2022-2023 Offseason Hopes and Transactions

[jerrym]

There are rumours that MBT will retire. Obviously, the Argos need him back.

Andrew Harris and AJ Ouellette formed a dynamic duo when playing together on game day, and added a further dimension occasionally when they appeared in the backfield at the same time. There are also rumours that Harris may retire, heightened by his comment that both his 14 year old daughter, who is in Winnipeg, and him miss each other terribly. Having moved at age 13 I know how much such changes can affect one at a time when you are just discovering who you are. Hopefully Harris still wants to play and the two of them can continue to spell each other off as they did in the playoff run.

[Will]

This will be the off-season transaction thread.

Posters should use their own judgment, for example, if MBT does retire then it should probably have its own thread instead of being posted n here.

[OV Argo]

Love to see Harris play another season if he is into it. But if not ...

Ouellette returns; Adeboboye gets some work + the Argos draft explosive Western RB Keon Edwards (Toronto guy i think) and the running game could be outstanding.

[ArgoGabe22]

Is a trade even a possibility? If the Argos go after and sign Bo, there is no chance they keep Kelly who would want to start given the chance.

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[RB957]

Is a trade even a possibility? If the Argos go after and sign Bo, there is no chance they keep Kelly who would want to start given the chance.

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No way Fajardo re-signs in Saskatchewan.

I don't think any team would have confidence making Dane Evans an undisputed #1. He has shown great ability, but as others have posted, he gets way too emotional on the field and I don't he has what it takes to shoulder everything that a #1 QB has to endure. BUT.... he would be a great veteran addition as a second QB and would have no issue, if the price was right, with the Argos signing him in that capacity.

I don't think Argos would trade Kelly right now.<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.644279d1635fd969e87af94a98bd232b.htm l?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argofans.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

[AngeloV]

Naylor already admitted this is all hypothetical. Just asking what Riders fans would like.

[Will]

Naylor already admitted this is all hypothetical. Just asking what Riders fans would like.

Bit of a troll job by Naylor by not including Bo as an option.

[AngeloV]

Bit of a troll job by Naylor by not including Bo as an option.

Good point, but he has also been on record as believing Hamilton will sign Bo. But you’re right, sinc it’s hypothetical, he should have included him.

[jerrym]

One free agent signing I see as a must is Robbie Smith, a Canadian who has shown he can be a starter at a position where you don't usually see Canadians.

[gilthethrill]

Would like to see the Argos get new, completely finished uniforms.

[Argo57]

Would like to see the Argos get new, completely finished uniforms.

Great point, a total revamp needed.

[gilthethrill]

Great point, a total revamp needed.

You being a resident of the Region of Hamilton, I want to offer my sincere condolences on the temporary loss of Your Hamilton Honey Badgers to the city of Brampton.

[Argo57]

You being a resident of the Region of Hamilton, I want to offer my sincere condolences on the temporary loss of Your Hamilton Honey Badgers to the city of Brampton.

That’s ok, there is a new lacrosse team now playing in Hamilton.

[AngeloV]

That’s ok, there is a new lacrosse team now playing in Hamilton.

Lacrosse bores the hell out of me.

[Will]

Lacrosse bores the hell out of me.

Me too and I don't know why.

[Will]

You being a resident of the Region of Hamilton, I want to offer my sincere condolences on the temporary loss of Your Hamilton Honey Badgers to the city of Brampton.

I heard it's permanent.

[Argo57]

Lacrosse bores the hell out of me.

The last Rock game we attended was in 2012 when Jim Barker, Jason Pottinger and Adriano Belli appeared with the Grey Cup.
We always enjoyed Rock games, to each their own.

[AngeloV]

The last Rock game we attended was in 2012 when Jim Barker, Jason Pottinger and Adriano Belli appeared with the Grey Cup.
We always enjoyed Rock games, to each their own.

Yes. Just me being me. I went to a game in the 90's at MLG. My friends are huge lacrosse fans having played it when they were younger. I just couldn't get into it.

[Argo57]

Yes. Just me being me. I went to a game in the 90's at MLG. My friends are huge lacrosse fans having played it when they were younger. I just couldn't get into it.

My son (Eric) wanted to play lacrosse so we took him to a Rock game to show him what it was all about, half way through the game he filed his retirement papers, lol.

[paulwoods13]

This is enough to strike fear into the hearts of Argo fans: Farhan reports that Corey Mace is on the shortlist of three for Ott's head coaching job. I would HATE to lose Mace, who did an absolutely superb job for us this year. I assume he's probably not the leading candidate (Mark Washington and Bob Dyce are the others) but still . . .

[Argo57]

This is enough to strike fear into the hearts of Argo fans: Farhan reports that Corey Mace is on the shortlist of three for Ott's head coaching job. I would HATE to lose Mace, who did an absolutely superb job for us this year. I assume he's probably not the leading candidate (Mark Washington and Bob Dyce are the others) but still . . .

Call Mike Archer immediately!

[ArgoRavi]

Call Mike Archer immediately!

Or Casey Creehan!

[RB957]

This is enough to strike fear into the hearts of Argo fans: Farhan reports that Corey Mace is on the shortlist of three for Ott's head coaching job. I would HATE to lose Mace, who did an absolutely superb job for us this year. I assume he's probably not the leading candidate (Mark Washington and Bob Dyce are the others) but still . . .

I saw this as well and had the same reaction... hope he has a lousy interview! Of the three, I believe he has the least amount of time as a co-ordinator, so that might be a disadvantage. Also, I would think that Bob Dyce has the inside track, but Ottawa has to do their due diligence. I would hate to lose Mace as our DC and hope that he would like to stick around with Dinwiddie and build a bit of a legacy. It was reported somewhere that Buck Pierce was approached as well to be interviewed but declined. I don't mind the fact Mace is doing the interview, but I hope it doesn't pan out.

[RB957]

Call Mike Archer immediately!


Or Casey Creehan!

Or Corey Chamblin!

[Will]

This is enough to strike fear into the hearts of Argo fans: Farhan reports that Corey Mace is on the shortlist of three for Ott's head coaching job. I would HATE to lose Mace, who did an absolutely superb job for us this year. I assume he's probably not the leading candidate (Mark Washington and Bob Dyce are the others) but still . . .

It is evitable that your coordinators are going to receive interest after a championship season. It's how you replace those coordinators if they get the job.

I recall that Chamblin resigned after the 2017 season due to personal reasons. Trestman promoted Mike Archer who was already on the staff, and the 2018 defense was not up to the task.

[Argo57]

Or Casey Creehan!

LOL Ravi.

[Argo57]

I saw this as well and had the same reaction... hope he has a lousy interview! Of the three, I believe he has the least amount of time as a co-ordinator, so that might be a disadvantage. Also, I would think that Bob Dyce has the inside track, but Ottawa has to do their due diligence. I would hate to lose Mace as our DC and hope that he would like to stick around with Dinwiddie and build a bit of a legacy. It was reported somewhere that Buck Pierce was approached as well to be interviewed but declined. I don't mind the fact Mace is doing the interview, but I hope it doesn't pan out.

Selfishly I hope he stays in Toronto but you like to see good coaches that have paid their dues advance themselves.

[ArgoRavi]

Or Corey Chamblin!

Chamblin was a real mixed bag as the defence was quite good when the Argos won the Grey Cup in 2017 with him as defensive coordinator but it was terrible in 2019 when he came back as head coach.

[AngeloV]

Selfishly I hope he stays in Toronto but you like to see good coaches that have paid their dues advance themselves.

My thoughts exactly.

[cfl-cis fan]

Chamblin was a real mixed bag as the defence was quite good when the Argos won the Grey Cup in 2017 with him as defensive coordinator but it was terrible in 2019 when he came back as head coach.

For sure this also had to do with his staff (OC was terrible)

["Issues"Mcgee]

Pending free agent QB Bo Levi Mitchell: ‘I want to go somewhere that cares about football’

https://3downnation.com/2022/12/01/pending-free-agent-qb-bo-levi-mitchell-i-want-to-go-somewhere-that-cares-about-football/

The angle of this article could be nothing more than yet another underhanded shot at the Argos from our friends at 3DN but I believe the Argos don't need Bo and I consider this a positive development.

[Scooter McCray]

Argonaut fans are the best. In a city where it's media and its owner ignore the team and have done so for decades 21,000 fans still found their way to the Eastern Final. That is remarkable. If I was the owner and management team or a prospective owner, I would look at that and see nothing but massive upside and opportunity to build enterprise value.

[Argo57]

Pending free agent QB Bo Levi Mitchell: ‘I want to go somewhere that cares about football’

https://3downnation.com/2022/12/01/pending-free-agent-qb-bo-levi-mitchell-i-want-to-go-somewhere-that-cares-about-football/

The angle of this article could be nothing more than yet another underhanded shot at the Argos from our friends at 3DN but I believe the Argos don't need Bo and I consider this a positive development.

Another “3Down Staff” article.

[Bleedblue77]

Definitely a fun duo to watch, hopefully harris returns.

[paulwoods13]

Ottawa is going with Bob Dyce as head coach; hopefully this means Corey Mace stays put for 2023.

[ArgoRavi]

Ottawa is going with Bob Dyce as head coach; hopefully this means Corey Mace stays put for 2023.

I am guessing that he will stay put. The only other head coach opening is in Montreal and I doubt that Mace is on Maciocia's short list. I would be surprised if Jason Maas isn't named the new head coach of the Alouettes.

Perhaps Dinwiddie should make Mace the assistant head coach also which gives him a bit of a promotion.

[AngeloV]

Perhaps Dinwiddie should make Mace the assistant head coach also which gives him a bit of a promotion.

Would be a smart move, but with the operations cap, it may only be a move in name only.


I would be surprised if Jason Maas isn't named the new head coach of the Alouettes.



I would not be surprised if either Noel Thorpe or Calvillo got the gig.

[Will]

The Argos took care of some housekeeping today in re-signing most (if not all) of the players who were on their practice roster at the end of the season (and thus became free agents). They also re-signed Max Latour, which is important.

https://www.argonauts.ca/2022/12/06/toronto-argonauts-transactions-2/

Also signed Adam Cofield who was briefly with the team during the season, and a few other guys.

[jerrym]

Argos have re-signed OL Isiah Cage, OL Trevon Tate and added American WR Aleva Hifo.

https://www.argonauts.ca/2022/12/09/argos-re-sign-ol-isiah-cage-sign-american-wr-hifo/

[Will]

Frankly a bit surprised they brought back both of Cage and Tate.

[paulwoods13]

Keeping Allen is critically important, but the shortage of good tackles is only going to get worse with the new leagues starting up, so IMO it makes perfect sense to keep Cage and Tate. I've complained enough about letting Ivey go that it would make no sense for me to take any other stance.

[Argo57]

Frankly a bit surprised they brought back both of Cage and Tate.

OL depth is very important.

[gilthethrill]

Keeping Allen is critically important, but the shortage of good tackles is only going to get worse with the new leagues starting up, so IMO it makes perfect sense to keep Cage and Tate. I've complained enough about letting Ivey go that it would make no sense for me to take any other stance.

Agreed about the lack of good tackles especially with these Spring Leagues popping up like weeds, but I am curious why CFL players aren’t requesting their releases so they can sign with one of them?

[gilthethrill]

OL depth is very important.

I know Tate had his detractors last season, but when he went down with his knee injury last season, it really put the Argos O line in a precarious situation with the injuries to both Cage and Allen.

[Will]

Agreed about the lack of good tackles especially with these Spring Leagues popping up like weeds, but I am curious why CFL players aren’t requesting their releases so they can sign with one of them?

That's a good thing, isn't it?

[paulwoods13]

Although the spring leagues have low salaries, some players might in fact be seeking their release. But I doubt CFL teams will agree to such requests. This isn't a crack at the NFL.

[ArgoRavi]

Although the spring leagues have low salaries, some players might in fact be seeking their release. But I doubt CFL teams will agree to such requests. This isn't a crack at the NFL.

The bottom line is that veteran CFLers can make a lot more money in the CFL than they can in these new spring leagues. Where these new spring leagues have a greater impact is in recruitment of new players.

