If you owned the Argos!

[Argoscflguy]

Ya I know it will never happen! But it's nice to dream, what would you do if you owned the double blue?

[tc23]

Braley is doing a good job, just needs to get the product out there a little more. Get more kids involved, Start selling merchandise all over Toronto, ex. retail stores. gas stations.

The GAME DAY ! should be an EVEVT ! Tailgate, even if its Corporate !! And you cant have games on week nights unless its a holiday

[argotom]

Like in the 60's have buses from all over the GTa bringing fans in.
It will take a while to fill up, but surely some sponsors can look after the initial loss.

[1argoholic]

Get an Argonaut store going and sell TiCat toilet paper for starters. Get the rivalry heated up again. Just like Michigan and Ohio St. They hate each other.

[Argoscflguy]

That's more like it!!!!!!! We need that rivalry heated up again!!!! Come on argo nation!!

[argofandave]

Like in the 60's have buses from all over the GTa bringing fans in.
It will take a while to fill up, but surely some sponsors can look after the initial loss.
The Ticats are experimenting with something like this. For 3 games (home opener, labour day, final game), there will be 56 person shuttle buses leaving Ancaster, Brantford, Burlington, Grimsby, Kitchener, and St Catharines and arriving at IWS 45 minutes prior to kickoff and leaving 30 minutes after the game ends. Sun Media, Rona, and Coach Canada are all sponsors. I think the pick up takes place at Rona stores.

[Hollaway]

LOL 1argoholic, why not.

[Argoscflguy]

Why don't the Argos organize something like this?

[Hollaway]

I think it would be great, but would the front office go for it?

[1argoholic]

Just read on the Argonaut site about the things going on at the game tonight. Seems like they're trying. I have no clue who the singer is there talking about though. Not my kind of music obviously. Pinballs daughter Rachell is going to be doing give a ways and helping in the booth with the stadium announcer. I wonder how old she is now. I remember when she was a baby. She's got to be pushing 20.

[Will]

Just read on the Argonaut site about the things going on at the game tonight. Seems like they're trying. I have no clue who the singer is there talking about though. Not my kind of music obviously. Pinballs daughter Rachell is going to be doing give a ways and helping in the booth with the stadium announcer. I wonder how old she is now. I remember when she was a baby. She's got to be pushing 20.

I don't know if this is his oldest daughter--wasn't one born around 1996 or 1997? I remember this from his biography.

[Invader]

As owner of the Argos, he should realize that if enough fans don't want to come out to the stadium to watch games live, the team cannot exist and perhaps should not exist. A CFL team can't survive with mainly TV fans, the Argos need a core of at least 25,000 fans buying tickets to pay the bills.

Job #1 should be to build the seasons ticket base to a minimum of 16,000 or hopefully nearer the CFL average of 20,000. Tickets need to be sold and telemarketing is the tried and true method.

Every effective marketing campaign needs a gimmick...or a good reason why you're calling, emailing or twitting people. Announce the Argos have made the decision to blackout their TV broadcasts (in SD and HD) in the GTA when ticket sales are under 26,000 (48 hours before kickoff.) This would be a 3-year pilot project to ascertain the viability of the Argos in this marketplace. A maximum of 6 home games could be blacked-out each season (in accordance with the new TV contract). The media will be all over this saying how stupid the Argos are = more free advertising!

Contact 1 million people in the GTA and inform them that starting next season Argo home games will not be televised in the GTA (if ticket sales are under 26,000.) To guarantee they can still watch the Argo home games they need to buy a ticket: single game, flex packs or preferably seasons tickets. To compensate for the blackouts and to encourage fans to buy tickets, prices will be slashed by 20%-40% across the board. This is the reason why people are being contacted... to BAN THE BLACKOUT and save money on tickets to watch Toronto's Football Team!

Everybody could chip in to sell tickets and Ban the Blackout, including the players, coaches, management (if only in the off-season), fans (earn discounts and commissions) and professional sales reps. Make 150 calls per day per agent. Don't give up until all sales targets are met. Call former subscribers, subscribers of other teams, people out of the phone book...wherever they are. Just sell those tickets.

On game day have ticket kiosks/buskers at busy downtown intersections selling tickets. Have a boogie bus with loudspeakers announcing Argo game day with ticket agents walking alongside on the street. Partner with businesses on busy streets to become ticket agents with the Argo signs in their windows, sandwich boards, etc., announcing Argo game day. Of course, this would be a multi-media, multi-platform campaign that would leave no stone unturned to Ban the Blackout! Let's Pull Together and fill the stadium!!

