Attendance predictions for Aug 6th

[argos1873]

Ok the attendance for the Home Opener was a paltry 20,000. It was 22,000 for the Blue Bomber game. It was a helluva fun game to be at, even more than the opener, even though it was a Wednesday night. The crowd got really loud near the end of the game, I can only imagine what it will be like when there's more. Do you think we can hit 25,000 for the Civic day holiday against the Grey Cup champions? We have a great team this year, lets get out there and let your friends know that its more fun at an Argos game than any other pro sport in Toronto. We all know that's true, lets try to convince others. Lets slowly work our way up to 35,000 for the Eastern final. And don't forget to wear your Argo gear when you go to the game and be LOUD!!!

[1argoholic]

One would hope the crowds would grow but media types still rip on them. Sportsline tonight had Hebsy saying he doesn't know if crowds will ever get great. His co-host states it's great in there when there's sellouts like the Bills games. What a mellon. Sellouts as in 20,000 free tickets to paper the joint.

[argos1873]

There hasn't been a Bills sellout yet even with papering the seats. These media types are the equivalent of internet trolls.

[Invader]

about 23,816

[DanTheFan]

My guess: 24,391

[argos1873]

As long as it rises, that's all that matters. Most Torontonians don't know what they are missing. As much as people slag the Rogers Centre, its actually a great place to be for a football game. The concourse is full of life, and the people in the stands make more noise than any Jays game.

[Argoscflguy]

Couldn't have said it better Argos1873 people who have never been to a game realy don't know what their missing! The best buck value in the city, most entertaining, great fans,! If the tiger cats can average 21000 we should easily be putting an extra 15000 butts in the seats, considering our population in the gta is 11 times bigger!!!!! I have been trying to sell this great sport of ours to many people over the years, some go and watch a game, some think if it's not nfl its not worth it! When I go out with my family I make sure me and my son is in some sort of Argo gear, I bleed double blue, this is our team,the oldest team in t.o!!!!!!!! And everyone of us on this forum should be doing the same, that's how are team, our league gets noticed! With all the Argo fans out there I still don't see anyone while driving in the gta without a flag on their car!! Come on guys show your team! And be proud of the argonauts! If we don't show our colors who will?

[argos1873]

Couldn't have said it better Argos1873 people who have never been to a game realy don't know what their missing! The best buck value in the city, most entertaining, great fans,! If the tiger cats can average 21000 we should easily be putting an extra 15000 butts in the seats, considering our population in the gta is 11 times bigger!!!!! I have been trying to sell this great sport of ours to many people over the years, some go and watch a game, some think if it's not nfl its not worth it! When I go out with my family I make sure me and my son is in some sort of Argo gear, I bleed double blue, this is our team,the oldest team in t.o!!!!!!!! And everyone of us on this forum should be doing the same, that's how are team, our league gets noticed! With all the Argo fans out there I still don't see anyone while driving in the gta without a flag on their car!! Come on guys show your team! And be proud of the argonauts! If we don't show our colors who will?

I turned my 10 year old son into a fan, well long before this year, and we had a blast at the last game. My son was telling me to cheer more! We need more kids like that! Bring your kids to the games, wear your gear, and don't be shy to yell your lungs out, especially when the other guys have the ball! The stadium was LOUD when Winnipeg had the ball in the last quarter and I know it helped!! Imagine if we had another 10,000?

I wanted to buy season tickets this year, but couldn't really afford it, but I don't care what it costs next year I'm buying them. I want to be there every game!!

[flafson]

I went to 2 games last year and was really surprised at how cool it was at Rogers, that place is just awesome. I don't think you can say anything bad about it, pretty sure it's also the best stadium in the league.
What annoyed me is you don't get the live coverage that you do when you watch the game on TV, so the game look very quiet. The other thing that bothered me last year that we sucked really bad.

Now that we have Rickey Ray i think we can actually look like a decent team and after 4 games even though we are only 2-2 (which is great IMO) we have lots of positive signs to look at.
In my opinion the only way to fill those seats is to win some games, people are tired of seeing all Toronto teams losing in pretty much everything.

Too bad the seats are so expensive, what's the point in selling them for so high while having the place half empty all the time? Cut the price 30-40% and fill those seats.

[Argoscflguy]

Hey argos1873 so true, I think some people don't yell (their lungs out) lol because their shy! I was like that at my first Argos game many years ago! Now I did a total 360, I go nuts! I think that's a bit of the Problem with some argo fans, they care to much what people will think! Who cares be yourself look at the rough rider fans, their crazy , you see old grammas and grandpas going nuts!!!!! Let's all do the same!!!!AAARRGGGOOSSSS!!!! ( I was yelling)! Lol

[Gill The Thrill]

Too bad the seats are so expensive, what's the point in selling them for so high while having the place half empty all the time? Cut the price 30-40% and fill those seats.

I have a problem with the pricing points myself for single game tickets...I find the Argos continually shoot themselves in the foot intentionally once the attendance starts to pick up by increasing ticket prices, despite having delivered a less than par product over the last 2 years. They'll get to the mid 20,000's or even avg 30k as they did in 2005, raise ticket prices even after a losing season...(where talking a 4-14 losing season, not an 8-10 season) and then wonder why 7,000 fans less a game show up the following year. Someone mentioned that the Argos are the best value for sports in the city, but that can't be true as long as the Jays sell tickets in the 500 level and in the 100 and 200 level outfield. Those seats offer MORE casual fans with an affordable option because they are larger sections.

It can't be just myself who feels this way, as the visiting section between the goal lines that is not visible on TV is embarrasingly empty at the start of each game.
The home side between the goal lines is barely half full.