[ArgoRavi]

Keeping Allen is critically important, but the shortage of good tackles is only going to get worse with the new leagues starting up, so IMO it makes perfect sense to keep Cage and Tate. I've complained enough about letting Ivey go that it would make no sense for me to take any other stance.

Paul, I have to tease you a little. You were unhappy about Collins, Decoud, and Ivey all ending up in Edmonton but Collins was released early in the season by the Elks, Decoud has just been released, and the Argos ended up not missing Ivey one bit!

[paulwoods13]

Paul, I have to tease you a little. You were unhappy about Collins, Decoud, and Ivey all ending up in Edmonton but Collins was released early in the season by the Elks, Decoud has just been released, and the Argos ended up not missing Ivey one bit!

I have to disagree, I'mafraid. Ivey would have been way better than Shane Richards was when we ran into injuries to all of our OTs.

[jerrym]

Agreed about the lack of good tackles especially with these Spring Leagues popping up like weeds, but I am curious why CFL players aren’t requesting their releases so they can sign with one of them?

I have to wonder if some players are thinking about playing for much less money while not giving their bodies not much off an off-season and risking injury that costs them their higher paying CFL job. There is also Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) and since rest is the best cure for concussions whether some players may not be willing to bear the increase of two seasons of football a year, even when they have had no official concussion but have had many repeated hits to the head on tackles or with the ground.

[AngeloV]

I have to disagree, I'mafraid. Ivey would have been way better than Shane Richards was when we ran into injuries to all of our OTs.

And I have to disagree with you there. Richards was much better than you seem to think he was.

[paulwoods13]

Pete Costanza has reportedly withdrawn from consideration as Sask's OC. Good news for Argos.

[gilthethrill]

Pete Costanza has reportedly withdrawn from consideration as Sask's OC. Good news for Argos.

Costanza along will multiple other candidates have withdrawn their name. This is great news as it appears there will be much needed continuity for the Argos coaching staff for 2023.

[Rich]

Also signed Adam Cofield who was briefly with the team during the season, and a few other guys.

Signing two RBs at this point makes it pretty clear that Andrew Harris isn’t coming back.

[ArgoRavi]

Signing two RBs at this point makes it pretty clear that Andrew Harris isn’t coming back.

I would be shocked if the likes of Harris and Brandon Banks are back in 2023.

[Argo57]

I would be shocked if the likes of Harris and Brandon Banks are back in 2023.

Would probably be smart for both players to go out on top.

[paulwoods13]

Not surprising, but sad nonetheless, to see Declan Cross hang them up. Fortunately he goes out a winner, and with two GC rings. Here's hoping he does not use his newfound spare time to drill down into argofans forum archives from 2016.

[gilthethrill]

Not surprising, but sad nonetheless, to see Declan Cross hang them up. Fortunately he goes out a winner, and with two GC rings. Here's hoping he does not use his newfound spare time to drill down into argofans forum archives from 2016.

Good luck to Cross in his post football career. Carbone and Arseneau are candidates to take his place, seems the Argos are good at finding FB types later in the draft.

[Will]

Not surprising, but sad nonetheless, to see Declan Cross hang them up. Fortunately he goes out a winner, and with two GC rings. Here's hoping he does not use his newfound spare time to drill down into argofans forum archives from 2016.

It's pretty bad that I thought of the same thing.

[OV Argo]

Good luck to Cross in his post football career. Carbone and Arseneau are candidates to take his place, seems the Argos are good at finding FB types later in the draft.

Very little use in the recent Argo offence anyhow; and if you want just a blocker, find a quick & accomplished O-lineman to play that spot a few plays a game.

[Argo57]

Very little use in the recent Argo offence anyhow; and if you want just a blocker, find a quick & accomplished O-lineman to play that spot a few plays a game.

In truth hasn’t been used much since Trestman was in Toronto.

[ArgoRavi]

In truth hasn’t been used much since Trestman was in Toronto.

Exactly. Trestman and Dinwiddie run different offences; in Trestman's offence, the fullback was used much more for pass catching while Dinwiddie uses a fullback primarily for blocking purposes. Both head coaches won Grey Cups although Dinwiddie has generally had more success than Trestman if you look at what each coach accomplished over two years.

[cfl-cis fan]

Exactly. Trestman and Dinwiddie run different offences; in Trestman's offence, the fullback was used much more for pass catching while Dinwiddie uses a fullback primarily for blocking purposes. Both head coaches won Grey Cups although Dinwiddie has generally had more success than Trestman if you look at what each coach accomplished over two years.

Agree with the facts, however the facts left out is the roster that was provided to both coaches, sorry but Dinwiddie was afforded more/better .........

[AngeloV]

Agree with the facts, however the facts left out is the roster that was provided to both coaches, sorry but Dinwiddie was afforded more/better .........

Argos had a good roster under Trestman. People say the QB is the most important position. Maybe not by me, but most regard the QB Trestman was given to be much better than what Dinwiddie had. I've said for a while, Trestman doesn't work well with young QB's. All his success has been with vets. Rich Gannon was the QB when he was OC with a Raiders team that may have won a SB if not for that stupid tuck rule. His success in Montreal came with AC and in Toronto with Ray. He sure didn't seem like a genius in developing James Franklin.

Trestman is very stubborn. Hell, how long did it take for him to switch from a well past his prime Whittaker at RB to switch to JWJ? Without that move, Argos aren't even in the conversation for the 2017 GC. He favours vet players to a fault.

[paulwoods13]

Shockingly, Chad Kelly is lobbying for another NFL shot.

https://twitter.com/Chadkelly_6/with_replies

You watch, we will end up with neither MBT nor Kelly in 2023.

[gilthethrill]

Shockingly, Chad Kelly is lobbying for another NFL shot.

https://twitter.com/Chadkelly_6/with_replies

You watch, we will end up with neither MBT nor Kelly in 2023.

Pretty pessimistic aren’t you Paul? Even if CK gets a workout or 2 I doubt any offers will come his way. I fully expect the 2023 Grey Cup defending Toronto Argos to be set at QB.

[paulwoods13]

Pretty pessimistic aren’t you Paul? Even if CK gets a workout or 2 I doubt any offers will come his way. I fully expect the 2023 Grey Cup defending Toronto Argos to be set at QB.

My pessimism is based on a belief that MBT will (unfortunately for fans and the org) choose to move on to other things in his life, and that Kelly is a loose cannon who thinks he's bigger and better than the CFL, despite the nice-sounding words he uttered post-Grey Cup. Guess we will see, and hope I'm wrong on both counts. But I am certainly not counting on Kelly.

[Shatto]

I must admit, on hearing Kelly's recent comments, it does appear he is anxious to have another opportunity to play in the NFL. Even if he doesn't eventually sign with an NFL team, he may not be available for training camp and preseason. The fact MBT did not announce his retirement after the season ended, gives me some hope he might contemplate returning for one more year. That might be clutching at straws but we should know his intentions in the next few weeks (hopefully)

If neither MBT or Kelly are available, the team would need to look at QB's who might be on the market. IMO that will likely come down to Evans and Fajardo. Evans has shown glimpses of being a 1st rate QB but personally, I would prefer Fajardo. Last year, Fajardo was injured which hampered his mobility and he played behind an inept OL. The Argos appear to have a sound OL, which would provide Fajardo far better protection than he got last year. A mobile Fajardo playing behind a solid OL might be a potential answer to the team's QB needs (Assuming neither MBT or Keely are available)

[ArgoRavi]

I must admit, on hearing Kelly's recent comments, it does appear he is anxious to have another opportunity to play in the NFL. Even if he doesn't eventually sign with an NFL team, he may not be available for training camp and preseason. The fact MBT did not announce his retirement after the season ended, gives me some hope he might contemplate returning for one more year. That might be clutching at straws but we should know his intentions in the next few weeks (hopefully)

If neither MBT or Kelly are available, the team would need to look at QB's who might be on the market. IMO that will likely come down to Evans and Fajardo. Evans has shown glimpses of being a 1st rate QB but personally, I would prefer Fajardo. Last year, Fajardo was injured which hampered his mobility and he played behind an inept OL. The Argos appear to have a sound OL, which would provide Fajardo far better protection than he got last year. A mobile Fajardo playing behind a solid OL might be a potential answer to the team's QB needs (Assuming neither MBT or Keely are available)

Kelly can want to play in the NFL all he wants but nobody down there is interested in him at this point. He is under contract to the Argos for the 2023 season and is expected to be at camp.

[ArgoRavi]

Shockingly, Chad Kelly is lobbying for another NFL shot.

https://twitter.com/Chadkelly_6/with_replies

You watch, we will end up with neither MBT nor Kelly in 2023.

Swag Kelly thinks that he is one of the best in the game but none of that matters as there is zero NFL interest in him. Unless he completely messes up this off-season - and hopefully that behaviour is behind him - he will be in camp with the Argos in 2023.

[Argo57]

Kelly can want to play in the NFL all he wants but nobody down there is interested in him at this point. He is under contract to the Argos for the 2023 season and is expected to be at camp.

I don’t see Kelly generating any NFL interest at this point given his past behaviour and age (almost 29 years old), that could change if he succeeds over a larger sample size.

[paulwoods13]

I must admit, on hearing Kelly's recent comments, it does appear he is anxious to have another opportunity to play in the NFL. Even if he doesn't eventually sign with an NFL team, he may not be available for training camp and preseason. The fact MBT did not announce his retirement after the season ended, gives me some hope he might contemplate returning for one more year. That might be clutching at straws but we should know his intentions in the next few weeks (hopefully)

If neither MBT or Kelly are available, the team would need to look at QB's who might be on the market. IMO that will likely come down to Evans and Fajardo. Evans has shown glimpses of being a 1st rate QB but personally, I would prefer Fajardo. Last year, Fajardo was injured which hampered his mobility and he played behind an inept OL. The Argos appear to have a sound OL, which would provide Fajardo far better protection than he got last year. A mobile Fajardo playing behind a solid OL might be a potential answer to the team's QB needs (Assuming neither MBT or Keely are available)

I'd take Evans over Fajardo in a heartbeat, if it came to that. I also believe Argos still need another offensive tackle. It's nice that Tate and Cage have re-signed, but counting on either to start seems like a stretch to me.

[paulwoods13]

I don’t see Kelly generating any NFL interest at this point given his past behaviour and age (almost 29 years old).

Both factors would work against him, but there are some pretty terrible QBs in that league, and he's Jim Kelly's blah blah blah. Flutie was quite a bit older when he went to the NFL, albeit that was 25 years ago. I don't think it's out of the question Kelly gets some interest down there. And I fully expect he's not as dedicated to the idea of being the Argos' QB as I'd like the Argos' QB to be.

[Argo57]

Both factors would work against him, but there are some pretty terrible QBs in that league, and he's Jim Kelly's blah blah blah. Flutie was quite a bit older when he went to the NFL, albeit that was 25 years ago. I don't think it's out of the question Kelly gets some interest down there. And I fully expect he's not as dedicated to the idea of being the Argos' QB as I'd like the Argos' QB to be.

The Flutie comparison is irrelevant IMO, he returned to the NFL after establishing Hall of Fame credentials in the CFL, Kelly on the other shows some promise but is very early in his CFL career.

[paulwoods13]

The Flutie comparison is irrelevant IMO, he returned to the NFL after establishing Hall of Fame credentials in the CFL, Kelly on the other shows some promise but is very early in his CFL career.

Not arguing with any of this, but that doesn't mean he's dedicated to being a CFL QB. And I'm willing to bet he is not. He's the one who tweeted in response to the Denver situation, after all.

[AngeloV]

I don't get this whole discussion. Every player wants to get a shot in the NFL. That is the nature of the CFL. Regarding Ke;;y being a loose cannon, can we give it a rest? People change. I am not going to worry about some bad choices he made years ago. Lighten up.

[ArgoRavi]

Not arguing with any of this, but that doesn't mean he's dedicated to being a CFL QB. And I'm willing to bet he is not. He's the one who tweeted in response to the Denver situation, after all.

I would compare Kelly with former Argos kicker Donald De La Haye. They're both trying to make big splashes on social media and, in De La Hayes' case, make a living out of that. I don't think Kelly is looking to make a living out of social media at this point but he is trying to make a name for himself on there. I also believe that Kelly is far more committed to the Argos than De La Haye ever was.

