Game Thread: Toronto Argonauts @ Calgary Stampeders

[Will]

One last road trip prior to coming back to BMO Field.

This game makes me nervous, the Argos have struggled at McMahon mightily over the years.

[ArgoGabe22]

Trap game? :p

[Scooter McCray]

Trap game if there is one will be the next game against Ottawa at home. I expect the Argos to make club history by beating Calgary to begin a season 7-0 for the first time in team history.

[Scooter McCray]

One last road trip prior to coming back to BMO Field.

This game makes me nervous, the Argos have struggled at McMahon mightily over the years.Agreed, however these are not the same Stampeders. It was always the Calgary defence which caused the most problems. Most of those problems play for the Argos now.

[AngeloV]

No such thing as a trap game. Argos should win this game. Both teams are on short weeks, but Calgary is on a really short week.

[gilthethrill]

I look forward to HC Dickenson’s continued frustrated comments after the Stampeders drop another. Guy isn’t accustomed to losing.

[Waffle]

ARGOS, STAMPS INJURY REPORTS:
CAREY LIMITED, COXIE FULL ON TUE
https://www.cfl.ca/2023/08/01/argos-stamps-injury-reports-carey-limited-coxie-full-on-tue/
TORONTO — The Toronto Argonauts and Calgary Stampeders have shared their first injury reports ahead of their game on Friday at BMO Field.

Toronto started their week of practice on Tuesday without defensive back Maurice Carnell (knee), linebacker Henoc Muamba (https://www.cfl.ca/players/henoc-muamba/158169/) (knee) and fullback Spencer Nichols (https://www.cfl.ca/players/spencer-nichols/167953/) (head).
Wide receivers Markeith Ambles (https://www.cfl.ca/players/markeith-ambles/162161/) (ankle) and Damonte Coxie (https://www.cfl.ca/players/damonte-coxie/166556/) (ankle) were full participants.

The Stampeders held a walkthrough on Tuesday after playing on Sunday against the Alouettes in Montreal.
Running back Ka’Deem Carey (toe) and wide receiver Tre Odoms-Dukes (https://www.cfl.ca/players/tre-odoms-dukes/166753/) (rib) were amongst five players listed as limited for Calgary, while long snapper Aaron Crawford (https://www.cfl.ca/players/aaron-crawford/158948/) (calf) and wide receiver Cole Tucker (https://www.cfl.ca/players/cole-tucker/) (foot) sat out on Tuesday.

[Scooter McCray]

Thats great news about Ambles and Coxie. Expect a bounce back game by the offence.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I would like to see the Argos offence have a great game after last week. Show us that was just a hiccup, and keep playing at an elite level.

The last time the Argos went 6-0, they lost the last three after that and did not make the playoffs. Sure that was 88 years ago, but the Argos have a tendency to repeat history.

Don't screw around and get the win.

[Stevoman]

I'm glad Ambles and Coxie will be available. Anyone know the timeline for Muamba? He was 6 gamed originally so is he now week to week?

[ArgoRavi]

I'm glad Ambles and Coxie will be available. Anyone know the timeline for Muamba? He was 6 gamed originally so is he now week to week?

Given that Muamba isn't yet practising, I wouldn't expect him back terribly soon. Maybe the best case scenario is the game at home to Calgary on August 25th? That would be following the Argos' final bye week of the season.

Here's the key question concerning Ambles - how do the Argos get him back into the lineup? Which American on the roster should he replace?

[gilthethrill]

Given that Muamba isn't yet practising, I wouldn't expect him back terribly soon. Maybe the best case scenario is the game at home to Calgary on August 25th? That would be following the Argos' final bye week of the season.

Here's the key question concerning Ambles - how do the Argos get him back into the lineup? Which American on the roster should he replace?

Replacing the France born American Place Kicker could be an option…..(sarcasm).

[paulwoods13]

I'm glad Ambles and Coxie will be available. Anyone know the timeline for Muamba? He was 6 gamed originally so is he now week to week?

We'll have a better idea tomorrow when the depth chart comes out but I'm predicting he gets six-gamed again. It only makes sense if he's not healthy enough to even practice that he be put there to protect the idea of saving his salary against the cap. I personally think we won't see him in the lineup until the fall.

[paulwoods13]

Here's the key question concerning Ambles - how do the Argos get him back into the lineup? Which American on the roster should he replace?

IMO none of the American receivers has done anything to warrant being sat, but I think Phillips is the most likely. I definitely would not dress Ambles in place of an American defensive tackle.

[Scooter McCray]

We'll have a better idea tomorrow when the depth chart comes out but I'm predicting he gets six-gamed again. It only makes sense if he's not healthy enough to even practice that he be put there to protect the idea of saving his salary against the cap. I personally think we won't see him in the lineup until the fall.Do you know the extent of his knee injury? Good thing they got Williams in the off season and their linebacker depth is so good. If he is available for the final 6 games and a playoff run he can still finish his career in style.

[paulwoods13]

Do you know the extent of his knee injury? Good thing they got Williams in the off season and their linebacker depth is so good. If he is available for the final 6 games and a playoff run he can still finish his career in style.

