QBs, so ...

[OV Argo]

... MBT still a question mark - does he return? Dinwiddie & Pinner interviews indicate they have faith in Kelly, but that he needs to earn the job (really hope they are committed to that thinking); only other QB on the current roster is young Ben Holmes (Tarleton State - was a Div II program in US college ball) ?

Wonder if they are working on QB recruitment hard this off-season? When is a signing or two going to happen? Hope no news yet means they are not banking on another CFL retread project (no to Dane Evans or Fajardo types unless they are willing to sign for minimum wage to compete in TC), and a big no to desperately giving big CFL buck$ to faded ego-head Bovine.

Even MBT packs it in and Kelly is the only young QB they have, rather roll with 2 other new young QBs than pay good money to an iffy "experienced" for the sake of it guy. That would take guts though; like when the old Ottawa Rough Riders rolled with rookies Tom Clements & Condredge Holloway decades ago (and they also had a top Canadian college ball QB in camp - Bill Robinson - who according to some reports was the best QB in TC).

[Argo57]

... MBT still a question mark - does he return? Dinwiddie & Pinner interviews indicate they have faith in Kelly, but that he need to earn the job (rally hope they are committed to that thinking); only other QB on the current roster is young Ben Holmes (Tarleton State - was a Div II program in US college ball) ?

Wonder if they are working on QB recruitment hard this off-season? When is a signing or two going to happen? Hope no news yet means they are not banking on another CFL retread project (no to Dane Evans or Fajardo types unless they are willing to sign for minimum wage to compete in TC), and a big no to desperately giving big CFL buck$ to faded ego-head Bovine.

Even MBT packs it in and Kelly is the only young QB they have, rather roll with 2 other new young QBs than pay good money to an iffy "experienced" for the sake of it guy. That would take guts though; like when the old Ottawa Rough Riders rolled with rookies Tom Clements & Condredge Holloway decades ago (and they also had a top Canadian college ball QB in camp - Bill Robinson - who according to some reports was the best QB in TC).

My first choice is to have MBT return and run it back with him and Kelly at QB.
Failing that I would have no issue with the Argos bringing in a QB such as Dane Evans who has experience, has played in some big games, would work well in a dual QB system and above all would benefit from a change of scenery.
Wouldn’t be in favour of relying on 2 relatively inexperienced QB’s.

[OV Argo]

My first choice is to have MBT return and run it back with him and Kelly at QB.
Failing that I would have no issue with the Argos bringing in a QB such as Dane Evans who has experience, has played in some big games, would work well in a dual QB system and above all would benefit from a change of scenery.
Wouldn’t be in favour of relying on 2 relatively inexperienced QB’s.

Problem there is - a CFL experienced guy like Evans (ultra poor play last season at times - just brutal) or Fajardo (panic/lost at times in that dumb Rider offence of last season) are still going to command pretty big CFL buck$, no? So they are going to eat up some $M$ that could be used more wisely elsewhere, AND take reps and development time away from a young QB who might prove way better in the long run.

[paulwoods13]

Obviously I want MBT back, but if he moves on, I want an experienced guy to push Kelly. Definitely NOT Fajardo -- I want no part of him even at minimum wage (which he obviously wouldn't accept anyway). But I'd be quite happy to take Dane Evans, whom I feel is still likely to develop into a decent starter (probably for Sask, if I had to bet).

I think if MBT does move on, we are going to end up with either Arbuckle or Caleb Evans, whichever guy Ott chooses to let go. I'd prefer Arbuckle if it came down to one of those two.

[gilthethrill]

What about Michael O’Conner as #2 behind Kelly if MBT retires as a Grey Cup Champion?

[Argo57]

Problem there is - a CFL experienced guy like Evans (ultra poor play last season at times - just brutal) or Fajardo (panic/lost at times in that dumb Rider offence of last season) are still going to command pretty big CFL buck$, no? So they are going to eat up some $M$ that could be used more wisely elsewhere, AND take reps and development time away from a young QB who might prove way better in the long run.

Would be foolhardy to go into a season with 2 QB’s with limited CFL experience.

[OV Argo]

Would be foolhardy to go into a season with 2 QB’s with limited CFL experience.

You mean like the 75 & 76 Ottawa Rough Riders did ?

[OV Argo]

What about Michael O’Conner as #2 behind Kelly if MBT retires as a Grey Cup Champion?

Pretty obvious the Argo regime that let him go (not the one that originally signed him) would want nothing to do with him?

My bet is he is done in the CFL; after a half of one game serious audition as a starter - replacing the injured Rourke - for BC, they turned away from their supposed #2 very quickly. Meanwhile, the Dom Davis' & Matthew Shlitz types will get umpteen times the CFL playing time chances. Is what it is for Canadian QBs (out of U Sports ball) in the radical league, and ain't gonna change anytime soon it appears. The NFL gets applauded (somewhat) for mostly abandoning their bias against African American QBs, but same old in the CFL.

[AngeloV]

You mean like the 75 & 76 Ottawa Rough Riders did ?

Ah yes. The classic nearly 50 year old reference.


Pretty obvious the Argo regime that let him go (not the one that originally signed him) would want nothing to do with him?



Pinball and even O'Connor himself admit the Argos tried to re-sign him, but he chose Calgary thinking it would be better for his career. I would love to see the Argo bring him back. He has had unfortunate breaks the last 2 years, and I am not convinced Calgary made the right decision choosing Maier over him. If he was given the chance originally over Maier, he may just be the #1 in Calgary right now.

[Argo57]

You mean like the 75 & 76 Ottawa Rough Riders did ?

LOL!
Digging deep for that one OV.

[Argo57]

What about Michael O’Conner as #2 behind Kelly if MBT retires as a Grey Cup Champion?

Wouldn’t mind that scenario at all if MBT retires.

[OV Argo]

LOL!
Digging deep for that one OV.

Yeah, I'd hate for a modern CFL team to aspire to some of the smarts or talent of the CFL past. Might as well bring back leather helmets and ban the forward pass. ;o)

["Issues"Mcgee]

Ideal situation would be to have MBT to come back as starter and to help develop Kelly for the role. I also think bringing in O'Connor if MBT retires is brilliant and the right move.

Please no Dane Evans. I would rather take Fajardo in the very worst case. To be polite, I do not like the way Evans conducts himself when he is not playing well.

[OV Argo]

Ideal situation would be to have MBT to come back as starter and to help develop Kelly for the role. I also think bringing in O'Connor if MBT retires is brilliant and the right move.

Please no Dane Evans. I would rather take Fajardo in the very worst case. To be polite, I do not like the way Evans conducts himself when he is not playing well.

IF it had to come down to the two, I'd take Fajardo as well; at least he has very good mobility / is a run threat - for an OC who could design a package for his skill set; Evans makes too many mistakes and then acts like a cry-baby.

[paulwoods13]

I'd love to know why B.C. seemed to bury O'Connor last year after Rourke got hurt. IIRC, MOC got injured pretty early on, and maybe he was never fully healthy after that, but I suspect he was found wanting for some other reason. Maybe a valid reason, maybe not. But I'd be willing to give him a shot at the backup role here, and see if his potential can ever be unleashed.

[paulwoods13]

Regardless of where they end up this year, I predict that Evans will outperform Fajardo this year and beyond.

[Argo57]

Regardless of where they end up this year, I predict that Evans will outperform Fajardo this year and beyond.

I think a change of scenery would do Evans wonders.

[OV Argo]

I'd love to know why B.C. seemed to bury O'Connor last year after Rourke got hurt. IIRC, MOC got injured pretty early on, and maybe he was never fully healthy after that, but I suspect he was found wanting for some other reason. Maybe a valid reason, maybe not. But I'd be willing to give him a shot at the backup role here, and see if his potential can ever be unleashed.

Said this on the BC forum: O'Connor was only brought in by GOB Campbell because they had Rourke pegged as their starter, and so one of the 7 starting Nationals under the new rules; and O'Connor could sub in for Rourke (if he got nicked in a game; if he was playing lousy; to give him a break in a blow-out game), and Campbell could still maintain his 7 only need apply starters roster then. They might have thought O'Connor was a decent back-up QB, and supposedly he was #2 ahead of Pipkin; but after Rourke went down, and O'Connor started the next game and did not put up awesome like Rourke passing stats ... in all of one half of opportunity, the panic set in about going with a Canadian (mostly U Sports trained QB), so O'Connor was supposedly too injured to play anymore = time to give the job to Pipkin, and then Maciocia gifted the desperate Lions a starting QB in Vernon Adams. It was all over there for O'Connor (maybe he might have been brought back if Rourke had stayed on another season?).

O'Connor will likely be out of CFL work now IMO; though maybe signed as a possible 3rd stringer somewhere.

[paulwoods13]

Except we don't know whether O'Connor was legitimately injured. If he was, the GOB-7-only-need-apply theory doesn't necessarily hold water.

[OV Argo]

Except we don't know whether O'Connor was legitimately injured. If he was, the GOB-7-only-need-apply theory doesn't necessarily hold water.

That's true; but interesting, we never saw any updates on his injury status or questions about their supposed #2 QB returning ?; he was not carried off the field and remained on the sidelines after it happened, and I believe he still dressed for all games after or at least was not on the IR (?).

We'll see if he re-signs in BC or elsewhere in the CFL.

[Antwon]

IF it had to come down to the two, I'd take Fajardo as well; at least he has very good mobility / is a run threat - for an OC who could design a package for his skill set; Evans makes too many mistakes and then acts like a cry-baby.

Just a reminder MBT has thrown his own share of temper tantrums.

[OV Argo]

Just a reminder MBT has thrown his own share of temper tantrums.

Yep; and i don't like that about him, either.

[OV Argo]

And now, 3 Down reporting on supposed trade rumors of Kelly to the green Riders? So, MBT returns, Kelly refuses to wait around as a back-up anymore and demands a trade to QB desperate Riders where he will get all sorts of attention in the football fishbowl there ?

["Issues"Mcgee]

And now, 3 Down reporting on supposed trade rumors of Kelly to the green Riders? So, MBT returns, Kelly refuses to wait around as a back-up anymore and demands a trade to QB desperate Riders where he will get all sorts of attention in the football fishbowl there ?

Listen to the radio interview the article links to. Kelly is not demanding a trade. That article is lousy.

[Argo57]

Listen to the radio interview the article links to. Kelly is not demanding a trade. That article is lousy.

3Down seems to be travelling down the “tabloid journalism” path more and more these days.

[AngeloV]

Agreed, I think a change of scenery would do Evans wonders.

I think Paul was talking about Caleb Evans. I’m with you on Dane Evans.

Paul, personally I don’t get where you think Arbuckle or Evans would be better than Fajardo. Must pre a personal preference here, but I would take Fajardo over both of them any day of the week.

[paulwoods13]

I think Paul was talking about Caleb Evans. I’m with you on Dane Evans.

Paul, personally I don’t get where you think Arbuckle or Evans would be better than Fajardo. Must pre a personal preference here, but I would take Fajardo over both of them any day of the week.

No, I was referring to Dane, and yes, I think either guy would be better than Fajardo. I don't want Fajardo here, period. I'd take Caleb Evans, Shiltz, O'Connor or Prukop over him. I can't stand the guy, basically.

[AngeloV]

No, I was referring to Dane, and yes, I think either guy would be better than Fajardo. I don't want Fajardo here, period. I'd take Caleb Evans, Shiltz, O'Connor or Prukop over him. I can't stand the guy, basically.

I’ll say this with all respect. You’re nuts. Dane Evans is the only one I would take, although I would like to see O’Connor get a shot. The rest are nowhere near as good as Fajardo. But your bias against him has come out with your last sentence, so I will take it with a grain of salt.

[ArgofanIan]

hard to warm up to Former Ticats playing for the ARRGOs because of the rivalry. Banks had some effective plays last year but if he messed up I would tell my son he was from Hamilton. Hope we don't sign Evans... hoping MBT comes back...or we develop someone new ... I am OK with Fajardo or any one of the other guys...

[paulwoods13]

I’ll say this with all respect. You’re nuts. Dane Evans is the only one I would take, although I would like to see O’Connor get a shot. The rest are nowhere near as good as Fajardo. But your bias against him has come out with your last sentence, so I will take it with a grain of salt.

The first online definition I found for "bias" was: "prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." No reference to who is doing such "considering," but FTR I don't see any "unfairness" in my judgment that Fajardo is not a guy I'd want as my team's QB. I'd be comfortable calling it "aversion," certainly. I'm not actually disputing that Fajardo might be "better," on some level, than Caleb, Shiltz or Prukop, but that doesn't make me like him.

[Argoriffic]

Well the other QB will NOT be BLM:

https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor/status/1617896394089713664?s=20

[AngeloV]

The first online definition I found for "bias" was: "prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." No reference to who is doing such "considering," but FTR I don't see any "unfairness" in my judgment that Fajardo is not a guy I'd want as my team's QB. I'd be comfortable calling it "aversion," certainly. I'm not actually disputing that Fajardo might be "better," on some level, than Caleb, Shiltz or Prukop, but that doesn't make me like him.

I was referencing your comment of “I can’t stand the guy, basically”. I see that as a personal bias against him.

[AngeloV]

Well the other QB will NOT be BLM:

https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor/status/1617896394089713664?s=20

No surprise. Hamilton didn’t give up assets to not sign him.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Booooo Levi Mitchell. He's dead to me. Dead. Vendetta!!!!

[ArgoRavi]

The first online definition I found for "bias" was: "prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." No reference to who is doing such "considering," but FTR I don't see any "unfairness" in my judgment that Fajardo is not a guy I'd want as my team's QB. I'd be comfortable calling it "aversion," certainly. I'm not actually disputing that Fajardo might be "better," on some level, than Caleb, Shiltz or Prukop, but that doesn't make me like him.

Paul, do you feel like Fajardo isn't mentally strong enough, given his reaction to the criticism that he has received from Riders fans?

[OV Argo]

So looking forward to seeing Bovine lead the Pussycats to dead last in the East this season; and to the Argo D getting to play against him.

[gilthethrill]

So looking forward to seeing Bovine lead the Pussycats to dead last in the East this season; and to the Argo D getting to play against him.

