Big win! But waters owens??

[Argoscflguy]

Well your finger nails are probably all chewed up! But we won and that's all that matters! This swayze waters kid is very shaky! And what's with butter fingers Owens?

[KCargosfan]

Well your finger nails are probably all chewed up! But we won and that's all that matters! This swayze waters kid is very shaky! And what's with butter fingers Owens?

I thought Waters was great punting. 10 punts for a 45.4 average. Yeah, he missed the field goal, but everything else looked all right. Hopefully not too many misses from him in the future.

The rest of the offense looked very tired the second half. Screw Rogers for making us play this game on 3 days rest.

[tc23]

I think his nick name is Stone Hand Owens !! I guess that y he has'nt scored a touchdown in 22 Games !!

Too Bad Buck Pierce did not play i think the game would have been a little different !!

[1argoholic]

Waters was thrown into the fire but did well. If he relaxes and just punts and kicks off he'll pin everyone deep. No returns on them tonight. He'll be ok with more practice on fieldgoals with his snapper and holder. That last Owens fumble was no yards.

I'm glad we could pull out a win with basically no practice leading into this game.

[Argoscflguy]

Not saying he did horrible, he just looked a bit shaky, but then again we just signed him! Owens looks like he just can't Waite for that ball to come that he almost takes over runs it! But other then that I thought the Argos played well, their db,s were on fire, those poor bomber receivers had no chance! And what can u say about ray, cool and calm in the pocket! A true master of offence! AARRRGGOOSSSSS!

[larz-7]

for waters first game with little to no practice time he did not bad.owens well i think he was tired and not thinking right.this was a concern from get go, playing both on offense and special teams.add in a short week.

[AngeloV]

I think his nick name is Stone Hand Owens !! I guess that y he has'nt scored a touchdown in 22 Games !!



Ummm...You do know he scored one tonight, right? And he had a few on returns last year too.

[Nob]

Owens is playing well this year, but he still needs to work on holding on to the ball.

[ArgoRavi]

Too Bad Buck Pierce did not play i think the game would have been a little different !!

I doubt that Buck would have made much difference tonight. Brink struggled but Pierce would have been killed by the Argo defence tonight.


Waters was thrown into the fire but did well. If he relaxes and just punts and kicks off he'll pin everyone deep. No returns on them tonight. He'll be ok with more practice on fieldgoals with his snapper and holder. That last Owens fumble was no yards.

I'm glad we could pull out a win with basically no practice leading into this game.

How was that Owens' "fumble" not no yards? I really can't understand that non-call. I too thought that Waters did well for his first game on only a couple of days of practice. He missed the 46 yard FG and had one poor punt but was quite good otherwise and he had to punt a lot tonight.

[LLB997]

Waters looked good i thought. solid punting and accuracy on that early field goal attempt could be attributed to neves but his distance was not an issue at all. Owens? He played well tonight. I thought that 1 return where he fumbled the punt was a situation where the ball dropped early and he had to take about 8 steps to pick it up before bouncing and then with the D literally on top of him he lost his focus. With all the crazy punt returns goin on this season i am jonzin to see Owens show what he is capable of in that aspect. But nice to see him get the TD monkey off his back.

[Will]

Both PR fumbles that Owens have had over the last few weeks were slightly similar. They were both on punts where he had to catch it on the run. The one against Hamilton he didn't fumble immediately IIRC though.

[paulwoods13]

Owens and Waters were horrible and should be cut.

[ArgoGabe22]

Owens and Waters were horrible and should be cut.

Yup totally agree, everyone who screws up deserves to get cut on the field ;)

[Will]

Owens and Waters were horrible and should be cut.

Bit of a knee-jerk reaction there, eh Paul :D

[Argoscflguy]

Watching Owens play makes me nervous!!! When he touches the ball I'm thinking oh NO!!!!! Don't loose that ball!!!!!

[Invader]

You've got to admire Swaze's moxie bouncing up unscathed after being destroyed on his intended hit on the kick returner (his first kick I believe). Washington lowered his shoulder and caught Swaze right on the chin sending him into a flying somersault. He shrugged it off but you know he'll be sore today.