I have no idea how injured he is. The fact he is at every game on the sideline tells me he is still contributing to the club in a positive way, but whether he will ever get back on the field is an open question at this point. We definitely do need Williams back at full speed since that gives us much more roster flex.

[paulwoods13]

The depth chart is out. Major changes are Ciraco sits (1-game IL), with Nicastro back at centre and Mackellar starting at RG. Richards is now backing up on the o-line (along with Noll).

Jamal Peters sits (1-game IL) and is replaced by McFadden, who lines up alongside Amos. Stiggers plays the other CB alongside Daniel.

Backups/STers in are Adeboboye, Hagerty and Marion; out are Nichols (6-gm IL), Sutton (PR) and Kwamou (PR).

Nield has come off the 6-game and been added to practice roster. Haydel gets another start at WR with Coxie still on 1-game IL.

8 d-linemen dressed including all three American DTs. Officially (based on the depth chart and the impenetrable use of "designated Americans" and "nationalized Americans," McManis is backing up Jones at OLB, with Williams starting at ILB. In reality I expect we will see McManis on the field for virtually every snap, with Jones and Williams dividing the other spot.

Cage and Costigan are both on the 1-game IL. On the 6 are Muamba (2nd stint), Priester (2nd stint), Nichols, Carnell (2nd stint), Giffen and Bladek (2nd stint).

[ArgoRavi]

They are being very careful with Coxie, as he did fully participate in practice on Tuesday and Wednesday. Bladek did too, but I am guessing that they don't have a spot for him at the moment and he carries a big ticket. It is incredible just how much depth this team has.

[gilthethrill]

The Peters injury seemed to come out of no where.

[paulwoods13]

The Peters injury seemed to come out of no where.

IMO it's possible they are doing with Peters and McFadden what they did earlier with Oakman and Brinkman -- rotating in and out to keep everyone involved. Peters might be a healthy scratch just as Oakman was a couple of weeks ago.

[AngeloV]

I don’t like the idea of sitting Peters out. I would sit Jones because IMO, they have better Canadian depth at LB than at DB.

[Retrogorilla 2]

Just hope to see more of a complete game from the offense. That last few have seen the 'O' go missing after the 1st half.
Amazing if we can go 7-0! Let's do it, boys!

[AngeloV]

Just hope to see more of a complete game from the offense. That last few have seen the 'O' go missing after the 1st half.
Amazing if we can go 7-0! Let's do it, boys!

Argos have played to the score all season. I am not concerned with the 2ns halves. In the 2 games where the lead was threatened and they needed to score, they did both in Montreal and Hamilton. Argos have played to run clock with big 2nd half leads, running the ball a lot, especially on first down.

As for tonight, i can see the Argos D getting a lot of sacks tonight. Sounds like Dickenson wants Maier to concentrate on not turning the ball over. That tells me he will be eating it, rather than force the throws as he has done while pressured this year.

[bluto]

This looks like a game that Peters might've been successful at picking one or two. Particularly if, despite what Dickenson wants from Maier, he reverts to his form when he feels the heat and forces some throws.

[Will]

Mills running the ball well in that first quarter for Calgary.

[Will]

3 penalties against on that drive. Clean it up boys.

[jerrym]

Mills running the ball well in that first quarter for Calgary.

Calgary looked impressive in their TD drive busting through the Argo D with the ground game better than any other team so far.

[jerrym]

Love the way the Argos immediately answer Calgary's TD with a TD bomb pass. This is a team of fighters that concedes nothing.

[jerrym]

Leake has improved so much since his first game with the Argos to become one of the top PRs.

[Will]

I hope that Pickett is OK.

[Will]

Kelly down, Ouellette down, Pickett down

I hate that stupid stadium

[jerrym]

Hope Pickett isn't out long, especially with Peters out. Pickett, like Peters, has been outstanding.

[jerrym]

There is pass interference and then there is PASS INTERFERENCE so blatant by Calgary on Moxie.

[Will]

There is pass interference and then there is PASS INTERFERENCE so blatant by Calgary on Moxie.

Haydel, oh the PI was on Moxie.

[Will]

Dukes INT in the endzone, the Argos might get out of the half down 10-7 and nope...

[jerrym]

With Kelly out, Ouellette breaks tackle after tackle to help out the rookie QB on a nice 9 yard run, knowing how important the run game now is. That's what makes AJ a team leader.

[Will]

With Kelly out, Ouellette breaks tackle after tackle to help out the rookie QB on a nice 9 yard run, knowing how important the run game now is. That's what makes AJ a team leader.

Yeah then the rookie QB throws a ball he has no business throwing.

[jerrym]

There should have been a penalty on the interception by Moxie who was pushing off the Argo receiver on the pass from Duke.

[Argo57]

Seems like one of those nights so far.
TSN2 now featuring PFC (Pillow Fight Championship)…..the dumbest thing I’ve seen in years.

[Will]

Seems like one of those nights so far.
TSN2 now featuring PFC (Pillow Fight Championship)…..the dumbest thing I’ve seen in years.

I have to watch for few minutes though.

[jerrym]

Costly mistake by Leake fumbling return puts the Argos in difficult position with a rookie QB trying to play catch up in the second half. My biggest concern from the beginning of the season has been the lack of an experienced backup QB. I hope Duke proves me wrong or Kelly comes back in second half.

