Benjie Franklin

[OV Argo]

The age factor is against Franklin. As OV points out, he has had his NFL shot, plus is now 28, He might get a look see but not likely to get any serious consideration by the NFL. OV also raises an interesting question about Pierce, who looked so good last year but gets cut this year. But even more interesting is that no other team picked him up.

This is also why I don't get too worked up about CFL players getting workouts or even signing in the NFL, as the NFL doesn't seem to have a lot of interest in CFL players in this day and age. The NFL looks at these players as ones they have already passed over so are less inclined to look at them again because they couldn't have possibly been wrong the first time! It is also true that Franklin's age will work against him.

Very different times now Ravi, compared to say back in the 80s, re NFL interest in CFL talent. And not sure I get why with more NFL teams with larger rosters now? - but again this is good for the CFL.

After the 84 season, the Ticats (had played in the GC), lost to the NFL: starting QB Dieter Brock; productive receiver Ron Johnson, and all-star DB Felix Wright

[argolio]

The age factor is against Franklin. As OV points out, he has had his NFL shot, plus is now 28, He might get a look see but not likely to get any serious consideration by the NFL. OV also raises an interesting question about Pierce, who looked so good last year but gets cut this year. But even more interesting is that no other team picked him up.

This is also why I don't get too worked up about CFL players getting workouts or even signing in the NFL, as the NFL doesn't seem to have a lot of interest in CFL players in this day and age. The NFL looks at these players as ones they have already passed over so are less inclined to look at them again because they couldn't have possibly been wrong the first time! It is also true that Franklin's age will work against him.

Very different times now Ravi, compared to say back in the 80s, re NFL interest in CFL talent. And not sure I get why with more NFL teams with larger rosters now? - but again this is good for the CFL.

After the 84 season, the Ticats (had played in the GC), lost to the NFL: starting QB Dieter Brock; productive receiver Ron Johnson, and all-star DB Felix Wright

Not much different then other than Brock, who got the benefit of NFL teams looking for another Warren Moon one year later. Wright worked out for four teams before getting a contract, and spent most of his first NFL year on special teams. Johnson went from Hamilton to the USFL, then got an NFL tryout because his USFL coach had NFL contacts.

[OV Argo]

This is also why I don't get too worked up about CFL players getting workouts or even signing in the NFL, as the NFL doesn't seem to have a lot of interest in CFL players in this day and age. The NFL looks at these players as ones they have already passed over so are less inclined to look at them again because they couldn't have possibly been wrong the first time! It is also true that Franklin's age will work against him.

Very different times now Ravi, compared to say back in the 80s, re NFL interest in CFL talent. And not sure I get why with more NFL teams with larger rosters now? - but again this is good for the CFL.

After the 84 season, the Ticats (had played in the GC), lost to the NFL: starting QB Dieter Brock; productive receiver Ron Johnson, and all-star DB Felix Wright

Not much different then other than Brock, who got the benefit of NFL teams looking for another Warren Moon one year later. Wright worked out for four teams before getting a contract, and spent most of his first NFL year on special teams. Johnson went from Hamilton to the USFL, then got an NFL tryout because his USFL coach had NFL contacts.

So, you're saying it's basically the same now?


Can u name another NFL team in the past 3 decades who has signed a CFL QB to be their instant starter? Name another CFL team that has lost 3 key players to the NFL after a season who went on to play multiple seasons there (Wright, FYI, went on the lead the entire NFL in interceptions in a season; Johnson had production for the Eagles as a receiver) ? And Warren Moon didn't light up the NFL in his first season there leading to NFL teams saying - wow, let's look at a bunch of these CFL star QBs; Brock set the Rams single season completion & mark in his season there and helped lead them to the NFC title game ... so why weren't 4 or 5 other star CFL QBs signed for down there shortly afterwards ? Brock, like Moon, was signed by a particular NFL team/regime cause they knew of him and had respect for his talent - that is long gone now for CFL QBs.

SOME NFL teams used to have more respect for accomplished CFL talent and the result was many more CFL players getting NFL try-outs every off-season - in the days of less NFL teams with smaller rosters. That has changed now to where it's mostly about having some sort of NFL connection (agent, a coach or buddy on an NFL staff) for a CFL player to get a serious look. Has next to zero to do with how much football skill the guy showed in the CFL.

[argolio]

Very different times now Ravi, compared to say back in the 80s, re NFL interest in CFL talent. And not sure I get why with more NFL teams with larger rosters now? - but again this is good for the CFL.

After the 84 season, the Ticats (had played in the GC), lost to the NFL: starting QB Dieter Brock; productive receiver Ron Johnson, and all-star DB Felix Wright

Not much different then other than Brock, who got the benefit of NFL teams looking for another Warren Moon one year later. Wright worked out for four teams before getting a contract, and spent most of his first NFL year on special teams. Johnson went from Hamilton to the USFL, then got an NFL tryout because his USFL coach had NFL contacts.