I am not a big fan of social media stars or influencers but I have come to understand that the younger generation sees social media very differently than people my age do and I really think that Kelly's bombast has as much to do with that as anything. I don't believe he has had even one NFL workout this off-season so I see the danger of losing him as being 0.0.

[Argo57]

I don't get this whole discussion. Every player wants to get a shot in the NFL. That is the nature of the CFL. Regarding Ke;;y being a loose cannon, can we give it a rest? People change. I am not going to worry about some bad choices he made years ago. Lighten up.

The NFL offers the biggest opportunity for notoriety and generational wealth, can’t blame any player who aspires to play there.

[gilthethrill]

In other Argo news, the team announced the signing of American Passcatcher A Aron Parker out of Rhode Island U.

The defending Grey Cup Champions also announced the re signing of Veteran Canadian LB/FB Brandon Calver. He will be returning to the club to help defend the Grey Cup in 2023.

[OV Argo]

Swag Kelly thinks that he is one of the best in the game but none of that matters as there is zero NFL interest in him. Unless he completely messes up this off-season - and hopefully that behaviour is behind him - he will be in camp with the Argos in 2023.

So, where could the Argos find another QB prospect or two who are not in NFL dream-land, have little to no connections or history down there, and who would be proud & happy to get a CFL opportunity, would work very hard to make the best of it, and would not be shooting their social media mouth off about taking the NFL by storm?

["Issues"Mcgee]

As much as I would hate to see Kelly go, I can't blame someone for wanting to play for more money in their home country.

As for him thinking he's the best, who cares? He's a young athlete. I would be more concerned if Argo players didn't think they were the best.

[Shatto]

Not sure if this fits in this theme but the new ratio rules may have an impact on recruiting and even the draft. I suspect CFL teams may struggle on how to manage the new ratio. Simple put:
1) Teams must start 8 Canadians, up from 7.
2) A veteran American (3 years with team or 5 years in league) can play as a Canadian
3) 2 American veterans, 1 on offense and 1 on defense, can replace a Canadian up tp 49% of the snaps in a game.
4) 2 teams which play "real" Canadians the most in 2023, will get an additional 2rd round choice in the 2024 draft.

A cursory look at the Argo potential roster shows 6 or 7 players meet the criteria for being an American veteran. This would allow Cage to play left OT as a Canadian. There a many unanswered questions re. the new ratio--for example--what counts as playing for a year?

Anyone have any views on how the Argos may manage the new ratio rules? It is a bit of a guessing game at the moment but it makes for an interesting discussion.

[AngeloV]

Not sure if this fits in this theme but the new ratio rules may have an impact on recruiting and even the draft. I suspect CFL teams may struggle on how to manage the new ratio. Simple put:
1) Teams must start 8 Canadians, up from 7.
2) A veteran American (3 years with team or 5 years in league) can play as a Canadian
3) 2 American veterans, 1 on offense and 1 on defense, can replace a Canadian up tp 49% of the snaps in a game.
4) 2 teams which play "real" Canadians the most in 2023, will get an additional 2rd round choice in the 2024 draft.

A cursory look at the Argo potential roster shows 6 or 7 players meet the criteria for being an American veteran. This would allow Cage to play left OT as a Canadian. There a many unanswered questions re. the new ratio--for example--what counts as playing for a year?

Anyone have any views on how the Argos may manage the new ratio rules? It is a bit of a guessing game at the moment but it makes for an interesting discussion.

Not 100% sure if Cage would qualify based on number of games he has actually dressed for. Admittedly, I’m not sure if that factors in, but it should.

[paulwoods13]

I'm the last guy to criticize anyone for wanting to play in the NFL. It's clearly where the money is, and yes, every single player in the CFL would jump at the chance. But there's more than one way to go about it, and a prospective starting QB lobbying publicly for a job down there rubs me the wrong way. Not to mention fratboying it up on BarDown etc. I'm sorry if some are offended by my distaste for such antics, but I'm not gonna "lighten up" until I see evidence that type of behavior is no longer the default for "Swag."

[gilthethrill]

I'm the last guy to criticize anyone for wanting to play in the NFL. It's clearly where the money is, and yes, every single player in the CFL would jump at the chance. But there's more than one way to go about it, and a prospective starting QB lobbying publicly for a job down there rubs me the wrong way. Not to mention fratboying it up on BarDown etc. I'm sorry if some are offended by my distaste for such antics, but I'm not gonna "lighten up" until I see evidence that type of behavior is no longer the default for "Swag."

I am searching to see if Kelly has worked out for NFL teams or has any scheduled but I can’t find anything. Isn’t January 9 the deadline for CFL players to have their NFL workouts complete? Not sure where all the speculation that Kelly is jumping to the NFL is coming from.

[ArgoGabe22]

I'm sure this doesn't mean much but it appears that Chad Kelly is sill living in Toronto. According to social media, he hosted his brother over the holidays (Ole Miss TE) and has helped out at Dejon Brisset's football camp. Maybe he's just a big city guy and prefers it over wherever else he lives in the states?

[paulwoods13]

I am searching to see if Kelly has worked out for NFL teams or has any scheduled but I can’t find anything. Isn’t January 9 the deadline for CFL players to have their NFL workouts complete? Not sure where all the speculation that Kelly is jumping to the NFL is coming from.

For the record, my original (pessimistic) post said only: "You watch, we will end up with neither MBT nor Kelly in 2023." I later said: "I don't think it's out of the question Kelly gets some interest down there." I never said he will, or is likely to, jump to the NFL. But I have said more than once that I don't believe he's as dedicated to being the Argos' starting quarterback as I would like our starting quarterback to be, and I stand by that. It won't matter if he does not end up being our starting quarterback, obviously. But if he does, I find the things he does and says online to be troubling.

[AngeloV]

I have no worries about Kelly’s past. If he didn’t fit in this year he would have been gone. The fact that he never created an issue over playing time, despite so many ignorant people booing MBT at BMO tells me a lot about how he has matured. I trust that Dinwiddie and Pinball have a good read on him.

[ArgoRavi]

I am searching to see if Kelly has worked out for NFL teams or has any scheduled but I can’t find anything. Isn’t January 9 the deadline for CFL players to have their NFL workouts complete? Not sure where all the speculation that Kelly is jumping to the NFL is coming from.

There have been no NFL workouts for Kelly and none are scheduled - at least this is what I am assuming considering that we have heard nothing in the media or from the man himself about such workouts and he would be shouting it from the rooftops if there were NFL interest in him. What has changed over the past year that would elicit NFL interest in him again anyway? I doubt NFL teams are putting much stock into less than one quarter of work in the Grey Cup game.

I would love to be a male model and a billionaire just like Chad Kelly would like to play in the NFL but none of those things are going to happen. All he has been doing on social media is attempting to pump up his profile and I don't see that stopping anytime soon; however, it doesn't mean that he is heading to the NFL this off-season. The only way that the NFL will take notice at all is if he has a phenomenal 2023 season in Toronto and he would still be up against it, given his age.

[AngeloV]

I would love to be a male model

TMI Ravi. LOL!!!

[OV Argo]

Ravi, you are a role model for all good Argo fans. ;o)

["Issues"Mcgee]

I know you have what it takes to be a male model but clearly your attitude is holding you back.

[paulwoods13]

There have been no NFL workouts for Kelly and none are scheduled - at least this is what I am assuming considering that we have heard nothing in the media or from the man himself about such workouts and he would be shouting it from the rooftops if there were NFL interest in him. What has changed over the past year that would elicit NFL interest in him again anyway? I doubt NFL teams are putting much stock into less than one quarter of work in the Grey Cup game.

Again, my point is not whether the NFL has interest in him. It's whether he has sufficient interest in being the Argos' starting QB. If he does, he has a funny way of showing it. I think the starting QB (or anyone aspiring to that job) should be dedicated to the job and the team, not screwing around on social media to draw attention to himself, publicly suggesting he wants to be elsewhere, etc. I want a Holloway type, not a Manziel type. I'm far from convinced Kelly is anything other than a Manziel type.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Again, my point is not whether the NFL has interest in him. It's whether he has sufficient interest in being the Argos' starting QB. If he does, he has a funny way of showing it. I think the starting QB (or anyone aspiring to that job) should be dedicated to the job and the team, not screwing around on social media to draw attention to himself, publicly suggesting he wants to be elsewhere, etc. I want a Holloway type, not a Manziel type. I'm far from convinced Kelly is anything other than a Manziel type.

He seemed pretty dedicated when he helped the Argos win the Grey Cup. How many times does he have to do that for you to consider him dedicated?

[paulwoods13]

He seemed pretty dedicated when he helped the Argos win the Grey Cup. How many times does he have to do that for you to consider him dedicated?

He made some excellent plays in the fourth quarter of the Grey Cup, no question. A big contribution to the victory. He has outstanding physical tools, and he rose to the occasion that day, which is fantastic.

That's not what I'm talking about, however. What I'm seeing from him since then does not inspire confidence that he is ready to be (or even all that interested in being) the team leader we need at the QB position. I hope I will eventually be able to acknowledge that my concerns were unfounded. Time will tell.

[Argo57]

He made some excellent plays in the fourth quarter of the Grey Cup, no question. A big contribution to the victory. He has outstanding physical tools, and he rose to the occasion that day, which is fantastic.

That's not what I'm talking about, however. What I'm seeing from him since then does not inspire confidence that he is ready to be (or even all that interested in being) the team leader we need at the QB position. I hope I will eventually be able to acknowledge that my concerns were unfounded. Time will tell.

No doubt Kelly shows a lot of promise, I also have no issue with him wanting to take another shot down south.
I would think having his agent work behind the scenes to get an NFL workout would be the preferred method, I’m not a big fan of players pumping their own tires on Twitter like Kelly has been doing.
There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance, having said this I’m sure the Argonauts have a much better read on Kelly than any of us do.
Argos will be ok at QB in 2023, I wouldn’t close the door on MBT returning to Toronto.

[Argo57]

There have been no NFL workouts for Kelly and none are scheduled - at least this is what I am assuming considering that we have heard nothing in the media or from the man himself about such workouts and he would be shouting it from the rooftops if there were NFL interest in him. What has changed over the past year that would elicit NFL interest in him again anyway? I doubt NFL teams are putting much stock into less than one quarter of work in the Grey Cup game.

I would love to be a male model and a billionaire just like Chad Kelly would like to play in the NFL but none of those things are going to happen. All he has been doing on social media is attempting to pump up his profile and I don't see that stopping anytime soon; however, it doesn't mean that he is heading to the NFL this off-season. The only way that the NFL will take notice at all is if he has a phenomenal 2023 season in Toronto and he would still be up against it, given his age.

Try being a hand model Ravi, much less pressure.

[argolio]

Try being a hand model Ravi, much less pressure.He just needs to avoid sprained fingers. They take forever to heal.

[Argo57]

He just needs to avoid sprained fingers. They take forever to heal.

A potential career killer.

[AngeloV]

Try being a hand model Ravi, much less pressure.

It didn’t work so great for George Costanza in the end.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Happy New Year, you beautiful bastards!!!

[AngeloV]

Happy New year Issues and everyone else on here!!

[ArgoRavi]

It didn’t work so great for George Costanza in the end.

Or the guy who wasn't master of his domain and ended up with a claw.

Happy New Year to everyone!

[gilthethrill]

CFl transactions lists the Argos signing a trio of DBs. Quantez Stiggers, Chris Moore and JT Hassell. I wish to take this opportunity to welcome these 3 young men to the Toronto Argonauts organization and wish them all the best in their CFL journey.

[ArgoGabe22]

CFl transactions lists the Argos signing a trio of DBs. Quantez Stiggers, Chris Moore and JT Hassell. I wish to take this opportunity to welcome these 3 young men to the Toronto Argonauts organization and wish them all the best in their CFL journey.

Quantez Stiggers comes from the Fan Controlled Football League. The Argos listed his school as his highschool.

[gilthethrill]

The Argos have signed Keith Washington JR, a DB who played 8 games with the New Orleans Breakers of the USFL. He also has spent time across town with the New Orleans Saints of the NFL.

If he makes the Argos it will be the first time in his pro career he will be playing his home games outside the state of Louisiana.