Last season Chris Jones gifted Hamilton C David Beard, which really seemed to solidify Hamilton’s O line. They really struggled in the middle until then.

[OV Argo]

Last season Chris Jones gifted Hamilton C David Beard, which really seemed to solidify Hamilton’s O line. They really struggled in the middle until then.

Oh, the Ticats have some weapons on offence: receivers like White (the better one), Dunbar, Addison (injured last year), and late season addition Johnson (?) are a pretty good group IMO; and that bigger back Hills was impressive, to team with Thomas-Erlington (best yds/carry average on any RB in the league last season); I just think they are going to be in for a let-down with Bovine missing open targets often, getting sacked a bunch; plus being a bit of an ego-head / me first type that is not much of a leader at the position - his plenty of big game play-off losses in his Stumps career speak volumes IMO; and those were years ago when his arm and game were stronger and younger.

We shall see.

[paulwoods13]

Paul, do you feel like Fajardo isn't mentally strong enough, given his reaction to the criticism that he has received from Riders fans?

Lack of mental toughness and a me-first attitude, for starters.

[Shatto]

The uncertainty of our QB situation is somewhat concerning. It appears there is a fairly reasonable chance that MBT may retire. If that does occur and Kelly attracts any interest from an NFL team, we will have no experienced QB on the roster. Yes, I realize the chances of Kelly flying off to the NFL are not high but the possibility exists.

If MBT does return there is a good chance Kelly, who strongly wants to be a starter, will ask to be traded. If MBT retires and Kelly becomes the team's starter, the team will need a good backup. In either case the Argos will likely need to sign a QB with at least some CFL playing experience.

Caleb Evans, Shiltz and even Prukop are free agents who might fit the bill if they are not signed by their present teams. However, the most experienced QBs who should be available are Dane Evans and Fajardo. Both come with some baggage but both have demonstrated the ability to be a winning QB in the past. Both have, admittedly, shown a lack of mental toughness. However, Fajardo (sorry Paul) would be my choice. There is a proviso, however that either could be attained without giving up very much in a trade. If either of their teams play hard ball and demand too much in return in a trade, I'd go out on a limb and try to trade for Tre Ford.

[ArgoRavi]

Lack of mental toughness and a me-first attitude, for starters.

I understand those concerns about Fajardo but still have hope that he can change in the right situation.


The uncertainty of our QB situation is somewhat concerning. It appears there is a fairly reasonable chance that MBT may retire. If that does occur and Kelly attracts any interest from an NFL team, we will have no experienced QB on the roster. Yes, I realize the chances of Kelly flying off to the NFL are not high but the possibility exists.

If MBT does return there is a good chance Kelly, who strongly wants to be a starter, will ask to be traded. If MBT retires and Kelly becomes the team's starter, the team will need a good backup. In either case the Argos will likely need to sign a QB with at least some CFL playing experience.

Caleb Evans, Shiltz and even Prukop are free agents who might fit the bill if they are not signed by their present teams. However, the most experienced QBs who should be available are Dane Evans and Fajardo. Both come with some baggage but both have demonstrated the ability to be a winning QB in the past. Both have, admittedly, shown a lack of mental toughness. However, Fajardo (sorry Paul) would be my choice. There is a proviso, however that either could be attained without giving up very much in a trade. If either of their teams play hard ball and demand too much in return in a trade, I'd go out on a limb and try to trade for Tre Ford.

You acknowledge that chances are not strong that we would lose Kelly to the NFL. I will go one step further and say that the chances of Kelly landing an NFL contract this off-season are non-existent. He is simply not on that league's radar.

I think that we will have some clarity on the QB situation within the next week or so. If MBT decides to return, great; if he doesn't, then it is Kelly's job to lose. If it's the latter case, then the Argos should sign another veteran QB. I am intrigued with the idea of bringing Michael O'Connor back myself but Cody Fajardo could be a decent fit behind Kelly, although I absolutely understand Paul's concerns.

[argolio]

Fajardo is easily the best of those mentioned if healthy, though I'd be really concerned about his knee. Caleb Evans and Prukop are turnover machines. Dane Evans can't keep emotions in check. Schlitz might actually be the best option for a backup.

I'm assuming O'Connor will stay in BC.

[OV Argo]

Fajardo is easily the best of those mentioned if healthy, though I'd be really concerned about his knee. Caleb Evans and Prukop are turnover machines. Dane Evans can't keep emotions in check. Schlitz might actually be the best option for a backup.

I'm assuming O'Connor will stay in BC.

I think I read BC have signed 2 new American QBs? I'll bet O'Connor is done there and perhaps in the CFL altogether; the Lions could sign Pipkin still as #2 behind Adams and then develop one of the new young guys.

QBs like Shlitz or Prukop are 3rd stringers at best; much rather develop a new guy over proven mediocres. Caleb Evans beat the Argos last season running that pop-gun RedBlacks offence; he's still young and could develop into a solid starter IMO - i'll bet the RedBlacks go with him behind Masoli over average at best Arbuckle.

[gilthethrill]

So if Mitchell gets 500K+ in Hamilton after losing his job in Calgary, if MBT decides he wants to play in 2023, what is he worth after winning a GC as a starter?

[ArgofanIan]

I don't know contract situation ...would think Riders would likely bend over backwards to sign MBT ? He would likely get best deal with them if he is interested ? Not sure he would like the media attention out there ... hoping he returns with us.

[paulwoods13]

IMO the chances of him signing in Regina are zero. If he had to spend another season apart from his loved ones, why would he do it in a city with no direct flight connections to anywhere other than Calgary and Winnipeg? And I don't see his partner being interested in bunking down in the middle of the Prairies for six months.

[AngeloV]

IMO the chances of him signing in Regina are zero. If he had to spend another season apart from his loved ones, why would he do it in a city with no direct flight connections to anywhere other than Calgary and Winnipeg? And I don't see his partner being interested in bunking down in the middle of the Prairies for six months.

From what I understand he was apart from his family for most of the 2022 season. She is going to be in California regardless due to her professional commitments, so why would it make a difference where MBT played? It is the major reaso he is contemplating retirement—being away from family. Having said that, I want him back here.

[paulwoods13]

From what I understand he was apart from his family for most of the 2022 season. She is going to be in California regardless due to her professional commitments, so why would it make a difference where MBT played? It is the major reaso he is contemplating retirement—being away from family. Having said that, I want him back here.

Yes, he was apart from his family for most of the season, and I would bet he is not planning to ever do that again. You can't get back a kid's age 2 year (or any year in a kid's development). If, as you suggest, his partner will be in California, do you really think he would choose to be in the CFL city from which it is hardest to get to California?

["Issues"Mcgee]

Yes, he was apart from his family for most of the season, and I would bet he is not planning to ever do that again. You can't get back a kid's age 2 year (or any year in a kid's development). If, as you suggest, his partner will be in California, do you really think he would choose to be in the CFL city from which it is hardest to get to California?

The possibility of more money and a fresh start with a new and larger fan base who won't torture him. I don't think it's out of the question.

I hope he stays with the Argos, just playing devil's advocate.

[paulwoods13]

The possibility of more money and a fresh start with a new and larger fan base who won't torture him. I don't think it's out of the question.

I hope he stays with the Argos, just playing devil's advocate.

Make no mistake, so do I. I just think it's extremely unlikely.

[Will]

The possibility of more money and a fresh start with a new and larger fan base who won't torture him. I don't think it's out of the question.

I hope he stays with the Argos, just playing devil's advocate.

The pressure is greater in Saskatchewan though.

[Shatto]

It does appear MBT is going to retire. It would have been exciting to see him go head to head with BLM but it does not seem to be in the books. The only team I could see MBT signing with is BC. It is the closest city to his family in California and there are direct flights. Doubt it will happen but maybe a remote possibility.

Glad to see Smith re-signed, now hopefully Gittens Jr will be next.

[OV Argo]

It does appear MBT is going to retire. It would have been exciting to see him go head to head with BLM but it does not seem to be in the books. The only team I could see MBT signing with is BC. It is the closest city to his family in California and there are direct flights. Doubt it will happen but maybe a remote possibility.

Glad to see Smith re-signed, now hopefully Gittens Jr will be next.


Can't see MBT signing in BC when they have Adams as the starter - they're not going to pay starter money for 2 QBs and I really doubt they would view MBT as an upgrade. The only real options for MBT to return and get starter buck$, is IMO back with the Argos or in QB desperate Rider land - if he has the ego and really wants a challenge, helping improve the Riders where he would be the center of attention in a spot where CFL football matters so much more, might tempt him?

Could also see him signing in the USFL - maybe - but they don't have any teams close to California and the pay is way less (i think?) than he could get as a CFL starter.

[gilthethrill]

The possibility of more money and a fresh start with a new and larger fan base who won't torture him. I don't think it's out of the question.

I hope he stays with the Argos, just playing devil's advocate.

Would MBT, at this stage of his career want to play for a Riders team that is in turmoil? Dickenson was only retained due to the “Operations Cap”,(Good move Randy) the OC wasn’t near the top of the hiring list, and the O-line is in shambles. Doesn’t sound very tempting. He has a good situation in Toronto if he does in fact resume his playing career.

[Argo57]

Make no mistake, so do I. I just think it's extremely unlikely.

I think it is very likely MBT plays football in 2023 and definitely think the Argos are a strong possibility.

[Will]

It does appear MBT is going to retire. It would have been exciting to see him go head to head with BLM but it does not seem to be in the books. The only team I could see MBT signing with is BC. It is the closest city to his family in California and there are direct flights. Doubt it will happen but maybe a remote possibility.

Glad to see Smith re-signed, now hopefully Gittens Jr will be next.

Based on what? See Farhan's tweet below, and granted that's speculation. I wish he'd make up his mind though.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FarhanLaljiTSN</a> thinks at this point, <a href="https://twitter.com/The_Real_McLeod?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@The_Real_McLeod</a> wants to come back. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Argos</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/therealballsy?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@therealballsy</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/sportscage?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@sportscage</a></p>&mdash; CFL News (@CFL_News) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFL_News/status/1618961285890314241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Antwon]

Based on what? See Farhan's tweet below, and granted that's speculation. I wish he'd make up his mind though.


Yep enough with the drama! <iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.htm l?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.argofans.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

[Treblecharger1]

McLeods Instagram story from last night makes it seem like the plan is to play as well. We shall see

[Argo57]

McLeods Instagram story from last night makes it seem like the plan is to play as well. We shall see

I saw that as well, I’ve said all along I think he’ll be back.

[Antwon]

I saw that as well, I’ve said all along I think he’ll be back.

Couple of things he has to consider, it should be an open competition to be the starter between him and Kelly. Second is if MBT is the starter and things aren't going well, Dinwiddie may be quicker to make a change. And we've seen MBT doesn't always handle that well.

[Argo57]

So if Mitchell gets 500K+ in Hamilton after losing his job in Calgary, if MBT decides he wants to play in 2023, what is he worth after winning a GC as a starter?

I’d say he has earned a $500k contract at this point.

[Argo57]

Couple of things he has to consider, it should be an open competition to be the starter between him and Kelly. Second is if MBT is the starter and things aren't going well, Dinwiddie may be quicker to make a change. And we've seen MBT doesn't always handle that well.

If MBT signs with the Argos it will be as the starting QB, having said that Dinwiddie would probably find a way to get Kelly more playing time to push along his development.

[ArgoZ]

I’d say he has earned a $500k contract at this point.

I think he’s earned that too. However, I don’t think the Argos can pay him that and still sign all their desired free agents. If he would re-sign for around $400k again, which I think he would, that would help.

[Argo57]

I think he’s earned that too. However, I don’t think the Argos can pay him that and still sign all their desired free agents. If he would re-sign for around $400k again, which I think he would, that would help.

MBT is seriously considering retirement, I personally don’t see him signing at a lower salary than what other “top tier” QB’s have signed for (he’s earned the right to be paid as such).
Argos have already cut ties with Brandon Banks and there remains a possibility that Andrew Harris and Ja’Gared Davis may not return freeing up some additional cap room.

[Stevoman]

I agree that based on his latest Instagram post that MBT is definitely playing this year...or at least entertaining offers. I'd like him back along with Kelly but if they can't afford him, I'd try to bring back Arbuckle to compete with Kelly.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree that based on his latest Instagram post that MBT is definitely playing this year...or at least entertaining offers. I'd like him back along with Kelly but if they can't afford him, I'd try to bring back Arbuckle to compete with Kelly.

Arbuckle's stints in Edmonton and Ottawa have turned me off of him. He is far too careless with the football and I have doubts about his ability to change that.

[paulwoods13]

Arbuckle's stints in Edmonton and Ottawa have turned me off of him. He is far too careless with the football and I have doubts about his ability to change that.

Beggars can't be choosers. If MBT does not return, we will need an experienced QB to back up/compete with Kelly. Arbuckle has been lukewarm at best on his past three teams, but he has experience in the CFL, and the dearth of good QBs means someone is going to give him another contract. I'd take him over (or at least equal to) some other backup types who are kicking around these days.

[ArgoGabe22]

Arbuckle's stints in Edmonton and Ottawa have turned me off of him. He is far too careless with the football and I have doubts about his ability to change that.

He seemed to have improved late into last season. He can still be a serviceable backup. Much better than Watford.

[gilthethrill]

He seemed to have improved late into last season. He can still be a serviceable backup. Much better than Watford.

Arbuckle cut back on his turnovers late last year when he started to dump the ball off short rather than throwing down field. Never want to see him in an Argo uniform again. Maybe a return to Calgary would be best for his career.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Arbuckle cut back on his turnovers late last year when he started to dump the ball off short rather than throwing down field. Never want to see him in an Argo uniform again. Maybe a return to Calgary would be best for his career.

The Argos beat the Bombers in 2021 with Arbuckle as the starting QB and he played well that game.

[gilthethrill]

The Argos beat the Bombers in 2021 with Arbuckle as the starting QB and he played well that game.

The Argos did beat the Bombers on that sunny afternoon in BMO Field. Arbuckle let the opponent back in the game with a careless INT in the later stages of the game. What has he done since?

["Issues"Mcgee]

The Argos did beat the Bombers on that sunny afternoon in BMO Field. Arbuckle let the opponent back in the game with a careless INT in the later stages of the game. What has he done since?

