Perhaps we have to accept that this is simply not a very good team?

[Will]

Just throwing this one out there. Will have more thoughts after work.

[ArgoGabe22]

Were we naïve to assume our past record of recruiting and drafting were going to fill the spots lost with success? The secondary was always a concern since losing Peters and Stiggers. Losing Mace and having co-coordinators also raised some concern. Lack of veteran QB behind Kelly were all brought up in the offseason. Losing Ciraco wasn't expected. So is it a surprise this team isn't doing as well as we thought? Is not enough credit given to Montreal and Ottawa or strengthen their teams. Maybe looking at the situation now without an Argo bias, should we really be surprised with what we are seeing on the field?

[Unplayable]

A couple of snapshots from PFF rankings.

CFL Week 11 Defensive Line Rankings:
1. TORONTO ARGONAUTS (NO CHANGE)
Base Defensive Set: Even Front
Field EDGE: Folarin Orimolade Field; DI: Jake Ceresna; Boundary DI: Ralph Holley; Boundary EDGE: Robbie Smith
• The Argonauts are the clear-cut top defensive line in the CFL. They rank first in all three grading categories: 89.8 overall, 84.5 in run defense and 85.7 in pass rush.
• Jared Brinkman, currently on the injured list, is the Argonauts' top defensive lineman of the first half of the season. He has earned grades of 87.7 overall, 91.3 in run defense and 73.4 in. pass rush.
• Brinkman and edge defender Folarin Orimolade would make my CFL East All-Star team. Orimolade has earned grades of 83.0 overall, 68.8 in run defense and 79.0 in pass rush.

CFL Week 13 Offensive Line Rankings:
1. TORONTO ARGONAUTS (NO CHANGE)
LT Isiah Cage; LG Ryan Hunter; C Peter Nicastro; RG Anthony Vandal; RT Dejon Allen
• Toronto bounced back in Week 13 and finished with 60.0-plus PFF grades in all three categories. The unit's 69.8 pass-blocking grade was the second-highest mark in the CFL in Week 13.
• Dejon Allen was the top pass-protecting offensive tackle this past week. He finished with an 82.0 grade and zero pressures allowed across 35 snaps. Cage (73.4) and Nicastro (72.6) also earned 70.0-plus pass-blocking grades.

As far as defensive backs go, Toronto has the 5th and 8th highest paid players (Metchie and Amos) and no one else in the top 15.

Its hard to know about other offensive players as their stats are so dependent on QB play.

On paper the Argos should be able to match up with any team in the league, and they have beaten every team except Hamilton. What can’t be measured is the will to win (which is partly execution), especially in road games.

[paulwoods13]

On paper the Argos should be able to match up with any team in the league, and they have beaten every team except Hamilton. What can’t be measured is the will to win (which is partly execution), especially in road games.

And Ottawa.

The PFF rankings don't reflect what I'm seeing on the field. (Why is the defensive line ranking from week 11 instead of week 13?)

[Will]

Were we naïve to assume our past record of recruiting and drafting were going to fill the spots lost with success? The secondary was always a concern since losing Peters and Stiggers. Losing Mace and having co-coordinators also raised some concern. Lack of veteran QB behind Kelly were all brought up in the offseason. Losing Ciraco wasn't expected. So is it a surprise this team isn't doing as well as we thought? Is not enough credit given to Montreal and Ottawa or strengthen their teams. Maybe looking at the situation now without an Argo bias, should we really be surprised with what we are seeing on the field?

I don't think we were naive to expect a 10-8 or 11-7 season, which is still theoretically possible, but difficult at this point.

[shatto]

The team has excellent WRs, especially if Brissett returns and Mitel gets more playing time. Both CBs are playing well. There is no reason to doubt that Kelly can't bounce back to his 2023 form, given more playing time. The OL and DL must improve. When McManis and Brinkman return the D should start to improve. Hunter's return should help the OL big time. Personally, I;d like to see Giffen at RG.
We have to remember Montreal came on strong in the latter part of last season. If the Argos can solve the OL and DL issues, there is a chance they could also do just as well in the last part of the season,

Well there is some positive thinking!!!!!!!

[gilthethrill]

Were we naïve to assume our past record of recruiting and drafting were going to fill the spots lost with success? The secondary was always a concern since losing Peters and Stiggers. Losing Mace and having co-coordinators also raised some concern. Lack of veteran QB behind Kelly were all brought up in the offseason. Losing Ciraco wasn't expected. So is it a surprise this team isn't doing as well as we thought? Is not enough credit given to Montreal and Ottawa or strengthen their teams. Maybe looking at the situation now without an Argo bias, should we really be surprised with what we are seeing on the field?

I don't think we were naive to expect a 10-8 or 11-7 season, which is still theoretically possible, but difficult at this point.

Will, the team is on a 2 game losing streak....really?

[OV Argo]

The team has excellent WRs, especially if Brissett returns and Mitel gets more playing time. Both CBs are playing well. There is no reason to doubt that Kelly can't bounce back to his 2023 form, given more playing time. The OL and DL must improve. When McManis and Brinkman return the D should start to improve. Hunter's return should help the OL big time. Personally, I;d like to see Giffen at RG.
We have to remember Montreal came on strong in the latter part of last season. If the Argos can solve the OL and DL issues, there is a chance they could also do just as well in the last part of the season,

Well there is some positive thinking!!!!!!!

Agreed, and I'd also throw in Dinwiddie needs to learn the value of an applied and consistent ground game with 3 good backs (rather than mouthing platitudes about it); and the new co_DCs have to learn better schemes, adjustments and personnel decisions.

The supposed powerful Als already lost to the Argos this season and just got thumped at home by a previous in the dumps BC Lions. There is no real strong team this season IMO; outside of the useless gong show Pussycats & Stumps, anybody could take the GC this year, IMO.

[AngeloV]

The team has excellent WRs, especially if Brissett returns and Mitel gets more playing time. Both CBs are playing well. There is no reason to doubt that Kelly can't bounce back to his 2023 form, given more playing time. The OL and DL must improve. When McManis and Brinkman return the D should start to improve. Hunter's return should help the OL big time. Personally, I;d like to see Giffen at RG.
We have to remember Montreal came on strong in the latter part of last season. If the Argos can solve the OL and DL issues, there is a chance they could also do just as well in the last part of the season,

Well there is some positive thinking!!!!!!!

I agree 100%. I think there is just a huge overreaction when things don’t go as expected re: the last 2 games.

[Will]

Were we naïve to assume our past record of recruiting and drafting were going to fill the spots lost with success? The secondary was always a concern since losing Peters and Stiggers. Losing Mace and having co-coordinators also raised some concern. Lack of veteran QB behind Kelly were all brought up in the offseason. Losing Ciraco wasn't expected. So is it a surprise this team isn't doing as well as we thought? Is not enough credit given to Montreal and Ottawa or strengthen their teams. Maybe looking at the situation now without an Argo bias, should we really be surprised with what we are seeing on the field?

I don't think we were naive to expect a 10-8 or 11-7 season, which is still theoretically possible, but difficult at this point.

Will, the team is on a 2 game losing streak....really?

Yeah, really, I don't like the way the team is trending right now.