[gilthethrill]

Kelly going down is Argo fans worst night mare confirmed. Team decided to roll the dice with Dukes and Scott….lets see what happens.

[Will]

Going to roll with Dukes.

[jerrym]

Not a good sign with Dukes throwing the pass that is a golden interception opportunity that is fortunately is dropped with three Stamps near the WR.

[Will]

Sloppy tackling by the Argos extends a Stamps drive.

[jerrym]

Argos missing a lot of tackles compared to previous games.

[Argo57]

Argos missing a lot of tackles compared to previous games.

Calgary’s RT doing a better job of tackling tonight than the Argonauts D.

[kellynjk]

Find the Argos are generally looking sloppy tonight, missing tackles, some dumb penalties etc. With Dukes inexperience, I think the whole team needs to get sharper. Sounds like Kelly is not coming back for the second half, but maybe it's not too serious as Dinwiddie says he could go in, but likely won't.

[jerrym]

Good to see nice long incomplete throw and ten plus yard by Duke.

[Argo57]

Dukes deep pass was on the money, need to catch those.

[Will]

Dukes deep pass was on the money, need to catch those.

Need to help the kid

[Will]

He doesn't need to throw the ball 50 yards every time.

[Argo57]

Abysmal tackling display tonight.

[Will]

The defense is trying it's best tonight, but unless they can force a turnover...

[Argo57]

Argo receivers are doing Dukes no favours tonight.

[jerrym]

Dukes showing some arm strength and some running ability but he is lucky that two more likely INTs were dropped. I agree Argo receivers are not helping him.

[ArgoGabe22]

Argo receivers are doing Dukes no favours tonight.

Doesn’t matter who the QB is if they can’t hold onto the ball. I’m glad RD decided to rest Kelly.

[Will]

Need a stop here for any hope.

[dmont]

I had a feeling this would happen.Where do i begin? Trayvon Tate with the TSN turning point, blocking hands to the face for no reason and nullifying the big brisset catch.Dline has been garbage. Calgary running all over them. Embarassing. Its 2nd and 3 all night long.DBs are useless. Cant tackle anybody in the open field. Welcome back Hagerty, now sit him down on the bench. Cant make a tackle to save his life. Only Metchie is worth anything.Dukes looking like a rookie, but hes getting no help. Receivers putting in no effort. Oline taking penalties.Taking Kelly out of the game was the right decision. With such a piss poor defense, Kelly probably wouldnt even make a difference.Once again, Maier is an argo killer and Mcmahon stadium is a slaughterhouse.

[gilthethrill]

I thought the Argos looked like a team that has been on the road for a month right from the start.

[Retrogorilla 2]

Call me a crazy conspiracy nut but it's games like this that makes me think that some of these games are pre-determined. Honestly...some of the "tackling" verges on comical tonight. Play calling decisions verging on the retarded...
Champions haven't been able to score since early in the 1st quarter...seriously...i don't expect to win every game but I'm not watching the same team I was watching before.
If I'm wrong...goood chance, I'll admit...Dukes sucks nevertheless. We're 2 players away from being the Ti-Cats.

[jerrym]

Mills would still have had a fine game rushing but the loss of Brinkman definitely hurt the run defence.

[TrueBlueGuy]

heapin' helpin' of Humble Pie tonite. Lots to be critical of, but if we really are a good team, we will bounce back at home.

[TrueBlueGuy]

another key point...when a team is AVERAGING 30-points a game, and scores 7 against a mediocre D, you can see how much the QB means to our team.

[Will]

Maier was hardly a world-beater tonight. What he didn't do was turn the ball over.

Calgary has run the ball very effectively, but I'll just view it as an aberration.

At the end of the day, Argos D only gave up 13 points (assuming CGY doesn't add anything here).

[gilthethrill]

Maier was hardly a world-beater tonight. What he didn't do was turn the ball over.

Calgary has run the ball very effectively, but I'll just view it as an aberration.

At the end of the day, Argos D only gave up 13 points (assuming CGY doesn't add anything here).

Maier ran a very effective “XFL” offence tonight. He didn’t throw the ball in the air more that 30 yards. A team won’t win many games with that philosophy. Calgary and Dickenson both suck.

[Argo57]

Maier was hardly a world-beater tonight. What he didn't do was turn the ball over.

Calgary has run the ball very effectively, but I'll just view it as an aberration.

At the end of the day, Argos D only gave up 13 points (assuming CGY doesn't add anything here).

Maier doesn’t impress me at all TBH.
Argos are now 6-1 which isn’t too shabby.
Sometimes games like this can serve as a wake up call which maybe what they need at this point, they haven’t been sharp for a couple of games.

[Waffle]

We often hear about the three facets of the game, offence, defence, special teams. There is a 4th facet.....Coaching. The Argos were prepared to play the Calgary Colts tonight, not the Stampeders and that is on the coaching staff.

Even if you had put Dukes at QB in the Calgary offence with all the short passes I bet there would have been multiple interceptions. For every pass he completes, he badly misses one.

It was pretty obvious from the play of the Calgary offensive line and Toronto's front 7 who wanted this game more. Just like Winnipeg against BC last night.

