted this in the wrong thread.

Depth chart is out. No Rogers or Brescacin who are both listed on the 6 game (although I predict Brescacin’s return next week. Hopefully Rogers isn’t on the 6 for it’s entirety. Banks moves back to Boundary WR and Daniels to Slot. I personally would keep Daniels at WR and move Nield to Slot. Banks should be rotating at the other slot positions. Allen is a GTD on the o-line but listed as starting RT.

Priester starts for Shaq and Carnell draws in over Holden as the back up.

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Aug-12-2022-vs-HAM-Depth-PDF.pdf

[gilthethrill]

Can the Argos sweep this first home and home series with the Ticats and take a stranglehold on first place in the East Division?

Dane Evans has not practised either of the past two days for the Ticats but Matthew Shiltz gave the Argos a bad beating in Montreal last season so the Argos shouldn't be taking him lightly.

When Shiltz was at the helm last season vs the Argos he had the benefit of William Stanback running for 203 yards and a Montreal defense that intercepted 4 passes. Dana’s backup won’t be able to lean on either tonight.

[Rich]

Coach hinted they were working on some new wrinkles for the running game, I’m hoping to see Harris’ biggest game yet as an Argo tonight.

[OV Argo]

Coach hinted they were working on some new wrinkles for the running game, I’m hoping to see Harris’ biggest game yet as an Argo tonight.

I'd like to see both Ouellette & Adeboboye dressed AND used as ball carriers; get Harris 15 touches and the other two 3 or 4 each - a diverse and applied run game sets up the pass. Probably not within Dinwiddie and his O coaches' grasp or understanding though, but I can always hope.

[dmont]

Love to see Cross catching a pass. He was pretty good at receiving the ball a few years ago. One of the heros of the 2017 Grey Cup.

[jerrym]

Love to see Cross catching a pass. He was pretty good at receiving the ball a few years ago. One of the heros of the 2017 Grey Cup.

Couldn't agree more. Nice to see him catch one after getting none all year. He seems to have been forgotten with no receptions until now but 36 and 30 in 2017-18.

[jerrym]

Terrible interception throw by Schiltz leading to Argo TD.

[jerrym]

Harris heading to dressing room with injury on right side. Hopefully we haven't lost him.

[jerrym]

Totally stupid interference penalty by Amos as receiver was well covered resulting in Tiger Cat gift TD, followed by more unnecessary penalties on next two plays.

[jerrym]

Harris now in civvies. Hopefully he'll be back next week. Nield also limping after nice long catch.

[Mocha]

I'm not sure about that pyramiding penalty. Glad we got the TD, but still.....that two weeks in a row the refs have called pyramiding. But I don't recall that one being called ever before. I wonder if it was the same guy who called both.

[jerrym]

Argos get a gift TD off Hamilton penalties as the half ends. I agree there was no the pyramiding.

[OV Argo]

Argos get a gift TD off Hamilton penalties as the half ends. I agree there was no the pyramiding.

Agreed - and why couldn't the Command Centre jump in to get it right like they did with another call earlier ???

Argos O needs to keep banging the run game - Ouellette is a good power back and is Abeboboye available too ?

Nice route and catch by Nield - too bad about the injury - he needs to get more playing time IMO; Banks should not be a starting receiver IMO.

[jerrym]

Both teams playing a typical Argo-Cat game with lots of undisciplined penalties. With two more games between these two teams soon this could get very wild. I like playing the Cats four times but not four out of five by the half way mark of the season.

[jerrym]

Banks should not be a starting receiver IMO.
Banks best before day is well past.

[Mocha]

Nice moves to pick up some good yards, by Daniels.

[jerrym]

Inexperienced Newman replaces injuredSchiltz at QB. Might be a feast for Argo DL.

[dmont]

Banks is so garbage as a receiver. Weak hands. He should only be fielding punts and kicks for us.

[jerrym]

Glad to see the Argos have a new LS, Maxime Latour, who has been doing well so far.

[Mocha]

Banks is so garbage as a receiver. Weak hands. He should only be fielding punts and kicks for us.

I'd like to see him used as something of a scat back. Maybe a few reverses, swings, screens, etc.

[Argo57]

Quit targeting Banks.
6 targets, 1 catch.

[jerrym]

I agree with not going for third and a foot with an inexperienced QB on the Tiger Cats. Make him go a large part of the field to score any points rather than giving him a chance to score on a short field. Of course you have to cover on the return which the Argos failed but survived thanks to a penalty.

[jerrym]

Of course my last post was based on a faulty assumption - Schiltz wasn't coming back due to his previous injury and then Schiltz ties it up.

[Argo57]

What a joke 29 yard short yardage play.

[jerrym]

Two long runs by Newman on QB sneak and Erlington and Bingo! Ticats have the lead. Are the Argos about to give away a game to a second string QB who was replaced by the third string for part of the game?

