Argonauts interested in adding krumrie to coaching staff

[Will]

http://tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=386036

...and yes they mentioned the broken leg in the Super Bowl.

[argolio]

and yes they mentioned the broken leg in the Super Bowl.

Joe Theisman's injury might be the only worse one that I've seen.

[Will]

Have you ever seen video of Napoleon McCallum's injury?

[argolio]

Have you ever seen video of Napoleon McCallum's injury?

Yep. Another really bad one that comes to mind is U. of Manitoba running back Matt Henry in the Vanier Cup.

I better stop, this thread is getting morbid.

[ArgoRavi]

Gerry Ifill's injury at SkyDome in 1990 wasn't pretty either. That happened toward the end of the 70-18 win over Calgary and the injury ended Ifill's career.

[Area 51]

Anything would be an improvement on what they've had coaching the DLine, but Krumrie's a bit of a wild man.

If Toronto does end up hiring him they'd better bring two new DTs in with him, because I guarantee Huntley and Wroten would not make it through training camp with him as their position coach.

[AngeloV]

Anything would be an improvement on what they've had coaching the DLine, but Krumrie's a bit of a wild man.

If Toronto does end up hiring him they'd better bring two new DTs in with him, because I guarantee Huntley and Wroten would not make it through training camp with him as their position coach.

Really? So what you are saying is that you beyond the shadow of a doubt know that their work ethic sucks? This coming from a guy that thinks BJ Hall showed enough last season to earn an invite back. I don't think Huntley was all that bad last year. Maybe you expected him to have 30 sacks or something, but I still believe he is a premier DT in this league.

[Area 51]

Really? So what you are saying is that you beyond the shadow of a doubt know that their work ethic sucks? This coming from a guy that thinks BJ Hall showed enough last season to earn an invite back. I don't think Huntley was all that bad last year. Maybe you expected him to have 30 sacks or something, but I still believe he is a premier DT in this league.

Yep, really. It's more than just work ethic.

Wroten's a guy that smoked himself out of LSU, then smoked himself out of the NFL. What does that tell you about his committment level? How many games has Huntley sat out over the past few years because of various aches and pains?

Not sure if you ever watched Krumrie play or if you ever saw the Hard Knocks series on the Chiefs from a few years ago, but he's a pretty demanding guy. If the Argos want to get rid of the country club atmosphere, bringing him in would definitely be a culture change. But turning up the intensity and demanding accountability is going to mean that some guys won't make it.

As for BJ Hall, I thought he was the 3rd string QB they brought in for short yardage last year. What part of that role did he consistently fail at executing? Did he always get stuffed on short yardage? Was he holding the clipboard incorrectly? You won't find a better running QB, he's got a big arm, and he got the job done on 3rd down. Maybe he develops into something more, maybe he never does. But in terms of filling his role, last year he got the job done.

[Area 51]

[gilthethrill]

Area 51, you continually go on about a "Country Club Atmosphere"..please expand on this.

[Will]

Area 51, you continually go on about a "Country Club Atmosphere"..please expand on this.

Area 51 isn't the first person to use the term "country club atmosphere." It was a term that was applied to the so-called "Muskoka 5" of the Toronto Maple Leafs back 3-5 years ago, which consisted of Mats Sundin, Darcy Tucker, Tomas Kaberle, Bryan McCabe and I believe Pavel Kubina. As you might imagine the label isn't meant to be flattering. If I had to simmer it down to a few different definitions, these are the ones I'd apply:

[1] The belief that the players on a team are held to little or no accountability by their coaches, particularly veteran players. I actually think the better description here might be that veteran players are held to a different or lesser standard than rookies.

[2] Practices and preparation for games are in a relaxed atmosphere, that is to say, that the coaches aren't Bill Parcells or Jimmy Johnson.

Also, for the definition to be applied the team in question must have had a poor to medicore season.

I just want to disclaim that by answering your question gilthethrill that I'm not attempting to label the 2011 Argos as a "country club," merely providing my interpretation of the term to help answer your question.

