Employee Alleged Harassment Case - Chad Kelly

[ArgoRavi]

Then why did this linger for so long? Why didn’t she go to the head strength and conditioning coach, or Dinwiddie, Pinball, Magri sooner? Why did it become more of an issue after her contract wasn’t renewed?

I am not defending the alleged actions, just stating wondering why it took so long for an action to put a stop to it. If she had documented this with management or HR, it likely would have stopped immediately.

How much power did she have compared to Chad Kelly? Ultimately, that's what this is all about - power - and Kelly knew damn well that he had a lot more of it than she did. As 3downnation.com said in their podcast, Chad Kelly is making many times more money than this coach. Unfortunately, that stuff matters a lot.

[paulwoods13]

A lot of this shitshow is a result of a bad mgmt structure. The club president pays little attention to the club, and brought in as GM a guy who is beloved by fans but has many other non-Argo things on his plate and isn't as hands-on as virtually any other GM in any sport. Surely this will force some appropriate changes at that level.

[AngeloV]

How much power did she have compared to Chad Kelly? Ultimately, that's what this is all about - power - and Kelly knew damn well that he had a lot more of it than she did. As 3downnation.com said in their podcast, Chad Kelly is making many times more money than this coach. Unfortunately, that stuff matters a lot.

You really think Pinball wouldn't have addressed it if he was aware? I believe he would have put a stop to it right away. It also allegedly started in 2022 when he was a back up QB making 67k. How much power did he really have then?

[paulwoods13]

You really think Pinball wouldn't have addressed it if he was aware? I believe he would have put a stop to it right away. It also allegedly started in 2022 when he was a back up QB making 67k. How much power did he really have then?

Power is not only about money. Kelly had a low salary in 2022, but he was clearly and openly seen by some high up in the org as a star in the making. That said, at $67k or thereabouts, he was still making three times as much as the complainant was.

[bluto]

If I had a friend in a hostile work environment who told me that they were being sexually harassed and that they had reapplied to come back to that job at least twice, I'd have questions about their mental stability and/or truthfulness.

[TICATS SUCK !]

I agree with those who don't think Kelly should have been at camp, because of what I perceive as poor optics. Until the allegations surfaced, Kelly was doing and saying all the right things. It seemed like he had made the necessary changes to become a new and improved version of himself. I truly hope that he finds what he needs in order to achieve greater personal growth. It will be interesting to me to see how the Argos proceed should Kelly decide to make an appeal.

[kellynjk]

Well Kelly may have been doing and saying all the right things to the outside world, but at the same time he was harassing a colleague in the organization for 2 years. So I'm not sure he has become a new and improved version of himself. He sounds like the same arrogant, self-entitled, immature person he's been for the last decade, who manages to self-sabotage every single opportunity he has been given. Regrettably he doesn't seem to learn from mistakes!!

[AngeloV]

I agree with those who don't think Kelly should have been at camp, because of what I perceive as poor optics. Until the allegations surfaced, Kelly was doing and saying all the right things. It seemed like he had made the necessary changes to become a new and improved version of himself. I truly hope that he finds what he needs in order to achieve greater personal growth. It will be interesting to me to see how the Argos proceed should Kelly decide to make an appeal.

Not that I agree with this, but I think the Argos will give in to public pressure and cut ties with him.
I am willing to bet there are players on every team that have done worse things that just aren’t public.

For those that say he would be fired in any other line of work, I disagree. It is very hard to fire someone for a non criminal act without some sort of warning first.

[Rich]

I’m trying to understand. People are upset that Kelly was at camp yesterday, even though he wasn’t in uniform or practicing with the team. Are people saying he should not be allowed to set foot in Argos camp until September when the suspension runs out, not even in civvies to attend team meetings?

[OV Argo]

Not that I agree with this, but I think the Argos will give in to public pressure and cut ties with him.
I am willing to bet there are players on every team that have done worse things that just aren’t public.

For those that say he would be fired in any other line of work, I disagree. It is very hard to fire someone for a non criminal act without some sort of warning first.

Don't know where that is going to come from? - why was he allowed to be at first day of camp if they are thinking of cutting ties with him ?

I watch a bit of national TV news here (CBC & CTV say) and I haven't seen the Kelly/Argos story reported in their limited loop of stories, but maybe I missed it? Or maybe the story will grow and get more publicity ?

[paulwoods13]

If I had a friend in a hostile work environment who told me that they were being sexually harassed and that they had reapplied to come back to that job at least twice, I'd have questions about their mental stability and/or truthfulness.

