Employee Alleged Harassment Case - Chad Kelly

["Issues"Mcgee]

I have just read Naylor’s account on TSN, and have several issues with the independent investigation and their report. I am not a lawyer but worked with lawyers for many years in adjudicating legal issues. To understand the legal issues involved, you would have to read the case law around the words in the Ontario Human Rights Code, and its legal application, and you really need a lawyer’s (with experience with the Ontario Human Rights Code) opinion in order to draw conclusions.


I find it curious that the CFL hired a security firm to do the independent investigation, and based in Saskatchewan no less. If you look at their web site, their investigators are basically all ex police officers. I don’t live in Ontario any more, but here in BC numerous cases are referred by the police to Crown Counsel for charges, and they never get to court because the Crown Counsel lawyers deem there is insufficient evidence to get a conviction. The choice of this security firm was a poor choice by the CFL in my opinion and one has to wonder why they were chosen.


Unfortunately in Naylor’s report, we are not given all the evidence gathered in the independent investigation. It would be really helpful to have supporting evidence from people around both the coach and Kelly to fully understand what happened and what mitigating circumstances there might be related to each of the episodes. Cherry picking out parts of the report is not helpful to anyone, unless you have a particular bias against someone. Drawing conclusions without any basis in fact is not acceptable at least in a court of law.


Having said that, unless there are some mitigating circumstances, the emails that Kelly sent (and according to case law around the Ontario Human Rights Code even one episode of “harassment” can constitute a pattern depending on the circumstances) would seem to be sexual harassment under the Ontario Code and Kelly will pay a price for that, even without the other stuff.


It would be of interest to know what training is given the Argo’s organization employees regarding harassment in the workplace. Did Kelly know, or should he have known that inviting another employee to his hotel room could be sexual harassment for example?


I agree with “issues" McGee. I hope this goes to trial to see what a judge has to say. Unfortunately for Kelly, his football career is likely scuppered even if he is found innocent on most of the complaints.

That looks to be the case, unfortunately.

Best we can hope for is an "any publicity is good publicity" situation to arise from this.

If the team is mediocre this season and the attendance dips back below 12k a game as a result, no one will be happy.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I'm not prepared to offer an opinion about the appropriateness of this firm being chosen (altho IMO its location in Saskatchewan is irrelevant), but it is certainly a choice about which the CFL should be asked. Why was Buckingham chosen rather than other available options, many if not most of which would have lawyers conduct such an investigation? Curious indeed to turn to a bunch of ex-Mounties for this.

I'm sensing less confidence from you in the credibility of the investigation compared to last night.

[ArgoRavi]

Not that I agree with this, but I think the Argos will give in to public pressure and cut ties with him.
I am willing to bet there are players on every team that have done worse things that just aren’t public.

For those that say he would be fired in any other line of work, I disagree. It is very hard to fire someone for a non criminal act without some sort of warning first.

I disagree. It isn't at all unusual in 2024 for someone to be fired for such behaviour.

[ArgoRavi]

I'm not prepared to offer an opinion about the appropriateness of this firm being chosen (altho IMO its location in Saskatchewan is irrelevant), but it is certainly a choice about which the CFL should be asked. Why was Buckingham chosen rather than other available options, many if not most of which would have lawyers conduct such an investigation? Curious indeed to turn to a bunch of ex-Mounties for this.

The head of this firm seems to have a long-standing relationship with the league.

I have seen firms with lawyers doing these kind of investigations as well as other firms with former HR people doing the investigating.

[primetime31]

I disagree. It isn't at all unusual in 2024 for someone to be fired for such behaviour.

According to the well known labour lawyer Howard Levitt (who may be the best labour lawyer in Canada), anyone can be fired for anything as long as they are paid out what they are properly owed when terminated. It is the proper payment of severance where many companies get railroaded into thinking that they don't have to pay anything when firing employees whereby they almost always owe something legally depending on years of service, future employability etc.

This was likely the only recourse for the plaintiff to get any money since she was not going to have her contract renewed under any circumstances even if Kelly was released in a preemptive move by MLSE. She wouldn't have been eligible for severance as she was contract employee. Depending upon the wording in Kelly's contract, possible morality clauses, he could still be owed a lot of money even if he was released.

[paulwoods13]

I'm sensing less confidence from you in the credibility of the investigation compared to last night.

Your senses are not correct.

[ARGOMAN 27]

Oh Gosh who cares--let's go TAILGATES- fun- KELLY -CAM DUKES or MASOLI--LETS GO! Yes you heard it here first MASOLI. GO ARGOS

[kellynjk]

I find it curious that the CFL hired a security firm to do the independent investigation, and based in Saskatchewan no less. If you look at their web site, their investigators are basically all ex police officers. I don’t live in Ontario any more, but here in BC numerous cases are referred by the police to Crown Counsel for charges, and they never get to court because the Crown Counsel lawyers deem there is insufficient evidence to get a conviction. The choice of this security firm was a poor choice by the CFL in my opinion and one has to wonder why they were chosen.


