Clip from Toronto-Hamilton game: 1982

[Will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHZtgKiIRCM&context=C3c61d90ADOEgsToPDskISEqxS9argII75Weovb52c

This is the channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cflvideo1964?feature=watch

This person has highlights from the late 1960's, late 1970's, early 1980's and US expansion era games. However, the person doesn't post highlights of the game, but merely specific random plays. The one I posted shows the Argos driving against Hamilton at Ivor Wynne Stadium. Presumedly, this is the game from August 13, 1982 where the Argos lost 37-27 to Hamilton. The Argos didn't get their win in Hamilton until the next year.

[paulwoods13]

There is some good stuff on that channel, despite the seeming randomness of the clips and the lack of editing. Some old B-and-W footage of Bill Symons and the late-1960s Argos is there.

I'm expecting to put up some cool stuff on my channel in the next few weeks -- including coverage of Obie's firing in 1989 and the acquisition of Matt Dunigan in 1990. Also a hilarious halftime show where Scott Oake attempts to interview Murray Pezim, Mark Gastineau and Brigitte Nielsen.

[Will]

One thing I took note of in the Hamilton-Toronto clip was that there seemed to be a vocal contingent of Toronto fans at the game.

[Will]

What I like about this person's channel is that he's posting footage from games that you might've had at one point Paul, but were lost when you moved. However, I don't understand why the person simply posting random snippets of the game unless the person has plans to put a ton of the games on DVD's to try to sell people, which I see no evidence that the person is going to do so. Not much to draw from the highlights I posted other than the fact that the "run n' shoot" offense seems to be moving the ball as successfully as it did in the game against Edmonton that you posted.

[294life]

you can find the 1983 argo-ticat east final on youtube. even better. can't believe Obie went for 3rd and less than one late in the game trailing 36-34 with a chance to kick an easy field goal. and they don't even go for a QB sneak but hand it to Minter in the backfield. Poor ticats had all kinds of leads in that game. boo hoo.

[ArgoRavi]

This '82 game in Hamilton was the game after the Argos' big win over Edmonton the previous week. The next year, the Argos won 50-16 in Hamilton IIRC which was one of the great moments in Argo history IMO. It was Toronto's first win in Hamilton since 1977 and prompted the Ticats to trade Tom Clements for Dieter Brock in one of the most notable trades in CFL history (a mid-season one at that).

[Midnight Blue]

ArgoRavi, Sir, I do believe, we share a touch of Argo sentiment, in our soul.

But seriously ... I like your style. Severely limited, as it might be. Due to alcohol restraintments.
Real or imagined.

(Just kidding.)


Long Live Argo Football !

Long Live Wicked Sex !


These are two of our favourite things.


And if all else fails, we can satisfy our souls, on left-over Ti-Cat Chicks.


Life can be good. With a few remnants of near civility.


Cheers!


Midnight

[marcwagz]

only quick reply is working for me midnight blue, enough with the hamilton chicks I'd take a girl from montreal over a hamilton girl any day!

[ArgoRavi]

I have been watching more of the many CFL clips that are on this channel and there is a lot of interesting stuff that should be on ESPN Classics but isn't. Here is a clip from the second last game of the season in 1978 between the Argos and Lions at old Exhibition Stadium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgfIz_1ZLrk&feature=related Note the CBC logo on the bottom right corner of the screen. I don't recall that logo appearing anywhere on CBC until the '92 Winter Olympics perhaps so it is odd that is on this clip. Can anyone wager a guess as to why that would be? It would only be on there if the CBC had rebroadcast that game or that particular clip at some point over the last 20 years and I can't think of any reason why they would have. I love the Argos' home uniforms of that period btw. Here is another clip from that forgettable '78 season with the CBC logo once again on the bottom right corner of the screen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUF3QZdoyK4 I believe that this was the final game as Argo head coach for Leo Cahill. I also seem to have a memory of CBC showing some psychics at the beginning of their telecast of this game trying to lift the curse that seemingly hung over the Argos at that time. Does anyone else recall this or is this some bizarre memory that I have conjured up? :-)

[ArgoRavi]

Here are the 1977 Argos playing at home against Winnipeg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li3P--l7iJY&feature=related That Argo defence changed quite a bit from '77 to '78.