[AngeloV]

The Argos have signed Keith Washington JR, a DB who played 8 games with the New Orleans Breakers of the USFL. He also has spent time across town with the New Orleans Saints of the NFL.

If he makes the Argos it will be the first time in his pro career he will be playing his home games outside the state of Louisiana.

If I recall, all USFL games were played in Birmingham Alabama last year, so technically his home games last year we’re not in Louisiana. I’m very disappointed in you, I take all your USFL postings as gospel.

[gilthethrill]

If I recall, all USFL ga,es were played in Birmingham Alabama last year, so technically his home games last year we’re not in Louisiana. I’m very disappointed in you, I take all your USFL postings as gospel.

Tell that to all the Tampa Bay Bandit fans that lost their team when the league decided to relocate it to Memphis and rename it the Show Boats for 2023.

[argolio]

Tell that to all the Tampa Bay Bandit fans that lost their team when the league decided to relocate it to Memphis and rename it the Show Boats for 2023.A heinous miscarriage of justice!

[AngeloV]

Tell that to all the Tampa Bay Bandit fans that lost their team when the league decided to relocate it to Memphis and rename it the Show Boats for 2023.

I thought they moved to Vegas? Or am I confusing the 2 leagues.

[gilthethrill]

I thought they moved to Vegas? Or am I confusing the 2 leagues.

The XFLs Tampa Bay Vipers did relocate to Las Vegas. So a double kick in the groin for the city of Tampa Bay with the loss of the USFL Bandits to Memphis as well.

[ArgoRavi]

Getting back to Chad Kelly, here is a New York Post article about him: https://nypost.com/2023/01/12/chad-kelly-hopes-cfl-championship-sparks-nfl-second-chance/

[gilthethrill]

CFL.ca reports that the Grey Cup Champion Toronto Argonauts have extended the contract of DB Robertson Daniel. Daniel is expected to be in TC as the Argos defend their Grey Cup title.

[ArgoGabe22]

Getting back to Chad Kelly, here is a New York Post article about him: https://nypost.com/2023/01/12/chad-kelly-hopes-cfl-championship-sparks-nfl-second-chance/

This isn't a gossip tabloid forum.....When you open the link and see what other articles are on there. Yikes...

["Issues"Mcgee]

This isn't a gossip tabloid forum.....When you open the link and see what other articles are on there. Yikes...

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/19/nfl-news-chad-kelly-wants-another-chance/

What's scary is the article gained a bit of traction. I wish the media would pipe down about him.

[ArgoRavi]

This isn't a gossip tabloid forum.....When you open the link and see what other articles are on there. Yikes...

The New York Post is that city's equivalent to the Toronto Sun.

[ArgoRavi]

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/19/nfl-news-chad-kelly-wants-another-chance/

What's scary is the article gained a bit of traction. I wish the media would pipe down about him.

He isn't getting another NFL chance this year, if ever, so he needs to focus fully on the upcoming season with the Argos.

[Will]

CFL.ca reports that the Grey Cup Champion Toronto Argonauts have extended the contract of DB Robertson Daniel. Daniel is expected to be in TC as the Argos defend their Grey Cup title.

1) Hopefully this gets the ball rolling on re-signing some of the other pending free agents.

2) Daniel hasn't been terrible while in the lineup, but he's been hurt the vast majority of the time. That trade for Cordarro Law, Eric Rogers and Robertson Daniel saw all three sign with the Argos, but all three have played very little as Argos due to injuries, and in the case of Law wasn't retained for last season.

[AngeloV]

He isn't getting another NFL chance this year, if ever, so he needs to focus fully on the upcoming season with the Argos.

Honestly, he doesn't need ot focus on anything other than staying in shape until such time as he comes into camp. It really isn't for anyone here to tell him what he needs to do. As I have mentioned before, I am not offended by anything he has put out on social media.

[OV Argo]

Argo draft pick O-lineman Sage Doxtator signs with Houston of the XFL, after failing to stick in the NFL.

[gilthethrill]

Argo draft pick O-lineman Sage Doxtator signs with Houston of the XFL, after failing to stick in the NFL.

I posted that information in my XFL 3.0 thread earlier this afternoon. OV posting this here confirms what I already suspected….that no one reads my XFL/USFL threads!

[OV Argo]

I posted that information in my XFL 3.0 thread earlier this afternoon. OV posting this here confirms what I already suspected….that no one reads my XFL/USFL threads!

I'm interested; will check it out in the future.

[gilthethrill]

I'm interested; will check it out in the future.

Oh trust me OV…..it lacks interesting content! :)

But back to Doxtator, I get why he went to the XFL. If he comes to Toronto he knows he won’t see much of the field, with the XFL his chances of actually playing and getting game tape to the NFL is much greater.

[OV Argo]

Oh trust me OV…..it lacks interesting content! :)

But back to Doxtator, I get why he went to the XFL. If he comes to Toronto he knows he won’t see much of the field, with the XFL his chances of actually playing and getting game tape to the NFL is much greater.

Maybe; seems to me the Argos could have openings at OT though; maybe he's not interested in CFL minimum wage that Canadian draft picks are restricted to ?

[Shatto]

It is disappointing Doxtator went to the XFL rather than sign with the Argos. But it is understandable as it appears he has the NFL in his sights and considers the XFL more likely to lead to an NFL opportunity. I'm not sure that is true but Doxtator obviously believes it to be so. If he had signed with the Argos, it is difficult to see him getting a lot of playing time in his first year. It is highly unlikely he would replace Allen at LT or Bladek and Hunter at G and certainly not Nicastro at C. That leave LT where he would have to compete against Cage and quite possibly Blake. It should also be noted there has been some question about Doxtator's mobility to play Tackle and he might be better suited to play Guard.

As a backup he would have to beat out one of Mackellar, Richards, Giffen, Churchill and maybe even free agent Lawrence. Doxtator could likely to be a project and perhaps some time in the XFL might develop him for a future CFL role.

[Shatto]

This may be a little off topic but has anyone heard when the CFL Scouting Bureau's Winter Top 20 Draft Prospects Ranking might be published?

[paulwoods13]

It is disappointing Doxtator went to the XFL rather than sign with the Argos. But it is understandable as it appears he has the NFL in his sights and considers the XFL more likely to lead to an NFL opportunity. I'm not sure that is true but Doxtator obviously believes it to be so.

Aside from the fact that Doxtator will not have to compete against established vets, anyone who signs in the XFL is eligible to play in the NFL in 2023. If he came to the CFL he'd be waiting until 2024 for his earliest possible NFL opportunity. This reality (which also applies to the USFL) is going to cause a massive recruiting problem for all CFL teams.

[Argo57]

I’m starting to wonder about Chad Kelly, he’s under contract with the Argos for 2023 and is pontificating on how great it would be to play for the Riders.
I have no issue with his desire to play down south but he doesn’t seem to know how to STFU.

https://3downnation.com/2023/01/22/id-love-to-play-in-saskatchewan-argos-qb-chad-kelly-acknowledges-trade-speculation-sees-riders-as-good-fit/

[gilthethrill]

I’m starting to wonder about Chad Kelly, he’s under contract with the Argos for 2023 and is pontificating on how great it would be to play for the Riders.
I have no issue with his desire to play down south but he doesn’t seem to know how to STFU.

https://3downnation.com/2023/01/22/id-love-to-play-in-saskatchewan-argos-qb-chad-kelly-acknowledges-trade-speculation-sees-riders-as-good-fit/

My suggestion to Mr Kelly…fulfill your contract, report to Argos TC and earn the starting job. Simple. I think he would immediately regret playing in Regina for a lame duck HC behind a porous O line with an OC who was a 5th choice hire. Be patient, you have a great future in Toronto.

[Argo57]

My suggestion to Mr Kelly…fulfill your contract, report to Argos TC and earn the starting job. Simple. I think he would immediately regret playing in Regina for a lame duck HC behind a porous O line with an OC who was a 5th choice hire. Be patient, you have a great future in Toronto.

Sound advise Dean!

[ArgoGabe22]

I’m starting to wonder about Chad Kelly, he’s under contract with the Argos for 2023 and is pontificating on how great it would be to play for the Riders.
I have no issue with his desire to play down south but he doesn’t seem to know how to STFU.

https://3downnation.com/2023/01/22/id-love-to-play-in-saskatchewan-argos-qb-chad-kelly-acknowledges-trade-speculation-sees-riders-as-good-fit/

Starting to get annoying. Every time he speaks, he gets the clicks (confirmed by 3DN). He wants to start and play and at 28 I guess it is now or never. But that should be the job of his agent. If Argos want him as a backup, agent can try to work a sign and trade with a team that would start him. Rather than publicly gush over the Riders while being an Argo and stating "Toronto is the only place I want to play" in the past.

The NFL talk doesn't bother me as much because as an American, that was his dream and that is also what American media wants to hear and they could set him up with that chatter with the kind of questions they ask him.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Did you guys listen to the interview?

Chad Kelly never acknowledged any trade speculation at all. The host brought up the Riders and then abruptly asked Kelly if he was ready to start. Of course he would say yes in that situation.

On playing for the Riders hypothetically, he said "they have the best fans, I guess," and the last thing he said in the interview was "Go Argos."

That article was complete click bait and after hearing the interview, I'm not buying it.

[Argo57]

Did you guys listen to the interview?

Chad Kelly never acknowledged any trade speculation at all. The host brought up the Riders and then abruptly asked Kelly if he was ready to start. Of course he would say yes in that situation.

On playing for the Riders hypothetically, he said "they have the best fans, I guess," and the last thing he said in the interview was "Go Argos."

That article was complete click bait and after hearing the interview, I'm not buying it.

You are in fact 100% correct.
Reading the article only is in fact very misleading, 3Down manipulating the interview to create a false narrative.
Listening to it gives proper context to Kelly’s answers.

[OV Argo]

This may be a little off topic but has anyone heard when the CFL Scouting Bureau's Winter Top 20 Draft Prospects Ranking might be published?

Should be soon i think.

Good crop of NCAA ball Canucks this draft, but problem is - a bunch of them are going to draw some NFL interest; maybe not a real deep crop of U Sports guys, but a few real good ones IMO; but some can defer (Covid rules), and the 2 top rated UBC O-linemen have already chose to do so.

[Shatto]

Should be soon i think.

Good crop of NCAA ball Canucks this draft, but problem is - a bunch of them are going to draw some NFL interest; maybe not a real deep crop of U Sports guys, but a few real good ones IMO; but some can defer (Covid rules), and the 2 top rated UBC O-linemen have already chose to do so.

I will be interested to see if Clark Barnes (Guelph) will still be available by the 9th choice. One of his team mates (actually one of my grandsons) confirms the reports of his exceptional speed being legitimate. At 6' 1" and 195 lbs he could be an excellent backup to Metchie as he works his way into a starter's role. That is, if he is still available at 9 and he doesn't attract NFL interest.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

I will be interested to see if Clark Barnes (Guelph) will still be available by the 9th choice. One of his team mates (actually one of my grandsons) confirms the reports of his exceptional speed being legitimate. At 6' 1" and 195 lbs he could be an excellent backup to Metchie as he works his way into a starter's role. That is, if he is still available at 9 and he doesn't attract NFL interest.
Barnes has done enough to justify a NFL mini-camp invite.I don't think you will see him this season.There are at least 15 guys who will end up either NFL draftees or UDFA's.The USports top tier guys(Masterson, Murphy, Grohovac, Martin, Taylor, Etc..) could add to that number. I'm hoping Pinball can get DL Kail Dava(Tennessee Tech)and DB Patrick Burke(Laurier) with the first 2 picks.

[OV Argo]

Barnes has done enough to justify a NFL mini-camp invite.I don't think you will see him this season.There are at least 15 guys who will end up either NFL draftees or UDFA's.The USports top tier guys(Masterson, Murphy, Grohovac, Martin, Taylor, Etc..) could add to that number. I'm hoping Pinball can get DL Kail Dava(Tennessee Tech)and DB Patrick Burke(Laurier) with the first 2 picks.

Barnes had a very disappointing season last year for such a top rated prospect - guess he was injured some (played only 4 games)?, plus Guelph went with a new American QB who did not fare well (barely 50% completion rate).

