Game Thread: Toronto Argonauts @ Hamilton Tiger-Cats

[AngeloV]

Looking forward to getting Chad Kelly back as the Argonauts starting QB.

You and me both. And I’m sure Pinball and the coaching staff.

Thanks for hosting the game at your home last night, always a blast getting together with you and the gang!!

Our biggest get together yet. Other than the result it was a great night.

[OV Argo]

It's too bad HC RD - who has been a very good CFL offensive coach & play-caller, IMO - does not have the know-how or confidence to consistently game plan for a QB like Dukes' skill-set. We did see it vs. the Als just the past game - lots of diverse ground game, working all 3 RBs and then less pressure on Dukes to make lots of reads and tough throws; and Dukes' mobility and scrambling is taken advantage of for gaining yardage or finding open receivers. And this type of offence does open up the D to some deep pass shots when they are there. The RedBlacks offensive "thinkers" did not grasp this with Crum either, however.

Instead, it's going to be deferring to standard CFL offence (mostly pass, lotsa dink & dunk), or, with a gun for an arm QB like Kelly, a superior CFL passing offence featuring plenty of intermediate and deep passes. Dukes does not have the arm strength or reads confidence to run that offence, so why think he can ? And sorry, Arbuckle is just not the answer there either - not even close, as shown by his past starts with Ottawa (just brutal at times) - he will end up being picked or missing targets galore, resulting in 2 and outs galore. He is not a CFL starting QB and proved it over and over again.

I guess it's Kelly to the rescue or hope the D and J. Grant can win the games ?

[kellynjk]

The defence played quite well IMO. Hamilton’s offence has been pretty good this year and the D held them to 1 TD drive (blocked punt 11 yard TD drive is not on them)

It’s clear the only reason the Argos lost was because they didn’t have a QB that could do what every other team has done to Hamilton so far. Attack their weak secondary down field. I have been on team Dukes. Met him and really like him. But he’s not ready to start this many games in a row. The book is out on him. Play your secondary tight and dare him to throw down field.

I am still irked by Litre grabbing and tearing off Grant’s hair. I know it’s legal but he targeted the hair and it was intentional. A piece of shit play by a marginal football player,

Duke seems like a nice kid and he has tried his best to go out and win games. But it's alot of pressure to put on him and I agree he doesn't have the variety and experience in his game yet to start so many games. Plus I've noticed that often he stands in the pocket for a long time looking for receivers etc. but he needs to get rid of the ball quicker as it gets him in alot of trouble. And he seems to lack the confidence to throw the long ball, so other teams know what to expect from him.

I think Litre grabbing and tearing off Grant's hair should be a penalty. Duane Ford was saying that you can't pull down a player by the collar of their jerseys as it would be too easy to injure them (jolting their necks and heads) and the same risk comes from pulling someone down by the hair. Plus I cringe when I see it as I can't imagine how much it hurts.

[argolio]

Dukes seemed to look off his first read way too much and use his legs to buy time. Unless that leads to big plays, you're putting too much pressure on the o-line and giving the other team's pass rush more time. It was like he was always looking for a perfect play.

Maybe the Rider game put the fear of throwing interceptions into him.

[TrueBlueGuy]

Dukes seemed to look off his first read way too much and use his legs to buy time. Unless that leads to big plays, you're putting too much pressure on the o-line and giving the other team's pass rush more time. It was like he was always looking for a perfect play.

Maybe the Rider game put the fear of throwing interceptions into him.

yes it did impact him, I agree, or else it impacted the coaches to tell Dukes to stick with short throws, and he is doing what his coaches told him. As for Arbuckle, we all have seen his past play, BUT optimistically I think he has always been behind some below-average O-lines, and our O-line is the best one we have seen for some time (equal to 2023) so maybe that's what will allow Arbuckle to really show what he can do.

[OV Argo]

Dukes seemed to look off his first read way too much and use his legs to buy time. Unless that leads to big plays, you're putting too much pressure on the o-line and giving the other team's pass rush more time. It was like he was always looking for a perfect play.