Hopefully they will be better next week.

[Shatto]

Kelly, Stiggers, Brinkman all out of the game with injuries, that really hurt. Both OL and DL outplayed. MacKellar (OL) especially, looked weak. Hopefully, Bladek will be in at RG in the next game. Dukes looked like he is 2 to 3 years away from being a competent QB. Maybe he just doesn't have the talent.

If Kelly is out for any amount of time, this team is in deep trouble.

If Kelly is out for an extended period of time, the team better start looking for another QB. Could MBT be enticed back? While I'm on a roll in a complaining mood, I am still irked that the team drafted a WR who may never play for them, while Clarke, could have been taken. Another case of a U Sport WR being under valued.

[Will]

I get the sense that Kelly could have returned if there was more at stake.

[Will]

We often hear about the three facets of the game, offence, defence, special teams. There is a 4th facet.....Coaching. The Argos were prepared to play the Calgary Colts tonight, not the Stampeders and that is on the coaching staff.

Even if you had put Dukes at QB in the Calgary offence with all the short passes I bet there would have been multiple interceptions. For every pass he completes, he badly misses one.

It was pretty obvious from the play of the Calgary offensive line and Toronto's front 7 who wanted this game more. Just like Winnipeg against BC last night.

Hopefully they will be better next week.

Hard to say because of the Kelly injury. Calgary seems to have Dinwiddie's number to some extent, however. He is 1-3 against them.

[jerrym]

Calgary seems to have Dinwiddie's number to some extent, however. He is 1-3 against them.

Well they do know him better than they know any other team's HC.

[Will]

Well they do know him better than they know any other team's HC.

Granted, but you'd hope it go both ways.

[Will]

The last three meaningful games the Argos have lost have been to the Calgary Stampeders.

[ArgoRavi]

Kelly down, Ouellette down, Pickett down

I hate that stupid stadium

Don't forget about Brinkman, who unlike the others, is likely out for a while. He could be seen on the sideline on crutches.

[ArgoRavi]

I thought the Argos looked like a team that has been on the road for a month right from the start.

True. They have been playing on the road for four straight games and five of the first seven and, no, there's no way that the game in Halifax was a home game.

[ArgoRavi]

I get the sense that Kelly could have returned if there was more at stake.

And if he had, who knows how this game might have gone?

[Stevoman]

I hate seeing them lose but the only positive is that our back up QB got some very valuable game reps.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Dukes is alright. The receivers let him down tonight.

[paulwoods13]

MacKellar (OL) especially, looked weak. Hopefully, Bladek will be in at RG in the next game. Dukes looked like he is 2 to 3 years away from being a competent QB. Maybe he just doesn't have the talent.


MacKellar was manhandled more than once last night. When Ciraco and Nicastro have both been in, the line has looked good. But MacKellar is still a long way from being capable of starting regularly, IMO, and I have no faith in Richards and no expectation that Noll is ready yet. Giffen looked great against Edm, but got six-gamed and who knows when he'll be back. Trading Bladek would be a huge mistake, IMO.

I'm not ready to give up on Dukes based on one game. Backup QBs get very few reps in practice these days. The coaches presumably saw something in him to elevate him over the more highly touted Scott. In any case, we better hope Kelly's injury is not serious because lack of experience at QB has been the biggest weakness of this team from Day 1.

[Shatto]

I'm glad and a little surprised that others still have faith in Duke. It is true his receivers let him done on occasion but 8 of 15 for 63 yds and 1 (should have been 3) interception wont cut it. Hopefully I'm wrong in my assessment of him and he does play better with more preparation.

Whatever defensive schemes the Argos are using it seems to leave them vulnerable to the short passing game. Maier was 22 of 24 passes.

Tate, who had impressed until last night had a poor game. Perhaps Cage (please stay injury free!) added to the OL along with Bladek, should see the OL greatly improved over last night's. If for some reason or other Bladek is unavailable, then Ciraco and Nicastro should be able to do the job.

Pickett did not look too badly injured and he should be ready for the next game (hopefully) If not, then Daniel could move to SAM and Peters could be back at CB with Stiggers in at half.

Oh well, 6 and 1 is not a bad record.

[Retrogorilla 2]

Now that the booze and frustration has worn off, haha, I'm bummed they couldn't be 7-0 going into next week's game...their start was getting to be a newsworthy story.
Argos didn't look themselves at all last night. Hope Kelly is OK for the Redblacks game.

[ArgoGabe22]

Hopefully Coxie is back. I’m really not a fan of Haydel tbh.

[ArgoRavi]

MacKellar was manhandled more than once last night. When Ciraco and Nicastro have both been in, the line has looked good. But MacKellar is still a long way from being capable of starting regularly, IMO, and I have no faith in Richards and no expectation that Noll is ready yet. Giffen looked great against Edm, but got six-gamed and who knows when he'll be back. Trading Bladek would be a huge mistake, IMO.

I'm not ready to give up on Dukes based on one game. Backup QBs get very few reps in practice these days. The coaches presumably saw something in him to elevate him over the more highly touted Scott. In any case, we better hope Kelly's injury is not serious because lack of experience at QB has been the biggest weakness of this team from Day 1.

