Game Thread Calgary vs. Toronto Sat. August 20

[jerrym]

Wow! A game in August not against Hamilton! Here are the injury reports for the Argos and Stamps.

https://www.cfl.ca/2022/08/16/stamps-argos-injury-reports-carey-limited-tuesday/

[AngeloV]

Looking forward to another game to attend. Nothing like being their live.

These are 2 banged up teams. I expect a close game with the score in the mid 20’s for both teams.

[AngeloV]

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Aug-20-Week-11-vs-CGY-update-PDF.pdf

Depth chart is out. Coxie starts at boundary WR spot, Daniels stays at Rogers SB spot. Banks moves to field WR (makes way more sense to put him there) and Gittens moves into the slot on the field side. Brescacin backing up, but in the line up, so will probably see some reps.

On D, Carnell starts in Richardson’s spot with Holden backing him up. No other changes on the D.
Also, Leake is back. Hopefully as primary return guy and maybe some reps in a DJ Foster type role of last year.

For the Stamps, Kadeem Carey is still out, and they have a really banged up secondary.

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/220820-Cgy-position-chart.pdf

[OV Argo]

Nice to see draft pick Dionte Knight finally on the game roster; outstanding prospect/potential for the D-Line - at either DT or DE - hope he gets some reps.

[Rich]

Coxie had a couple of tough in-traffic catch and YACs in the preseason, he seems like a Rogers-type receiver, hope he gets a couple more thrown his way Saturday. I got a feeling Brissett might be more involved in the offence too, he’s been seeing more action lately and it’s time he started to step up more.

Very excited to see Adeboboye get some carries. He’s looked good every single time he’s touched the ball. That special teams tackle was phenomenal, he is an exceptional athlete, those massive thighs bring a lot of power. And rookie RBs need less coaching-up than any other rookies, so he’s ready to go. I think he could be special. We shall see.

[paulwoods13]

Very excited to see Adeboboye get some carries. He’s looked good every single time he’s touched the ball. That special teams tackle was phenomenal, he is an exceptional athlete, those massive thighs bring a lot of power. And rookie RBs need less coaching-up than any other rookies, so he’s ready to go. I think he could be special. We shall see.

"Ben" Adeboboye (as he is apparently known to Frank Zicarelli) has tons of potential for sure. Not sure we will see too many carries this early, but hopefully he starts seeing some reps on offence.

[Mocha]

"Ben" Adeboboye (as he is apparently known to Frank Zicarelli) has tons of potential for sure. Not sure we will see too many carries this early, but hopefully he starts seeing some reps on offence.

I love seeing his family members in the stands cheering him on. Hopefully, more extended family and friends will show up for this one now that he's more likely to get a few carries.

[AngeloV]

I love seeing his family members in the stands cheering him on. Hopefully, more extended family and friends will show up for this one now that he's more likely to get a few carries.

Chatted with his parents at practice weeks back. Very nice family. You have to pull for someone like that.

[OV Argo]

Coxie had a couple of tough in-traffic catch and YACs in the preseason, he seems like a Rogers-type receiver, hope he gets a couple more thrown his way Saturday. I got a feeling Brissett might be more involved in the offence too, he’s been seeing more action lately and it’s time he started to step up more.

Very excited to see Adeboboye get some carries. He’s looked good every single time he’s touched the ball. That special teams tackle was phenomenal, he is an exceptional athlete, those massive thighs bring a lot of power. And rookie RBs need less coaching-up than any other rookies, so he’s ready to go. I think he could be special. We shall see.


Smart offences use all their weapons and feature lots of variety: ball spread around to all receivers (as opposed to loading up on one or two fave targets, who sometimes don't have the best hands); lots of ground game with at least a couple of backs with different styles used; deep passing - "can't go wrong when you go long" as Dunigan says; an H-back (can line up at either fullback or TE) deployed some. Lots of looks/things for the defence to think about and account for.

OTOH, dumb offences ...

[ArgofanIan]

Off topic... hard to get a beer in Liberty Villiage sometimes... found a place called "Something in the Water" in Liberty Village... they brew their own beer... they stressed it was unofficial... but they mentioned they brewed a beer in support of Our ARGOs... wasn't any line ups... if your going to the game today... just an FYI

["Issues"Mcgee]

Off topic... hard to get a beer in Liberty Villiage sometimes... found a place called "Something in the Water" in Liberty Village... they brew their own beer... they stressed it was unofficial... but they mentioned they brewed a beer in support of Our ARGOs... wasn't any line ups... if your going to the game today... just an FYI

Thanks for the intel! I will have to check it out in the Fall after the ex but I definitely will try it.

When we go in a group we usually go to Local and that place has great service but the line up is always huge.

[jerrym]

Poor coverage on Stamps first play from scrimmage resulting in an 80 yard gain.

[jerrym]

MBT off to a good start for a change going 10/12 for 119 yards.

[jerrym]

Argos up six at half time thanks partly to Bo's poor performance and partly the Argo D.

[jerrym]

Terrible throw by MBT on INT for a TD.

[kellynjk]

Was just going to say that I wasn't surprised that Calgary put Maier in for the second as Levi Mitchell looked so sloppy the first half, but then Maier just threw an interception (ha!). MBT looked good at the beginning of the game, but hasn't been very sharp the second half - let's see if he can do something now.

[Shatto]

Game lost in the trenches. Argos could not get any real pressure on the Calgary QB but Calgary put lots of pressure on Toronto's QB. If you can't win the line play, it is unlikely you will win.