[Argo57]

Turn Dunigan’s mic off.

[ArgoTD]

Dumwiddoe thinks having a dangerous kick returner is just an after thought! And MBT is just good enough to be competitive but nothing more. There are so many issues with this team and so many start with terrible coaching decisions. Talent overall to be good but brutal coaching and personnel decisions. Losing to a team with a back up starting and 3rd stringer playing the whole 3rd Q. And don’t get me started on the Special Teams coaching - take away the 1 blocked kick last week and it’s the worst ST in the league!! BRUTAL!

[Argo57]

Dumwiddoe thinks having a dangerous kick returner is just an after thought! And MBT is just good enough to be competitive but nothing more. There are so many issues with this team and so many start with terrible coaching decisions. Talent overall to be good but brutal coaching and personnel decisions. Losing to a team with a back up starting and 3rd stringer playing the whole 3rd Q. And don’t get me started on the Special Teams coaching - take away the 1 blocked kick last week and it’s the worst ST in the league!! BRUTAL!

Can’t argue with anything you have posted, no excuse losing this game.
This team has no killer instinct.

[ArgoTD]

And not going for it on 3rd and a foot - weak, timid coaching that will never win a championship.

[Will]

Two out of three weeks where the Argos have played poorly in the second half. This team is beyond frustrating.

Say what you will about the defense allowing 20 points in the second half, the offense only managed 3.

[jerrym]

After the Cats were beaten so often in the fourth quarter, you could see in their body language that they were hyped once they tied the game was tied, especially after lost Schiltz for part of part the game and had got a reprieve, and the momentum shifted totally in their direction.

[jerrym]

Hopefully the Argos haven't lost Declan Cross, who limped off the field. He continues to be underused on offence.

[Scooter McCray]

The Argos had a great opportunity to buy Hamilton in the standings tonight. Up 21-14 at half, 3rd string quarterback for Hamilton in 3rd quarter. The scores they got on offense were drgence assisted and penalty assisted. The offense does not look threatening. MBT does not pass the visual test. He may put up stats but he does not instill confidence watching him. Whether it's overthrowing receivers, complete lack of eluding pass rush, or inability to gain any yardage on QB sneaks. You are never certain any play or drive is safe. I'm not saying we have any alternative this season but I have no confidence he can put this team on his shoulders and lead them on a week in week out basis to victory. Hamilton should have been defeated tonight.

[OV Argo]

Very disappointed in the Argo D; not near enough big plays like INTs, forced fumbles, sacks and knock-downs; and the Ticats won with 3 big plays - a long bomb that draws a PI that sets up a TD; another long-bomb TD pass; and then Erlington rips off a long run for a TD. Shane Ray continues to under-whelm at DE - Robbie Smith should be playing way more reps over him IMO; and don't see much out of Hendrix at DT - Acheampong is better. D-backfield is pretty average and inexperienced - need Richardson back, and the safety position is not doing anything. Losing to Shiltz and a raw rookie QB who can only run ? = not near good enough.

[Will]

This team seems destined to go 9-9 or something like that.

At the risk of sounding like 1argoholic, I don't have much confidence in beating Calgary next week.

[Nob]

Sooooo much to be miffed about, but I’ll bypass that and go straight to main peeve - coaching, and Dinwiddie.

There is no way that the Argos should have lost to this Hamilton team tonight. It’s inexcusable. Terrible coaching decisions (based on an even worse short yardage offence …. which has been a perpetual problem), lack of discipline, again, and no creativity on offence.

Why the Argos insist on going downfield, and often, with Banks makes me pull my hair out. Banks best success in Hamilton was the underneath crossing. Dinwiddie has not done that with Banks at all this year. Going downfield to Banks is a less than 50-50 shot.

I can hear the Dinwiddie apologists pointing to his two year won/loss record, but riddle me this, Batman - have the Argos improved this year over last? I say they have not. They should be much better then they are. And in the business of winning football, and entertainment, style points count. The Argos have none.

I live a couple of hours from Toronto. Why would I want to spend my time and money to go and watch this team? Blind allegiance is not the answer I’m looking for either.

p.s. Never been a fan of Donovan. Specials were horrible, again, tonight. Never will be a fan of Donovan by the looks of it either.

[Will]

Sooooo much to be miffed about, but I’ll bypass that and go straight to main peeve - coaching, and Dinwiddie.

There is no way that the Argos should have lost to this Hamilton team tonight. It’s inexcusable. Terrible coaching decisions (based on an even worse short yardage offence …. which has been a perpetual problem), lack of discipline, again, and no creativity on offence.

Why the Argos insist on going downfield, and often, with Banks makes me pull my hair out. Banks best success in Hamilton was the underneath crossing. Dinwiddie has not done that with Banks at all this year. Going downfield to Banks is a less than 50-50 shot.