Stuck on two of the worst teams I have ever seen in my lifetime.

An Argos QB threw a careless INT that almost blew the game? Never seen it.

[OV Argo]

Arbuckle had 2 chances to beat the Argos last year, late in the season, with the RedBlacks play-off lives at stake and at home - he lost both games including a blow-out. Caleb Evans QB'd the RedBlacks to a win vs. the Argos earlier last season.

Arbuckle will get repeat CFL chances, due to his passport and CFL "experience"; I hope another chance is not with the Argos.

[AngeloV]

Stuck on two of the worst teams I have ever seen in my lifetime.

An Argos QB threw a careless INT that almost blew the game? Never seen it.

There was a reason the Argos chose MBT over Arbuckle even though Arbuckle was brought in to be the starter. He was a turnover machine.

[gilthethrill]

Stuck on two of the worst teams I have ever seen in my lifetime.

An Argos QB threw a careless INT that almost blew the game? Never seen it.

I had to watch the recap of that game. I stand corrected, it was an Arbuckle fumble that was returned for a TD by Winnipeg.

[ArgoRavi]

I had to watch the recap of that game. I stand corrected, it was an Arbuckle fumble that was returned for a TD by Winnipeg.

As I recall, Arbuckle put the ball on the turf more than once in that game but the Argos happened to recover the majority of those fumbles. Then he almost gave a home game away in September of that season against the Ticats with one of the most careless INTs I have ever seen late in that game.

["Issues"Mcgee]

There was a reason the Argos chose MBT over Arbuckle even though Arbuckle was brought in to be the starter. He was a turnover machine.

Arbuckle had one less interception than MBT in the same amount of games played this past season. I'm not saying Arbuckle is better than MBT, I'm just not sure when the Argos suddenly adopted a standard of never turning the ball over. This is news to me.

[gilthethrill]

Arbuckle had one less interception than MBT in the same amount of games played this past season. I'm not saying Arbuckle is better than MBT, I'm just not sure when the Argos suddenly adopted a standard of never turning the ball over. This is news to me.

But if you look at pass attempts, MBT threw the ball 579 times compared to Arbuckles 423. Arbuckle did not exactly find the endzone much with only 6 TD passes. Not a stellar ratio.

[paulwoods13]

Again, beggars can't be choosers. If MBT walks, someone experienced is gonna be needed to back up or compete with Kelly. Who's a better choice than Arbuckle? Wouldn't it make more sense to bring in someone who at least knows the system than someone who doesn't?

None of the backup types heading into free agency are clearly superior to any others, IMO. Is Arbuckle better or worse than Caleb Evans, Shiltz, Prukop, O'Connor, Pipkin? Who knows? But he does have one advantage in that he has played before in Dinwiddie's system.

[AngeloV]

Again, beggars can't be choosers. If MBT walks, someone experienced is gonna be needed to back up or compete with Kelly. Who's a better choice than Arbuckle? Wouldn't it make more sense to bring in someone who at least knows the system than someone who doesn't?

None of the backup types heading into free agency are clearly superior to any others, IMO. Is Arbuckle better or worse than Caleb Evans, Shiltz, Prukop, O'Connor, Pipkin? Who knows? But he does have one advantage in that he has played before in Dinwiddie's system.

If you can overlook your hatred for Fajardo, it’s pretty clear he or Dane Evans would be the best to bring in to compete with Kelly, assuming neither ends up in Montreal or Saskatchewan as the starter. Arbuckle is not worth a look IMO.

[Will]

I think there are several options here:

1. Take the BC approach from 2022 where you go with Chad Kelly as QB1 and try and build the best team around him. BC did this by having Nathan Rourke start the season without a proven background. Yes, they brought Pipkin in, but he's not someone you want starting long-term. They acquired Vernon Adams when Rourke went down.

2. You take the approach that Kelly isn't to be anointed the starter and bring in a veteran to compete. All depends on what MBT wants to do here and whether he can be brought back at a reasonable salary. With this you run the risk of upsetting Kelly.

I have no objections to Cody Fajardo being brought in as an option under #2. I don't think Arbuckle is at the same level at this stage in his career.

[paulwoods13]

If you can overlook your hatred for Fajardo, it’s pretty clear he or Dane Evans would be the best to bring in to compete with Kelly, assuming neither ends up in Montreal or Saskatchewan as the starter. Arbuckle is not worth a look IMO.\

It's not hatred, AV. I just don't think Fajardo has the kind of leadership qualities I value. I do like Evans, both as a QB and as a leader, and would bring him in for sure (at a price lower than what he was paid last season) if MBT is not back. I'm having a hard time seeing a scenario where both of those guys are available -- I think Evans ends up in Sask, or if Harris goes to Sask, Fajardo or Evans ends up in Montreal. So it's possible we'll have one of them as an option, as well as the second-tier guys discussed earlier. I didn't love Arbuckle when he was here -- in fact, I was thrilled when RD concluded MBT was the better QB. But I still think Arbuckle has something to offer in this league, and I still prefer him to most of the other second-tier guys (possible exception Shiltz) and to Fajardo.

[AngeloV]

\

It's not hatred, AV. I just don't think Fajardo has the kind of leadership qualities I value. I do like Evans, both as a QB and as a leader, and would bring him in for sure (at a price lower than what he was paid last season) if MBT is not back. I'm having a hard time seeing a scenario where both of those guys are available -- I think Evans ends up in Sask, or if Harris goes to Sask, Fajardo or Evans ends up in Montreal. So it's possible we'll have one of them as an option, as well as the second-tier guys discussed earlier. I didn't love Arbuckle when he was here -- in fact, I was thrilled when RD concluded MBT was the better QB. But I still think Arbuckle has something to offer in this league, and I still prefer him to most of the other second-tier guys (possible exception Shiltz) and to Fajardo.

Well, I’ll take Fajardo over any of them any day. Saskatchewan was a tire fire in 2022, due to a lack of leadership by the coaching staff which allowed the Garrett Marino and Duke Williams situations to tear that team apart. Fajardo also played injured through most of the season. In his 2 healthy seasons the team was a combined 22-10, and lost playoff games to the eventual GC champs each year.
Not sure where you get this whole thing about leadership. His detractors said the same thing about MBT. I disagreed with them, and I disagree with you on Fajardo.

[Scooter McCray]

Hopefully the Argos know MBTs intentions on whether he wants to keep playing. If he is planning on playing he should be working out by now. If he is coming back he will use his free agent status to secure the best deal he can - hopefully from Toronto. Similar to what Harris is doing to Montreal. On the surface MBT seems like more of a team player than Trevor Harris (who bailed on good teams in Toronto, Ottawa). Toronto is the best situation for him to continue to be successful. He's like Rocky Balboa - now that he has a career finally in his Thirties - is it over or will he continue to rack up championships?

[gilthethrill]

Hopefully the Argos know MBTs intentions on whether he wants to keep playing. If he is planning on playing he should be working out by now. If he is coming back he will use his free agent status to secure the best deal he can - hopefully from Toronto. Similar to what Harris is doing to Montreal. On the surface MBT seems like more of a team player than Trevor Harris (who bailed on good teams in Toronto, Ottawa). Toronto is the best situation for him to continue to be successful. He's like Rocky Balboa - now that he has a career finally in his Thirties - is it over or will he continue to rack up championships?

I remember Harris leaving the Argos after the 2015 season because Milanovich benched him due to poor play down the stretch in 2015 in favour of Ricky Ray who was coming off injury. Harris has racked up Championships? Only as a backup no?
No thanks to Harris Big Time.

[Scooter McCray]

I remember Harris leaving the Argos after the 2015 season because Milanovich benched him due to poor play down the stretch in 2015 in favour of Ricky Ray who was coming off injury. Harris has racked up Championships? Only as a backup no?
No thanks to Harris Big Time.I was referring to MBT to keep racking up championships here in Toronto. Harris has not won any Grey Cups as a starter. Only 2 as backup. He should have beat Calgary in 2018 in the GC. He played poorly that day. On the heels of a record setting performance in the EF against Hamilton. Calgary barely showed up to win that GC

[gilthethrill]

I was referring to MBT to keep racking up championships here in Toronto. Harris has not won any Grey Cups as a starter. Only 2 as backup. He should have beat Calgary in 2018 in the GC. He played poorly that day. On the heels of a record setting performance in the EF against Hamilton. Calgary barely showed up to win that GC

Got it. Totally thought you were referring to TH. That late bomb to Ellingson in the 2018 EF is one to remember. Especially when it happened to Hamilton.

[Scooter McCray]

Got it. Totally thought you were referring to TH. That late bomb to Ellingson in the 2018 EF is one to remember. Especially when it happened to Hamilton.That's was the 2016 EF, when Burris hit Ellingson. The 2018 EF Harris destroyed Hamilton. It wasn't close. I think he threw 4 TD passes, maybe more. And huge yardage. It was a playoff record of some kind...TD passes, yardage or completion percentage

[Scooter McCray]

That's was the 2016 EF, when Burris hit Ellingson. The 2018 EF Harris destroyed Hamilton. It wasn't close. I think he threw 4 TD passes, maybe more. And huge yardage. It was a playoff record of some kind...TD passes, yardage or completion percentageSorry the Burris to Ellingson game winner was the 2015 EF, and they lost GC to Edmonton. Following year 2016 EF Burris beats Edmonton in EF, and then beats Calgary at BMO IN GC

[Rich]

My ideal QB scenario would be #1 Chad Kelly #2 (or 1b) Dane Evans #3 The best prospect they can find.

I like Fajardo he’s a leader and a total-effort guy like MBT, but he needs to carry the ball to be effective, and I think he’s starting to show some wear-and-tear. Evans is 2 years younger with more potential improvement. I don’t think Condell’s offence did him any favours, and who knows what a couple of years under Coach QB Whisperer might do.

As for a quality #3 prospect, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rourke situation convinces more higher-end NCAA QBs to give the CFL a go. I think it would be great for the League. I will have no problem if Kelly tears it up, wins another Cup, and then leaves for the NFL, as long as we’ve got some quality potential behind him. NEXT!

[Argo57]

Let’s see how this plays out with MBT.

https://3downnation.com/2023/02/03/argos-qb-mcleod-bethel-thompson-planning-to-play-in-2023-will-only-sign-with-argos-if-its-in-cfl-report/

[Argo57]

My ideal QB scenario would be #1 Chad Kelly #2 (or 1b) Dane Evans #3 The best prospect they can find.

I like Fajardo he’s a leader and a total-effort guy like MBT, but he needs to carry the ball to be effective, and I think he’s starting to show some wear-and-tear. Evans is 2 years younger with more potential improvement. I don’t think Condell’s offence did him any favours, and who knows what a couple of years under Coach QB Whisperer might do.

As for a quality #3 prospect, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rourke situation convinces more higher-end NCAA QBs to give the CFL a go. I think it would be great for the League. I will have no problem if Kelly tears it up, wins another Cup, and then leaves for the NFL, as long as we’ve got some quality potential behind him. NEXT!

I might be crazy but my ideal scenario would be to run it back with the QB combination that just won the championship.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Let’s see how this plays out with MBT.

https://3downnation.com/2023/02/03/argos-qb-mcleod-bethel-thompson-planning-to-play-in-2023-will-only-sign-with-argos-if-its-in-cfl-report/

My biggest takeaway from this article is the 3DN staff has definitely been reading Paul Woods' posts on here.

[paulwoods13]

It's great that MBT has apparently confirmed his only CFL choice would be Toronto, but I still think it's unrealistic to think he will be back here. It's interesting (and not surprising to me) that he still wants to play football -- why wouldn't he, given how well he has played the past two seasons? The question is, if it's not the Argos/CFL, where? I don't see him playing in the USFL, and XFL seems to be out of the question given that they are already in camp. Might he find an NFL team willing to have a look at him? I think that's a distinct possibility, despite his age. He doesn't have as many hard miles on him as most 34-year-olds, and it's increasingly evident that there's a shortage of decent backup QBs down south. IMO he is unquestionably better than Josh Johnson and Case Keenum, to name two 30somethings who keep getting jobs down there. If the Raiders, for instance, want a veteran after they jettison David Carr, MBT might be an enticing guy to consider. He definitely has NFL arm strength, and more than half a dozen teams liked his potential enough to sign him several years ago. Obviously he's not gonna be considered as a potential starter at this point, but if he managed to get onto a roster and get some game action, I could easily see him becoming a guy some team would be comfortable using as at least a bridge to the next young guy. All pretty unlikely, I concede. But if anyone can defy the odds, it's MBT.

[gilthethrill]

It's great that MBT has apparently confirmed his only CFL choice would be Toronto, but I still think it's unrealistic to think he will be back here. It's interesting (and not surprising to me) that he still wants to play football -- why wouldn't he, given how well he has played the past two seasons? The question is, if it's not the Argos/CFL, where? I don't see him playing in the USFL, and XFL seems to be out of the question given that they are already in camp. Might he find an NFL team willing to have a look at him? I think that's a distinct possibility, despite his age. He doesn't have as many hard miles on him as most 34-year-olds, and it's increasingly evident that there's a shortage of decent backup QBs down south. IMO he is unquestionably better than Josh Johnson and Case Keenum, to name two 30somethings who keep getting jobs down there. If the Raiders, for instance, want a veteran after they jettison David Carr, MBT might be an enticing guy to consider. He definitely has NFL arm strength, and more than half a dozen teams liked his potential enough to sign him several years ago. Obviously he's not gonna be considered as a potential starter at this point, but if he managed to get onto a roster and get some game action, I could easily see him becoming a guy some team would be comfortable using as at least a bridge to the next young guy. All pretty unlikely, I concede. But if anyone can defy the odds, it's MBT.

Did MBT not check out NFL options a couple years ago and found there was no interest? Agreed he (along with most starting CFL QBs) are better than those career hang on QBs in the NFL collecting paycheques. I doubt there is sudden NFL interest 2 years later.

[OV Argo]

Did MBT not check out NFL options a couple years ago and found there was no interest? Agreed he (along with most starting CFL QBs) are better than those career hang on QBs in the NFL collecting paycheques. I doubt there is sudden NFL interest 2 years later.