[Ace]

Hate to say it, but McLeod was huge reason for the loss tonight.
Defence was solid and calgary benched Mitchell - you should win the game if that happens.

[jerrym]

Argos and MBT 33% in red zone, lowest in CFL, tells the story.

[OV Argo]

43 pass attempts by MBT nets 276 yards = wimpy.

Leake looks like he has some explosiveness - needs more carries; Ouellette is a good inside power runner.

O_line struggles in pass pro.

Shane Ray with a poor effort / whiff on the Logan TD run.

Argos lucky to be in the ultra mediocre East - to still have a chance at 1st place.

[jerrym]

Hate to say it, but McLeod was huge reason for the loss tonight.
Defence was solid and calgary benched Mitchell - you should win the game if that happens.

In case anyone hasn't said it, welcome to the somewhat leaky ship Argo.

[Stevoman]

The Good:
- Ouellette and Leake played very well in the backfield and Leake was also the Argos best returner this season.
- Bede is back (he had me worried earlier in the season).
- The D played excellent for most of the game and got some great turnovers.

The Bad:
- Red Zone offence is terrible!
- Dunigan kept saying the Argos were going around the side on short yardage because of a weakness that they saw. That might be true but I think the real reason is because they know they can never get it up the middle. But when you go to the well too often, you eventually get stuffed and that stop in the 4th quarter really hurt.
- MBT pick 6 was the difference. He continues to be a mystery. Some good throws and some awful throws.

The Good News
- Thankfully the East is still there for the taking but the Argos seem like a 6th or 7th place team. I really couldn't say who's better between the Argos, Riders and TiCats, right now and the Elks seem to be gaining ground.

[primetime31]

Good synopsis, Stevoman. Not exactly the type of performance that you would want to introduce new fans to (my son introduced six friends to live Argos football tonight).

My son had commented that the endzone crowd were clamoring for Chad Kelly to put be in at QB. I think that they have to start thinking of such strategies. The first half Argo offense was much more varied than that of the second half. This isn't the first time this season that this has happened.

The receiving corps missed Cam Phillips tonight as the only reliable receiver was DeVaris Daniels. They really need another two or three receivers to get more involved.

The defense played well enough to win the game.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I was going to go on a huge rant but I will just sum it up in two sentences.

I have had enough of MBT. He has no strengths, only weaknesses.

[kellynjk]

I was going to go on a huge rant but I will just sum it up in two sentences.

I have had enough of MBT. He has no strengths, only weaknesses.

Completely agree - as has been discussed on other game threads, MBT is incapable of playing a full game. When you consider how much more possession of the ball the Argos had tonight, it's crazy that they didn't win and why - because they march down the field 6 yards at a time, which usually ends with no points! In the second half, MBT was really inconsistent, overthrowing passes and the rest. I agree with Primetime31's son, I want to see more of Chad Kelly.

If the Argos continue playing like this they won't finish first, in fact I doubt they'll even make the playoffs!! I think both Hamilton and Montreal are likely to overtake the Argos in the standings in the East over the next few weeks.

[ArgoFan1]

Pretty drastic to say we lost because of MBT. I am willing to bet that he has been sacked more than any other quarterback in the league. He rarely gets times to throw. He had to throw several away tonight. He had two good passes dropped in the third quarter. He was smart enough to take the sack when they were in field goal range for their last field goal. At least he is not throwing up hail Marys as he did a few times earlier in the season.
I like him, but I do know that he is not a superstar, and the Argos will be in desperate need of a starting quarterback by next season. Can't see any coming by way of trade, so they need to get lucky, like B.C. did this season.

[dmont]

ugh................ UGH!!!!!

On the one hand, that one hurt. On the other, it was very predictable. I was texting with a few friends who were happy at halftime. I said "Nope, I'm nervous. Could have stepped on their necks in the first half but we didn't. We lose these games all the time."

Shout out to the DBs today, for the most part. They did their part and created lots of turnovers.

Tackling got weak in the second half. It drives me nuts seeing them go for those weak arm tackles.

I thought Oulette had a good game. Filled in as best he could and did everything they asked. Javon Leake had some of the best returns we've had all season, and looked good on offense except for a few miscues with Macbeth. I hope those get sorted the more they play together.

Some a couple key drops from Ambles and Daniel's. Those guys were good otherwise for most of the night but those two drops... hurt... so... much!

For the offense, I was in the stands so I really couldn't see what the problem was. If I had to guess, I would say the Oline was the biggest problem. Macbeth was getting pressured before anyone was open.

Mac's accuracy problems continued this week, and they actually seemed to get worse. Missed on a couple long balls where the receivers had managed to get some separation. What a god-awful offense in the second half.

The last party I'm going to chew out is... the crowd. I was so pissed when they started booing the offense DURING THE GAME when we were within THREE POINTS. Are you trying to get in our quarterbacks head and mess him up when the game is totally in reach?? That was some bull$hit. Boo your head off once the game is lost, but stay behind the team when the games hanging in the balance.

In terms of where to go from here... I have no idea. Defense played great most of the game, despite some softness in the second half. Specials were great on coverage and had some decent returns. It's the offense. They should all stand in a line and shoot themselves. Coaches included.

I couldn't even eat my feelings after the game because the food building was closed. I came home, put a pizza in the oven, and ate the whole thing. Now.... I'm going to fart myself to sleep.

