Bills Owner Says Team Open to Extending Toronto Series

[R.J]

Thought this might be something worth posting.
http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=383370

[bluto]

of course he is. old man Wilson would take as many paydays like these as he can before he croaks. hell, if he gets enough of them, maybe his kids will actually be able to afford inheriting the team and keeping it in Buffalo.

[Ron]

Wrong forum. This should be posted where the TFC stuff goes. (I got your back Angelo!)

[argotom]

No kidding, he fleeced old man Rogers once and now his corporation has not learned any better and wants to continue losing $10M per game.

[ArgoRavi]

No kidding, he fleeced old man Rogers once and now his corporation has not learned any better and wants to continue losing $10M per game.

If I were a Blue Jays fan, I would be wondering why Rogers doesn't spend the money that they waste on the Bills on the Jays instead so that they could finally contend.

[Ron]

No kidding, he fleeced old man Rogers once and now his corporation has not learned any better and wants to continue losing $10M per game.

Or ... what the general public knows about the revenues of the deal are wrong. The $10 mil has always just been media speculation.

That said ... Heck with the Jays ... I wonder how TFC feels about the money Rogers spends on this. And maybe the Bills could play a game at BMO?

[AngeloV]

Wrong forum. This should be posted where the TFC stuff goes. (I got your back Angelo!) You da man, Ron.

[ArgoRavi]

I wonder how TFC feels about the money Rogers spends on this. And maybe the Bills could play a game at BMO?

Sadly, I think that an American-sized football field would fit BMO quite well.

[argolio]

Wilson said one of Rogers' key conditions for renewing the agreement is lowering ticket pricesWhich clearly means Rogers wants to pay less per game in a new deal.

Don't do it Ralph!

[1argoholic]

Wilson says from his home in Detroit?? The guy doesn't even live in Buffalo. I guess the cheap old fart can buy a home for dirt in Motor City. Rogers are morons. If I was a Jays fan I'd be pissed! If I was a Bills fan I'd be pissed.
Wilson still has the smarts at 110 years old. He was around when dirt was invented.

[argotom]

If I were a Blue Jays fan, I would be wondering why Rogers doesn't spend the money that they waste on the Bills on the Jays instead so that they could finally contend.



The BJ are hemorrhaging big time and have lost money every years since owned by Rogers.
I have read business reports how the losses were upwards $100M in the first three years.
So why would they want to spend and lose any more money.
This reminds me of the Expos dying years.

[marcwagz]

The Bills want to use torontos money to make torontos people a fan of buffalos team so the bills can afford to stay in buffalo

Am I the only one who find this completely moronic?
At least it is Rogers money and not actually the peoples, but still how does it not strike rogers that this deal is making it less likely not more that they'll get an nfl franchise?

[Padre29]

I'd heard the bills got upwards of 70 million to play 1 gm per yr there, the other league is absolutely ruthless when it comes to forcing teams out so it is no surprise that terrible bills franchise would welcome more easy money paydays on rogers.

[Will]

The BJ are hemorrhaging big time and have lost money every years since owned by Rogers.
I have read business reports how the losses were upwards $100M in the first three years.
So why would they want to spend and lose any more money.
This reminds me of the Expos dying years.

I would like a source for this please. This isn't the first time that you've made this statement.

[argotom]

I would like a source for this please. This isn't the first time that you've made this statement.

I do recall one of the daily Toronto newspaper saveral years back and maybe even the Business News.
Also, even McCown on Fan 590 commented about this years back.

[1argoholic]

How can The Jays make money with crowds smaller than last years Argo crowds? No one really cares about baseball, soccer or basketball. All LAME!!!!

[Will]

While it doesn't necessarily mean that they are making money, an MLB team has more sources of revenue than a CFL one.