[eiben35]

I love what David Braley and Chris Rudge are doing in Toronto. The one thing that they should get done immediately is buy a practice facility. It is absolutely disgusting and an embarassment to the CFL and Toronto. I can`t believe they had the 1971 Argos do their press conference there.

[1argoholic]

I think Pinball has Rachell, Raven and Riley if I remember right. Oh yah Rachell has to be 18-20. I can remember the cutie at some events. She had to be 7 or 8 when we moved and that was ten years back.

It would be sweet if they could build a nice facility where they are now. The setting is great.

[flafson]

Put buses all over the GTA to take people to the game, open the whole stadium and price it all to sell out everytime. They already have the hard part covered when they brought Rickey Ray who gives us some winning chance.

[jerrym]

I simply want to thank Braley for taking over the Argos when no one else wanted to. Braley and Bob Ackles took five years to rebuild the Lions fan base in Vancouver after it collapsed, so be patient. Rudge seems to be doing a good job.

[argonaut11xx]

I simply want to thank Braley for taking over the Argos when no one else wanted to. Braley and Bob Ackles took five years to rebuild the Lions fan base in Vancouver after it collapsed, so be patient. Rudge seems to be doing a good job.

UM...while i agree with your comments...the "lions fan base" has dropped off ...after all the work done by Braley, Ackles, Buono, winning a Grey Cup, having a young upcoming star QB..a refurbished awesome stadium....and the folks in BC dont show up?...maybe they shouldnt have won the cup so quickly, and teased the fans for a few seasons?

I think being close every year builds a better fan base, than winning it all....look at the Argo's fluke win with Damon Allen...they were building a nice fan base, then won, and interest declined.

Rudge is doing a good job in the corporate world for sure, but the Argo's need a guy who will be in "johnny lunch-pails" face as well...cause those Johnnys are the bums in the seats...

[Gill The Thrill]

Someone mentioned a real practice facility which is really needed, especially in connection or in combination with a 30,000 seat Canadian Football field Stadium with the Argos owning the majority of it, in partnership with possibly the CIS, Football Canada, Rugby Canada, or Football Ontario which all could benefit from this facility.

This would give the Toronto Argonauts tremendous credibility in this marketplace and throughout the league. The CFL and the entire sport of Canadian Football in general would get a real boost with such a facility.



I think being close every year builds a better fan base, than winning it all....look at the Argo's fluke win with Damon Allen...they were building a nice fan base, then won, and interest declined.


You sound like an MLSE executive talking about the Leafs from 1998-2004. I have to disagree with you about the 2004 Grey Cup Argo victory as it was neither fluke and did not result in declined interest....the attendance was better in 2005 than it was in 2004 and was steady in '06 and '07. Attendance always tapered off when the Argos would raise ticket prices, that's the way it's been for 20 years, maybe even upto 27 years with this organization.

Markets like Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Montreal have always shown some volatility unfortunately and have had crowds that have gone up and down depending on on-field success, and possibly pricing points.

BC did win the Grey Cup and do play in the refurbished stadium, but fans won't show up even in a new stadium if you've outpriced them to the point of making it unaffordable. Let's face it, walk up tickets between the goal lines for Argo games don't probably sell at all...look at where everybody sits..that's got to tell you something.

[argonaut11xx]

Hey Gill...i dont disagree with your thoughts, or Invaders ideas above....i really think a smart combination of ALL idea's is what is required...The Argo's are an excellent product, no one can argue.

That said, you may disagree with my comments above...but i will only quote the legendary "Smokey Robinson" to further my arguement...

"A taste of honey is worse than none at all"....

Keep the fans hungry.....after a huge meal, dont you want to go for a nap?

[jerrym]

UM...while i agree with your comments...the "lions fan base" has dropped off ...after all the work done by Braley, Ackles, Buono, winning a Grey Cup, having a young upcoming star QB..a refurbished awesome stadium....and the folks in BC dont show up?...maybe they shouldnt have won the cup so quickly, and teased the fans for a few seasons?



I think being close every year builds a better fan base, than winning it all....look at the Argo's fluke win with Damon Allen...they were building a nice fan base, then won, and interest declined.



Rudge is doing a good job in the corporate world for sure, but the Argo's need a guy who will be in "johnny lunch-pails" face as well...cause those Johnnys are the bums in the seats...

It has always been hard to attract fans to BC Place in the all too brief summer. Attendance usually increases from Labour Day onward. Furthermore, the last home game drew 28,000 plus, still way ahead of the crowds in the teens at the lowpoint of Lions attendance in past seasons. BCers are notorious fair-weather fans who have jumped on and off many bandwagons including their soccer, baseball, lacrosse, football and even hockey teams (there was a time when the Canucks were only getting 8,000 to 10,000 fans at their games). Could it happen again? Yes. However, the Lions are doing a good enough job to be moderately successful economically and Braley deserves complements for this.

