How many touches should everyone be getting?

[ArgoRavi]

With all of the complaints about our top-ranked offence on here, I was wondering just how much offensive output should be expected for each of our offensive players. In other words, how many touches should each offensive player be getting so that all fans will be satisfied? Here is what I think might keep everyone happy:

Cory Boyd - 20 carries per game plus five receptions
Chad Kackert - 10 carries per game plus two receptions
Jason Barnes - 7 receptions per game
Andre Durie - 7 receptions plus three carries per game
Chad Owens - 5 receptions per game plus one carry
Spencer Watt - 5 receptions per game
Dontrelle Inman - 5 receptions per game
Jeff Johnson - 3 touches per game
Mike Bradwell - 2 receptions per game

I believe that I have 75 touches required among this list to keep everyone happy. Would this be satisfactory to everyone? Would these numbers eliminate all of the trade and release talk and dissatisfaction with personnel?

[1argoholic]

Well for starters Watt is suppoed to be a burner so lets get him the ball in different ways and see if he can run like hell much like Williams in Hamilton.

[bluto]

i could stand to be touched a bit more frequently... wait, what?

sewiouswy though, i think that Ravi might be yanking our chains a bit here... Ravster is calling for 75 offensive playcalls to make the abovementioned distribution happen...

the Argos lead the league in T.O.P. and plays from scrimmage (which we all know since we read my post about stats through week 4 (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?879-Fun-stats-after-4-weeks)), but have had 53, 67, 62 and 62 plays in each of their games.

i'm just taking a stab at reading between the lines here, but i think that what our dear forum friend Ravi is saying is that you couldn't possibly please some of these forum posters who may have expectations that simply aren't realistic...

[1argoholic]

To be honest I didn't read his whole post. I just want to see if Watt has what it takes because I'm not sure right now.

[argonaut11xx]

i dont care if the Argo's signed some ham-m-egger named hymie finklestein...gave him every touch...WHO CARES...

lets just WIN...

as fans do you really care who wins it for our TEAM?...

[jerrym]

I don't think you can satisfy all the backs and receivers. Nearly everyone wants the ball more. Furthermore, although a game plan is important, it must be adjustable enough to take what the opposition gives you. This will vary from team to team based on their team members skills, the defence they play, and the adjustments they make to how you are playing the game. Therefore, even within a game the plan may adjust depending on how the opposition responds and on who gets injured on both teams.

[1argoholic]

I wonder what Greg Mohns would have thought but he's DEAD!!!

[OV Argo]

You should all just shut up and accept whatever this offence and team does - football experts are running this team and they will do what they see fit to just win - however many touches for whoever is good enough. The nerve of couch potato football posters on a football forum making know-nothing comments - just watch the games and accept whatever the Argo brain-trust does - no foolish comments or suggestions please.

Would that make you happy Ravi? - or how bout bannin' (credit Turd) all infidel type posters; or maybe just closing the forum - no discussion required?

[Wobbler]

You seem a little sensitive today, OV.

I think Ravi is offering a "reality check" rather than a rebuke to those who are complaining. There's always something to complain about! (Personally, I don't think Inman is getting the ball enough)

It helps to put things in perspective every once in a while. Good post, Ravi.

[bluto]

You seem a little sensitive today, OV.

I think Ravi is offering a "reality check" rather than a rebuke to those who are complaining. There's always something to complain about! (Personally, I don't think Inman is getting the ball enough)

It helps to put things in perspective every once in a while. Good post, Ravi.

+1
(i actually only wanted to post "+1", but the forum requires a 10 character minimum.)

[1argoholic]

Why can't there be fun on this site.

[AngeloV]

Why can't there be fun on this site.

More donuts= More fun. :)


You seem a little sensitive today, OV.

I think Ravi is offering a "reality check" rather than a rebuke to those who are complaining. There's always something to complain about! (Personally, I don't think Inman is getting the ball enough)

It helps to put things in perspective every once in a while. Good post, Ravi.

Yeah, seriously. Of all the people to attack on this forum, Ravi? I have never seen a more polite poster on any sports forum.

[KCargosfan]

You should all just shut up and accept whatever this offence and team does - football experts are running this team and they will do what they see fit to just win - however many touches for whoever is good enough. The nerve of couch potato football posters on a football forum making know-nothing comments - just watch the games and accept whatever the Argo brain-trust does - no foolish comments or suggestions please.