[gilthethrill]

Thanks argofan87, no worries. I am just curious where Area 51 has come up with his opinion. Does he attend practises on a regular basis? The film sessions? JY26, do you agree with Area 51???

[Will]

As an addition, the theory of a "country club" doesn't become a problem if the team is winning just like the theory of a "boot camp" coach doesn't become a problem if the team is winning.

[Area 51]

Area 51, you continually go on about a "Country Club Atmosphere"..please expand on this.

It's way to describe an organization that has no accountability and no committment to winning - - just have everybody show up once a week to "do their best" and then cash those game cheques.

There were times last year when Brandon Rideau quit on his routes - - just pulled up, stopped running and gave up on the play resulting in easy INTs. I posted video showing this. Did Rideau get cut, or at least benched, for his non-effort? Nope. Just keep rolling him out there as a starter. Where was the accountability?

My seats are behind the Argo bench and I have a decent view of the the sideline area. I'm ready to put my fist through a wall after sitting through yet another pathetic performance and I see guys laughing and joking on the sideline. How do you explain that? Is it funny to get your ass handed to you? Or did they decide it's better to laugh than cry?

The team's 2-6 heading into a bye week. Does the coach/GM take that time to break down film to figure out what's going wrong and get some changes implemented? Nope. He takes off to watch some theatre for the week. It's one thing for the players to spend the bye week relaxing, but I've never heard of a coach/GM going on a mid season vacation. Especially when the team is in the dumpster about to have the season go down the drain. Is that common practice throughout the CFL & NFL?

The offence was terrible in 2010 and a complete disaster in 2011 but did they change any of the assistants or the coordinator? The passing game was absolutely useless, the running game was the only bright spot, but did they change the offence to a ground based attack? Nope. Same garbage scheme, same garbage coaches.

Then you have players coming on message boards saying nothing needs to change, bring back all the same players and keep running the same schemes and eventually they'll figure it out. Sure. Why change a good thing? Accountability might mean that a few people lose their jobs, and that would mean no more game cheques.

Pure speculation and conjecture on my part? Maybe I'm the only one on this message board who felt like it was a country club in Argoland. But when reporters who are much closer to the team than you or I start raising the same concerns about the team atmosphere, there might be something to it.

[Will]

Okay, you're saying the "country club" atmosphere doesn't work. But, neither did Bart Andrus' philosophy. I think after the disaster that was the 2009 season that Barker's mentality was probably the right thing for this team...for the 2010 season. In retrospect, whatever mentality that was it didn't carry over into 2011 season. The locker room culture could be just as bad if it is a "boot camp" mentality like it was reported to have been under Adnrus. So basically what you're hoping for is that Milanovich can balance the two effectively?

You listed your evidence for the "country club," but I'd say that i) the Argos have addressed several of the areas that you railed about and ii) there is still a significant portion of the off-season to exact change.

[gilthethrill]

Area 51, you mentioned no accountability. You mentioned Brandon Rideau quitting on his routes. Where is he now? Cut. That is not accountability? Chip Garber? Fired during the season. That is not accountability?

It is not always easy to replace co-ordinators at mid season. Unless you promote from within, like in Steinaurs case, all the qualified coaches are already employed. Barker, in addition to his HC & GM roles did assist the now departed Elinzondo with the offense, although with not much success.

I just don't think "airlifts" work during the season A51.

[Area 51]

Area 51, you mentioned no accountability. You mentioned Brandon Rideau quitting on his routes. Where is he now? Cut. That is not accountability? Chip Garber? Fired during the season. That is not accountability?

It is not always easy to replace co-ordinators at mid season. Unless you promote from within, like in Steinaurs case, all the qualified coaches are already employed. Barker, in addition to his HC & GM roles did assist the now departed Elinzondo with the offense, although with not much success.

Why did it take so long to address the Rideau situation? It's not as if they would have missed his productivity. Bolden, Tranks and Bradwell were all sitting around rotting on the bench/PR while this dog was trotting out to his starting role every week.