I can hear the Dinwiddie apologists pointing to his two year won/loss record, but riddle me this, Batman - have the Argos improved this year over last? I say they have not. They should be much better then they are. And in the business of winning football, and entertainment, style points count. The Argos have none.

I live a couple of hours from Toronto. Why would I want to spend my time and money to go and watch this team? Blind allegiance is not the answer I’m looking for either.

p.s. Never been a fan of Donovan. Specials were horrible, again, tonight. Never will be a fan of Donovan by the looks of it either.

It was definitely not a good night for the coaching staff.

Let's not forget too (as frustrating as it is) that the Argos love to find ways to lose at Tim Horton's Field. They had no business losing the 2015 east-semi, the 2017 Labor Day game and arguably the 2019 finale (as bad as that team was).

[OV Argo]

Sooooo much to be miffed about, but I’ll bypass that and go straight to main peeve - coaching, and Dinwiddie.

There is no way that the Argos should have lost to this Hamilton team tonight. It’s inexcusable. Terrible coaching decisions (based on an even worse short yardage offence …. which has been a perpetual problem), lack of discipline, again, and no creativity on offence.

Why the Argos insist on going downfield, and often, with Banks makes me pull my hair out. Banks best success in Hamilton was the underneath crossing. Dinwiddie has not done that with Banks at all this year. Going downfield to Banks is a less than 50-50 shot.

I can hear the Dinwiddie apologists pointing to his two year won/loss record, but riddle me this, Batman - have the Argos improved this year over last? I say they have not. They should be much better then they are. And in the business of winning football, and entertainment, style points count. The Argos have none.

I live a couple of hours from Toronto. Why would I want to spend my time and money to go and watch this team? Blind allegiance is not the answer I’m looking for either.

p.s. Never been a fan of Donovan. Specials were horrible, again, tonight. Never will be a fan of Donovan by the looks of it either.


The Argos offensive brain-trust is ultra inexperienced in Canadian football.

And on another note - the Argos & Ticats playing each other 4 times in 5 weeks or whatever is a total F-ing joke - another typical brain-dead CFL leadership blunder; no surprise it's under Ambrosia's watch.

[Argo57]

Very disappointed in the Argo D; not near enough big plays like INTs, forced fumbles, sacks and knock-downs; and the Ticats won with 3 big plays - a long bomb that draws a PI that sets up a TD; another long-bomb TD pass; and then Erlington rips off a long run for a TD. Shane Ray continues to under-whelm at DE - Robbie Smith should be playing way more reps over him IMO; and don't see much out of Hendrix at DT - Acheampong is better. D-backfield is pretty average and inexperienced - need Richardson back, and the safety position is not doing anything. Losing to Shiltz and a raw rookie QB who can only run ? = not near good enough.

Well said OV, Robbie Smith makes things happen when he is in the game (which isn’t nearly enough) IMO.
Third and a foot you need to go for it and be aggressive, Dinwiddie lost his nerve and they paid for it.
Mickey Donovan is a total stiff as a special teams coordinator.
Overall the offence is much better with Brandon Banks on the sidelines.
MBT shouldn’t escape unscathed, he simply wasn’t good enough tonight.
The Argo O is very frustrating to watch, sufficient talent but insufficient results.
D-Line didn’t impress, Oakman and Shane Ray were invisible.

[Will]

The Argos haven't been able to respond two two desperate teams (Ottawa and Hamilton) in 2 of 3 weeks, although they did handle a desperate Hamilton team last week.

[Argo57]

The Argos haven't been able to respond two two desperate teams (Ottawa and Hamilton) in 2 of 3 weeks, although they did handle a desperate Hamilton team last week.

They could win the division or just as easily miss the playoffs at this point.
Can’t afford to piss winnable games away.

[Will]

I don't think there is truly a right answer with MBT. He is what he is as a QB unfortunately, and that sucks because he's the type of guy you'd love to be able to be elite instead of adequate. We know that Chad Kelly is more mobile than MBT, but that's only 1/2 the battle as a QB, can he make the right read and throws in his 1st CFL season? We simply don't know, and do you want to find out with a 4-4 team?


The Argos have pieces on D, but it's clear that they cannot consistently take over a game like Winnipeg or Calgary does. Also, these big-named DE signings never seem to work out (Davis, Hughes). Let's not forget that it was his facemask that invalidated a McManis sack that ultimately led to Hamilton getting the winning score. The D, I fear, cannot play at the same level as the 2004-2007 teams which had defenses good enough to overshadow some of the offensive liabilities.


Special teams remain atrocious, I mean field position is a significant part of the battle in Canadian Football and the Argos fail at that game in and game out. Their special teams coverage has also been generally good until tonight.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

This team seems destined to go 9-9 or something like that.

At the risk of sounding like 1argoholic, I don't have much confidence in beating Calgary next week.