[1argoholic]

If I owned the team we'd have one big stadium donut fight.

[Gill The Thrill]

BCers are notorious fair-weather fans who have jumped on and off many bandwagons including their soccer, baseball, lacrosse, football and even hockey teams (there was a time when the Canucks were only getting 8,000 to 10,000 fans at their games). Could it happen again? Yes. However, the Lions are doing a good enough job to be moderately successful economically and Braley deserves complements for this.

It's true about BC fans being fairweather, but Vancouver has basically become the Western Toronto or Montreal when it comes to sports watching. The Football, soccer and whatever other teams they have may have the bandwagon up and down attendance but that has, nor will it ever apply to their NHL team and their Canucks and has not for 20 years.....The Canucks in Vancouver, like the Leafs in TO or the Habs in Montreal will always sell now that the team has been established for over 40 years in their marketplace.

It's true the Canucks did have crowds of 10-11k sometimes for the first 15-20 years of thier existence because they were a new franchise marketing to a generation of older fans with money that were still Leaf fans (like many westerners) from the original 6 days. Today, the majority of Vancouver and BC hockey fans grew up with Canucks and with some franchise players that have given that team an identity like Trevor Linden, Pavel Bure, and even Roberto Loungo, Markus Naslund over the years....The team was mostly awful and had no identity from 1970-1990. The days of 10k crowds, or crowds under a sellout are extremely rare. The NHL has become just as hard a ticket in Van City as it has in Toronto and Montreal, and the league generally is a tough ticket and sells really well in all its Canadian Market. It's why 40% of league revenues are generated by the 7 teams in Canada.

[1argoholic]

I remember coming to Vancouver for Grey Cup 86 and staying with my cousin and his girlfriend at the time who's his wife now. Anyhow we went to two Canucks games and walked up like you'd be walking into a Provincial Jr A game and buying great seats. We got seats right against the glass an hour before the game.

[argonaut11xx]

The Canucks...YUK....my Fav Canuck of all time was "Dunc Wilson"

[Will]

It's true about BC fans being fairweather, but Vancouver has basically become the Western Toronto or Montreal when it comes to sports watching. The Football, soccer and whatever other teams they have may have the bandwagon up and down attendance but that has, nor will it ever apply to their NHL team and their Canucks and has not for 20 years.....The Canucks in Vancouver, like the Leafs in TO or the Habs in Montreal will always sell now that the team has been established for over 40 years in their marketplace.

It's true the Canucks did have crowds of 10-11k sometimes for the first 15-20 years of thier existence because they were a new franchise marketing to a generation of older fans with money that were still Leaf fans (like many westerners) from the original 6 days. Today, the majority of Vancouver and BC hockey fans grew up with Canucks and with some franchise players that have given that team an identity like Trevor Linden, Pavel Bure, and even Roberto Loungo, Markus Naslund over the years....The team was mostly awful and had no identity from 1970-1990. The days of 10k crowds, or crowds under a sellout are extremely rare. The NHL has become just as hard a ticket in Van City as it has in Toronto and Montreal, and the league generally is a tough ticket and sells really well in all its Canadian Market. It's why 40% of league revenues are generated by the 7 teams in Canada.

Canuck fans also have some sort of obsessive hard-on hatred for the Leafs, too.

[Gill The Thrill]

The Canucks...YUK....my Fav Canuck of all time was "Dunc Wilson"My favourite Canucks are John Gould, Dennis Kearns, Rick Blight, Ron Sedlbauer and of course Harold Snepsts...lol. Can't forget Cesare Maniago. I remember those old Canuck players from the 70's because I kept getting their trading cards. It was tough to always get the star players or multiple traders of Lafleur, Dionne and Trottier, but boy did I have a collection of Don Lever, Chris Oddliefson, and Curt Ridley cards....my trade proposal of "I'll take your Bossy rookie card for Dennis Vervegaert", never went too well.

I know I've partaked in taking this thread a little off-topic...but those 70's Canuck teams were always in great brawls

Check this gem from 1977, Harold Snepsts taking on Dave "The Hammer" Schultz...gotta love the banana look LA Kings...LOL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwhGMg92_Ok

[1argoholic]

Younger folks who cant't remember hockey from the 70's wouldn't believe how crazy it was. Ledgendary brawls. I remember a few doozies with the Leafs and both the Flyers and NYR.

I say a huge Canuck YUK as well. My fave Canuck of all time would have to be Oh I'd have to dig out my old Esso Power Play Album to refresh my memory. The only stamp I'm missing is a Canuck, Rosaire Paimount I believe was the spelling.