Dinwiddie seemed confident after the game that both Kelly and Pickett will be able to play next week; however, he may decide to sit both of them to be 100% certain with a bye week following that game. He talked about Dukes getting first team reps all week coming up if he chooses not to play Kelly.

Regarding the offensive line, perhaps it's time to get Bladek back in although even having Nicastro move back to guard and Ciraco in at centre would be an improvement. Tate has played very well but struggled a bit last night. I could see Cage returning to that left tackle spot next week. It was good to see Richards return to the lineup, as I do have confidence in him to fill in capably at guard or tackle if needed.

[ArgoRavi]

Hopefully Coxie is back. I’m really not a fan of Haydel tbh.

I think that Haydel has potential but needs more development. Coxie should be back in next week. As Ben Grant mentioned last night, Dinwiddie tends to be very cautious with returning injured players to the lineup - basically, he seems to wait one additional week from the time the player has been cleared to return.

[AngeloV]

It was a rough game once Kelly left, no doubt. But when he had time to throw, I thought Dukes threw the ball well. His almost picks will get eliminated with more experience. Really, Gittens and Phillips should have caught his 2 best throws of the night. Yes, the defenders made good plays separating the ball from their hands, but they both had the catch made before the ball was separated. As a receiver, you know you have to catch those, show stronger hands. It likely would hav been a 3 point game if he didn't throw that pick in the end zone,. but Haydel really can't let that ball get picked either. You have to break that up, and not just wait and hope the ball arrives.

I too see no reason for Haydel to be playing. Personally, I would have played Gittens in that spot, with Brissett moving to Gittens' spot and Ungerer to Brissett's, and Nield as the extra receiver. But that's just me.

I see a lot of Dinwiddie bashing on the Facebook fans page, led by an idiot that sits in row 1 of my section at BMO, who will remain nameless (Bruins suck, by the way). That's just pure Stupidity. The team's record with him as coach speaks for itself.

[ArgoGabe22]

I had no issues with Dukes at all. Worst one was the INT before the half. Other than that I had no real high expectations given his lack of experience. Ungerer has shown more in one game than Haydel has in camp + 2 starts. I don’t get what prompts him in being the next man up .

[paulwoods13]

In Haydel's defence, we saw almost nothing from Coxie last season and now he feels like a key part of the offence. Perhaps Haydel will develop in a similar fashion, although I'm not overly optimistic. He seems small, and he made one horrendous gaffe last season (the throwback that went forward on a kick return in Edmonton) that he will always have a hard time living down. Like AV, I would definitely like to see Nield back in the lineup ASAP.

[Rich]

The coaches presumably saw something in him to elevate him over the more highly touted Scott.

Surely the first time ever the words “Bryan Scott” and “highly touted” appeared in the same sentence.

[Argo57]

It was a rough game once Kelly left, no doubt. But when he had time to throw, I thought Dukes threw the ball well. His almost picks will get eliminated with more experience. Really, Gittens and Phillips should have caught his 2 best throws of the night. Yes, the defenders made good plays separating the ball from their hands, but they both had the catch made before the ball was separated. As a receiver, you know you have to catch those, show stronger hands. It likely would hav been a 3 point game if he didn't throw that pick in the end zone,. but Haydel really can't let that ball get picked either. You have to break that up, and not just wait and hope the ball arrives.

I too see no reason for Haydel to be playing. Personally, I would have played Gittens in that spot, with Brissett moving to Gittens' spot and Ungerer to Brissett's, and Nield as the extra receiver. But that's just me.

I see a lot of Dinwiddie bashing on the Facebook fans page, led by an idiot that sits in row 1 of my section at BMO, who will remain nameless (Bruins suck, by the way). That's just pure Stupidity. The team's record with him as coach speaks for itself.

I can’t argue with any of this Angelo, the receivers did Dukes no favours last night.
Hate to see Kelly (or any starting CFL QB get injured) but the Argonauts need to stick with the process of developing their younger quarterbacks.
Dinwiddie and his staff have this team sitting up top of the Eastern Division at 6-1 and oh yeah are coming off a World Championship, dorks like the one you mentioned who have nothing better to do than roast the guy after his first loss of the season are laughable TBH.

[Will]

I guess it's a good thing that I quit most Argo Facebook groups then?

[AngeloV]

I guess it's a good thing that I quit most Argo Facebook groups then?

I did too. My brother brought it to my attention.

[AngeloV]

Surely the first time ever the words “Bryan Scott” and “highly touted” appeared in the same sentence.

well. he sure isn't Khalil Tate.

[Rich]

well. he sure isn't Khalil Tate.

Khalil Tate was indeed highly touted, and he didn't amount to much, did he?

I think either Dukes or Scott will end up going forward with the team, and Dukes at this point looks like he's got the inside track.

But I still think the Argos have a better pedigree college QB that they will sign after the final NFL cuts. I think some guys will be more interested in coming up here after seeing what Rourke and now The Chad have done. The only problem is the kid will not be ready to replace Kelly if he goes down again. But surely they've got to be thinking about the future at QB, and they gotta know they can do better than Dukes or Scott.