[matchuk]

of course they want to extend...they are only making ten times what they do for bills games in buffalo...rogers is so dumb, the bills/ ralph wilson doesnt care how much they lose

[marcwagz]

How can The Jays make money with crowds smaller than last years Argo crowds? No one really cares about baseball, soccer or basketball. All LAME!!!!

stop being a homer, the argos arent exactly doing great themselves
I happen to be a very large raptor fan myself
the raptors have a fanbase similar in size to the argos (in turn of season ticket holders) but more importantly they are YOUNG fans and they will keep coming back because the nba appeals to a lot of youth around the city while one of the cfl's problems is that its fanbase is generally older and may be in trouble if it starts fading with time.

[argolio]

stop being a homer, the argos arent exactly doing great themselves
I happen to be a very large raptor fan myself
the raptors have a fanbase similar in size to the argos (in turn of season ticket holders) but more importantly they are YOUNG fans and they will keep coming back because the nba appeals to a lot of youth around the city while one of the cfl's problems is that its fanbase is generally older and may be in trouble if it starts fading with time.So he can't be an Argo homer on a Argo forum but it's okay for you to be a Raptor homer on an Argo forum?


I do recall one of the daily Toronto newspaper saveral years back and maybe even the Business News.
Also, even McCown on Fan 590 commented about this years back.If memory serves, I think McCown said a few years ago that he was told they lost at least $20-25 million annually at their worst in the mid-00's.

Speaking of McCown, his contract is up and he wasn't sure if he'd be back on the Fan in the New Year. I wonder if TSN is trying to sign him.

[Ron]

The Bills want to use torontos money to make torontos people a fan of buffalos team so the bills can afford to stay in buffalo

Am I the only one who find this completely moronic?
At least it is Rogers money and not actually the peoples, but still how does it not strike rogers that this deal is making it less likely not more that they'll get an nfl franchise?

This deal does not make it less likely. This deal makes Toronto part of Bills territory so a future possible move of the Bills to Toronto would not be considered a relocation by the NFL. So Toronto in essence is putting themselves at the front of the line if there is no "local" ownership group after Wilson dies. (Ya, I know there's groups that talk right now ... but I'll wait to see Jim Kelly's group write a check before I trust it)

That all said. People focus way way too much on Rogers since Rogers can never own an NFL team. Impossible. The real question to be asked and has never been broached is who is the one guy that can front any NFL team in Toronto? Who is Toronto's Jerry Jones?

[Ron]

of course they want to extend...they are only making ten times what they do for bills games in buffalo...rogers is so dumb, the bills/ ralph wilson doesnt care how much they lose

Kinda hard to call Rogers dumb in the same sentence you claim Rogers only pays 10 times as much as the Bills make for a game. But at least there is symmetry. ;)

[AngeloV]

This deal does not make it less likely. This deal makes Toronto part of Bills territory so a future possible move of the Bills to Toronto would not be considered a relocation by the NFL. So Toronto in essence is putting themselves at the front of the line if there is no "local" ownership group after Wilson dies. (Ya, I know there's groups that talk right now ... but I'll wait to see Jim Kelly's group write a check before I trust it)

That all said. People focus way way too much on Rogers since Rogers can never own an NFL team. Impossible. The real question to be asked and has never been broached is who is the one guy that can front any NFL team in Toronto? Who is Toronto's Jerry Jones?

As much as I hate to admit it, you are right, Ron. The best thing to happen would be for Rogers to give Wilson an offer he refused to take as far as continuing the series goes.

[marcwagz]

So he can't be an Argo homer on a Argo forum but it's okay for you to be a Raptor homer on an Argo forum?


not being a homer just speaking the truth argos have a lot of work to do
I love the argos and canadian football but I can see the appeal of NBA basketball especially to city kids in Toronto

one of the problems with Toronto sports fans is for some reason they appear to be very one dimensional only supporting one or two teams and then actually being against the other teams in the city.

I love the argos, leafs and raptors and toronto rock but I don't want the blue jays and tfc to fail like some around here seem to regardless of how boring I find the sports to be

[matchuk]

Kinda hard to call Rogers dumb in the same sentence you claim Rogers only pays 10 times as much as the Bills make for a game. But at least there is symmetry. ;)

yes, i believe rogers is dumb...reason is because they are paying whatever times (i used 10 as a random number) it costs for a bills game, and have only lost money on this series...