[argolio]

Rosaire Paimount I believe was the spelling.Paiement. I had his 71-72 card as part of my O-Pee-Chee set, which I stupidly gave away to a cousin (and that set is one of the most valuable from that era).

I think your 70-71 Esso set is pretty valuable as well. I may have a few of those stamps in a box somewhere.

[Will]

Brother of #99 Wilf Paiement

[ArgoRavi]

Brother of #99 Wilf Paiement

Yes, the Paiements were legends in their tiny hometown of Earlton, Ontario which was only nine miles from where I grew up. The patriarch of that clan (Wilf Sr.) was a champion wrist-wrestler.

[1argoholic]

I once took a sign and hung it along the wall near Harold Ballards lair at Maple Leaf Gardens. It was an Oilers/Leafs game. My sign Read The Great Number 99, Paiement that is.
The Leafs one 7-1 Gretz was stopped on a penalty shot and my buddy tossed an M and M's down Waynes tucked in shirt while he was on the bench. No glass between players and fans back then. The next day my sign was written about in The Star. Great memories I'll never forget.

[AngeloV]

Younger folks who cant't remember hockey from the 70's wouldn't believe how crazy it was. Ledgendary brawls. I remember a few doozies with the Leafs and both the Flyers and NYR.

I say a huge Canuck YUK as well. My fave Canuck of all time would have to be Oh I'd have to dig out my old Esso Power Play Album to refresh my memory. The only stamp I'm missing is a Canuck, Rosaire Paimount I believe was the spelling.

I had a blast hanging out with Rosaire Paiment and a bunch of retired Montreal Canadians at the hotel bar he owns (I think he still owns it) in Fort Lauderdale in '95, the Penalty Box lounge. I was there in March and needed my Hockey fix, and he had all the games on. Really nice guy.

[1argoholic]

If I owened the Argos I'd allow Ping to toss Mr. Freezies again. Who remembers those days when Ping would buy a whole bunch of them and get up and get everyone pumped and start tossing them around. All fun and games until someone gets a Ping tossed freezie in the eye. haha.

[Mulder]

If I owened the Argos I'd allow Ping to toss Mr. Freezies again. Who remembers those days when Ping would buy a whole bunch of them and get up and get everyone pumped and start tossing them around. All fun and games until someone gets a Ping tossed freezie in the eye. haha.

Attendance has never recovered since he stopped doing that.

[argomANIA]

If I owened the Argos I'd allow Ping to toss Mr. Freezies again. Who remembers those days when Ping would buy a whole bunch of them and get up and get everyone pumped and start tossing them around. All fun and games until someone gets a Ping tossed freezie in the eye. haha.


Here you go
136

[1argoholic]

Ania that is too funny. No way you wanted to get a Ping fast freezie to the head. hahaha. Perfect shot, thanks.

[ArgoRavi]

If I owned the Argos, I would lower ticket prices.

Owners are always scared that lowering prices will "devalue the brand."

Well, guess what fat cats? An empty stadium devalues the brand, and the image.

Argos should lower the ticket prices until they can consistently get 30,000 fans a game in the Skydome.

I realize, it doesn't help that they don't own the stadium and get nothing from stadium revenue.

But getting more paying fans will pay off in many ways. More interest, more merchandise sales, sponsorship, and perhaps your own stadium once you build a decent fanbase.

You know what else I would do? Sell to MLSE (Bell and Rogers).

Bell and Rogers control the hearts and minds of millions of sheeple like myself, through the media which they own 90% of. They are monopolistic companies who can control the minds of Simpleton Consumers like myself, who we need to buy tickets and get drunk before the game, make noise and make the Argos cool again.

Again, I'm remember just a simpleton who is nowhere near sophisticated enough to discover my own Sports Team to root for based on its merits. I need CTV News to tell me what's cool. Therefore, I need the money behind Bell/Rogers, with all their tentacles, to make me like a sports team before I will cheer for them and spend my money on them.

Chris Rudge's plan is to get the Argos to a profitable position within the next five years where an entity such as Bell or Rogers would have an interest in purchasing them from Braley.

[1argoholic]

Rogers has had their chance before. The marketing could have been great with both the Jays and Argos under their ownership.
I don't see Rogers having any interest.
Maybe Justin Bieber is an Argo fan and at this point could afford them with all his coin. He'd bring in a younger crowd.

[Gill The Thrill]

Why do we need a corporate faceless entity to own a CFL team. The expenses are nowhere near those of MLB, NHL, NBA or NFL. Do you really think Bell/Rogers would pony up a dime for a stadium which is what is needed for self-survival.