The Tennis Player was clearly way out of his league as an OC in 2010 - - why bring him back for another go-round in 2011? Fire him the day the season ends and bring in a new "qualified" OC to revamp the offensive scheme in the off season. Ok, so they did. But why not change up the play calling? Tell the Tennis Player he only has three plays to choose from - - run left, run right or run up the middle.

I notice you didn't mention anything about Barker taking a vacation in the middle of the season. If that's not the opposite of accountability, I don't know what is. And when the coach/GM is mor einterested in more interested in watching theatre than fixing his team, I don't know what else to call it other than a country club.

[1argoholic]

Ravi I'll never gorget that Ifell injury and I remember them showing a closeup on the jumbotron. That was it for him after that.

[Area 51]

The locker room culture could be just as bad if it is a "boot camp" mentality like it was reported to have been under Adnrus. So basically what you're hoping for is that Milanovich can balance the two effectively?

Ding, ding, ding! Yes! Finally someone who can comprehend what I'm saying.

Andrus had no clue what he was doing in the CFL and he tried to be an iron fisted dictator. That's the worst possible combination for a leader. If you're going to run a "boot camp" you'd better know your sh!t inside and out.

If you don't know what you're doing, then you can get away with it for a while by being a player-friendly coach and letting the team have a wide lattitude. The players will respond in the short term, especially if they're just coming off an idiot like Andrus, but things will soon degenerate into a country club.

You can be a player-friendly coach and still run a tight ship. The best example I can think of is Jimmy Johnson. Look at the personalities he had at the U. A coach like Andrus would have been eaten alive in his first month there. And with a soft coach the team would have been completely out of control. As it was, they were the most bad-assed team in NCAA history, but Johnson was clearly in control and had the respect of his team. They would go through a wall for him. I can't think of a college or pro team that played with more emotion that Johnson's Hurricane teams. Also can't think of any that have been more intimidating.

Milanovich doesn't need to be the second coming of Genghis Khan. He doesn't need to yell and scream all the time. But he needs to hold the players accountable - - you quit on a route and you're gone. Can't manage to make a tackle? Sit down on the bench. And most importantly he needs to lead by example. If the coach isn't putting in the work, why would the players? So that means no vacations during the season, it means having air-tight schemes in place that actually work, and it also means being able to implement adjustments in-game and throughout the season.

I'm excited about 2012 for the Argos. I think Milanovich was a good choice and especially bringing in a DC who has a clue about running a defence. Milanovich doesn't strike me an an in-you-face screamer, and neither does Jones, but there's no doubt that Krumrie would fit that description.

[gilthethrill]

Why did it take so long to address the Rideau situation? It's not as if they would have missed his productivity. Bolden, Tranks and Bradwell were all sitting around rotting on the bench/PR while this dog was trotting out to his starting role every week.

The Tennis Player was clearly way out of his league as an OC in 2010 - - why bring him back for another go-round in 2011? Fire him the day the season ends and bring in a new "qualified" OC to revamp the offensive scheme in the off season. Ok, so they did. But why not change up the play calling? Tell the Tennis Player he only has three plays to choose from - - run left, run right or run up the middle.

I notice you didn't mention anything about Barker taking a vacation in the middle of the season. If that's not the opposite of accountability, I don't know what is. And when the coach/GM is mor einterested in more interested in watching theatre than fixing his team, I don't know what else to call it other than a country club.

I notice you did not mention anything about Garber being dismissed during the season either. As for Barker going away to NY for a few days, yes, that did catch me off guard & to my knowledge other CFL coaches don't go away during bye weeks, but I could be mistaken.

As for Rideau, my take on that is purely evaluation, not "Country Club"...I can only assume the staff felt he was better than Bolden or Tranks..not that I agree with that, but that is the only explaination I can give.

I also have posted in the past that Barker brought back his 2010 coaching staff back intact was an attempt to gain continuity, something the team has lacked recently. The lingering injury to Jyles shoulder may have held the offence back even more...again Area 51, these are just simply my take, I could be totally wrong.