[paulwoods13]

Ravi, I think what happened is that CBC has been stamping their logo on everything in their archive as they digitize it. I doubt any of these older games were ever rebroadcast. The good news is this is evidence that CBC actually has some old games still in their archives, and they are being digitized. I fear that there is very little in CTV's archives from the pre-TSN days. I know CBC has an amazing Argo game from 1982 in its archive (one of the games I had years ago, but lost) because I found it on an online archive search.

[ArgoRavi]

How did you find that Argo game in their archives, Paul? I have tried but can't seem to find it myself.

[paulwoods13]

I can't remember the exact search methodology -- I remember it was quite convoluted and the result (Tor at Wpg from October 1982) was the only game from that year that turned up in the search. I think I did the search through some sort of outside firm that is partnering with the CBC archive.

[ArgoRavi]

Thanks, Paul! That would be a great game to have. The Argos didn't win that game but they did almost stage a miraculous comeback from what I recall.

[Will]

I am interested in seeing highlights from the following games: (i) Toronto @ Saskatchewan from 1982 where the run n' shoot took off, (ii) Toronto @ Hamilton where the Argos beat the Ti-Cats 50-16, (iii) Toronto @ Hamilton from 1987 where the Argos beat the Ti-Cats on a last second TD. I don't know how expensive it would be, but a clever season ticket gift might be a "Best of" DVD. The Leafs have one (some will laugh) and the NFL teams tend to have one. I don't know how much game film is available for the Argos so it might be tough, but it'd be nice to see if they could put some games on there besides the usual suspects (the GC wins, anything from 1990, etc.)

[Will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL_ssE5wVkw&feature=g-all-u&context=G276c576FAAAAAAAABAA

The person posted a clip from the Toronto-Saskatchewan 1982 game, but it is a Roughrider drive that ends with a Zac Henderson INT.

[paulwoods13]

I have that 1982 game against Sask and the 1987 game against Hamilton that argofan87 mentioned. Will get some clips up eventually. Don't have the 50-16 win over Hamilton from 1983 and I have never come across it among collectors. I was at that game if it is the one I am thinking of -- Brazley's first game as an Argo and he ran a pick back for six in the second half.

[ArgoRavi]

Great to see the original Friday Night Football on CTV!

[Will]

Looking at the boxscore from the Star and yep Brazley did have a pick six in the third quarter. Emanuel Tolbert also had touchdowns of 66 and 80 yards within a few minutes of each other. Joe Barnes also threw an 87-yard touchdown to a guy named Holmes during some garbage time.

[Will]

Other things to consider is that the Argos led Hamilton 40-1 after three quarters. The Ti-Cats scored a few touchdowns in the fourth, but presumedly the Argos would've been phasing in some back-ups or not playing as hard.

[argolio]

Looking at the boxscore from the Star and yep Brazley did have a pick six in the third quarter. Emanuel Tolbert also had touchdowns of 66 and 80 yards within a few minutes of each other. Joe Barnes also threw an 87-yard touchdown to a guy named Holmes during some garbage time.Greg Holmes, an Argo from 82-85, and a Toronto boy who somehow found his way to Carroll College in Helena, Montana to play his college ball.

[Will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYLaZi6SjPY&context=C37042b5ADOEgsToPDskISEqxS9argII75Weovb52c

Highlights from a 1983 game between the Argos and Edmonton.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7A7LRkGAME&feature=related

Highlights from a 1982 game between the Argos and Tiger-Cats, only this is the one at Exhibition Stadium played before 52,000 fans. Unfortunately, the Argos defense let them down.