[Will]

Got some things to get off my chest here. It's late and these are raw emotions written in the heat of the moment. Frustrated and disappointed.

The O-line is poor and I must ask the following questions (some of which Paul has raised):

1. If you knew Nicastro was going to miss a fair bit of the season then why have Lawrence playing what isn't believed to be his natural position? We never did get an explanation as to why that Speller person never reported in 2021.
2. Was Isiah Cage brought back too early, and if so why?
3. What did the coaching staff see in Tate?
4. Why weren't there more Americans brought in on the OL? This Appiah guy must be raw?

Mike Mitchell wrote that MBT has been sacked 15 or 16 times in the past 4 games. That's 72 sacks over an 18-game season and is depressingly bad. This brings us to the next topic, which is MBT himself. A statue in the pocket won't be able to succeed with this o-line and that is what MBT is at this stage. He needs a OL a la 1999 Ticats which only allowed 6 sacks to optimize his talent. We know Chad Kelly is more mobile, but can he make the right reads and throws? We really don't know the answer to that, but I'm more willing to have that discussion right now. Maybe they do got to start easing him slowly. The fact of this matter is that this team, in the last 4 games, has scored 37 second half points, and 14 of the points in the 28 point second half against Hamilton were defense and special teams so take that away and it is 23 points in 4 games (5.8), which is not good enough. The receiving corps is banged up (but it seems like that every year), and it's kept Brandon Banks in the lineup when he shouldn't be. Cam Phillips is out, Eric Rogers is out, Kurleigh Gittens has been relatively quiet the last couple of games and Coxie was playing his first game. The OL can't open holes for runners or protect their QB. MBT does deserve to share in the blame, that INT was back-breaking for sure. Boris kicked 4 field goals, 1 or 2 of those field goals go for touchdowns and Argos win the game, but an over reliance on Bede has been a problem for 1.5 seasons.

The Argos have signed two supposedly high-level pass rushers in the past two years, but neither have really produced. I don't think the interior of the line has been a problem. It's not as if the Argos can't get pressure, but I find they're either a second too late getting to the QB or they have trouble tracking down a QB once he's scrambled around a little bit. But, Stamps turned the ball over 4 or 5 times tonight and still came out with the W. This team does have to figure it out, I mean their games in hand are almost gone. They were 9-5 in 2021 but with a -ve PF:PA ratio. They weren't going to win the same # of squeakers that they did last year.

Two weeks in a row you could point to two distinguishable turning points (i) the decision to punt on 3rd and 1 and (ii) the pick-six this week, the Argos were not able to recover from either play.

[Will]

ugh................ UGH!!!!!

On the one hand, that one hurt. On the other, it was very predictable. I was texting with a few friends who were happy at halftime. I said "Nope, I'm nervous. Could have stepped on their necks in the first half but we didn't. We lose these games all the time."

Shout out to the DBs today, for the most part. They did their part and created lots of turnovers.

Tackling got weak in the second half. It drives me nuts seeing them go for those weak arm tackles.

I thought Oulette had a good game. Filled in as best he could and did everything they asked. Javon Leake had some of the best returns we've had all season, and looked good on offense except for a few miscues with Macbeth. I hope those get sorted the more they play together.

Some a couple key drops from Ambles and Daniel's. Those guys were good otherwise for most of the night but those two drops... hurt... so... much!

For the offense, I was in the stands so I really couldn't see what the problem was. If I had to guess, I would say the Oline was the biggest problem. Macbeth was getting pressured before anyone was open.

Mac's accuracy problems continued this week, and they actually seemed to get worse. Missed on a couple long balls where the receivers had managed to get some separation. What a god-awful offense in the second half.

The last party I'm going to chew out is... the crowd. I was so pissed when they started booing the offense DURING THE GAME when we were within THREE POINTS. Are you trying to get in our quarterbacks head and mess him up when the game is totally in reach?? That was some bull$hit. Boo your head off once the game is lost, but stay behind the team when the games hanging in the balance.

In terms of where to go from here... I have no idea. Defense played great most of the game, despite some softness in the second half. Specials were great on coverage and had some decent returns. It's the offense. They should all stand in a line and shoot themselves. Coaches included.

I couldn't even eat my feelings after the game because the food building was closed. I came home, put a pizza in the oven, and ate the whole thing. Now.... I'm going to fart myself to sleep.

What an ending to your post LOL!

I waited for 30 minutes in a line for Tiny Tom's. It wasn't a well run system because you ordered & paid at the same time (at the far end of the trailer), flow might have been better had they had the order & pay parts separate.

[Rich]

We know Chad Kelly is more mobile, but can he make the right reads and throws?

Can MBT make the right reads and throws? Watch the post game presser, Dinwiddie said MBT wasn’t finding open guys and didn’t “give our guys a chance to catch the ball”. And he also singled out his 1) overthrow and 2) underthrow of Coxie on long balls. Just another Groundhog Day at the office for Dinwiddie.

So what’s he gonna do about it? Does he have the balls of Dave Dickinson, who tonight pulled a 2-time GC Champ QB because his accuracy and mobility problems were hurting his club? At some point you gotta say enough’s enough. When does Dinwiddie reach HIS breaking point?

MBT may be the 3rd best QB in the League but the gap between him and the top 2 is huge, and let’s be honest after four years it’s not likely to get much smaller. And maybe this is a problem for a franchise with aspirations of on-field dominance. If they’re gonna run with the big dogs maybe they need to bring their QB play to a higher level.

