Game Thread: Toronto Argonauts @ Saskatchewan Roughriders

[Will]

Nothing would make me happier than putting a dent in Saskatchewan's playoff hopes.

[Skilz]

For the Argos this is the closest thing that will resemble the intensity of the East Final.

Fighting for a playoff spot as well as management fighting for their coaching and GM jobs.

It would be good to give Kelly a half and then re-assess at halftime. Encouraging signs from last week on the interior offensive line. I think Giffen is really coming into his own as a road grader.

Would love to see Coxie get more involved in the offense as well as the Canadian Air Force. (Nield, Ungerer, Brissett and Sindani)

[Waffle]

The Argos are averaging about 17 pass completions per game. Last week, Daniels had 6 catches, so about one-third of the catches.
If one guy is getting that many catches/targets, it doesn’t leave a lot to divide up amongst the other players, including the running backs.
It has seemed to me at times that Kelly has been throwing to Daniels, even into double coverage, when he had other receivers open. Hopefully he can distribute the ball around, like he was trying to do for Nield last week.

[Joe Barnes]

The Argos are averaging about 17 pass completions per game. Last week, Daniels had 6 catches, so about one-third of the catches.
If one guy is getting that many catches/targets, it doesn’t leave a lot to divide up amongst the other players, including the running backs.
It has seemed to me at times that Kelly has been throwing to Daniels, even into double coverage, when he had other receivers open. Hopefully he can distribute the ball around, like he was trying to do for Nield last week.

Kelly (& Dinwiddie) have been spreading it around pretty evenly most of the season, though. Haven't they?

[Will]

The Argos are averaging about 17 pass completions per game. Last week, Daniels had 6 catches, so about one-third of the catches.
If one guy is getting that many catches/targets, it doesn’t leave a lot to divide up amongst the other players, including the running backs.
It has seemed to me at times that Kelly has been throwing to Daniels, even into double coverage, when he had other receivers open. Hopefully he can distribute the ball around, like he was trying to do for Nield last week.

- Gittens and Phillips are out
- Coxie hasn't been consistent the last few weeks
- Kelly is a gunslinger

[jerrym]

Here are the injury reports:

https://www.cfl.ca/2023/10/17/argos-riders-injury-reports-ouellette-full-lauther-sits-out-on-tues/

[paulwoods13]

As expected, Flo gets a bye. Pretty well all key players who can be rested have now been given a rest.

[ArgoRavi]

As expected, Flo gets a bye. Pretty well all key players who can be rested have now been given a rest.

Yep, Boris Bede too.

[argolio]

The Argos are averaging about 17 pass completions per game. Last week, Daniels had 6 catches, so about one-third of the catches.
If one guy is getting that many catches/targets, it doesn’t leave a lot to divide up amongst the other players, including the running backs.
It has seemed to me at times that Kelly has been throwing to Daniels, even into double coverage, when he had other receivers open. Hopefully he can distribute the ball around, like he was trying to do for Nield last week.As long as the completions lead to TDs and wins, I don't really care how they're distributed.

[jerrym]

Dolegala lucky on his opening TD drive to have his pass tipped to the receiver and then have the receiver's knee still on the ground before fumbling the ball, so the Riders' retain possession.

[jerrym]

Kelly seemed surprised on his fumble because the Riders got to him so quickly after the Argo OL had previously provided so much time to throw on previous plays.

[jerrym]

Stagers show his metal by recovering after allowing a long pass with an interception on the next play.

[jerrym]

Kelly looked good marching the ball down the field until he threw the INT to Marshall for his second turnover. Kelly looks a little off today so far.

[jerrym]

Good to see OJ get his 1,000 yards. Nobody works harder for it.

[jerrym]

Lozada, all-time leader scorer in the Mexican league, gets his first Argo FG. But he missed two in the first half. I hope it's just nerves because if Beds goes down we would need a replacement.

[jerrym]

And the Kelly offence explodes with a long bomb TD to Coxie once again.

[Argos1983]

Ok - can we be done now with risking our QB in meaningless games - now we have 21 days to get him healthy for the game that matters. It’s enough ridiculousness…..