You would feel they are maybe a liar or unstable, but you wouldn't have any feelings about the employer's duty to provide a safe work environment?

[Will]

I’m trying to understand. People are upset that Kelly was at camp yesterday, even though he wasn’t in uniform or practicing with the team. Are people saying he should not be allowed to set foot in Argos camp until September when the suspension runs out, not even in civvies to attend team meetings?

Yes

[Rich]

Yes

Do you know what official CFL policy is on this Will? I know in the NFL suspended players are allowed to participate fully in team activities in training camp, but that once the season starts they have to stay away from the team completely.

["Issues"Mcgee]

A lot of this shitshow is a result of a bad mgmt structure. The club president pays little attention to the club, and brought in as GM a guy who is beloved by fans but has many other non-Argo things on his plate and isn't as hands-on as virtually any other GM in any sport. Surely this will force some appropriate changes at that level.

This is only as big of a sht show as it is because of people waving their arms in the air, declaring how much of a sht show it is.

The issue is bigger than Kelly, as it is the supposed wrongful dismissal that triggered all this. It's odd how some people are desperate to see Kelly's career ruined, and they seem to want it done before the matter heads to trial.

It's mob rule.

[Will]

Dave Naylor has written THIS article. He has seen the executive summary of the 87-page report. Of note:

1. The investigation was conducted by Buckingham Security Services Ltd., a Saskatchewan-based company specializing in business investigations and security solutions;

2. The investigation corroborated 3 of the 6 allegations made against Kelly;

3. Kelly did make persistent advances on the former coach, which constitutes "sexual harassment as defined by the Ontario Occupational Health and Safety Act."

4. Among the evidence supporting the finding of sexual harassment are copies of text messages from Kelly to the former coach in September of 2023, including one in which Kelly invites her to his hotel room in Hamilton, one in which Kelly asks her over to his place, and another in which she tells another Argos employee of the persistent invitations from Kelly.

5. The executive summary also supports two other allegations – that Kelly acted aggressively towards the former coach when confronted in the team breakfast room on the morning of Nov. 6, 2023, and that later that same day Kelly yelled derogatory words at the former coach.

6. Three other allegations investigated and documented in the report – that Kelly made public accusations about the former coach being involved with another Argonauts player, that Kelly threatened her, and that the quarterback was involved in the team’s decision not to renew her contract – could not be corroborated by investigators.

7. On the allegation that Kelly made public accusations about the former coach being involved with a teammate on a team bus on Nov. 5, 2023, the report states the investigation found that “while present and participating in the conversations, Kelly was reportedly not the source of the original comments.”

8. The morning after the conversation on the bus, the former coach confronted Kelly at the team breakfast area at BMO Field over what she heard he’d said on the bus the previous day.The former coach told investigators she felt she could address the issue with Kelly, but he went into a “rage, throwing his plate down and screaming at her.” She told investigators she believed Kelly was trying to intimidate her.
Kelly described the interaction differently to investigators, saying the former coach started yelling at him before he had begun his breakfast and he left the scene, feeling attacked and accused of something “he did not do or say,” according to the summary.
The investigators were not able to talk to any witnesses to that event but concluded that harassment took place.

[paulwoods13]

Given that it is late in the afternoon on a Friday and nothing has been heard from the Argos org today, I assume we are now waiting to see if Kelly is on the field when main camp opens on Sunday. As far as I can tell there are no tweeting journalists on site today. Nothing has been reported (that I've seen, at least) about who's on the field today.

[Will]

Given that it is late in the afternoon on a Friday and nothing has been heard from the Argos org today, I assume we are now waiting to see if Kelly is on the field when main camp opens on Sunday. As far as I can tell there are no tweeting journalists on site today. Nothing has been reported (that I've seen, at least) about who's on the field today.

Perhaps nobody could make it out there -- I would've thought, however, that media might have been curious to see if the Argos changed their tune a bit about having Kelly on the field given the reaction from yesterday.

[Waffle]

This is only as big of a sht show as it is because of people waving their arms in the air, declaring how much of a sht show it is.
The issue is bigger than Kelly, as it is the supposed wrongful dismissal that triggered all this. It's odd how some people are desperate to see Kelly's career ruined, and they seem to want it done before the matter heads to trial.
It's mob rule.