[flafson]

I have a problem with the pricing points myself for single game tickets...I find the Argos continually shoot themselves in the foot intentionally once the attendance starts to pick up by increasing ticket prices, despite having delivered a less than par product over the last 2 years. They'll get to the mid 20,000's or even avg 30k as they did in 2005, raise ticket prices even after a losing season...(where talking a 4-14 losing season, not an 8-10 season) and then wonder why 7,000 fans less a game show up the following year. Someone mentioned that the Argos are the best value for sports in the city, but that can't be true as long as the Jays sell tickets in the 500 level and in the 100 and 200 level outfield. Those seats offer MORE casual fans with an affordable option because they are larger sections.

It can't be just myself who feels this way, as the visiting section between the goal lines that is not visible on TV is embarrasingly empty at the start of each game.
The home side between the goal lines is barely half full.

The thing is you also have ticketmaster fee of around $10 and then you also have an even parking which is like $20 and of course the drive but can't really argue there so an $80 ticket becomes $100 for as you said, below par product.

[AngeloV]

I have a problem with the pricing points myself for single game tickets...I find the Argos continually shoot themselves in the foot intentionally once the attendance starts to pick up by increasing ticket prices, despite having delivered a less than par product over the last 2 years. They'll get to the mid 20,000's or even avg 30k as they did in 2005, raise ticket prices even after a losing season...(where talking a 4-14 losing season, not an 8-10 season) and then wonder why 7,000 fans less a game show up the following year. Someone mentioned that the Argos are the best value for sports in the city, but that can't be true as long as the Jays sell tickets in the 500 level and in the 100 and 200 level outfield. Those seats offer MORE casual fans with an affordable option because they are larger sections.

It can't be just myself who feels this way, as the visiting section between the goal lines that is not visible on TV is embarrasingly empty at the start of each game.
The home side between the goal lines is barely half full.

Maybe because in 2005, they were totally papering the house. Do you really think if they weren't doing that, C&S would have lost their shirts on the team? If they really averaged 25-30k, there is no way they wold be losing money.

[Gill The Thrill]

Maybe because in 2005, they were totally papering the house. Do you really think if they weren't doing that, C&S would have lost their shirts on the team? If they really averaged 25-30k, there is no way they wold be losing money.It depends on how much was spent on advertising...remember McNall and Gretzky lost money in 1991 and they averaged over 30K easily....but yah, C&S did paper the house, and we now see several years later, that all these kids that were given free tickets have not spent a dime as adults to attend an Argos game. This tells you how bad a practice giving away free tickets was.

They also had promotion deals which gave fans cheap ticket deals...The Dominion (Metro) End zone section was very successful and noticeably full. At least fans still paid $10 per ticket...there were also some ridiculous ones that offered $5 seats in the 500 level....This would not be as detrimental if you received money from concessions, as fans who may have got in for as little as $5 would spend money buying food and drink, but with the Argos not getting any of that...those promotional discounts help the owners of the dome, more than the Argos. This is why many fans including myself think the Argos would be much better served with their own 30-35'000 seat stadium.

[Argoscflguy]

It depends on how much was spent on advertising...remember McNall and Gretzky lost money in 1991 and they averaged over 30K easily....but yah, C&S did paper the house, and we now see several years later, that all these kids that were given free tickets have not spent a dime as adults to attend an Argos game. This tells you how bad a practice giving away free tickets was.

They also had promotion deals which gave fans cheap ticket deals...The Dominion (Metro) End zone section was very successful and noticeably full. At least fans still paid $10 per ticket...there were also some ridiculous ones that offered $5 seats in the 500 level....This would not be as detrimental if you received money from concessions, as fans who may have got in for as little as $5 would spend money buying food and drink, but with the Argos not getting any of that...those promotional discounts help the owners of the dome, more than the Argos. This is why many fans including myself think the Argos would be much better served with their own 30-35'000 seat stadium.
I think this is what it comes down to! Is building our own 25000-35000 seat stadium! Look at bmo, who would of thought the place would be the hottest ticket in town? People who go to bump don't all go for the (soccer) they go for the enjoyment of the atmosphere! If this stadium is ever built it will the hottest ticket in the city!!!!!!!

[AngeloV]

It depends on how much was spent on advertising...remember McNall and Gretzky lost money in 1991 and they averaged over 30K easily.....

Keep in mind that 1 player on that team also made more than the entire SMS we now have in place.

[ArgoZ]

The actual "true" attendance has been the same the last 10+ years with the odd spike or drop due to circumstances such as playoff final, etc. Big names like Williams and half time gimmicks didn't work as planned. Everything stays the same except if the teams wins, it increases slightly and if they lose, the opposite. Aside from the hoopla of the new Skydome stadium, it really is crazy that nothing has worked.

I believe the current attendance numbers are accurate and the true paid numbers. It is easy to figure out the attendance yourself which makes you question numbers of the past. If the lower bowl is 32 000 capacity and you minus the 1 500 seats in the blocked off endzone, that leaves about 2 500 in the South endzone and 14 000 on each side. I take the empty seats on the home side and fill them with what I require from the West side. Add the usually sold out endzone which gives me a 16 500. Add 1000 or so for boxes and sideline seats and then there is usually enough left over on the West side (3-5000) to make up the final number being announced recently.

[LLB997]

Wednesday was a great atmosphere. the fans were super loud. And lots and lots of argos jerseys and t shirts. Not alot of casual looking fans ( in generic clothing ) which is good. It looked pretty impressive seeing this mob of people dressed in double blue invading front st. after the game.

Those new t-shirts with the striped sleeves looked sharp. going to have pick one up.

[1argoholic]

Even watching on tv you could tell the crowd was into it and loader than the first game. Argo fans are out there it just a matter of getting them to the dome.

[flafson]

Do they need to pay extra to open the 500 floor? IMO it would make alot of sense for the team to open that floor and sell tickets there super cheap so they get some money for it on one hand and on the other hand, you increase the atmosphere which helps the team on and off the field.