So, you're saying it's basically the same now?


Can u name another NFL team in the past 3 decades who has signed a CFL QB to be their instant starter? Name another CFL team that has lost 3 key players to the NFL after a season who went on to play multiple seasons there (Wright, FYI, went on the lead the entire NFL in interceptions in a season; Johnson had production for the Eagles as a receiver) ? And Warren Moon didn't light up the NFL in his first season there leading to NFL teams saying - wow, let's look at a bunch of these CFL star QBs; Brock set the Rams single season completion & mark in his season there and helped lead them to the NFC title game ... so why weren't 4 or 5 other star CFL QBs signed for down there shortly afterwards ? Brock, like Moon, was signed by a particular NFL team/regime cause they knew of him and had respect for his talent - that is long gone now for CFL QBs.

SOME NFL teams used to have more respect for accomplished CFL talent and the result was many more CFL players getting NFL try-outs every off-season - in the days of less NFL teams with smaller rosters. That has changed now to where it's mostly about having some sort of NFL connection (agent, a coach or buddy on an NFL staff) for a CFL player to get a serious look. Has next to zero to do with how much football skill the guy showed in the CFL.

I see it as more or less the same. Outside of Moon, who actual GOBs (racist white guys) kept out of the NFL, what CFL player was signed to be an immediate starter? Felix Wright wasn't, and Ron Johnson didn't get his shot until he went to another league. They both started out competing with rookies and free agents like pretty much every other CFL player who has ever gone south. Even Brock's path to the Rams isn't totally clear. And if Felix Wright got this alleged respect, why didn't Terry Greer and Jeff Boyd get it from Cleveland?

The only difference now is that there's an official mechanism where the NFL doesn't even have lift a finger regarding CFL players. The tryout window lets anyone send out a highlight tape and try to set up workouts.

There were other 80s CFL QBs who went south: Eric Kramer, Mike Hohensee, Sean Salisbury.

[OV Argo]

Not much different then other than Brock, who got the benefit of NFL teams looking for another Warren Moon one year later. Wright worked out for four teams before getting a contract, and spent most of his first NFL year on special teams. Johnson went from Hamilton to the USFL, then got an NFL tryout because his USFL coach had NFL contacts.

So, you're saying it's basically the same now?


Can u name another NFL team in the past 3 decades who has signed a CFL QB to be their instant starter? Name another CFL team that has lost 3 key players to the NFL after a season who went on to play multiple seasons there (Wright, FYI, went on the lead the entire NFL in interceptions in a season; Johnson had production for the Eagles as a receiver) ? And Warren Moon didn't light up the NFL in his first season there leading to NFL teams saying - wow, let's look at a bunch of these CFL star QBs; Brock set the Rams single season completion & mark in his season there and helped lead them to the NFC title game ... so why weren't 4 or 5 other star CFL QBs signed for down there shortly afterwards ? Brock, like Moon, was signed by a particular NFL team/regime cause they knew of him and had respect for his talent - that is long gone now for CFL QBs.

SOME NFL teams used to have more respect for accomplished CFL talent and the result was many more CFL players getting NFL try-outs every off-season - in the days of less NFL teams with smaller rosters. That has changed now to where it's mostly about having some sort of NFL connection (agent, a coach or buddy on an NFL staff) for a CFL player to get a serious look. Has next to zero to do with how much football skill the guy showed in the CFL.

I see it as more or less the same. Outside of Moon, who actual GOBs (racist white guys) kept out of the NFL, what CFL player was signed to be an immediate starter? Felix Wright wasn't, and Ron Johnson didn't get his shot until he went to another league. They both started out competing with rookies and free agents like pretty much every other CFL player who has ever gone south. Even Brock's path to the Rams isn't totally clear. And if Felix Wright got this alleged respect, why didn't Terry Greer and Jeff Boyd get it from Cleveland?

The only difference now is that there's an official mechanism where the NFL doesn't even have lift a finger regarding CFL players. The tryout window lets anyone send out a highlight tape and try to set up workouts.

There were other 80s CFL QBs who went south: Eric Kramer, Mike Hohensee, Sean Salisbury.

???

Brock was signed to a big NFL contract to be the Rams presumptive starter. Cause HC Robinson or some other Rams brass there knew of him and liked him; not because Brock's agent could line-up some Mickey Mouse NFL try-out tour like Nathan Rourke had to go thru just to get to an NFL TC. If you can't see the difference there, I don't know what to say.