We have no idea if Chad Kelly could become a top-echelon CFL QB. But we know for sure MBT won’t. We’re 4-5 at the halfway point of the season, I think it’s time to make the move. If it doesn’t work out at least we’re not just watching the same damn movie over and over like we are now.

[gilthethrill]

Looking at boxscores around the CFL I am noticing more receivers averaging very few yards per catch. Last night the only receiver for the Argos who averaged more than 10 yards a catch was Davarus Daniels. Seems like the pass game now is really just a “Long Handoff”. How can you expect your offense to be successful when Kurleigh Gittens averages 6.8 YPC?
MBT throws his first INT in 167 attempts and off course it was the game winning TD. Dinwiddie went to the well once too often with Kelly going vertically on 2nd and short. Everyone knew Calgary would be waiting for that play. How do you lose yards on a QB sneak for crying out loud??

Really pissed right now but of course I will be in front of the TV Friday night hoping for a victory over Hamilton. I question my sanity.

[paulwoods13]

As expected, there are more calls here for MBT to be replaced than there are lamenting either the pathetic state of the o-line or the terrible offensive play-calling. I have an idea, instead of benching MBT, why don't we bench the three or four o-linemen who aren't doing their jobs? Oh yeah, we can't because we have no one trustworthy behind them. But hey, at least we dialled up a sweep play on short yardage that worked three times in a row, so of course we just had to try it a fourth time.

[Will]

As expected, there are more calls here for MBT to be replaced than there are lamenting either the pathetic state of the o-line or the terrible offensive play-calling. I have an idea, instead of benching MBT, why don't we bench the three or four o-linemen who aren't doing their jobs? Oh yeah, we can't because we have no one trustworthy behind them. But hey, at least we dialled up a sweep play on short yardage that worked three times in a row, so of course we just had to try it a fourth time.

Hey I wrote 4 questions about the offensive line.

[paulwoods13]

Hey I wrote 4 questions about the offensive line.

Yes, you did. (All of them with depressing answers.) But most of the posts, predictably, are variations of "MBT sucks/we want Kelly."

[OV Argo]

As expected, there are more calls here for MBT to be replaced than there are lamenting either the pathetic state of the o-line or the terrible offensive play-calling. I have an idea, instead of benching MBT, why don't we bench the three or four o-linemen who aren't doing their jobs? Oh yeah, we can't because we have no one trustworthy behind them. But hey, at least we dialled up a sweep play on short yardage that worked three times in a row, so of course we just had to try it a fourth time.

The HC can be fired though; guy is in way over his head, and a few seasons sniffing cry-baby Dickinson's butt in Calgary does not qualify you for a Canadian pro football HC job; or at least, it shouldn't.

[paulwoods13]

The HC can be fired though; guy is in way over his head, and a few seasons sniffing cry-baby Dickinson's butt in Calgary does not qualify you for a Canadian pro football HC job; or at least, it shouldn't.

IMO Dinwiddie is on very shaky ground at this point. He has made some questionable decisions in personnel, play calling and game management. He seems to be playing not to lose rather than aggressively trying to win. I sense he might be feeling heat and worried about losing his job. I doubt we will see a coaching change during the season, but if the team does not improve its performance in the second half of the season and at minimum get back to the Eastern Final, I would be very surprised to see him back next year.

There is also a larger problem, IMO -- we do not have the sort of front-office structure that can solve the types of problems we have had this year. Who doesn't love Pinball, but I really doubt he is actively involved in personnel decisions (including who stays and who goes during camp), and I'm almost certain he is not out personally beating the bushes for new talent to fill roster holes. In theory Jim Barker is taking on the role held in recent years by Popp and Murphy, but he hasn't had a lead role in personnel recruitment anywhere for six-plus years. Vince Magri is a tremendous judge of incoming NAT talent, and someone whose continued development needs to be nurtured and supported. But is he able at this stage of his career to hang around NFL camps and find guys who could be brought up here and contribute? Maybe, but I don't think we have any such evidence yet.

[argotom]

After being away for several weeks, watching yesterday's fiasco I note how nothing has changed and perhaps even gotten worse.
Since ouf D is relatively stable, the real issue remains the offense which on the basis of the the leader being the QB is in fact offensive.
The performance yesterday of MBT, save and except the games I missed, based on the games that I watched was the worst.
I have said it before like some here, he was never a legitimate first stringer and to think management continues to hitch our wagon on this QB, speaks to the quality of the coaching staff and upper echelon.
We all love Pinball and his staff, but they are MIA here.
Meanwhile, nothing has also changed with Dinwiddie and he should be immediately shown the door.
The man has no imagination in the play calling and again yesterday was heavily outcoached by Dave Dickenson.
Let's review, Dave had enough of the pathetic performance of BLM and had no reservation in pulling him after the first half.
Dinwiddie again remains stubborn in going with MBT for the entire game, this despite clear evidence he did not have it and Chad Kelly should have been inserted in the beginning of the second half.
Major changes are required on the playing side as to save what little relevancy we have left in this marketplace.

[AngeloV]

Needless to say, a very disappointing result last night. Wasted effort of D creating turnovers, and an actually good performance from the ST's.