[ArgoGabe22]

Ok - can we be done now with risking our QB in meaningless games - now we have 21 days to get him healthy for the game that matters. It’s enough ridiculousness…..

I get that it’s scary putting Kelly out there but holy smokes, Glen Suitor just needs to calm down.

[Will]

Lanier is dirty

[kellynjk]

I get that it’s scary putting Kelly out there but holy smokes, Glen Suitor just needs to calm down.

Yeah I know Glen Suitor starts on this before the game even begins. Okay we get it - you don't think they should be playing Kelly - ha! Also I will confess that seeing Kelly limp off the field after that tackle didn't feel good. But he seems to be okay.

[ArgoGabe22]

Kelly is benched and Suitor keeps going on and on….

[jerrym]

I get they don't want to have Kelly get rusty with so much time before the final playoff game, but I hope Dinwiddie gets over playing Kellymore than one half (and preferably less) at most in search of a meaningless win.

[jerrym]

McManus comes through yet again with a timely INT setting up the Argos in great position to score.

[jerrym]

Great to see Kelly break 4,000 yards passing and Daniels get 1,000 yards also.

[Will]

Suitor in shambles.

[Mocha]

Bit of a coming-out party for Adeboboye today. Looks as though he'll be able to step into the backup RB spot just fine next year.

[jerrym]

Dukes impressive on late drive to take the lead with less than a minute to go, thanks to a good catch by Sindani, yet another part of the Canadian air force.

[Will]

Cam Dukes with a nice job to lead the Argos back for the 29-26 win. The Riders are out!

[ArgoGabe22]

I actually like the call to go for it. Pin them deep if it’s a turnover. Have them punt. Get the ball back with lots of time

[jerrym]

Dolegala showed a lot of potential with 429 passing yards but also showed his inexperience at several points in the game, especially in his last two drives, trying for a long ball that was intercepted when he only needed to gain 20 yards with lots of time left to put them in position for a winning FG and in the final drive when he kept throwing five yard passes with just 29 seconds left, meaning he had no chance to get in position for a FG attempt.

[Stevoman]

Great experience for Dukes and Adeboboye has confirmed that the replacement for Andrew Harris is on the roster!

[kellynjk]

What was that last play for Saskatchewan I was watching it going WTF - a forward pass, then pass it back (to lose yards) than a lateral pass???!! Ha, ha, I guess you get points for creativity. I wonder what that play looked like in practice? Glad for the Argos to get the win. Know. it was a nothing game, but still wanted the Argos to win!!!

[ArgoGabe22]

What was that last play for Saskatchewan I was watching it going WTF - a forward pass, then pass it back (to lose yards) than a lateral pass???!! Ha, ha, I guess you get points for creativity. I wonder what that play looked like in practice? Glad for the Argos to get the win. Know. it was a nothing game, but still wanted the Argos to win!!!

Just looked like a desperate play to keep the ball in play. The band is on the field!

["Issues"Mcgee]

Dukes did exactly what you ask of a backup QB. After tonight I would say he is starter material.

Kudos to the Rider fan with the working coffee maker on his head. That was incredible.

[Blue90]

Argos not sharp today, especially Kelly and the defense.

Crazy decision to gamble on third down, instead kicking a field goal and being down by a single point.

Dukes looked great in final minutes to get the go ahead touchdown.

Protecting Kelly should be the most important goal in these last few games. Why risk getting him injured and possibly missing the Eastern playoffs?

[Shatto]

A few thoughts about today's game:
.Too often teams have been able to put up good passing yards against the Argos. Mostly it has been short and intermediate passes but today the Riders were able to complete several long passes.

. Adeboboye proved he can be a very good backup at RB.

. Dukes, wasn't expected to make this team but he has impressed more and more as he plays. The team now has an effective backup for Kelly.

.Both OL and DL played strong games. When Allen returns the OL will be even better.

. The Argos were penalized for hits on the Rider QB but at least one of those calls was very questionable. But--no penalty when Kelly's lower leg was twisted?

. There has been a lot of talk about rookie Stiggers excellent play but another rookie DB (Pierce) has also been playing very well. He made an outstanding break on the ball to intercept late in the game.