9-9 is going to be good enough to win the division.It's not a talent issue with this team.The issue is chemistry.
The rest of the division is in the same predicament.They don't play well together.

[paulwoods13]

That was an extremely disheartening performance. We lost all four phases of the game (the fourth being coaching).

MBT had one of his poorer games. That said, why on earth is Dinwiddie not having him move the pocket? He's mobile enough to get outside and throw on the run, yet it didn't happen a single time, as far as I can recall. With the thin state of our o-line, something like that might make a difference.

Banks either no longer has the speed he once had, or no longer has any confidence in his ability to outrun people. He and MBT are not even remotely on the same wavelength. The injuries we have suffered at receiver have forced Banks back into the starting lineup, but how long this is sustainable is a big question. And -- again on Dinwiddie -- why is Banks still running out of wideout rather than in one of the slot positions?

How the defence couldn't stop the run, especially in the third quarter when that was all Hamilton had to offer, is a real mystery. IMO Mace is going to be an excellent DC, but he's learning on the job and is not there yet.

Special teams took a huge step back after a strong performance last week.

Going forward, there are some serious personnel concerns. It's abundantly clear to me that Lawrence is getting manhandled at centre. Since we are unlikely to see Nicastro this year, IMO it is imperative that we find someone who can play tackle, so that Blake can move to centre. Richards is NOT the answer -- we really need to hope Cage gets healthy enough to play, hopefully by next Saturday. Also, we cannot expect to win a Grey Cup without at least serviceable kick returns. It's imperative that someone -- Leake or Haydel, I guess -- be inserted into the lineup and given half-decent blocking schemes to work with. Leake might be needed anyway, as a backup/change of pace guy if Harris is out for any length of time. We likely won't have the luxury of dressing two INT backups on the d-line (MacLeod and Barlow) as we did last night. And the fact we didn't have an INT receiver ready to replace Phillips is inexcusable. If Phillips is out again next week, and/or Nield is out, and Brescacin does not dress for that game, I think we can forget about ever seeing him again in an Argo uniform.

[ArgoTD]

The experiment with Banks has to end. Maybe as a back up and sometimes as a returner but as a receiver he has nothing to offer. And why they insist on throwing it to him as opposed to KGJ or DD is unfathomable. They are the teams 2 best receivers and should get he vast majority of the passing offence built around them. Hoping Niels isn’t gone for long - he has certainly shown way more ability and talent than Brissett - too bad they wasted such a high draft pick on him given he has not progressed nearly at all (and same with Richard’s - agree with Paul that he’s destined to be a career back up - just because a kid plays in the NCAA doesn’t mean they’ll automatically be a star in the CFL one day)

[AngeloV]

It was an all around poor team effort last night. They should have been able to put the game away in the 3rd quarter when Hamilton was running their high school offence. Instead they let the Ti-Cats get a few first downs and kick a FG.
Worst game Dashaun Amos has had as an Argo. His unnecessary PI took an interception away and resulted in a TD, and was also beat on the White TD, on a ball he lost and could have picked off if he found it.
O-line is really bad right now. Honestly, I think the Argos should try and get Tony Washington out of Edmonton and move Blake to centre. The push from the line on short yardage is pathetic. I think Blake at centre could help rectify that.
MBT wasn't awful, but he could be better than he was. Having said that, if they stop calling passes to Banks it might improve overall production. When are they going to admit what I said the day they signed Banks? Huge mistake. If he wasn't finished, I really doubt Hamilton would have let him walk. I know they have a lot of injuries at receiver right now, but give Coxie a chance. Hell, bring back Dres Anderson or Damien Jean-Pierre. Both are much better receivers than Banks, and they already know the system, so there would be no learning curve. I've said it before, Banks produced in the past because he was impossible to cover. Now he's not, and he is not a good enough receiver to catch the ball in tight coverage.

I am really hoping Nield can play next week. He has been a very pleasant surprise.

[Argo57]

It was an all around poor team effort last night. They should have been able to put the game away in the 3rd quarter when Hamilton was running their high school offence. Instead they let the Ti-Cats get a few first downs and kick a FG.
Worst game Dashaun Amos has had as an Argo. His unnecessary PI took an interception away and resulted in a TD, and was also beat on the White TD, on a ball he lost and could have picked off if he found it.
O-line is really bad right now. Honestly, I think the Argos should try and get Tony Washington out of Edmonton and move Blake to centre. The push from the line on short yardage is pathetic. I think Blake at centre could help rectify that.
MBT wasn't awful, but he could be better than he was. Having said that, if they stop calling passes to Banks it might improve overall production. When are they going to admit what I said the day they signed Banks? Huge mistake. If he wasn't finished, I really doubt Hamilton would have let him walk. I know they have a lot of injuries at receiver right now, but give Coxie a chance. Hell, bring back Dres Anderson or Damien Jean-Pierre. Both are much better receivers than Banks, and they already know the system, so there would be no learning curve. I've said it before, Banks produced in the past because he was impossible to cover. Now he's not, and he is not a good enough receiver to catch the ball in tight coverage.