[T-Bone]

Rogers Media, Buffalo Bills extend Toronto deal (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Rogers-Media-Buffalo-Bills-extend-Toronto-deal/012d6a99-d572-4c84-9d8a-c90680570b3b)

[294life]

will they play on real grass?

[1argoholic]

Oh you beat me to it 294life. I guess that grass BS can all go away now. Does Rogers really know what the hell it's doing?

[294life]

Does Rogers really know what the hell it's doing?

has it ever?

[argotom]

This will also go well on April fools day.
Old man Rogers and now his corporation is no better in making stupid business sports related decision.
The Blue Jays continue to be the biggest losers now approaching $300 million.

[1argoholic]

Just shows how much money these fools are making off the backs of hard working Canadians only to screw over a Canadian institution in the Argos and CFL.

[ArgoRavi]

Oh, Keith Pelley, you are as good of a spinner as any of those Rogers folks: http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2013/01/29/buffalo_bills_rogers_centre_reach_deal_to_continue _playing_one_nfl_game_per_season_in_toronto.html

[T-Bone]

will they play on real grass?
If they were to install grass at Rogers Centre the one Bills game a year wouldn't be a factor as it is after the Jays season. They only events that would be affected would be events that take place during the Jays seasons.

[294life]

If they were to install grass at Rogers Centre the one Bills game a year wouldn't be a factor as it is after the Jays season. They only events that would be affected would be events that take place during the Jays seasons.

But they'd still 'ruin' their beautiful grass with their so-called 'foot' and 'ball' which made them expel the Argos in the first place.

[T-Bone]

But they'd still 'ruin' their beautiful grass with their so-called 'foot' and 'ball' which made them expel the Argos in the first place.
Well 10 games vs. 1 game on grass is a big difference in wear and tear. However if I remember correctly the biggest issue would be the seats not being able to be converted if real grass is down. You can't play football in that building in the baseball configurations. Not properly at least.

[argotom]

Oh, Keith Pelley, you are as good of a spinner as any of those Rogers folks: http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2013/01/29/buffalo_bills_rogers_centre_reach_deal_to_continue _playing_one_nfl_game_per_season_in_toronto.html


And to think Pelley was once our President, doesn't he look like a turncoat right about now?

[argofandave]

And to think Pelley was once our President, doesn't he look like a turncoat right about now?
During his time on thefan590 yesterday, he said that "no one is a bigger Argo fan than he is." And he said it TWICE.

[294life]

There's a pic of him holding his son (?) dressed in argo garb and showing off his 2004 ring at the etobicoke sports hall of fame.

[Invader]

Pelly is now the "Ambassador of the NFL in Canada".

Some people question why Rogers is extending the money-losing Bills series for another 5 years? These games were given the stamp of approval by Goodell and NFL, Rogers would have egg on their faces if they backed out. They want to maintain their "relationship" with the NFL. The $30-$40 million Rogers will probably lose on these games is not a factor.

For example, the Blue Jays have lost nearly half a billion since Rogers purchased the team (Ted Rogers admitted the Jays lost $300 million from 2000 to 2008 in a Macleans article), but Ted thought it was worth it for the "branding" opportunity. Same goes with Rogers and the NFL, I guess. Rogers Media had over $12.4 billion in revenues last year, so they can well absorb these losses.

For the $78 million Rogers gave Ralph Wilson to host 7 Bills games (Rogers bought the TV rights in a seperate deal) they could have outbid TSN for the 5-year package of CFL games, which included 360 regular season games, 20 playoff and 5 Grey Cup games. TSN probably made $30-$40 million on the CFL.

Is it not too late for the Argos to get involved with the York stadium project? (which probably would have to be completely redesigned and relocated for the Argos.)

[1argoholic]

One NFl game would rip the crap our of their turf field which they'd then have plenty of time to repair. No other things going on but they could repair. TOOLS!