Argos have a lot of Canadian talent across the roster; but i guess receiver could be a way to go (Brescacin unwanted and a write-off); new guy could compete with Nield & Brissett for roster / playing time; Barnes & Jeremy Murphy were both down at that US all-star testing event (report by Abbott over at 3 Down - he's a bit condescending towards Canadian U Sport talent at times, but gotta give him credit for going down to the event and reporting on it); saw Murphy play a bit last season and was very impressed. Still love to see the Argos take Western RB Keon Edwards, even with 1st pick if need be; most explosive RB out of U Sports ball in a long-time perhaps IMO (maybe going back to Jesse Lumsden) ?

[paulwoods13]

Still love to see the Argos take Western RB Keon Edwards, even with 1st pick if need be; most explosive RB out of U Sports ball in a long-time perhaps IMO (maybe going back to Jesse Lumsden) ?

If he's that promising, surely he will get NFL looks (as Lumsden did)? Worth a No. 1 pick on a guy who likely won't show up for a while, if ever? We had to wait four years for Hunter, and I'm still amazed he even bothered to come up here.

[AngeloV]

Aside from the fact that Doxtator will not have to compete against established vets, anyone who signs in the XFL is eligible to play in the NFL in 2023. If he came to the CFL he'd be waiting until 2024 for his earliest possible NFL opportunity. This reality (which also applies to the USFL) is going to cause a massive recruiting problem for all CFL teams.

Which is why the league seriously needs to consider changing the amount of Americans on the roster. If I ran the league, I would have game day rosters set up as follows: 16 Internationals, 24 Nationals and 3 QB’s. I would scrap the global initiative and declare any football player with no NCAA experience as a National. This would guarantee 7 national starters and any back up in this scenario would be a national (unless a team started more than 7) It would also likely make the Internationals more valuable and therefore starting international players would likely not get paid less than back up nationals. Win win for everyone.

[OV Argo]

If he's that promising, surely he will get NFL looks (as Lumsden did)? Worth a No. 1 pick on a guy who likely won't show up for a while, if ever? We had to wait four years for Hunter, and I'm still amazed he even bothered to come up here.

He might only be that promising in my IMO; his numbers at Western are outstanding, and he's a real big back - listed at 230 - as Lumsden was, but not sure if he has near the blazing speed that Lumsden did - that 40 time, plus getting to play in the US Shrine all-star game (where he had some real nice runs), might have got Jesse that NFL look. Have heard next to no recognition yet for Edwards being a top draft prospect for this spring (pretty sure he will be eligible unless he was allowed to defer?) - but early yet, and not much CFL draft talk at this point - the Combine stirs things up there. IF he does not much draw much notice, he might be able to get with a mid to later round pick ?

[gilthethrill]

3 Down Nation reports that the Argos have signed a young DE named Tyree Johnson out of Texas A@M University. No mention of Chad Kelly being traded to the Riders in this article.

[OV Argo]

Free agency approaching and getting a bit worried about Argo FA K. Gittens deciding to jump to his home-town RedBlacks (who could use receiver help IMO). RedBlacks making some nice moves with HC Dyce and his new staff: Masoil re-signed (hope he is fully recovered?); top DE L. Mauldin re-inked; and today they added former Bomber all-star O_lineman Drew Desjarlais, off a one year NFL PR tour. Gittens would be a real nice addition for them and they might be able to offer pretty big CFL buck$ ?

[paulwoods13]

Gittens to Ottawa is absolutely a distinct possibility. It would be terrible to lose a young star to his hometown, a repeat of the Sean McEwen situation. Kurleigh might not want to sign here without knowing who the starting QB will be.

[Will]

None of us here are privy to what is going on behind the scenes, but I have noted that the Argos have extended or re-signed 5/25 (20%) if their free agents. I've wondered for several weeks now whether they are waiting for MBT to decide. I hope they've given him a deadline on that front, but it is tight timing to the start of the "free agency window" or whatever the proper terminology is.

Kurleigh to Ottawa is something I've feared since last offseason. However, I doubt Desjarlais came cheaply and they also re-signed Behar earlier in the offseason (which means nothing). Also, Gittens by staying in Toronto gets:

1. A coach with a championship pedigree over a 1st year coach.
2. He's been in Southern Ontario since his WLU days so who knows what roots he's put down here.
3. Stick around w/ his WLU teammates Smith and Acheampong.

[gilthethrill]

Argos announced the signing of yet another DB. Davin Hafford who spent 6 years at Tarlton State (almost as long as my HS tenure) and made his rounds with the USFL, NFL and most recently the XFL will join an already crowded group of DB prospects in search of employment with the Grey Cup Champion squad.

[OV Argo]

Gittens to Ottawa is absolutely a distinct possibility. It would be terrible to lose a young star to his hometown, a repeat of the Sean McEwen situation. Kurleigh might not want to sign here without knowing who the starting QB will be.

RedBlacks just announced the re-signing of Canadian receiver Tevaughn Smith (some decent CFL experience after bouncing around NFL PRs for a few seasons - but so-far has not lived-up to a 1st round pick); they also have re-signed Nate Behar who had a good season as a starter last year; and still have local guy draft pick Keaton Bruggeling (Ravens) who played a bit last season and maybe still un-signed speedster Shaq Johnson; SO - maybe they are fairly set for Canadian receivers; unless Dyce would entertain starting 2 or even 3? - doubtful, but you never know. Hoping they pass on making a run at Gittens, who should command pretty decent CFL buck$ now.

[Will]

RedBlacks just announced the re-signing of Canadian receiver Tevaughn Smith (some decent CFL experience after bouncing around NFL PRs for a few seasons - but so-far has not lived-up to a 1st round pick); they also have re-signed Nate Behar who had a good season as a starter last year; and still have local guy draft pick Keaton Bruggeling (Ravens) who played a bit last season and maybe still un-signed speedster Shaq Johnson; SO - maybe they are fairly set for Canadian receivers; unless Dyce would entertain starting 2 or even 3? - doubtful, but you never know. Hoping they pass on making a run at Gittens, who should command pretty decent CFL buck$ now.

Plus Ottawa spent like drunken sailors last year and it blew up in their faces. Granted we don't know what might have been if Masoli stayed healthy, but maybe it turns them off from being aggressive? I've noted they've brought back many of their FAs.

[Scooter McCray]

Plus Ottawa spent like drunken sailors last year and it blew up in their faces. Granted we don't know what might have been if Masoli stayed healthy, but maybe it turns them off from being aggressive? I've noted they've brought back many of their FAs.Masoli restructured his contract last week for a larger signing bonus and less salary over the next 2 years. If he stays healthy this year Ottawa will be in the mix with Toronto and Hamilton. Montreal will take huge step backward if they lose Trevor Harris and Geno Lewis to Saskatchewan.

[Will]

Ottawa has re-signed/extended a greater percentage of their pending free agents than any other team. They must be really banking on the premise that Masoli's injury caused their season to derail (which I won't necessarily argue). Could it be a hint that they won't be as active in free agency this year? I also think we're trying to rationalize not losing Gittens right now.

[paulwoods13]

Ott signing Smith makes me more optimistic we will get Gittens back. He's a big-ticket player now so not affordable to everyone, which might work in our favour.

[Scooter McCray]

Ottawa has re-signed/extended a greater percentage of their pending free agents than any other team. They must be really banking on the premise that Masoli's injury caused their season to derail (which I won't necessarily argue). Could it be a hint that they won't be as active in free agency this year? I also think we're trying to rationalize not losing Gittens right now.Ottawa before Masoli went down played Winnipeg and BC close. Coaching was their problem. They have some good core pieces. With Khari Jones and Baron Miles coaching you may see some Montreal free agents make a run for the provincial border.

[AngeloV]

Ottawa before Masoli went down played Winnipeg and BC close. Coaching was their problem. They have some good core pieces. With Khari Jones and Baron Miles coaching you may see some Montreal free agents make a run for the provincial border.

They did play both those teams close, but IIRC, the 2 Bombers games were llow scoring games. The BC game was higher scoring, but he did not play well in that game. Although I believe Ottawa would have been better had he not gone down, I don’t think it would have been much better.

[OV Argo]

Ottawa before Masoli went down played Winnipeg and BC close. Coaching was their problem. They have some good core pieces. With Khari Jones and Baron Miles coaching you may see some Montreal free agents make a run for the provincial border.

Not sure there is that much Ottawa would covet from the Als FA list? They do need help at RB so maybe Walter Fletcher; E. Lewis sounds like he is expecting way too much ca$h; Weinke is a good one, IMO, but the RedBlacks might think they are pretty good at receiver - Acklin + that ex Atlanta Falcon Justin Hardy (5 seasons of playing time there) was pretty impressive late in the season and they have some other vet import receivers (if they end up starting Darvin Adams again i'll think they are on the wrong track) + they have some decent Canadian talent at receiver.

[ArgoRavi]

They did play both those teams close, but IIRC, the 2 Bombers games were llow scoring games. The BC game was higher scoring, but he did not play well in that game. Although I believe Ottawa would have been better had he not gone down, I don’t think it would have been much better.

I agree, AV. Ottawa was 0-4 with Masoli and the last game he played in Saskatchewan was a poor one for both him and the RedBlacks. Maybe they would have gone 6-12 - and won a home game or two - had Masoli stayed healthy for the entire season but they were a long way from being a contender regardless.

[OV Argo]

D. Daniels and Ouellette - hoping they are next on the list to get re-signed.

[ArgoRavi]

D. Daniels and Ouellette - hoping they are next on the list to get re-signed.

I would like to see both of them back also.

[OV Argo]

I would like to see both of them back also.

One down / one to go

[OV Argo]

Argos not making any big splash noises so far in the FA tampering period to suggest they are going after some big name FAs - like a bunch of other teams are doing = good! A lot of these desperate GMs are likely over-paying big time for some decent to average or even good talent IMO.

Not sure who the Argos would target amongst known FAs to try for upgrades ? A receiver maybe if Rogers & Brescacin are unlikely in the picture anymore? Big NO to paying Geno Lewis huge buck$. A top DE talent, or are J. Davis and Shane Ray likely to return? And thank gawd mediocre or stiff QBs like Schlitz and Dom Davis are headed elsewhere.

Not against adding some nice talent via free agency, but not worth paying big buck$ for most of them. The GC Champs will build on their current roster, retain good players and let some existing guys step-up or recruit or draft some good new talent on their own. Of course QB is still a big concern, if MBT does not return, but Kelly might be up to the challenge.

[ArgoRavi]

This is the first I have heard of the trade, OV, so thanks for the update. Regarding what other teams are doing, it has been interesting to see some of the salaries being handed out, especially for import receivers. I like Kenny Lawler but I didn't think he was worth the money he received in 2022 from Edmonton and the price tag still seems awfully high for the Blue Bombers in 2023. If you are paying a receiver that much, I would expect at least 1500 yards of receiving from that individual.

I like Matthew Shiltz so I think the Ticats have retained a solid backup QB there. Dom Davis is excellent at short-yardage but he has been in the league since at least 2015 and I just haven't seen the progress from him that one would hope to see. You would have to think that Antonio Pipkin and Michael O'Connor are both done in B.C. I wouldn't mind seeing the Argos grab O'Connor.

[Argo57]

Another good signing by the World Champions.

https://3downnation.com/2023/02/09/toronto-argonauts-agree-to-terms-with-de-folarin-orimolade/

[ArgoGabe22]

Another good signing by the World Champions.

https://3downnation.com/2023/02/09/toronto-argonauts-agree-to-terms-with-de-folarin-orimolade/

Not sure if Davis' time is done but I think its definitely time to replace Shane Ray

[ArgoRavi]

Not sure if Davis' time is done but I think its definitely time to replace Shane Ray

I suspect that Davis will have to take a pay cut wherever he ends up. I wouldn't mind seeing Ray get another season with the Argos. He played quite well in 2022 before his season-ending injury.

[Treblecharger1]

I also would like to see Ray back... he had another tryout with KC this offseason.