Kramer & Salisbury were both in the NFL first and then went from a bit of CFL back to the NFL where they were already known. Had zero to do with their CFL play (and Kramer was useless with the Stamps anyways)

Wright was an outstanding CFL DB - he wasn't about to be handed an NFL starting job but he got there mostly cause of his more than one season of very good CFL play, and I doubt just because his agent knew somebody. The Browns were obviously clueless on Greer, but again he got down there after several seasons of superb CFL play - and that little detail is mostly meaningless to the NFL experts now.

[argolio]

???

Brock was signed to a big NFL contract to be the Rams presumptive starter. Cause HC Robinson or some other Rams brass there knew of him and liked him; not because Brock's agent could line-up some Mickey Mouse NFL try-out tour like Nathan Rourke had to go thru just to get to an NFL TC. If you can't see the difference there, I don't know what to say.

Kramer & Salisbury were both in the NFL first and then went from a bit of CFL back to the NFL where they were already known. Had zero to do with their CFL play (and Kramer was useless with the Stamps anyways)

Wright was an outstanding CFL DB - he wasn't about to be handed an NFL starting job but he got there mostly cause of his more than one season of very good CFL play, and I doubt just because his agent knew somebody. The Browns were obviously clueless on Greer, but again he got down there after several seasons of superb CFL play - and that little detail is mostly meaningless to the NFL experts now.

"Cause HC Robinson or some other Rams brass knew of him first..." So you also don't know the details either. Found two things online, first one from a Rams fan site, second from bluebombers.com::

After the 1984 CFL season Brock, then 33, worked out for five NFL teams and had offers from four.

Brock signed with the Los Angeles Rams as a 33-year-old NFL rookie after his CFL days after a 20-minute workout for then-Rams head coach John Robinson

Felix Wright got to the Houston Oilers main camp after a successful free agent tryout, and after being released was then given a tryout by Hamilton. He was handed not just a roster spot but a starting job after only a few days with the team. And as I said earlier, Wright had workouts with four NFL teams before the Browns signed him. Mickey Mouse tryouts seemed to be as common in the 80s as they are now.

Not sure how the the Browns could have been impressed with Felix Wright's outstanding CFL play while at the same time being clueless on a guy in Terry Greer who often embarrassed Wright in the CFL.

[OV Argo]

???

Brock was signed to a big NFL contract to be the Rams presumptive starter. Cause HC Robinson or some other Rams brass there knew of him and liked him; not because Brock's agent could line-up some Mickey Mouse NFL try-out tour like Nathan Rourke had to go thru just to get to an NFL TC. If you can't see the difference there, I don't know what to say.

Kramer & Salisbury were both in the NFL first and then went from a bit of CFL back to the NFL where they were already known. Had zero to do with their CFL play (and Kramer was useless with the Stamps anyways)

Wright was an outstanding CFL DB - he wasn't about to be handed an NFL starting job but he got there mostly cause of his more than one season of very good CFL play, and I doubt just because his agent knew somebody. The Browns were obviously clueless on Greer, but again he got down there after several seasons of superb CFL play - and that little detail is mostly meaningless to the NFL experts now.

"Cause HC Robinson or some other Rams brass knew of him first..." So you also don't know the details either. Found two things online, first one from a Rams fan site, second from bluebombers.com::

After the 1984 CFL season Brock, then 33, worked out for five NFL teams and had offers from four.

Brock signed with the Los Angeles Rams as a 33-year-old NFL rookie after his CFL days after a 20-minute workout for then-Rams head coach John Robinson

Felix Wright got to the Houston Oilers main camp after a successful free agent tryout, and after being released was then given a tryout by Hamilton. He was handed not just a roster spot but a starting job after only a few days with the team. And as I said earlier, Wright had workouts with four NFL teams before the Browns signed him. Mickey Mouse tryouts seemed to be as common in the 80s as they are now.

Not sure how the the Browns could have been impressed with Felix Wright's outstanding CFL play while at the same time being clueless on a guy in Terry Greer who often embarrassed Wright in the CFL.

You just don't get the point - which is, basically, many years ago (80s say) wayyyyyyyy more CFL players got signed to NFL try-outs, and made NFL rosters, after being very good CFL players (often several years of stand-out CFL play), compared to nowdays. Wether they had to have a try-out with more than one team at first was because, same as now, if they were not NFL drafted, that's how it could work.

And Brock was signed to be the Rams starter (like Moon was signed to be the Oilers starter); your attempts to look up some sort of proof otherwise is Ok, but i was around back then following both the CFL & NFL.

As far as Greer, I doubt it was the same Browns' defensive specialty coaches who saw how good Felix Wright was, who decided Greer was not that good - they, like a lot of football coaches do with some players, missed the boat big-time on his talent, and played receivers who (IMO) were likely not near as talented; Greer ended up with the 49ers (stuck behind stars Rice & Taylor) and had his best NFL season by far, when he got to play lots for Detroit; many years removed from his awesome CFL play for the Argos.

[argolio]

???

