Chad Kelly 2023 CFL MOP

[Argo57]

Congrats to Chad Kelly all in all a great season!!

https://3downnation.com/2023/11/16/toronto-argonauts-qb-chad-kelly-named-cfls-most-outstanding-player/

[Stevoman]

Of course we all want the Grey Cup more but I'm proud of how many Argo's were represented tonight! It's never easy to follow a championship season and they did so incredibly well!

[AngeloV]

Well deserved. This was a fantastic season, even if it had a disappointing ending. Looking forward to seeing him get even better next season.

[Argo57]

Well deserved. This was a fantastic season, even if it had a disappointing ending. Looking forward to seeing him get even better next season.

Most times adversity makes you stronger and more resilient, hopefully this drives Kelly to get even better.

[paulwoods13]

Most times adversity makes you stronger and more resilient, hopefully this drives Kelly to get even better.

Sadly, in retrospect, this team faced absolutely no adversity all season. It was going to hit eventually, and unfortunately they were not ready for it (defence excepted).

[Argo57]

Sadly, in retrospect, this team faced absolutely no adversity all season. It was going to hit eventually, and unfortunately they were not ready for it (defence excepted).

The Argos basically cruised along all season including the last 6 games, Montreal on the other hand came into the EF battle tested and it certainly showed.
Toronto (specifically Chad Kelly) got smacked in the mouth on the first possession and unraveled from there, hopefully a learning experience for him.

[ArgoRavi]

Sadly, in retrospect, this team faced absolutely no adversity all season. It was going to hit eventually, and unfortunately they were not ready for it (defence excepted).

Not that I buy into the narrative coming from some in the west that the Argos only beat up on weak eastern teams this year - the same eastern teams that had a collective winning record against the west - but I do welcome the return of the balanced schedule next year including two games each against Winnipeg and BC. I think that won't hurt in testing the Argos even more before playoff time.

[Antwon]

Not that I buy into the narrative coming from some in the west that the Argos only beat up on weak eastern teams this year - the same eastern teams that had a collective winning record against the west - but I do welcome the return of the balanced schedule next year including two games each against Winnipeg and BC. I think that won't hurt in testing the Argos even more before playoff time.

Who ever has that narrative in the west is just making excuses. I guess they forget that Wpg and BC feasted on Edm, Sask, and Cgy!!!
The Mtl vs Tor games were competitive. It's not the Argos fault that Ham and Ott were pathetic.
It may have helped Tor if they played Mtl later in the season.
And this Argo team went toe to toe with Wpg with our backup QB. I thought that loss was suppose to make a point with the team that they still had to work for the wins. But maybe it backfired and they thought they would have one with Kelly.
I too am happy to see the balanced schedule back.

[AngeloV]

I guess they forget that Wpg and BC feasted on Edm, Sask, and Cgy!!!


And both lost to Hamilton, who the Argos were 4-0 against. Hell, Winnipeg even lost to Ottawa, and BC should have without some late dumbass coaching decisions.

[kellynjk]

This is a well-deserved award for Chad Kelly and I thought his acceptance speech was nice, the way he credited his team-mates for making him a better player. Congrats!!

[TICATS SUCK !]

Let me preface my response with the following: I have nothing against Chad Kelly. He had a very successful season, especially as a first year starter in the CFL, which is quite rare.

Chad Kelly shouldn't have won the award for MOP. To me, this is one of the weakest selections ever. I feel that he wasn't even the best player at his position, whereas Brady Oliveira was. As Paul Woods and Argo Ravi noted, Kelly regressed over the last half/third of the season. I would describe his performance during this time as "pedestrian."

Historically speaking , Kelly's 23 TD passes is the lowest amongst all MOP winning QB'S (in a full season) since the advent of the 18 game schedule in 1986. His passing yardage total (4,123) is the 2nd lowest ever. Here are some of Kelly's ranks this past season:

Passing Yards: 4th
Completion %: 4th
Yards Per Attempt: 1st
TD Passes: 3rd
QB Rating: 2nd
300 Yard Games: 4th

I realize that stats aren't everything. That being said, these numbers don't scream MOP to me. Kelly's selection will make good fodder for those who feel that the CFL shows favourtism towards the Argos.