[ArgoRavi]

A few thoughts about today's game:
.Too often teams have been able to put up good passing yards against the Argos. Mostly it has been short and intermediate passes but today the Riders were able to complete several long passes.

. Adeboboye proved he can be a very good backup at RB.

. Dukes, wasn't expected to make this team but he has impressed more and more as he plays. The team now has an effective backup for Kelly.

.Both OL and DL played strong games. When Allen returns the OL will be even better.

. The Argos were penalized for hits on the Rider QB but at least one of those calls was very questionable. But--no penalty when Kelly's lower leg was twisted?

. There has been a lot of talk about rookie Stiggers excellent play but another rookie DB (Pierce) has also been playing very well. He made an outstanding break on the ball to intercept late in the game.

I don't think that the Argos have been doing a lot of exotic stuff on defence so I am not worried about your first point and I agree with all of your other points.

[ArgoRavi]

I actually like the call to go for it. Pin them deep if it’s a turnover. Have them punt. Get the ball back with lots of time

I suspect that Dinwiddie would make a different call in the playoffs but I definitely had no problem with that call in this game. I was surprised about how upset Suitor was by that decision.

[Rich]

I suspect that Dinwiddie would make a different call in the playoffs but I definitely had no problem with that call in this game. I was surprised about how upset Suitor was by that decision.

I’m surprised that neither Suitor nor Ben Grant considered the fact that our kicker was playing in his first pro game and had already missed a couple of shorties.

RD didn’t want to rely on him for this kick AND a subsequent game winner — they needed to go TD under these circumstances. 100% the right call IMO.

[Rich]

Adeboboye proved he can be a very good backup at RB.


I think some day in the not-too-distant future he may prove to be an even better back than Ouellette.

[Rich]

So how many come-from-behind wins does that make this season? Is it 4 or 5? This team simply refuses to lose. You can almost feel the winning mojo radiating off these guys, I’ve never seen anything like it.

People will call next week’s game meaningless, but tying the CFL record for most wins ever would mean a lot not just to fans like me, but to everyone in that dressing room I am sure. There’s already chatter about this team being the best ever. What player wouldn’t want to be part of that legacy?

Saying that winning the Cup is the only thing that matters in a football season is like saying an orgasm is the only thing that matters when you have sex. It’s not completely true. ;-)

[Blue90]

So how many come-from-behind wins does that make this season? Is it 4 or 5? This team simply refuses to lose. You can almost feel the winning mojo radiating off these guys, I’ve never seen anything like it.

People will call next week’s game meaningless, but tying the CFL record for most wins ever would mean a lot not just to fans like me, but to everyone in that dressing room I am sure. There’s already chatter about this team being the best ever. What player wouldn’t want to be part of that legacy?

Saying that winning the Cup is the only thing that matters in a football season is like saying an orgasm is the only thing that matters when you have sex. It’s not completely true. ;-)

Disagree. Record for wins is meaningless if they don't win the Cup.

Do you really think that having 16 wins makes them better than the Edmonton team that won 5 straight Cups? Seriously?

[Rich]

Disagree. Record for wins is meaningless if they don't win the Cup.

Do you really think that having 16 wins makes them better than the Edmonton team that won 5 straight Cups? Seriously?

Are you seriously comparing one season to five seasons? 16 wins would mean the 2023 Argos compare favourably to the 16-2 1989 EE, and that team didn’t win the Cup. Talk to me in 4 (or three) years to see if the Argos compare to the 5-Cup team. Given Chad’s long-term contract wouldn’t you agree this team could possibly string a few Cups together too?

[Will]

Considering this game meant nothing to the Argos, Suitor spent too much time analyzing the decision to go for it on 3rd and 4. Firstly, the way I saw that decision was that it would not have been made during a meaningful game. Secondly, a field goal there would have allowed Saskatchewan to scrimmage from their own 40, which is much better field position than the 14. Dinwiddie was hoping his defense would get a 2 and out and get the ball back giving Dukes a shorter field. Now that appeared to have blown up in his face as the Riders gained a few first downs and ended up punting from their own 40. Dukes was up to the task of leading the Argos downfield anyways for the game winning TD.