[mchesher03]

You've got to admire Swaze's moxie bouncing up unscathed after being destroyed on his intended hit on the kick returner (his first kick I believe). Washington lowered his shoulder and caught Swaze right on the chin sending him into a flying somersault. He shrugged it off but you know he'll be sore today.

and a great way to earn your teammates' respect in the process.

[matchuk]

owens did have butter fingers tonight but cmon, should we bring back bashir levingston or spurgeon winn? waters looked pretty good for 1 day of practice

[jerrym]

I thought Waters did a good job punting with a 45 yard average. Perhaps his one potential weakness was he was a little slow getting the punt off leaving the possibility of being blocked in the future. His field goal kicking could need some work or it might just have been nerves on his first attempt. However, if his slicing off to the side initial kick is indicative of a tendency to do that, it tends to be a habit that many kickers have found hard to overcome - a habit that has often quickly ended their careers.

[Gill The Thrill]

Yup totally agree, everyone who screws up deserves to get cut on the field ;)

You may laugh, but Owens has made one serious error for every game this season, that does not bode well in the long term.

By the way, people do get cut in training camp because they screw up. Remember that Hewitt guy last year, Owens mistakes are no less than his this season and he was cut. Barker last season even threatened to cut Kackert on the field after a fumble and we had many yahoos on here who thought it would have been justified because he was not a fan favourite. Owens gets yardage, I'm not disputing that, but one could argue that he cost the Argos a victory in Edmonton by dropping a perfect pass in the end zone, nearly cost the team a win on Wednesday and had an error that was instrumental in the loss last Saturday to the Ticats.

You could make an argument that your effectiveness is judged not by the plays you make, but by the plays you fail to make which results in turnovers. If judging by the latter, Owens is inconsistent this year and is nowhere near the best return guy in the CFL this season....Larry Taylor and Chevon Walker are both better than him right now, so if he does not shape up and scrape the butter off his fingers, I would not be against trading him while he still has value...provided you get someone that could help immediately in return.

Cut for nothing, I don't think is a good move, but a trade to plug up a hole, or to solidify a position would not be that bad despite Primadonna Owens being a fan favourite among some.

[ArgoZ]

^ Ouch! Some hard truth there Gill.

[AngeloV]

^ Ouch! Some hard truth there Gill.

More the ramblings of a bitter hater IMO.

[ArgoZ]

More the ramblings of a bitter hater IMO.

I understand Owens does rub some the wrong way with his cocky attitude. I will give Owens some slack due to the fact that he has never been a starting reciever until coming here. However, you can't ignore the fact that his screwups do come at the utmost important times, which can be so frustrasting as Gill pointed out.

[AngeloV]

I understand Owens does rub some the wrong way with his cocky attitude. I will give Owens some slack due to the fact that he has never been a starting reciever until coming here. However, you can't ignore the fact that his screwups do come at the utmost important times, which can be so frustrasting as Gill pointed out.

If he wanted to be constructive with his criticism, than the term Primadonna would never have been used in his rant. Owens is definitely not a primadonna, but I guess with the big paycheck, comes the hating from some.

[ArgoRavi]

The only thing that Owens is guilty of is trying too hard to make something out of nothing which is when his fumbles tend to occur. For instance, against Hamilton he made a great catch on the punt and then got up and fumbled the ball before it was fully secured. He probably should have just stayed down on that play after making the great catch but he wanted to get up and run it back for a TD. Obviously, you want that kind of "get up and go" but that is also when he tends to fumble. I am not sure what the solution is though because you don't want to make Owens less aggressive but you do want him to secure the ball better.

[ArgoRavi]

Barker last season even threatened to cut Kackert on the field after a fumble and we had many yahoos on here who thought it would have been justified because he was not a fan favourite.

This is where you have lost me, Gill. Kackert certainly seems to be a fan favourite on this forum at least.

[Gill The Thrill]

If he wanted to be constructive with his criticism, than the term Primadonna would never have been used in his rant. Owens is definitely not a primadonna, but I guess with the big paycheck, comes the hating from some.

Fan favourite of yours right...I thought so. :D

I just call it the way I see it, and if you don't like it too bad....the team can't be run like a high school popularity contest. You have to treat all players the same...we can't say we expect high standards from everybody, but then tolerate the same mistakes from the few....This sends a bad message to all players and plays against team unity. I'm consistent and have had the same criticisms of two players last year...one is no longer on the club, thankfully and one who does play but was crying to the media about off-field stuff.