On an unrelated note, I feel that Montreal's improbable Grey Cup title is reminiscent of the Argos winning in 2017. Personally, it takes a little bit of the sting out the disastrous Eastern Final.

[Stevoman]

On an unrelated note, I feel that Montreal's improbable Grey Cup title is reminiscent of the Argos winning in 2017. Personally, it takes a little bit of the sting out the disastrous Eastern Final.

I feel the same way!

[AngeloV]

Let me preface my response with the following: I have nothing against Chad Kelly. He had a very successful season, especially as a first year starter in the CFL, which is quite rare.

Chad Kelly shouldn't have won the award for MOP. To me, this is one of the weakest selections ever. I feel that he wasn't even the best player at his position, whereas Brady Oliveira was. As Paul Woods and Argo Ravi noted, Kelly regressed over the last half/third of the season. I would describe his performance during this time as "pedestrian."

Historically speaking , Kelly's 23 TD passes is the lowest amongst all MOP winning QB'S (in a full season) since the advent of the 18 game schedule in 1986. His passing yardage total (4,123) is the 2nd lowest ever. Here are some of Kelly's ranks this past season:

Passing Yards: 4th
Completion %: 4th
Yards Per Attempt: 1st
TD Passes: 3rd
QB Rating: 2nd
300 Yard Games: 4th

I realize that stats aren't everything. That being said, these numbers don't scream MOP to me. Kelly's selection will make good fodder for those who feel that the CFL shows favourtism towards the Argos.

On an unrelated note, I feel that Montreal's improbable Grey Cup title is reminiscent of the Argos winning in 2017. Personally, it takes a little bit of the sting out the disastrous Eastern Final.

I disagree, but I guess it’s fashionable to jump off Kelly’s bandwagon. The only reason he regressed in the 2nd half is because they had nothing to play for and had big 2nd half leads. TD passes are such an overrated stat, especially when your passing gets you close to the goal line which lead to a league high 30 rushing TD’s and no other team was close to that. I don’t recall a lot of those rushing TD’s being long runs. Kelly was absolutely the right choice for the award.

[RB957]

I disagree, but I guess it’s fashionable to jump off Kelly’s bandwagon. The only reason he regressed in the 2nd half is because they had nothing to play for and had big 2nd half leads. TD passes are such an overrated stat, especially when your passing gets you close to the goal line which lead to a league high 30 rushing TD’s and no other team was close to that. I don’t recall a lot of those rushing TD’s being long runs. Kelly was absolutely the right choice for the award.


Let me preface my response with the following: I have nothing against Chad Kelly. He had a very successful season, especially as a first year starter in the CFL, which is quite rare.

Chad Kelly shouldn't have won the award for MOP. To me, this is one of the weakest selections ever. I feel that he wasn't even the best player at his position, whereas Brady Oliveira was. As Paul Woods and Argo Ravi noted, Kelly regressed over the last half/third of the season. I would describe his performance during this time as "pedestrian."

Historically speaking , Kelly's 23 TD passes is the lowest amongst all MOP winning QB'S (in a full season) since the advent of the 18 game schedule in 1986. His passing yardage total (4,123) is the 2nd lowest ever. Here are some of Kelly's ranks this past season:

Passing Yards: 4th
Completion %: 4th
Yards Per Attempt: 1st
TD Passes: 3rd
QB Rating: 2nd
300 Yard Games: 4th

I realize that stats aren't everything. That being said, these numbers don't scream MOP to me. Kelly's selection will make good fodder for those who feel that the CFL shows favourtism towards the Argos.

On an unrelated note, I feel that Montreal's improbable Grey Cup title is reminiscent of the Argos winning in 2017. Personally, it takes a little bit of the sting out the disastrous Eastern Final.


Honestly, I can see both sides and could argue either of your positions. Perhaps from a strictly statistical perspective, TICAT's argument has merit. But for me, and I think this is where I lean toward Angelo's comment, the crux is how you define "outstanding". Does it mean you have to be the top in all or most statistical categories? I don't think so, and I don't think that the evaluators saw it that way. If you look at it from the perspective of most "valuable", then Kelly wins hands down. And I agree that some of the stats can be misleading.