He can take his time this NFL off-season to see if there is any interest, and still have the Argos to fall back on? Kinda leaves the Argos hangin' in the meantime and they may have to make a FA decision on another QB; and if that happens, the word might be to him, sorry, we moved on ?

[paulwoods13]

That's a risk for sure, and I'm betting it's one he is prepared to take.

[paulwoods13]

Did MBT not check out NFL options a couple years ago and found there was no interest? Agreed he (along with most starting CFL QBs) are better than those career hang on QBs in the NFL collecting paycheques. I doubt there is sudden NFL interest 2 years later.

1. He's better, and more proven, than he was in 2020.

2. The.shortage of backup-calibre quarterbacks might have been exacerbated somewhat by the emergence of two new leagues. While guys from both will be able to sign with NFL teams, I don't think they will be able to participate in OTAs, which is less than ideal for QBs.

3. MBT is not the type to care about conventional thinking. If he believes he can play in the NFL, I expect he will pursue it. (Knowing that he has achieved what he wanted in Canada, and has a great life outside of football.)

[OV Argo]

And I wouldn't blame him at all for hoping to get another NFL shot; and thank him for his Argo service. ALL CFL players would take the shot at an NFL gig if they could get it. A lot of them have little chance though, even if they are so-called good enough.

Nathan Rourke and MBT both ending up in the NFL next season would be interesting, and something that hasn't happened (CFL QBs wanted by the NFL) in quite some time (the example of a running option QB like Strevler is an exception). Collaros could have easily been an NFL QB (2nd stringer or maybe progresses to starter) IMO if he had been given a call a few years ago.

[Rich]

Nathan Rourke and MBT both ending up in the NFL next season would be interesting.

Yup, and what would be really interesting and deeply ironic is if MBT replaces Baker Mayfield as the LA Rams backup. Could happen!

[Rich]

I might be crazy but my ideal scenario would be to run it back with the QB combination that just won the championship.

I’d love to see MBT back too but I’m assuming as we all should that he won’t be back.

[ARGOMAN 27]

I hear he wants to return to the Double Blue only.

[gilthethrill]

Again, I don’t see where all this sudden NFL interest in MBT is coming from.

[paulwoods13]

Again, I don’t see where all this sudden NFL interest in MBT is coming from.

Whether or not there is NFL interest in him is debatable and remains to be seen. I think it's certainly possible an NFL team would consider signing him, albeit with no guarantees. What's not debatable, IMO, is that he continues to have a dream of playing in the NFL, and he's going to keep pursuing that dream a while longer. Who can blame him for pursuing his dream as long as possible?

Here's what I think is going to happen. He's going to agree to terms with the Argos on a contract that will pay him something in the range of $30,000 per game (which is about what Bo is making this year). He'll sign it if and only if he fails to land an NFL job and the Argos have a need for him. They will start the season with Kelly at QB while MBT is in an NFL camp somewhere. If he makes the NFL, great for him, and we still have Kelly. If he doesn't make the NFL, he can come back to the Argos for the last seven or eight games if he's needed here, say if Kelly gets hurt or does not perform to the required level. It's a risk for him that Argos won't need him at that point, but he will see that as a risk worth taking in pursuit of his dream. And if it ends up he does come back here, it's a win for everyone (possibly excepting Kelly).

[Argo57]

Whether or not there is NFL interest in him is debatable and remains to be seen. I think it's certainly possible an NFL team would consider signing him, albeit with no guarantees. What's not debatable, IMO, is that he continues to have a dream of playing in the NFL, and he's going to keep pursuing that dream a while longer. Who can blame him for pursuing his dream as long as possible?

Here's what I think is going to happen. He's going to agree to terms with the Argos on a contract that will pay him something in the range of $30,000 per game (which is about what Bo is making this year). He'll sign it if and only if he fails to land an NFL job and the Argos have a need for him. They will start the season with Kelly at QB while MBT is in an NFL camp somewhere. If he makes the NFL, great for him, and we still have Kelly. If he doesn't make the NFL, he can come back to the Argos for the last seven or eight games if he's needed here, say if Kelly gets hurt or does not perform to the required level. It's a risk for him that Argos won't need him at that point, but he will see that as a risk worth taking in pursuit of his dream. And if it ends up he does come back here, it's a win for everyone (possibly excepting Kelly).

That would be a hard “no” to that plan.
Argos need to know what his plans are before free agency and react.
Too many variables that could adversely impact the Argos season with your scenario.

[paulwoods13]

That would be a hard “no” to that plan.
Argos need to know what his plans are before free agency and react.
Too many variables that could adversely impact the Argos season with your scenario.

So you're saying the Argos will simply walk away from him unless he's willing to sign in the next two weeks? I don't see either of those things happening.

[OV Argo]

So you're saying the Argos will simply walk away from him unless he's willing to sign in the next two weeks? I don't see either of those things happening.


Might not walk away, but if he's saying wait for me while I hang around for an NFL sniff, then I would say adios amigo, just out of principle: you're committed to the CFL for a full season. Maybe the Argos should tear up K. Gittens contract mid way thru the season if an NFL team comes calling for receiver help ?

[Will]

So you're saying the Argos will simply walk away from him unless he's willing to sign in the next two weeks? I don't see either of those things happening.

Pinball won't.

[paulwoods13]

Might not walk away, but if he's saying wait for me while I hang around for an NFL sniff, then I would say adios amigo, just out of principle: you're committed to the CFL for a full season.

I actually think they might be attracted to the idea of him pursuing his NFL dream, then coming back here if he fails to make it. They save more than a half-season of their biggest salary (and can spend that money elsewhere), get a good look at Kelly for 10-12 games, and might have a proven vet available if needed after Labour Day. The risk to him is that they don't need him after all; the risk to them is that he becomes unavailable if they do need him. Shared risk/reward. If they were to do this, they'd
need to find an experienced QB to back up/challenge Kelly from the start of the season. Would likely have to focus on lower-tier guys like Caleb E, Pipkin or Prukop, probably couldn't get/afford a Shiltz in this scenario.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I actually think they might be attracted to the idea of him pursuing his NFL dream, then coming back here if he fails to make it. They save more than a half-season of their biggest salary (and can spend that money elsewhere), get a good look at Kelly for 10-12 games, and might have a proven vet available if needed after Labour Day. The risk to him is that they don't need him after all; the risk to them is that he becomes unavailable if they do need him. Shared risk/reward. If they were to do this, they'd
need to find an experienced QB to back up/challenge Kelly from the start of the season. Would likely have to focus on lower-tier guys like Caleb E, Pipkin or Prukop, probably couldn't get/afford a Shiltz in this scenario.

My only question is how confident should we be in MBT after missing 10 or 12 games? Depending on what happens throughout the league between now and then, there is no guarantee that even taking MBT back would be the best option. A lot can change in half a season.

[Argo57]

Might not walk away, but if he's saying wait for me while I hang around for an NFL sniff, then I would say adios amigo, just out of principle: you're committed to the CFL for a full season. Maybe the Argos should tear up K. Gittens contract mid way thru the season if an NFL team comes calling for receiver help ?

I agree OV, the Argonauts currently only have Chad Kelly and Ben Holmes under contract heading into free agency, if MBT truly is not committed to a return to the Argos then move on with adding an experienced vet QB, the show must go on.

[argolio]

That would be a hard “no” to that plan.
Argos need to know what his plans are before free agency and react.
Too many variables that could adversely impact the Argos season with your scenario.I agree. If not by free agency, then certainly soon after.

[Antwon]

That would be a hard “no” to that plan.
Argos need to know what his plans are before free agency and react.
Too many variables that could adversely impact the Argos season with your scenario.

I understand the logic from a football perspective and bringing him back in Sept if they need him. But lean to the "No" side of things now. You need your plan in place to sign free agents. And some will want to know the QB situation.
Also the Argos are trying to get a foot hold in the Toronto market, and revolving QB's does not help at all. Especially if that's the known plan.

[Argo57]

I actually think they might be attracted to the idea of him pursuing his NFL dream, then coming back here if he fails to make it. They save more than a half-season of their biggest salary (and can spend that money elsewhere), get a good look at Kelly for 10-12 games, and might have a proven vet available if needed after Labour Day. The risk to him is that they don't need him after all; the risk to them is that he becomes unavailable if they do need him. Shared risk/reward. If they were to do this, they'd
need to find an experienced QB to back up/challenge Kelly from the start of the season. Would likely have to focus on lower-tier guys like Caleb E, Pipkin or Prukop, probably couldn't get/afford a Shiltz in this scenario.

Defending champs trying to repeat “might be attracted to the idea” of their starting QB pursuing his NFL dream while running razor thin at QB for the majority of the 2023 season?
Simply foolhardy to take such a gamble at the most important position on a football team IMO.

[Argo57]

I understand the logic from a football perspective and bringing him back in Sept if they need him. But lean to the "No" side of things now. You need your plan in place to sign free agents. And some will want to know the QB situation.
Also the Argos are trying to get a foot hold in the Toronto market, and revolving QB's does not help at all. Especially if that's the known plan.

I agree Antwon, I’d love to see MBT return but the Argos shouldn’t sit back and let viable QB options sign elsewhere waiting on a “maybe I’ll return”.
Too risky IMO.

["Issues"Mcgee]

And another thing. How come self-absorption and a desire to play in the NFL is so wrong if Kelly does it but inspirational if MBT does it?

[argolio]

And another thing. How come self-absorption and a desire to play in the NFL is so wrong if Kelly does it but inspirational if MBT does it?NFL is pretty desperate for backup QBs these days. Any CFL free agent QB should at least talk to his agent about pursuing the NFL.

[paulwoods13]

And another thing. How come self-absorption and a desire to play in the NFL is so wrong if Kelly does it but inspirational if MBT does it?

I don't know who's talking about anyone being self-absorbed, but as far as wanting to play in the NFL: Kelly is still under contract to the Argos for another year. MBT is about to become a free agent. I think that's a pretty sizeable difference.

[AngeloV]

So you're saying the Argos will simply walk away from him unless he's willing to sign in the next two weeks? I don't see either of those things happening.

They may not fully walk away, but they can’t guarantee they would bring him back. If he’s not signed by the 13th, on the 14th they need to conduct business as if he wasn’t coming back. I’m as big a backer of MBT as there is, but you need commitment. You can look no further than the Green Bay Packers to see that Aaron Rogers non committed attitude had their best receiver leave and it greatly affected that team this year (not that I complained about it).

[AngeloV]

I don't know who's talking about anyone being self-absorbed, but as far as wanting to play in the NFL: Kelly is still under contract to the Argos for another year. MBT is about to become a free agent. I think that's a pretty sizeable difference.

Under contract but free to look for an opportunity as per the window agreement.

[paulwoods13]

Defending champs trying to repeat “might be attracted to the idea” of their starting QB pursuing his NFL dream while running razor thin at QB for the majority of the 2023 season?
Simply foolhardy to take such a gamble at the most important position on a football team IMO.

Yes, I believe the defending champs might embrace the idea of leaving the door open for MBT to come back later over the idea of giving him a sign-now-or-else ultimatum. Especially because they are apparently high on Kelly, and might not believe they truly need MBT (or any starting-calibre veteran) to succeed in 2023.

As far as this being a gamble goes, the other guy at this table holds all the cards. They can't force him to come back if he has other plans. I suppose they could put all their chips in on Harris instead, but I don't see that happening.

[paulwoods13]

My only question is how confident should we be in MBT after missing 10 or 12 games? Depending on what happens throughout the league between now and then, there is no guarantee that even taking MBT back would be the best option. A lot can change in half a season.

How confident should we be in Kelly after a few dozen CFL snaps? Lots can and will happen between now and September and there are no guarantees of anything, regardless of who the Argos' Week 1 starter is. I don't see the prospect of a player missing a big chunk of the season as any sort of impediment. It didn't hurt Ryan Hunter, or the team, that he didn't arrive until September last year, and he had to learn a whole new offence, yard off the ball, etc.

[paulwoods13]

Under contract but free to look for an opportunity as per the window agreement.

I don't condemn anyone for wanting to play in the NFL. As OV said earlier, every single player in the CFL would jump at the chance. But I would prefer that the person who aspires to play the most important position on the team keep his lobbying for an NFL job private while under contract. Probably makes me old-fashioned.

[paulwoods13]

They may not fully walk away, but they can’t guarantee they would bring him back. If he’s not signed by the 13th, on the 14th they need to conduct business as if he wasn’t coming back. I’m as big a backer of MBT as there is, but you need commitment. You can look no further than the Green Bay Packers to see that Aaron Rogers non committed attitude had their best receiver leave and it greatly affected that team this year (not that I complained about it).

You are absolutely right -- there could not be any guarantee to him. As I said above, he would be risking the possibility that the team doesn't need or want him later. I think he'd be prepared to take that risk, and accept whatever consequences ensue.

[AngeloV]

I don't condemn anyone for wanting to play in the NFL. As OV said earlier, every single player in the CFL would jump at the chance. But I would prefer that the person who aspires to play the most important position on the team keep his lobbying for an NFL job private while under contract. Probably makes me old-fashioned.

I agree with you. I’ve said the same thing many times. When delusional people were saying Nathan Rourke should sign long term with BC and not look to the NFL, I argued hard against that.

[Argo57]

They may not fully walk away, but they can’t guarantee they would bring him back. If he’s not signed by the 13th, on the 14th they need to conduct business as if he wasn’t coming back. I’m as big a backer of MBT as there is, but you need commitment. You can look no further than the Green Bay Packers to see that Aaron Rogers non committed attitude had their best receiver leave and it greatly affected that team this year (not that I complained about it).

They have to carry on as if he isn’t coming back if he hasn’t committed by the start of free agency, sign the best veteran QB you can in addition to Kelly.