I chose to use the word, primadonna because Owens comes off as one when it comes to his griping about his pay last season and about being a starting receiver....Based on his dropped passes, he's not a starting receiver, and based on his muffs during punt returns, he has been inconsistent and is proving to not be worth the money.

I want to pay money to watch players perform, not to see them fall in love with themselves everytime the camera pans the Argo bench...Sorry, but that's just the way I feel.

I'll take Durie's character and his consistency anyday over Owens.


The only thing that Owens is guilty of is trying too hard to make something out of nothing which is when his fumbles tend to occur. For instance, against Hamilton he made a great catch on the punt and then got up and fumbled the ball before it was fully secured. He probably should have just stayed down on that play after making the great catch but he wanted to get up and run it back for a TD. Obviously, you want that kind of "get up and go" but that is also when he tends to fumble. I am not sure what the solution is though because you don't want to make Owens less aggressive but you do want him to secure the ball better.He's got to hold onto the ball...I like Owens, but he's of no use to the team if he cannot hold onto the ball.

As for the solution, here's an old Texas trick from a movie clip that might help.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0qG34a5oqY


This is where you have lost me, Gill. Kackert certainly seems to be a fan favourite on this forum at least.

He became a fan favourite to some after a few hundred yard games...but there were a lot of people who kept harping on his near goal line fumble in that game at Commonwealth last year instead of the many positive plays he made in that game.

Terms like "fumble machine" is one I remember off-hand...and that's fine, but if you're going to say that about one player, then you need to say that about others that have been fumble prone this season. Unfortunately Owens has fumbled a few too many times for my liking, probably Milanovich's liking and probably to his too. He's an exciting player, but I think he's starting to press too much for those extra yards because he notices guys like Larry Taylor, and Chevon Walker, and even Chris Williams chewing up the return yardage....He's got to just do his thing and hold onto the ball. The big returns will come.

As for the Friday Night Lights clip...this is kind of tongue in cheek...Let's bring a little levity to this board and not take everything so seriously, so don't slag me for that. By the same token these guys are football players and they're paid to produce so some justified criticism should be more than welcome. If someone disagrees that's fine, but to have someone refer to me as a hater because I'm critical is just plain silly.

Like I said, I call it the way I see it.

[AngeloV]

I'll take Durie's character and his consistency anyday over Owens.

So you had no issue with the 2 drops Durie had Wednesday, one which had the great possibility of going for a TD? OK, who's playing favourites now?


He became a fan favourite to some after a few hundred yard games...but there were a lot of people who kept harping on his near goal line fumble in that game at Commonwealth last year instead of the many positive plays he made in that game.



Now you are simply making things up and contradicting yourself.

In his 4 starts last year, he had 1 hundred yard game (a far cry from the "few" you claim), and had 3 fumbles (the same amount Owens has had in 4 games this year, but Owens has made a lot more big plays than Kackert did). Not that he performed poorly, but not quite what you say.


Here are the links to the official stat lines from each of those games:

http://www.cfl.ca/statistics/statsGame/id/716

http://www.cfl.ca/statistics/statsGame/id/712

http://www.cfl.ca/statistics/statsGame/id/705

http://www.cfl.ca/statistics/statsGame/id/701

[gilthethrill]

After abstaining from any media since Wednesday night, I finally got done watching the game...only to have my PVR stop with 1:43 left as Brink was rolling out to pass on 3 & 10 down by 3...called a buddy who told me the Argos held.

Tough to say it was a great game, but this is what happens with short time between games for both teams. Argo D is very solid, Flemmons may play db at some point, but the O has to find itself. Perhaps with Boyd still being fatigued from the Hamilton game, Kackert could have dress to spell him? I know that is easier said than done. Why was Alix dressed when Swayze "Bridge over troubled" Waters did all the kicking duties?

Montreal is up next, really believe that Reinbolds D can be scored upon.

[argolio]

Owens comes off as one when it comes to his griping about his pay last season and about being a starting receiverHow exactly can a guy who was a free agent before the 2011 season (hence not under contract) and who was deciding between at least two offers (the Argos and the Jets in the NFL) be accused of griping about his pay?