Pelly has to talk the talk as he's getting his pockets filled by the bad folks at Rogers. Too bad we didn't have an owner at the time who could have purchased Skydome for the song and a dance that Rogers did.

To think of the excitement in the GTA back when we knew Skydone was going to be built. I remember Argo fans loving it. Now we're treated like bags of crap in this stadium.

[AngeloV]

But they'd still 'ruin' their beautiful grass with their so-called 'foot' and 'ball' which made them expel the Argos in the first place.

It wouldn't surprise me if the grass can be removed and stored somewhere between November and March. That would be their "out" as far as an explanation goes.

[ArgoRavi]

One NFl game would rip the crap our of their turf field which they'd then have plenty of time to repair. No other things going on but they could repair. TOOLS!

Pelly has to talk the talk as he's getting his pockets filled by the bad folks at Rogers. Too bad we didn't have an owner at the time who could have purchased Skydome for the song and a dance that Rogers did.

To think of the excitement in the GTA back when we knew Skydone was going to be built. I remember Argo fans loving it. Now we're treated like bags of crap in this stadium.

For many years, could they not make the conversion at SkyDome from baseball to football and vice versa in one day? I certainly seem to recall them doing so. Why can't they do that now? Also, this scheduling problem for the Argos seems to only have happened since Rogers took over the stadium. Why is the Argos' scheduling such a problem now but wasn't before?

[1argoholic]

Exactly Ravi. I can't imagine having to deal with Rogers on a major corporate level. They must be total Richards.

[294life]

One NFl game would rip the crap our of their turf field which they'd then have plenty of time to repair. No other things going on but they could repair. TOOLS!

Pelly has to talk the talk as he's getting his pockets filled by the bad folks at Rogers. Too bad we didn't have an owner at the time who could have purchased Skydome for the song and a dance that Rogers did.

To think of the excitement in the GTA back when we knew Skydone was going to be built. I remember Argo fans loving it. Now we're treated like bags of crap in this stadium.

I remember how impossible it was to get a ticket for a blue jays game back then. Bring back those good ole days.

[Mulder]

My opinion is that Rogers had to renew these games to save face. Had they not renewed, it would have been seen as a complete failure and Rogers would be admitting that. Tons of negative media attention about not renewing the games would come out and sway public opinion.

Rogers obviously paid much less for these games, I still wouldn't be surprised if it was in the 6-9 million per game range.

The renewal is simply about Damage Control.

[doubleblue]

I know there has been some major break throughs in Science and Inventions lately, but I just don't get it with real grass in the SkyDome. Unless they can now grow grass in some kind of shallow containers that could be removed for other events. The cement floor would have to be removed, earth and drainage pipes installed to allow real grass to grow. Once they do that then all other events, like monster jam and the like would ruin any natural grass. If they do go with real grass , then it would be a Jays only play ground from Spring until Fall. I suppose they could put some stages etc. on the grass over the Winter Months and then resod in the Spring. I used to love those resodding after the CNE. lol
Sounds like a Paul Beeston fairly tale IMO.

[Will]

My opinion is that Rogers had to renew these games to save face. Had they not renewed, it would have been seen as a complete failure and Rogers would be admitting that. Tons of negative media attention about not renewing the games would come out and sway public opinion.

Rogers obviously paid much less for these games, I still wouldn't be surprised if it was in the 6-9 million per game range.

The renewal is simply about Damage Control.

Yeah, but what happens when the next set of games are unsuccessful?

[Mulder]

Yeah, but what happens when the next set of games are unsuccessful?

Buffalo will be getting a new stadium after their current lease expires. 2022. I wouldn't be surprised if these games continue until then.

[1argoholic]

Is Rogers really that filthy rich that they can continue to lose serious money on the Jays and this Bills series? Something has to give eventually or are they just that caught up in saving some sort of face as Mulder mentions. Once again, I don't think they have a clue on the pro sports end of things. These fools don't realize that just because Buffalo is the closest NFL team to Toronto doesn't mean that all of TO's NFL fans cheer for them. In 40 years of living in Mississauga I didn't have one friend ever who was a Bills fan. I remember guys going to Rich Stadium to watch their teams play against the Bills. Even when Buffalo was losing all of those Super Bowls in a row there wasn't the wagon jumper fans. Most people I knew mostly looked at Buffalo as the house fire capital of North America that is generally a pit.