I think if he is not asking silly money they will bring him back

[OV Argo]

Not sure if Davis' time is done but I think its definitely time to replace Shane Ray

Orimolade is a good DE (though maybe a tad over-rated by the TSN types); and J. Davis was a top notch CFL DE for a number of seasons, but I thought he just did not look as strong as before on the Argo D last season (GC good luck charm still though) - maybe getting on in mileage? Shane Ray has flashed at least some good DE skills with the Argos, but not consistent and has had injury problems; and no way he should be getting more reps than Robbie Smiith anyhow. I think the Argos would be quite good with Smith & Orimolade as the main 2 DEs, but continue with lots of D-Line rotation; maybe Dionte Knight gets some reps there; or another current (like Ali Fayad - former MAC D player of the year) or new import DE in the mix; and there are a few good DE prospects up this draft. Do NOT over-pay for another known FA who is perhaps quite over-rated just because he got to play for another team.

[Shatto]

The DE situation looks very promising for the Argos. Smith has proven to be a top notch player and should now be one of the DE starters. Orimolade looks like an exciting addition and will probably also be a DE starter. But, there is some very promising depth. Barlow looked very good when he came on strongly in the stretch run last season. Fayad has the talent and could develop into a good DE. Newly signed Tyree Johnson appears to have the athletic ability and speed that could put him into the mix as well. The knock against Johnson is his arms are too short for the NFL which shouldn't be a problem in the CFL. Knight didn't get much playing time last year but he does have excellent potential.

Davis played well last year but nowhere near the level expected at his pay level. Doubtful he will be back. Ray played very well last year but he just does not seem to be able to stay healthy. A healthy Ray would be an asset but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards.

[Will]

According to Justin Dunk, the deal with the Argonauts makes Orimolade the highest paid DE in the CFL. I'm a bit skittish given the Argos luck with signing defensive ends over the years.

[argolio]

The trade for Williams and Orimolade signing: filling needs with talent and character works for me.

[OV Argo]

According to Justin Dunk, the deal with the Argonauts makes Orimolade the highest paid DE in the CFL. I'm a bit skittish given the Argos luck with signing defensive ends over the years.

I don't have much use for CFL $lalary gossip, but if that is true, IMO it's an example of what I talked about in recent posts - GMs paying way too much for known FAs just because they played somewhere else in the league ??? Orimoldade has flashed some good DE skills for the Stumps for sure, but it's hardly like he's a Cam Wake, Joe Montford or Jim Corrigal in their primes - and not even close - now those types in their primes might be worth paying huge or league top buck$ for.

Hoping the Argos take it easy on name FAs signings from here on in. Williams & Orimolade are good adds to the D; Harris returning at tailback (and even if Ouellette moves on, they have Adeboboye in the wings); a vet receiver might be a good add - but not Geno Lewis at outrageous league high money. Outside of the QB question mark, the Argos existing talent just won a GC - don't go clowning around over-paying for FAs for the sake of it.

[Will]

I don't have much use for CFL $lalary gossip, but if that is true, IMO it's an example of what I talked about in recent posts - GMs paying way too much for known FAs just because they played somewhere else in the league ??? Orimoldade has flashed some good DE skills for the Stumps for sure, but it's hardly like he's a Cam Wake, Joe Montford or Jim Corrigal in their primes - and not even close - now those types in their primes might be worth paying huge or league top buck$ for.

Hoping the Argos take it easy on name FAs signings from here on in. Williams & Orimolade are good adds to the D; Harris returning at tailback (and even if Ouellette moves on, they have Adeboboye in the wings); a vet receiver might be a good add - but not Geno Lewis at outrageous league high money. Outside of the QB question mark, the Argos existing talent just won a GC - don't go clowning around over-paying for FAs for the sake of it.

1. More or less my feelings on it (assuming its true), not necessarily that he played somewhere else in the league, but I don't know if he commands that type of salary YET.

2. I also would like the Argos to look a vet receiver. Perhaps a Rasheed Bailey or Reggie White, Jr.

[OV Argo]

1. More or less my feelings on it (assuming its true), not necessarily that he played somewhere else in the league, but I don't know if he commands that type of salary YET.

2. I also would like the Argos to look a vet receiver. Perhaps a Rasheed Bailey or Reggie White, Jr.

Big no to either of Bailey and especially White (who was replaced by a far superior receiver in Philpot last year for the Als - you know, a Canadian who you get in the draft and let play receiver); and please gawd no to Darvin dropsem' Adams; not many FA receivers out there I'd be that interested in with some of them demanding huge bucks supposedly (Tim White for the Ticats is quite good but not worth huge receiver bucks IMO). Rather recruit a couple of new import receivers for TC and/or draft a receiver prospect. Why not bring back Llevi Noel and let him play in the receiving corps plus do his good job of ST cover guy ?

[paulwoods13]

Big no to either of Bailey and especially White (who was replaced by a far superior receiver in Philpot last year for the Als - you know, a Canadian who you get in the draft and let play receiver); and please gawd no to Darvin dropsem' Adams; not many FA receivers out there I'd be that interested in with some of them demanding huge bucks supposedly (Tim White for the Ticats is quite good but not worth huge receiver bucks IMO). Rather recruit a couple of new import receivers for TC and/or draft a receiver prospect. Why not bring back Llevi Noel and let him play in the receiving corps plus do his good job of ST cover guy ?

Llevi Noel is (or at least was) a great special teamer, but he hasn't made any type of meaningful contribution at receiver in this league since 2018, and has caught four passes in total the last two seasons. I think your sometimes-endearing nationalism has got the better of you on this one, OV.

[Shatto]

The team has 3 very solid WRs in Gittens, Daniels and Phillips. Gittens is a young outstanding receiver, one of the best in the league and a Canadian to boot. Daniels had an excellent year with 860 yards and 108 yards in the Eastern final. Phillip really shone in the Grey Cup with 96 receiving yards, proving that he can perform in the big game.

The team has a plethora of potentially effective receivers. Coxie performed very well in the few games he played last year. Haydel and Hifo have speed and are especially promising performers. Remember Haydel scored a TD on a long kickoff return and Hifo ran 4.41 at his pro day. The newcomer Aaron Parker could be a real find. At 6'2" and 210 lbs he has the size and the athletic ability to succeed in this league. He gets good separation and is exceedingly adept at winning contested balls. Canadians Nield and Brisset could also have breakout years this season. Brisset has been slow to realize his potential but this could be the year he accomplishes it.

The talent is there and with any luck one or two of the above could become starters.

[OV Argo]

Llevi Noel is (or at least was) a great special teamer, but he hasn't made any type of meaningful contribution at receiver in this league since 2018, and has caught four passes in total the last two seasons. I think your sometimes-endearing nationalism has got the better of you on this one, OV.

Quoting player stats for guys who didn't get to play much or at all is laughable - what did Eric Rogers do for the Argos last season? or the season before? or in 2020 when there was no season? = i guess he's a no or limited talent receiver ???. Noel went on to real dumb-@$$ offence teams who saw fit to play mediocres over him. He did put up a 47 catch / 500+ yard season for the Argos a few years back when he was given a shot to play (but not full time receiver reps); and he does not drop passes galore like Darvin Adams or Ambles types who get repeat CFL chances because of their birth certificate. Funny we get to see Manny Arcenaux recycled again & again in the CFL at his age? But maybe Llevi is old and washed-up now ?

[paulwoods13]

Quoting player stats for guys who didn't get to play much or at all is laughable - what did Eric Rogers do for the Argos last season? or the season before? or in 2020 when there was no season? = i guess he's a no or limited talent receiver ???. Noel went on to real dumb-@$$ offence teams who saw fit to play mediocres over him. He did put up a 47 catch / 500+ yard season for the Argos a few years back when he was given a shot to play (but not full time receiver reps); and he does not drop passes galore like Darvin Adams or Ambles types who get repeat CFL chances because of their birth certificate. Funny we get to see Manny Arcenaux recycled again & again in the CFL at his age? But maybe Llevi is old and washed-up now ?

It was five years back, which I guess counts as "a few." And as it happens, I've been reviewing a lot of Argo games from 2018; he dropped his share of catchable passes that year. The guys you cite as getting repeat chances because of their birth certificates have all had much higher production than Noel, who unquestionably has been on CFL rosters because of his birth certificate. (I knew my response [and this one] would be like waving a red flag in front of a charging bull, I guess.)

[paulwoods13]

Quoting player stats for guys who didn't get to play much or at all is laughable - what did Eric Rogers do for the Argos last season? or the season before? or in 2020 when there was no season? = i guess he's a no or limited talent receiver ???.

For the record, Noel played 17 games last season, with one reception. He played four games in 2021, with three receptions. Rogers played one game last season, with three receptions. In 2021 he played six games, with 25 receptions.

[OV Argo]

For the record, Noel played 17 games last season, with one reception. He played four games in 2021, with three receptions. Rogers played one game last season, with three receptions. In 2021 he played six games, with 25 receptions.

Do I really have to explain the difference between dressing for games vs. actually being on the playing field on O or D ?; or the concept of targets resulting in catches for receivers ???


And if you can't grasp that a whole bunch of American players who have done not much or played average at best in LOTS of playing / starting time somehow "earn" repeat CFL chances based on their passport (getting to play at spots reserved for Americans only on the particular team and where Canadians get zero shot), then I really don't know what to say = let's not continue on this topic.

[OV Argo]

One down / one to go

AJ returns !!! Outstanding !

[Argo57]

Fantastic news and well deserved!

[paulwoods13]

Fantastic news. Funny how so many of these great signings have been announced on Saturdays and Sundays. I hope Hogie and Balenovich are getting weekend diff.

Now I know Brescacin is too much to hope for, but Richardson and Lawrence sure would be great re-signs . . .

(And MBT/Muamba, of course. but they've earned however much time they need to take to figure out what comes next.)

[gilthethrill]

3 Down Nation reports that Justin Lawrence, who filled in admirably at C last season for the Grey Cup Champion Toronto Argonauts has agreed to terms on a contract with the Montreal Alouettes.

[paulwoods13]

Brescacin is leaving, not surprisingly. He'll come back to haunt us at some point, especially since I'm betting he ends up starting in Hamilton.

[Scooter McCray]

Brescacin is leaving, not surprisingly. He'll come back to haunt us at some point, especially since I'm betting he ends up starting in Hamilton.I don't know why he never was given more of an opportunity. Hometown kid with talent. He always seemed to play well when given time on the field. Dinwiddie brought him here from Calgary too. Perplexing to say the least.

[OV Argo]

I don't know why he never was given more of an opportunity. Hometown kid with talent. He always seemed to play well when given time on the field. Dinwiddie brought him here from Calgary too. Perplexing to say the least.

And not like he was stuck behind a bunch of Terry Greers & Paul Masottis for playing time with last year's Argos. Hard to argue with a coaching staff the produces a GC win though.

Paul thinks he'll end up starting for the Ticats? - i would be very surprised by this, unless Bo Mitchell lobbies for his ex- team-mate to play ?

[AngeloV]

Good grief. I liked Brescacin, but like Eric Rogers, it should come as no surprise that a guy that has spent more time on the IR than the roster is not highly sought after by the team.

[AngeloV]

I don't know why he never was given more of an opportunity. Hometown kid with talent. He always seemed to play well when given time on the field. Dinwiddie brought him here from Calgary too. Perplexing to say the least.

Again, he was on the injured list more than on the actual roster. I would love to have seen him and Eric Rogers play a lot more than they did, but hard to justify re-signings of players like that. I have confidence in both Brissett and Nield.

[OV Argo]

We'll see how much confidence the Argos offensive thinkers have in Brissett & Nield for next season. Last season, both were 2nd year guys and between them got targeted (Nield 10 of 15; Brissett 10/16) 31 times to produce 20 catches; meanwhile, rookie import receivers Coxie (15/35) & Haydel 6/11) were 21 catches on 46 targets; and veteran Brandon Banks had a similar brutally bad catch to target ratio (37 for 75 = under 50%). Glad Speedy B got his GC ring as an Argo but he should not be playing anywhere close to regular reps in a CFL receiving corps anymore.

[Scooter McCray]

Again, he was on the injured list more than on the actual roster. I would love to have seen him and Eric Rogers play a lot more than they did, but hard to justify re-signings of players like that. I have confidence in both Brissett and Nield.You're right Angelo he and Rogers were injured more than healthy. Rogers for sure. But it seemed like there were stretches where Brescacin was a healthy scratch. He played well when in there. I just wished it turned out better for him here, being a local guy. But yes it's hard to guarantee roster spots to guys who can't stay healthy - Ray, Rogers, Brescacin. It's a physically demanding sport, and some bodies breakdown sooner than others.