I have just read Naylor’s account on TSN, and have several issues with the independent investigation and their report. I am not a lawyer but worked with lawyers for many years in adjudicating legal issues. To understand the legal issues involved, you would have to read the case law around the words in the Ontario Human Rights Code, and its legal application, and you really need a lawyer’s (with experience with the Ontario Human Rights Code) opinion in order to draw conclusions.


I find it curious that the CFL hired a security firm to do the independent investigation, and based in Saskatchewan no less. If you look at their web site, their investigators are basically all ex police officers. I don’t live in Ontario any more, but here in BC numerous cases are referred by the police to Crown Counsel for charges, and they never get to court because the Crown Counsel lawyers deem there is insufficient evidence to get a conviction. The choice of this security firm was a poor choice by the CFL in my opinion and one has to wonder why they were chosen.


Unfortunately in Naylor’s report, we are not given all the evidence gathered in the independent investigation. It would be really helpful to have supporting evidence from people around both the coach and Kelly to fully understand what happened and what mitigating circumstances there might be related to each of the episodes. Cherry picking out parts of the report is not helpful to anyone, unless you have a particular bias against someone. Drawing conclusions without any basis in fact is not acceptable at least in a court of law.


Having said that, unless there are some mitigating circumstances, the emails that Kelly sent (and according to case law around the Ontario Human Rights Code even one episode of “harassment” can constitute a pattern depending on the circumstances) would seem to be sexual harassment under the Ontario Code and Kelly will pay a price for that, even without the other stuff.


It would be of interest to know what training is given the Argo’s organization employees regarding harassment in the workplace. Did Kelly know, or should he have known that inviting another employee to his hotel room could be sexual harassment for example?


I agree with “issues" McGee. I hope this goes to trial to see what a judge has to say. Unfortunately for Kelly, his football career is likely scuppered even if he is found innocent on most of the complaints.

[Will]

I have just read Naylor’s account on TSN, and have several issues with the independent investigation and their report. I am not a lawyer but worked with lawyers for many years in adjudicating legal issues. To understand the legal issues involved, you would have to read the case law around the words in the Ontario Human Rights Code, and its legal application, and you really need a lawyer’s (with experience with the Ontario Human Rights Code) opinion in order to draw conclusions.


I find it curious that the CFL hired a security firm to do the independent investigation, and based in Saskatchewan no less. If you look at their web site, their investigators are basically all ex police officers. I don’t live in Ontario any more, but here in BC numerous cases are referred by the police to Crown Counsel for charges, and they never get to court because the Crown Counsel lawyers deem there is insufficient evidence to get a conviction. The choice of this security firm was a poor choice by the CFL in my opinion and one has to wonder why they were chosen.


Unfortunately in Naylor’s report, we are not given all the evidence gathered in the independent investigation. It would be really helpful to have supporting evidence from people around both the coach and Kelly to fully understand what happened and what mitigating circumstances there might be related to each of the episodes. Cherry picking out parts of the report is not helpful to anyone, unless you have a particular bias against someone. Drawing conclusions without any basis in fact is not acceptable at least in a court of law.


Having said that, unless there are some mitigating circumstances, the emails that Kelly sent (and according to case law around the Ontario Human Rights Code even one episode of “harassment” can constitute a pattern depending on the circumstances) would seem to be sexual harassment under the Ontario Code and Kelly will pay a price for that, even without the other stuff.


It would be of interest to know what training is given the Argo’s organization employees regarding harassment in the workplace. Did Kelly know, or should he have known that inviting another employee to his hotel room could be sexual harassment for example?


I agree with “issues" McGee. I hope this goes to trial to see what a judge has to say. Unfortunately for Kelly, his football career is likely scuppered even if he is found innocent on most of the complaints.

Are you able to expand on the bolded paragraph?

[paulwoods13]

I find it curious that the CFL hired a security firm to do the independent investigation, and based in Saskatchewan no less. If you look at their web site, their investigators are basically all ex police officers. I don’t live in Ontario any more, but here in BC numerous cases are referred by the police to Crown Counsel for charges, and they never get to court because the Crown Counsel lawyers deem there is insufficient evidence to get a conviction. The choice of this security firm was a poor choice by the CFL in my opinion and one has to wonder why they were chosen.

I'm not prepared to offer an opinion about the appropriateness of this firm being chosen (altho IMO its location in Saskatchewan is irrelevant), but it is certainly a choice about which the CFL should be asked. Why was Buckingham chosen rather than other available options, many if not most of which would have lawyers conduct such an investigation? Curious indeed to turn to a bunch of ex-Mounties for this.