To the comment that the Alouettes remind you of the 2017 Argonauts, I would say they also remind me so much of the 2012 Argonauts. As I recall, that team was mediocre, but then had a big win on the road in Saskatchewan, after which they caught fire. They were a .500 team, and had to win two games to make it to the Grey Cup. It just reinforces for me how important the mental aspect and team culture is. The Als had that MOJO going for them and they caught fire at the right time.

[bluto]

If you look at it from the perspective of most "valuable", then Kelly wins hands down. And I agree that some of the stats can be misleading.

That's how I regard it. He won the MOP award due to being the MVP.

[paulwoods13]

Of the top three QBs in the league, only Kelly never had a bad (regular-season) game, only Kelly sat out two full games because he wasn't needed, and only Kelly regularly played ultra-conservatively in second halves due to sizeable leads. His statistics are not as impressive as Collaros's and Adams's because the Argos didn't need him to rack up impressive statistics. I have previously noted that he was somewhat less impressive in the second half of the season, but it's worth noting that only three of those nine games actually mattered. IMO he deserves to be all-star QB and he deserves to be MOP because he excelled at a position that is much more critical to a team's success is than RB. Not to take anything away from Oliveira, who had a superb year, but IMO the 39-22 MOP vote in Kelly's favour is about right.

As for the CFL showing favouritism to the Argos, tell that to Argo fans who have seen their team screwed by the schedule-maker year after year (tho not in 2023, to be fair). And the awards are not determined by the league but by a panel of voters from all nine cities, with Toronto reps likely outnumbered something in the range of eight to one.

[RB957]

As for the CFL showing favouritism to the Argos, tell that to Argo fans who have seen their team screwed by the schedule-maker year after year (tho not in 2023, to be fair). And the awards are not determined by the league but by a panel of voters from all nine cities, with Toronto reps likely outnumbered something in the range of eight to one.

I would add to this... what possible motivation would there be for showing favouritism to the Argos with the awards. Let's face it, they are so far down the pecking order in terms of sports coverage and interest in this city, what difference would this make?

[ArgoRavi]

Of the top three QBs in the league, only Kelly never had a bad (regular-season) game, only Kelly sat out two full games because he wasn't needed, and only Kelly regularly played ultra-conservatively in second halves due to sizeable leads. His statistics are not as impressive as Collaros's and Adams's because the Argos didn't need him to rack up impressive statistics. I have previously noted that he was somewhat less impressive in the second half of the season, but it's worth noting that only three of those nine games actually mattered. IMO he deserves to be all-star QB and he deserves to be MOP because he excelled at a position that is much more critical to a team's success is than RB. Not to take anything away from Oliveira, who had a superb year, but IMO the 39-22 MOP vote in Kelly's favour is about right.

As for the CFL showing favouritism to the Argos, tell that to Argo fans who have seen their team screwed by the schedule-maker year after year (tho not in 2023, to be fair). And the awards are not determined by the league but by a panel of voters from all nine cities, with Toronto reps likely outnumbered something in the range of eight to one.

In the same vein, I find that, in recent years in the CFL, when a QB throws for 400+ yards, they usually lose because they have to throw the ball so much because they're well behind. Situationally, Kelly didn't need to put up huge numbers - he just needed to do what he had to for the Argos to consistently win games. He is certainly capable of throwing for 400 yards if he has to but he never had to.

I have seen the Argos screwed over time and again on the awards front. Terry Greer should have won the MOP award in 1983 but they went with Warren Moon instead who was the first passer to throw for more than 5000 yards but his team was only 8-8. It felt like that MOP award for Moon was more of a make-up award for previous years but has any receiver had a more dominant season than Greer did in 1983?

Also, Jon Volpe beat out Rocket Ismail for top rookie in 1991 and Chris Isaac somehow won top rookie in 1982 over Bob Bronk (not to mention Mervyn Fernandez as well). Isaac played some good football for Ottawa but they were 5-11 in 1982.

[OV Argo]

Reading (via Riderfans by way of 3 Down?) Kelly has some off-season NFL work-outs lined-up ?