I know everyone says that I am MBT's biggest defender, but the offence as a whole was not good. Starting up front where most games are won and lost. Did MBT miss some receivers? Sure, and the pick 6 was the major turning point in the game. But there were others. Very untimely fumble by Oulette on what was looking like a great drive. Bad drop by Davaris Daniels over the middle and he had some serious running room. Bad drop by Ambles on the first play of the 2nd half. MBT definitely underthrew Coxie on the one deep ball towards the north endzone, but the deep one towards the south endzone was on Coxie. He slowed down and then couldn't re-accelerate to catch up to the ball. I'll give him a pass being his first real action.

I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but Geez..get Banks the F off this team. He showed his immaturity again after MBT scrambled for 6 yards, freaking out on the way back to the sidelines. WORST FA SIGNING EVER. I would be making a call to one of the released receivers from TC and get him out of here.

The calls for MBT's head are ridiculous IMO, but having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing what Kelly can do. Maybe Dinwiddie will actually move the pocket to help his poor line if he had Kelly in there. Just be prepared for 2 or 3 picks if he starts.

I also think Dinwiddie needs to lose his OC hat. Let Pete Costanza take over the role for the rest of the year and concentrate on being a HC. It's no secret that the 2 worst offences in the league have the HC doing double duty as OC.

[paulwoods13]

I know everyone says that I am MBT's biggest defender, but the offence as a whole was not good. Starting up front where most games are won and lost. Did MBT miss some receivers? Sure, and the pick 6 was the major turning point in the game. But there were others. Very untimely fumble by Oulette on what was looking like a great drive. Bad drop by Davaris Daniels over the middle and he had some serious running room. Bad drop by Ambles on the first play of the 2nd half. MBT definitely underthrew Coxie on the one deep ball towards the north endzone, but the deep one towards the south endzone was on Coxie. He slowed down and then couldn't re-accelerate to catch up to the ball. I'll give him a pass being his first real action.

All of this is true. MBT did miss some passes, but he was not helped by his receivers, who in addition to dropping passes (and fumbling, in Ouellette's case) had a hell of a time getting open on a lot of patterns. I have to think that is mostly on the coaching. I think Daniels would have scored had he caught the one he dropped.


The calls for MBT's head are ridiculous IMO, but having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing what Kelly can do. Maybe Dinwiddie will actually move the pocket to help his poor line if he had Kelly in there. Just be prepared for 2 or 3 picks if he starts.


The pocket could be moved for MBT, too, but the only times he got outside were attempts to avoid another hellacious pass rush. It's vexing that Dinwiddie seems to understand how little he has to work with on the o-line, and yet can't make adjustments that might counter its weakness. The fact defences know we can't run block sure isn't helping.

[ArgoRavi]

The last party I'm going to chew out is... the crowd. I was so pissed when they started booing the offense DURING THE GAME when we were within THREE POINTS. Are you trying to get in our quarterbacks head and mess him up when the game is totally in reach?? That was some bull$hit. Boo your head off once the game is lost, but stay behind the team when the games hanging in the balance.


This comment stood out for me. On the X's and Argos post-game podcast, Ben and JB said that the Calgary reporters in the press box were surprised to hear this booing with the Argos ahead 19-10 at the time.

The positives last night were that the defence played very well - only allowed 16 points on the evening which should be enough to win - and the special teams, including the return game, were excellent.

I don't have any easy answers about the offence. Dinwiddie needs to look at some of his decision-making offensively and the Argos need to do something different in order to score TDs instead of FGs. There's no way that I want to see MBT replaced as the starter and he doesn't deserve to be replaced but I am open to some kind of expanded role for Kelly - perhaps have a package for him and put him in with that package as other teams have done in the recent past to keep defences off-balance; maybe that could take some pressure off the o-line as well.

The Argos are still in first place at 4-5 and all is not that bleak but they need to find a way to score TDs instead of FGs. That continues to be the biggest problem plaguing them although I realize there are a bunch of issues contributing to that. MBT though, as Paul so well pointed out on Twitter this morning, is the least of those issues.

[ArgoRavi]

We never did get an explanation as to why that Speller person never reported in 2021.

We never get an explanation for anything today but if I were to take a guess, Speller did what many did during this pandemic and re-evaluated what they really wanted out of life. A bad break for the Argos but what can you do?

[Argo57]

Another frustrating loss last night, in truth if this team had any “killer instinct” they would be sitting pretty miles ahead in the Eastern Division.
The O-Line is terrible plain and simple, they won’t contend until it gets fixed (if that is even possible).
The D actually had a pretty solid game although the pass rush was nothing to brag about.
Ja’Gared Davis has made a few nice plays this season but overall he hasn’t played close to the level he displayed in Hamilton, Shane Ray seems invisible much of the time as well.
Although I often defend MBT this team must start looking to develop another QB which will be made difficult with a crappy O-Line, Chad Kelly may in fact be that guy.
Paul Woods has correctly brought up a point that AV and I were discussing earlier today, have all of their contacts down south dried up, one of Jim Barkers strengths in the past was his ability to recruit talent from down south, surely there has to be some O linemen available that can help?
Dinwiddie needs to let another coach run the offence during games, he is way to predictable at this point.
If this season goes nowhere as it very well could then Dinwiddie will probably be gone and it will be back to square one.

[paulwoods13]

Ja’Gared Davis has made a few nice plays this season but overall he hasn’t played close to the level he displayed in Hamilton, Shane Ray seems invisible much of the time as well.

Paul Woods has correctly brought up a point that AV and I were discussing earlier today, have all of their contacts down south dried up, one of Jim Barkers strengths in the past was his ability to recruit talent from down south, surely there has to be some O linemen available that can help?