[Argo57]

Are you seriously comparing one season to five seasons? 16 wins would mean the 2023 Argos compare favourably to the 16-2 1989 (tel:16-2 1989) EE, and that team didn’t win the Cup. Talk to me in 4 (or three) years to see if the Argos compare to the 5-Cup team. Given Chad’s long-term contract wouldn’t you agree this team could possibly string a few Cups together too?

I think that is Blue90’s point, very premature to anoint the Argos as the “greatest team ever” before this seasons playoffs even start.
Lets see how things play out in November before talking an Argo dynasty.
Regular season records are nice but championships are the ultimate goal.
I consider those 1978-82 Edmonton teams as the most dominant team ever.

[RB957]

Considering this game meant nothing to the Argos, Suitor spent too much time analyzing the decision to go for it on 3rd and 4. Firstly, the way I saw that decision was that it would not have been made during a meaningful game. Secondly, a field goal there would have allowed Saskatchewan to scrimmage from their own 40, which is much better field position than the 14. Dinwiddie was hoping his defense would get a 2 and out and get the ball back giving Dukes a shorter field. Now that appeared to have blown up in his face as the Riders gained a few first downs and ended up punting from their own 40. Dukes was up to the task of leading the Argos downfield anyways for the game winning TD.

While watching the game, I didn't understand why they didn't kick the field goal and did not agree with the decision to go for it. But your explanation makes sense. I am just glad it worked out in the end.

[Skilz]

If there's anything that scares me about the team moving forward is that the Roughriders provided a passing blueprint to other teams for a method of attacking the Argos defense. Bane and Emilius were feasting on the hitch screens and short dig routes, until the Argos moved to zone in the second half.


I feel that a return from one of Daniel or Amos would helped strengthen the defensive backfield, no sense counting on Priester or Carnell this late in the season. For what its worth Pierce seemed to have a good game, but I couldn't trust a raw rookie in that position for the East Final.

[bluto]

If there's anything that scares me about the team moving forward is that the Roughriders provided a passing blueprint to other teams for a method of attacking the Argos defense. Bane and Emilius were feasting on the hitch screens and short dig routes, until the Argos moved to zone in the second half.


I feel that a return from one of Daniel or Amos would helped strengthen the defensive backfield, no sense counting on Priester or Carnell this late in the season. For what its worth Pierce seemed to have a good game, but I couldn't trust a raw rookie in that position for the East Final.

I'd be really worried too if I thought that the basic cover 2 which we saw Dolegala have success against on Saturday was what we were going with when the result matters.
We know that it isn't. Coach Mace is nobodies fool.

[Scooter McCray]

Just looked like a desperate play to keep the ball in play. The band is on the field!Damon Allen was the QB for Cal in that game.

[Scooter McCray]

I'd be really worried too if I thought that the basic cover 2 which we saw Dolegala have success against on Saturday was what we were going with when the result matters.
We know that it isn't. Coach Mace is nobodies fool.Agree with this 100%. This Argo team is going to be scary in the playoffs. Mace will have schemes ready that no team have seen yet this season. They continue to win playing vanilla defence. Can't wait for the East Final. If TFC can get 27,000 to their season finale after their worst record in team history-someone will need to explain to me how the Argos East Final cannot draw the same attendance. We share the same President. Perhaps he can do for the Argos for that game what he was able to do for TFC. Here's hoping.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Agree with this 100%. This Argo team is going to be scary in the playoffs. Mace will have schemes ready that no team have seen yet this season. They continue to win playing vanilla defence. Can't wait for the East Final. If TFC can get 27,000 to their season finale after their worst record in team history-someone will need to explain to me how the Argos East Final cannot draw the same attendance. We share the same President. Perhaps he can do for the Argos for that game what he was able to do for TFC. Here's hoping.

27,000 would be fantastic but I am not sure the Argos can get there yet. Last year's East Final drew 21,331, according to Wikipedia. Anything above that is a win. 23,000 would be nice. 25,000 would be a statement MLSE couldn't possibly ignore.