[paulwoods13]

It's way too early to give up on either Dukes or Scott. One has played half a game in the CFL, the other has not yet stepped onto the field. Either guy could become either a player or a bust.

[AngeloV]

Khalil Tate was indeed highly touted, and he didn't amount to much, did he?

I think either Dukes or Scott will end up going forward with the team, and Dukes at this point looks like he's got the inside track.

But I still think the Argos have a better pedigree college QB that they will sign after the final NFL cuts. I think some guys will be more interested in coming up here after seeing what Rourke and now The Chad have done. The only problem is the kid will not be ready to replace Kelly if he goes down again. But surely they've got to be thinking about the future at QB, and they gotta know they can do better than Dukes or Scott.

What is pedigree? Power 5 only? Where you play college ball means absolutely nothing. So many highly touted SEC QB's over the years turned out to be nothing in the pros.

[RB957]

Not a fun game in any respect, but I am not that bummed out about the loss. Even the very best of teams have games where they just don't have it. Coach Dinwiddie mentioned in post-game comments that he could sense the lack of team energy during warm ups. And even though these guys are professionals, they're human. So whether it was starting to believe their own hype, just being flat, or not taking their opponents seriously, they end up with a loss. It was bound to happen at some point, and I would rather they had a bad game happen now, while they still have a comfortable lead in the division, to later in the season when games might have more meaning. And if we can escape without the injuries to Kelly and Pickett being too serious, that is a positive.

One thing that is starting to concern me, as others have pointed out, is our receivers not making catches they should make. Kelly has shown he has no hesitation to throw into coverage in tight windows, so our receivers have to make those plays, even if it means taking a hit. They were outstanding in that regard in the win against the Als, but have started to tail off.

As for the play of our backup QB's.... it is to be expected that they are going to make mistakes. I think coaching staff needs to adjust the schemes to improve the probability of success. For example, to deal with BC's pass rush, Winnipeg employed maximum protection on the O-line to give Collaros a split second more time to make his throws. Is this something we could implement should Dukes need to be put into the game again?

I couldn't agree more about the importance of developing our own QB's. When you look around the league and see that Collaros, Harris, Fajardo and even Prukop were all discovered and got their starts with the Argos, yet we never got to truly benefit from their development, it would be nice to change that scenario.

[Rich]

What is pedigree? Power 5 only? Where you play college ball means absolutely nothing. So many highly touted SEC QB's over the years turned out to be nothing in the pros.

Scott played in Div III, Dukes wasn’t even in the NCAA but in the NAIA, which is like below USports level. Where you play college ball doesn’t mean absolutely nothing, it speaks to the quality of defences the guy faced.

Any Div I QB has played against top level defences. I’d be happy to get a QB from the MAC, like Taylor Powell and Dustin Crum.

[ArgoRavi]

I guess it's a good thing that I quit most Argo Facebook groups then?

Yes. I see that crap and it raises my blood pressure.

[ArgofanIan]

Doesn't seem like there is a lot of tickets available for the CNE rematch. I try to bring a few friends to the CNE game. Will call my rep but would be nice if they could release more tickets if they are blocked off.

Great game last night ... the Red Blacks are always interesting ... Go ARRGOS !

[OV Argo]

Scott played in Div III, Dukes wasn’t even in the NCAA but in the NAIA, which is like below USports level. Where you play college ball doesn’t mean absolutely nothing, it speaks to the quality of defences the guy faced.

Any Div I QB has played against top level defences. I’d be happy to get a QB from the MAC, like Taylor Powell and Dustin Crum.

Both Div III and NAIA ball would be considered by some football people, well below top U Sports level teams, including defences faced, but that doesn't stop CFL "scouts" from writing off the Canadian trained guys (who have an obvious, huge leg up to begin with in experience and understanding of the Canadian game) in favor of recruiting any QB with an American passport instead. Or is there something special about the QB position over all others that demands Div. I US ball training ? Should CFL scouts assume all Div I trained receivers are better than top U Sports receiver talent like Kurleigh Gittens or Schaffer-Baker (clearly, the latter 2 are examples of way, way better receivers than all kinds of Div I guys now or who have played in the CFL).

A good Div I resume is nice to see for CFL recruits at any position but assuming it is the be all/end all over actual talent evaluation is just dumb football thinking IMO. Trevor Harris is out of Div II US ball and has done a few things in the CFL - way more than all sorts of big Div I program QBs who have bombed in CFL. opportunity. CFL "scouts" should be looking far & wide for all talent that could help their team. This year's Argos' recruitment of just Div III or NAIA resume guys at QB for TC is curious/interesting, but I wouldn't write-off either of these young QBs; but by all means, try and recruit some more QB talent going forward and not assume either that the 2 young, unproven guys on the roster are the future or good enough.

[ArgofanIan]

For the rematch CNE game not much available on ticket master. I called the ARGO ticket line and they had tickets available in the section I wanted. if your looking for any tickets for the CNE game might have to call ARGO's directly...

[argolio]

Scott played in Div III, Dukes wasn’t even in the NCAA but in the NAIA, which is like below USports level. Where you play college ball doesn’t mean absolutely nothing, it speaks to the quality of defences the guy faced.