[ArgoRavi]

Do they need to pay extra to open the 500 floor? IMO it would make alot of sense for the team to open that floor and sell tickets there super cheap so they get some money for it on one hand and on the other hand, you increase the atmosphere which helps the team on and off the field.

I am pretty sure that the Argos would have to pay Rogers more to open up that level as security, etc. would be required.

[Will]

Ask me this question after we've finished in Montreal.

[eiben35]

24,250. Hopefully by the end of the season we are getting 25,000 paying fans. That would be a geat start going forward. With this great coaching staff things are finally starting to look up. We just need a new G.M.

[matchuk]

i think we will be close to 25,000, but being a 5pm game on a holiday and not 1pm or even 3pm, do you think that might hamper the numbers?

[ArgoRavi]

24,250. Hopefully by the end of the season we are getting 25,000 paying fans. That would be a geat start going forward. With this great coaching staff things are finally starting to look up. We just need a new G.M.

Why do we need a new GM? He seems to have done a good job with off-season recruiting this year.

[eiben35]

In regards to the G.M. Look at our o-line and Canadian receivers. Spencer Watt is brutal. He has had the oppurtunity to draft Shawn Gore, Akeem Foster, Cory Watson, Nate Coehorn, Marco Iannuzzi just to name a few in the past three years and has settled on Watt and Kuame. does a brutal job in the canadian draft.

[ArgoGabe22]

In regards to the G.M. Look at our o-line and Canadian receivers. Spencer Watt is brutal. He has had the oppurtunity to draft Shawn Gore, Akeem Foster, Cory Watson, Nate Coehorn, Marco Iannuzzi just to name a few in the past three years and has settled on Watt and Kuame. does a brutal job in the canadian draft.

We picked 7th so its impossible for the Argos to draft Coehorn & Iannuzi. Kuome was picked in the third round and look how many other third rounders have fared. Only Phillip Blake stands out and his CFL career is on hold for a long time. We drafted Eppele and Greenwood before Gore and Watson. Eppele has been solid so far and Greenwood may have been the next Don Moen, Mike O'Shea.

The only pick that can be truly compared is Watt over Foster. So far Foster has 30 more yards in his career and Watt is having a better start to this season. Watt is 23, Foster 25. Foster has Lulay and Watt had Lemon so figure it out. (Sorry Watt had Elizondo, Lemon actually threw perfect corners to Watt)

[AngeloV]

We picked 7th so its impossible for the Argos to draft Coehorn & Iannuzi. Kuome was picked in the third round and look how many other third rounders have fared. Only Phillip Blake stands out and his CFL career is on hold for a long time. We drafted Eppele and Greenwood before Gore and Watson. Eppele has been solid so far and Greenwood may have been the next Don Moen, Mike O'Shea.

The only pick that can be truly compared is Watt over Foster. So far Foster has 30 more yards in his career and Watt is having a better start to this season. Watt is 23, Foster 25. Foster has Lulay and Watt had Lemon so figure it out. (Sorry Watt had Elizondo, Lemon actually threw perfect corners to Watt)

Well said ArgoGabe22. I really don't understand the hate on for Watt. These same people that are all over him, will be the first to complain if he goes elsewhere and contributes. I guess some people are only happy in life when there is something to complain about.

I may also add that Watt has never had Geroy Simon to take coverage away form him either.

[paulwoods13]

Will all those who think Watt is not productive please advise how they feel he compares to other wide-side wideouts the Argos have employed in the past? Were you also clamouring for Geoff Townsend to be cut back in 1983?

The position Watt plays is the position that gets the ball either the least or second-least (behind "fullback," a position that basically no longer exists) on every offence in the CFL. No team is going to put their best receiver on the wide side outside. I believe Watt has caught everything thrown to him this year and has been open deep a couple of times, once negated by a penalty and once negated by a poor throw.

Fact: some animals eat their young.

[Gill The Thrill]

Will all those who think Watt is not productive please advise how they feel he compares to other wide-side wideouts the Argos have employed in the past? Were you also clamouring for Geoff Townsend to be cut back in 1983?




Townsend also returned kickoffs and punts in 1983, so he contributed in other ways that made him a little more valuable than Watt is at this present time.

[gilthethrill]

Townsend also returned kickoffs and punts in 1983, so he contributed in other ways that made him a little more valuable than Watt is at this present time.

Rosters were quite a bit smaller back then too Gill, allowing Geoff those opportunities.

[argolio]

Rosters were quite a bit smaller back then too Gill, allowing Geoff those opportunities.Eight players fewer back then I think.

[1argoholic]

Eiban35 I'm glad I'm not the only one who believes Barker has done zero with the Canadian draft. To me he doesn't take it seriously enough. It's not about finding talent that can help out right now but about a crap shoot. There are players contributing all through the league that we passed on.

Today he signs a so called guy on D that has never played football. How do we know he's on D when he doesn't even know anything but touch football in Trinidad for shit sakes.
Riggs got dumped without having a sniff and he was very good in preseason. I guess we're going to run Boyd into the ground with no other options. Well I guess this is why I'm a fan and not a GM. I can only wonder about and hope that Barkers decisions help the team do well.

[tennyis]

I couldn't even talk after the Bombers game I was yelling so much! I don't think I'm going to be able to make it to the BC game though :(

[argotom]

After the great win today, let's hope we can get 25k for this holiday afternoon.

[KCargosfan]

After the great win today, let's hope we can get 25k for this holiday afternoon.

Does everyone have work off that day in Canada?

[Will]

Townsend also returned kickoffs and punts in 1983, so he contributed in other ways that made him a little more valuable than Watt is at this present time.

Townsend also had the (perhaps) misfortune that his counterpart at WR was rolling off 100 yard games on a whim that season.

[ArgoRavi]

Does everyone have work off that day in Canada?

