111TH GREY CUP THREAD - BOMBERS @ ARGOS

[ArgoRavi]

This is apropos of nothing, really, but if anyone has an hour or so to spare, it's quite something to read the main Grey Cup thread over on Morning Big Blue. The overconfidence/hubris before the game are astonishing; the recriminations/anger after are breathtaking.

I listened to the live Bonfire podcast (I think that's what it it called - Darrin Bauming co-hosts) for a while last night after the game. There was definitely a lot of anger and deep disappointment there (understandably). The Argos really handed it to the Bombers last night. So many were so sure that the Argos had little chance with Arbuckle at QB.

[Scooter McCray]

Oh, and one of the dumbest things I have ever heard on 3DownNation's podcast (and there have been a few over the years) was Justin Dunk's assertion that "Toronto is a house of cards. You talk to people around the league and they're surprised the Argos are here without a true president. And Michael Pinball Clemons, with all due respect, is not a true general manager of this football team. . . . It's a house of cards."

Fact check: The Argos do not have a president, true. Pinball is not a general manager in the traditional sense, true. And yet somehow they not only made it to their second Grey Cup game in three years, but they won it going away despite an injury to their starting QB. Some house of cards, eh?

That is an ignorant statement by Dunk. The structure of the team is not traditional but it quite clearly has Pinballs fingerprints all over it because the stability and success of the on field team began once he was involved. He wants to hate on Clemons for his perception of how he handled the Kelly situation. That's his perogative, but I have faith in Pinballs ability to improve the Argos ability to manage those situations and minimize them going forward. He is not a status quo leader. Some of the hate for Pinball on social media is quite ignorant just like Dunks. His body of work on and off the field and in the community speaks for itself. To define him because of his handling of one situation is unfair.

[jerrym]

Another Argo "underdog" victory, like the last three! Love it! Hats off to Arbuckle. The only said thing about his performance is that it may be hard to keep him in free agency, since he is still likely to be a backup to Kelly for years if he stays in Toronto and other teams are likely to come calling for him, including the Bombers as Collaros is 37 next year. Collaros hasn't looked as sharp in a number of games this year as he used to.

[paulwoods13]

Another Argo "underdog" victory, like the last three! Love it! Hats off to Arbuckle. The only said thing about his performance is that it may be hard to keep him in free agency, since he is still likely to be a backup to Kelly for years if he stays in Toronto and other teams are likely to come calling for him, including the Bombers as Collaros is 37 next year. Collaros hasn't looked as sharp in a number of games this year as he used to.

There are a lot of QBs heading into free agency -- one of Mtl's two guys, Arbuckle, Dukes, Harris, Ford, MBT and Maier -- plus Vernon Adams will be available in trade. Potentially two or three starting jobs will be available: Edm, Cal and maybe Sask. I personally doubt any team would anoint Arbuckle as a starter after what he has shown over the past six seasons. IMO his best play (and the Argos' best play) would be a decent backup-QB contract here ($150kish), with generous playing-time bonuses in case Kelly misses a lot of time. I think Dukes will be looking to sign elsewhere, for a backup/understudy role.

[paulwoods13]

I think it is worth noting that the Argos had 12 (!) of their own draft picks in the lineup yesterday. Three more on the practice roster and three more on the injured list. The scouting staff that was led until earlier this year by Vince Magi and Alex Russell has done an absolutely superb job of stocking this team with NAT talent. (Not to mention the guys we've let go who have moved to other clubs, like Knight, Acheampong, Gittens, etc.)

[RB957]

Oh, and one of the dumbest things I have ever heard on 3DownNation's podcast (and there have been a few over the years) was Justin Dunk's assertion that "Toronto is a house of cards. You talk to people around the league and they're surprised the Argos are here without a true president. And Michael Pinball Clemons, with all due respect, is not a true general manager of this football team. . . . It's a house of cards."

Fact check: The Argos do not have a president, true. Pinball is not a general manager in the traditional sense, true. And yet somehow they not only made it to their second Grey Cup game in three years, but they won it going away despite an injury to their starting QB. Some house of cards, eh?

Perfectly said!

What a great win... all three phases of the game contributed to the win. So happy for Nick Arbuckle. Given his life story and all the ups and downs in his career, no matter what happens now, no one can take this magical moment away from him. Ryan Dinwiddie coached a brilliant game, and our D was rock solid. Even though Brady Oliviera got 80 yds rushing, 55 of that came on two plays, so we basically negated his impact in the game. The cohesiveness of this team and their belief in each other was truly something. It was also nice at the end of the game, when one of the players (can't remember who) held a Chad Kelly jersey to the camera and said "We did this for you". Very classy.