I am really hoping Nield can play next week. He has been a very pleasant surprise.

Banks seems to disrupt the offence, they (MBT or Dinwiddie) seem hell bent on getting him the ball which throws the rhythm right off.
As you said Banks is a shell of the player he was a few years ago, the Argos would be better served playing some younger up and coming talent.
It truly was infuriating and embarrassing watching the D struggle against Hamilton’s 3rd string QB running a basic offence.
Winning against Ottawa and Hamilton would have put the Argos at 6-2 solidly in 1st place in the East but as I have said before this team seems to lack the “killer instinct” that truly good teams have.

[ArgoRavi]

It was an all around poor team effort last night. They should have been able to put the game away in the 3rd quarter when Hamilton was running their high school offence. Instead they let the Ti-Cats get a few first downs and kick a FG.
Worst game Dashaun Amos has had as an Argo. His unnecessary PI took an interception away and resulted in a TD, and was also beat on the White TD, on a ball he lost and could have picked off if he found it.
O-line is really bad right now. Honestly, I think the Argos should try and get Tony Washington out of Edmonton and move Blake to centre. The push from the line on short yardage is pathetic. I think Blake at centre could help rectify that.
MBT wasn't awful, but he could be better than he was. Having said that, if they stop calling passes to Banks it might improve overall production. When are they going to admit what I said the day they signed Banks? Huge mistake. If he wasn't finished, I really doubt Hamilton would have let him walk. I know they have a lot of injuries at receiver right now, but give Coxie a chance. Hell, bring back Dres Anderson or Damien Jean-Pierre. Both are much better receivers than Banks, and they already know the system, so there would be no learning curve. I've said it before, Banks produced in the past because he was impossible to cover. Now he's not, and he is not a good enough receiver to catch the ball in tight coverage.

I am really hoping Nield can play next week. He has been a very pleasant surprise.


Banks seems to disrupt the offence, they (MBT or Dinwiddie) seem hell bent on getting him the ball which throws the rhythm right off.
As you said Banks is a shell of the player he was a few years ago, the Argos would be better served playing some younger up and coming talent.
It truly was infuriating and embarrassing watching the D struggle against Hamilton’s 3rd string QB running a basic offence.
Winning against Ottawa and Hamilton would have put the Argos at 6-2 solidly in 1st place in the East but as I have said before this team seems to lack the “killer instinct” that truly good teams have.

I agree, for the most part, with both of the above posters.

When they signed Banks, I envisioned him as a spot player on offence and certainly not an every down one. After 8 games, it's apparent that his best days are behind him and he should, at most, be a spot player.

Good point about Damon Jeanpierre and Dres Anderson who both showed great promise a year ago. Constantly trying to go to Banks is like putting a square peg into a round hole and completely disrupts any momentum this offence is trying to build.

Regarding the o-line, I didn't think that the pass protection was terrible last night but they can't seem to open up any holes for the running game and it isn't like the Argos haven't been trying to run. You can't be constantly second and long in this league though.

Scoring touchdowns instead of FGs has been a problem for the past season and a half and seems to be getting worse instead of better.

I am still feeling frustrated over last night's loss but hopefully we see some positive lineup changes over the next week and a much stronger performance against the Stampeders.

[argolio]

Every Argo receiver caught over 50% of targets except for Banks. Why is the guy with the worst catch ratio getting the most targets? And not for the first time, which suggests the Argos are specifically game-planning for Banks to be a prime target. They're trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

They kept trying to run on 1st down with little success after Harris left the game, which led to too many 2nd and longs. Hard to surprise the opponent by doing the same thing and also puts more pressure on the o-line. Why were they reluctant to adjust on the fly?

Maybe we were doomed to lose after Nield turned his ankle by stepping on the bottom of an advertising sign. Stupid Hamilton. Stupid Flanders.

[Nob]

A day later and I’m still ticked about this team.

The Banks comments are bang on. I thought that when they let Worthy go that maybe, just maybe, it was because Banks is better ….. I’m still stunned that they haven’t used Banks in jet sweeps, or underneath crossing patterns and let him use what speed is left. Trying to use him as a downfield receiver is bad. Just bad. As bad as the 2 catches in 8 attempts says.

There has to be other receivers out there. What happened to Phillips last night that took him out of the lineup? If they mentioned it then I missed it.

Totally agree on the lack of production on first down. It put them in second and long way too many times.

The short-yardage offence is bad. I get it that the OL can’t get any push. So why not try to get creative and go play action? Quick slants? Something? Anything? They have to do something to compensate for their OL inability to win the line, and get defences to play it differently.