Most provinces, I believe, have that day off. I know that Quebec doesn't but Ontario does.

[AngeloV]

Will all those who think Watt is not productive please advise how they feel he compares to other wide-side wideouts the Argos have employed in the past? Were you also clamouring for Geoff Townsend to be cut back in 1983?



Although I know what you are saying here, I don't believe that in 1983, teams really played with a short side and wide side alignment on offence the way they do today. IIRC, Greer lined up as the wr on the right side of the formation 90% of the time back then. I think that the wide side and short side alignments started in the late 90's by most teams.

[argofandave]

Does everyone have work off that day in Canada?
I don't think it's a statutory holiday in Ontario. I had to work it in the late 1980's and early 1990's. I think all the stores will be open that day. Some refer to it as Civic Day and others as Simcoe Day. I remember reading a few years ago when the Family Day holiday in February became statutory in Ontario, some people were upset because they lost their Civic/Simcoe Day holiday in August and had it replaced by Family Day in February.

[Argos]

It's a day off, but also a weekend where much of suburban Toronto takes off to a cottage. Combined with an early start that means it'll be hotter, I'll guess 22K but with a lot of no shows. It seems to me summer long weekends are a tough sell (Labour Day being different as more people stay close to home with school starting).

[Argos]

i think we will be close to 25,000, but being a 5pm game on a holiday and not 1pm or even 3pm, do you think that might hamper the numbers?

I think 5 is better than 1 or 3, it's been a hot summer and at least it'll start to cool off late in the game. Personally, I think 7 would be better. It's not like the next day's a school day or anything, and it'd be cooler. Then again, I've never enjoyed afternoon sports at all, to the point I often skip those games, so I'm biased! :)

[Argocister]

Wonder if we could get to 27,000 in attendance ...... With it being family day, and a long weekend, and the Argos are tied for first...... Good combo
:D

[1argoholic]

Not sure if BC has ever drawn very good crowds in TO. I know there won't be any Lion fans there. Not many travel. I was surprised to see some in Calgary. I hope we get 25,000.

[Will]

I suspect we'll see a couple of Lion fans come out of the woodwork as they are the defending Grey Cup champions.

[ArgoZ]

I bought prime 200 level seats from someone going away that weekend. Summer holiday weekends unfortunately are a great excuse to miss a game. There is only so many long weekends for us to enjoy.

[1argoholic]

I never bought the excuse of summer weekends. While having seasons my schedule revolved around the Argos. Even living out west we plan everything around CFL tv games which pretty much means we do squat other than shopping for grub. My wife and I just love CFL ball. We have friends that have talked about taking us out on there nice boat but don't even ask because of out CFL passion. My view might change if we are lucky enough to get waterfront in the Peterborough area when we move.

[AngeloV]

I never bought the excuse of summer weekends. While having seasons my schedule revolved around the Argos. Even living out west we plan everything around CFL tv games which pretty much means we do squat other than shopping for grub. My wife and I just love CFL ball. We have friends that have talked about taking us out on there nice boat but don't even ask because of out CFL passion. My view might change if we are lucky enough to get waterfront in the Peterborough area when we move.

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, there are only so many diehards in any sport. The teams (and leagues) that are successful, make it on hooking the casual fan more often.

[Argos]

I never bought the excuse of summer weekends. While having seasons my schedule revolved around the Argos. Even living out west we plan everything around CFL tv games which pretty much means we do squat other than shopping for grub. My wife and I just love CFL ball. We have friends that have talked about taking us out on there nice boat but don't even ask because of out CFL passion. My view might change if we are lucky enough to get waterfront in the Peterborough area when we move.

I'm like you. But there's lots that aren't like us, unfortunately. I agree, if you have a sold out building and a large, passionate fan base, it's not a factor. But.....unfortunately, that's not the case here.

[flafson]

Only way to improve that is start winning. Hopefully we will be able to do that this year.

[1argoholic]

Toronto is a hard nut to crack. When I started going to games in the early 70's the Argos were toast of the town and the thing you did in summer before hockey season started. That held true with good support until Skydome when the Argos made there biggest mistake. As I've mentioned before instead of giving very long time season ticket holders a shot to purchase their same type of seats at Skydome they opened it up for everyone. That one move lost so many fans. These were the oldtime fans who had primo seats for decades. The type of folks who's kids all followed the team. Then they thought that just because there was a big new stadium it would be filled. They've never been able to recover and frankly their marketing has pretty much always sucked. If companies like McDonalds,Pepsi and Coke still have to advertise in a big way don't you think the Argonauts would have to? These are companies known by everyone.

[AngeloV]

Toronto is a hard nut to crack. When I started going to games in the early 70's the Argos were toast of the town and the thing you did in summer before hockey season started. That held true with good support until Skydome when the Argos made there biggest mistake. As I've mentioned before instead of giving very long time season ticket holders a shot to purchase their same type of seats at Skydome they opened it up for everyone. That one move lost so many fans. These were the oldtime fans who had primo seats for decades. The type of folks who's kids all followed the team. Then they thought that just because there was a big new stadium it would be filled. They've never been able to recover and frankly their marketing has pretty much always sucked. If companies like McDonalds,Pepsi and Coke still have to advertise in a big way don't you think the Argonauts would have to? These are companies known by everyone.

I agree that was a huge mistake, but truth be told, their attendance at CNE was not great at the end. The last 2 years their, they went to the Grey Cup in '87 and went 14-4 in '88 and still couldn't draw 24k. It's almost as if after the 31 year drought, when they won the cup in '83, people stopped coming out.

[gilthethrill]

I agree that was a huge mistake, but truth be told, their attendance at CNE was not great at the end. The last 2 years their, they went to the Grey Cup in '87 and went 14-4 in '88 and still couldn't draw 24k. It's almost as if after the 31 year drought, when they won the cup in '83, people stopped coming out.