While it is true that the CFL could have used a firm / consultant with expertise in either workplace issues or even harassment in the workplace, I don’t think hiring this particular firm means that they didn’t do a thorough or fair investigation. It seems from Naylor’s article that the investigators sought to corroborate each and every incident, which is what you would want any good investigation team to do.


Unfortunately in Naylor’s report, we are not given all the evidence gathered in the independent investigation. It would be really helpful to have supporting evidence from people around both the coach and Kelly to fully understand what happened and what mitigating circumstances there might be related to each of the episodes. Cherry picking out parts of the report is not helpful to anyone, unless you have a particular bias against someone. Drawing conclusions without any basis in fact is not acceptable at least in a court of law.


While it’s true that it’s difficult to know happened without knowing all the details and supporting evidence from people who witnessed or were involved in the episodes, it doesn’t negate the fact that Kelly continually harassed the conditioning coach. (e.g repeated emails etc).


I mentioned in a previous post, I was part of a sexual harassment case in a previous job (I was acting Director at the time, so had to be briefed on the progress of the case, the accusations, etc.).


I noted previously that the Human Rights Code defines harassment as "engaging in a course of vexatious (annoying or provoking) comment or conduct which is known or ought reasonably to be known to be unwelcome." It goes on to give examples of what type of behaviour might be considered "sexual harassment" which does include things like asking for dates and not taking no for an answer, or making jokes or comments about a person's appearance, making sexual jokes or bragging about sexual ability etc.


And based on that definition alone, it sounds like Kelly is guilty of harassment, because over 2 years, he repeatedly approached this coach about dates, sending emails, etc. which were obviously "unwelcome."


It would be of interest to know what training is given the Argo’s organization employees regarding harassment in the workplace. Did Kelly know, or should he have known that inviting another employee to his hotel room could be sexual harassment for example?


On this point, I would have to disagree. In this day and age, I think most intelligent men know that repeatedly approaching a woman in the workplace or anywhere else when the woman has said she is not interested or is involved with someone else, is inappropriate.


I have no sympathy for Kelly - he has brought all of this on himself. I feel for the strength and conditioning coach whose contract was not renewed (and maybe for valid reasons, if the Argos felt they needed someone with different skills). It still could not have been pleasant for her to have to deal with Kelly in the workplace when it seems like he would not take no for an answer. Also what about this “girlfriend that Kelly is supposed to have and be madly in love with” - ugh!

I personally would like to see the Argos cut ties with Kelly. He may be a talented quarterback, but I think he's an immature man with lots of issues (anger management to name one) and I think he will continue to cause problems for the Argos if he sticks around.

[Shatto]

The Players Association has filed to obtain access to the full report. They claim their previous requests have been denied. Not a good move by the league to have denied the association access to the full report considering the severity of the disciplinary actions imposed by the league.

Hopefully the team will move quickly on the decision of the team's starting QB so we can start paying a little more attention to the on field activities.

[Waffle]

Are you able to expand on the bolded paragraph?

My gripe about the CFL picking this firm is that they should have picked a firm that has experience with the Ontario Human Rights Code, and who could pass a legal opinion about investigative findings. The CFL acted on the conclusions, one of which at least had no facts backing it up (the she said he said complaint).


I only lived in Regina for a year, but I can’t recall anyone I had a conversation with who didn’t trash Toronto and/or the Argos (I was born in Toronto so that is my bias). Agreed it is a limited sample and perhaps the people in this firm had no bias in their investigations, but you can get answers you want according to how you ask questions, and these investigations would not have been conducted under any kind of oath.


So, I believe there is room for skepticism about the conclusions that were drawn. Having said that, two of them may well be correct, although again, we don't know of any mitigating circumstances that might make the conclusions not stand up in court.

[Rich]

Perhaps nobody could make it out there -- I would've thought, however, that media might have been curious to see if the Argos changed their tune a bit about having Kelly on the field given the reaction from yesterday.

How will people express their deep outrage over Kelly lurking on the sidelines at TC if there is no media there to report that it’s happening? And if a tree falls in the forest, does anybody hear?

[1971GreyCup]

Within a week the positive Quantez Stiggers NFL draft publicity of the CFL as a route to the NFL has turned into how the CFL could be a graveyard to your career, even if you’re the CFL MOP. USFL likely the last avenue for many American football players.

I am not defending the boorish behaviour displayed here for a minute. I have 3 daughters and a wife.

Disrespectful is never ok.

But so many people want to destroy Chad Kelly, the Argos & Pinball Clemons for behaviour that violates a CFL workplace policy. Ontario Health & Safety Policy.

That policy includes “repeatedly asking one for a date.” Cancel culture once again. Heads have to roll. It’s vicious out there. Which is curious because the internal report was kept private.