Would that make you happy Ravi? - or how bout bannin' (credit Turd) all infidel type posters; or maybe just closing the forum - no discussion required?

Bad day at the office, OVA?

[argolio]

I'm also very upset with Ravi: his scenario does not account for incomplete passes!

Fire or trade everyone!!!

[OV Argo]

Ravi - my ole pal (we go way back on the various CFL forums; eg. - my first CFL fan forum attended - Total CFL (credit Turd again) = the eternal Argo Optomist (remember that monicker Ravi?); don't dare question or be negative about anything Argos; all is well in Argo land - be it Bart Simpleton or Jimbo Barker or whoever; and Cleo Lemon was a very solid CFL QB too.

Gotta stay positive = Arrrrrrrrrrrgoooooos !!!

[paulwoods13]

Here are season projections for our top six receivers, if all were to continue catching passes at the current pace:

OWENS, C 101 1411
DURIE, A 115 1336
INMAN, D 43 994
BARNES, J 43 691
WATT, S 47 378
WILLIAMS, C 11 281
total for these 6 360 5090

With these six guys alone, RR is on pace to complete 360 passes (20/game) for more than 5,000 yards. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be beyond thrilled if this is how it ended up, especially considering that RR has also completed passes to Boyd, Johnson and Rempel and will likely work Bradwell into the mix at some point.

[AngeloV]

Here are season projections for our top six receivers, if all were to continue catching passes at the current pace:

OWENS, C 101 1411
DURIE, A 115 1336
INMAN, D 43 994
BARNES, J 43 691
WATT, S 47 378
WILLIAMS, C 11 281
total for these 6 360 5090

With these six guys alone, RR is on pace to complete 360 passes (20/game) for more than 5,000 yards. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be beyond thrilled if this is how it ended up, especially considering that RR has also completed passes to Boyd, Johnson and Rempel and will likely work Bradwell into the mix at some point.

C'mon Paul...If he had someone other than Watt at wide side wideout, he'd probably be on pace for 10,000 yards. Can't you see how Watt just brings down the entire offence?

:confused:

[Will]

Assuming this pace holds up, I believe it would be the first time that two Argo receivers have gone over 100 catches in a season.

[paulwoods13]

Assuming this pace holds up, I believe it would be the first time that two Argo receivers have gone over 100 catches in a season.

That would be correct. Only four Argos have ever surpassed 100 catches in a season:

160 Derrell Mitchell 1998
122 Mike Clemons 1997
116 Mike Clemons 1996
113 Terry Greer 1983

[1argoholic]

Boggles the mind in our long storied history that only three guys have caught over 100 passes. Not many 1000 yard runners either.

[Fungi]

This is not the year to be negative. If you have a bad day...do what I do...Get ripped...then post. After Bart and Barker and El i zondo you shouldn't have a problem with our coaching staff.
This sight can be sooo negative.
Don't take anything any one on this sight says seriously. I don't. Because we all want this team to win this year. Crap may spew, but the final result from everyone here is to keep some semblance of fun.
Go Argoooos Go...Right?
Right?

[Midnight Blue]

Boggles the mind in our long storied history that only three guys have caught over 100 passes. Not many 1000 yard runners either.

Ah, not to worry ... seems we've always had great Defences.

In fact, I'm wondering and trying to remember, when was the last time we had a sub-par Defence?
Must've been a while ago. I'm talking over-all season, not just momentary lapses of several games or so. Or perhaps my rose-coloured glasses are tinting the past. Or it might be the beer and whisky/whiskey!
I honestly can't remember....

Cheers !


This is not the year to be negative. If you have a bad day...do what I do...Get ripped...then post. After Bart and Barker and El i zondo you shouldn't have a problem with our coaching staff.
This sight can be sooo negative.
Don't take anything any one on this sight says seriously. I don't. Because we all want this team to win this year. Crap may spew, but the final result from everyone here is to keep some semblance of fun.
Go Argoooos Go...Right?
Right?


That's the spirit !

[Fungi]

That's the spirit !
Thanks Midnight
After a hundred years or more, maybe the light has shone on you to provide this team withe a fight song. Music optional.

[Midnight Blue]

Thanks Midnight
After a hundred years or more, maybe the light has shone on you to provide this team withe a fight song. Music optional.