I was at the 83 East Final, it was sold out. I went to the 2nd game of the total point Eastern Final in 84 & had a sinking feeling in my stomach as I could not help but notice all the empty seats. I can't recall the attendance in 84, but it was far from sold out.

[Will]

I was at the 83 East Final, it was sold out. I went to the 2nd game of the total point Eastern Final in 84 & had a sinking feeling in my stomach as I could not help but notice all the empty seats. I can't recall the attendance in 84, but it was far from sold out.

You are thinking of 1986 Gil; the '84 Eastern Final drew 48,000 I believe.

[gilthethrill]

You are thinking of 1986 Gil; the '84 Eastern Final drew 48,000 I believe.

Perhaps you are right...I do recall the game I am speaking of was Joes Barnes last in an Argo uniform...he was unhappy about Obie's offence....something about not being a robot.....

PW, AV Ravi, AT or any other Argo fan vet, please feel free to join in....

[Will]

Barnes did leave the Argos after the 1984 season. The Argos lost that game 14-13 in OT to Hamilton.

[gilthethrill]

Barnes did leave the Argos after the 1984 season. The Argos lost that game 14-13 in OT to Hamilton.

Yes, a rainsoaked game, I think Hamilton db Felix Wright had 4 pics...but as AV pointed out, fans stopped coming out after the 83 season.

[AngeloV]

Barnes did leave the Argos after the 1984 season. The Argos lost that game 14-13 in OT to Hamilton.

A horrible game all around. IIRC, Holloway had a TD drive on the first series of that game, and was injured later in the first quarter. Joe Barnes worst performance ever as an Argo. Add some very questionable coaching decisions by Obie, and it was a horrible day--the one that comes to mind was last play of regulation time, in a tie game, rather than let Ilesic try a 48 yard field goal, he elected to try and punt for a single. Argos should have won the cup that year as well.

[paulwoods13]

A horrible game all around. IIRC, Holloway had a TD drive on the first series of that game, and was injured later in the first quarter. Joe Barnes worst performance ever as an Argo. Add some very questionable coaching decisions by Obie, and it was a horrible day--the one that comes to mind was last play of regulation time, in a tie game, rather than let Ilesic try a 48 yard field goal, he elected to try and punt for a single. Argos should have won the cup that year as well.

Yeah, that team was probably as good, certainly close to as good, as the 1983 Argos. They had lost Minter, Mohr and a few others, but most of the pieces were still there. The decision to try for the punt single drove me nuts. I got home that day and I was so mad I slammed the front door hard enough to break the window.

[ArgoRavi]

Yeah, that team was probably as good, certainly close to as good, as the 1983 Argos. They had lost Minter, Mohr and a few others, but most of the pieces were still there. The decision to try for the punt single drove me nuts. I got home that day and I was so mad I slammed the front door hard enough to break the window.

That decision still makes me angry. The Argos were a far superior team to the Ticats and there is no way that they should have lost that game. BTW, as argofan87 stated, there were 48k at that '84 EF. It was in '86 for the second game of the EF that the Argos/Ticats drew a little over 32k. There had been 54k for the '83 EF so there was a significant drop-off in playoff attendance in a very short time.

[ArgoRavi]

Perhaps you are right...I do recall the game I am speaking of was Joes Barnes last in an Argo uniform...he was unhappy about Obie's offence....something about not being a robot.....

PW, AV Ravi, AT or any other Argo fan vet, please feel free to join in....

It is amazing that Barnes' career would only last one more season. The Argos traded him to Calgary where he received a pretty nice salary but the Stamps were awful with declining attendance in the low teens. I believe that he only won one game in half of a season or so with the Stamps before he was sent to Montreal where he would play out that '85 season which would also mark the end of his career. For Barnes, he would have been better off sucking it up and staying in Toronto. His career may have lasted at least another couple of seasons if he had done that.

[gilthethrill]

I am surprised there were 48k in the Ex that afternoon in 84, it just seemed emptier, but I believe you guys...also impressed about the Ilesic punt single attempt, I don't recall that....must admit, I would have loved to see PW slam the door that afternoon....

[argolio]

I am surprised there were 48k in the Ex that afternoon in 84, it just seemed emptier, but I believe you guys...also impressed about the Ilesic punt single attempt, I don't recall that....must admit, I would have loved to see PW slam the door that afternoon....1984 was the last Exhibition Stadium year where the Argos drew at least 30K every home game.

[AaronInToronto]

23,543. Weather is simply too nice this weekend to draw a massive crowd. Walk-ups will be minimal.

[flafson]

I say 28,000

[jerrym]

With the Olympics on and many away on vacation, I will predict a cautiously optimistic 23,000. If the Argos continue to play exciting football while winning a fair share of the games I see a spike in attendance in September.

[Fungi]

From what I've heard about the infinitesimally small marketing strategy from the Argo head office, I predict Season ticket holder numbers, but less because of the non existent hype. It goes to show. It wasn't Braley. It was all BOB Ackles behind the rise of the Lions.

[ArgoRavi]

From what I've heard about the infinitesimally small marketing strategy from the Argo head office, I predict Season ticket holder numbers, but less because of the non existent hype. It goes to show. It wasn't Braley. It was all BOB Ackles behind the rise of the Lions.

This is only Rudge's first year as head honcho. Give him some time. Even when Ackles returned to B.C. from the NFL in '02, the Lions were getting crowds of 15k that year. It took until Ackles' second year before they started showing signs of life.

[gilthethrill]

This is only Rudge's first year as head honcho. Give him some time. Even when Ackles returned to B.C. from the NFL in '02, the Lions were getting crowds of 15k that year. It took until Ackles' second year before they started showing signs of life.

Did Bob Ackles have the stadium issues that the Argos face? The negative/lack of media coverage (CFL being minor league)? No. I agree, give Rudge a bit of time.