Interesting ...

[ArgoRavi]

Reading (via Riderfans by way of 3 Down?) Kelly has some off-season NFL work-outs lined-up ?

Interesting ...

This doesn't surprise me, OV, but I would be shocked if anything comes of it. I put it at a 1% chance that he goes to the NFL this off-season.

[paulwoods13]

Reading (via Riderfans by way of 3 Down?) Kelly has some off-season NFL work-outs lined-up ?

Interesting ...

That's what he said. He also said, in the same interview, that he suffered a concussion during the Eastern Final. Either statement might or might not be true. I have a hard time seeing any NFL GM selling his fans on a QB who led his team to nine turnovers in a championship game, but we'll see, won't we?

[Antwon]

That's what he said. He also said, in the same interview, that he suffered a concussion during the Eastern Final. Either statement might or might not be true. I have a hard time seeing any NFL GM selling his fans on a QB who led his team to nine turnovers in a championship game, but we'll see, won't we?

This is where the Argos were smart on how they structured Kelly's contract. I believe he will receive a significant payment in the winter. If he were to accept an NFL contract he would forgo that payment from the Argos. I don't know the numbers, but I can't see an NFL team giving him 100,000+k to sign and report to camp. I think it would be a lot lower, especially after the EF and concussion claim.

[OV Argo]

That's what he said. He also said, in the same interview, that he suffered a concussion during the Eastern Final. Either statement might or might not be true. I have a hard time seeing any NFL GM selling his fans on a QB who led his team to nine turnovers in a championship game, but we'll see, won't we?


Yeah seems unlikely; HOWEVER - this year's NFL season has seen a record number of rookie QBs (plus a couple of other journeymen with weak resumes) forced to start, and some of them have been next to useless; so, there could possibly be some new thinking there about looking far & wide for new QBs - maybe, perhaps, possibly ? Ok - still doubtful. And I really doubt an NFL GM has to worry too much about which QBs they sign to be #3 camp competition. Kelly signed as a starter - like Warren Moon or Dieter Brock were right out of the CFL back when NFL thinking was different - now that might cause some howls of WTF . IF Kelly believes he has a shot at anything other than a #3 job right away, he, or his agent, is dreaming.

Little question in my mind that Kelly is a far superior QB talent to some of these stiffs who have been trotted out this season; but then again so is Nathan Rourke and he signed with a team where he had little hope to progress to #2.

[ArgoRavi]

Yeah seems unlikely; HOWEVER - this year's NFL season has seen a record number of rookie QBs (plus a couple of other journeymen with weak resumes) forced to start, and some of them have been next to useless; so, there could possibly be some new thinking there about looking far & wide for new QBs - maybe, perhaps, possibly ? Ok - still doubtful. And I really doubt an NFL GM has to worry too much about which QBs they sign to be #3 camp competition. Kelly signed as a starter - like Warren Moon or Dieter Brock were right out of the CFL back when NFL thinking was different - now that might cause some howls of WTF . IF Kelly believes he has a shot at anything other than a #3 job right away, he, or his agent, is dreaming.

Little question in my mind that Kelly is a far superior QB talent to some of these stiffs who have been trotted out this season; but then again so is Nathan Rourke and he signed with a team where he had little hope to progress to #2.

I can't see Kelly leaving for a #3 job in the NFL and, quite frankly, no NFL team is going to bring in a soon to be 30 year-old to be their developmental QB. Also, given that the 3rd QB is now almost always a practice roster QB, that would be a substantial pay cut for Kelly.

The only way he leaves for the NFL is if someone brings him in to be a #2 QB but I just don't see that happening either.

[argolio]

With scoring down, the NFL seems to be hungrier than ever for QBs. I think Kelly would go if he got an offer in a situation he liked. Such an offer may be unlikely, but all it takes is one.

I don't buy OV's claim that NFL thinking was different in the 80s. Moon's signing in 1984 is commonly accepted as the NFL atoning for GOBs (the real racist kind) overlooking him in the 70s. Moon's situation may have helped Brock a year later, but he had to work out for three teams before the Rams signed him. I don't remember Holloway, Dewalt or Dunigan being pursued for #1 NFL jobs. Sean Salisbury didn't get into a game with the Vikings until his 3rd year. Tom Clements didn't rise above #3 during his NFL attempt.