[ArgoRavi]

I remember a bit about that '83 game against Edmonton but did not remember Barnes starting and playing that game at QB. I could have sworn that Holloway had played that one. I remember Greer torching an aging Larry Highbaugh once or twice in that game including for the winning TD. I love the old commercials too! :)

In that '82 game, I remember the Argos scoring very early in that game, perhaps on their first possession, with Holloway throwing a TD pass to Greer. It looked like it could be a great night at that point but the Ticats took it to the Argos after that. I must admit that I was quite happy when Ottawa knocked off Hamilton in the East semi-final that year as the Ticats were a team that the Argos could not solve in '82 and wouldn't solve until their second meeting in '83.

[Will]

Just looking it up in the Star now Ravi. The game was close 19-15 and it sounds like it was windy at the CNE so probably why there was a low score because you'd expect the '83 Argos and '83 Esks to light up the scoreboard, although it appears the game at Commonwealth that year was won 22-15 by the Argos so again a low score. It would appear that Barnes played the entire game as Condredge was injured. The game was won on a 66-yard pass from Barnes to Greer in the fourth quarter. It was kind of neat to see Barnes behind centre in that clip though as most of the clips I've seen from that era have Condredge at QB. Barnes appeared to be a mobile QB whereas Holloway was the drop straight back and pass QB?

[argolio]

Just looking it up in the Star now Ravi. The game was close 19-15 and it sounds like it was windy at the CNE so probably why there was a low scoreMy recollection of that game and the July 14 home win over B.C. (17-14) is that they were hard-hitting, well-played games with a lot of great defensive plays as opposed to bad offense.

[Will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVq-B8KN-nU&context=C355dc6dADOEgsToPDskIMoNCRMst0Vmuo4FqjAEPX

A clip from 1985 in what was a pretty bad year for the Argos. Were their woes that year solely from the fact that Holloway got hurt or were there problems in other areas as well?

It's Pat Marsden announcing right?

[ArgoRavi]

That is Pat Marsden doing play-by-play with Leif Pettersen doing colour. Casale and the offence looked good on that possession. IIRC, Mike Hohensee came off the bench and had a monster game at QB for the Argos that night. However, it was all downhill for Hohensee and Casale after that. Holloway was injured early in the season during a game in Hamilton and didn't return until there were about three games left. Ricky Turner was supposed to be the backup that year but he too was injured in training camp and didn't return until past the midway point of that season. I recall the defence as being okay but the offence had a lot of trouble scoring points with the top two QBs out of the lineup. That was the biggest issue that season IMO. Hamilton finished first in the east that year at 8-8 while the Argos finished in last place and out of the playoffs at 6-10 so there wasn't much separating the four eastern teams that season.

[argolio]

Go figure that we defeated Edmonton at home when we had losing records in '85 and '89 (their big 16-2 season) to keep the 8-year home winning streak alive but we lost to them in '90.

[Will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErZzm4P9M8U&feature=context&context=G2e39cf6FAAAAAAAAAAA

This is a video from a game that took place on November 9, 1986 at Olympic Stadium before an announced crowd of 9045, which was apparently actually 2000 people. I guess this is the Alouettes' last home game until their first home game in 1996, which I believe was also against the Argonauts. J.C Watts is the Argo QB in this video and some neat quirks about this video is that it looks like Chris Schultz is wearing '64' instead of '67' and Darrell K. Smith (I think it's him) is wearing '74' instead of '1.'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CA6hkfjABM&context=C3a3e6c3ADOEgsToPDskIMoNCRMst0Vmuo4FqjAEPX

This is a video from a game that I think took place the week before at Exhibition Stadium. This game was played before 23488, which was probably one of the lowest Argo crowds in years.

BTW, I will avoid posting the Eastern Final clips from 1986 if they get put up :)

[paulwoods13]

Yes, Schultz wore 64 and DK wore 74 (terrible number for a receiver). All I remember about Joe (Joker) Phillips was a pass hitting him in the head as he continued running forward, failing to look back for the ball.