Davjs pulled himself out of the game during the fourth quarter. He initially just seemed pissed off, but eventually he had them looking at one of his legs. I wouldn't be surprised if he is out for a while. It was hilarious, in an extremely annoying kind of way, to watch Shane Ray try to get to the bench for a breather a few plays later, only to be told he had to stay out there because there was no other defensive end available to spell him. Fortunately we still have Ealy, er, Polite, er, . . . grrr.

I doubt we will see any useable offensive tackles coming up here any time soon. Apart from QB, it is probably the scarcest commodity in football these days. And since NFL teams can now keep 70 men on the active and practice rosters, plus injury lists, and the XFL and USFL are also looking to sign guys, the days of excellent cuts coming north after Labour Day are basically gone.

[Argo57]

Davjs pulled himself out of the game during the fourth quarter. He initially just seemed pissed off, but eventually he had them looking at one of his legs. I wouldn't be surprised if he is out for a while. It was hilarious, in an extremely annoying kind of way, to watch Shane Ray try to get to the bench for a breather a few plays later, only to be told he had to stay out there because there was no other defensive end available to spell him. Fortunately we still have Ealy, er, Polite, er, . . . grrr.

I doubt we will see any useable offensive tackles coming up here any time soon. Apart from QB, it is probably the scarcest commodity in football these days. And since NFL teams can now keep 70 men on the active and practice rosters, plus injury lists, and the XFL and USFL are also looking to sign guys, the days of excellent cuts coming north after Labour Day are basically gone.

Doesn’t bode well for the quality of play in the CFL moving forward.

[Rich]

I’m gratified to see we have a consensus here, even among MBT’s most ardent supporters, that Chad Kelly needs to see at least SOME action. A couple of extra picks may be an acceptable price to pay for a few key sacks avoided and a few key QB rushes gained, not to mention a few more passes on target.

[OV Argo]

O-line play taking a lot of heat in a lot of CFL circles these days; maybe rightfully so in some cases, but IMO the factor of lame, predictable, boring, redundant CFL offensive coaching & play-calling is a huge part of this; blame the O-line "talent" is easier I guess, but when defences know they can just tee off in pass rush and don't have to worry about much variety in play-calling or offensive looks and formations, it makes it easy on them and tough on the O-line. Let's see a CFL OC let his O-line be aggressive and road grade hard with lots of varied ground plays from the start of the game, AND have lots of looks on offence (QB roll outs, move the pocket, QB designed run plays), and see this fail with the O-line looking bad. Same old QB in shot-gun and having to hold on to the ball long and make reads is fine for some; that as your only offence = dumb AND boring/predictable

[Stevoman]

Doesn’t bode well for the quality of play in the CFL moving forward.

This is my biggest concern. There are several middle of the pack teams this year. I don't care that scoring is up from last year, there are not that many good teams and even fewer with good QB's and it is impacting the entertainment value of the game.

Aside from Winnipeg (a good O-line and QB) and BC (a good QB and receivers) the rest of the league is all kind of in the same category in terms of talent and it's not good enough.

[Argo57]

This is my biggest concern. There are several middle of the pack teams this year. I don't care that scoring is up from last year, there are not that many good teams and even fewer with good QB's and it is impacting the entertainment value of the game.

Aside from Winnipeg (a good O-line and QB) and BC (a good QB and receivers) the rest of the league is all kind of in the same category in terms of talent and it's not good enough.

I suspect if you go the fan forum for most CFL teams the narrative will be very familiar, boring predictable offence, poor O-Line play and mediocre play at quarterback.
Can’t say I disagree TBH.

[ArgoGabe22]

I just hope Chad Kelly is willing to stay and work his way up (if possible) and doesn't unexpectedly retire at the end of the season like some backups end up doing. He's still young and a decent QB prospect and I hope he sees more time on the field in either some role or the MBT leash gets shorter.

[Argo57]

I just hope Chad Kelly is willing to stay and work his way up (if possible) and doesn't unexpectedly retire at the end of the season like some backups end up doing. He's still young and a decent QB prospect and I hope he sees more time on the field in either some role or the MBT leash gets shorter.

Good point, Kelly won’t sit around forever making little money.
Argos aren’t exactly flush with QB prospects and must see how he performs in game situations.

[paulwoods13]

I don't care that scoring is up from last year, there are not that many good teams and even fewer with good QB's and it is impacting the entertainment value of the game. .

This trend to reduced entertainment value has been evident for a few years. The changes to the rules this year were intended to jazz up the game. Scoring is up from last year's absurdly low 38.2 points per game, but only to where it was in 2011 (50.3 then, 50.0 so far this year). Of far greater concern, to me at least, is the continuing reduction in the number of offensive plays. This year we are so far getting 107.8 offensive plays per game: 64.9 passes, 38.2 rushes and 4.7 sacks. Last year we got 108.1 offensive plays per game, so we are actually down slightly. As I have written before, in 1991 (IMO the high-water mark for entertainment value), there were 125.8 plays per game. So we have reduced the opportunities to see teams do something offensively by 14 per cent compared with 30 years ago. Changes to clock and substitution rules could address this, but have not been made and I sense no desire around the league to do it. We're fortunate that there have been a fair number of close games this year (20 out of 43 within seven points), making for a fair number of exciting finishes. But are fans as consistently entertained as they were 30 years ago? Not in my opinion.

[Nob]

Paul raises some great points about the entertainment value.