Maybe the Rider game put the fear of throwing interceptions into him.

yes it did impact him, I agree, or else it impacted the coaches to tell Dukes to stick with short throws, and he is doing what his coaches told him. As for Arbuckle, we all have seen his past play, BUT optimistically I think he has always been behind some below-average O-lines, and our O-line is the best one we have seen for some time (equal to 2023) so maybe that's what will allow Arbuckle to really show what he can do.

Good O-line for sure; MacKellar has some real problems in pass protection at times though (and he was an all-star OT in college ball who has been moved inside to guard with the Argos); might be time to try somebody else there IMO if they insist on going with a pass heavy offence.

[ARGOFanIan]

Shout out to David of the ARGO fan club for organizing meet up at Endzone... and Bus ride to stadium. Was a nice event ... hope we can do again.

Really like the walking / viewing area's at Tim Hortons field. Excellent place to watch football... IMO.

[Will]

Dukes seemed to look off his first read way too much and use his legs to buy time. Unless that leads to big plays, you're putting too much pressure on the o-line and giving the other team's pass rush more time. It was like he was always looking for a perfect play.

Maybe the Rider game put the fear of throwing interceptions into him.

yes it did impact him, I agree, or else it impacted the coaches to tell Dukes to stick with short throws, and he is doing what his coaches told him. As for Arbuckle, we all have seen his past play, BUT optimistically I think he has always been behind some below-average O-lines, and our O-line is the best one we have seen for some time (equal to 2023) so maybe that's what will allow Arbuckle to really show what he can do.

Good O-line for sure; MacKellar has some real problems in pass protection at times though (and he was an all-star OT in college ball who has been moved inside to guard with the Argos); might be time to try somebody else there IMO if they insist on going with a pass heavy offence.

It would be nice to know what Ciraco's progress is from his injury. When Ciraco returns, they can slide Nicastro back to RG, but as long as Ciraco ins on the shelf then they will start MacKellar at RG.

[Will]

It's too bad HC RD - who has been a very good CFL offensive coach & play-caller, IMO - does not have the know-how or confidence to consistently game plan for a QB like Dukes' skill-set. We did see it vs. the Als just the past game - lots of diverse ground game, working all 3 RBs and then less pressure on Dukes to make lots of reads and tough throws; and Dukes' mobility and scrambling is taken advantage of for gaining yardage or finding open receivers. And this type of offence does open up the D to some deep pass shots when they are there. The RedBlacks offensive "thinkers" did not grasp this with Crum either, however.

Instead, it's going to be deferring to standard CFL offence (mostly pass, lotsa dink & dunk), or, with a gun for an arm QB like Kelly, a superior CFL passing offence featuring plenty of intermediate and deep passes. Dukes does not have the arm strength or reads confidence to run that offence, so why think he can ? And sorry, Arbuckle is just not the answer there either - not even close, as shown by his past starts with Ottawa (just brutal at times) - he will end up being picked or missing targets galore, resulting in 2 and outs galore. He is not a CFL starting QB and proved it over and over again.

I guess it's Kelly to the rescue or hope the D and J. Grant can win the games ?

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but at this point, I'm willing to find out that he isn't the answer, because Dukes for sure isn't right now.

[RB957]

Sloppy game by the Double Blue... but I am not ready to pull the fire alarm just yet.

Hamilton HAD to win this game, and did barely enough to do so. We gave up 14 points on turnovers, but the blocked punt was due to Sopik losing his footing, which can happen. Hamilton's only offensive TD was aided by some poor tackling on the part of our D.

So even with the negatives, it was a game we could have won. And for all of the challenges Argos may be facing, they are a much better team than Hamilton, IMO.

As for the comments on quarterbacking.... Dukes has great mobility, which is a huge asset, but not a strong arm, so there is no real threat of him aggresively pushing the ball down the field. I think teams have figured that out. And is it just me, but does he look a bit more "skittish" in the pocket? Arbuckle looked great filling in, but how much of that was due to Hamilton's D going into sleeper mode, a bit. He does release the ball well, has a stronger arm, and more experience. Having said all that, I think Dinwiddie may start Dukes on Saturday, but I see a QB change happening much sooner if the offence isn't moving the ball.