Last week the on the X's and Argos podcast, they were saying 17,000 tickets have already sold. With that in mind, it is more than possible to beat last year's total, but anything beyond that I am not so sure.

[Scooter McCray]

27,000 would be fantastic but I am not sure the Argos can get there yet. Last year's East Final drew 21,331, according to Wikipedia. Anything above that is a win. 23,000 would be nice. 25,000 would be a statement MLSE couldn't possibly ignore.

Last week the on the X's and Argos podcast, they were saying 17,000 tickets have already sold. With that in mind, it is more than possible to beat last year's total, but anything beyond that I am not so sure.You are probably right. And I know we are supposed to be okay with that. I just don't want ownership to be "okay" with it. They shouldn't be. Nobody can tell me that with a little bit of effort, and elbow grease, and want to attitude - that MLSE couldn't sell 10,000 more seats with 3 weeks to go. They could. Because I guarantee you the team they own on that day will be fully prepared, and the players will be dialed in and are doing everything in these next 3 weeks to give all of us in attendance a game we won't forget. They will leave nothing behind. They will not be satisfied with anything but leaving it all out on the field. I would like to see their owners approach those 10,000 remaining tickets the same way.

[paulwoods13]

Agree with this 100%. This Argo team is going to be scary in the playoffs. Mace will have schemes ready that no team have seen yet this season. They continue to win playing vanilla defence. Can't wait for the East Final. If TFC can get 27,000 to their season finale after their worst record in team history-someone will need to explain to me how the Argos East Final cannot draw the same attendance. We share the same President. Perhaps he can do for the Argos for that game what he was able to do for TFC. Here's hoping.

To be fair, TFC had a massive head start. MLSE was building up a loyal, demographically attractive fan base for TFC two or three Argo ownership groups ago. They did it in a smart, sustainable way and the proof is that they continue to draw well even after some really terrible seasons. Hopefully Argos can replicate that but it is going to take time.

[OV Argo]

A few thoughts about today's game:
.Too often teams have been able to put up good passing yards against the Argos. Mostly it has been short and intermediate passes but today the Riders were able to complete several long passes.

. Adeboboye proved he can be a very good backup at RB.

. Dukes, wasn't expected to make this team but he has impressed more and more as he plays. The team now has an effective backup for Kelly.

.Both OL and DL played strong games. When Allen returns the OL will be even better.

. The Argos were penalized for hits on the Rider QB but at least one of those calls was very questionable. But--no penalty when Kelly's lower leg was twisted?

. There has been a lot of talk about rookie Stiggers excellent play but another rookie DB (Pierce) has also been playing very well. He made an outstanding break on the ball to intercept late in the game.

Adebobye looked outstanding IMO - power, and some moves & speed.

Dukes has surprised and is impressive for a raw rookie QB IMO

Pierce has come on and is showing well and Stiggers is an obvious talent; still a concern though with all the inexperience in the secondary for a big play-off game (if only Daniel & Amos were healthy - that secondary would be league best likely)

Nice to see the young talent doing well.

["Issues"Mcgee]

You are probably right. And I know we are supposed to be okay with that. I just don't want ownership to be "okay" with it. They shouldn't be. Nobody can tell me that with a little bit of effort, and elbow grease, and want to attitude - that MLSE couldn't sell 10,000 more seats with 3 weeks to go. They could. Because I guarantee you the team they own on that day will be fully prepared, and the players will be dialed in and are doing everything in these next 3 weeks to give all of us in attendance a game we won't forget. They will leave nothing behind. They will not be satisfied with anything but leaving it all out on the field. I would like to see their owners approach those 10,000 remaining tickets the same way.

I hope you are right in the end. Good news today. X's and Argos Twitter posted the upper East deck is expected to open soon.

[Scooter McCray]

To be fair, TFC had a massive head start. MLSE was building up a loyal, demographically attractive fan base for TFC two or three Argo ownership groups ago. They did it in a smart, sustainable way and the proof is that they continue to draw well even after some really terrible seasons. Hopefully Argos can replicate that but it is going to take time.I am with you. My hope for this team springs eternal for them to be a player in this city's sports minds again. One thing MLSE have done well each of the last 2 years is get Argo players out to Leaf and Raptor games to promote the Eastern Final. I expect they will do that again, with Raptors starting up this week. Hopefully they just promote the heck out of the game on their media outlets as well and get the city hyped for another Grey Cup run. In the immortal words of Carl Brazley - "Get hyped with me".