That's a great idea! Perhaps a challenge for everyone on this board!
Personally, I've never written any songs, but I'm sure there's some good 'ol
Kick-Ass Rock I can probably think of, though original music would be cooler.
I've been too busy to drink and smoke all night during the week lately,
but you never know....

Which makes me wonder, does anyone remember if the Argos had any fight songs
back in the day?

[Will]

Boggles the mind in our long storied history that only three guys have caught over 100 passes. Not many 1000 yard runners either.

It is noteworthy that two of the greatest teams in Argo history--1983 and 1991--didn't feature the run very much. Minter and Clemons were both capable, but the balance was to the passing game back then.

[Nob]

87 - with good reason too. Those years, and the 96 & 97 years, we were rich at the QB and receiver spots. 83 we had Holloway and Barnes throwing to Greer, Tolbert, Pearson and Minter. 91 we had Dunigan and Foggie throwing to Ismail, Williams, DK Smith, Masotti, and Pinball. In 96 an 97 we had Flutie, with Mookie and ...... darn..... I can't remember...... I think Pinball was stil racking up the catches, but Flutie made everyone great.

I am excited about the team we have now because Ray gives us the best QB play since Flutie.

All the other names that I've mentioned hav brought a tear to my eye...... What memorable teams they were.

[Will]

Robert Drummond actually rushed for 1000 yards in 1997. He would've likely also had 1000 receiving yards had he not been injured for a few games during that season. In 1997, Mitchell, Clemons and Masotti all had over 1000 yards receiving.

I don't know if your referring to 1987 at the beginning of your post, but that team did feature the run a little more than 1983 and 1991. Gil Fenerty rushed for almost 900 yards. The QB situation was a little more clouded in 1987 not unlike the last few years, but Gilbert Renfroe, Danny Barrett and John Congemi proved to be a capable trio that year.

[ArgoRavi]

Ah, not to worry ... seems we've always had great Defences.

In fact, I'm wondering and trying to remember, when was the last time we had a sub-par Defence?
Must've been a while ago. I'm talking over-all season, not just momentary lapses of several games or so. Or perhaps my rose-coloured glasses are tinting the past. Or it might be the beer and whisky/whiskey!
I honestly can't remember....

Cheers !

Our defence in 2008 was awful as the vets that we had all seemed to get old that season plus other teams finally caught up with what Stubler was doing on defence (although, in all fairness, Kavis Reed coordinated the defence that year). Our defence last year was quite bad as well.

[Will]

The defense during the mid-1990's (between Dunigan and Flutie's teams) were brutal.

[AngeloV]

The defense during the mid-1990's (between Dunigan and Flutie's teams) were brutal.

I'm not saying they were great, but they were definitely better than the offences those years.

[Will]

I agree; the 1994 offense with Graves and Kerrigan at QB had it's moments though.

[Midnight Blue]

Our defence in 2008 was awful as the vets that we had all seemed to get old that season plus other teams finally caught up with what Stubler was doing on defence (although, in all fairness, Kavis Reed coordinated the defence that year). Our defence last year was quite bad as well.

I thought last year's Defence was better than statistics show. It's just that it seemed they were always on the field, and couldn't get much rest, since our Offence obviously struggled. It wouldn't surprise me if our D was on the field more than any other D last year. I'll have to look for that stat later. Yes, it's a team sport, but still.... Or maybe I'm just being sentimental.

Cheers !

[Fungi]

Alot of members mentioned what you just did in the old forum, but seem to forget about our wonderful Offence last year. At least this team won't introduce the worst OC this team has ever had in the 100th yr celebration.
BTW...Is there anything happening, celebration wise?

[Midnight Blue]

BTW...Is there anything happening, celebration wise?

Hopefully a Grey Cup parade !

But I think someone mentioned last week or so that it's only still July ... and someone else mentioned that they should be marketing now!

Anyway, sorry to have taken this thread off topic ... so, who needs to be getting more touches!?

I know Chad Kackert is an Import and it is hard to fit him in, but I'd hate to see him get rusty. Besides, a Cory Boyd/Chad Kackert backfield with Ricky Ray would be fun to watch, even if just once in a while, and it would scare, or at least intimidate, opposing teams. Boyd needs to play no matter what (that's his style), but Shirley (there's gotta be someone on this site named Shirley), Shirley we can find a way to get Kackert some game time.

Cheer O !