I could see Bell/ Rogers buying the Argos, but in much the same manner that Harry Ornest did. To have the football rights to the dome, and to make sure that those football dates will be filled at the dome...I don't think this would necessarily be better than having a group that really wanted to own a CFL team. If the team can get help building a stadium or having other sources of revenue making them have a chance at being profitable, then other people or companies would be interested.


Rogers has had their chance before. The marketing could have been great with both the Jays and Argos under their ownership.
I don't see Rogers having any interest.
Maybe Justin Bieber is an Argo fan and at this point could afford them with all his coin. He'd bring in a younger crowd.

In 5 to 10 years, Justin Bieber may be as popular as Debbie Gibson, or Tiffany.....you may ask who are they?...my point exactly. The boy bands of 10-15 years ago are just as dated....New Kids...what was that other crap...that came after....see I already forgot their name....Bieber is next...lol.

[Hollaway]

Now there's an idea Gill The Thrill lol, can't stand Bieber's music and his alter ego, but he has the coin ;).

[AngeloV]

Why do we need a corporate faceless entity to own a CFL team. The expenses are nowhere near those of MLB, NHL, NBA or NFL. Do you really think Bell/Rogers would pony up a dime for a stadium which is what is needed for self-survival.

I could see Bell/ Rogers buying the Argos, but in much the same manner that Harry Ornest did. To have the football rights to the dome, and to make sure that those football dates will be filled at the dome...I don't think this would necessarily be better than having a group that really wanted to own a CFL team. If the team can get help building a stadium or having other sources of revenue making them have a chance at being profitable, then other people or companies would be interested.

One reason that a corporate owner may be better is that it's a lot easier to hide your losses that way, should the team continue to lose money. Especially a media giant like Bell or Rogers. They can offset any loss as advertisement for their products. Individual owners may not want to, or even be able to lose a couple of million a year.

[1argoholic]

Remember the Carlsburg Days or Carling Okeefe. I almost got run over by the Carlsburg Horse Team at the Grey Cup 83 Championship Parade. They had a team of horses like the Bud ones. Remember Carling Bassett the owners tennis playing daughter, oh and the mascot the Carlsbird.

Beibers name just happen topop in my head as he's Canadian and sickly wealthy. Not into his music but at least he wasn't set up in music. The kid isn't like all of those boy bands even if his music is crap. As long as this world has kids there will be the Debbie Gibsons and Leif Garretts of the world. Remember him. haha.

[Gill The Thrill]

Remember the Carlsburg Days or Carling Okeefe. I almost got run over by the Carlsburg Horse Team at the Grey Cup 83 Championship Parade. They had a team of horses like the Bud ones. Remember Carling Bassett the owners tennis playing daughter, oh and the mascot the Carlsbird.


Almost run over by the Carlsberg Clydesdales' ...hahaha...lol. Your stories are the best.:) Did you also happen to possibly almost get run over by the old Argo Coca-Cola sponsored helmet-mobile that they used to cart out after TD's at the EX with the siren on top. That guy used to drive that cart pretty quickly if I remember well...surprised he never ran into any players.

[argos1873]

One reason that a corporate owner may be better is that it's a lot easier to hide your losses that way, should the team continue to lose money. Especially a media giant like Bell or Rogers. They can offset any loss as advertisement for their products. Individual owners may not want to, or even be able to lose a couple of million a year.

But if a corporate owner wished to own the Argos so that they can use losses as write offs, then there will never be a reason for them to want them to make money, and will treat the team as such. And then after several years of losing money, tax auditors will be at their throats, and so will share holders and they will just sell the team to the next highest bidder, which might just be the CFL again. The Argos, at this point and time, need a private owner, or group, that has the will and want, to own the Argos, and the political force to wield a new stadium, which in my opinion will make football appear to be a fun place to be (although in my opinion, Skydome is a fun place to watch football), and where they can recoup all the concession profits. Maybe, since there is no owner or ownership group apparent, besides Braley who has the Lions as well already, we should consider the community ownership route? Although there probably at this time, not enough support needed for that idea to take flight. Would be great though if we could get enough core Argo fans in behind the team with CASH, and a dedicated leader with political power, to make a new stadium happen. Wishful thinking, I know.

[1argoholic]

Me and a buddy from Humber College bought some booze and headed to the parade. I was so excited looking at the float in front of the Carlsburg Horse Team that I jumped off the curb and my buddy grabbed me and pulled me back. Crazy stuff.
I saw that old Argo Helmet rotting away behind a company on Matheson Rd close to the Etobicoke border while doing my snow plow route about 15 to 20 years back.