[Scooter McCray]

I hope you are right in the end. Good news today. X's and Argos Twitter posted the upper East deck is expected to open soon.And it looks like they are going to sell seats in that endzone bleacher. I don't know what they are selling those for, but they should be $10-$20. Just fill the place up. It is going to get loud in there filled to capacity.

[bluto]

And it looks like they are going to sell seats in that endzone bleacher. I don't know what they are selling those for, but they should be $10-$20. Just fill the place up. It is going to get loud in there filled to capacity.

$52.75

Which, in this city, amounts to the best entertainment deal of the year.

[primetime31]

To be fair, TFC had a massive head start. MLSE was building up a loyal, demographically attractive fan base for TFC two or three Argo ownership groups ago. They did it in a smart, sustainable way and the proof is that they continue to draw well even after some really terrible seasons. Hopefully Argos can replicate that but it is going to take time.

To be clear, MLSE and their point man at the time of inception Paul Beirne knew little about the game. He was an internal transfer from the Raptors at the time. He heavily relied on supporters groups for their input of how to build a supporter culture that approximated the European soccer culture.

It's amazing that the Argos get criticized for not being as good as the NFL by many in the GTA, while TFC is farther away in quality by some distance from the best league in the world, the English Premier League.

The Argos key to building a better fanbase IMO, is to build a fan culture and community. This is somewhat present with the team currently but needs to be more organized and exposed to the general public.

[primetime31]

Damon Allen was the QB for Cal in that game.

Damon Allen never played for Cal in the 1980's. He played for Cal State Fullerton, which abandoned their football program in 1992.

[ArgoGabe22]

Damon Allen never played for Cal in the 1980's. He played for Cal State Fullerton, which abandoned their football program in 1992.

CFL Legend Joe Kapp (RIP) was the coach of Cal though. Fun Fact!

[ArgoRavi]

To be clear, MLSE and their point man at the time of inception Paul Beirne knew little about the game. He was an internal transfer from the Raptors at the time. He heavily relied on supporters groups for their input of how to build a supporter culture that approximated the European soccer culture.

It's amazing that the Argos get criticized for not being as good as the NFL by many in the GTA, while TFC is farther away in quality by some distance from the best league in the world, the English Premier League.

The Argos key to building a better fanbase IMO, is to build a fan culture and community. This is somewhat present with the team currently but needs to be more organized and exposed to the general public.

If you point this out to a TFC fan, who looks down on the Argos/CFL, they will come back with, "Yeah, but we are in the best league in North America."

[paulwoods13]

To be clear, MLSE and their point man at the time of inception Paul Beirne knew little about the game. He was an internal transfer from the Raptors at the time. He heavily relied on supporters groups for their input of how to build a supporter culture that approximated the European soccer culture.


Whatever they did, TFC built up an intensely loyal fanbase almost from Day 1, and that base remains strong all these years later even after some comically bad seasons. It's pretty common for Argo fans to look down on TFC, but their success at the gate cannot be overstated.

[Will]

If you point this out to a TFC fan, who looks down on the Argos/CFL, they will come back with, "Yeah, but we are in the best league in North America."

Rightly or wrongly, a Torontonian can be in Orchard Park in ~3 hours, Cleveland in ~5 hours and Detroit in ~4 hours. Not so easy for a soccer fan to get to Liverpool, Manchester or Chelsea.

[primetime31]

CFL Legend Joe Kapp (RIP) was the coach of Cal though. Fun Fact!

So was Hamilton Tiger-Cat legend Jeff Tedford. Tedford is now at Fresno State.

[primetime31]

If you point this out to a TFC fan, who looks down on the Argos/CFL, they will come back with, "Yeah, but we are in the best league in North America."

And I would quickly respond with, "Your wrong, Liga MX is better than MLS in almost every metric."