And can anyone explain to my why Dinwiddie decided to kick the field goal on the last play of the game?? Don’t say “points differential”. If that was the case then leave the offence on the field to get the last 11 yards and get 7 points instead of 3.

The time for the field goal was 30 - 40 seconds earlier, which would then allow you to try an onside kick and keep the chance of victory alive. That’s a failure on Dinwiddie.

I know that I have dumped on Dinwiddie, but the above shows how he is not coaching the game based on the situation. The punt on third down was not what I would have done, but that’s me (and probably many others). Yes, he has a great record for a year and a half on the job, but they win in spite of him, not because of him.

Lastly, the last three games against the Cats are disturbing. The offence is not finishing drives (but that’s a general problem, but emphasized in the Eastern Final and last night). Last week they won with 2/3 of their td’s from D and ST.

[Argo57]

A day later and I’m still ticked about this team.

The Banks comments are bang on. I thought that when they let Worthy go that maybe, just maybe, it was because Banks is better ….. I’m still stunned that they haven’t used Banks in jet sweeps, or underneath crossing patterns and let him use what speed is left. Trying to use him as a downfield receiver is bad. Just bad. As bad as the 2 catches in 8 attempts says.

There has to be other receivers out there. What happened to Phillips last night that took him out of the lineup? If they mentioned it then I missed it.

Totally agree on the lack of production on first down. It put them in second and long way too many times.

The short-yardage offence is bad. I get it that the OL can’t get any push. So why not try to get creative and go play action? Quick slants? Something? Anything? They have to do something to compensate for their OL inability to win the line, and get defences to play it differently.

And can anyone explain to my why Dinwiddie decided to kick the field goal on the last play of the game?? Don’t say “points differential”. If that was the case then leave the offence on the field to get the last 11 yards and get 7 points instead of 3.

The time for the field goal was 30 - 40 seconds earlier, which would then allow you to try an onside kick and keep the chance of victory alive. That’s a failure on Dinwiddie.

I know that I have dumped on Dinwiddie, but the above shows how he is not coaching the game based on the situation. The punt on third down was not what I would have done, but that’s me (and probably many others). Yes, he has a great record for a year and a half on the job, but they win in spite of him, not because of him.

Lastly, the last three games against the Cats are disturbing. The offence is not finishing drives (but that’s a general problem, but emphasized in the Eastern Final and last night). Last week they won with 2/3 of their td’s from D and ST.

Cam Phillips sustained a groin injury during warmup.
I suspect point differential is why they kicked the field goal at the end of the game which I agree with especially the way the offence was performing.

[Nob]

I got that the last play field goal was for points differential, but if you’re chasing points then get the touchdown. They were close enough that they should/could have got it.

Again, they put themselves in a position to chase points rather then be in a position to tie (or win). Kick the field goal 30 seconds earlier. Give yourself a chance for an onside kick recovery and a few plays for the end zone.

[Nob]

Plus did Dinwiddie use any of his time outs? I don’t remember them being used. Again, I could be wrong.

[Rich]

I don't think there is truly a right answer with MBT. He is what he is as a QB unfortunately, and that sucks because he's the type of guy you'd love to be able to be elite instead of adequate. We know that Chad Kelly is more mobile than MBT, but that's only 1/2 the battle as a QB, can he make the right read and throws in his 1st CFL season? We simply don't know, and do you want to find out with a 4-4 team?


I love that Will, you’re right there IS no right answer with MBT!

That’s like the same thing Dunigan said on the broadcast last night. He called MBT “a difficult puzzle to solve”. That’s exactly it. Mac is great and terrible and everything in between, all in the course of a game. He’s a football mystery.

I was honestly thinking he was having one of his better games last night, up until the second half of the 4th quarter. I thought he was throwing with real authority at times, and he connected on a couple of 30+yd throws which was very promising.

But his accuracy and escapability issues reared their ugly heads in the last 7 minutes. And ultimately it’s what he DIDN’T do that turned an otherwise good performance into another mediocre one.

Hey Will, about Chad Kelly, he doesn’t have to be QB1 to see some action. Look what the Cats did with Shiltz when Evans was the starter. Shiltz would go in for short yardage, and then he’d stay in there for a few plays to get the defence guessing. And it made Shiltz more ready when Evans went down.

There’s no good reason not to do this with Kelly.

[Rich]

Regarding the o-line, I didn't think that the pass protection was terrible last night but they can't seem to open up any holes for the running game and it isn't like the Argos haven't been trying to run.

As good as Ouellette is he’s no Andrew Harris, and its an understatement to say they missed the big man last night. But early on I saw McKellar throw the key blocks on two successful running plays and I’m getting excited about this kid. He was called a run block specialist when we drafted him, he’s a massive wide body who seems to improve every game, I am optimistic about the running game still, as long as Harris is OK.