[flafson]

What stadium issues do we have? Sure it's more of a Jays stadium than Argos but it's a great, big, with moveable roof kind of stadium. I think even the dude coming over from England would agree that even in the Premier League most people would love to have such a stadium.

[gilthethrill]

What stadium issues do we have? Sure it's more of a Jays stadium than Argos but it's a great, big, with moveable roof kind of stadium. I think even the dude coming over from England would agree that even in the Premier League most people would love to have such a stadium.

I always thought the Argos don't make $$ off concessions, parking etc. I am not sure how much they pay in rent. Also, the schedule is an issue due to the Jays, which I understand & recently TFC has somehow managed to become a more valuable tenant.

I have no issues with RC, it is a fine facility, but the Argos can't generate revenue is all I was trying to state.

[Argocister]

Quote Originally Posted by flafson
What stadium issues do we have? Sure it's more of a Jays stadium than Argos but it's a great, big, with moveable roof kind of stadium. I think even the dude coming over from England would agree that even in the Premier League most people would love to have such a stadium.

Besides the loss of revenue, and the scheduling issues, being a second class citizen in the skydome doesn't contribute to the atmosphere. There aren't any flags, or Argo banners anywhere to say its Argos home field. There has been a few times when I bring people for the game, and they ask..." Are you sure the games here today? everything is Blue Jays." .... including the popcorn and beer. Tourists and visitors will like the stadium, ..... I do too, especially with the bad weather..... but experiencing a game at the skydome and then experiencing one at Ivor Wynn..... the Ticats have a more consistent fun fan experience. I have to say though there have been times lately when the Argos experience is improving ......hopefully with more bodies in the stadium that are willing to participate will help as well.


I always thought the Argos don't make $$ off concessions, parking etc. I am not sure how much they pay in rent. Also, the schedule is an issue due to the Jays, which I understand & recently TFC has somehow managed to become a more valuable tenant.

I have no issues with RC, it is a fine facility, but the Argos can't generate revenue is all I was trying to state.

TFC..... I've met a few who love to go to the TFC games... their response is...." Soccer? not a fan but love the party in the stands."
I wonder if they ever move to the skydome, if their fan base will increase accordingly.

[Argos4Life]

Being 3-2 and in a tie for 1'st has to help attendance. Also the return of the popular Byron Parker may get a few more people out. Add to that the BC Lions are a very good football team and a great measuring stick for the Argos.

I'll stick my neck out and say 25,000 for this one.

Let's go Argos!!

[Hollaway]

Maybe a stupid guess here, but since it's a national holiday and Jays have the off day, it would be nice to get 30,000.

[Gill The Thrill]

As long as it rises, that's all that matters. Most Torontonians don't know what they are missing. As much as people slag the Rogers Centre, its actually a great place to be for a football game. The concourse is full of life, and the people in the stands make more noise than any Jays game.

As much as the Argos have a better team this year, let's not confuse this with the Skydome being the football stadium that it isn't. There are seats in the 200 level that make you feel like you're watching the game from Lake Ontario....it's not because of the team, but the bowl shaped seating of a multi-purpose stadium. I was at Molson Stadium in Montreal, and while that may not have the comforts of a shopping mall like the dome does, it is a great football stadium...which has the intimacy of Ivor Wynne, but is much newer and refurbished. The dome may have wide concourses, but that's because it's a 50,000 multi purpose facility which is less than half full for an Argo game...With all do respect, I prefer the atmosphere to be at the seats cheering the action on the field and not at the concourse.

[1argoholic]

Once again I'm soon to be 50 and am old enough to remember some miserable, cold soaking we horrible games at CNE. Anyone who wants to go back to that is crazy. Two games will never leave my mind. My first Grey Cup in 82 where I sat in my first season tic seats in the Scotia Bank cheap seats in the endzone. It was a gong show not only for the cold pouring rain at the end of Nov but people wizzing in the stands, mop buckets because the cans were full. It was a mess. Then during a summer game against Ottawa a few years before that I was on the newer Blue Jays side and in rained so hard that my brand new blue roots earth shoes turned my white socks blue.hahaha. The rain was flowing down the stairs and into the concoarse at about two inches in depth. You were'nt exactly close to the field at CNE either.
So if we ever get a new stadium they better have it open over the field but covered oer the fans.

[Gill The Thrill]

A horrible game all around. IIRC, Holloway had a TD drive on the first series of that game, and was injured later in the first quarter. Joe Barnes worst performance ever as an Argo. Add some very questionable coaching decisions by Obie, and it was a horrible day--the one that comes to mind was last play of regulation time, in a tie game, rather than let Ilesic try a 48 yard field goal, he elected to try and punt for a single. Argos should have won the cup that year as well.

Hank "the Shank" was a terrible place kicker....he also missed a 30 yard FG in OT if I remember correctly. It may not have been Obie's best decision, but it was only a tough decision because Ilesic could not kick FG's off a tee for shit...he was always inconsistent...even in the Grey Cup in 1983, his place kicks were shaky.

Combine his poor kicking that day with Bernie Rouff making FG's from 54 and 56 yards, and you know why the Ticats won that Eastern Final in 1984. The Argos were a good club in 1984, but a club that was already showing signs of falling apart after the midway point of the season. They started better in 84, than they did in 83 and and 82, as they were 7-2, but only went 2-4-1 in their remaining 7 games to finish 9-6-1. They backed into 1st place in the east because the other teams were below 500. Hamilton and Montreal were 6-9-1 while Ottawa was dreadful at 4-12 and at the end of the successful George Brancato era which saw them have their last great teams of the late 70's.