Any Div I QB has played against top level defences. I’d be happy to get a QB from the MAC, like Taylor Powell and Dustin Crum.NAIA football is considered to be equivalent to NCAA D2. Canada West schools UBC and Victoria are members of the NAIA in order to compete in certain sports.

Your argument goes both ways. QBs from lower levels also play with lower quality offences. Scouting and working out the player determine if a guy has pro potential, not where he plays.

[Argo57]

NAIA football is considered to be equivalent to NCAA D2. Canada West schools UBC and Victoria are members of the NAIA in order to compete in certain sports.

Your argument goes both ways. QBs from lower levels also play with lower quality offences. Scouting and working out the player determine if a guy has pro potential, not where he plays.

This makes perfect sense.

[Rich]

NAIA football is considered to be equivalent to NCAA D2. Canada West schools UBC and Victoria are members of the NAIA in order to compete in certain sports.

Your argument goes both ways. QBs from lower levels also play with lower quality offences. Scouting and working out the player determine if a guy has pro potential, not where he plays.

Maybe Cam Dukes’ friends and family consider NAIA to be the equivalent of DII, but football people don’t.

Scouting and working out determined that he was good enough for NAIA but not good enough for the NCAA.

[AngeloV]

Maybe Cam Dukes’ friends and family consider NAIA to be the equivalent of DII, but football people don’t.

Scouting and working out determined that he was good enough for NAIA but not good enough for the NCAA.

Well, he's still taking more snaps than Khalil Tate. So much for NCAA scouting.

[Rich]

Well, he's still taking more snaps than Khalil Tate. So much for NCAA scouting.

As in any field, a good resume is no guarantee of success, but it reveals a lot about the skills of the applicant.

[OV Argo]

Maybe Cam Dukes’ friends and family consider NAIA to be the equivalent of DII, but football people don’t.

Scouting and working out determined that he was good enough for NAIA but not good enough for the NCAA.


Depends on who gets to "work out" where and for who. I guess Andy Fantuz, Andrew Harris or Henoc Muamba, for example, weren't "good enough" for the NCAA geniuses.

[argolio]

Maybe Cam Dukes’ friends and family consider NAIA to be the equivalent of DII, but football people don’t.

Scouting and working out determined that he was good enough for NAIA but not good enough for the NCAA.You're right. NAIA guys Darrell Green and Walter Payton were total stiffs.

[AngeloV]

You're right. NAIA guys Darrell Green and Walter Payton were total stiffs.

Never heard of them.

[Rich]

You're right. NAIA guys Darrell Green and Walter Payton were total stiffs.
Citing two guys out of tens of thousands over the years is not a particularly persuasive argument.

[AngeloV]

Citing two guys out of tens of thousands over the years is not a particularly persuasive argument.

It is when they are 2 of the best ever.

[OV Argo]

Citing two guys out of tens of thousands over the years is not a particularly persuasive argument.


If you think those are the only 2 ball players out of lower levels of US college ball (let alone Canadian college ball) who are far, far better football players than plenty of big NCAA resume guys, you are sadly mistaken.

[Rich]

It is when they are 2 of the best ever.

And that was 40 years ago and there have been maybe 10 NAIA guys in he NFL ever since, none of them nteworthy, although Christian Okoye was a pretty good back. There will always be diamonds in the rough.

I looked it up. NAIA schools spend 70% less on athletics than NCAA Div 3 schools. Think about that.

Now think about how NAIA teams compare to NCAA Div 1 teams, all 126 of them, when it comes to coaching, training staff and facilities, nutrition, etc. etc. etc., and you’re gonna tell me a Div 1 guy doesn’t have a better chance of being a successful pro than the NAIA guy?

[argolio]

And that was 40 years ago and there have been maybe 10 NAIA guys in he NFL ever since, none of them nteworthy, although Christian Okoye was a pretty good back. There will always be diamonds in the rough.

I looked it up. NAIA schools spend 70% less on athletics than NCAA Div 3 schools. Think about that.

Now think about how NAIA teams compare to NCAA Div 1 teams, all 126 of them, when it comes to coaching, training staff and facilities, nutrition, etc. etc. etc., and you’re gonna tell me a Div 1 guy doesn’t have a better chance of being a successful pro than the NAIA guy?Also Jackie Slater, Dave Krieg, Robert Brazile, and a guy named Harlon Hill who ironically has a Heisman-type trophy named after him for the best player in NCAA D2.

No one is using D1 as a comparison, and modern comparisons are further skewed by the fact that many schools have moved from NAIA to NCAA. Jackson State, Walter Payton's school, is now NCAA D1-AA/FCS.

[Rich]

No one is using D1 as a comparison,.

Nice try buddy this nonsense started when I said the Argos needed to get a D1 QB like Crum or Powell and you said where a guy came from had no determination on his pro potential.

[OV Argo]

Nice try buddy this nonsense started when I said the Argos needed to get a D1 QB like Crum or Powell and you said where a guy came from had no determination on his pro potential.

OK, but to be clear: are you saying it just has to be a Div I QB or else don't bother? And CFL teams should turn their noses up at a chance to sign and have for TC competition, QBs like Trevor Harris or Tre Ford ?