Now we have more years to yap on and on about this bs.

[Ballstothewall]

I would like a source for this please. This isn't the first time that you've made this statement.

Here the link, right from Ted Rogers. The Jays have lost over 300 Million in the last few years


http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/05/18/the-wit-and-wisdom-of-ted-rogers/

[Ballstothewall]

Pro sports also appeared on Rogers’s radar, despite the fact that Rogers himself wasn’t a sports fan. He bought the Toronto Blue Jays in 2000 and later the SkyDome stadium where they played, renaming it the Rogers Centre. Again, it was despite the better judgment of some board members and close advisers. Though the team continued to be a massive money-loser—roughly $300 million in losses by 2008—he would later explain it was about more than the bottom line. “Don’t get me wrong: $300 million is a lot of money,” Rogers stated. “But I take a broader view. We would have paid the same money just for the equivalent branding opportunity.” Ownership of the stadium also opened the door to a five-year, US$78-million deal in 2008 to bring the NFL Buffalo Bills to play eight games in Toronto.

[1argoholic]

What's this Weekend At Ted's? I thought the old fart died long before this article.

[ArgoRavi]

Pro sports also appeared on Rogers’s radar, despite the fact that Rogers himself wasn’t a sports fan. He bought the Toronto Blue Jays in 2000 and later the SkyDome stadium where they played, renaming it the Rogers Centre. Again, it was despite the better judgment of some board members and close advisers. Though the team continued to be a massive money-loser—roughly $300 million in losses by 2008—he would later explain it was about more than the bottom line. “Don’t get me wrong: $300 million is a lot of money,” Rogers stated. “But I take a broader view. We would have paid the same money just for the equivalent branding opportunity.” Ownership of the stadium also opened the door to a five-year, US$78-million deal in 2008 to bring the NFL Buffalo Bills to play eight games in Toronto.

Paul Godfrey is the person who convinced Rogers to buy the Blue Jays and chase an NFL franchise.

[argotom]

Here the link, right from Ted Rogers. The Jays have lost over 300 Million in the last few years


http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/05/18/the-wit-and-wisdom-of-ted-rogers/


The article says $300M up to 2008.
Wow, now 4 years later this amount is getting close to one half billion.
Looks good on them.

[1argoholic]

It was Teds dying wish to be dragged around to one Bills game a year in TO no matter the cost. They drag him in and prop him up in a private box. haha

[Argocister]

It was Teds dying wish to be dragged around to one Bills game a year in TO no matter the cost. They drag him in and prop him up in a private box. haha

ROFL
Thats just too funny!

now every time i pass a Rogers store..... I'll be thinking of Ted at the Bills game.

[argos1873]

Is Rogers really that filthy rich that they can continue to lose serious money on the Jays and this Bills series?


If you are or have ever been a Rogers customer, you will already know the answer to this question. Until the CRTC revokes Rogers virtual licence to virtually print cash, via monopolistic and unfair practices, they will continue to be able to waste cash that they've extracted from the backs of customers AND taxpayers. Oh but Rogers isn't all bad. Did you hear about their new refund policy? If Rogers isn't 100% satisfied with your money, they will refund it to you.

[argolio]

The article says $300M up to 2008.
Wow, now 4 years later this amount is getting close to one half billion.
Looks good on them.With annual revenues for Rogers somewhere around $13 billion, they probably don't care.

[tc23]

With annual revenues for Rogers somewhere around $13 billion, they probably don't care.

Yup, If the Jays were not owned by rogers, they would be like the Expos, GONE ! and the Dome would still be SkyDome !!

[AngeloV]

Yup, If the Jays were not owned by rogers, they would be like the Expos, GONE ! and the Dome would still be SkyDome !!

Oh..One can only dream!!