3 of those 4 Argo losses in that second half of the season were at home to Calgary, Saskatchewan and Hamilton and all of them by less than a TD...I believe they were respectively 28-24, 19-15, and 25-20. I believe the Ticats also started 1-8 that season, which means that they were 5-1-1 in their last seven games or something close to that. The Argos were below .500 at home that season as they had also lost home games to BC and Montreal earlier in the season. The only home wins in 1984 were against Ottawa, Winnipeg and Edmonton...the only impressive win was against a good Bombers team late that year, 31-19.

[flafson]

I understand what you guys are saying about the stadium being all Blue Jays but the truth is, Rogers owns the stadium and the Blue Jays, they obviously have the Jays at heart. I'm sure the reason why there aren't more Argos banners during a game is due to the Argos not spending the money to get it done rather RC not allowing it. That is something that hopefully could change if we win more games and get more bodies into the stadium, don't really see any other way of solving that.

[Argos]

I agree the sight lines are bad. The 100 level is brutal IMO. No way to get the height needed to get perspectives of yard lines, I feel totally lost there. The 200 is better, but near midfield, you're still very removed. The 500s would be immensely better IMO, but they don't sell them. When I first moved here, I resisted getting season tickets as the only view I cared for was the 500 level.

Throw in uncomfortable, narrow seats (worse than most arenas/stadiums), ridiculous concession prices, and the dome unfortunately ranks near the bottom of football stadiums I've been to (which is quite a few across the continent). I'd much rather have something along the Ivor Wynne lines.

[argos1873]

Oh well its game time, no excuses! Lets see what the attendance is. Here's hoping for 25,000!! Let's build from there!! Oh ya and ARRRRRGGGGGGOOOOOOSSSSSS!!!!!!

[1argoholic]

All those blue empty seats aren't making enough noise. TO boy Foster scores a td for his family who were all in town for his grandmothers funeral. I don't know what they need to do to get butts in the seats.

[ArgoGabe22]

Stuck in the US, listening to 1050 online. ESPN 3 is not working, how's the attendence looking?

[1argoholic]

Attendance looks low on tv.
Article on the TSN site says, generously announced gathering of 22,841. Horrible. Plus a game like this does SQUAT to fill all of those blue seats. Honestly it's very sad to turn on the tv and see that never mind being one of the few in TO that actually give a flaming crap.

[DanTheFan]

TSN lists 22,841: http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=402508

[flafson]

Just came back, the home side seemed mostly full. The away side was almost empty.

[1argoholic]

On tv the home side looked like tons of blue seats.

[Will]

On tv the home side looked like tons of blue seats.

The home side of the 100 level looked full.

[1argoholic]

Well what was all of that blue plastic glaring at the camera panned back and forth. This is stupid already. This has been going on for over 20 years. I don't know what the hell this team has to try.

[ArgoRavi]

Well what was all of that blue plastic glaring at the camera panned back and forth. This is stupid already. This has been going on for over 20 years. I don't know what the hell this team has to try.

Just hang tight until November as all of the seats will be filled then.

[1argoholic]

It's just so hard to watch games at home especially when it's on Vancouver Island.

[Fungi]

Well what was all of that blue plastic glaring at the camera panned back and forth. This is stupid already. This has been going on for over 20 years. I don't know what the hell this team has to try.
They have to win games first.
I thought that was an entertaining game
They need more than high school marketing.

Don't forget what they just had the 3-4 yrs. Especially the 'very challenged OC' we had last year. I have quite a few more nicknames for him, but thats just for me.

[Gill The Thrill]

I agree the sight lines are bad. The 100 level is brutal IMO. No way to get the height needed to get perspectives of yard lines, I feel totally lost there. The 200 is better, but near midfield, you're still very removed. The 500s would be immensely better IMO, but they don't sell them. When I first moved here, I resisted getting season tickets as the only view I cared for was the 500 level.

Throw in uncomfortable, narrow seats (worse than most arenas/stadiums), ridiculous concession prices, and the dome unfortunately ranks near the bottom of football stadiums I've been to (which is quite a few across the continent). I'd much rather have something along the Ivor Wynne lines.

I agree with most, if not all that you've written here...the true fans would come out in a great outdoor setting similar to Hamilton and Montreal, and the casual fan would even be enthralled to experience a natural football atmosphere compared to the antiseptic feel of the Skydome. (I refuse to call it the Rogers Centre..it's a shitty name)

The best 100 level seats for seeing the yard markers are in fact the endzone bleachers because they are higher up from the ground....that section of seats has been improved since they removed the tight seats that used to have no leg room there.

Of course they'll be full for the Grey Cup game....as that may be the only playoff game played at the dome this season.

[LLB997]

A few observations from being at the game. I thought the turnout was decent overall for a long weekend.i sat in the visiting side 100's and even though they may not look great on TV , the west side seems pretty full sitting within it. Lots of Orange shirts and hats mixed in with Argo fans which made for great comments and fun jabs . sec. 134 seems to have something going on with Argo fans, it seemed more alive than the other sections but i thought my side was pretty good and you east siders sounded pretty loud too. The beer garden outside was packed, beer was cheap, this is what everyone here is talking about. kudos to the Argos for putting on a decent pre game party. And lastly in regards to the comment about the Argos investing in signage and banners, whats the point, last home game (peg) i noticed the Grey Cup banners were all mixed up in their order. The skydome people can't even get that right. Very disrespectuful to the Boatmen IMO.

[Gill The Thrill]

A few observations from being at the game. I thought the turnout was decent overall for a long weekend.i sat in the visiting side 100's and even though they may not look great on TV , the west side seems pretty full sitting within it. Lots of Orange shirts and hats mixed in with Argo fans which made for great comments and fun jabs . sec. 134 seems to have something going on with Argo fans, it seemed more alive than the other sections but i thought my side was pretty good and you east siders sounded pretty loud too. The beer garden outside was packed, beer was cheap, this is what everyone here is talking about. kudos to the Argos for putting on a decent pre game party. And lastly in regards to the comment about the Argos investing in signage and banners, whats the point, last home game (peg) i noticed the Grey Cup banners were all mixed up in their order. The skydome people can't even get that right. Very disrespectuful to the Boatmen IMO.