Dinwiddie's name has been brought up as a possible candidate for the head job at his alma mater Boise State. Losing our coach and QB would be really depressing.

[gilthethrill]

With Joe Burrow out in Cincinnati, the Bengals have elevated AJ McCarron to backup a guy named Jake Browning. Former Arlington Renegade QB Drew Plitt, who was just horrible…I mean horrible last XFL season has scored a PR agreement as a result of Burrow going out.

Times are tough in the NFL QB situation.

[Argo57]

With scoring down, the NFL seems to be hungrier than ever for QBs. I think Kelly would go if he got an offer in a situation he liked. Such an offer may be unlikely, but all it takes is one.

I don't buy OV's claim that NFL thinking was different in the 80s. Moon's signing in 1984 is commonly accepted as the NFL atoning for GOBs (the real racist kind) overlooking him in the 70s. Moon's situation may have helped Brock a year later, but he had to work out for three teams before the Rams signed him. I don't remember Holloway, Dewalt or Dunigan being pursued for #1 NFL jobs. Sean Salisbury didn't get into a game with the Vikings until his 3rd year. Tom Clements didn't rise above #3 during his NFL attempt.

Dinwiddie's name has been brought up as a possible candidate for the head job at his alma mater Boise State. Losing our coach and QB would be really depressing.

Yes it certainly would, I hope they both stay with the Argonauts but if it ever happened you would hope for some clarity sooner rather than later while some viable options are still available for Toronto.

[OV Argo]

With Joe Burrow out in Cincinnati, the Bengals have elevated AJ McCarron to backup a guy named Jake Browning. Former Arlington Renegade QB Drew Plitt, who was just horrible…I mean horrible last XFL season has scored a PR agreement as a result of Burrow going out.

Times are tough in the NFL QB situation.


And they still won't give a rat's @$$ about CFL QBs; pretty well every CFL team has a starter (and sometimes a #2) that are IMO far better QB talents than some of the stiffs that some NFL teams have been forced to trot out this season - maybe if there was an agreement to allow it after the CFL season, some desperate NFL teams might sign a Collaros or Kelly or Fajardo or Vernon Adams or Tre Ford, even as an emergency stop-gap type measure, but I don't think it would happen. And again - this is a good thing for the CFL, and hope the myopic morons stick to their thinking.

[primetime31]

I believe that Kelly would qualify as a fourth year NFLer should he go there, which would provide him with a pension and benefits. This may place him at a competitive disadvantage when compared with younger QB's when teams are considering what players to sign. I'm with Ravi with his assertion that it is a big longshot. However, all it takes is one GM and/or coach who is interested.....

[TICATS SUCK !]

Here are some facts and figures to consider about the season Brady Oliveira had.

Season Ranks: Total TD's: 1st
Yards Rushing: 1st
Yards Per Carry: 2nd
Receptions: 3RD
Receiving Yards: 2nd
Yards Per Catch: 1st

Prior to this season, since '86, 1500 or more yards rushing in a season had been accomplished 18x by 9 different RB's. Again since '86, 2000 yards from scrimmage had been accomplished 13x by 7 different RB's. This puts him in rather select company.

The MOP award has become the defacto best QB award. Including this season, QB's have won it 70.3% of the time since '86.

[Scooter McCray]

With Joe Burrow out in Cincinnati, the Bengals have elevated AJ McCarron to backup a guy named Jake Browning. Former Arlington Renegade QB Drew Plitt, who was just horrible…I mean horrible last XFL season has scored a PR agreement as a result of Burrow going out.

Times are tough in the NFL QB situation.Yet Nathan Rourke clears waivers TWICE this season. Head scratching stuff. They actually don't know what they are doing down there. Gives me hope the CFL can have stars at QB again. The NFL has zero respect for our game.

[paulwoods13]

Prior to this season, since '86, 1500 or more yards rushing in a season had been accomplished 18x by 9 different RB's. Again since '86, 2000 yards from scrimmage had been accomplished 13x by 7 different RB's. This puts him in rather select company.