[ArgoRavi]

I listened to this excellent podcast today and it altered my perspective somewhat on Friday night's game: https://www.xsandargos.com/post/podcast-hamilton-34-toronto-27

As Ben and JB point out, the Argos had a ridiculous amount of injuries starting in pregame warmup and continuing throughout the game and it really hampered them on offence and in the defensive secondary. We can say that injuries are no excuse but, as they point out, the coaches gameplan and practise for the week with the expectation of certain personnel in the lineup and when you have so many injuries, it can really mess things up as it did Friday night. Dinwiddie and MBT were very much handcuffed by the personnel that they were down to in the second half of the game. Losing Phillips in pregame warmup was bad enough but then to have Nield - who has looked good in his limited action so far - go down with a freak injury made things even worse. Then add in Harris and you have some significant challenges. In the secondary, Priester who was filling in for Richardson goes down and then Carnell IV who was replacing Priester goes down after that which necessitated some juggling in that area.

Again, nobody is making excuses but their performance becomes a bit more understandable when you look at the limitations that they had. And, yes, Hamilton had their fair share of injuries coming into this game but, as Ben pointed out to me on Twitter, most of their injuries didn't happen during the game as the Argos' injuries did (to be fair, the Ticats had a bunch of injuries during the game last week).

Anyway, moving forward, hopefully the Argos can get the likes of Brescacin and Leake back in the lineup for next week's game; we will have to see what the defensive secondary looks like for that one. I will also note that Calgary had similar challenges offensively, at least, against B.C. and are coming into next week's game quite beaten up as well.

[paulwoods13]

I agree with Ravi (and Ben) that injuries were a huge factor. We went into the game without our best receiver and two starting o-linemen, and with another o-lineman out of position. Then we lose our second-best receiver in warmups, then our star RB early, then our fullback, then our best backup receiver, then our second-best RB. (I may be wrong on the order of all those injuries.) On defence we came in without our best halfback, lost his replacement early, then lost HIS replacement. Yes, Hamilton had some major injuries to contend with as well (especially Evans and Addison), but we had a truckload in this game. All things considered, it's pretty amazing we were as close as we were. We might have won the game despite it all, had it not been for three terrible plays by the defence and special teams in the second half. The bad news is, I have no idea how we are going to replace some of these guys if they are out for a while. Brescacin is apparently available to fill one of the receiver spots (if that's what mgmt actually wants to do -- we'll see) but we are otherwise thin in the secondary and at receiver. And the only RB options we have are Adeboboye and Leake, who will not inspire fear in any defence.

[Argo57]

I agree with Ravi (and Ben) that injuries were a huge factor. We went into the game without our best receiver and two starting o-linemen, and with another o-lineman out of position. Then we lose our second-best receiver in warmups, then our star RB early, then our fullback, then our best backup receiver, then our second-best RB. (I may be wrong on the order of all those injuries.) On defence we came in without our best halfback, lost his replacement early, then lost HIS replacement. Yes, Hamilton had some major injuries to contend with as well (especially Evans and Addison), but we had a truckload in this game. All things considered, it's pretty amazing we were as close as we were. We might have won the game despite it all, had it not been for three terrible plays by the defence and special teams in the second half. The bad news is, I have no idea how we are going to replace some of these guys if they are out for a while. Brescacin is apparently available to fill one of the receiver spots (if that's what mgmt actually wants to do -- we'll see) but we are otherwise thin in the secondary and at receiver. And the only RB options we have are Adeboboye and Leake, who will not inspire fear in any defence.

Sure the Argos had some injuries which certainly didn’t help their cause but let’s not gloss over the fact that Hamilton beat them their 2nd and 3rd string QB’s which IMO is inexcusable.

[Nob]

Yes, there were injuries, but ….

Ouellette played very well in place of Harris. There was no drop off there. And if the Argos expect Harris to be healthy all year then that’s foolish. He’s proven over the last two seasons that he can’t.

The OL injuries were known coming into this game, and pretty much the same OL as last week, if not better with the addition of Allen.

The loss of Phillips was big. I will concede that. The loss of Nield in game was significant. He is showing results with the increased playing time. Brissett has not. Who is this Brescacin guy that people are mentioning …..

The DB injuries were insignificant. It is not as if the Argos were facing the Air Raid attack. They were playing against scrub QB’s, and only gave up 4 yards in the air in the third quarter.

Every team deals with injuries. It’s a part of the game. I’m not buying that it cost them this game. A factor? Sure. Reason? No.

[OV Argo]

Yes, there were injuries, but ….

Ouellette played very well in place of Harris. There was no drop off there. And if the Argos expect Harris to be healthy all year then that’s foolish. He’s proven over the last two seasons that he can’t.

The OL injuries were known coming into this game, and pretty much the same OL as last week, if not better with the addition of Allen.

The loss of Phillips was big. I will concede that. The loss of Nield in game was significant. He is showing results with the increased playing time. Brissett has not. Who is this Brescacin guy that people are mentioning …..