[Argo57]

Brescacin is leaving, not surprisingly. He'll come back to haunt us at some point, especially since I'm betting he ends up starting in Hamilton.

Can’t argue with the Argonauts deciding to move on from both Brescasin and Rogers, they have invested enough time and money on both with little production to show for it.

[Scooter McCray]

And not like he was stuck behind a bunch of Terry Greers & Paul Masottis for playing time with last year's Argos. Hard to argue with a coaching staff the produces a GC win though.

Paul thinks he'll end up starting for the Ticats? - i would be very surprised by this, unless Bo Mitchell lobbies for his ex- team-mate to play ?Absolutely OV. They won a championship without him, Rogers, even McManis. Hard to argue. They can be even stronger this year with more continuity. The Argo depth was/is phenomenal. I believe they had more man games lost to injury than any other team by a wide margin over the other teams. A healthy Argo team is a very dangerous one. The Argos were disrespected last year o thought by most pundits and still are. When I listen to podcasts people still talk about them like they are a good team in the East. They won the GC! What more are they supposed to do?

[AngeloV]

You're right Angelo he and Rogers were injured more than healthy. Rogers for sure. But it seemed like there were stretches where Brescacin was a healthy scratch. He played well when in there. I just wished it turned out better for him here, being a local guy. But yes it's hard to guarantee roster spots to guys who can't stay healthy - Ray, Rogers, Brescacin. It's a physically demanding sport, and some bodies breakdown sooner than others.

I’m a big fan and both he and Rogers. I held out hope all year that they would both get in the line up, but in the end, they weren’t needed which makes it easier to move on from both.

[ArgoRavi]

Brescacin is leaving, not surprisingly. He'll come back to haunt us at some point, especially since I'm betting he ends up starting in Hamilton.

I like Brescacin but I am not shaking in my boots that he will come back to haunt the Argos at some point down the road. He is 30 years-old now and has played a grand total of 15 regular season games over the past three CFL seasons. He has had one good CFL season, back in 2018. That the Argos are moving on from him should be a surprise to nobody.

https://www.cfl.ca/players/juwan-brescacin/162304/

[ArgoGabe22]

Brescacin is better than Brissett however at age 30, hasn’t established himself as a starter. Has the potential but injuries are a concern. Still would’ve been nice if they could keep him around for depth but who knows a Cdn vet yields
in salary. Wouldn’t surprise me if he moves on from football entirely. Seems to be into the crypto world.

[paulwoods13]

He will instantly become the best NAT receiver on Hamilton's roster, hence my belief he will start for them. And he will be highly motivated to beat Toronto. His "injuries" were mostly in the imagination of the head coach, IMO. I obviously can't disagree that he wasn't needed last year -- winning the Grey Cup without him is evidence of that. And yes, Brissett and Nield are younger and have great potential. I'd be madder if either of those guys was let go. But Brescacin is going to be highly, highly motivated.

[OV Argo]

Brsecacin might still be able to play and really help a CFL team's receiving corps, but I doubt it will be with the Ticats who are spending money on free agents and re-signs like a drunken sailor - unless he wants to play for CFL minimum wage. The Ticats signed vet Lamar Durant last year as a FA (done more in his CFL career than Brescacin if that makes him "better" - going just by stats as some like to do) and he ended up injured again (similar tub history to Brescacin) and doing little when he did play. Steinauer & Condell's 7 only need apply plan might likely feature a Canadian at little used wide-side WR (not sure Brescacin is a fit there but could do it i guess) and they have Ternowski (who IMO could be very good; just like I thought about a receiver out of the OUA by the name of Gitttens) as an entry level cheap player or could draft another receiver or still use Ungerer there.

[AngeloV]

He will instantly become the best NAT receiver on Hamilton's roster, hence my belief he will start for them. And he will be highly motivated to beat Toronto. His "injuries" were mostly in the imagination of the head coach, IMO. I obviously can't disagree that he wasn't needed last year -- winning the Grey Cup without him is evidence of that. And yes, Brissett and Nield are younger and have great potential. I'd be madder if either of those guys was let go. But Brescacin is going to be highly, highly motivated.

You talk like Brescacin has been a dominant receiver in this league. Truthfully, 1 decent season. His contributions to the Argos include 11 catches for 97 yards over 2 injury plagued seasons. Argos tried to make him the focal point of their offence in the ‘21 Eastern final with plenty of deep balls his way, but he failed to get separation, perhaps it was then that the coaching staff felt he wasn’t going to be what they had hoped for. To suggest he will haunt them is a stretch. Personally, I’d be more worried of Eric Rogers reuniting with BLM and haunting us. At least we know he produces when healthy.

[paulwoods13]

As with every other prediction anyone makes, we will see, won't we?

[OV Argo]

As with every other prediction anyone makes, we will see, won't we?

Ha, ha - we can re-visit come well into the regular season. Brescacin with the Ticats? Nield or Brissett getting a fair amount of reps in the Argo receiving corps ?

[paulwoods13]

Ha, ha - we can re-visit come well into the regular season. Brescacin with the Ticats? Nield or Brissett getting a fair amount of reps in the Argo receiving corps ?

I'm not predicting the latter, altho I'd love to see Nield in particular get worked in. But if Brescacin signs in Hamilton, I'm predicting he has at least one big game for them against Toronto. I also predicted Banks, despite seeming to be washed up, might come in handy against the Cats last year, and that happened on Labour Day.

[Argo57]

He will instantly become the best NAT receiver on Hamilton's roster, hence my belief he will start for them. And he will be highly motivated to beat Toronto. His "injuries" were mostly in the imagination of the head coach, IMO. I obviously can't disagree that he wasn't needed last year -- winning the Grey Cup without him is evidence of that. And yes, Brissett and Nield are younger and have great potential. I'd be madder if either of those guys was let go. But Brescacin is going to be highly, highly motivated.

With all the yearly player movement league wide you could say the same about a ton of players but as defending champions all teams will be motivated to beat the Argos, I guess they should be trembling with fear at the thought Brescacin will be gunning for them?

[AngeloV]

Based on a single tweet of 6ix, looks like Adarius Pickett will be an Argo tomorrow, likely ending the tenure of Chris Edwards as the SAM.

[gilthethrill]

Based on a single tweet of 6ix, looks like Adarius Pickett will be an Argo tomorrow, likely ending the tenure of Chris Edwards as the SAM.

Hate to see Edwards go. He played with emotion as well as on the edge. Always seemed to make a big play. He will help another team without a doubt.

It looks like the 2023 Argo LB core will consist of McManus, Williams and Pickett.

[OV Argo]

Hate to see Edwards go. He played with emotion as well as on the edge. Always seemed to make a big play. He will help another team without a doubt.

It looks like the 2023 Argo LB core will consist of McManus, Williams and Pickett.

Wow - Pickett was very good for the Als last year; that would be a very good LB corps IMO.

[Argo57]

Hate to see Edwards go. He played with emotion as well as on the edge. Always seemed to make a big play. He will help another team without a doubt.

Edwards played very well in Double Blue but I think the Argonauts have improved themselves by signing Pickett.

[paulwoods13]

With all the yearly player movement league wide you could say the same about a ton of players but as defending champions all teams will be motivated to beat the Argos, I guess they should be trembling with fear at the thought Brescacin will be gunning for them?

Obviously not. But I do believe he can still play, and I don't believe he was given much of an opportunity in two wasted years here. He was hurt some of the time, but he was healthy a lot when he was on the IL. For most players, being disrespected individually is at least as powerful a motivator, if not moreso, than wanting to knock off the champs.

[paulwoods13]

Edwards is a good and at times excellent player, and he made a lot of big plays in Double Blue. But he wore out his welcome here. Not wanting to switch positions late in the season so Mace could try some different defensive looks was likely the last straw. His decision to run off the field assuming he'd been tossed from the game, when he hadn't been, likely didn't endear him to the coaches, either.

[Will]

Based on a single tweet of 6ix, looks like Adarius Pickett will be an Argo tomorrow, likely ending the tenure of Chris Edwards as the SAM.

A bit weird that he'd tweet that this evening, unless they agreed to terms prior to noon yesterday.

[OV Argo]

Obviously not. But I do believe he can still play, and I don't believe he was given much of an opportunity in two wasted years here. He was hurt some of the time, but he was healthy a lot when he was on the IL. For most players, being disrespected individually is at least as powerful a motivator, if not moreso, than wanting to knock off the champs.

I agree that Brescacin could likely still play and contribute lots to a CFL team receiving corps; he's never lived-up to his potential (once considered a top 20 sort of NFL receiver draft pick prospect out of US college ball = not many CFL receivers have that on their resumes lately); flashed some very good CFL play - big catch radius and has made some tough or circus grabs; but injured often or else not a heavily targeted receiver when he did play. But with his age and injury history, combined with the CFL GOB trend to only play just one or maybe 2 Canadians in their receiving corps now, I would not be surprised to see little interest in him or else he will just be considered depth / back-up material.

[Argo57]

Obviously not. But I do believe he can still play, and I don't believe he was given much of an opportunity in two wasted years here. He was hurt some of the time, but he was healthy a lot when he was on the IL. For most players, being disrespected individually is at least as powerful a motivator, if not moreso, than wanting to knock off the champs.

Obviously the coaching staff felt other receivers gave them the best chance to win and as it turned out they were correct, the business of professional sports.

[ArgoRavi]

Edwards is a good and at times excellent player, and he made a lot of big plays in Double Blue. But he wore out his welcome here. Not wanting to switch positions late in the season so Mace could try some different defensive looks was likely the last straw. His decision to run off the field assuming he'd been tossed from the game, when he hadn't been, likely didn't endear him to the coaches, either.

Edwards contributed much to the Argos over the past two years but it did seem as though Dinwiddie was getting a little tired of his tantrums in 2022.

[Rich]

Argos tried to make him the focal point of their offence in the ‘21 Eastern final with plenty of deep balls his way, but he failed to get separation

I don’t know if you can pin that on JB when MBT was consistently underthrowing the ball that day.

[Rich]

Hate to see Edwards go. He played with emotion as well as on the edge. Always seemed to make a big play.

One could argue he made possibly the biggest play of the Grey Cup, knocking down the 2nd and 5 pass at the Argo 40 with under a minute to go. It was a spectacular athletic play, and it woulda been a sure 1st down if he missed it. Who’s gonna thank him for his service and all that?

[Rich]

He was hurt some of the time, but he was healthy a lot when he was on the IL.

The fact he was a healthy scratch makes me wonder if he was somehow at odds with the coach and staff. JB doesn’t seem like the disruptive type, but he was making a pretty decent salary I assume, so it could have been a fairly serious issue to keep him healthy on the bench.

[paulwoods13]

The fact he was a healthy scratch makes me wonder if he was somehow at odds with the coach and staff. JB doesn’t seem like the disruptive type, but he was making a pretty decent salary I assume, so it could have been a fairly serious issue to keep him healthy on the bench.

This seems to suggest that if he was at odds with the coach and staff, it must have been something he did. Such things cut both ways, in fact. Coaches sometimes put players into doghouses for reasons fathomable only to the coaches.

[AngeloV]

I don’t know if you can pin that on JB when MBT was consistently underthrowing the ball that day.

Not sure what game you were watching. He had a size mismatch on Adeleke in that game. He should be able to win 50/50 balls in that situation. Underthrown deep ball is usually advantage receiver. If it was overthrown, then there is nothing he can do.

[Argoriffic]

https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor/status/1625526551931502604?s=20

(https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor/status/1625526551931502604?s=20)So it happened:

(https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor)Dave Naylor (https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor) @TSNDaveNaylor (https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor)
Hearing @TorontoArgos (https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos)
have a deal with former @MTLAlouettes (https://twitter.com/MTLAlouettes)
LB/DB Adarius Pickett. #CFL (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hashtag_click) #Argos (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hashtag_click)
<time datetime="2023-02-14T16:05:05.000Z">11:05 AM · Feb 14, 2023</time> (https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor/status/1625526551931502604)·1,335
Views

[ArgoRavi]

I don’t know if you can pin that on JB when MBT was consistently underthrowing the ball that day.