[Scooter McCray]

I think NFL interest in CFL QBs is being over estimated here. Last year when the discussion about Nathan Rourke to NFL was on I discussed this with Farhan Lalji. My reasoning was for Rourke was to come back to the Lions and put together a couple more record breaking seasons, maybe win a championship and he could write his own ticket, get keys to a starting job in the NFL the way Moon, Brock, Flutie did. Rather than compete for a 2nd or 3rd string opportunity.
Lalji told me that simply will not happen in today's football world. Does not matter anymore what a QB accomplishes in Canada they will never be handed the keys to a franchise.
I was a little surprised that the NFL has that low regard for our league.
I don't agree with it, but it is their own ignorance, just like black QBS in the 70s, 80s and smaller, mobile QBs in the 90s. And it will let us enjoy their talents for longer here.
MBT, Collaros, Rourke today quite clearly are better than guys down there getting starts in the NFL but I dont see them getting a serious consideration. Rourke will, and he will be starting within a few years for someone.

[paulwoods13]

They have to carry on as if he isn’t coming back if he hasn’t committed by the start of free agency, sign the best veteran QB you can in addition to Kelly.

I think it needs to be the best value, not necessarily the best available QB. Since there are two teams looking for a starter, Harris should be able to get in the range of $400k, and Fajardo probably not much less than that. I definitely would not spend that type of money if I believed Kelly was good enough to be the starter, as the Argos seem to believe. So I'd be looking at mid-range guys like Shiltz and (mid-range perhaps only in my opinion) Arbuckle. Guys who might cost, say, $200k plus incentives. That would free up money to be spent elsewhere.

[Argo57]

I think it needs to be the best value, not necessarily the best available QB. Since there are two teams looking for a starter, Harris should be able to get in the range of $400k, and Fajardo probably not much less than that. I definitely would not spend that type of money if I believed Kelly was good enough to be the starter, as the Argos seem to believe. So I'd be looking at mid-range guys like Shiltz and (mid-range perhaps only in my opinion) Arbuckle. Guys who might cost, say, $200k plus incentives. That would free up money to be spent elsewhere.

Fair point, no thanks to Arbuckle.

[OV Argo]

I'd like to see/hear about the signing of another QB or two for TC, and sooner than later. No thanks to recycling mediocres like Arbuckle or Shiltz; rather roll with new talent and see if they have something vs. average to more like weak talents, but who are CFL "experienced".

Would be a gamble of sorts if MBT does not return and then to roll with Kelly as #1 with little CFL experience behind him, but still rather go with young & new talent; the Argos did find BOTH Zack Collaros & Trevor Harris in one off-season; and the example of the 75 Ottawa Rough Riders who went with rookie QBs out of US college ball in Clements & Holloway (plus had CIS star QB Bill Robinson in camp who made 3rd stringer), should not be forgotten or ignored IMO.

With the new USFL & XFL taking up some QB talent, plus NFL rosters being larger than ever, there might not be near the selection of good US college ball QBs for the CFL to look at or attract as decades ago, but there are still bound to be some good ones (QBs get cut by the NFL every year, and others out of college ball like Rourke are written-off by the super experts). And the continued ignorance of or lack of respect for Canadian QB talent by the GOBs - at a time when some CFL teams are in real need for TC competition - is appalling myopia IMO. The Argo thinkers are quite Ok with bringing in this kid from Div II Tarleton State, but I guess they never heard of top U Sports QB talent ? Andreas Dueck of McMaster is coming off 3 years of being a starter there, and on a good team led them to a National Semi back in 2019 when he was 2nd in the country in passing, and in the past 2 years of average Mac teams he has passed for an outstanding well over 65% completion %, and he has pro QB size, so no excuses there - why would he not be given a chance for a team in real QB need? Same with a couple of ex U Sports starters in Kaleb Scott (Saint Mary's) and Brett Hunchak (York) who are continuing to play football (call it semi-pro if need be) over in Europe and led their teams to the title game in the France league.

Argo personnel people may be waiting to see how the NFL draft shakes out to see who is left-over for possible signings, but IMO looking far & wide is a much smarter approach, and that includes not being ignoramuses about Canadian QB talent; we'll see if we hear any possible Argo interest in Michael O'Connor.

[ArgoRavi]

Whether or not there is NFL interest in him is debatable and remains to be seen. I think it's certainly possible an NFL team would consider signing him, albeit with no guarantees. What's not debatable, IMO, is that he continues to have a dream of playing in the NFL, and he's going to keep pursuing that dream a while longer. Who can blame him for pursuing his dream as long as possible?

Here's what I think is going to happen. He's going to agree to terms with the Argos on a contract that will pay him something in the range of $30,000 per game (which is about what Bo is making this year). He'll sign it if and only if he fails to land an NFL job and the Argos have a need for him. They will start the season with Kelly at QB while MBT is in an NFL camp somewhere. If he makes the NFL, great for him, and we still have Kelly. If he doesn't make the NFL, he can come back to the Argos for the last seven or eight games if he's needed here, say if Kelly gets hurt or does not perform to the required level. It's a risk for him that Argos won't need him at that point, but he will see that as a risk worth taking in pursuit of his dream. And if it ends up he does come back here, it's a win for everyone (possibly excepting Kelly).

I am not entirely convinced that MBT has any dream about the NFL at this point in his career and life. The guy is a different cat - which I very much like about him - and I don't think that he is driven by money but by family. I think that he is trying to figure out how best to combine football with family and I don't see the NFL fitting into that equation with the very long days that NFL players have to work.

Ultimately, I will accept any decision that he makes and be happy for him. What he has contributed to the Argonauts organization for the past five years is something I will always appreciate.

[ArgoRavi]

I think NFL interest in CFL QBs is being over estimated here. Last year when the discussion about Nathan Rourke to NFL was on I discussed this with Farhan Lalji. My reasoning was for Rourke was to come back to the Lions and put together a couple more record breaking seasons, maybe win a championship and he could write his own ticket, get keys to a starting job in the NFL the way Moon, Brock, Flutie did. Rather than compete for a 2nd or 3rd string opportunity.
Lalji told me that simply will not happen in today's football world. Does not matter anymore what a QB accomplishes in Canada they will never be handed the keys to a franchise.
I was a little surprised that the NFL has that low regard for our league.
I don't agree with it, but it is their own ignorance, just like black QBS in the 70s, 80s and smaller, mobile QBs in the 90s. And it will let us enjoy their talents for longer here.
MBT, Collaros, Rourke today quite clearly are better than guys down there getting starts in the NFL but I dont see them getting a serious consideration. Rourke will, and he will be starting within a few years for someone.

Even Rourke really didn't get a lot of offers that checked all the boxes for him. Jacksonville was one of the few (only?) teams to guarantee him a shot at the #2 position. I agree that NFL teams, in general, don't hold CFL QBs in that high regard (their loss), especially those who have been out of the NFL for years like MBT and Chad Kelly (and Kelly has some significant baggage at that).

[paulwoods13]

I am not entirely convinced that MBT has any dream about the NFL at this point in his career and life. The guy is a different cat - which I very much like about him - and I don't think that he is driven by money but by family. I think that he is trying to figure out how best to combine football with family and I don't see the NFL fitting into that equation with the very long days that NFL players have to work.

How else should we interpret "plans to play this year, will only play in Toronto IF he plays in the CFL"? He surely is not interested in playing in the X or the U, so what's left other than the NFL?

[Will]

Arbuckle re-signed with the Redblacks.

[AngeloV]

Arbuckle re-signed with the Redblacks.

Good. At least this stops any thoughts of him returning to Toronto.

[OV Argo]

IF this means the RedBlacks are no longer interested in Caleb Evans (they did have all 3 last year though), then the Argos should be all over signing him IMO; bet he could beat out Kelly for the starting job in real competition.

["Issues"Mcgee]

IF this means the RedBlacks are no longer interested in Caleb Evans (they did have all 3 last year though), then the Argos should be all over signing him IMO; bet he could beat out Kelly for the starting job in real competition.

I'll take that bet.

[Will]

IF this means the RedBlacks are no longer interested in Caleb Evans (they did have all 3 last year though), then the Argos should be all over signing him IMO; bet he could beat out Kelly for the starting job in real competition.

You mean Dane Evans.

Caleb Evans is the one who keeps throwing pick-sixes against the Argos.

[OV Argo]

I'll take that bet.


Based on what? - Kelly's NFL family connections or NCAA pedigree or notoriety? Certainly not based on anything seen on a CFL field.

[OV Argo]

You mean Dane Evans.

Caleb Evans is the one who keeps throwing pick-sixes against the Argos.

You mean the Caleb Evans who beat the Argos in a full start last season ?; Dane Evans - Ticats - is the guy who panics and gives the ball away lots.

[Will]

Yes, he did beat the the Argos this season, but he's also thrown 6 interceptions in the two other games against them.

[OV Argo]

Yes, he did beat the the Argos this season, but he's also thrown 6 interceptions in the two other games against them.

Late in the game in the last one, with the RedBlacks way behind and in desperation mode (last gasps to make the play-offs) (musta come up with some real un-typical LaPo same-old to win the earlier game with C. Evans starting and going over 80% completions)' Arbuckle entrusted with the final 2 starts vs. the Argos and with the RedBlacks play-off lives on the line, at home = 2 losses; vs. the Evans start & win on the road.

[ArgoRavi]

How else should we interpret "plans to play this year, will only play in Toronto IF he plays in the CFL"? He surely is not interested in playing in the X or the U, so what's left other than the NFL?

I think he could be interested in playing in the USFL. While the money isn't CFL-money, it's a short season and allows him to keep his foot in the game while only playing for 10 to 12 weeks. For him, money may not be a primary motivator right now.

As much as there should be NFL interest in him, I highly doubt that there is.

[paulwoods13]

I think he could be interested in playing in the USFL. While the money isn't CFL-money, it's a short season and allows him to keep his foot in the game while only playing for 10 to 12 weeks. For him, money may not be a primary motivator right now.

As much as there should be NFL interest in him, I highly doubt that there is.

Not CFL money is an understatement: salaries max out around $55,000 US. I can't see him doing that unless it's a direct ticket to an NFL camp. And since NFL is aligned with XFL, that seems unlikely.

Whether or not there is NFL interest in him obviously remains to be seen (altho Farhan suggests two teams have contacted him), but I have no doubt he is interested in getting back to the NFL. And I really doubt he'd even consider the USFL.

[Rich]

Based on what? - Kelly's NFL family connections or NCAA pedigree or notoriety? Certainly not based on anything seen on a CFL field.

In 2021 Nathan Rourke threw 82 passes with 3TD and 5INT, and in 2022 he was named the BC starter. Based on what?

In 2022 Chad Kelly threw 51 passes with 2TD 3INT. If he had thrown 81 passes like Rourke, would THAT be enough judge him on?

And you can’t seriously be suggesting that Kelly’s play in the Grey Cup revealed NOTHING about the guy.

[OV Argo]

In 2021 Nathan Rourke threw 82 passes with 3TD and 5INT, and in 2022 he was named the BC starter. Based on what?

In 2022 Chad Kelly threw 51 passes with 2TD 3INT. If he had thrown 81 passes like Rourke, would THAT be enough judge him on?

And you can’t seriously be suggesting that Kelly’s play in the Grey Cup revealed NOTHING about the guy.


Hey, Chad Kelly was impressive in a very small sample of work last year; Rourke was quite a bit more impressive in his rookie season that saw him in line to be # 1 there; but this is more about the comparison to Caleb Evans - do you watch other CFL teams play or just the Argos? - sorry, but C. Evans has just demonstrated way more QB skill on an actual CFL field thus far than Kelly has - like beating the Argos in a full game start last year where he was over 80% passing; and sure he's had more time to show young QB mistakes like picks, but arm strength wise plus mobility he has just shown more than Kelly, and playing on a much more limited offence with a dullard of an offensive coach. Like a bit of what I've seen from Kelly so far though, but sorry for not being all ga ga over big name US college ball resumes .

[AngeloV]

And you can’t seriously be suggesting that Kelly’s play in the Grey Cup revealed NOTHING about the guy.

I have a lot of confidence in Kelly, but let’s get serious about the Grey Cup game. He had a great scramble, but in the end he orchestrated a 34 yard TD drive. The short field due to the great punt return by Leake was the key to the TD IMO. Some make it sound like he led a 109 yard TD drive for the win. And as I said, I am very high on Kelly. I was really happy when they acquired his rights for Arbuckle

["Issues"Mcgee]

Hey, Chad Kelly was impressive in a very small sample of work last year; Rourke was quite a bit more impressive in his rookie season that saw him in line to be # 1 there; but this is more about the comparison to Caleb Evans - do you watch other CFL teams play or just the Argos? - sorry, but C. Evans has just demonstrated way more QB skill on an actual CFL field thus far than Kelly has - like beating the Argos in a full game start last year where he was over 80% passing; and sure he's had more time to show young QB mistakes like picks, but arm strength wise plus mobility he has just shown more than Kelly, and playing on a much more limited offence with a dullard of an offensive coach. Like a bit of what I've seen from Kelly so far though, but sorry for not being all ga ga over big name US college ball resumes .

I've seen long time CFL QB's lose their nerves in the Grey Cup game. Kevin Glenn in 2012 comes to mind. I think Kelly's heroics last November showed he won't fold under pressure. That is a valuable trait not all QB's have.

[bluto]

With the signings coming along as steadily as they have these last several days, the timeframe until FA shortening, and with the complete lack of anyone in the know saying anything substantive about Bethel-Thompson... it feels like the Club might have that done and are saving it until the other ones are all done.

[kellynjk]

Not CFL money is an understatement: salaries max out around $55,000 US. I can't see him doing that unless it's a direct ticket to an NFL camp. And since NFL is aligned with XFL, that seems unlikely.

Whether or not there is NFL interest in him obviously remains to be seen (altho Farhan suggests two teams have contacted him), but I have no doubt he is interested in getting back to the NFL. And I really doubt he'd even consider the USFL.

Don't know much about the NFL, but isn't MBT at almost 35 years old a little long in the tooth to be considered by the NFL at this point in his career?

[bluto]

https://www.cfl.ca/2023/02/06/steinbergs-mmqb-here-come-the-champs/

Lalji thinks McLeod is back.

[paulwoods13]

https://www.cfl.ca/2023/02/06/steinbergs-mmqb-here-come-the-champs/

Lalji thinks McLeod is back.

No he doesn't.