What a bizarre comment.

[Argoscflguy]

Owens for chevon walker!!!!!!!!!

[marcwagz]

Owens for chevon walker!!!!!!!!!
no way. Walker looks good but
a) he's unproven
b) he's not shown he's a kick returner which we need owens for
c) we have the leading rusher in the league already in Boyd.

no deal

[flafson]

I'm amazed that Boyd is leading right now. He seems slow compared to some of the other guys in the league and yet he's 70 yards above everyone else.
BTW, i really like Owens. He does misfire sometimes but creates big plays too.

[Gill The Thrill]

How exactly can a guy who was a free agent before the 2011 season (hence not under contract) and who was deciding between at least two offers (the Argos and the Jets in the NFL) be accused of griping about his pay?

What a bizarre comment.

Owens was smart enough to know that a trip to an NFL training camp which could have seen him possibly cut or put on a practice roster would not have helped his bargaining power. We've seen many guys sign with the NFL to only come back to the CFL and be half the player they were, especially if they had little game action during their stay in the NFL.

He would never make it as an every down receiver in the NFL, but was pretty much guaranteed the position by Barker, or for all we know, he might have taken the Jets offer. You don't guarantee any players any starting position if it prevents you (the GM) from bringing in possible improvements in that position.

[flafson]

He is too short to be anything in the NFL IMO. It's almost a requirement for a receiver in the NFL to be 6'2'' or taller.

[Gill The Thrill]

Now you are simply making things up and contradicting yourself.

In his 4 starts last year, he had 1 hundred yard game (a far cry from the "few" you claim), and had 3 fumbles (the same amount Owens has had in 4 games this year, but Owens has made a lot more big plays than Kackert did). Not that he performed poorly, but not quite what you say.




You fail to understand the premise of my post...it's not about exact numbers, it's about the inconsistencies of some posters like yourself have in the treatment of certain players...I said the same last season, and I'll say it again this season. If you're going to lambaste one guy, any guy, I just picked Kackert as a comparison, then lambaste them all. I find that Chad Owens is getting a little too much rope from some who are defending his inconsistent play...that's it.

The guy dropped a pass that was right on the numbers with nobody beside him in Edmonton...if that's not a huge mistake, then man you've got low standards. He's made untimely errors, not that any error is timely, in every other game also. One thing that a team who wants to win cannot do is give away possession after their defence has stopped the other team's offence....these special teams turnovers are momentum killers and one could say Owens is guilty of these type of turnovers for the last 3 weeks. Last week's happened late in the 4th quarter and cost the Argos the lead. Thankfully for Owens, the team and the fans, Ray and the offence bailed him out...but you can't keep giving leads away in the 4th quarter and expect to be a winning team, let alone, a Grey Cup contender.


He is too short to be anything in the NFL IMO. It's almost a requirement for a receiver in the NFL to be 6'2'' or taller.

That's a load of B.S, not that you're wrong according to the scouts manual, but some of the most exciting guys have been smaller even in the receiver possession in the NFL...Wes Welker is probably the best all-around receiver in the last 4 years, and he's 5'9.

It's this mentality that's seen NFL fans lose out on seeing some of the best athletes ever because idiot GM's, scouts and coaches have followed a textbook when making their roster instead of just using their eyes...It's why guys like Doug Flutie was a 6 time CFL MVP, when he could have started for 80% - %90 of the teams in the NFL during that same time period. Instead we see guys who are a bunch of lookers but come up short in big games....the Randy Moss' type player who has a carear year in their rookie season, but are a pain in the ass to deal with in the locker room, and win nothing when push comes to shove for their entire careers.

[gilthethrill]

You fail to understand the premise of my post...it's not about exact numbers, it's about the inconsistencies of some posters like yourself have in the treatment of certain players...I said the same last season, and I'll say it again this season. If you're going to lambaste one guy, any guy, I just picked Kackert as a comparison, then lambaste them all. I find that Chad Owens is getting a little too much rope from some who are defending his inconsistent play...that's it.