[argolio]

Nice try buddy this nonsense started when I said the Argos needed to get a D1 QB like Crum or Powell and you said where a guy came from had no determination on his pro potential.It's ridiculous to sign only D1 QBs. NFL teams don't limit themselves to that. Why would CFL teams?

[AngeloV]

Nice try buddy this nonsense started when I said the Argos needed to get a D1 QB like Crum or Powell and you said where a guy came from had no determination on his pro potential.

Rich, we get that you fancy yourself as an NCAA expert. You've told us how often you watch NCAA enough times. But players do slip through the cracks. Some play at low level high school leagues that don't even get recruited by the bigger schools.
By you warped way of looking at things, Josh Allen wasn't power 5 worthy.

[Rich]

It's ridiculous to sign only D1 QBs. NFL teams don't limit themselves to that. Why would CFL teams?

But that’s not what I said. All I said -- to bring this back to the Argos — was that we need to sign a high-quality QB prospect soon, to learn the game under Kelly and to prepare to “compete” with Dukes/Scott for the possible starting job in 2024.

Do you disagree? Does anyone?

[OV Argo]

But that’s not what I said. All I said -- to bring this back to the Argos — was that we need to sign a high-quality QB prospect soon, to learn the game under Kelly and to prepare to “compete” with Dukes/Scott for the possible starting job in 2024.

Do you disagree? Does anyone?

I don't - agree wholeheartedly if that's the way you put it.

What's your thoughts on why the Argos would not have signed O'Connor as possible QB TC competition heading into TC this year, or even moving forward now ?

[ArgoRavi]

But that’s not what I said. All I said -- to bring this back to the Argos — was that we need to sign a high-quality QB prospect soon, to learn the game under Kelly and to prepare to “compete” with Dukes/Scott for the possible starting job in 2024.

Do you disagree? Does anyone?

I am sure that the Argos brass is constantly looking for QBs whom they can bring in and compete for a job.

[AngeloV]

I am sure that the Argos brass is constantly looking for QBs whom they can bring in and compete for a job.

Of course they are. The neg has at least 10 QB’s. Off topic, but I believe the neg list has to go. American players should all be free agents if not under contract.

[argolio]

But that’s not what I said. All I said -- to bring this back to the Argos — was that we need to sign a high-quality QB prospect soon, to learn the game under Kelly and to prepare to “compete” with Dukes/Scott for the possible starting job in 2024.

Do you disagree? Does anyone?And the definition of a "high quality QB prospect" is what exactly? No team signs players that they believe have little to no chance of making the team.

[paulwoods13]

And the definition of a "high quality QB prospect" is what exactly? No team signs players that they believe have little to no chance of making the team.

Both Dukes and Scott might be high-quality prospects -- we simply don't know at this point.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Both Dukes and Scott might be high-quality prospects -- we simply don't know at this point.

I agree. We have not seen enough of either Dukes or Scott to judge one way or the other.

Playing half a game after a starter goes down is not a real test. You're not developing anyone if that's all you need before deciding to cut or replace a QB for sake of it.

If MBT went down this time last year, no one on here would have expected Kelly to just walk in and start playing dominant football.

The Argos are in a very similar situation than they were this time last year. Only difference is the team is considerably better.

[OV Argo]

I agree; but also sort of agree with Rich's point about the limited resumes of the 2 new QBs the Argos have on the roster. Maybe those 2 guys go on to be the next Doug Flutie, but we'll see if they get significant playing time down the road.

Gotta keep looking - far & wide - for talent at all positions. Every year.

[Rich]

And the definition of a "high quality QB prospect" is what exactly? No team signs players that they believe have little to no chance of making the team.

Have you ever heard of training camp fodder? That’s what either Dukes or Scott would have been if we had also signed a better-groomed, more highly ranked QB prospect.

[Rich]

I don't - agree wholeheartedly if that's the way you put it.

What's your thoughts on why the Argos would not have signed O'Connor as possible QB TC competition heading into TC this year, or even moving forward now ?

I’d like to know what happened to the guy. I think he had all the talent and skill to be a CFL starter. He looked very promising here and I really thought we lost something big when he left.

I think Dickinson screwed him, and it wouldn’t have shocked me if he ended up playing as well as Meier has if he was given the chance. He didn’t look as good in BC, maybe his confidence was shot, but still, at this point I would feel more comfortable if he we had him as our #2.

[argolio]

Have you ever heard of training camp fodder? That’s what either Dukes or Scott would have been if we had also signed a better-groomed, more highly ranked QB prospect.Wow, that's really disrespecting guys who made it through training camp.

Alabama and SEC champion Blake Sims lasted a whole 10 days with the Argos, and then was cut by the Riders after a few weeks. Was he camp fodder?

[Scooter McCray]

Johnny Manziel and Tim Tebow were among some the best US college QBs of all time and they could not play professional football well. Other guys get overlooked and become the GOAT (Tom Brady). Then there are all the different biases and prejudices - too small, too big, color of skin, nationality, where they played, etc... - that get projected onto players in the U.S. and in Canada.
A wide net is needed, and there is Canadian talent that needs to be developed. Chris Flynn should of been given an opportunity, and with that opportunity probably would have been a good pro but we will never know. He was the best Canadian college QB ever, and was never even given a shot.