I hear a lot of people saying “why doesn’t Toronto support the Argos?”, but the bigger question should be “why would people support the Argos?” The entertainment value isn’t the same as it used to be. People want to see points. Action. Great plays. What we get is predictable offences that defences have figured out (rush 3, drop 9 and blanket the field, generally).

Plus the Argos are brutal at updating their web site. Not all of us can go to practice. At least provide info on the website or app (don’t get me going on that one….) to keep out of town fans engaged.

I watched last night’s game this afternoon. Skipped through the huddles, and dead ball time. The actual game play was not entertaining. I later read that people were upset that the Argos were apparently being booed while in the lead. Why can’t people, who pay good money and invest time, boo a product that is sub-standard? We are frustrated - this is not where this team should be at this point in the season with the talent they have (injuries or not - they have good depth).

Being a fan is a two-way street. The Argos need to engage us. Not just expect us to be there all the time. Those that were there all the time are declining.

In sports you sell entertainment (generally winning, but not always), or hope. I’m not sure that the Argos provide either.

[argolio]

That was a very frustrating 2nd half.

[kellynjk]

So interesting what Paul says about the entertainment value of the Argos these days. I was talking to my older brother today about the Argos and how they just don't have the support in the city they once had and he said basically the same things - that the Argos used to field much better teams that were exciting to watch. He talked about the teams they had in the 1980s and 1990s and I remember a lot of those games and what entertainment value they offered. They just don't offer the fans that these days. And I agree you can't expect fans to show up, to watch a mediocre team play a boring game.

They are a lot of gaps in this team right now and they should shake things up abit. I would like to see them give Chad Kelly more playing time, at least he can scramble and might help mix things up abit and make the offence less predictable. But it is interesting what people are saying about who is scouting for future talent, because I think the Argos are going to need to do some serious rebuilding after this season to field any kind of decent team next year.

[ArgoRavi]

It's interesting to see such negativity on here about the entertainment value of the games this year which is very much the opposite to what I have been seeing on Twitter. I think that the games this year have, by and large, been quite entertaining and compelling. I think we are in for a great second half of the season around the league.

[AngeloV]

It's interesting to see such negativity on here about the entertainment value of the games this year which is very much the opposite to what I have been seeing on Twitter. I think that the games this year have, by and large, been quite entertaining and compelling. I think we are in for a great second half of the season around the league.

I agree Ravi. I’ve been going to games sine I was a kid in the late 70’s. To me, the game is every bit as entertaining now as it was then, if not more so. The only difference is that in the late 70’s early 80’s they had much bigger crowds. You can’t tell me that the Tony Adams/Mark Jackson led teams were more entertaining than what we see now. And as for success bringing in crowds, I seem to recall a few crowds of 17k when Doug Flutie was the QB of arguably the best teams the Argos have ever had. I agree with Paul on the clock and number of ofFensive snaps per game. Unfortunately it’s because CFL has much more commercials today than they did in the old days, and TV wants the games to be over in 3 hours, thus clock moves more than it used to. But I do not buy the garbage that the games are less entertaining. People that say that aren’t in the stadium I still get a huge adrenaline rush for every play of every game.

I also would like to add, in the top of our section on Saturday, there were a lot of young fans. They were having a blast at the game. I don’t think young people are anti-CFL. I just don’t think the league and specifically the Argos work hard enough to get them out to games. They were all likely casual fans just looking to have a good time, and they did. You need to get casual fans like this to succeed.

[ArgofanIan]

I gave my Buddy and his family tickets for this game. He was casual fan and his family never really heard of CFL. He was raving about how great the game was and that they had a great time. Wants to go back to other game. I find if people go to a game and make their own mid up. Doesn't take much for them to get hooked. These EX games are good way to expose new fans. He actually got a shirt which also was nice when they do these shirt tosses...

[kellynjk]

It's interesting to see such negativity on here about the entertainment value of the games this year which is very much the opposite to what I have been seeing on Twitter. I think that the games this year have, by and large, been quite entertaining and compelling. I think we are in for a great second half of the season around the league.

Well the games between the western team have been very exciting to watch this season, the Argo games not so much!!!

[argolio]

Seems like there have been fewer blowouts than the typical season. Unfortunately the West has managed to win almost every close East-West game.

[OV Argo]

The absolutely horrid schedule this season with so many back to back games and teams playing each other several times in short order does not help matters IMO - boring, lack of variety that turns fans off or creates a stale outlook; the only IMO back to back games in a CFL season should be the Labour Day affairs with the tradition maintained. After that - teams facing each other should be spread out as far as possible - you then get to see teams evolve and different match-ups at much different points of the season.

THE CFL needs way better brains/leadership; Ambrosia's time has been a joke/disaster - he should be punted wayyyyy far away from the league.

[jerrym]

The absolutely horrid schedule this season with so many back to back games and teams playing each other several times in short order does not help matters IMO - boring, lack of variety that turns fans off or creates a stale outlook; the only IMO back to back games in a CFL season should be the Labour Day affairs with the tradition maintained. After that - teams facing each other should be spread out as far as possible - you then get to see teams evolve and different match-ups at much different points of the season.

THE CFL needs way better brains/leadership; Ambrosia's time has been a joke/disaster - he should be punted wayyyyy far away from the league.

I fully agree.