The guy dropped a pass that was right on the numbers with nobody beside him in Edmonton...if that's not a huge mistake, then man you've got low standards. He's made untimely errors, not that any error is timely, in every other game also. One thing that a team who wants to win cannot do is give away possession after their defence has stopped the other team's offence....these special teams turnovers are momentum killers and one could say Owens is guilty of these type of turnovers for the last 3 weeks. Last week's happened late in the 4th quarter and cost the Argos the lead. Thankfully for Owens, the team and the fans, Ray and the offence bailed him out...but you can't keep giving leads away in the 4th quarter and expect to be a winning team, let alone, a Grey Cup contender.


In fairness to Owens, who seems to becoming the Argos whipping boy all of a sudden, the pass he dropped in Edmonton was tipped, so there was a defender in the area...I think Owens also helped bail himself out WedNesday night by catching a TD.

[AngeloV]

Owens was smart enough to know that a trip to an NFL training camp which could have seen him possibly cut or put on a practice roster would not have helped his bargaining power. We've seen many guys sign with the NFL to only come back to the CFL and be half the player they were, especially if they had little game action during their stay in the NFL.

He would never make it as an every down receiver in the NFL, but was pretty much guaranteed the position by Barker, or for all we know, he might have taken the Jets offer. You don't guarantee any players any starting position if it prevents you (the GM) from bringing in possible improvements in that position.

Please enlighten us more on his contractual conversation with Barker. I had no idea that you were allowed to sit in on these talks. Do you even believe yourself sometimes? Thank God we have 1 good poster named gillthethrill.

[KCargosfan]

Owens was smart enough to know that a trip to an NFL training camp which could have seen him possibly cut or put on a practice roster would not have helped his bargaining power. We've seen many guys sign with the NFL to only come back to the CFL and be half the player they were, especially if they had little game action during their stay in the NFL.

He would never make it as an every down receiver in the NFL, but was pretty much guaranteed the position by Barker, or for all we know, he might have taken the Jets offer. You don't guarantee any players any starting position if it prevents you (the GM) from bringing in possible improvements in that position.


And you know all of this how?

[Gill The Thrill]

Please enlighten us more on his contractual conversation with Barker. I had no idea that you were allowed to sit in on these talks. Do you even believe yourself sometimes? Thank God we have 1 good poster named gillthethrill.

Too bad your intuition is as bad as your impression of Perry Mason on these boards..First of all, they gave Owens a generous contract which tells you they expected him to contribute as an every down receiver, 2nd of all they did not bring in enough competition because of this. For crying out loud, they invited Todd Lowber back to training camp in 2011 to compete for a WR spot. This was the same guy they cut 2 years earlier and had really played no meaningful football since, if that does not speak volumes about Barker just bringing in receivers to fill the numbers at camp, then what will.

Another receiver brought in by Barker was another league castoff in Prechae (alligator arms) Rodriguez. How's that for trying to improve the receiver position.

As for trying to break my balls with your last sentence...I don't know, maybe your trying to win a contest of who could insult me with Argolio...flame away...go ahead...I don't care.

At least other people who may disagree with a posting don't resort to such immaturity. They may say they're dissapointed or don't agree, but they don't throw in snide comments like "I can't believe some of the people who post here," or worse bring up an absolutely different topic that has nothing to do with a thread such as the comment on the Jason Barnes thread.

Funny that you want the Argos to be more popular in the city, but don't want anybody posting on "your board" unless they agree with you...hmmm, that does not sound very logical to me, nor conducive to a healthy debate that generates more interest in the team.

[AngeloV]

Too bad your intuition is as bad as your impression of Perry Mason on these boards..First of all, they gave Owens a generous contract which tells you they expected him to contribute as an every down receiver, 2nd of all they did not bring in enough competition because of this. For crying out loud, they invited Todd Lowber back to training camp in 2011 to compete for a WR spot. This was the same guy they cut 2 years earlier and had really played no meaningful football since, if that does not speak volumes about Barker just bringing in receivers to fill the numbers at camp, then what will.

Another receiver brought in by Barker was another league castoff in Prechae (alligator arms) Rodriguez. How's that for trying to improve the receiver position.

As for trying to break my balls with your last sentence...I don't know, maybe your trying to win a contest of who could insult me with Argolio...flame away...go ahead...I don't care.