Brock was signed to a big NFL contract to be the Rams presumptive starter. Cause HC Robinson or some other Rams brass there knew of him and liked him; not because Brock's agent could line-up some Mickey Mouse NFL try-out tour like Nathan Rourke had to go thru just to get to an NFL TC. If you can't see the difference there, I don't know what to say.

Kramer & Salisbury were both in the NFL first and then went from a bit of CFL back to the NFL where they were already known. Had zero to do with their CFL play (and Kramer was useless with the Stamps anyways)

Wright was an outstanding CFL DB - he wasn't about to be handed an NFL starting job but he got there mostly cause of his more than one season of very good CFL play, and I doubt just because his agent knew somebody. The Browns were obviously clueless on Greer, but again he got down there after several seasons of superb CFL play - and that little detail is mostly meaningless to the NFL experts now.

"Cause HC Robinson or some other Rams brass knew of him first..." So you also don't know the details either. Found two things online, first one from a Rams fan site, second from bluebombers.com::

After the 1984 CFL season Brock, then 33, worked out for five NFL teams and had offers from four.

Brock signed with the Los Angeles Rams as a 33-year-old NFL rookie after his CFL days after a 20-minute workout for then-Rams head coach John Robinson

Felix Wright got to the Houston Oilers main camp after a successful free agent tryout, and after being released was then given a tryout by Hamilton. He was handed not just a roster spot but a starting job after only a few days with the team. And as I said earlier, Wright had workouts with four NFL teams before the Browns signed him. Mickey Mouse tryouts seemed to be as common in the 80s as they are now.

Not sure how the the Browns could have been impressed with Felix Wright's outstanding CFL play while at the same time being clueless on a guy in Terry Greer who often embarrassed Wright in the CFL.

You just don't get the point - which is, basically, many years ago (80s say) wayyyyyyyy more CFL players got signed to NFL try-outs, and made NFL rosters, after being very good CFL players (often several years of stand-out CFL play), compared to nowdays. Wether they had to have a try-out with more than one team at first was because, same as now, if they were not NFL drafted, that's how it could work.

And Brock was signed to be the Rams starter (like Moon was signed to be the Oilers starter); your attempts to look up some sort of proof otherwise is Ok, but i was around back then following both the CFL & NFL.

As far as Greer, I doubt it was the same Browns' defensive specialty coaches who saw how good Felix Wright was, who decided Greer was not that good - they, like a lot of football coaches do with some players, missed the boat big-time on his talent, and played receivers who (IMO) were likely not near as talented; Greer ended up with the 49ers (stuck behind stars Rice & Taylor) and had his best NFL season by far, when he got to play lots for Detroit; many years removed from his awesome CFL play for the Argos.

I've already said Moon was a clear exception that had almost everything to do with racism, and it could be argued Brock was a partial exception (though he still had to go through a bunch of workouts), but I see no evidence that the path of CFL players going south in the 80s in general was much different to today. As for more players trying then, I remember it being the same half-dozen to dozen it is now.

[OV Argo]

Ok, so i started out by pointing out the Ticats significant losses to the NFL after the 84 season: Brock, Wright, Johnson.

So to look further at that CFL/NFL period (say 85 - 89, and only 8 CFL teams in this period with the Als gone) - I'll make a (partial) list of star CFL players who went on to NFL opportunity (not just failed try-outs, but actually making an NFL roster and dressing, playing or getting serious starting/playing time):

RB - Willard Reaves, Gill Fenerty; receiver/returners - Terry Greer, Merv Fernandez, Chris Woods, Gizmo, Keith Baker; D-Line - Ty Jones, Earl Wilson (Argos); DBs - Mel Jenkins, Bennie Thompson, Carl Brazley, Roy Bennett, James Jefferson; kickers - Hank Illesic, Dean Dorsey, Jerry Kauric

So now, in comparison, you make a list of star CFL players who in the past 5 CFL seasons or so (say 2018 - 23 (no 2020 CFL season), who have went on to significant NFL opportunity and made rosters there (in a time of more NFL teams with larger rosters). I'll give you a bit of a head start: Alex Singleton (3rd in the entire NFL in combined defensive tackles over the past 3 seasons till he got injured this year); James Vaughters (Stamps to NFL and back to Stamps this year); Dee Alford (star Bomber DB now a starter for the Falcons); might be a couple more ...

Then ask yourself - why the big discrepancy? Surely if the opportunities are the same as always as you claim ... ?

[RichK]

It is true that not as many CFLers are getting NFL looks as they did before, and I think it is because more players are coming out of college more pro-ready than ever before, which is because there is so much more money in college ball now than ever before.

So as an NFL personnel genius, why go with the older ex-CFLers who were probably tainted by that inferior CFL coaching and training when you can grab a younger blue chip near-pro-ready phenom?