Argofans

Whatever happened, or whatever Kelly did, it was serious enough to warrant a full investigation and a disciplinary outcome. And whatever anybody thinks, or whatever side you want to take, the reality is that the team and Kelly both settled the lawsuit and did not grieve the suspension. So that tells me that there must have been merit to the complaints against him.

Having said that, the team is at this time, still standing behind Kelly and offering a chance of redemption... should he comply with the terms of the suspension. I think that is a reasonable path. I don't honestly believe that the organization would do that if the conduct had been that horrific... I am not trying to downplay it, but they must see that there is path forward.

paulwoods13 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 3:52 pm

IssuesMcgee wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 1:58 pm So you've implied that you have pondered walking away from the team if Kelly comes back. Which is your decision and I respect that.

Would you stop selling your books? What would you do with the unsold copies? Burn them?

What would you say to Pinball? Do you consider him an immoral person for sticking up for Kelly?

I'm asking this because I find what you are saying very hard to believe.

You can believe (or not believe) whatever you want. As I said, I'm waiting to see what happens in the coming weeks before reaching any conclusions. There are many potential outcomes here.

I’m curious to this stance from any Argos fan as well. I wonder why is it that Kelly is the final straw? There have been much worse acts committed from players in all leagues, the CFL, even the Argos in the past. Why is it Kelly, who harassed a lady (jerk move, but pales in comparison to others) the one that ends someone’s fandom? He’s serving his punishment and if he comes back a better man, what’s the problem?

Due to my construction background, I am still friends with a rather infamous ex-Argos executive. We’ve talked about a lot of situations teams deal with every year. Drugs, mental instability, abuse, adultery, violence, etc. Am I really the messenger of truth telling you guys that a lot of athletes are not good people, have major problems or at the very least make mistakes like many of us do? Even some of our hero’s, my hero’s, have done some dumb things.

I’ll give one example. Robert Baker was a popular receiver who was a convicted cocaine dealer. Pinball tried to change his ways, but he was still very violent (ask Pre), a total loose canon. After leaving the Argos, he went right back into the guns and drugs, and of course jail. They all knew it. I didn’t hear anyone denouncing their Argos fandom during that time. He was way worse of a person (who ruined all sorts of family’s lives with drugs) than Kelly.

^ social media wasn’t around back then? A lot of that information wasn’t made public unless you had an insider. I reference “twitter” a lot because to me it’s this strange community of holier than thou know it alls and hockey twitter may possibly be worse than the CFL’s. But if those fans online knew what hockey players are like, they’d quickly turn on their favourite players maybe hence why the league sucks at marketing its players and having any sort of personality. CFL has personality and also media with some vendetta against the league and will do anything it takes to bring it down. Not saying Kelly or any player should be swept under the rug but I bet a lot of other leagues do a better job keeping it internally.

Glad you mentioned hockey. Puck Bunny culture is the most degrading thing to women in all of sport, not just the pro level. I remember it in my 90’s high school teams. With the recent cases against NHL players, it looks like it’s very much still alive and well, as they say. If anyone is really going to lose their CFL or Argos fandom over Kelly, they probably should never watch another NHL game going forward. If we aired everyone’s dirty laundry, there likely isn’t a single pro team you could consciously cheer for if all this truly matters. I could pick on any single team. Let’s do the Cats. They hired and then promoted their GM who was a convicted sexual abuser of a minor! Where was the pitchforks then?

Speaking of Twitter, I have to bring up the 50 Cent situation again. Almost every single Kelly critic, even the most vocal opposers literally went out of their way to praise this concert, which involved an artist currently facing rape accusations. People are full of it. There is no better recent illustration.

This is ridiculous to bring up but I still can't help myself.

Technically if you buy and use a cellphone, you're supporting slavery.

We have laws and courts for a reason. There are very few people in this society who are qualified to judge others striclty on a moral level.

IssuesMcgee wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:59 pm This is ridiculous to bring up but I still can't help myself.

Technically if you buy and use a cellphone, you're supporting slavery.

We have laws and courts for a reason. There are very few people in this society who are qualified to judge others striclty on a moral level.