I saw on the news that the GC celebration will be held Tuesday November 19th, 11 am - 1 pm at Sankofa Square (Yonge and Dundas). Hope to see you there. By "you", I mean the true loyal forever fans. I hate to say it, but sometimes I feel like this city doesn't deserve a team like the Argos, the way they are disregarded. But today, they are Champions and we celebrate!!

[RB957]

Oh, and one of the dumbest things I have ever heard on 3DownNation's podcast (and there have been a few over the years) was Justin Dunk's assertion that "Toronto is a house of cards. You talk to people around the league and they're surprised the Argos are here without a true president. And Michael Pinball Clemons, with all due respect, is not a true general manager of this football team. . . . It's a house of cards."

Fact check: The Argos do not have a president, true. Pinball is not a general manager in the traditional sense, true. And yet somehow they not only made it to their second Grey Cup game in three years, but they won it going away despite an injury to their starting QB. Some house of cards, eh?

Perfectly said!

What a great win... all three phases of the game contributed to the win. So happy for Nick Arbuckle. Given his life story and all the ups and downs in his career, no matter what happens now, no one can take this magical moment away from him. Ryan Dinwiddie coached a brilliant game, and our D was rock solid. Even though Brady Oliviera got 80 yds rushing, 55 of that came on two plays, so we basically negated his impact in the game. The cohesiveness of this team and their belief in each other was truly something. It was also nice at the end of the game, when one of the players (can't remember who) held a Chad Kelly jersey to the camera and said "We did this for you". Very classy.

I saw on the news that the GC celebration will be held Tuesday November 19th, 11 am - 1 pm at Sankofa Square (Yonge and Dundas). Hope to see you there. By "you", I mean the true loyal forever fans. I hate to say it, but sometimes I feel like this city doesn't deserve a team like the Argos, the way they are disregarded. But today, they are Champions and we celebrate!!

CORRECTION: GC Celebration is at Maple Leaf Square.... my bad. Shouldn't listen to the wife!! LOL

[ARGO57]

This is apropos of nothing, really, but if anyone has an hour or so to spare, it's quite something to read the main Grey Cup thread over on Morning Big Blue. The overconfidence/hubris before the game are astonishing; the recriminations/anger after are breathtaking.

I’ll gladly make time for that.

[ARGO57]

Another Argo "underdog" victory, like the last three! Love it! Hats off to Arbuckle. The only said thing about his performance is that it may be hard to keep him in free agency, since he is still likely to be a backup to Kelly for years if he stays in Toronto and other teams are likely to come calling for him, including the Bombers as Collaros is 37 next year. Collaros hasn't looked as sharp in a number of games this year as he used to.

I think it would be in Arbuckle’s best interest to re-sign with the Argonauts who have a coach who believes in him, knows his capabilities and can design an offensive scheme that fosters success.

[OV Argo]

Another Argo "underdog" victory, like the last three! Love it! Hats off to Arbuckle. The only said thing about his performance is that it may be hard to keep him in free agency, since he is still likely to be a backup to Kelly for years if he stays in Toronto and other teams are likely to come calling for him, including the Bombers as Collaros is 37 next year. Collaros hasn't looked as sharp in a number of games this year as he used to.

I think it would be in Arbuckle’s best interest to re-sign with the Argonauts who have a coach who believes in him, knows his capabilities and can design an offensive scheme that fosters success.

No CFL team is going to sign Arbucukle - even after yesterday's game - and expect him to be fighting it out for #1.

Davis Alexander is likely the next Dru Brown (or Nick Arbuckle before that) - young QBs anointed sure-fire star starters cause they had a couple of good games as back-ups on strong teams. Good luck with that.

Collaros is maybe done IMO; he is still capable of some very good games and making the odd great throw, but his mistakes now are glaringly bad and cost his team games; loss of some respect for him started for me with that game in Ottawa 2 years back where he threw a pick - a gift in the flats, deep in his own end, late in the game with a lead - that cost them the game; then later in the year, a feeble attempt at a throw-away under pressure goes right into the hands of a DB for a pick 6. All-time great QBs just do NOT make such pathetic plays IMO. I know he should go into the HOF for a fine career, but my opinion of him is sort of like I felt about Anthony Calvillo - talented QBs with good arms who had long, successful careers on very strong teams; BUT, neither is even close to a top 10 all-time CFL QB talent IMO; neither is/was the brightest bulb as a QB & football player; more like just not smart enough QB IQs.