That piece on cfl.ca is a misinterpretation of what Lalji reported. His tweet said: "QB McLeod Bethel Thompson has informed #Argos that he is planning to play again in 2023. If he plays in @CFL it will be in Toronto. The club is hopeful for a final answer before the start of free agency but will be patient. Money is rarely the determining factor for MBT"

So, to summarize:

1. He plans to play in 2023
2. If he plays in the CFL it will be with the Argos

The unspoken but obvious inference is that he might play in the United States, not in the CFL. And Lalji had a subsequent tweet speculating on what might happen:

"Harris to Sask
Fajardo to Mtl
Evans to Tor (if MBT plays in [American flag emoji], otherwise to Mtl to compete with Cody. Sound reasonable?"

So clearly Lalji believes that MBT playing somewhere other than the CFL is a possibility.

[paulwoods13]

Don't know much about the NFL, but isn't MBT at almost 35 years old a little long in the tooth to be considered by the NFL at this point in his career?

Addressed this earlier in the thread. Yes, he might not (or might) find any NFL interest. His age seems to make it a longshot. But clearly he wants to find out for himself.

[bluto]

No he doesn't.

That piece on cfl.ca is a misinterpretation of what Lalji reported. His tweet said: "QB McLeod Bethel Thompson has informed #Argos that he is planning to play again in 2023. If he plays in @CFL it will be in Toronto. The club is hopeful for a final answer before the start of free agency but will be patient. Money is rarely the determining factor for MBT"

So, to summarize:

1. He plans to play in 2023
2. If he plays in the CFL it will be with the Argos

The unspoken but obvious inference is that he might play in the United States, not in the CFL. And Lalji had a subsequent tweet speculating on what might happen:

"Harris to Sask
Fajardo to Mtl
Evans to Tor (if MBT plays in [American flag emoji], otherwise to Mtl to compete with Cody. Sound reasonable?"

So clearly Lalji believes that MBT playing somewhere other than the CFL is a possibility.

That is definitely one way to interpret that.
I would suggest that it is not the only way which you could.

I think he gets announced after the remaining re-signing veterans.

[OV Argo]

Pussycats have re-signed Schlitz; = thank Gawd; that the Argos were not that stupid to sign the mediocre out of desperation. I'd rather roll with the local HS star QB. ;o)

[Shatto]

Pussycats have re-signed Schlitz; = thank Gawd; that the Argos were not that stupid to sign the mediocre out of desperation. I'd rather roll with the local HS star QB. ;o)

It is starting to make me wonder who the team will sign as a backup QB. Hamilton will probably prefer to trade Evans out west rather than let him sign with one of the Eastern teams (especially the Argos). If MBT does not sign with the Argos in the next little while, the team will have to sign someone. Wonder if Jacob Evans is being considered? Any thoughts anyone?

[paulwoods13]

That is definitely one way to interpret that.
I would suggest that it is not the only way which you could.

I think he gets announced after the remaining re-signing veterans.

I don't think "if" means anything other than "if," but I guess we will find out.

[gilthethrill]

It is starting to make me wonder who the team will sign as a backup QB. Hamilton will probably prefer to trade Evans out west rather than let him sign with one of the Eastern teams (especially the Argos). If MBT does not sign with the Argos in the next little while, the team will have to sign someone. Wonder if Jacob Evans is being considered? Any thoughts anyone?

I think Dane Evans will be cut prior to Free Agency. Every team knows he is done in Hamilton so there is no point in making a trade. A hard NO to Caleb Evans if that is who you were referring to.

[kellynjk]

Addressed this earlier in the thread. Yes, he might not (or might) find any NFL interest. His age seems to make it a longshot. But clearly he wants to find out for himself.

Or sorry didn't see that earlier in this thread. I can appreciate that if his spouse is working and needs to be based in California, that he might want to find some situation that accommodates that or is any easier commute to California. If he does re-sign with the Argos, do you think he's be the starter or will he have to share duties with Kelly. If I were Kelly I wouldn't be keen to once again play that role (sent in on short runs etc) I would want the chance to be the starting QB for at least some of the games.

[AngeloV]

I think he gets announced after the remaining re-signing veterans.

I agree with you. I was always under the impression that the Argos had agreements with most of their top FA’s but were just slowly announcing them. Not a bad way to keep yourself in the news.

[Argo57]

I agree with you. I was always under the impression that the Argos had agreements with most of their top FA’s but were just slowly announcing them. Not a bad way to keep yourself in the news.

Argos management have done a nice job of quietly and efficiently taking care of business this off season.

[Shatto]

I think Dane Evans will be cut prior to Free Agency. Every team knows he is done in Hamilton so there is no point in making a trade. A hard NO to Caleb Evans if that is who you were referring to.

The point I was trying to make, albeit, obviously not well enough, was Hamilton is unlikely to want Evans ending up with an Eastern team (in particular the Argos). The purpose of a trade out west, would not be to receive anything of much value but rather to keep Evans away from any Eastern team. It could be something like a conditional 7th round draft choice. The advantage to the Western team, is they would get a potentially valuable player for practically nothing and would not have to compete against other teams for the privilege.

However, perhaps Hamilton wouldn't be so Machiavellian and releases Evans prior to free agency, in which case hopefully the Argos get a shot at him.

[ArgoRavi]

The point I was trying to make, albeit, obviously not well enough, was Hamilton is unlikely to want Evans ending up with an Eastern team (in particular the Argos). The purpose of a trade out west, would not be to receive anything of much value but rather to keep Evans away from any Eastern team. It could be something like a conditional 7th round draft choice. The advantage to the Western team, is they would get a potentially valuable player for practically nothing and would not have to compete against other teams for the privilege.

However, perhaps Hamilton wouldn't be so Machiavellian and releases Evans prior to free agency, in which case hopefully the Argos get a shot at him.

I can't see any team trading for Dane Evans and his $400k contract although the Riders could eventually be desperate enough to do so.

[Argo57]

I can't see any team trading for Dane Evans and his $400k contract although the Riders could eventually be desperate enough to do so.

It appears Trevor Harris will sign with the Riders.

https://3downnation.com/2023/02/06/saskatchewan-roughriders-make-strong-offer-to-veteran-qb-trevor-harris/

[bluto]

It appears Trevor Harris will sign with the Riders.

https://3downnation.com/2023/02/06/saskatchewan-roughriders-make-strong-offer-to-veteran-qb-trevor-harris/

I just don't get it. Why would a team come off of a 6-12 season and not hit ctrl-alt-del on the whole thing? It's the one time you can't blame a club for not trying to win it 'now'. Instead they bring in a 37 year old QB to his sixth CFL team for half a Mill. Is the plan for them that he's a stop-gap while they develop their QB1 of the future and they just suffer through another year of getting battered? First Team QB practice reps aren't such an abundant commodity that QB development in our league works very well... Maybe they figure that their QB2&3 will get plenty of real reps in practice and game due to injury and games being blowouts?

Anyway, as plans go, I think it sucks. We've seen that sort of stuff here in the not distant past.

[paulwoods13]

If in fact MBT does not return (which I still feel is the likeliest scenario), we are likely down to these four primary options as backup/alternative to Kelly:

Caleb Evans
Michael O'Connor
Antonio Pipkin
Dakota Prukop

One of Fajardo and Dane Evans should also be left standing when the musical chairs in Sask and Regina come to an end. My distaste for Fajardo is well-known, and I've gone on record as thinking D Evans still has tons of upside (but would need a much reduced contract). Among the four others, I'm leaning to Caleb Evans since he at least seems to be similar stylistically to Kelly. I don't think he is going to develop into a starter in this league, but he'll be in the league somewhere this year, so we will eventually find out.

[Mocha]

After Week 7 and 8 last year, I really thought Caleb Evans had found his game . . . but then he regressed and the team brought in Arbuckle. I still think he has a decent upside, though, and his youth works in his favour.

Maybe we'll end up signing both Evanses.

[AngeloV]

If in fact MBT does not return (which I still feel is the likeliest scenario), we are likely down to these four primary options as backup/alternative to Kelly:

Caleb Evans
Michael O'Connor
Antonio Pipkin
Dakota Prukop

One of Fajardo and Dane Evans should also be left standing when the musical chairs in Sask and Regina come to an end. My distaste for Fajardo is well-known, and I've gone on record as thinking D Evans still has tons of upside (but would need a much reduced contract). Among the four others, I'm leaning to Caleb Evans since he at least seems to be similar stylistically to Kelly. I don't think he is going to develop into a starter in this league, but he'll be in the league somewhere this year, so we will eventually find out.

If MBT doesn’t re-sign (and I think he will) from that group I would take O’Connor first and Prukop 2nd. But I would also prioritize whoever is left out of the starting carousel between Fajardo and Dane Evans before either of them. No thanks to Pipkim or Caleb Evans.

[bluto]

If MBT doesn’t re-sign (and I think he will) from that group I would take O’Connor first and Prukop 2nd. But I would also prioritize whoever is left out of the starting carousel between Fajardo and Dane Evans before either of them. No thanks to Pipkim or Caleb Evans.

I'd take O'Connor anyway. MBT, Kelly, O'Connor would be dandy.

[ArgoGabe22]

Off-season gossip. Chad Kelly has never left the city and I think he wants to be the guy and is willing to stick around the city and make as many appearances as possible. This was from today at City Hall. (Sorry image was too large). He could wear some Argos gear though.

[AngeloV]

Off-season gossip. Chad Kelly has never left the city and I think he wants to be the guy and is willing to stick around the city and make as many appearances as possible. This was from today at City Hall. (Sorry image was too large). He could wear some Argos gear though.

But..but..but I thought he was a basket case.

[AngeloV]

I'd take O'Connor anyway. MBT, Kelly, O'Connor would be dandy.

I’m a fan of O’Connor, but has seemed to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I still believe if he was give the chance in Calgary he would have been as good or better than Maier. Calgary coaches up the QB’s well. Hell that coaching made Arbuckle some good money the last couple of years based on a few starts there.

[gilthethrill]

Off-season gossip. Chad Kelly has never left the city and I think he wants to be the guy and is willing to stick around the city and make as many appearances as possible. This was from today at City Hall. (Sorry image was too large). He could wear some Argos gear though.

Either Kelly couldn’t find Argo gear in Toronto or they were sold out of his size.

["Issues"Mcgee]

But..but..but I thought he was a basket case.

=)

[Will]

Off-season gossip. Chad Kelly has never left the city and I think he wants to be the guy and is willing to stick around the city and make as many appearances as possible. This was from today at City Hall. (Sorry image was too large). He could wear some Argos gear though.

I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but some of the other players weren't wearing Argos gear either.

[Will]

But..but..but I thought he was a basket case.

I thought he was good as gone to Saskatchewan.

[AngeloV]

I thought he was good as gone to Saskatchewan.

Yeah, there is no way a guy with his ego would contemplate coming back to a team holding MBT's spot for him.

[Scooter McCray]

Yeah, there is no way a guy with his ego would contemplate coming back to a team holding MBT's spot for him.His ego's writing cheques his body can't cash.

[ArgoRavi]

I just don't get it. Why would a team come off of a 6-12 season and not hit ctrl-alt-del on the whole thing? It's the one time you can't blame a club for not trying to win it 'now'. Instead they bring in a 37 year old QB to his sixth CFL team for half a Mill. Is the plan for them that he's a stop-gap while they develop their QB1 of the future and they just suffer through another year of getting battered? First Team QB practice reps aren't such an abundant commodity that QB development in our league works very well... Maybe they figure that their QB2&3 will get plenty of real reps in practice and game due to injury and games being blowouts?

Anyway, as plans go, I think it sucks. We've seen that sort of stuff here in the not distant past.

I would add that Harris is the quintessential .500 QB. Maybe he gets the Riders back to 9-9 but if they pay him $500k for that, they are paying too much.

[Rich]

I have a lot of confidence in Kelly, but let’s get serious about the Grey Cup game. He had a great scramble, but in the end he orchestrated a 34 yard TD drive. The short field due to the great punt return by Leake was the key to the TD IMO. Some make it sound like he led a 109 yard TD drive for the win. And as I said, I am very high on Kelly. I was really happy when they acquired his rights for Arbuckle

It’s true, other than The Scramble, his play wasn’t exactly spectacular. I think getting two first downs on his first two passes was huge for the team. The second, to Ambles, had to be a perfect throw and it was.

Then he got lucky and nearly threw a pick-six, but didn’t. No turnovers is job 1 for the backup coming into that situation, but I don’t really remember anything else good he did up until the scramble.

The play’s burned into my memory like the Wilder catch in the 17EF or the Vaughan TD. The quick footwork turning the 180, the acceleration into the gap, the open field running. But what made the play legendary was Kelly putting his head down and taking a hellacious hit for an extra yard. That’s called taking the game by the horns. I can only imagine the energy that collision ignited on the Argonauts bench.

Now obviously one play in itself doesn’t qualify anyone to be a starter, but a play like that, at a time like that, sure can reveal a lot about a guy.

[AngeloV]

It’s true, other than The Scramble, his play wasn’t exactly spectacular. I think getting two first downs on his first two passes was huge for the team. The second, to Ambles, had to be a perfect throw and it was.

Then he got lucky and nearly threw a pick-six, but didn’t. No turnovers is job 1 for the backup coming into that situation, but I don’t really remember anything else good he did up until the scramble.

The play’s burned into my memory like the Wilder catch in the 17EF or the Vaughan TD. The quick footwork turning the 180, the acceleration into the gap, the open field running. But what made the play legendary was Kelly putting his head down and taking a hellacious hit for an extra yard. That’s called taking the game by the horns. I can only imagine the energy that collision ignited on the Argonauts bench.

Now obviously one play in itself doesn’t qualify anyone to be a starter, but a play like that, at a time like that, sure can reveal a lot about a guy.

I don’t disagree with any of that.

[OV Argo]

I would add that Harris is the quintessential .500 QB. Maybe he gets the Riders back to 9-9 but if they pay him $500k for that, they are paying too much.

Interesting take an a lot of mixed opinions on Harris; football is a team game and QBs often get too much credit or too much blame; Harris is still of author of 2 of the best QB play-off passing performances in CFL history - can't take that away from him and can't name a couple of other current CFL QBs with that on their resume.

Still - the Riders are very desperate IMO and paying big CFL buck$ for a 37 year old QB who is not named Doug Flutie or Russ Jackson is dumb-@$$ IMO; but it's the CFL we're talking and a lot of clueless clown GMs these days, IMO (an average receiver talent who drops all kinds of passes like Kenny Lawler gets supposedly top bucks in the league for his position cause he had a few big games the season before ???)