[argolio]

All I remember about Joe (Joker) Phillips was a pass hitting him in the head as he continued running forward, failing to look back for the ball.I remember that. Today he's the head coach at the U. of Kentucky.

Before the rug was pulled and the team folded, I remember there was actually a fair bit of optimism about the Als during the '87 pre-season, especially their defense. Who knows what might have been.

[ArgoRavi]

Yes, Schultz wore 64 and DK wore 74 (terrible number for a receiver). All I remember about Joe (Joker) Phillips was a pass hitting him in the head as he continued running forward, failing to look back for the ball.

I am pretty sure that the ball which hit Joker in the helmet happened in that same Montreal at Toronto game posted above. I remember Pat Marsden being quite amused by that. That game almost drove me around the bend. The Argos were up and down that entire season and had to win the final two games against the 4-12 Alouettes to finish in first place. In the game in Toronto, the Argos played terribly for most of it - the Joker Phillips play may have been the lowest point - but then made a miraculous comeback by scoring a couple of TDs in the final couple minutes of the game. The key play IIRC was a recovery of an onside kick by Marlon Jones. The next week, the Argos won handily and then won by a nice 14 point margin in Hamilton the week after that in the first game of the two-game total point East Final.

[Will]

I always got the impression that aside from the collapse in the eastern final that there wasn't anything too memorable about the 1986 Argos, is that right?

[ArgoRavi]

I always got the impression that aside from the collapse in the eastern final that there wasn't anything too memorable about the 1986 Argos, is that right?

It was better than 1985 but it still seemed very much like a transition year. The team went through a fair number of players and gave up a record number of sacks. They did play some exciting games that season though including a memorable one in Edmonton which they won.

[Will]

It was better than 1985 but it still seemed very much like a transition year. The team went through a fair number of players and gave up a record number of sacks. They did play some exciting games that season though including a memorable one in Edmonton which they won.

It's still mind boggling that the Argos gave up 100+ sacks that season, and still finish first place in their division. Ravi, I'm curious to know how long in advance it was determined that the Eastern Final would be a two-point series between Hamilton and Toronto. Were western fans screaming for the crossover yet or was that still an idea nobody had thought of? Also, were Ottawa fans (despite the Rough Riders awful season) upset that they all of a sudden were being left out of the playoffs that awful teams in the east had made the playoffs with in the past?

[ArgoRavi]

Fu
It's still mind boggling that the Argos gave up 100+ sacks that season, and still finish first place in their division. Ravi, I'm curious to know how long in advance it was determined that the Eastern Final would be a two-point series between Hamilton and Toronto. Were western fans screaming for the crossover yet or was that still an idea nobody had thought of? Also, were Ottawa fans (despite the Rough Riders awful season) upset that they all of a sudden were being left out of the playoffs that awful teams in the east had made the playoffs with in the past?

Ottawa and Montreal were both really bad that year. IIRC, Montreal finished 4-14 and Ottawa was 3-15. It was probably evident by mid-season of '86 that only two teams would make the playoffs from the East that year. I really don't recall anyone being upset by this. If anything, the league probably got a lot of positive media attention for making this change to the playoff format. Honestly, I have always thought that the '86 playoff format is superior to the crossover format as it eliminates the possibility of an all-west or all-east Grey Cup and preserves the traditional east-west game. Furthermore, the league got an extra playoff game under the '86 format as there were two West semi-finals. I don't recall any discussion of the crossover playoff format back at that time.

[paulwoods13]

I have always thought that the '86 playoff format is superior to the crossover format as it eliminates the possibility of an all-west or all-east Grey Cup and preserves the traditional east-west game. Furthermore, the league got an extra playoff game under the '86 format as there were two West semi-finals. I don't recall any discussion of the crossover playoff format back at that time.