I see the recent direction of the CFL to become more & more inclusive to all was noble. But I get feeling that much of the words now appear to be - just words. When push came to shove, according to reports of the internal CFL goings on, a number of female employees quit over the handling of this case.

”Pinball” Clemons, the epitome of respect & dignity, seems to be dragged into the muck.

I got the sense that watching Pinball talk at practice, was watching an exercise equivalent to tiptoeing through a minefield. Chad Kelly hasn’t been proved guilty. There is an active Civil case going on. There are multiple (MLSE/CFL/Ontario gender sexual harassment workplace policies) to consider. Pinball tried to respect the rights of the accuser & accused. Of course, the media/social media is baying for blood. Every word was parsed. A small number of his words have been used to try and cancel him.

Whatever the results of this case, the number of firings required, if any, the league will never be the same. Even the current CFL Commissioner’s future isn’t assured.

Strong leadership of the league should acted months ago. An awful workplace experience between two contractors to the league should never have been allowed to escalate to this point.

[paulwoods13]

Clearly the Argos cannot cling to Kelly and expect this to just blow over. The heat will just get hotter and hotter. Every other team is running social media content whipping up enthusiasm for what's going on in camp, new players, etc. Argos are silent. The notion that Kelly can somehow still be the face of the franchise is beyond laughable and well into tragic.

[Scooter McCray]

Twitter is a cesspool. Pinball has to walk a tight rope on what he is able to say because of the ongoing lawsuits against the team and Kelly. His reputation being dragged through the mud is one of the hard things to watch in all of this. Pinball is the GM. Strong leadership at the executive level could have dealt with the matter do that it didn't fester for 2 years, and strong leadership could have stepped in this week and understood that the optics of having Kelly attend practice was not a good idea. Nothing positive was ever going to come of that in the world we now live in.

[Will]

My gripe about the CFL picking this firm is that they should have picked a firm that has experience with the Ontario Human Rights Code, and who could pass a legal opinion about investigative findings. The CFL acted on the conclusions, one of which at least had no facts backing it up (the she said he said complaint).


I only lived in Regina for a year, but I can’t recall anyone I had a conversation with who didn’t trash Toronto and/or the Argos (I was born in Toronto so that is my bias). Agreed it is a limited sample and perhaps the people in this firm had no bias in their investigations, but you can get answers you want according to how you ask questions, and these investigations would not have been conducted under any kind of oath.


So, I believe there is room for skepticism about the conclusions that were drawn. Having said that, two of them may well be correct, although again, we don't know of any mitigating circumstances that might make the conclusions not stand up in court.

While I'm aware of the Western Canada animus for Toronto, I just can't see a scenario where this form in Regina (perhaps made up of Rider fans) decided to come to conclusions that would get Kelly suspended, and thus impact the Argos chances.

[Will]

Twitter is a cesspool. Pinball has to walk a tight rope on what he is able to say because of the ongoing lawsuits against the team and Kelly. His reputation being dragged through the mud is one of the hard things to watch in all of this. Pinball is the GM. Strong leadership at the executive level could have dealt with the matter do that it didn't fester for 2 years, and strong leadership could have stepped in this week and understood that the optics of having Kelly attend practice was not a good idea. Nothing positive was ever going to come of that in the world we now live in.

Pinball could've made that decision as well.

[1971GreyCup]

Mike “Pinball” Clemons is once again under criticism from Canadians from “coast to coast.” Social media is quite something.

I guess Mike didn’t consult with them prior to making some tough decisions and therefore deserves their rath.

I do know Mike’s personal position on criticism as he has stated it many times.

He often quotes Theodore Roosevelt’s “Man in the Arena.”

Sometimes I think Canada doesn’t deserve Mike & Diane Clemons.

Man in the Arena

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

[Will]

Mike “Pinball” Clemons is once again under criticism from Canadians from “coast to coast.” Social media is quite something.

I guess Mike didn’t consult with them prior to making some tough decisions and therefore deserves their rath.

I do know Mike’s personal position on criticism as he has stated it many times.

He often quotes Theodore Roosevelt’s “Man in the Arena.”

Man in the Arena

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

I am not happy with the way Pinball handled the press conference on Thursday. He may have been dealt a bad hand, but the man isn't perfect.

[paulwoods13]

Turn back the clock 52 weeks. We were all eagerly anticipating the Grey Cup banner ceremony and about to embark on a joyous season-long celebration of 150 years of Argonauts football. We were giddy with anticipation to see new players like Pickett and Flo in action. All was good in Argo land.

Now our social media team can't even put routine training camp footage online because they'll be pilloried for being tone deaf, we're almost afraid to find out that the starting QB and league MOP is on the field, and some (many) of us don't want that player to suit up ever again. This is an utterly abysmal situation.

[1971GreyCup]

Where did I say he was perfect?

I know he gets up every morning asking what he can do for others?

How many others do that?

I know he’s suffered under this matter.

Honestly, if the mob rage is high enough and he walks away. Who are the losers?