[ArgoRavi]

I thought last year's Defence was better than statistics show. It's just that it seemed they were always on the field, and couldn't get much rest, since our Offence obviously struggled. It wouldn't surprise me if our D was on the field more than any other D last year. I'll have to look for that stat later. Yes, it's a team sport, but still.... Or maybe I'm just being sentimental.

Cheers !

I never really bought the argument that last year's defence was better than the stats because they were on the field too much. I remember too many games when they gave up points early in the game before they should have been tired. I do recall Byron Parker and/or Jordan Younger saying on this forum that they had to play more conservatively on defence because of the lack of offence but my feeling is that last year's defence was simply not good enough which is why we saw so many changes on defence coming into this season.

[Midnight Blue]

I never really bought the argument that last year's defence was better than the stats because they were on the field too much. I remember too many games when they gave up points early in the game before they should have been tired. I do recall Byron Parker and/or Jordan Younger saying on this forum that they had to play more conservatively on defence because of the lack of offence but my feeling is that last year's defence was simply not good enough which is why we saw so many changes on defence coming into this season.

I hear what you're saying Sir, and you're right of course (pardon the expression -- inside joke), but I remember the 2011 Defence keeping us in the game at least until half-time and into the 3rd quarter in many games, and if our Offence had been better, we probably could have won a few more of those games. Sure, the Defence gave up points in the first quarter (they were just warming up), and in the second quarter (it can happen to anybody -- especially when compared to our historically great Defences), but still, by the time the fourth quarter rolled around, our Defence was exhausted.

Also, I don't recall many, if any, fans on this board, complaining about our Defence last year. Yourself, you were probably just too polite to do so, and others, were probably too ticked off to concentrate on anything other than whining about the Offence. Myself, I thought the D was okay, but not "bad". Of course, with the combination of rose-coloured glasses, and many pints of beer, I may have always been seeing the bright side of things. That combination has served me well in life, but it sometimes interferes with my memories and "analysis" of Football. Of course, the stats don't lie, and neither does the 4-14 team record, and yeah, it may have been time to bring in new people, but, I think with Ricky Ray now here, last year's D would still be rockin'. Anyway, I like our new D, and they are definitely playing great; keep it up guys; it's an Argo tradition!

Cheers !

[Midnight Blue]

Ok, I've given this some more thought. Now, I realize that many of my posts/comments are in the spirit of humour, but right now I'm serious. If Ricky Ray can expand his skills, to have a true option of scrambling with the football (instead of just running for his life), it would help his game and the team in sooo many different ways. And I understand that he has only so many physical skills, and that a QB can't always add/change components of his game, especially if he begins to be set in his ways. And we wouldn't want to throw off the rest of his game, but, Ricky is still young, energetic, and obviously brilliant. He just needs some more incentive (as if getting sacked isn't enough).

This is were Mike O'Shea comes in. Standing on the sideline at practise (or preferrably on an elevated scaffold/platform), O'Shea would use a pellet-gun, to shoot at (well, near) Ray's ankles, after Ray takes the snap. Mike O'Shea was a linebacker, and was used to flushing quarterbacks out of the pocket. This would be no different. "Bang! Bang-Bang-Bang! Bang!", he would fire, all the while shouting at Ray, "Move it! --- Dance, Baby, Dance! --- Move your ass, you old geezer!"

This will entice Ricky Ray to learn to scramble out of the pocket. If this works out, Mike O'Shea can add the role of Assistant Quarterback's Coach to his duties, Ricky Ray will add another dimension to his game, save his body from the turf, and help the team in the process. A Win-Win-Win for everyone.

You're Welcome.


Cheers !


PS - Actually, I wrote about Ricky learning to scramble better on some other thread, a week or so ago. I thought it was on this thread, but apparently it was not. Whatever, the basic principles discussed above, are generally sound, if properly applied. And O'Shea would absolutely love it, as would any other Linebacker.

Bang! Bang-Bang! Run Ricky, Run !!!


Ka 'Pla !

[1argoholic]

Cory had his last touch as the door slammed his arse as he walked through.

[jerrym]

I wonder if ArgoRavi, who set up this thread, is actually Scott Milanovich sending a message to Cory Boyd.

[Will]

I wonder if ArgoRavi, who set up this thread, is actually Scott Milanovich sending a message to Cory Boyd.

Well Ravi has chosen to remain anonymous all these years so you may be right :)

[1argoholic]

Have they got the Grey Cup 100 logo on donuts yet?