Game Thread - Ottawa Redblacks vs. Toronto Argonauts - Saturday August 9 @ 3:00 pm

[paulwoods13]

In short, I don’t think Monson would hav made a difference

Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know. But it's at least possible that having a DC in place by January might have helped.

[ARGO57]

The Monson situation was a head scratcher, by all accounts he had all but agreed to join the team but couldn’t come to financial terms, I wonder what Eiben thought about being plan B as DC?
I believe the Argos lost 7 of 12 defensive starters from last years Grey Cup team which is almost impossible to recover from.

Not just Plan B but Plan B/C since he was again required to be a co-DC.

It's worth noting that last year, the Argos lost quite a few starters from the defence that had helped them go 16-2 in 2023: Barlow, Hendrix, Peters and Pickett (plus Muamba who didn't play any games in 2023). They survived those losses as well as the later release of Oakman. But so many losses over two years was too many, it seems.

For sure, the 2023 roster was deep with elite talent and withstood the exodus heading into the 2024 season.
That talent level was stripped bare heading into 2025 and it sure shows.
It will be interesting to see where things go if the team fails to qualify (a distinct probability) for the playoffs.

[paulwoods13]

Ryan Dinwiddie with an honest assessment of his team right now, have to appreciate the honesty but some of the blame also lands on him and his coaching staff.
Accountability starts when you look in the mirror.

https://3downnation.com/2025/08/10/weve ... to-ottawa/

Am I the only one who finds it odd how Dinwiddie talks smack about his team, but then does little about it? Weeks ago he made a "someone's going home" threat, and the only player who paid a price was a backup d-lineman (Hergott) who got demoted to the PR. Who are these "pretenders who like to talk a big game, and don't show up on game day"? And what's being done about them? One might almost think the coach is trying to deflect blame away from himself and/or his fellow coaches.

Calver and Laborn have been cut. Problems solved!

[ArgoRavi]

The Monson situation was a head scratcher, by all accounts he had all but agreed to join the team but couldn’t come to financial terms, I wonder what Eiben thought about being plan B as DC?
I believe the Argos lost 7 of 12 defensive starters from last years Grey Cup team which is almost impossible to recover from.

Not just Plan B but Plan B/C since he was again required to be a co-DC.

It's worth noting that last year, the Argos lost quite a few starters from the defence that had helped them go 16-2 in 2023: Barlow, Hendrix, Peters and Pickett (plus Muamba who didn't play any games in 2023). They survived those losses as well as the later release of Oakman. But so many losses over two years was too many, it seems.

For sure, the 2023 roster was deep with elite talent and withstood the exodus heading into the 2024 season.
That talent level was stripped bare heading into 2025 and it sure shows.
It will be interesting to see where things go if the team fails to qualify (a distinct probability) for the playoffs.

The 2023 Argos were the deepest team I have seen in my five decades of watching this league. The depth on that team was unbelievable. It was chipped away at last year but they still had more than enough to win a Grey Cup. They probably thought they could withstand more losses this year but it has simply been too much.

In some ways, I am reminded of 1985. The 1983 Argos were outstanding and the 1984 team was good, but not quite as good. Bob O'Billovich always felt like he could find better players than what he already had but that attitude gradually got them into trouble in 1985, especially when they were without their starting QB for most of that season. They ended up making too many changes. They bottomed out at a 6-10 non-playoff season before rebounding over the following three seasons.

[ARGO57]

Not just Plan B but Plan B/C since he was again required to be a co-DC.

It's worth noting that last year, the Argos lost quite a few starters from the defence that had helped them go 16-2 in 2023: Barlow, Hendrix, Peters and Pickett (plus Muamba who didn't play any games in 2023). They survived those losses as well as the later release of Oakman. But so many losses over two years was too many, it seems.

For sure, the 2023 roster was deep with elite talent and withstood the exodus heading into the 2024 season.
That talent level was stripped bare heading into 2025 and it sure shows.
It will be interesting to see where things go if the team fails to qualify (a distinct probability) for the playoffs.

The 2023 Argos were the deepest team I have seen in my five decades of watching this league. The depth on that team was unbelievable. It was chipped away at last year but they still had more than enough to win a Grey Cup. They probably thought they could withstand more losses this year but it has simply been too much.