[Antwon]

So at this point if any other teams had interest in MBT they would have made an offer. Although he has stated he will only play for the Argos. Assumed the Argos have tabled an offer. If MBT doesn't except or negotiate, and his intentions are to play in one of the spring leagues or sign with an NFL team, maybe he tells them he'll come back in late Sept. If so the Argos need to get moving in the coming days and week to sign another QB to go along with Kelly and commit to the start of the season. This message needs to get out and build up excitement to the season!

[Scooter McCray]

MBT should update the team, public (fans) of where he is planning to go. Nathan Rourke had his NFL workouts and promised the Lions they would know so they could prepare for 2023. It's nice he has told the Argos they are the only CFL team he will play for, but they need more than that at this crucial time. Everything about him has been a team guy so I am hoping the team already knows, but he should be public because he has fans of him and this team that deserve an answer. The Argos gave a 30 something journeyman QB an opportunity to lead a team, and it was not always very pretty to watch. From inconsistent play, temper tantrums on the bench, and shoving a cameraman. This team stuck by him and gave him an opportunity which has afforded him yet another NFL opportunity. It's always said it's not about the money for him. Fine, then what is it about? What did the NFL ever do for him? At 34, it's time to put aside dreams you had when you were 10 years old. He will certainly not have time for his family as an NFL QB, even if it's in his hometown.
He owes the Toronto Argonauts, and Pinball an answer.

[bluto]

The fact that there is no update and no solid speculation seems to point in a particular direction.

[AngeloV]

MBT should update the team, public (fans) of where he is planning to go. Nathan Rourke had his NFL workouts and promised the Lions they would know so they could prepare for 2023. It's nice he has told the Argos they are the only CFL team he will play for, but they need more than that at this crucial time. Everything about him has been a team guy so I am hoping the team already knows, but he should be public because he has fans of him and this team that deserve an answer. The Argos gave a 30 something journeyman QB an opportunity to lead a team, and it was not always very pretty to watch. From inconsistent play, temper tantrums on the bench, and shoving a cameraman. This team stuck by him and gave him an opportunity which has afforded him yet another NFL opportunity. It's always said it's not about the money for him. Fine, then what is it about? What did the NFL ever do for him? At 34, it's time to put aside dreams you had when you were 10 years old. He will certainly not have time for his family as an NFL QB, even if it's in his hometown.
He owes the Toronto Argonauts, and Pinball an answer.

Huge difference here. Rourke was under contract still and used his NFL window. Because he was under contract, that had to be made public. MBT is a pending free agent. He’s under no obligation to tell anyone what his plans are.

[paulwoods13]

MBT should update the team, public (fans) of where he is planning to go. Nathan Rourke had his NFL workouts and promised the Lions they would know so they could prepare for 2023. It's nice he has told the Argos they are the only CFL team he will play for, but they need more than that at this crucial time. Everything about him has been a team guy so I am hoping the team already knows, but he should be public because he has fans of him and this team that deserve an answer. The Argos gave a 30 something journeyman QB an opportunity to lead a team, and it was not always very pretty to watch. From inconsistent play, temper tantrums on the bench, and shoving a cameraman. This team stuck by him and gave him an opportunity which has afforded him yet another NFL opportunity. It's always said it's not about the money for him. Fine, then what is it about? What did the NFL ever do for him? At 34, it's time to put aside dreams you had when you were 10 years old. He will certainly not have time for his family as an NFL QB, even if it's in his hometown.
He owes the Toronto Argonauts, and Pinball an answer.

I have to disagree. What gives anyone the right to insist that someone else abandon their dream? He doesn't owe the Argos, or the fans, anything. He helped the team win a championship, which was great (and a fair exchange), and he stopped collecting a salary from the team in November. It would be lovely if he and team mgmt came to a conclusion about what's happening this year, and announced it publicly, but life isn't always that straightforward or predictable. If not knowing what he's doing means the team decides to walk away from him, so be it. I'm confident he's aware of that possibility. I'd love him to come back, but I'd also be happy to see him fulfil his dream.

[bluto]

https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN/status/1623741871431483393?s=20&t=b7Tz7gC_EQRcQfZm0AirHA


Looks like Fajardo to the Als
(https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN/status/1623741871431483393?s=20&t=b7Tz7gC_EQRcQfZm0AirHA)

[AngeloV]

https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN/status/1623741871431483393?s=20&t=b7Tz7gC_EQRcQfZm0AirHA


Looks like Fajardo to the Als
(https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN/status/1623741871431483393?s=20&t=b7Tz7gC_EQRcQfZm0AirHA)

So now Hamilton has no team to move Dane Evans and his salary to. Hopefully they do the right thing and release him soon so that he find the best possible situation for himself. We all know Hamilton is not keeping his salary, so just release him nobody will trade for him with all the starting jobs in the league filled.

[Scooter McCray]

I have to disagree. What gives anyone the right to insist that someone else abandon their dream? He doesn't owe the Argos, or the fans, anything. He helped the team win a championship, which was great (and a fair exchange), and he stopped collecting a salary from the team in November. It would be lovely if he and team mgmt came to a conclusion about what's happening this year, and announced it publicly, but life isn't always that straightforward or predictable. If not knowing what he's doing means the team decides to walk away from him, so be it. I'm confident he's aware of that possibility. I'd love him to come back, but I'd also be happy to see him fulfil his dream.He is free to do whatever he chooses. I think it would be gracious for him to acknowledge the support of his former team, and fans of that team who supported him to advise them what he is doing at this point.

[OV Argo]

So now Hamilton has no team to move Dane Evans and his salary to. Hopefully they do the right thing and release him soon so that he find the best possible situation for himself. We all know Hamilton is not keeping his salary, so just release him nobody will trade for him with all the starting jobs in the league filled.

And IF Harris goes Green, and Fajardo ends up in Montreal, then he would be the Als only QB with any sort of resume in Canadian football ( the mighty Dom Davis apparently agreed to terms to sign in BC - yet another, repeat opportunity for a mediocre to more like useless American QB in the radical league). I wonder if the Als would be interested in Dane Evans as well, to have him compete with Fajardo for #1 or 1A and 1B there ?

[paulwoods13]

And IF Harris goes Green, and Fajardo ends up in Montreal, then he would be the Als only QB with any sort of resume in Canadian football ( the mighty Dom Davis apparently agreed to terms to sign in BC - yet another, repeat opportunity for a mediocre to more like useless American QB in the radical league). I wonder if the Als would be interested in Dane Evans as well, to have him compete with Fajardo for #1 or 1A and 1B there ?

My understanding is the Als are very high on David Alexander, and surely we all want to see some new QB talent emerging at some point. I'm betting Evans ends up in Toronto as 1a/1b with Kelly.

[Will]

I'm sure MBT has been in touch with Pinball and Magri over the past month. The public (us) is not owed an explanation, but it would be nice if the Argos did know his plans by the start of free agency so they can act accordingly. Of course, nobody can (legally) speak to Evans right now anyways.

["Issues"Mcgee]

The problem with contract talks is you really don't know what is going on. Maybe MBT is undecided. Maybe the Argos are low-balling him or telling him they are going in a different direction. Maybe signing MBT is a foregone conclusion and they are just hashing out details.

Point is, any analysis at this time is complete speculation. We'll know who to blame or congratulate when it's all said and done.

["Issues"Mcgee]

And IF Harris goes Green, and Fajardo ends up in Montreal, then he would be the Als only QB with any sort of resume in Canadian football ( the mighty Dom Davis apparently agreed to terms to sign in BC - yet another, repeat opportunity for a mediocre to more like useless American QB in the radical league). I wonder if the Als would be interested in Dane Evans as well, to have him compete with Fajardo for #1 or 1A and 1B there ?

Sad thing is, for the sake of league stability, we kind of need the Als to do well while they figure out their ownership. At least, it will certainly help.

[ArgoZ]

And IF Harris goes Green, and Fajardo ends up in Montreal, then he would be the Als only QB with any sort of resume in Canadian football ( the mighty Dom Davis apparently agreed to terms to sign in BC - yet another, repeat opportunity for a mediocre to more like useless American QB in the radical league). I wonder if the Als would be interested in Dane Evans as well, to have him compete with Fajardo for #1 or 1A and 1B there ?

I would be really happy with this. I think it’s time to take a chance and give Kelly the job. If he struggles, Evans is more than capable and will have something to prove. The team will really need Ouellette though for Evans much loved screen passes.

[Stevoman]

I know that Montreal is the only location where Fajardo has a legit chance to be a starter but other wise I'd really be wondering why he'd ever want to team back up with Jason Maas. Maybe it really was all the O-Line but I sure didn't think Maas planned games to Fajardo's strengths.

[bluto]

This is a long time for the club to remain radio-silent over the Quarterback position.

On one hand, Bethel-Thompson may be done and we therefore are standing pat with Chad Kelly as the de facto QB1... But if this were true, we'd still need to bring in a QB2 or a QB1a... And you'd think we may have caught wind of that through some report or rumor.

Or on the other hand, McLeod is coming back. It is agreed to and they're saving it for last.

Or is there an option 3 here? Got to be the second one.

[AngeloV]

This is a long time for the club to remain radio-silent over the Quarterback position.

On one hand, Bethel-Thompson may be done and we therefore are standing pat with Chad Kelly as the de facto QB1... But if this were true, we'd still need to bring in a QB2 or a QB1a... And you'd think we may have caught wind of that through some report or rumor.

Or on the other hand, McLeod is coming back. It is agreed to and they're saving it for last.

Or is there an option 3 here? Got to be the second one.

I think this is the only reason Hamilton is holding Dane Evans hostage rather than releasing a player they have no intention of keeping with a contract no team is willing to trade for. They don’t want him to come to Toronto until perhaps he misses all of training camp. Classless.

[bluto]

If that's the case, I can't blame them. They're under no obligation to assist us. They could choose to be nice (if that were the case), but they're acting within the rules.

And it isn't as if the Argos (or any other team) wouldn't have already reached out to Evans on the sly if they were interested in him... which strictly speaking is a no-no.

[OV Argo]

What this thread needs is more talk and care about a mediocre QB who gives the ball away all the time like Dane Evans. Too bad there are just zero other QBs out there for CFL GMs and fans to get all worked up about. Damn, i wish the Argos could sign him or coulda made a pitch for a talent like Dom Davis.

[paulwoods13]

I think this is the only reason Hamilton is holding Dane Evans hostage rather than releasing a player they have no intention of keeping with a contract no team is willing to trade for. They don’t want him to come to Toronto until perhaps he misses all of training camp. Classless.

There's little doubt this is what's going on. Ticats are tired of always losing, and determined not to screw up another home Grey Cup, so they are holding Evans hostage to prevent him from signing with their arch-rivals before camp opens. That way, he won't have months to get to know the playbook. This does not seem like a Steinauer-type move, but rather something coming from upstairs. IMO it will hurt the Cats in the future -- players notice which orgs treat players well when they leave, and which ones don't. The handling of Evans is in contrast to teams that release guys early, so they can latch on somewhere else while there's still money available. Regardless, I expect Evans will be an Argo in 2023.

[Shatto]

[QUOTE=bluto;165573]If that's the case, I can't blame them. They're under no obligation to assist us. They could choose to be nice (if that were the case), but they're acting within the rules.

And it isn't as if the Argos (or any other team) wouldn't have already reached out to Evans on the sly if they were interested in him... which strictly speaking is a no-no.[/QUOTE

You are absolutely right, Hamilton is under no contractual obligation to release Evans. However, it is a tacky way of treating a player who has toiled for them. As Paul, has pointed out, players observe how teams treat players and this may eventually come back to haunt them. I may be wrong but I can't see Pinball acting in this manner.

[Will]

If their treatment of Evans was to have an impact, it hasn't compromised their ability in the early days of the 2023 free agency period.

[AngeloV]

If their treatment of Evans was to have an impact, it hasn't compromised their ability in the early days of the 2023 free agency period.

It might have an impact on players signing multi year extensions with them. Truthfully, I think it hurts the league in general. Just like releasing players a day before a bonus is do. Just a bad look. IMO, at the very least, all bonuses should be guaranteed. It would end this nonsense

[paulwoods13]

It's in sharp contrast to how the Argos treated Collaros in 2014. They released him early, knowing he was leaving in free agency and probably knowing he would end up in Hamilton. Class gesture. Obviously there is a major difference in that Evans is still under contract. But the Ticats have made it clear he's done in Hamilton; even if Bo were to suddenly retire tomorrow, I don't see that bridge being unburned. So treat the man humanely by releasing him and allowing him to find another job, rather than leave him twisting for weeks or months.

[bluto]

I totally get it. And I'll grant that it is classy and it is kind. I'll even allow that the "what goes around comes around" view is wholly legitimate.

But if I'm a General Manager, my remit is to kick the other team's ass. And being classy and kind isn't going to be part of it. If it looks like he's likely to go to a rival, then I sit him in the Pit of Despair for as long as I can.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Truthfully, I think it hurts the league in general. Just like releasing players a day before a bonus is do. Just a bad look. IMO, at the very least, all bonuses should be guaranteed. It would end this nonsense
The league management could care less.It's part of the league's DNA.It's not changing anytime soon.

[OV Argo]

The league management could care less.It's part of the league's DNA.It's not changing anytime soon.

Even if there was a Commish who cared or got it and wanted to do something (not that clown Ambrosia), he likely could do nothing anyhow with the BOGoofs being able to cancel him (or muzzle him) ? So 5 or 6 more Doman types as owners would be required.

Said before - like Batman/Joker/ Nicholson - "this league needs an enema" .

[bluto]

It might have an impact on players signing multi year extensions with them. Truthfully, I think it hurts the league in general. Just like releasing players a day before a bonus is do. Just a bad look. IMO, at the very least, all bonuses should be guaranteed. It would end this nonsense

It's almost as if the players ought to have a union to deal with that sort of thing.