The entire thing is ridiculous. Nobody has a clue on validity of any of these accusations other than some 3rd party investigation which corroborates half of the accusations. I’m of the opinion the league jumped the gun because of the reactions from a couple of females in executive positions. It still blows my mind that the accuser never went to MLSE HR. HR is there to protect employees. I know the HR department for the bank I work for does.
I’ll say it again, to me, the entire situation was BS.

IssuesMcgee wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:59 pm This is ridiculous to bring up but I still can't help myself.

Technically if you buy and use a cellphone, you're supporting slavery.

We have laws and courts for a reason. There are very few people in this society who are qualified to judge others striclty on a moral level.

The entire thing is ridiculous. Nobody has a clue on validity of any of these accusations other than some 3rd party investigation which corroborates half of the accusations. Now who corroborated these accusations is a mystery. Easily can be dismissed as hearsay.
I’m of the opinion the league jumped the gun because of the reactions from a couple of females in executive positions. It still blows my mind that the accuser never went to MLSE HR. HR is there to protect employees. I know the HR department for the bank I work for does.
I’ll say it again, to me, the entire situation was BS.

What did the NFL Commissioner used to say?

His job was to protect the shield? Was Kelly's decision made to protect the commissioner's office?

I don't know what was the expected outcome here?

We can only hope that the assigned penance is all for the Argos. Surely the league knew that an ambiguous penance would only keep alive the criticisms.

I can understand strong support and opposition.

That is all we need for the franchise at this point in its history, is for half of the fans to stay away because they disagree with the final ruling.

When will we be able to argue about football operations and marketing again?

AngeloV wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:11 pm

IssuesMcgee wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:59 pm This is ridiculous to bring up but I still can't help myself.

Technically if you buy and use a cellphone, you're supporting slavery.

We have laws and courts for a reason. There are very few people in this society who are qualified to judge others striclty on a moral level.

The entire thing is ridiculous. Nobody has a clue on validity of any of these accusations other than some 3rd party investigation which corroborates half of the accusations. I’m of the opinion the league jumped the gun because of the reactions from a couple of females in executive positions. It still blows my mind that the accuser never went to MLSE HR. HR is there to protect employees. I know the HR department for the bank I work for does.
I’ll say it again, to me, the entire situation was BS.

Angelo, let me ask you... you work for the bank and someone makes allegations against you that are entirely BS.... would you settle a lawsuit and accept significant discipline without any grievance or appeal? I highly doubt it, and I base that on not even knowing you in person, but from this forum. You come across as very principled person and as someone who would be unafraid to defend yourself.

So I will say it again.... unfortunately none of know what exactly happened. But something happened, and whatever it was, Kelly is taking the punishment for it, based on his own free will or advice of counsel or whatever. If he satisfies the conditions of the suspension and is allowed to return, and if the team deems that they are willing to take him back, I think that will be good enough for me. I for one am not going to walk away from supporting the Argos over this.

RB957 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:56 pm

Angelo, let me ask you... you work for the bank and someone makes allegations against you that are entirely BS.... would you settle a lawsuit and accept significant discipline without any grievance or appeal? I highly doubt it, and I base that on not even knowing you in person, but from this forum. You come across as very principled person and as someone who would be unafraid to defend yourself.

So I will say it again.... unfortunately none of know what exactly happened. But something happened, and whatever it was, Kelly is taking the punishment for it, based on his own free will or advice of counsel or whatever. If he satisfies the conditions of the suspension and is allowed to return, and if the team deems that they are willing to take him back, I think that will be good enough for me. I for one am not going to walk away from supporting the Argos over this.

We have no way of knowing what was settled. The league had already made up their minds what they were doing. Kelly and the Argos may have just decided to leave it at that, and let the 9 games go without challenging it. We agree on 1 thing. We have no idea what happened in the court. They (the team) may have agreed to pay her a nominal amount and nothing from Kelly directly. I sincerely doubt she got anything near what she was asking for.

As for me settling for a lawsuit, I don't think it would ever come to that. For starters, only public figures and very wealthy people seem to get civil suits brought upon them. That leaves me out.