I thought it was a true 22k. The visiting side was as full as the home side in the 100 level, and there were games last year that saw most of the visiting side completely empty...empty to the point of where fans at the opposite side could of counted fans between the 15 yard lines. I was at a game last season vs Winnipeg where I noticed entire sections of fans from the endzone moving into the visiting side by the second half...that's how empty it was.

I don't know what clown did the write up on the game at TSN.ca, but it had a Toronto Star/Rogers slant to it when it came to sarcasm...From the "generously announced 22,841" to the "defensive shutout by Byron Parker and Lin-J Shell" (as if they run the BC defence, and the DL and LB's had nothing to do with getting to Ray all night) to the "contest affectionately dubbed the Braley Bowl". But then again, I noticed that TSN.ca get their stories, even CFL write ups from AP...You think TSN.ca would at least get their own writers to write about events that they cover, so that they could protect their properties....you'd never see the NFL or MLB allow their host broadcaster to publish what imo could be perceived as sarcastic comments about their events questioning even how many even attended.

[argolio]

I thought this crowd was slightly larger than either of the first two home games. 22K sounds legitimate.

[flafson]

I honestly don't know how they came up with that number, i've been to a couple of games last season when it was 23k and 25k and it seemed like ALOT more people this time. It's possible though that last couple of times there was a bigger away crowed which even things out, not sure.

[LLB997]

I thought it was a true 22k. The visiting side was as full as the home side in the 100 level, and there were games last year that saw most of the visiting side completely empty...empty to the point of where fans at the opposite side could of counted fans between the 15 yard lines. I was at a game last season vs Winnipeg where I noticed entire sections of fans from the endzone moving into the visiting side by the second half...that's how empty it was.

I don't know what clown did the write up on the game at TSN.ca, but it had a Toronto Star/Rogers slant to it when it came to sarcasm...From the "generously announced 22,841" to the "defensive shutout by Byron Parker and Lin-J Shell" (as if they run the BC defence, and the DL and LB's had nothing to do with getting to Ray all night) to the "contest affectionately dubbed the Braley Bowl". But then again, I noticed that TSN.ca get their stories, even CFL write ups from AP...You think TSN.ca would at least get their own writers to write about events that they cover, so that they could protect their properties....you'd never see the NFL or MLB allow their host broadcaster to publish what imo could be perceived as sarcastic comments about their events questioning even how many even attended.


Gill, don't even get me started with TSN.ca. Don't even think of posting anything like what you just typed on their comments section. The TSN.ca moderators are the thought police. I understand moderating abuse but if you have any honest comment or thought that is not completely vanilla then it is not likely to see the light of dayon any CFL article. Not sure who the mods there are but i am assuming alot are no fun league orphans because they have no problem putting through the " when's real football start?" garbage but you never see even 1 neg comment on the NFL articles. (Not that i would ever post anything neg. about the NFL :D)

[1argoholic]

I agree with that TSN.ca article. Most likely a Rider or Bomber fan writing it. Any shot at TO and they're happy to do it sports writer or not.

[Gill The Thrill]

Gill, don't even get me started with TSN.ca. Don't even think of posting anything like what you just typed on their comments section. The TSN.ca moderators are the thought police. I understand moderating abuse but if you have any honest comment or thought that is not completely vanilla then it is not likely to see the light of dayon any CFL article. Not sure who the mods there are but i am assuming alot are no fun league orphans because they have no problem putting through the " when's real football start?" garbage but you never see even 1 neg comment on the NFL articles. (Not that i would ever post anything neg. about the NFL :D)

TSN.ca has been vanilla since TSN was bought by ESPN and changed their entire design to look like an ESPN.com replica.

I have not posted on there because of the reasons you mentioned. I noticed all that when ESPN got in on TSN ownership...I know that they may not own all of it, as Bell has some control. I admit I don't know what percentage each owns off-hand.

I just know that when TSN changed their website and logo to ESPN colours and graphics, they got rid of the great response board that they used to have with most stories... graphically it looked like typewriter print red lettering on white paper and did not require a stupid password. It also allowed posters to not just title their comments, but to identify where they were from. It used to make for great banter, when for example Willy from St.John's NFLD would just write..."trade Sundin, afraid of a corner..." I'd be peeing my pants ROFL reading some of those type of comments...The Sask and Winnipeg insults would also be famous when it came to CFL stories...great stuff.

[1argoholic]

Goes for TSN tv as well. I'm sick of all the stories about US athletes who live on to play even though they had an arm chopped off while on drugs at their parents funeral after their car broke down and they were shot in the head but they came though and won gold and now they're acting in Hollywood. The ESPN 360 crap.

[Deerkeeper]

I thought the crowd was a bit larger than announced. The Lions side of the field looked a little fuller than I have seen it in the past. I wanted to check out the view from my Grey Cup seat so I ended up getting a seat two seats over from it in Sec 113 Row 8. It's the first time I have sat down that low and I can see why those seats are crap, but sitting over towards the south end zone does give you better sight lines than if your more in centre field. Not great seats, but you can see the game with minimal obstructions and will be just fine for the Cup. The nice thing about it is that it is right on the rail, so there is no one in front.

Of note, there were a couple of family groups sitting around me with several kids in the preteen to early teen age group and I was impressed with their knowledge of the game. They knew the players and who to yell at and when and were general interested in what was going on. There's the future and it looks good.

[argolio]

Of note, there were a couple of family groups sitting around me with several kids in the preteen to early teen age group and I was impressed with their knowledge of the game. They knew the players and who to yell at and when and were general interested in what was going on. There's the future and it looks good.Nice comment Deerkeeper.