["Issues"Mcgee]

The absolutely horrid schedule this season with so many back to back games and teams playing each other several times in short order does not help matters IMO - boring, lack of variety that turns fans off or creates a stale outlook; the only IMO back to back games in a CFL season should be the Labour Day affairs with the tradition maintained. After that - teams facing each other should be spread out as far as possible - you then get to see teams evolve and different match-ups at much different points of the season.

THE CFL needs way better brains/leadership; Ambrosia's time has been a joke/disaster - he should be punted wayyyyy far away from the league.

Strictly speaking for the Argos, this has been one of the best scheduled seasons in the past 10 years. I don't care how many times we play the Ticats in a row. Remember when we were kicked out of our own barn?

[argolio]

Adding to the schedule complaints, four home games in less than a month (Jul 31-Aug 26) and then six weeks until the next one is pretty stupid. And I think one Ex game per year is enough going forward.

We have the same problem as before: we're not the primary stadium tenant. When you get treated like garbage for decades, maybe we shouldn't be that surprised over the current state of things.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Adding to the schedule complaints, four home games in less than a month (Jul 31-Aug 26) and then six weeks until the next one is pretty stupid. And I think one Ex game per year is enough going forward.

We have the same problem as before: we're not the primary stadium tenant. When you get treated like garbage for decades, maybe we shouldn't be that surprised over the current state of things.

Are you out of your mind!? Canadian Football is happening while thousands of people are around for the EX! There is no better way to promote the Argos.

There were crowds around the stadium trying to look for the whole game.

[ArgoZ]

Are you out of your mind!? Canadian Football is happening while thousands of people are around for the EX! There is no better way to promote the Argos.

There were crowds around the stadium trying to look for the whole game.

Every single person looking through the fence or from the food building had no idea there was a game. Funny that if they knew, they could have paid less to watch the Argos, than only attend the EX. It felt like a nice crowd even though short of 13k. Imagine if they actually promoted it and we got even a few extra thousand. Would have been awesome.

[paulwoods13]

The schedule is very bad from a competitive standpoint: six of the last eight games are on the road. It makes sense to have two home games during the Ex, but not to use up seven of our nine home games by the end of August. Seems the team believes the best chance to bring in fans is the summer; the results to date are not encouraging in that regard.

[AngeloV]

Are you out of your mind!? Canadian Football is happening while thousands of people are around for the EX! There is no better way to promote the Argos.

There were crowds around the stadium trying to look for the whole game.

Other than the actual game being played, how much did the Argos promote football around the grounds while the game was going on? That is an opportunity that they had no interest in investing minimal dollars to. The EX games are great, But I can also see the overkill. A lot of fans like to tailgate before the game. I personally do not, but that's 2 games with no tailgating because of the EX, Some people like to arrive and just walk into the stadium without all the added congestion the EX brings. No effect on me. Friday will be my 3rd event during the EX,

[argotom]

Are you out of your mind!? Canadian Football is happening while thousands of people are around for the EX! There is no better way to promote the Argos.

There were crowds around the stadium trying to look for the whole game.

You are right about that.
Which got me to think, if there were Argo personnel around the stadium and the grounds with a ton of tickets in hand say for a flat $5 bucks to watch in the upper empty stands.
How many people could they attract I wonder?? Wouldn't even one new fan be worth it, why not try for the next game......

[argolio]

Are you out of your mind!? Canadian Football is happening while thousands of people are around for the EX! There is no better way to promote the Argos.

There were crowds around the stadium trying to look for the whole game.Non-paying customers -- that's exactly what we need.

[AngeloV]

Non-paying customers -- that's exactly what we need.

I have no issue with non paying customers. In fact, I am an advocate of giving out comp’d tickets. But people standing outside the stadium trying to sneak a peak, does nothing for the team.

[ArgoRavi]

The schedule is very bad from a competitive standpoint: six of the last eight games are on the road. It makes sense to have two home games during the Ex, but not to use up seven of our nine home games by the end of August. Seems the team believes the best chance to bring in fans is the summer; the results to date are not encouraging in that regard.

I would add that one of those home games was the game in Nova Scotia which really was a road game for the Argos.

[ArgoFan1]

This season's Argo schedule is pure crap. Too many games against Hamilton in a small amount of time. They put Hamilton here an extra game this season and we do not see Edmonton at all, and with the home game moved earlier, no visit by Saskatchewan either. This upcoming stretch means no games here in September. By the time they play again, they may be out of the picture completely and no one will be interested in attending as a casual fan. One CNE game is enough for me, since I prefer to drive to the games and always take someone to fill my second seat. Hard to get someone to go if we have to take the train and then hope they are interested in anything at the CNE. This past game, we just got there in time for the game only. It would be much better if they had an afternoon game during the CNE, because after the game, people can wander about with no deadline , and perhaps catch one of the concerts, which all took place during the game.

[Argo57]

Hopefully we actually get our full compliment of home games next season, doesn’t sound the expansion to the Maritimes will be happening in the near future (or happening at all).
Time for another eastern team to suck it up and play the Touchdown Atlantic game.

[AngeloV]

Hopefully we actually get our full compliment of home games next season, doesn’t sound the expansion to the Maritimes will be happening in the near future (or happening at all).
Time for another eastern team to suck it up and play the Touchdown Atlantic game.

It will always be the Argos, unless miraculously our crowds reach the 20k mark on a regular basis.

[Argo57]

It will always be the Argos, unless miraculously our crowds reach the 20k mark on a regular basis.

Oh I know, sucks to be us sometimes.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Thanks to the EX, I was able to get extra butts in the seats for tomorrow's game.