At least other people who may disagree with a posting don't resort to such immaturity. They may say they're dissapointed or don't agree, but they don't throw in snide comments like "I can't believe some of the people who post here," or worse bring up an absolutely different topic that has nothing to do with a thread such as the comment on the Jason Barnes thread.

Funny that you want the Argos to be more popular in the city, but don't want anybody posting on "your board" unless they agree with you...hmmm, that does not sound very logical to me, nor conducive to a healthy debate that generates more interest in the team.

Nice spin. Go on bashing all the players you want, and keep making your statements of "truth". I will just be here to counter your comments.

[Gill The Thrill]

Nice spin. Go on bashing all the players you want, and keep making your statements of "truth". I will just be here to counter your comments.You're entitled to your opinion, but don't disentitle others of their opinion by self-righteously claiming yourself more of an authority.

[1argoholic]

I have no issues with bashing guys when they do squat so why don't we talk Watt? I just don't get or see the Owens bashing.

[Gill The Thrill]

I have no issues with bashing guys when they do squat so why don't we talk Watt? I just don't get or see the Owens bashing.

Watt has been talked about in some posts...I'm not sold on him totally, but some people have defended him because of his youth. I kind of relate his moderate success to the success that Rob Johnson had QB'ing for the Bills. Remember Johnson got the vote of support for winning a meaningless final game of the season after Flutie had clinched a playoff spot for the Bills the week before...The Spencer Watt situation reminds me of that because his most memorable day as an Argo was during the last game in 2010 which had no bearing on the standings, when he caught 2 TD passes in Montreal.

Yet people are of the opinion that he can get it done...He does play the wide side of the field and is a good guy on the roster for the ratio because he is a non-import, although when you look at Hamilton's and Saskatchewan's N/I contributions at the Reciever position, then you can understand why some people want to see a bit more out of him...not a bad start though... 10 catches, 83 yards.

As for Owens, I like him and I would not call it bashing, but I've noticed a pattern that I hope is just an season opening blip in the first month of the season and not a habit. Unfortunately even his Wikipedia page is not flattering in referencing his reasons why he was cut in Jacksonville twice, for fumbling and muffing punts. I hope we've seen the last of his fumbles for many weeks.

[AngeloV]

I have no issues with bashing guys when they do squat so why don't we talk Watt? I just don't get or see the Owens bashing.

Why do any of the players need to get bashed? I don't think anyone really has played poorly this season. Look at the standings. 5 teams are tied at 2-2. There is great parity in the league. Why all the panic?

As i have mentioned earlier, some people only seem happy when they are miserable.

[1argoholic]

I don't mean this year as I'm happy with how we are progressing and I realy can't understant the Owens bashing but if your going to ride a guy than how about Watt who is like the invisable man at least on tv.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't mean this year as I'm happy with how we are progressing and I realy can't understant the Owens bashing but if your going to ride a guy than how about Watt who is like the invisable man at least on tv.

Watt had five catches against Calgary and had a huge, clutch catch on the game-winning TD drive last week.

[ArgoGabe22]

As i have mentioned earlier, some people only seem happy when they are miserable.

I don't understand bashing a player on your team period whether the team is doing good or bad. You're going to lose games, have losing seasons and players will make mistakes. The good thing about the CFL teams can go from last place to Grey Cup champs in 2 years, something you won't see with the Leafs, Jays, Raptors. At the end of the day its just a game. I love football, I'll watch CIS games, I watch high-school games (I coach so I'm kind of forced to watch lol) so I'll still watch the Argos even if we brought Lemon back for a third and I would hope we would do well. Even if the Argos are outplayed, I would still enjoy watching the game because I just love football.

Seriously if you're going to watch and just complain every game even after a win, whats the point in watching? As for bashing Watt because he's done squat is a joke. I think Watt has done everything he was asked to do - getting open, catching ball his way, blocking.


I don't mean this year as I'm happy with how we are progressing and I realy can't understant the Owens bashing but if your going to ride a guy than how about Watt who is like the invisable man at least on tv.

That's a good point, its hard to see from a T.V. I would assume the DT to be most invisible player, sometimes all they do is make a hole for the LB but that goes unnoticed every time.