In some ways, I am reminded of 1985. The 1983 Argos were outstanding and the 1984 team was good, but not quite as good. Bob O'Billovich always felt like he could find better players than what he already had but that attitude gradually got them into trouble in 1985, especially when they were without their starting QB for most of that season. They ended up making too many changes. They bottomed out at a 6-10 non-playoff season before rebounding over the following three seasons.

The other thing is the team chemistry is altered which often has a detrimental effect on their performance.

[Unplayable]

I think the context for the offence is important.

For example, this last game through most of the second quarter, it was 2 and out and the defence did not get a break resulting in 15 or 16 unasnswered points and Ottawa right back in the game. And what about the last few minutes of those games when they scored "adequate points"? The Argos could not sustain drives to eat away at the clock. in the last few minutes. Just look at how Ottawa ground their way down the field in the last couple of minutes of this last game.

So overall the offence is adequate to good until the last few minues.

[paulwoods13]

I think the context for the offence is important.

For example, this last game through most of the second quarter, it was 2 and out and the defence did not get a break resulting in 15 or 16 unasnswered points and Ottawa right back in the game. And what about the last few minutes of those games when they scored "adequate points"? The Argos could not sustain drives to eat away at the clock. in the last few minutes. Just look at how Ottawa ground their way down the field in the last couple of minutes of this last game.

So overall the offence is adequate to good until the last few minues.

Here's some additional context. The Argos are on pace to score 514 points, which would equal their league-leading total from last season. Without looking up the detailed stats, my sense is that they are on pace for fewer defensive and special-teams TDs than they had last year, so more production from the offence. IMO offence -- despite major flaws on the o-line and the running game -- is fifth on the list of problems (behind defence, special teams, coaching and recruitment/personnel management, not necessarily in that order).

[RB957]

To me, the problems with our special teams is the most disheartening, because big plays against us on punts and kick-offs have been soul crushing because they completely change the tempo and sometimes the outcome of the game. Some examples: We fight back to tie the game at home against the Riders only to lose the game on the next play by giving up a kickoff return TD. We score a defensive touchdown against Winnipeg in Winnipeg only to give them a TD right back on the ensuing kickoff. And finally, at the Ottawa game on Saturday, I wasn't even back in my seat to start the second half to find that we gave up a monster return leading to a quick TD. Those are just three examples. There are more.

Other teams are experiencing problems with their O-lines, especially Edmonton and B.C., and other teams have suspect defences at times, in particular B.C., and other teams may be having issues with their running games at times, but in my opinion it is the poor play of our special teams that has been the dagger in the heart for the Argos this season. Not only are we not stopping other teams, we have not had many explosive plays with our returners.

[AngeloV]

To me, the problems with our special teams is the most disheartening, because big plays against us on punts and kick-offs have been soul crushing because they completely change the tempo and sometimes the outcome of the game. Some examples: We fight back to tie the game at home against the Riders only to lose the game on the next play by giving up a kickoff return TD. We score a defensive touchdown against Winnipeg in Winnipeg only to give them a TD right back on the ensuing kickoff. And finally, at the Ottawa game on Saturday, I wasn't even back in my seat to start the second half to find that we gave up a monster return leading to a quick TD. Those are just three examples. There are more.

Other teams are experiencing problems with their O-lines, especially Edmonton and B.C., and other teams have suspect defences at times, in particular B.C., and other teams may be having issues with their running games at times, but in my opinion it is the poor play of our special teams that has been the dagger in the heart for the Argos this season. Not only are we not stopping other teams, we have not had many explosive plays with our returners.

This is a bang on assessment.

[ArgoRavi]

To me, the problems with our special teams is the most disheartening, because big plays against us on punts and kick-offs have been soul crushing because they completely change the tempo and sometimes the outcome of the game. Some examples: We fight back to tie the game at home against the Riders only to lose the game on the next play by giving up a kickoff return TD. We score a defensive touchdown against Winnipeg in Winnipeg only to give them a TD right back on the ensuing kickoff. And finally, at the Ottawa game on Saturday, I wasn't even back in my seat to start the second half to find that we gave up a monster return leading to a quick TD. Those are just three examples. There are more.

Other teams are experiencing problems with their O-lines, especially Edmonton and B.C., and other teams have suspect defences at times, in particular B.C., and other teams may be having issues with their running games at times, but in my opinion it is the poor play of our special teams that has been the dagger in the heart for the Argos this season. Not only are we not stopping other teams, we have not had many explosive plays with our returners.

This is a bang on assessment.

I would suggest that special teams alone have cost the Argos 2-3 wins this season.