[AngeloV]

Chad Kelly and the boys at the Leafs game tonight. Great to see him in town through the off season.

https://twitter.com/mapleleafs/status/1626027980068646912?s=61&t=zgTQzFAUZcLRTeb7UP5Cjg

[gilthethrill]

Chad Kelly and the boys at the Leafs game tonight. Great to see him in town through the off season.

https://twitter.com/mapleleafs/status/1626027980068646912?s=61&t=zgTQzFAUZcLRTeb7UP5Cjg

Kelly should be sporting a black alternative Leaf jersey that Bieber designed.

[AngeloV]

Kelly should be sporting a black alternative Leaf jersey that Bieber designed.

Don’t get me started on alternate jerseys in sports.

[ArgoRavi]

Don’t get me started on alternate jerseys in sports.

Especially for an iconic franchise like the Maple Leafs.

[gilthethrill]

Don’t get me started on alternate jerseys in sports.

It should be simple. 2 jerseys…Home and Away, your team colours are your team colours….3rd jersey concept = black it seems.

[Scooter McCray]

https://youtu.be/9IGlkqm27wo
MBT? Housekeeping? Anytime....

[bluto]

Yeah, I'm about ready for the QB announcement...

I'm in a Schrodinger's cat sort of quantum superposition: I both believe that we are the CFL East's presumptive favorites (MB-T) and also that we will have growing pains on offence and are in a real battle to retain the East title (plan B)

[Antwon]

Interesting. Cody Farjardo was on the Rod Pedersen show. He said 6 teams contacted his agent, and it came down to Montreal and Toronto. Chose Montreal for the best chance to start and noted the MBT unknown in Toronto.

[ArgoRavi]

If MBT doesn't return, the Argos have three options for competition for Kelly - Dane Evans, given that he can somehow be extracted from Hamilton, Michael O'Connor, and Antonio Pipkin. Given that they already chose Kelly over Pipkin in the last training camp, it's likely down to Evans or O'Connor.

[ArgoGabe22]

Don’t get me started on alternate jerseys in sports.

Guess no one wants to hear about Newcastle United's "kit". Classic Black and White Stripes. Which they still have but now wear a green and white Saudi inspired kits because they're owned by Saudis. No historical ties to green whatsoever.

[AngeloV]

Guess no one wants to hear about Newcastle United's "kit". Classic Black and White Stripes. Which they still have but now wear a green and white Saudi inspired kits because they're owned by Saudis. No historical ties to green whatsoever.

I don't care to hear anything about them or that game they play period.
:)

[Shatto]

If MBT doesn't return, the Argos have three options for competition for Kelly - Dane Evans, given that he can somehow be extracted from Hamilton, Michael O'Connor, and Antonio Pipkin. Given that they already chose Kelly over Pipkin in the last training camp, it's likely down to Evans or O'Connor.

If Hamilton refuses to give Evans his release, I doubt if the Argos would want to pursue either Pipkin or O'Connor. It appears the team has been researching some QBs in the States, that they feel might potentially be interested in coming up here. Sooner or later Hamilton will have to release Evans but it looks like they are going to hold on to him as long as possible.

It is possible they might sign O'Connor, which in turn might encourage Hamilton (who should then realize the Argos are not going to enter any trade deal) to release Evans. The team could then have Kelly and Evans compete for the starting job with O'Connor as the team's 3rd QB.

[OV Argo]

Some seem to think the only possible other QBs the Argos could try-out are known CFL experience/roster guys?

[Rich]

Some seem to think the only possible other QBs the Argos could try-out are known CFL experience/roster guys?

What, experience doesn’t matter anymore? If Kelly was named #1, you’d be ok with rookies at #2 and #3? I sure wouldn’t.

[OV Argo]

What, experience doesn’t matter anymore? If Kelly was named #1, you’d be ok with rookies at #2 and #3? I sure wouldn’t.

Didn't say I'd be good with rookies only; and that kid from D II ball - Holmes - is not really a rookie since he was on the roster last year and had some other CFL roster experience.

Evans (not worth even decent CFL buck$ IMO), Pipkin (always thought he had some potential when he first played for the Als) and O'Connor (doubt any CFL team is interested) are all possibilities, but not the only ones. There's NCAA starting QBs who don't draw NFL interest, plus NFL cuts with pro experience, available every year; plus, gasp, a Canadian QB could be given a shot.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Guess no one wants to hear about Newcastle United's "kit". Classic Black and White Stripes. Which they still have but now wear a green and white Saudi inspired kits because they're owned by Saudis. No historical ties to green whatsoever.

That's brutal. No amount of cash is worth selling off your identity. I guess MLSE ain't so bad.

[argolio]

I don't care to hear anything about them or that game they play period.
:)I think the bigger issue in Gabe's post is the political aspect. Entities from Middle East oil countries have bought English soccer teams and want to buy more. They finance LIV golf. NFL teams could be next. It's not impossible years down the road that Bell & Rogers get an offer for MLSE they can't refuse.

[paulwoods13]

Holmes might not be a "rookie," but he has dressed for one CFL game and did not even get on the field. That's way too inexperienced for the primary backup. If Kelly got hurt, the season could be toast without some real experience behind him. I'm surprised some folks seem to think D Evans is not worth pursuing. Trevor Harris gets lionized for two great playoff performances a few years ago, yet Evans' 16-for-16 on the road in the 2021 Eastern Final is "whatever," it seems.

[OV Argo]

Holmes might not be a "rookie," but he has dressed for one CFL game and did not even get on the field. That's way too inexperienced for the primary backup. If Kelly got hurt, the season could be toast without some real experience behind him. I'm surprised some folks seem to think D Evans is not worth pursuing. Trevor Harris gets lionized for two great playoff performances a few years ago, yet Evans' 16-for-16 on the road in the 2021 Eastern Final is "whatever," it seems.

That was a very impressive play-off performance by Evans - 2nd half adjustments by the Ticats and brutal melt-down by the Argo D were factors. Good with bad for some QBs, but the ones that are more bad are to be avoided IMO; Evans bumbling, stumbling , fumbling games away for the Ticats last year along with having to be replaced by a Matt Schlitz level QB talent in the East play-off loss last season are glaring red flags IMO; as is a 3.4 per carry rushing average for a QB.

[AngeloV]

Holmes might not be a "rookie," but he has dressed for one CFL game and did not even get on the field. That's way too inexperienced for the primary backup. If Kelly got hurt, the season could be toast without some real experience behind him. I'm surprised some folks seem to think D Evans is not worth pursuing. Trevor Harris gets lionized for two great playoff performances a few years ago, yet Evans' 16-for-16 on the road in the 2021 Eastern Final is "whatever," it seems.

We've disagreed a lot lately, but you are bang on with this post.

Also regarding Harris and the references to his 2 tremendous playoff games. Unfortunate for him, he still hasn't played 2 tremendous playoff games in the same season.

["Issues"Mcgee]

The other day Diniwiddie said there are a few QB's in the US they are looking at if MBT doesn't sign.

[Will]

The other day Diniwiddie said there are a few QB's in the US they are looking at if MBT doesn't sign.

That's still a risky proposition.

[paulwoods13]

That was a very impressive play-off performance by Evans - 2nd half adjustments by the Ticats and brutal melt-down by the Argo D were factors. Good with bad for some QBs, but the ones that are more bad are to be avoided IMO; Evans bumbling, stumbling , fumbling games away for the Ticats last year along with having to be replaced by a Matt Schlitz level QB talent in the East play-off loss last season are glaring red flags IMO; as is a 3.4 per carry rushing average for a QB.

Of course Harris's two big playoff games had nothing to do with the defences he was playing. And lifetime, Harris's rushing average is 4.3 to Evans' 4.1, so basically a wash.

[OV Argo]

Of course Harris's two big playoff games had nothing to do with the defences he was playing. And lifetime, Harris's rushing average is 4.3 to Evans' 4.1, so basically a wash.

Neither is a run threat QB; but more recently on the resumes dept: Evans threw as many picks as TDs last season; bumbled & fumbled away games for the Ticats; had a 3.4 per carry rushing average on the season and, got pulled from a play-off game in favor of a stiff of a QB. Not exactly trending upwards, but still, has CFL "experience".

[Argo57]

Neither is a run threat QB; but more recently on the resumes dept: Evans threw as many picks as TDs last season; bumbled & fumbled away games for the Ticats; had a 3.4 per carry rushing average on the season and, got pulled from a play-off game in favor of a stiff of a QB. Not exactly trending upwards, but still, has CFL "experience".

If MBT retires I would have no issue bringing Dane Evans in and run with a tandem of him and Chad Kelly.
I really believe a change of scenery would do him wonders.

[OV Argo]

If MBT retires I would have no issue bringing Dane Evans in and run with a tandem of him and Chad Kelly.
I really believe a change of scenery would do him wonders.

Yes, perhaps it would; and maybe having a coach with QB whisperer capability could really help. He's still under contract with Hamilton though.

Meanwhile, the Argos have precious little at QB; why have they not signed O'Connor ? Let me guess.

[Argo57]

Yes, perhaps it would; and maybe having a coach with QB whisperer capability could really help. He's still under contract with Hamilton though.

Meanwhile, the Argos have precious little at QB; why have they not signed O'Connor ? Let me guess.

We all realize he still is under contract with Hamilton but we all know that will change in the future.

[paulwoods13]

We all realize he still is under contract with Hamilton but we all know that will change in the future.

Yes, but the question is when. I think I wrote before (maybe somewhere other than here) that I expect Hamilton to keep under contract until very close to training camp. They clearly won't pay him the reporting bonus he's due, so he'll become available then, but he won't have been able to get to know the Argo playbook etc. during the offseason. Ticats will play hardball, knowing he's likely to sign with their rivals and might come back to haunt them. I, too, believe he still has lots to offer in this league, notwithstanding the problems he had at times last season. And boy, will he be motivated to get back at the Cats after they held him hostage for weeks/months after clearly planning to sever ties with him.

[ArgoRavi]

Didn't say I'd be good with rookies only; and that kid from D II ball - Holmes - is not really a rookie since he was on the roster last year and had some other CFL roster experience.

Evans (not worth even decent CFL buck$ IMO), Pipkin (always thought he had some potential when he first played for the Als) and O'Connor (doubt any CFL team is interested) are all possibilities, but not the only ones. There's NCAA starting QBs who don't draw NFL interest, plus NFL cuts with pro experience, available every year; plus, gasp, a Canadian QB could be given a shot.

And how many of those QBs would be ready to compete immediately for a CFL starting QB position?

[ArgoRavi]

Neither is a run threat QB; but more recently on the resumes dept: Evans threw as many picks as TDs last season; bumbled & fumbled away games for the Ticats; had a 3.4 per carry rushing average on the season and, got pulled from a play-off game in favor of a stiff of a QB. Not exactly trending upwards, but still, has CFL "experience".

I am not saying that Evans will turn into this QB but much of the same could be said once upon a time about Anthony Calvillo.

[OV Argo]

And how many of those QBs would be ready to compete immediately for a CFL starting QB position?

Don't know; won't find out without real competition in TC. Nathan Roukre got some decent playing time in his rookie CFL season. Jake Maier took the starting job away from Bo in short order.

[ArgoRavi]

Don't know; won't find out without real competition in TC. Nathan Roukre got some decent playing time in his rookie CFL season. Jake Maier took the starting job away from Bo in short order.

Conversely, the Argos brought along Chad Kelly very slowly - much more slowly than many Argos fans wanted - but that's the way to do things. Rourke got time in 2001 because Mike Reilly was playing hurt and, while he showed promise, exhibited some growing pains that season too.

[OV Argo]

Yes, but the question is when. I think I wrote before (maybe somewhere other than here) that I expect Hamilton to keep under contract until very close to training camp. They clearly won't pay him the reporting bonus he's due, so he'll become available then, but he won't have been able to get to know the Argo playbook etc. during the offseason. Ticats will play hardball, knowing he's likely to sign with their rivals and might come back to haunt them. I, too, believe he still has lots to offer in this league, notwithstanding the problems he had at times last season. And boy, will he be motivated to get back at the Cats after they held him hostage for weeks/months after clearly planning to sever ties with him.


Wonder if there's any chance the Ticats could patch things up with Evans and talk him into being back-up or plan 1B in a loaded-up for a GC hosting run season? At a reduced cost of course. I bet the Ticats may not get what they are hoping for out of an aging and faded (IMO) Bo; and surely they don't think Shiltz is going to take them far if Bo falters or gets injured ?

[Argo57]

Wonder if there's any chance the Ticats could patch things up with Evans and talk him into being back-up or plan 1B in a loaded-up for a GC hosting run season? At a reduced cost of course. I bet the Ticats may not get what they are hoping for out of an aging and faded (IMO) Bo; and surely they don't think Shiltz is going to take them far if Bo falters or gets injured ?

No chance.

[OV Argo]

No chance.

Ok; so they hold out and keep him away from other teams till the last second, but he's still going to get to go another team and be a starter and make starter coin ?

[Argo57]

Ok; so they hold out and keep him away from other teams till the last second, but he's still going to get to go another team and be a starter and make starter coin ?

I think the best he can hope for at this point is to be in a platoon QB situation, won’t be a starter and certainly will not get starters $$$.

["Issues"Mcgee]

That's still a risky proposition.

It's certainly risky but as time goes on it is becoming more of a possibility.

[Shatto]

If MBT does not return and it is looking more likely as time goes by, what are the options? A) Kelly and O'Connor or Pipkin B) Kelly and Holmes (presently on roster) C) Kelly and an American QB that the team may have on the radar D) Wait for Evans to be released and then have Kelly and Evans

I would argue that while there are some potential positives for A), B) and C), the safest option should be D) Even D) has risks as we have seen Evans does seem to have problems with his confidence and mental toughness when facing adversity but he has proven in the past to have talent. Evans played his best football when he was with Masoli. Could that scenario be repeated with Kelly and Evans?

There could be strong arguments put forth for each of the options but this Argo management has made sound and successful decisions so far, so I will trust them to do the same in this situation.

["Issues"Mcgee]

First

[Shatto]

Decision made. MBT signed with USFL. He mentions that this will give him another crack at the NFL this Fall and it allows him to be closer his family. He is extremely complimentary of the CFL and his team mates.

Now to setting the scene for this coming season. Kelly and someone but who will it be? Expect some statement from the team in the near future.