I completely disagree. MBT threw few bad passes that day. I recall likely 5 balls that he threw that his receiver had a chance to make a big play on and the receivers couldn't make the play. Brescacin had at least two of those on that day. I firmly believe that the Argos didn't lose because of MBT that day.

[ArgoGabe22]

I agree that Brescacin could likely still play and contribute lots to a CFL team receiving corps; he's never lived-up to his potential (once considered a top 20 sort of NFL receiver draft pick prospect out of US college ball = not many CFL receivers have that on their resumes lately); flashed some very good CFL play - big catch radius and has made some tough or circus grabs; but injured often or else not a heavily targeted receiver when he did play. But with his age and injury history, combined with the CFL GOB trend to only play just one or maybe 2 Canadians in their receiving corps now, I would not be surprised to see little interest in him or else he will just be considered depth / back-up material.

He was an NFL/NCAA tight end though .

[paulwoods13]

I completely disagree. MBT threw few bad passes that day. I recall likely 5 balls that he threw that his receiver had a chance to make a big play on and the receivers couldn't make the play. Brescacin had at least two of those on that day. I firmly believe that the Argos didn't lose because of MBT that day.

I agree with this as well. For some reason the Argo coaches/managers soured on Brescacin; if it truly was because he did not excel in the 2021 EF, there are a few other guys they might also have soured on, like the guys who covered the punt returned for a TD or the guy who got stripped of the ball after an INT.

[AngeloV]

Brescacin going to have a hard time haunting us now that he is a member of the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

https://twitter.com/farhanlaljitsn/status/1625549245439942656?s=61&t=TqfO_HQqz1IpbYfszG-V5A

[OV Argo]

He was an NFL/NCAA tight end though .

Don't think so.

[AngeloV]

Philip Blake to the Riders. I hate to lose him.

[OV Argo]

Philip Blake to the Riders. I hate to lose him.

Good veteran, but with Bladek, Hunter & the returning Nicastro, plus MacKellar (both Hunter & Mackellar could slide to OT if need be) available for the interior, then unless Blake was going to start at OT again (and he could well win that job, perhaps), then the Argos have the talent and depth where they don't need him anymore.

[OV Argo]

I completely disagree. MBT threw few bad passes that day. I recall likely 5 balls that he threw that his receiver had a chance to make a big play on and the receivers couldn't make the play. Brescacin had at least two of those on that day. I firmly believe that the Argos didn't lose because of MBT that day.

Throwing up 5 jump ball prayers in a big play-off game not a good recipe for success IMO; good patterns & QB reads see the throw hitting the guy in stride.

[Argoriffic]

DL Folarin Orimolade is now an Argo


https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1625551358240645120?s=20

[argolio]

Sorry to see Blake leave. His performance last year at age 36, especially the mid-season move to arguably the most important o-line position of left tackle, was a huge and underrated key to last year's success. Solid leader as well. He will be missed.

[AngeloV]

Throwing up 5 jump ball prayers in a big play-off game not a good recipe for success IMO; good patterns & QB reads see the throw hitting the guy in stride.

Except that’s not today’s football. Teams look for match ups that they can take advantage of.

[Argoriffic]

And another player signed today: Mario Villamizar

https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1625564302336790540?s=20

[argolio]

And another player signed today: Mario Villamizar

https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1625564302336790540?s=20Another Southern Ontario kid coming home. Great name!

[gilthethrill]

Just like every season the CFL looks the other way as Toronto exceeds the Salary Cap.

[argolio]

According to 3downnation:

1:45 p.m. ET — Toronto continues to make moves, this time adding to their pass rush. Defensive end Thomas Costigan has signed with the club for next season.

[OV Argo]

Argos get DE Thomas Costigan - wow - guy is very under-rated and a top notch young DE IMO; idiot Jones in EE gave up on the guy when he would have easily have been the best DE on the team last season; and then he goes to the Als where he is treated as a back-up behind some Als' mediocres ? Hope the Argo D coaches do not under-rate this guy. Him & Robbie Smith + Orimolade playing lots of reps at DE and the Argos will have the best set of young DEs in the league IMO. Thank gawd to (hopefully) no more Charleston Hughes old vet recycling jobs.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Argos get DE Thomas Costigan - wow - guy is very under-rated and a top notch young DE IMO; idiot Jones in EE gave up on the guy when he would have easily have been the best DE on the team last season; and then he goes to the Als where he is treated as a back-up behind some Als' mediocres ? Hope the Argo D coaches do not under-rate this guy. Him & Robbie Smith + Orimolade playing lots of reps at DE and the Argos will have the best set of young DEs in the league IMO. Thank gawd to (hopefully) no more Charleston Hughes old vet recycling jobs.
Nice move by the front office.Jones messed up on that one.

[paulwoods13]

Toronto signs Darius Ciraco. Makes me wonder if Nicastro either isn't healed up or is possibly heading out in a trade.

[paulwoods13]

Good veteran, but with Bladek, Hunter & the returning Nicastro, plus MacKellar (both Hunter & Mackellar could slide to OT if need be) available for the interior, then unless Blake was going to start at OT again (and he could well win that job, perhaps), then the Argos have the talent and depth where they don't need him anymore.

Blake is a great guy who made a huge impact at LT when we really needed him to step up after all the INT o-linemen got hurt. Unfortunately, he became redundant long-term with the arrivals of Hunter and Mackellar. Hunter will start for sure (probably at LG), Mackellar is likely a very solid backup at this point. It's not entirely out of the question that one of them gets bumped out to tackle (more likely Hunter IMO) but I expect the working plan is still to go with INTs at both tackle spots.

[paulwoods13]

Brescacin going to have a hard time haunting us now that he is a member of the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

https://twitter.com/farhanlaljitsn/status/1625549245439942656?s=61&t=TqfO_HQqz1IpbYfszG-V5A

I'm definitely much less troubled by him playing for anyone other than Hamilton, but Sask does play us twice this year. I bet he has TD Atlantic circled as his first opportunity to show Dinwiddie he has more to offer than the coach seemed to think.

[OV Argo]

Toronto signs Darius Ciraco. Makes me wonder if Nicastro either isn't healed up or is possibly heading out in a trade.


Either that, or Hunter is going to be given a shot at OT, leaving Ciraco with Nicastro & Bladek for the interior. Ciraco is a very good O-Lineman.

[AngeloV]

I'm definitely much less troubled by him playing for anyone other than Hamilton, but Sask does play us twice this year. I bet he has TD Atlantic circled as his first opportunity to show Dinwiddie he has more to offer than the coach seemed to think.

Let it go Paul. He really is just a depth receiver. What’s with all the negativity from you regarding all the Argos departures the last couple of years?

[paulwoods13]

Argos get DE Thomas Costigan - wow - guy is very under-rated and a top notch young DE IMO; idiot Jones in EE gave up on the guy when he would have easily have been the best DE on the team last season; and then he goes to the Als where he is treated as a back-up behind some Als' mediocres ? Hope the Argo D coaches do not under-rate this guy. Him & Robbie Smith + Orimolade playing lots of reps at DE and the Argos will have the best set of young DEs in the league IMO. Thank gawd to (hopefully) no more Charleston Hughes old vet recycling jobs.

Don't sleep on Ali Fayed, either. I think he could be something special. That has the makings of an amazing DE rotation.

[paulwoods13]

Let it go Paul. He really is just a depth receiver.

I shouldn't reply to your posts on this subject?

[Will]

Re: Ciraco

Maybe the Argos will slide Hunter out to LT and play either Nicastro or Ciraco at LG. This starts 4 Canadians, but the Argos also re-signed Tate and Cage earlier in the offseason.

I hadn't identified the interior of our line as a need.

[paulwoods13]

What’s with all the negativity from you regarding all the Argos departures the last couple of years?

This was not in your original post, hence I did not reply to it above.

I assume you mean over the past year, since I don't recall making a lot of negative comments about personnel decisions two years ago. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) There are a number of factors for any criticisms I've made, including wanting to field the best possible lineup, impact of moves in the locker room, and other factors. I happen to believe some bad personnel decisions were made, and sometimes for the wrong reasons. Some of my judgments have been borne out by subsequent events, others have not. Regardless, I don't believe mgmt and coaches are exempt from criticism, even from diehard fans.

[OV Argo]

Don't sleep on Ali Fayed, either. I think he could be something special. That has the makings of an amazing DE rotation.


Yeah, forgot about him, and his superb resume, plus got some CFL experience last year. Love to see all 4 of those guys pan-out in the DE rotation; and maybe Dionte Knight beefs up and is just at DT.

[paulwoods13]

Re: Ciraco

Maybe the Argos will slide Hunter out to LT and play either Nicastro or Ciraco at LG. This starts 4 Canadians, but the Argos also re-signed Tate and Cage earlier in the offseason.

I hadn't identified the interior of our line as a need.

Hunter at tackle would certainly create some major roster flexibility. I've always had a preference for tall, lean OTs so at 6-3 he's not my ideal body type for the position. But that might not be the right way of looking at it. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing what he could do at tackle.

[paulwoods13]

Yeah, forgot about him, and his superb resume, plus got some CFL experience last year. Love to see all 4 of those guys pan-out in the DE rotation; and maybe Dionte Knight beefs up and is just at DT.

It's gong to be interesting to see where Knight ends up, but I do think tackle is a distinct possibility.

[Tobin Rote]

Hunter at tackle would certainly create some major roster flexibility. I've always had a preference for tall, lean OTs so at 6-3 he's not my ideal body type for the position. But that might not be the right way of looking at it. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing what he could do at tackle.

Which of our INTs is going are be re-classified to Canadian this season?

[paulwoods13]

Which of our INTs is going are be re-classified to Canadian this season?

Great question. I guess we'll need to look at the roster and see who meets the criteria.

This is the rule, as I understand it: "By definition, a nationalized American is a player starting his sixth season in the CFL or fourth with his current club. Most of them are already starters."

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/canadian-football-leagues-roster-ratio-stood-out-as-contentious-bargaining-issue

On the current roster, I think only Cage, Daniels and Ouellette would qualify.

[Tobin Rote]

Great question. I guess we'll need to look at the roster and see who meets the criteria.

This is the rule, as I understand it: "By definition, a nationalized American is a player starting his sixth season in the CFL or fourth with his current club. Most of them are already starters."

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/canadian-football-leagues-roster-ratio-stood-out-as-contentious-bargaining-issue

(https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/canadian-football-leagues-roster-ratio-stood-out-as-contentious-bargaining-issue)

On the current roster, I think only Cage, Daniels and Ouellette would qualify.


The would be a big advantage in making the final roster for any of those guys right? I remember seeing the great Mark Luster playing for the Argos as a "naturalized" Canadian.

[AngeloV]

This was not in your original post, hence I did not reply to it above.

I assume you mean over the past year, since I don't recall making a lot of negative comments about personnel decisions two years ago. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) There are a number of factors for any criticisms I've made, including wanting to field the best possible lineup, impact of moves in the locker room, and other factors. I happen to believe some bad personnel decisions were made, and sometimes for the wrong reasons. Some of my judgments have been borne out by subsequent events, others have not. Regardless, I don't believe mgmt and coaches are exempt from criticism, even from diehard fans.

Sorry, I meant last off season and this off season. Yes 1 calendar year, but separate seasons.

[AngeloV]

I shouldn't reply to your posts on this subject?

I didn’t say that. I just feel you’re really overreacting about a player that contributed nothing to this team in what has been the best back to back seasons the Argos have had in quite some time.

[OV Argo]

Great question. I guess we'll need to look at the roster and see who meets the criteria.

This is the rule, as I understand it: "By definition, a nationalized American is a player starting his sixth season in the CFL or fourth with his current club. Most of them are already starters."

https://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/canadian-football-leagues-roster-ratio-stood-out-as-contentious-bargaining-issue

On the current roster, I think only Cage, Daniels and Ouellette would qualify.


??? Cage & Ouellette have not been around long; Daniels only a few seasons an Argo, but has accumulated 6 CFL seasons. This Mickey Mouse rule is supposedly for teams to maintain veteran imports, as opposed to constant roster turn-over ? - to maintain some identity for fans perhaps ? It's more just a way for GOBs to get more of their guys playing time in over Canadian players. B$