The MOP award has become the defacto best QB award. Including this season, QB's have won it 70.3% of the time since '86.

How many of those 1,500-rush/2,000-scrimmage guys were named MOP? Not to take anything away from Oliveira, or any of those guys, but QB has a far greater impact on the game of football than any other position.

[AngeloV]

I believe that Kelly would qualify as a fourth year NFLer should he go there, which would provide him with a pension and benefits. This may place him at a competitive disadvantage when compared with younger QB's when teams are considering what players to sign. I'm with Ravi with his assertion that it is a big longshot. However, all it takes is one GM and/or coach who is interested.....

Not sure if it's still the case, but it might depends on how many times he's dressed. Used to be 50 games dressed which was he NFL's way of getting rid of fringe players that had played 3 seasons. 4th season meant a salary bump, so rookies would take the jobs of 4th year back ups. They were cheaper and the veterans got screwed out of their pensions.

[TICATS SUCK !]

In my previous post, I forgot to mention that QB's have won the MOP close to 3/4 of the time (73.9%) this century, including 7 of the last 8 winners.

[RB957]

Yet Nathan Rourke clears waivers TWICE this season. Head scratching stuff. They actually don't know what they are doing down there. Gives me hope the CFL can have stars at QB again. The NFL has zero respect for our game.

It is hard to believe that none of the Jets, Giants, Bengals, Browns and Patriots would pick Rourke off of the practise roster given how their own QB's have struggled. Other than having to add Rourke to the active roster, they would have nothing to lose. It does boggle the mind.

[Scooter McCray]

It is hard to believe that none of the Jets, Giants, Bengals, Browns and Patriots would pick Rourke off of the practise roster given how their own QB's have struggled. Other than having to add Rourke to the active roster, they would have nothing to lose. It does boggle the mind.I believe if given the opportunity he would never leave the field like Tom Brady when he came in for the injured Drew Bledsoe. Just as he never looked back when given the starting job in BC. He wasn't just good in BC, he was doing things as a QB that had not been done since Doug Flutie as a first year starter.

[Rich]

but QB has a far greater impact on the game of football than any other position.

Hey Paul, does this mean you’ve changed your view that QBs shouldn’t be credited with wins and losses?

Cuz I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, and would add that this season was living proof of the huge impact of QBing.

[Rich]

I believe if given the opportunity he would never leave the field like Tom Brady when he came in for the injured Drew Bledsoe. Just as he never looked back when given the starting job in BC. He wasn't just good in BC, he was doing things as a QB that had not been done since Doug Flutie as a first year starter.

I would take the Chad Kelly we saw in the first 9 games over Rourke any day of the week. Stronger runner, stronger arm.

[paulwoods13]

Hey Paul, does this mean you’ve changed your view that QBs shouldn’t be credited with wins and losses?

Cuz I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, and would add that this season was living proof of the huge impact of QBing.

Haven't changed my mind.

[OV Argo]

I would take the Chad Kelly we saw in the first 9 games over Rourke any day of the week. Stronger runner, stronger arm.

Negative, IMO; Kelly might have as strong an arm or stronger, but Rourke was flat-out better

[kellynjk]

Negative, IMO; Kelly might have as strong an arm or stronger, but Rourke was flat-out better

Totally agree that Rourke is a better quarterback!

[ArgoRavi]

I wish we could have seen Rourke play the entire second half of the 2022 season to see how he would have handled adjustments that teams threw at him.

[Will]

Did anyone see Chad joining Jay Onrait as a college football analyst yesterday?

[ArgoRavi]

Did anyone see Chad joining Jay Onrait as a college football analyst yesterday?

These are the kinds of opportunities that will keep Kelly in Toronto.

[Scooter McCray]

Did anyone see Chad joining Jay Onrait as a college football analyst yesterday?The one where Jay Onrait did not ask him a single question about his incredible first year as a pro starter for the Argos?
I understand he was there to talk NCAA, but that would be the same as having Patrick Mahomes on and not ask him a single question about the Chiefs. It wouldn't happen. TSN is some partner.