I am in 100% agreement Ravi -- it is a way better format than the crossover. Not only does it preserve the East-West GC and create an extra playoff game, it means that both teams in the Grey Cup have played two playoff games and eliminates byes. And it allows a week for a bitter rivalry to go completely ballistic.

[AngeloV]

Sorry guys, I never have been a fan of the 2 point total game series. The way I see it a win is a win. I don't believe a team that loses 21-20 deserves to be in the Grey Cup over the team they were playing because they won the other game 21-19. I have no problem with the crossover.

[Will]

Sorry guys, I never have been a fan of the 2 point total game series. The way I see it a win is a win. I don't believe a team that loses 21-20 deserves to be in the Grey Cup over the team they were playing because they won the other game 21-19. I have no problem with the crossover.

Perhaps a two-out-of-three scenario could work better? The schedule would have to be juggled a little bit to provide for that extra week, but it wouldn't be too difficult IMO. In 1986 the Grey Cup was on November 30, which is one of the later Grey Cups aside from when they used to sneak into December in days of yore so it didn't really fit in at that point. The 2-out-of-3 would give the first place team an extra game of home field and avoid a 41-40 point series that Angelo presented in his scenario. But, realistically we don't want to be in a position to have to use this. Optimally, we want three teams that are solid or better to compete in the divisional playoffs.

[argolio]

One reason for giving up that many sacks in '86 was that Ian Beckstead had a really rough season, and he took holding call after holding call. But just when you think he may have played his way out of the league (and I think he was replaced as a starter late in that season), he came back and turned out to be a very productive player.

The team MVP in '86 was probably Hank Ilesic. His punts got the Argos out of bad field position and put opponents in trouble countless times. He set career highs with a 48.5 yard punting average and 22 singles.

[ArgoRavi]

One reason for giving up that many sacks in '86 was that Ian Beckstead had a really rough season, and he took holding call after holding call. But just when you think he may have played his way out of the league (and I think he was replaced as a starter late in that season), he came back and turned out to be a very productive player.

The team MVP in '86 was probably Hank Ilesic. His punts got the Argos out of bad field position and put opponents in trouble countless times. He set career highs with a 48.5 yard punting average and 22 singles.

Didn't Hank set a record for number of punts in a season in '86? I really don't remember our offence in '86 being as bad as it has been in recent years but I guess that we had our struggles that season with all of the sacks and punts. I think that one of the problems that year may have been lack of continuity on the roster as well. We went through a lot of players that season IIRC.

[argolio]

Yeah he did set a record (since broken). Our offense was probably better than the last two years but still near the bottom of the league in '86.

[Will]

The Argos of that year were minus 24 in the PF/PA department. If I may add my 0.02 cents as someone who wasn't actually there the departure of Terry Greer probably hurt although the team did have a 1000 yard receiver in Chris Woods guys like Darrell K. Smith were a year away from breaking out. Holloway was also getting older and I understand that even during the peak of the run n' shoot that he was taking a lot of punishment.Also, a lack of running game may have hurt?

[Will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm8u1C1GZMk&feature=g-all-u&context=G23eabf5FAAAAAAAABAA

The Argos offensive line of 1986 at work.

[argolio]

I believe veteran Willie Thomas (#51), obtained from Saskatchewan, started 1986 at centre. He retired after that season and then wrote this book (http://www.gusbooks.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=30482&CLSN_2380=1296202791238095682f4bc8fc3258fb) the next year.

Receiver Steven Cox (#1) showed flashes in his short Argo career. If memory serves, he scored the winning TD in the season opener at home vs. Hamilton.

[paulwoods13]

If I may add my 0.02 cents as someone who wasn't actually there the departure of Terry Greer probably hurt . . .

Understatement of the year, argofan87. Greer was the greatest receiver in Argo history, and one of the greatest in CFL history. He was simply irreplaceable.

[Will]

Understatement of the year, argofan87. Greer was the greatest receiver in Argo history, and one of the greatest in CFL history. He was simply irreplaceable.