The DB injuries were insignificant. It is not as if the Argos were facing the Air Raid attack. They were playing against scrub QB’s, and only gave up 4 yards in the air in the third quarter.

Every team deals with injuries. It’s a part of the game. I’m not buying that it cost them this game. A factor? Sure. Reason? No.


Yep; and good teams have depth, and more importantly, faith in their depth players to be able to step-in and play solid without a panic change of plan; because the game-plan and coaching are solid.

The defence should have been able to hold a wimpy QB like Shiltz to next to nothing and then crush a raw rookie QB who was just running around playing sand-lot football. Inexcusable.

And this offence is ultra limited and predictable; need to stick to and use more and varied run game (if Harris out, run both Ouellette & Adeboboye lots still) and quit forcing throws to tiny Brandon Banks where he is not suited to make tough catches and a guy who should not be starting let alone the fave target of a dumb OC.


I have little faith in this Argo coaching staff to deploy their players smartly/consistently.

[Argo57]

Yep; and good teams have depth, and more importantly, faith in their depth players to be able to step-in and play solid without a panic change of plan; because the game-plan and coaching are solid.

The defence should have been able to hold a wimpy QB like Shiltz to next to nothing and then crush a raw rookie QB who was just running around playing sand-lot football. Inexcusable.

And this offence is ultra limited and predictable; need to stick to and use more and varied run game (if Harris out, run both Ouellette & Adeboboye lots still) and quit forcing throws to tiny Brandon Banks where he is not suited to make tough catches and a guy who should not be starting let alone the fave target of a dumb OC.


I have little faith in this Argo coaching staff to deploy their players smartly/consistently.

All valid points OV, would also make sense to move the pocket around to help a struggling O-Line with pass protection and give MBT some clear throwing lanes.
Dinwiddie talks a lot about adding new “wrinkles” but in fact it appears they stick to the same old same old.
I’ll say it again, Banks is a liability at this point.

[gilthethrill]

Ben Grant was correct when he talked about the injury to Nield. It never should have happened. Those advertisement signs are far too close to the sidelines. I suspect they are also the reason you see 2 teams on the same sideline. This has to be fixed.

[paulwoods13]

Yes, there were injuries, but ….

Ouellette played very well in place of Harris. There was no drop off there. And if the Argos expect Harris to be healthy all year then that’s foolish. He’s proven over the last two seasons that he can’t.

The OL injuries were known coming into this game, and pretty much the same OL as last week, if not better with the addition of Allen.

The loss of Phillips was big. I will concede that. The loss of Nield in game was significant. He is showing results with the increased playing time. Brissett has not. Who is this Brescacin guy that people are mentioning …..

The DB injuries were insignificant. It is not as if the Argos were facing the Air Raid attack. They were playing against scrub QB’s, and only gave up 4 yards in the air in the third quarter.

Every team deals with injuries. It’s a part of the game. I’m not buying that it cost them this game. A factor? Sure. Reason? No.

It's obviously not the only reason. I and others outlined a number of reasons earlier. But it was a major factor that really hamstrung the offence in particular. Who was going to get open downfield once Hamilton stopped stacking up the box to stop Harris? They definitely did not stay with that look against Ouellette -- they focused on stopping the pass and dared the Argos to beat them with the run. (And of course we are having a hard time beating anyone with the run, with or without Harris, at the moment.) To me the bigger issue with injuries is that you have to be ready for them, with sufficient reserves available. We clearly have not had sufficient reserves at offensive tackle, we had to bring back a DB we cut in camp to fill in this past week, and we have no one we can count on to fill in adequately for Phillips at this point (or Rogers, unless Banks is considered an adequate replacement). And if both Harris and Ouellette are out this week, we likely have no one adequate to fill that position, either. That's on mgmt, IMO.

[OV Argo]

All valid points OV, would also make sense to move the pocket around to help a struggling O-Line with pass protection and give MBT some clear throwing lanes.
Dinwiddie talks a lot about adding new “wrinkles” but in fact it appears they stick to the same old same old.
I’ll say it again, Banks is a liability at this point.


Dinwiddie was raised on standard look, same old CFL offence = mostly dink & dunk pass, QB always under C; little diversity in run game (same old one basic search run play) and little commitment to ground game. They're afraid to run the ball lots - Harris, Ouellette, Adeboboye present different styles - what, because their O-line can't run block, but is so good at pass protection in comparison ??? And adding the likes of Banks, Ambles, Phillips (other teams' rejects) has not made this a close to top CFL receiving corps (mind you a healthy Rogers & Brescacin with Daniels & Gittens probably is up there); but I guess MBT is such a smart & accurate passer, the offence should be designed to go route tree /reads passing game mostly ?

They need a real sharp innovative OC & play-book, and doubtful that is going to happen anytime soon.

[Retrogorilla 2]

Seems we've been the same, middling team forever...