Perhaps not, but I think Darrell K. Smith ended up being a great receiver and arguably ranks #2 behind Greer, but as I said he hadn't broken out in 1986 yet.

[paulwoods13]

Perhaps not, but I think Darrell K. Smith ended up being a great receiver and arguably ranks #2 behind Greer, but as I said he hadn't broken out in 1986 yet.

Who is No. 2 is an interesting question. Top candidates from the passing era are probably DK Smith, Mookie Mitchell and Paul Masotti, with honourable mentions to Paul Pearson and the long-suffering Peter Muller. From the late 1960s-early 1970s you'd have to also include Mel Profit, Mike Eben and my favourite as a kid, Bobby Taylor. There were some short-lived wonders like Rocket Ismail, David Williams, Tony Miles, Bob Gaddis, Chris Woods, Kerry Taylor and Manny Hazard. I've no doubt forgotten some other obvious ones.

I guess if I had to vote for No. 2, I would choose DK Smith by a nose over Mookie Mitchell. DK was absolutely sensational in 1990 on an offence that scored 689 points. Mookie's 160-catch season was something else, too, but I think DK was a more dominant receiver in his biggest season than Mookie was in his. Greer, tho, was truly in a class by himself, IMO.

[Will]

Smith had 20 touchdowns in that 1990 season, which is spectacular. But, 160 catches in a season isn't too shabby either.

[AngeloV]

I vote for DK over Mookie. Mookie had an awesome year, but I would guess maybe 60+ of his catches that year were wide screens caught behind the line of scrimmage. DK, IMO was more of a pure receiver, and made way more of the tough catches in heavy traffic over the middle.

[OV Argo]

Greer was awesome - greatest Argo receiver all-time IMO; DK Smith and Mookie as the all-time slots (but Mel Profit as a TE -inside receiver was up there - but he didn't play near as long); Paul Masotti as the other all-time WR - vastly under-rated in his time IMO when Canadians at certain positions did not get that highly rated in the CFL; Ismael was a very good CFL receiver but was more noteworthy as an all-around threat - dangerous punt & KO returner and also lined-up at RB for carries out of the backfield. Paul Pearson as a quality guts/ good hands receiver is a favorite of mine; Mike Eben too; but like Paul says - there are many and some i'm probably not recalling now - but a number of them were one or two season Argo wonders. Pinball ended up a great receiver in his own right in that hybrid RB/slot role - he had good hands and made things happen; way before him - Eric the flea Allen was dangerous this way - as Duire is now.

[argolio]

Can't disagree with the consensus about Terry Greer.

After watching tapes of a few old games recently, Peter Mueller and Bobby Taylor stood out among receivers.

[Will]

I'm watching the old clips from the 1990 season that Paul Woods has posted on youtube and Darrell K. Smith was absolutely spectacular in both the games against Calgary and Hamilton. I bet the media had a tough job choosing between him and Pinball for the Argos' Most Outstanding Player that season. You also have to consider the Argos didn't have much stability at QB because of all the injuries to Dunigan.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree with those who say that Greer was the finest receiver in Argo history with D.K. Smith at #2. I hope that Smith is doing okay these days. He didn't show up for the '91 reunion, did he?

[Will]

He (Smith) was probably the most notable player from that team who didn't attend besides Harold Hallman who passed away. Lori Bursey told me at Badali's one day that nobody really knew what Smith was up to these days, but an Argo staff member I spoke to during the summer also said that they had tracked down Smith.

[LLB997]

great vids, my fave is the Argos/Als 77 matchup on youtube. Seeing Cahill chain smoking on the sidelines is hilarious.

[ArgoRavi]

great vids, my fave is the Argos/Als 77 matchup on youtube. Seeing Cahill chain smoking on the sidelines is hilarious.

That is a classic moment! Leo was a real character on the sidelines as we could see from the clips of that game.